Hey. You're listening to Cut for Time, a podcast from Faith Church located on the North Side Of Indianapolis. My name is Claire Kingsley. And I'm Dan Breitwieser. Each week, one of us will sit down with the person who gave Sunday's sermon to discuss their message.

Cut for Time is a look behind the scenes of sermon preparation, and they'll share with us a few things that we didn't hear from the sermon on Sunday. Thanks for listening. Welcome back. It's another episode of Cut for Time with, your, you know, fill in host here with the, you know, fill in creature. Right.

Man. Yeah. This is, you know, we really have gone to the, you know, the b team. You know, b team. Deep down the bench.

Deep down the bench. Yeah. Bustle, Brian Weiser, you know, we're we're just doing what we can. The closers. We're the closers.

That's what we are. So yeah. Well, we're, glad to, have such a wonderful bench of people who can preach, and, that includes, Joel Bussell. So, Joel, thanks for your, you know, joining and being you know, this is your first time ever on Cut for Time. Yeah.

I I feel a little strange. You know, I'm standing in the finance office on Cut for Time. I don't really know how how that happened, but I'm grateful and really humbled, and just even and, had great joy in getting to prepare and and worship with the congregation on Sunday. So, grateful. Yeah.

And I wanna talk a little bit about your background, another beat, after we talk about this sermon. But I just you know, I think there's a probably a lot of people who don't know you, your family as well. And so actually, you know what? Let's just do that now. So let's talk a little bit about you and kind of, you know, you kinda briefly touched on it on Sunday, but, you know, what, just a little bit of your biography, another good Yeah.

Yeah. They were let's see how many b words I can get into my biography. I you know, bustle is a big one there, but, just a quick history, you know, I come from a seven generation farm family East Of Indianapolis in the New Palestine Greenfield area, and, many of my family, still live there. You know, the joke is we're related over half the county, because we've been out there so long, but I'm the black sheep that moved to Indianapolis when I went to Butler University. And it was at Butler University, although I had grown up, with a really great theological background.

I came to know Lord through crew. And, yeah, just actually Ephesians one was the verse that was shared with me when I came to know the Lord, through my discipler there. But it was at Butler that I came to know my wife. She was leading a bible study in your sorority. I was leading bible study in my fraternity, and that was my end to get to know her.

So Shelby and I got to know each other, there. We graduated from Butler, and we went on staff with crew. And we were on staff with Crew in the Indy Metro Area for, you know, seven years. Actually, you know, Emily Nussbaum, she was our team lead. Doug Leatherman was there.

Well, both when I was a student and on staff. And while we were there, we had two wonderful kids, Graham and Joy. Graham, who's now 10 and Joy, who is now eight. Graham, is both of them are in Taekwondo, which makes me a little scared. I had to actually put some effort into wrestling than the other day because they're, they're they're, you know, getting a little too much for me.

But, after leaving staff with crew, I went into pastoral ministry and overseeing children's ministry and adult discipleship. Did that for a number of years in Indianapolis. I was on staff, working with volunteer teams and leaders at a church in Anderson for a little bit of time, and then was in the corporate world in leadership development and coaching, writing curriculum, before I started working in faith. And I started how I ended up at faith is I was coaching pastor Nathan. Pastor, Joey at the time asked me to coach pastor Nathan, and we've been attending faith for a bit.

And, they saw fit to bring me on. And so that's just a little biography, but we live just a few minutes south here at the church, and I can ride my bike to work, which is a real gift. So That's great. Well, I certainly appreciate the words you had to to share. What was it like to be back up, you know, at the pulpit preaching after a year?

Is it like getting back in the saddle again? Do you ever forget the the, saddle tours that come with it? Well, you know, I I I was a little bit tired on Sunday. You know, that bit you know, that might have been the equivalent of being saddle sore, but, actually, I I and I've said this. I just felt early a great peace and joy just because it has been such a big part of my past.

Something that's not been, it's something I enjoy doing. I love teaching and helping people take steps of growth. And so I just I just felt, a real peace and joy and energy, for a church in transition that really we need I need, the power of God as we go through this. So, it was fun. It was a lot of fun.

Alright. Well, let's let's chat about your, sermon. You know, we looked at Ephesians one fifteen through 23, and Mhmm. The title was Eyes Wide Open. So, just kinda give us a brief recap of of what you shared.

Yeah. Well, you know, I I believe that it is our understanding of, our proximity to, and our relationship with power that is what creates change in our life, whether for better or for the worse. And when we cozy up to the world's sin, the the world's power, the power of sin and power of Satan, we really, see these, fight flight or freeze tendencies where that makes us either bitter or burdened or bound up where we just can't function well. But I believe God calls us to cozy up and Paul did in the text that we God's the one that changes our hearts. He enlightens our hearts and so we need to kind of, cozy up next to his power, which is, you know, three parts.

It is, the hope of his calling, the immeasurable riches of being his inheritance, and then, the greatness of his power towards those who believe. And that as we kind of get that understanding of proximity to and ultimately seek the relationship with the god of the universe who possesses that power, that that he will grant, that request of enlightening our hearts and to calling us further up and further in and deeper relationship with him. So, that's a high level, although, you know, there's a whole half of the passage we hardly got to touch. That was the that was the the bulk of, Sundays. I think the thing that, you know, you kinda the the fight, flight, or freeze, you know, I see that a lot of secular context.

Yep. But, you know, your argument here would be this is also a a scriptural. I mean, this is this is how god how god designed this. And then you sort of have changed the words of some of that. But is that do did I Yeah.

Correct? Well, and it's it's I actually love seeing how science is proving what God has been saying from the beginning of time, and I've gone back and started my master's at the John Townsend Institute where they really seek to integrate theology and leading, you know, psychology and neuroscience. Obviously, that's rooted in God's word first. That's the first lens, but but yeah, I think we do see, when we come up against power, and you know, whether it's a powerful strong person or a, you know, intimidating, person or someone with, you know, political power, we kinda all change, you know, we we we stand up straight. We, we change our behavior especially if that one that person is exercising there.

Our boss exercises power over us. It's kind of a negative motivator, and we often kinda just have this visceral, human response in the face of kind of scary power, and that's we fight, we, you know, run away or we freeze up, and that's something every human being has a propensity towards. And I believe that we we kinda see that not explicitly in the scriptures, but that knowing that that's how God has wired every human being, we can kinda say, wow, God. Okay. That makes sense.

But when we cozy up next to him, we get a little bit different response, although it's an overwhelming awe, scary power. What it does is it disarms us and it gives us life. It's kind of a appropriate authority, and I think juxtaposing those two helps us diagnose our heart easier, but also normalize, and even maybe give us some triggers of when we might be cozing up to the wrong power based on the physical, psychological, emotional symptoms we have in our life. Obviously, God's word trunks anything that we would learn about these things, but I do think we have something to learn about God as we kinda go the other direction of what, what, good psychology neuroscience is teaching us. Well, I think of this in my own life in terms of, you know, being a journalist.

And, there were times I did, you know, not very often, but there are times where it was, you know, I was going into a a hot school board meeting, and I was confronting somebody, or I was confronting the mayor, or I was con confronting the Yeah. This house representative about some of his statements and things like that. And so I mean, in some ways, I was and I saw it as, like, I'm doing it on behalf of Right. The viewers who can't do that. You know, and doing those types of stories for justice for other people, was, you know, one of my primary, you know, motivating factors of loving my job Yeah.

Is I was working on the on their behalf to to do that. And another part of that was but I was, you know, I was working on behalf of that station, and I had the power of that station. Yeah. The name of that station, the, you know, and the power that comes with the first amendment to to do Yeah. Things and not have to be scared of, at least in this country, with a few exceptions, you know, of what what that will do.

I'm not gonna be put in prison for that. Like, I'm not you know, I have the rights. I have the power. I mean, in some ways, I'm like, I'm I'm armed with the constitution. And I think, you know, as I put on my backpack, you know, and I'm, you know, putting on a mic back somebody and I think is that kind of what you mean in terms of if we have the power of God with us that it sort of changes the viewpoint.

Like, I don't have to I'm not speaking on my own behalf, but I can, you know, have that power behind me as I'm confronting somebody. You're talking someone asking hard questions. I think you should have gave the sermon because I think that's an excellent, kind of just word picture there of of, you are were deputized on behalf of a power that was larger than yours. A human power, you know, an incomplete power, you know, but a power nonetheless that emboldened you not to still I mean, you're probably a little sweaty under the underarm, you know, as you go into do those things. Definitely.

But there was a a backstop of power, that you rested in, and I think that captures the present power that of the three types of power we talked about. You know, the the hope of our calling is a past power, you know, the hope of our inheritance is a future power, but the immeasurable greatness of God's power is that present power that makes us gritty. And actually a few folks had asked me, you know, what did that where that gritty word come from? And I think that's you kinda touched on that. We we I'd said that, you know, there's two pieces of the present power.

There's the power to protect, and then there's the power to, kind of indwell or empower us to go out as agents into the world to do, what God has called us to do with kind of a confidence, but also a grittiness that, you know, I I need to do this. People need me to do this. I have God's power. I can do this, and what could I do if I kinda went in with that gritty, kinda earthy, I've got this power that I need to steward well, and I can do it. Could could change our posture towards a lot of the things we we, we face, daily.

Obviously, it's God's holy spirit that does that, but we us kinda asking, seeking, knocking for that, is what I think, allows us to cultivate it more in our lives. So Yeah. I I think that the power I was thinking too in terms of just the having that overall view of that power, that yeah. That, you know, it's this momentary isolated small thing. But if you go back up 10,000 feet and or see, you know, the 10,000 year view of what power is, then that little thing is is pretty insignificant.

Right? I mean, that's what's that that's that grittiness, like, I'm I'm gonna hold on because I know, you know, that a day is dawning, you know, that it Yeah. Night's gonna be going away, at some point soon. Well, there there's even a practical piece of that that comes from kind of the leadership coaching, world is if you kinda if you're in a picture yourself where you are in your office, you know, in the car wherever you are, whatever you're facing and access, what am I thinking, feeling about those things? But then even zoom up a 100 feet.

What all could you see? You'd see, you know, maybe a 100 other people. What all are they facing? You zoom up even higher, you know, you see all of, you know, broader pull or Nora or whatever it is, and you go even higher, and you begin to kind of gain a larger perspective. It's a it's a it's a fun little exercise that allows you to see, how small we are, but also how important, we are.

But I think if you add that if you kinda zoom out from a, kind of the completeness of God's, redemptive story. Where are we at in that story? How do if I zoom up a little bit, you know, all these people around me are going through this, God's redemptive story that's in his hand, but it's hard. And we zoom up and we can kinda see the past of God's redemptive power that's been accomplished, and we go, oh, that feels good. That's a past power.

And if we zoom up and we can kinda look to the future as much as God has given us clarity in his word of what that future inheritance will look like, we kinda start to we we lose ourself in the power of God, and then we if we kinda zoom, you know, or shoot back down, to our present situation, it kinda fuels us, to to, yeah, have a more gritty, maybe even more alive power. Yeah. That's great. And then let's at the very end, we just talked about and I really like this, the sort of your diagnosing the heart, you know, and and and sort of the action steps, you know, from that in terms of looking at yourself, thinking through how do I where's my default? You know, where where where you know, if you're walking down a a nice path, you know, where's my default getting off the the the beaten path with that in terms of, you know, bitterness, fear?

Mhmm. Oh, you are going for more bees. I guess that's Yeah. Yeah. That is their thing.

Bees we were talking about. Bitter, burdened by fear or bound up. How can people know? That's I mean, those those things can kinda coexist in different ways. What would you recommend to someone who's, you know, looking to take an honest reckoning of themselves?

You know, where where do I where do I fall? And then maybe how do I, you know, do better and and, try not to to fall into those habits? Well, I think it's a great question. And I think, we set ourselves up for failure if we think it's only one. We also set ourselves up for failure if we think it's all of them at the same time because then there's nothing specific to focus on.

But I do believe it's it's very fluid. This is the human side of of the journey of walking with Jesus towards eternity is today, I may be pretty bitter. You know, maybe on a macro scale, day over day, I'm probably more on the bitter scale. You know, I know Shelby and I are as she many many of you may know, Shelby has my wife has been diagnosed with an incurable autoimmune disease that could be very, dangerous and life threatening, but at very least, it's very painful and limiting. And we've talking with each other, but even Graham has even been able to identify, you know, why this is just wrong.

This shouldn't be this way. And that those are the signs of, very normal human response of just this isn't right, and I wanna I wanna fix it. But there's other days, you know, maybe even later in the week that there's a paralysis that sets in. Just what do we do with this, you know, how do and, you know, then there's probably the ever present fear, you know, of, what could happen as we look at real life. And, you know, I know you you guys are well acquainted with those feelings.

And, again, to be tempted to feel them is is no sin, but when we kinda give ourselves over to them and I think that you asked a question, how do we kind of, start paying attention to which one of these resonates? I think it really is the ability to pause and access what I'm feeling, with not in the hustle and bustle, but to actually step away and to say, do I know what I'm feeling? Am I giving myself enough time to understand what I'm feeling so that I have some sort of focus, of what may be the the the symptom I'm experiencing. You know, if you go and just talk with your doctor, they're gonna ask you a 100 questions, but eventually, they're gonna start to zero in on something. And I think you gotta have that that doctor visit with, with God and the power of the Holy Spirit, but you gotta have time to do that.

If you don't have time to do that, you're not gonna be able to pay attention to the markers, to diagnose the heart. And and then I think, you know, not to belabor this point too much, but diagnosing the heart is not a one time thing. It would be it would be very unproductive to believe that it is. Although you you may have a macro theme that's true or consistent for a longer period of time, we really need to have those, frequent check ins. And I think that's what what god calls us to is to commune with them in a way where we have it frequently.

So I think, they just I mean, thanks for sharing that. I think, you know, you can think when you're preaching out there, you're preaching at, you know, at an audience, at a church, but it would seem like, you know, for this, it's certainly preaching to yourself and to your family and to those who, you know, know you so well at the exact same time. How do you get through it? What what is your Yeah. What's your key?

The the preaching or, just the challenges So Oh, the challenges. Yeah. You know, where Yeah. Yeah. We seem like every day can be a little bit different and how she's feeling and the pressures of, you know, you're dealing with at work and in this season and and things like that.

You know, I'm I'm I'm sure just ever easier to to be, you know, having a wandering heart, that Yeah. Is focused on those, momentary, rather than having that wide view of God and and the the the true power that really changes us. You know, what what your how do you do it yourself? Yeah. Well, imperfectly.

But, I would say, there there's there's maybe two parts to this answer. The first, this maybe is the most maybe practical in light of what we talked about in the sermon, but, you have to slow down. You will, miss the markers of what's going on in your own soul or the invitations from the Lord that's awakening your heart if you are trying to continue the same pace, that you were. That may maybe you don't have the privilege of slowing down in your work or whatever it may be, but, are you slowing down to prioritize, time to become self aware? But, also, are you prioritizing time to hear from the hearts of those that you care about the most and helping them to diagnose their heart?

Because we can't do it by ourselves. I mean, the holy spirit helps us, but then, also, you know, Shelby and I have really tried to, prioritize. We have an evening time where we ask how are you doing, you know, what are you feeling, and what do you need. And so that in the external processing, even though it's not easy for all of us to do that, doing it with someone else, knowing, lord, you know, is amongst our midst, by baking in time to actually to talk, and the heart comes out, and then it makes it easier to kind of figure out what the heart wants. And the heart doesn't want the, you know, the the candy of this world.

That heart usually wants the deeper lasting fruit, which is kind of that second point, which is you have to you have to be able to know what you really want. Do I do I want this problem to go away, or do I want the deeper fruit of, you know, being alive and communing with god? Sometimes, I don't want that. But if I really can slow down and ask those questions, I can get to myself to understand what I what I truly want, what truly matters, and then go through the really gritty well, there's that no. I don't I'm using the gritty word again.

Prayers of, god, I I I hunger and thirst for you. I I wanna walk with you through this. Yeah. Don't let me go. Don't let me go over to the the other side of the powers because there is tempting.

You know, I said in the sermon, there's the temptation to say, what other powers exist? You know? What other powers could I put my my trust in that might alleviate some of the symptoms of what I'm feeling? But by knowing what you truly want is an anchor, that keeps us going to the right sources. So I don't know if that made any sense.

That was that was, I think but making a habit of it, I think, is a huge Yeah. And I think that's it's not just something that should be done when you're having a difficult time, although that's not a bad time to start. But, you know, to have that as a regular practice, you know, whether that's you know, because, yes, work can be very busy or, you know, you're not very busy. I don't like to wake up early, but you can always get up a little bit earlier. Yeah.

Yeah. Late. I can always stay up a little bit late. Those kind of things. And so, you know, you can you can carve time out to to make that, yeah.

We're all we all have more time, you know, within reason. Yeah. And on that point, though, I think that, time is one of those things that, when you when you prioritize it properly, which is hard. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that it's an easy fix.

But time tends you know, you will feel, as as long as it takes you to, as long as the time you give it, you'll fill it with whatever it is. And so by saying, you know, hey. I'm I'm actually giving myself this time. And even if it's only ten minutes, it's likely that by the end of that ten minutes, you're so immersed in it that you don't wanna don't want it to, quit, and, likely. Not not perfect science.

And I think I think God intends that that, you know, the starting energy to getting kinda over the inertia is usually the hardest part. But if we don't actually put time on the on in blocks, whatever you got, to become spiritually aware, chances are you're not gonna do it in the middle of the busy day. And and making sure that we have that time is a key survival, need, to, I think, walking walking with Jesus. So 100%. Alright.

Well, that was just that that was just us talking about your sin to Alright. Did you did you have anything you had to cut for time? I'm sure there were Oh, yeah. A rich passage. You know, this is one thing, you know, I've got I've got a few here, and I'll try to be as efficient as possible.

But I think the first thing is Don't be efficient. We have No. We got time. We got time. We have time.

That's right. We have time. I I really saw, you know, Ephesians is such a beautiful book. You know, pastor Tom says he's preached through it several times. Jeff, you know, has preached through it several times.

There's so much there. We could go line by line. You know, we've done that in Acts. You know, we're maybe we do that in Ephesians. We wouldn't be it would be worthy to do that, but, what I if I kinda zoomed out in the whole passage, I feel like, the torrential downpour of blessings that Paul pours out right before my passage, and then where it opens up after that, where we'll see is Paul really explaining, you know, the nature of our salvation and what these relationships look like in Christ.

I almost saw this as the the hinge or the gate of, we need a transformational power, to to to see these things happen. Otherwise, it could turn into, you know, just a laundry list of, of things that we should do or how we should live this out. But, you know, I thought I thought that was a key piece for me and really understanding the whole book. And so if it's helpful for anybody else, this if we look at the whole book, we have these blessings, and then he shows us the kind of establishing, power of God to make these blessings real. And now that power has been established, and he's done it all, and it's not been us.

And now what do we go do with it? And so I I I don't know if that's helpful for anybody, but that was definitely a piece that, helped me, I think, zero in on the idea of power, that is necessary for the enlightening of the heart, that speak about in the passage. So that's one piece. K. Was there anything else you had to cut for time?

I know you talked about that that at the very end, the the fullness of him who fills all in all. There's a little bit of a debate on exactly what that means. Yeah. Yeah. The the way the the word choice and even, you know, how how it's ordered and the tenses and all that, you know, scholars debate, they go back and forth.

Is he just talking about Jesus is the fullness of all who fills all or is he saying, you know, what is what he says here, that he puts all thing under his feet and give him his head over all things to the church to the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all. And I thought that, if we had more time, especially as we are in transition, to really explore that second interpretation. And again, everyone says there's it's impossible to know. Is he talking about him or is he talking about the church? But if we are to even just, put that in the larger context of scripture, he's saying, he's the head of the church who, you know, directs us, who, guides us, who, you know, is the one that keeps us together, but he fills us with his fullness, and then we all go out and fill everything else.

And I think that's really dignifying. I think that's really exciting. I think that is intimidating. You know, it opens up a whole subset of 10 other questions of what does it mean to be filled with his fullness, And I think that's the slow progressive sanctification that, you know, Philippians one, six or nine. He'll be getting good work is gonna carry us into completion.

This idea that he he is now, you know, as we are as sheep, you know, he's filling us, where his body, he's filling us with his fullness. And to the measured degree, we kind of yield to that or, you know, rebel against it. Either way, he's he's at work refining us. He's he's carrying us into completion. He's filling us with the fullness of who he is.

And if you think about what is the fullness of who Jesus is, if you just stop, become kind of aware of that phrase, that's a mind boggling phrase, that should make us go wow. And I think it's tied to that piece where I talked about in the sermon of he made us to be fully alive in him for holy in holiness, but also in love and joy and peace, in the way we were intended when we were created in the garden. It's that kinda return back to Eden in that fullness. Although imperfect, the side of heaven is gonna work its way out as we move out into the world, and that's the dignifying work of being a part of the family business of God. Where his body, we get to go out in his family business, and we get to fill the world with his love and his goodness, and and his glory, as agents of that.

And I I if we could have a whole sermon about that, I think that would be worthy, as we seek to be a church in transition who needs a a kind of a renewed mandate that our job is to fill ourselves up and to go out and to fill, in in the world today. Well, it's the line that I wrote from what you said. You know, we are immersed with power on every side, and that is good news. That is good news. Yeah.

I mean, it's good news that we just gotta make sure that our eyes are focused on the right power, you know Right. And the last and the the one that is ultimate, and authoritative overall things even if it may not feel like it in the moment. I think that is really key. And I know you you and I have talked about this. Often, we are not going to feel or is that gonna be immediately obvious to us because we are still gonna experience trials and sufferings.

And this is not a power that removes those. It doesn't say that. You know, it's a past, it's a present, and it's a future power, but it is really a protecting power that protects the will of God in our life that he will his plans will not be thwarted, and it is a protecting power that ensures that all things we work for our good, but it is not a removing power. And that's where I think the second part if that it's indwelling, it's it's in us. He's gonna his will will be protected, in our life.

We can't he can't be thwarted, but we still walk this broken path, and we need the indwelling power, to do that because we will stumble, we will struggle, we will sin, we will be overcome. I mean, I think it was, towards the end just came from from my but sometimes I don't feel I have the especially in light of Shelby's sickness, but just in general as a human that we don't have the same I don't have the the wisdom, the competency, the energy to meet the demands of reality. That's how it feels some days. But, knowing that I have that indwelling power, I keep on keeping on knowing that he's gonna supply as as we move forward, you know, as I don't look to come from myself. So, yeah, I'm glad you said that piece because it won't be obvious.

It won't it won't it won't look like, you know, the gloriously triumphant, you know, a worldly interpretation of what power looks like. It's a much grittier power there. I snuck it in one more time. Pretty power. Oh, yeah.

So Alright. I'll fix it. Joel, again, thank you so much for, all that you had to share and and for, joining us on Cut for Time. We'll look forward to doing it again sometime soon if if, you know, you're back up on front. It was it was, it was good to hear you and and, you know, good to hear your, you know, vision and and, interpretation of scriptures.

It was very helpful. So Oh, it was a real pleasure pleasure hanging out with you too, Dan. Alright. Well, take care. We'll see you next week.

We'll see you next week. Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Cut for Time. If you wish to submit questions to our pastors following Sunday's sermon, you can email them to podcast@faithchurchindy.com. Or text them in to our Faith Church texting number, and we'll do our best to cover them in next week's episode. If this conversation blessed you in any way, we encourage you to share it with others.

We'll be back again next week.