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Hey, you're listening to Cut for Time, a podcast from Faith Church located on the north side of Indianapolis.  My name is Claire Kingsley.  And I'm Dan Breitwieser. Each week, one of us will sit down with the person who gave Sunday's sermon to discuss their message.  Cut for Time is a look behind the scenes of sermon preparation,  and they'll share with us a few things that we didn't hear from the sermon on Sunday. Thanks for listening. 17 Before we can even talk You clearly your voice. It wasn't what you were looking for, I'm sure on Sunday morning you so how are you feeling? First of all, and what's it like to try to, you know, give a 30 to 40 minute sermon twice in a morning when you probably should be in bed? It's sad. Well, as I said when I was preaching, I I sounded worse than I felt, but my voice definitely hurt. And that to that for those of the people listening who might not be familiar with our church, we two services, I had to do it twice.  Um,  and I felt much better the second time, my voice probably had warmed up a little bit.  Also,  um, Matt with him who's leading worship gave me a magical lozenge that singers use when their voices get in that shape. And that gave me a little bit more of my range back.  Um,  Kendra told me that, uh, is I have a,  um, I'm very gregarious, right? And I, I put a lot of energy into speaking.  Um,  and she said, well, you, God didn't allow you to go on stage in your own persona. Like, you know, putting out your own,  you know, your own persona, that'll get into the, if you haven't heard the sermon that ties into the theme of it. I'm like, that was good. That was really good. Yup. That  I had to just go and especially first hour, I spoke very softly in a low register  and told the sound booth, you're going to have to make the microphone do the work for me because I have no volume. Yeah,  but it was good. Yeah, I think  it was  still a wonderful and powerful message and has a lot of people thinking about it. So  let's walk into that and think through  these verses and just the sermon outline that you presented, whether people could hear it really well or better on stage now or not as well at the first hour.  Well, quick summary of it.  What I noticed in this, and this is kind of a principle of exegetical breaching, right? It's not just walking through the text, but also  what is this text here to do? And so um one of my key points was that Paul is reminding his readers of who they are.  So  it's not as much of an imperative like go do these things,  but this is who you are, so you should behave differently.  And  yeah. So 17 through 19 were kind of the bad example  of  the Gentiles and how they, uh the Gentile world, how they try to connect with the divine. Okay. uh Primarily through their feelings, desires, uh chasing after sensuality is the particular one that he points out. So then in verse 20 is this big pivot. That's not the way you learned Christ. a uh key interpretation  here is that he is speaking of how They came to know Christ, learning Christ, kind of that initial, salmific life transforming realization of who Christ is. So then based on that, if that's how you got to know Christ, then what were you taught in him? you've got, no, I've got the scripture in front of me, which I'm sure a lot of podcast listeners aren't, uh,  there's a,  uh, assuming that you have been, I've heard about him. We're taught in him. And then you've got this parenthetical as the truth as a Jesus. And then there's a couple of infinitives. So we're taught in him, verse 22, to  put off your old self, and then a parenthetical, to be renewed in the spirit of your minds and to put on the new self. So you were taught in him to do three things. To put off your old self, to be renewed in the spirit of your mind and to put on your new self.  Self being the word for man. So put off the old Adam, the new Adam, the new Christ,  or Christ as the second Adam. I'm rambling. There, there's your summary.   Well, but it was,  you started with the  learn Christ and um what that leads to. um And I was intrigued thinking through um what Paul would say to people in our own culture today. I think it's very common for people to sort of have the thought of,  you know, at the core, you know, we're good inside, you know, if we could just get to that. inner self that, you know, there's a lot of bad things we do, but, you know, I'm good on the inside. I, know, as a reporter who's covered a lot of people who have been killed, whether by accident or homicide, I can tell you I never ever talked to a relative of someone who's didn't say this was like a wonderful person who would give you the shirt off their back. mean, that is we say that about every single person we ever meet or know, regardless of the truth of that. mean, there's that, just the way we see people, we have that, you know, they're good on the inside. And I don't know that Paul would quite agree with  that assessment of humankind. Yeah, think we, two things that I think Paul would say to uh modern, you know, the modern West. One, just like you've alluded to,  we're not inherently good.  I do think that humans have an inherent capacity to do good. um I mean, yeah, to do good things in certain circumstances, but ah under  pressure,  we will naturally opt for ourselves and seek self, right? So we are not inherently good, but... everybody in  different capacities to do some good things, I would say. And I think uh the other thing would be,  we didn't really get into very much of the sermon, but I think it's definitely a part of this text as well, especially talking about putting off and putting on  is our individualism.  And when we think about the way that you learned Christ, for example, you know, how did you come to be saved? We think entirely individualistically  about me,  my personal struggle, my personal sin, and then my personal relationship with Jesus Christ.  And for Paul, you know, he's clearly thinking about, um, putting off the old Adam, putting off a tunic that, that  marks you as belonging to a  rebel people. uh it's not just who you were, but it's who you belonged to, belonged to Adam. And you are a part  of,  uh,  rebel humanity, right? And then to not just put on Christ like, me, myself, and then I'm going to look just like Jesus individually, but that you would join yourself to the church, join yourself into Christ's body,  be united with him and be found  as a part of that corporate, not just individualistically  granted salvation. Yeah. I think, yes, and  you see so much  individual examples of people saying, well, I'm about ready to quit church and you know, just get to Jesus. And  I just want to say,  I'm sorry that's been your experience, but, you know, part of Jesus is the church and the body and being connected to that. isn't that, you know, the colonial and a lone ranger Christian, you know, that uh you need to be connected to others to really have the full Christian experience and fully experience  Jesus as part of the body. Well, Jesus looks at his bride. Um, and loves her, right?  Uh,  but knows her laws  and seeks to purify, cleanse, and make her beautiful.  And so then if we are  to love as Jesus loves, well, we not want to do the same thing, right? To see the, the church, see that it  has  laws, but then want to make her beautiful. for her bridegroom. Yeah, that's a...  Wouldn't it be just easier if it was just pretty... Just snap your fingers and make that happen, but that's obviously not an easy process. The other thing,  I was very intrigued, um your description  of the significance  of the taking off the... the tunic, the toga, I don't know if that's right or not, that's, I picture everybody walking around in togas and so that the connection with what I just read as putting on, put off your old self, put on your new self doesn't have the same cultural significance and understanding for me as it may have had for people back then. And that was a new thoughts. I'd love to. to explore that a little bit more and, you know,  yeah,  that was new. So um what does Paul mean by that? um Well, I mean, I don't know that there's anything more deeply theological other than just the metaphor may have been  more poignant for his readers or just more easy to grasp for his readers, but it's not hard for us to get.  I mean,  I grew up  not very well off. Uh, my parents didn't did everything that they could, but I, you know, I wore hand-me-down clothes. I never had anything named brand. I mean, public school is ruthless, right? I can remember middle school and high school and I didn't have gap or guess. I didn't have what were some of the other brands back then. I did a car. I wanted a starter jacket. Yeah. That's how it was. Yeah. And there were vans shoes and then there were air walks. Do you remember that? The air was like the knockoff vans. I had air walks. Um, so we, we still have some of that today  and, um, but I think it's easier to  be a chameleon in today's  society to kind of show  or, you know, dress a part that maybe you, you aren't, that's not illegal.  Uh, nobody would, would shun you for doing that. It's kind of expected that you would, but you, you could not, if you were not actually royalty and you put purple cloth on yourself in the Roman empire, you were in trouble. Um, I mean, I'm not a historian, but this, I've read this in a  couple of different places that yeah, there, were some, whether they were laws or just social norms that were not broken. Uh, you signified your status and to your clothes. And so that metaphor that Paul uses here would have just been that much more powerful for the original audience. But  I tried to just a little bit to try and get us back into that mindset. And I still think we can see it. I think that. you know, whether you want to think about uniforms, you know, there's still a lot of people whose clothing clearly demarks who they are. uh But by and large, we can we can tell a blue collar from a white collar person, you know, based on how they dress, what they wear, that kind of stuff. But if you're walking out and, you know, with the doctor's coat on after the coding ceremony, you're the nurses pinning ceremony, or I'm thinking even just, you know, graduating from high school or college where you  bring the tassel from, and I couldn't tell you which side to which because I've only done it when I graduated. I don't remember these things. But in terms of there's a big deal to bring you over from one side to the other, that does have that meaning. I think that's kind what you're getting to in terms of what that looked like when you're walking down the street. Yeah. And it is, I do know this, it is illegal to impersonate a police officer. If you put on a police uniform, maybe for trick or treating, you'll be fine. But if you try to use that, that's illegal. I'm not sure what the rules are, but... I get the length of white coat. I'm glad you mentioned that. I should have thought about that for the sermon. The length of your white coat when you're in a hospital says something about what you are, who you are. think residents only have a certain length and then actual doctors have a different length. So it would be possibly against some rules, but definitely taboo if you were not a doctor, but you walked in, they were in a white cloak. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. gave off a persona. Yeah. And I just think that's a powerful way to think through. you know, you have that cloak on you, then  you are to act like it, you know, you are  to be part of that. you know, job time, I think of maybe, you we're called to be ambassadors. So you're called to be the ambassador. Like you are, you are a Christian. You are called to that higher calling. I keep using the same word over and over again, but you're called to that position. And so your job is to be an ambassador and to to share the good news and to do those kinds of things. Because, know, but you know what? You use the word ambassador. And in today's you're right. That is New Testament language. But that has a That's a very elite status. mean, if I were called to be the ambassador of the United States to any other country, that's pretty sweet gig actually, right?  What Paul introduces himself in so many of his letters is a servant of Christ Jesus, right? That we are bond servants. We are not your own. You were bought at a price. uh So that to me, that really, as I was studying this and kind of letting it do its work on my own heart, right? Do I put forth...  but an image that I'm a servant. Yeah. Yeah. that's, ah and yeah, thinking, yeah, giving. I that was, I think really what you're talking about in terms of  as Christians today, you know,  do we give up our own rights? Are we self-seeking,  you know, with that? yeah, thanks for that conversation.  All right. So let's, you know, it is cut for time. And so, you know, what, what, what Nick, did we have to actually cut for time? uh in your sermon  and these verses of chapter four? Well, as anyone, I told everybody at the beginning of sermon, get your Bibles open. You're going to be looking at this. We're going look at every verse. But  I wondered if anyone was going to call me on it. I completely skipped verse 23.  No. It's the second of the three infinitives that he gives. you  learned in Jesus to put off your old self, to be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and then to put on the new self.  I cut for time to be renewed in the spirit of your minds. It is,  uh, well, I think it would take a lot of study  and, know, to understand exactly what he's talking about there,  or,  or it's pretty simple  to  think differently. But one of the things that stood out to me  and,  and the interest of being cut for time, I didn't really go. real deep into this, but I know spirit is Numa, right? Which is just like a life force. And so I  did a little bit of mostly  just musing around whether that's connected also to, you know, Adam. He was nothing but a pile of dust until God breathed into his nostrils. And so to say you're to be renewed in the breath, you know, that life giving force in your mind.  I think  it's a new life, just like he put off this. m old Adam that is destined to die, put on the new Christ that lives forever. And somewhere inside of there is also your way of thinking, you know, to be made new by... spirit in your mind.  And I did not unpack that. I didn't turn that into any kind of application. I just left it alone and focused in on the  clothing metaphor. Okay. Would you have any practical um tips or um points to ponder or think through when we're thinking about, you know, how do we renew the spirit of our minds to put on the new self,  you know, to to try to follow that likeness of God and true righteousness and holiness. Would you have any practical things to potentially live us with  as we're thinking through this and working through it for ourselves? Well, yeah. So  to go back to that, renewed in the spirit of your mind, I do think that that is a contrast to what he talked about in the first half of it,  which is he's talking about the Gentiles, he says,  in the futility of their month. So in... What's going on in their minds is emptiness. leads to nothing. It's not productive. Right. And so  you're kind of what we talked about at the beginning of this, right? That you're, you're, there's not, you're not naturally good. The thoughts that you naturally come up with are not,  uh, they're not naturally good. They're not, they're not the standard. Right. So  my tips would be to  distrust your intuitions,  um, until you've measure them up against Jesus. So study Jesus, know who he is, how he lived his life and what he calls us to. And then be plugged into the church, belong to the church. Not  like we said, it's not an individualistic call that  you and I, right? We sharpen one another. I could come to you and I could say, Hey, I'm struggling with this idea, how I'm going to interact in this situation, how I'm going to deal with this situation at work or with my wife or with my kids.  I'm thinking this.  What do you think? Because I don't trust my intuition inherently, right? Yes, we both have, you know, I have the Holy Spirit, but so do you. And so I'm gonna test that with the church, with fellow believers and be renewed in the spirit of my mind so that it's creating life and not just futility. I think it kind of goes to your talk about the callousness and you know, the... that you talked about, reading your sermon, you know, and that is a huge difference. And I think of people who  are ah callous in their hearts and callous in their minds  that,  you know, they do wrong things  and they don't even feel bad about it afterwards because they're just callous to it. They don't even realize. And so for us to  have soft hearts  and, you know,  soft minds probably is not the right thing.  Excuse me, the right  way of phrasing that, but soft hearts that are somewhat cut to the quick when we know we've sinned, when we've wronged somebody else and then hopefully go to that person and ask for forgiveness and try to make it right because our  hearts are not callous. They're not hearts of stone. They are hearts of uh flesh. Circumcised hearts. Yes, yes. And so  to let that spirit renew your mind and  continue to ask it to continue to be soft. mean,  you don't just get to us. You're not like, oh, I got a soft heart. I'm good to go.  That's right.  Yep. Now I'm a Christian. I can trust  all of my mind inherently. That's not quite how that works.  Our hearts are deceptive and  our minds can't be as well.  Yeah, that's good.  know, um, talked to a few people afterwards and they, I,  there's a lot of us thinking about just all the things you shared and, and, um, you know, how we can put into practice. So, um, very much appreciate, um, you bringing, uh, the word to us, Nick, again, on Sunday, um, voice 100 % or not. Um, I think it,  uh, you know, it was,  um, good, good things for us to think about. And, and, uh, again, thanks for, for joining us on this, uh, this episode and We'll see you next week. All right.  Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Cut for Time.  If you wish to submit questions to our pastors following Sunday's sermon,  you can email them to podcast at faithchurchindie.com  or  text them into our faith church texting number  and we'll do our best to cover them in next week's episode.  If this conversation blessed you in any way,  we encourage you to share it with others. We'll be back again next week.