Hey, Faith Church. I'm Claire Kingsley, and it's go time. We are releasing podcast interviews with our missionaries prior to their go time weekend. This will allow you to catch up with them before you see them at an event. The purpose of our podcast is to meet the missionaries and hear what they're up to.

They will also share a few ways you can be partnering with them in prayer. I encourage you to take the time to pray for each missionary as the episode ends. Today's episode features our missionary, Kathy Small. She has been in a variety of roles in her last 30 years of ministry and is currently teaching at Central American Theological Seminary in Guatemala. Her go time weekend is October 25th through 28th.

You can find her full schedule of events on our website at faithchurchindy.com/go time. Here's my conversation with Kathy Small. Alright. Kathy, thank you so much for taking time this early morning for you to have a conversation for our Faith Church listeners. Well, I'm happy to be here, and early morning works.

Well, it's only 7 o'clock here, but still, I'm very happy to be here regardless of the hour. K. Thank you. Well, would you tell us introduce yourself a little bit to us for somebody who doesn't know you very well, a little bit about your backstory. So not just where you are now, but maybe a little bit of how you've gotten here and your journey in vocational ministry.

Okay. Well, I was raised in a in a Christian home. I'll try not to go too far back, but I was raised in a Christian home with parents who were very pro missions, if you wanna think about it that way. And even as a young girl and then as a teenager, I had the opportunity to go visit missionaries in Colombia and in Ecuador. Once with my parents and then once on my own to meet up with missionaries.

So I can't, you know, downplay the influence that that had. And then being involved at SAITH and the strong missions emphasis. And I remember just, coming to the conclusion that while I was, you know, doing fine, living in Indianapolis and teaching at school, I began to have the sense that god wanted me to pursue ministry. And what seemed most natural to me was, well, I'm a teacher, so why not go teach at a school for missionary kids? And so I, that was my first relatively long term experience when I taught at a school for missionary kids in Venezuela, right on the Colombian border.

Mhmm. Okay. So, yeah, that's how it got started. Okay. And then now fast forward to what are you doing now?

Well, Venezuela led to Peru. Peru led to where I'm at now in Guatemala City. I've been here for about 7 years, and I teach at the Central American Theological Seminary. If you look at it in Spanish, it's referred to as CTECA, Seminario Theologico Centroamericano. So that's where where I have been.

When you teach, do you teach your classes in Spanish? Yes. I have to laugh sometimes because God just helps it to come out. You know? And when I get lost for a word or something, you know, students help me and we laugh about it.

Well, Cathy, we've been able to host you for a go time weekend before. This is the first time that I've ever had the privilege to interview somebody for a podcast that we've done a podcast with before. We've always had first time podcast, podcast people. Well, I'm a 100. Yeah.

And so I feel like, you know, to prepare for our conversation, I listened back to our first one, 4 years ago, Start we started to navigate pandemic life. And, you had mentioned, like, all of your classes were over Zoom, and that was a whole thing to figure out. You mentioned that your church was just, like, a great provision from the Lord. You are really thankful for that. But a lot has changed in our world and in your world since we last spoke with you.

And so I'd love for you to have an opportunity to share what's changed in the last 4 years. If someone was a part of your first GoTime weekend a few years ago, give us a little bit of an update of how things have changed for you. Okay. Well, I'm not involved in elearning, but the elearning program has, you know, definitely expanded. For some well, for a couple years, we had students who had started studying during the pandemic, and they lived in other countries.

And I I personally had a student who he's Guatemalan, but he's lived most of his life in in California. And so, after we could go back to meeting in person with masks at first, but this student, Marvin, he couldn't, you know, pack up his family and move back to Guatemala. And so, I led was actually about 3 more years of most of the students who were there, you know, personally. And, I had Marvin and I think it was one other that connected via Zoom. And so that was a challenge.

Yep. Yeah. That was very much a challenge. And when I when I'm involved in teaching, I don't check, you know, my phone for messages and things like that. You know, it gets put on silence, and I forget about it.

Yeah. But there would be all sorts of problems that, students would get disconnected or they were trying to speak and we weren't acknowledging them because the, the audio, it would if no one who is participating Zoom would speak for more than a 5:5 minutes, we couldn't hear them. They didn't know that we couldn't hear them, so students would have to go back and forth with me. Hey hey, so and so is trying to say something and they can't hear us. So then we'd have to try to, you know, adjust the audio.

It was it was rather funny, and, actually, that ended, it was supposed to end the end of this year because all of the students could have graduated, but, we ended up having to go through half of the year with still a couple participating via Zoom. Okay. Okay. And, what else has been happening in the last few years that's new for you? Well, just actually during the pandemic, I got a request for a meeting with the dean and, the, director of the postgrad program, and they were telling me that they offer a, a PhD in theological education, and asked me if I would be interested in considering it.

And first, I said no because of my age, you know, I'm not like this spring chicken anymore. But the more I thought about it and prayed about it, my dad really encouraged me to go for it. So, yeah, I'm in my 3rd year and, of the PhD program in theological education, And it has 3 areas of focus. 1 is obviously the education, and that's the area I'm strongest in. The other area is, theology, theological reflection, is, theology, theological reflection, and the third area is leadership, to actually be able to prepare people to, be in teams or presidents of theological institutions in Latin America.

Okay. What do you hope is, in the outcome of the PhD program or many outcomes that you're you're hoping for at the end of this long road or this journey of pursuing this? Well, one, I think it's made me a better teacher, just more well rounded. Right now, we are taking an investigation class as well as we are actually developing what will be the first chapter of, our dissertation. And I've had a little trouble with that second part, but just this last week, I got the green light that I'm on the track right track and just keep moving along.

So what do I hope will be the outcome? One of my areas of of experience and interest is obviously teaching. And so I knew that I would wanna pick a theme somewhere in the education area. Yes. And I'm also interested in just how are how are students spiritually formed during their time with the study in a in a seminary?

And so the the topic that I have come up with is if you look at the the kind of the the three areas that research says that, need to be, you know, joined together well We did. Are the academic part, ministry training, and spiritual formation, or helping your students in the midst of of the academics, the ministry training, helping them to grow spiritually and not just see, okay. Well, this is the academic, so, you know, I'm not gonna learn anything about how to know Christ better or how to honor him, that kind of thing. And I'm I'm putting it together with curriculum. So, I hope I'm not being too technical here, that when you look at curriculum, you have what they call a visible curriculum.

You know, that's that's what's on paper. That's what they say they do. Okay. K? But then there's always an invisible curriculum, and that those are, things that are taught that are not necessarily intended to be taught.

And I'll give an example of a student this year. I interviewed several students who were getting ready to graduate a couple weeks ago, and one of the students told me that she has had a couple prep, professors who have been great at integrating the academic part with helping her to grow spiritually. She said that she had one professor, have no idea who it is, nor do I wanna know, but he basically said on the 1st day of class, well, I'm assuming that you all have your quiet time with the Lord and there's chapel, you know, and there's other things, so we're really just gonna focus on the academics. And so I wonder how how often does that happen? And I in our seminary, there's a very strong focus on academics.

That doesn't mean the spiritual formation is not a part of it. But, so I I just began to think, well, maybe what I need to look at is the the visible curriculum. You know? This is what the dean says we do. And then interview students and teachers too and, begin to get a feel for how well is the seminary really doing in, helping to join those parts together.

And so, right now, I've just started to do, you know, bib biblia bibliography research. And it's interesting that just looking at formations spiritual formation in a seminary, it a lot of the research, probably most of it, comes out of North America, and I certainly can use that. But my focus is Latin America, and, I will be choosing 4 seminaries in Latin America to actually do the the case studies. So with this biographical research, it's interesting that very, very little comes out of Latin America, but what I am finding is that the Roman Catholic church Yep. At their seminaries are producing more information.

And then in I'm finding information in Africa too. So my interest is really more in the global south, Africa, Latin America. But my my focus is going to be on Latin America and, then doing case studies, not only at at the seminary where I'm at, but 3 others. Okay. Okay.

And I think I think it's important because well, we've seen in the US the fall of a number of ministry leaders, well known ministry leaders. And I think that that area really that just your your relationship with the lord and your character are so important to, minister in the local church. Mhmm. Well, in other places too. And, I think all of us who teach in the area of theological education would say that, yeah, it's not just the academics they need.

It's it's ministry skills, but, also, we need to help these students grow spiritually Mhmm. From where they are at. And so I think that's it's very important. Okay. Yeah.

Alright. I see the value of your your research, and I can see how, even just going through the motions of the program you said are impacting your teaching in the classroom now in real time as you continue to teach as well as study, and then hoping that you're, the hope is that when you've completed your research, it can impact seminaries in how that they are forming students, and addressing in the lives of their students for the time that they have them. Mainly in Latin America. Right. Right.

And, yeah, you have this you have this wonderful opportunity to pursue and complete this program, but also a very difficult reality that something you've shared with us is or shared with me is just the challenge of funding right now, your current fundraising. And just the reality that if the funding doesn't change, your financial support doesn't change, that could mean you having to change plans. So, Kathy, if, your fundings and financial support doesn't change, what would be the impact that you're starting you're having to face? Well, right right now, I am really, really under supported. But through god's graciousness, there have been there's been a a person had who has made a a large donation.

And so right now, what doesn't come in monthly or however you wanna look at that is made up out of those funds. And but I know that they won't last forever. And so just thinking about that question that you planted to me last week, I believe the answer is that I would need to leave the mission, and move back to the US, likely Indianapolis, and find a job, until I can retire. Okay. So, ideally, you would be able to stay in the mission field for another 5 or so years.

Is that right? Well, a lot of it depends on my dad's health and my health and things like that too, but, definitely, 2 years. And if I could stay a little bit longer, you know, while I'm working on the dissertation, that would be wonderful. Well So the minimum 2, you know, maybe maximum 5 or so. So what would be left undone if you had to leave before before that time?

Well, I certainly could continue, you know, to work on the the dissertation, you know, when I get to to the point of actually starting to work on it, something I I think 2 areas would be affected. 1 is, I coordinate, one of the the program the academic programs. And this program is actually, it's been unfolding in stages. Mhmm. And so I wouldn't be able to see that through if I had to lead the mission.

Mhmm. And I certainly would like to see that, you know, go through one cycle and, see what adjustments might be necessary. And then the other thing is not necessarily well, it is related to the seminary because each year I've been choosing 1 or more female students to invest in. And so the the student candy that I've written about in per updates, she just graduated. And so when the school year begins in January, I anticipate choosing another another young woman, and working with her until she graduates.

And then, in my church, I'm involved in a a small group. They're called missional communities. And being one of the oldest or maybe the oldest in the group, it's given me a chance to get to know a lot of, younger women. And, I like spending time with them, I'm trying to invest in them. So that would that would end too.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, Kathy, we know that you are in need of financial support. What other ways could our, body come around you and support you during your go time weekend?

I love to just catch up with people, you know, so to be able to spend time, you know, with people, let's say maybe some people who are interested, but want to know more about me and what I do, and I certainly would make that a priority. Mhmm. Interest in people praying. And, actually, there is a a prayer group that meets online the 1st Sunday of the month. When was it?

At it's 6 o'clock Indianapolis time. And so I met with them yesterday. And then, you know, the other thing, when I first started, when I first went to Venezuela, you know, I was one of the younger people, younger missionaries. Well, now I'm not. You know, in 3 countries later and 30 years later, I'd say in many ways, I'm not the same.

God has changed me, things that I never ever thought that I would be doing. I'm doing, and I'm I'm content. Mhmm. And so, you know, may I don't know. Maybe there's some people who are just, you know, kind of stuck, you know, or maybe they think God might be leading them in one direction, but they're scared, you know.

And and I certainly can share from my experience what that has looked like. Okay. And continues to look like sometimes. Yeah. What are some of the ways that faith could, pray for you?

Do you have some prayer requests that we could share with our listeners? Even though the seminary's fees are really not high, only 1 third of the the total income of the seminary is provided by students and the fees that they pay. And so that means a lot of students are on financial aid, and thankfully that, you know, God has made that available. So, praying for people who want to study, you know, that God would bring them and that there would be, financial aid for them to study. Another one would be relationships with students.

You know, specifically, that god would lock lead me to this student or maybe students that he wants me to begin to invest in, next year. Indeed. Okay. And then that I would Yep. Reflect the lord.

You know, that I would be a a visible representative of someone who loves the lord and wants to do and to be what honors him. Okay. Thank you, Kathy. We'd love to pray for you in that way. Well, we have your go time weekend coming up on October 27th to 28th, and I'm just going to review the schedule of events.

So people who are listening are able to kind of mark that in their calendars or something, take notice. So we will host you in our services on Sunday, and people could meet you for the first time or catch up with you between services. And then we will have a lunch with you in, 210 room 210, after second service. And then on Monday night, you're leading a seminar. It's at 7 PM, and we do all of our seminars hybrid style.

So it would be great if people could join in person or they could join online. And, you are sharing on lessons learned from 30 years in 3 countries. Right. Right. Obviously, I will answer questions and that kind of thing, but I thought, now that I'm in the older age range at the church, what might be helpful is lessons that I've learned, you know, during this time.

I have made some mistakes, and that some of those mistakes have affected people. That's good. I've grown a lot. Babe. And as, you know, I think about it, God wants to work work within us, and, I mean, anybody who just, you know, Lord, I'm yours, he does that.

But I thought I might just get into some of the more personal personal and probably a little bit of vulnerability too Yeah. That I hope could be an encouragement to others. And it it while it's gonna talk about the experience, you know, 3 countries, 30 years, it isn't all related to where I've been located. You know, God God could have done some of this changing, you know, back in Indianapolis, but there definitely are aspects that just occur when you're living cross culturally or in a different country Right. Than is your own.

Yep. Thank you. Well, thank you for being willing to share in that way and being vulnerable with us and just the amount of, the amount of time it takes to prepare that, you know, actual time and then just emotional energy. So thank you so much for doing that, and we look forward to hosting you in a few weeks. And, we just thank you so much for your time catching up with you today.

If people wanna know more about Kathy, they could listen to our first conversation that we had a few years ago so you can hear more about what teaching looks like for you and the classes that you love to teach and what you enjoy. But definitely, we appreciate this this update and learning more about what you're working on right now, what finishing well looks like for you, and how we can come alongside you and support you. Thank you so much for this time.