Hey. You're listening to Cut for Time, a podcast from Faith Church located on the North Side Of Indianapolis. My name is Claire Kingsley. And I'm Dan Breitwieser. Each week, one of us will sit down with the person who gave Sunday's sermon to discuss their message.

Cut for Time is a look behind the scenes of sermon preparation, and they'll share with us a few things that we didn't hear from the sermon on Sunday. Thanks for listening. Well, welcome. We are t minus one for making it all the way through the acts of the spirit. Almost three years in, Pastor Jeff.

How do we feel with one sermon to go? I I think there's, you know, thinking back over these couple years, I think there's some stuff we skipped over, so I was maybe we'll just extent now. Let's do it again. Yeah. Well, you know, we'll we'll have to talk about that next week in cover time, you know, when when we finally wrap it up.

You've had a little bit of mixed emotions. You know? I'm eager to get into a new series after our one worship. Gonna be kinda weird and a little sad to not be an axe. It's, you know, kinda like an old friend at this point.

It's been really good to just really walk through it. And I think really learn and think through the theological ramifications of what axe is. Because I think, certainly, for me and probably for a lot of other people, when I think of axe, I'm thinking about the swashbuckling stories that Paul engages in and Peter, and you think of the sheet. And you're, like, you're thinking of a lot of the narrative, and you're not necessarily thinking about the theological reasons behind why Yeah. Was included by Luke and why it's in the Bible.

Yeah. You know, this coming Sunday, I'll have a we'll talk about that maybe a little bit about, you know, there's even just giving us some perspective. I'm one of my one of my pop quiz questions will be like, okay. So we've been in this book for two years. How long do you think is the gap of time that the book of acts actually covers?

Like, from from Jesus' ascension to this end of the book. How long do you think that is? And you don't have to answer right now. It'll it'll be interesting. I I think it's, it's a lot longer than we probably think it is because there's a lot that and and we'll reflect on that a little bit about how there's just a lot that happens in our lives and a lot that happens in this story that just gets condensed into like, oh, yeah.

And Paul was in Arabia for three years. Oh, yeah. Paul was in prison for two years. And they're like, wait. What?

Like, slow down two whole years, and that was just like one sentence? I mean, anyway, yeah. So there's it's even interesting thing about what Luke includes, what he doesn't have time to include on, what helps advance the story and why. And, yeah. So even just preaching through a book that's a lot of narrative passages is different from, you know, we're gonna be going into the book of Ephesians, which I just love.

You know, it's it's such a beautiful letter and so rich. But, you know, thinking through how you preach through a passage on a shipwreck story is different from husbands love your wives, like Christ love the church, and wives submit to your husbands, and submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. I mean, that just jumps right to application. And and you don't have to noodle around a lot with, like, well, what did he mean by that, and why is this here? So, yeah, it's it's been good.

I've I've enjoyed it. I hope it's been, meaningful, enjoyable, fruitful for the whole congregation. I think it has been. Yeah. I've absolutely.

I would agree. Well, this week, the the sermon must settle the kingdom as we're reaching everything but the last two verses in Acts. So so kind of give us an overview of of, your sermon this week. Yeah. So, Paul has finally arrived in Rome, and a little surprisingly, he doesn't, connect with, Romans there.

He doesn't try to connect immediately with Christian brothers who were apparently there. He, in his typical fashion, though, does go to the Jewish community that's there in Rome, which isn't surprising on the one hand, and yet it also feels like that's not really why he went to Rome. So Paul is under house arrest. He has this opportunity to gather with the leaders of the, you know, spread out Jewish community there and takes another opportunity to talk to them about the kingdom of God and preach Jesus the Jewish Messiah from the Jewish bible and the the hope of Israel. And as is, you know, we've seen over and over, there's a mixed reaction.

Some some seem to believe. Some, you know, are scoffing and arguing, and Paul, then just says, okay. Fine. You know, like he's done before. If you don't wanna hear the gospel, I'll take it to the Gentiles because they will listen.

And so rather than just kind of focusing on that message itself, I took us a little bit through the the context of the message and all that went into it and and how Paul is here modeling for us in his own life this example of what it means to really continue to, in love, reach out to people. And Paul is willing to bear the cost because love bears the cost. There's all the trouble and inconvenience and difficulty that Paul has gone through to get here and and to reach these people. There's the the cost of the misrepresentation that he's willing to suffer. Like, the the only reason he's here is because of being falsely accused of, you know, horrible crimes, by the by the Jews back in Judea, and yet he doesn't even blame them so much.

Like, he he even has a statement that says I but I don't have any charge against my brothers back in Judea. And and love is willing to bear the cost of misunderstanding because the the heart of it, of course, is that these Jewish leaders are asking him, so, you know, we haven't really heard about you, but we have heard about this Jesus following, and and we definitely have some questions and concerns. It seems like everyone has negative things to say about them. And so that's the on entry point for Paul to talk about, what the gospel is and who Jesus is and what he's done. And he's willing to accept even, you know, this kind of misunderstanding about Jesus and about Jesus' followers as a way to open the door to talk to them and and to open up the conversation.

So it's just a reminder of how Paul is modeling in his life for us us this idea that loving people that we're trying to reach means being willing to bear the cost of all that that brings with it. It's gonna be inconvenient. It's gonna be time consuming. It it may be difficult. We may suffer from misunderstanding.

We may be misrepresented. We we may be miss mistaken as certain kinds of people, and have things said about us that aren't true. But we can even work within that and use those things as opportunities to clear the air about who Jesus is and what it really means to know and follow him. So, that that was kind of the the sermon in a nutshell. Okay.

I really wanna dig into, that idea of loving bearing the cost in a moment. Yeah. Yeah. I wanna get sort of two other things sort of, out of the way first, you know, because Yeah. This is cut for time, and I feel like last week, we really, we we got to that cut for time.

What did you actually cut for time at the very end? So I wanna start with what did you, you know, what didn't, wasn't able to be included, just for a second. What did you have to tackle? Well, this this fact that there's even a Jewish community in Rome is kinda surprising. And I I think I mentioned it just sort of alluded to it briefly, you know, that the whole reason that Paul met Priscilla and Aquila, back in Corinth a number of chapters ago is that they were Roman exiles as as Jews because, the emperor had kicked the Jews out.

And and there's there's actually, like, historically, we know this was like a recurring pattern. The Jews would get blamed for something. They become some scapegoats. They get kicked out, and then they get invited back. So the Romans and the Jews have this difficult, relationship that goes back and forth.

And what what that says, though, I mean, that recognition tells us that these Jewish leaders coming to meet Paul know what it's like to be outsiders. And so in some sense, it probably doesn't even bother them that Paul is a prisoner. Maybe even being under house arrest might might actually give him some credibility with these guys because they know what it's like to be in trouble with Rome. And so, even this fact that Paul is in chains, under house arrest, it's in you know, whatever that literally looks like, it's it's not necessarily a drawback. Right?

Like, it's it's something that God can use, and it it might have even helped, give him get him a hearing with these guys. Like, oh, well, we know what that's like, to to be under the thumb of Rome and to be, mistreated and misrepresented. So, yeah, let's go hear him. So, yeah, it's just just kind of an interesting note. Like, maybe sometimes, in our own lives, some of the things that maybe we think are maybe strikes against us or may maybe might make people look at us a little oddly or make us stand out, well, it's you know, God can work with that.

That might be the thing that opens the door for someone else that actually you share that with. That's interesting. And that yeah. Because we so often think about the the shame the cultural shame of prison in that time period, especially that but for the Roman Jews who were there, maybe not had the same connotations. Yeah.

Yeah. You know, there and there could be all kinds of applications for that in our lives. You know, it's not so much the case, in in our time, but not that long ago. You know, divorce in the church was, you know, almost kinda scandalous. And and if you were divorced, you know, that well, you know, that maybe was kind of a black mark or put a cloud over you.

And yet people who have been divorced can understand what that's like and reach out to people who are struggling in their marriages or have a broken marriage or were raised in a home, with divorce. And, you know, so the church has ministries now like divorce care. And, you know, so it doesn't it it just because you've had some potentially, you know, negative an inexperience in your life or a situation or background that other people might look at as maybe questionable or negative, that shouldn't you know, that that's not necessarily a negative thing at all as far as the kingdom is concerned. I mean, people that have been in jail. Well, we need people that know what that's like to reach people who are in jail or who have been in jail.

Right? Like, that's You took the words out of my mouth because I was thinking of Chuck Colson and, you know, prison fellowship. You know? Oh, yeah. I I Who better to to know how to minister to that?

Yeah. Well, we More than someone who was there. A church that we were connected within Saint Louis, a woman who, had had an abortion before she was a follower of Christ. She she becomes a Christian. She really starts reflecting on that, and and she's not just, like, overwhelmed with guilt about that.

But she turns that into a ministry to women who are struggling with post abortion guilt and to help them know that there's freedom and forgiveness and life and peace and and hope in Christ. So it yeah. The those things that, on the outside, maybe in some ways, societally might people might look down on can be the very thing that God uses to make a connection point with somebody. That's fantastic. Alright.

Well, I have we're and that will also kinda tie into what I wanna talk about. And really, we we would love bearing the cost. But first, I wanna I can't help but notice, you know, the book of Romans is two verses after, you know, the the passage we read. And so Yeah. You know, when I first was thinking about your sermon, I'm thinking about these, you know, Jews who had never heard of Paul as you would talked about.

But then I'm like, well, but Paul sort of had to have some sort of connection that maybe were the Christians or Romans. So can you kind of, like, just explain that? What's the connection between, you know, the Romans, the, you know, the letter of Romans, Paul writing that letter, but also being in Rome. And it's not like the first time he's, I guess, reached out to that group. I mean, just Right.

Explain that those those connections. Yeah. Again, it almost goes back to it's kind of interesting how he reaches out to the two as, you know, Jewish, brothers, countrymen initially because, Paul had already written this letter to the believers in Rome, and likely, from Corinth, probably, you know, which would have been around '55 to fifty seven AD, so a number of years earlier, like, I think on his third missionary journey. So Paul already you know, again, he's not met these people. And and in the letter, of course, he talks about a desire to to get to Rome and to see them.

And so it's yeah. It's just this, you know, writing a letter to the church in Rome was significant certainly in the sense that, again, Rome is you know, it would almost be kind of like the the New York and Washington combined together. You know, the the the financial, the cultural, the The side of Las Vegas as well. With with Las yeah. That's great.

Exactly. Yes. It's New York law it's the New York, Las Vegas, Washington, triangle in a yeah. It's it's all the wealth, the power, the cultural influence, the the immorality, the the government, the, you know, everything is flowing through Rome out to the entire known world. So it's, you know, maybe just say it's America, in that sense.

It's it's the economic military cultural powerhouse. And so Paul had written this letter to the believers in Rome because that's, again, where he just has this sense that God wants to take him and God will take him because of the strategic importance of Rome. And yet he hasn't met these people, and and he first gets to Rome. And and, again, his first impulse is not even to go find these people and connect with them, but connect with his Jewish brothers because of this, you know, again, sense of God's covenant promises to his people Israel and Jesus being the Jewish Messiah. And, you know, so he he follows that pattern.

But, yeah, there's certainly this place in his heart for the believers in Rome and the church in Rome, the significance of establishing a gospel presence in this. It's almost, I don't think you can even overstate the importance of Rome. And and if the gospel can make an impact there, that that will flow out in an even more significant way, to the whole Roman world. Because, again, almost everything flows in and out of Rome, not not literally, but, you know, in a in a pretty significant sense. So for for Paul to, have a heart and a a a hard for and an eye on, this fledgling church in Rome, which, you know, at this point, I need to go back and do the math, you know, how many years ago that would have been.

But, you know, so there's been a group of believers in Rome now for some number of years that Paul has not yet been able to meet. Yeah. And then Romans itself, I think because he has not met these believers, it's not a letter that's being written in response to a particular issue in the church. You know, like, that's what Corinthian first and second Corinthians are. That's what Galatians is.

He he's writing, in response to, oh, there's a problem or a need, but that's not Romans. And and so Romans then is just this sort of very broad sweeping perspective of the gospel and how God works in our lives and, almost sort of the whole the whole, path of coming to know Jesus and then living that faith out. And, so it's almost like Paul's, people said, like, the most theological it's almost like his systematic theology in a sense of of the Christian life. So in one way, it you know, it'd be great to jump into the book of Romans, but, you know, that would be another two year journey, really, to to do it justice. And maybe maybe we can get to it at some point.

Not next week, though. Alright. Well, let's No. Let's talk about the just the the meat of your message, you know, and the idea of loving bearing the cost because Yeah. So much rich application towards that.

But I'm sure there's a lot of people, who who would hear that and say, but there's a limit. Right? I mean, that that idea in, Christianity, and I would say, particularly, I think in recent decades, I think there's been a greater understanding of how that's been almost a weapon used against people that but even, you know, centuries and probably millennia, you have to bear the cost. Whether it's your spouse, husband or wife, that's your child, whether it's your boss, whether it's I mean, any of those kind of dynamics where you're not able to easily get away, you want the cost. And I don't think that's what you intended at all with what you were saying.

But where's that line? What what you know, when you're thinking about those ways that that concept has been used to bludgeon people into submission Yeah. Yeah. To, be a doormat, What would you say to that, and and where where is that line? Yeah.

I thank you for bringing that up, Dan. This is great. This is exactly what cut for time is good for. And, honestly, this would be great to, you know, like, if if it was in the context of, like, a whole grow class, you know, where we could talk through these things. Like, okay.

Let's, you know, debrief. So, yes, thank you. That those are great questions. Really well worth raising and glad we can dig into it. So one, I would say is absolutely agree with everything you've said.

The the the idea the the I the principle in general, yes, has been and can be taken, to become an excuse for, you know, all kinds of abuse and manipulation. And I I hope nobody heard it that way. And I and I hope nobody would, guess or take that to mean, well, therefore, then, you know, I you just have to put up with whatever. So one, you know, it would be good for us to remind ourselves that we're talking about in the context of kind of outreach and evangelistic engagement with people. So this is not talking about, family relationships.

It's not talking about husbands and wives. It's it's not talking about, you know, the the passage is obviously not at all about what is a healthy and appropriate and and biblically guided, you know, family or marital relationship look like or church relationships. This this is Paul looking for an opportunity to reach out to people who are far from Jesus. And and in that context, again, it it doesn't mean even there that we put up with abuse, that we, you know, we feel like, oh, I, you know, I have to literally harm myself or put myself in harm's way to to to get an opening to share the gospel with someone. Those things may be forced on us at times, you know, in extreme circumstances, but, you know, Paul is not doing that.

He didn't in a sense, he didn't really put himself in this position. He's in this position because, one, God has a unique calling on his life, and and, two, the the Romans and the Jews kind of together have have put him in this place. Sort of like, remember back a number of chapters ago, I think, Acts 16 when he's in jail in Philippi. And it becomes an opportunity for Paul to end up sharing the gospel with the jailer in Philippi. And, it's not that Paul is looking for opportunities or even excusing the actions of people that have put him in that circumstance.

In fact, you know, when when he's getting ready to be flogged in Jerusalem, he says, is it legal for you to flog a Roman citizen, by the way? So, you know, there there that's a good boundary marker. Right? Like, we you don't have to endure something that's illegal, that's immoral, that that's clearly contrary to biblical principles. But given that Paul is in this situation, he's willing to say, okay.

God can use this, and and I I can be willing to endure, the the reality of this injustice for one, because I, you know, I don't really have any choice in the matter. And maybe in that context, God can use it as a way to open up a door to reach someone. The other thing I would say is let's also remember too that over and over again, as we said, Paul, the the the thing that Paul's not willing to do for love, in even in the context of outreach, is just keep beating his head against a brick wall. Right? Like, he doesn't he's willing, in fact, to endure misrepresentation and being misunderstood if that's a way of, you know, opening up a conversation so he can clarify what the gospel really is and who Christians really are and what we actually believe and practice and and what a Christian life looks like.

But if people get to a point where, again, we talked about this, you know, they they just it's clear they're just hardened in opposition. There's no listening. There's no engagement. There there's no responsiveness. Then Paul says, okay.

You know, I I've given you an opportunity to hear. I don't have to, in a sense, even make Jesus and the gospel available to be dragged through the mud in that way. Right? Like, I I think, you know, Paul gets to this point where he's probably thinking of Jesus saying, don't cast your pearls before swine, And, you know, sending out the the disciples on the, you know, the the evangelistic training journey and saying, go into a town and find a person of peace and stay with them. And, if if they won't receive you and they won't receive the gospel, shake your dust off and say, you know, the God's judgment on you.

You know? It's I'm, you you don't wanna hear the gospel. You don't wanna hear the good news. You don't wanna hear about about peace and life and forgiveness? Okay.

I'm I'm not doing that hatefully. I'm not doing it angrily. But I also god is not calling me to stay here and endure abuse and rejection, and, you know, sort of let you think that the gospel is just something for you to make fun of and spit on, if you're not open to hearing anything. I, you know, God I I pray God will open your heart. I pray God will soften you, but God's not asking me to stay here and let you just, you know, trash Jesus and trash the gospel for your own entertainment.

I'll go share the good news with people who are at least willing to hear and and open to considering it. So does that help, Dan? Does that, makes sense? I I think I want to I wanna go back to one of the things you said early on, which is Yeah. Different than being in a, you know, marriage or a church or something like that.

Why is that different? What you know, those relationships are different. Right. You know, and I think maybe someone listening to this is going to be in that position. Hopefully, not Yes.

Right. So But but why is that different, and what would you encourage that person Yeah. In that situation to do? Yes. So, for one thing, just practically it's different because, you know, in the pastors that we have, it's just it's, you know, about an evangelistic outreach and not about Paul trying to model family or church or marital relationships.

And, and part of the reason those are different is because those are, we would say covenantal relationships. Those are significant committed relationships that that are different from, well, I just happen to be living in this neighborhood and these people are living around me or, you know, I live in this community and and these are these are the people in my sphere of influence. I mean, those relationships are significant, but they're different, of course, from, oh, I made a marriage commitment to this person, or I've made a commitment to be a part of this church community. And so in one sense, I would say that, you know, the the difference there is if those kinds of relationships exist, a marriage, a family, a church community that I'm a part of, we actually are gonna have higher expectations for what those relationships should look like. Right?

So if anything, there's a foundation there. Again, if at least one or both of the people in the relationship are Christians, there's a commitment around that relationship to say, okay. We're we're trying to follow relationship to say, okay. We're we're trying to follow Jesus and we're trying to do things his way. So all the more reason that abuse and manipulation and, you know, harm and ugliness are totally out of bounds in those kinds of relationships.

And and yet, of course, because we're sinful, because we live in a broken world, the that happens. Right? So when that happens, I think it's absolutely appropriate. Yes. Of course, we're gonna continue to pray.

We're we're going to try to reach out to that person with reason and, appeals to love and the covenant relationship we have. And if that's getting nowhere, then certainly you're going to call on other Christians, the leaders of the church, people around you who can help step in and advocate for you. But because, Jesus takes those relationships very seriously, God says those are supposed to be relationships of of nurture and love and support. And if that's not happening in that relationship, then your calling is not to stay in there and continue to be abused and manipulated. The the thing to do is to to call on other Christians who can help come alongside, support you, affirm you, protect you, and help you sort through, okay, what do I do now?

Okay. Because I have this relationship that's unhealthy and inappropriate, And the answer is not just simply, well, you know, you made a commitment and so you have to stay in it. The the question is the the issue is, okay. I the the thing I do then is reach out to pastors, to elders, to leaders, to friends, to people who can step in, pray with me, pray for me, and help me figure out what do I do now. Because because the answer is not just a simple, well, Jesus has called you to stay there, and Jesus has called you to bear the cost.

Because the whole point is that kind of behavior, if you're talking about something that's genuinely manipulative, abusive, it's it's a violation of the whole purpose of the relationship in the first place. So if that relationship has been so profoundly violated that, you you know, one of the persons in that relationship is just not operating according to biblical standards, why the relationship exists in the first place, that calls the whole relationship into question. And I'm I'm not saying again that that means, well, then, you know, the thing's over and you just bail. But, I think it it suggests you need to bring other people in who can make sure that you're safe, that you're cared for, that that you're not being harmed, and that can help you figure out, okay. Now what do we do given that if if, you know, in a scenario, you know, that we could play out.

If this other person in the relationship has so violated the the reason for the relationship existing that it even calls into question whether or not we have a covenant relationship anymore, then you you need to have people who can help you sort through what that means. And and that's, you know, one extreme end. And then from a wonderful, healthy, life giving, supportive relationship to that extreme, there's all kinds of shades in there. Right? And and I would say the same answer at any point on that continuum is we need people around us who can pray for us, give us perspective, help us sort through, is this okay?

Is this normal? Is this just part of living, you know, in a broken world when we're two sinful people trying to figure out marriage? What is acceptable? What is normal? What's reasonable?

And that's so there's no cut and dried answer for that, obviously. Right? And and that's why we need, the the wisdom and the perspective and the help of other people in the body of Christ who can, help us sort through that. Right? Like, my spouse always leaves dirty socks on the floor.

Well, okay. What what do I do it? Right? I mean, that's you know, my husband always forgets to take the garbage out. My my wife you know, I've asked her again and again that this thing would be meaningful, and it just it never happens.

And, you know, how do I sort through that? Okay. That's not abusive. That's not, it's not helpful. It it's you know?

So where's the line there, and what do I put up with? And and what does it mean for love to bear the cost in those things? And, how do I navigate through that? That's where we need one another, in the body of Christ, to help sort through that, bear one another's burdens, and and seek godly help and counsel. And, you know, in serious cases, protection and, safety if if we're not getting that in those relationships.

Yep. And then thinking of that, I'm I'm certainly thinking more than the dirty socks Right. Situation. But I I think Yeah. Yeah.

In the the, you know, good pastoral peace, you know, prayerfully, practically, as well as protecting Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Others in marriage. No.

And I'm not I'm not meaning that, you know, the dirty socks thing was not meant to make light of the the ugly reality that, you know, some people experience, unfortunately, you know, for example, in in marriage. But I'm just saying, you know, on the on the one end of Right. Everything's great. It's in loving, nurturing, supportive relationship, and and, you know, I couldn't imagine anything better to the extreme of, you know, abuse, manipulation, violence. There's a lot of room in between there where what does it mean for me to love my spouse as Christ loved the church, and what does it mean for me to submit, and when is it healthy submission, and when is it unhealthy submission?

And, and that's where we, you know, we we need prayer, we need the spirit, we need guidance and input from other Christians, to discern, am I called to bear this cost? Am I not called to bear this cost in in this relationship? Is this a cost that's, you know, so high and unhealthy that that it actually calls into question whether or not this is really appropriate. Yeah. But I just think, I'm thinking of some of the foundation, sermon series from several years ago, particularly when we got into that issue, in the sermon on the mount with Mhmm.

Adultery and and divorce and, all those kinds of things and Yeah. Yeah. The messages that were shared then as well as in cut for time following that. But I think, you know, if someone is listening to this and they're wondering, then I think you're a really good person to be reaching out to and and you would love to have the conversation with that individual or somebody else that they Yeah. That effort.

Absolutely. With any of our elders, you know, we we would love to talk with you and and most of all that we want people to know you're not alone and and you shouldn't be alone. And we don't want you to be alone, especially if you're, yeah, feeling like I'm I'm not sure this is healthy and appropriate. I'm not sure this is a thing that I'm called to bear. And I'm not sure Jesus is calling me to bear this because Jesus does not call us to bear abuse, violence, manipulation, harm.

Yeah. So and sometimes, honestly, we can need help just sorting through that. Is this harm? Is this abuse? Is this manipulation?

And so, again, prayer, partnership with others, in the body, those are the things that help us sort through those things and and bear one another's burdens in it. Very good. Very good. Pastor Jeff, anything else, here on this, you know, t minus one to go? Yeah.

Pray for strong finish, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Alright. Well, thanks for sharing, and and, again, thanks for, taking those questions.

It's it's, those are not easy things to to, talk about. So I hope anybody that's listening, takes that to heart. Yeah. Amen. Thanks, Dan.

Thank you for thank you for bringing that up and and asking the questions and engaging. Good good thoughts. Good yeah. Appreciate it. We'll see you next week for Alright.

The final one. Have a good one. Yeah. You too. Thanks, Dan.

Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Cut for Time. If you wish to submit questions to our pastors following Sunday's sermon, you can email them to podcast@faithchurchindy.com. Or text them into our Faith Church texting number, and we'll do our best to cover them in next week's episode. If this conversation blessed you in any way, we encourage you to share it with others. We'll be back again next week.