Hey. You're listening to Cut for Time, a podcast from Faith Church located on the North Side Of Indianapolis. My name is Claire Kingsley. Each week, I'll sit down with one of our preaching pastors to discuss their Sunday sermon. Cut for time is a look behind the scenes of sermon preparation, and they'll share with us a few things that we didn't hear from the sermon on Sunday.

Thanks for listening. It's come for time. Two. It's come for time. Take two.

Over under, how many times will be we be interrupted in the next half hour? I'm gonna guess, we will be interrupted three times, and nobody at home will know because Britney will edit it all out, and it'll be amazing. Mhmm. Mhmm. It will be.

I will take over. So Yeah. I'm gonna say over three. You can say over three? Okay.

I'm gonna say under three then. Three or under. Three under. Alright. Okay.

Alright. Joey, your sermon from Sunday, you actually took a huge passage, covered a lot of ground, and it was the last, the last sermon before we begin our lunch series. And so did you feel, like, the pressure to kind of, like, put a bow on it to, like, help us push pause for a hot second, or do you feel like you we just are you're sad that we can't just keep going into the very next section? Like, tell us what you taught on and then how it fell a little bit within the context of lent. Yeah.

Well, first of all, I did it dumb, and I suggested to Jeff and Nathan, like, hey. We were just gonna the way we originally planned it was we were just gonna end this end the sermon after the just the two years of waiting, Not get to the day of all that activity. And I was like, I'm not sure if there's enough there, you know, for the whole sermon, if that's the right place to leave it. So we combined what would have been two weeks into one. Then I start writing the sermon.

I'm like, oh man, there's so much in here. I don't have time now. I should have kept them separate, but we'd already changed everything. So I did it dumb. Okay.

But I think either place, we could have left it. We could have either left it at, like, two years of waiting. Now we go into Lent. Or okay. Now we things have changed, and come back next time.

You know? Yep. Either way, it would have it would have been a a good ending, I think. So Okay. Yeah.

So anyway, we covered two scenes Yeah. From, from the life of Paul in this trial that he's been going through. And by trial, I mean court trial. Yep. So we we covered all that last week.

The first court trial in front of this guy, Felix, the governor. Well, then Felix, just kinda keeps Paul hanging for two years. And then we get a transition in power to a new guy, Festus, and he starts everything over from the beginning. He wants to deal with this quickly, get it off of his plate, and we end up with Paul appealing to Caesar then to hear his case. So, kind of the these the the juxtaposition of the two scenes was, like, is God working or is God not working when there's two years of nothing happening and then one day of everything happening, it feels like.

So Mhmm. In our own experience, when we feel like God's not working or he's not there, or maybe he's working but we can't see it, or, yes, he's definitely working, you you know, versus that one day of things are happening. And then god finally showed up, and we have this kind of subjective sense of god's not doing anything, and now finally he's doing something. And where we were trying to get to eventually in the end of of the sermon is, yeah, god is working this whole time. He's working in those two years, maybe not in the circumstances around us in a way I can see, but definitely in us.

Mhmm. He's working in us. And then, of course, on that day of frantic activity, yeah, you can see, God's hand at work. And still, it's not that Paul's passive and does nothing. He still is part actively part of what's happening, and God is working through him and his words as well.

Okay. We've got two questions that were texted in that relate kind of to the same topic, or just to Caesar. Yeah. Yeah. When Paul appealed to Caesar, he did it after the years of waiting.

Yeah. Could he have just done that two years earlier, and could we just cut that out? He could've. Yes. Yeah.

It's a good question. He could've. So he could've appealed from the beginning. So the right of appeal of a Roman citizen to have their case heard before the highest court in the land, which is Caesar himself. Right?

There's no separation of powers. We talked about this last week. The governor is also the judge. The executive is also the judicial branch. They're not branches.

They're one in the same. And so he could have done this two years earlier, but it's risky. Financially, it's costly. If you appeal to Rome, then you gotta pay to get there. And you gotta pay to get to have, you know, protection along the way if you need it.

So you don't really wanna do that if you don't have to to pay for it. Yeah. But also there's there is this sense of, like, it there's no guarantee that it's gonna go better. Right? By Paul moving the case, asking for the case to be moved to the highest court that's across all the provinces, he is opening himself up to charges from all of the provinces rather than just in Judea.

So we remember the case against him that that that was brought, you know, that before the period of waiting, part of the strength of that case was, hey, this guy is causing problems all around the world. Mhmm. And part of what Paul argues essentially is, like, that's outside the jurisdiction of this one area. That has nothing to do with what even if that were true, it has nothing to do with what's here in Jerusalem. Well, by appealing to Caesar, he is now allow all of that now has relevance to his case.

And so it may not go well. I mean, the charges against him might be more likely to stick. But the alternative of being handed back to the Jewish authorities in Jerusalem, to be tried before the Sanhedrin and almost certainly be found guilty and executed, Like, that's a high that's a higher risk as well as right. He remembers the last time he was, asked to you know, there was a plot to move him from one place to another or Jews are asking a the Jewish authorities are asking for a favor for him to be moved from one place to another. It's because there was a plot to kill him along the way to ambush them Right.

Which happened a lot on the road from Jerusalem to Caesarea and happened easily in Jerusalem. So it's like, if they want me moved from one place to another, I'm pretty confident I know what's gonna happen along the way. And then there's the whole issue of, at this point, like, if he's just freed. Right? Especially on that day when there's a whole cadre of of, representatives from Jerusalem that are there, that's not the day you want to be declared not guilty and sent out, you know, the back gate into the crowd because they're all there and ready to take him out if necessary.

So it's like almost certain death if you're freed and declared innocent. Almost, you know, certainty of an attack along the way if you're moved to Jerusalem. And if you get there, almost certainly guilty and executed. So, yeah, now is the time to roll the dice with Caesar. Okay.

Okay. Well, speaking of, I think you were just starting to touch on this. Would Paul have considered a risky move to appeal to Nero, who must already have been had this reputation of being an unscrupulous Caesar. Nero was not a great dude, but what we often forget is that, actually, for the first five or six years of his rule, he was really good. He actually was really good.

From about '54 to '59, Nero so he succeeded Claudius. Claudius, was close friends with, a Roman stoic philosopher named Seneca. I don't know if you've ever heard of Seneca. We yep. We still have some of his writings around.

People still, read his stuff. Claudius exiled Seneca. But when Claudius, went off the scene and Nero came on, he brought Seneca back. And Seneca was his tutor and kind of his go to guy up until '59 or sixty AD. That's when the relationship kinda soured.

Nero went off the deep end. In sixty five AD, he told he he commanded Seneca to commit suicide, which he did. That happened a lot back then. But and until about the end of '59, the beginning of '60, Nero was was actually a pretty good emperor. He was a good Caesar.

He was doing a good job. He didn't spiral until after that or right around this time, which might be part of the reason why we know Paul ends up in Rome and then is just there, like, under house arrest for years. We don't really know how specifically how long, that Nero was just he was not doing his his job, not doing his work, and then ultimately starts the persecution against the Christians. And, you know, the whole thing Nero fiddles while Rome burns. When the the big fire in Rome, Nero blamed it on the Christians so that he could then, do a mass persecution and executions and yeah.

Not a great guy later. At this point, still a pretty good emperor. Okay. So it's not too risky. It's not the riskiest decision for him to make.

Right. At this point, it yeah. It's not like, oh, no. My only choice is to go be heard in front of the guy who hates Christians. No.

At this point, it's like, Nero's been doing a pretty good job. Okay. Maybe maybe this is worth it. It's better than the alternative. Okay.

Yeah. Alright. What else did you wish you could cover but couldn't because of the same time? Well, there's plenty of historical stuff. Like, we know a lot about Felix and Festus because of other writings that we have from around this period.

So there's a a Jewish historian named Josephus who wrote a lot about all of the stuff that's going on. That he was writing specifically, to kinda cement his location, his social location within, a Roman aristocracy. Like, he's trying to get on the good side, of the the Roman government. So we have to take some of what he wrote with, you know, grain of salt. But, he gives us lots of details.

So we know, for instance, that Felix was recalled in late fifty eight because there had been in Caesarea, there was a riot and, both Jews and gentiles together were rioting about something that Festus had done. He came in, was really heavy handed with the military. He put it down violently, killed so many people that the Jews and the Gentiles together sent representatives to Rome to go tell Caesar, Nero, to tell him, like, this guy needs to go. And it was successful. He was recalled, in scandal.

And the only reason he wasn't killed was because of Felix's brother, Pallas, Pallas, was Caesar's best friend, Nero's best friend, and appealed on his behalf and said, no. No. Just let him just let him retire. Whatever. So that's why he's taken off the scene.

And then it takes, you know, six months for the next guy to come in, Festus. And so Festus comes in. He's new to the scene. Right? And so the things that we see him doing early on are what you have to do when you're trying to appeal to the people you govern to cooperate with you.

Right? You're having to do the glad handing tour of, like, hey. What's on your mind? What can I do to help? You scratch my back.

I'll scratch yours. You know? He's already, Festus, the guy who comes in, he's already presented as more scrupulous, better a better governor overall than, Felix ever was. Unfortunately, Festus dies three years after he takes office. So he's out of the picture by about 8062, and it's only a couple years after that, when the big Jewish revolt happens in Jerusalem, and they get the Roman crackdown and the burning of the temple and all of that stuff.

So, yeah, a lot of political instability. And the the thing I could have taken more time to develop is, of course, there's the way the law works. And I I think I made this comment more off handedly. There's, of course, the way it's supposed to work. And then there's the way it actually works socially with backroom deals and all of that stuff.

So a lot of that is happening. A lot of that comes through in the story that we read, the way Luke tells it of the meetings between Festus and the religious authorities. You know, when we read it and we're like, oh, he wanted to do the Jews a favor, we're from our culture, we're like, well, that's not that's not okay. That's not the way it's supposed to be done. But from from within their culture, the whole world worked on social reciprocity.

It worked on, I do this for you, then you do this for me, then I do this for you, then you do this for me. Like, it's a social currency. The the currency of how things get done is how do we help each other out. And it's all based on relationships and networks and, my ability to help you, your ability to help me, patronage, all of those sort of things that we we just don't get because that's not our culture at all. So it's easy to be like, oh, he just wanted to do them a a favor.

What a bad guy. It's like, well, no. He wanted to do them a favor because he can't govern if they're not on his side. And the way you help, you know, get people on your side is, like, you help them meet their goals. They help you meet your goals.

And so Yeah. Could've spent more time there. And I think, you know, if I kept the sermons as two instead of just one sermon, I would've dug more into Paul's conversations with Felix over those two years. Because one of the ways I think God was working in those two years that I left out was there's he was giving Felix the gracious opportunity to repent and to come to Jesus over the course of he for two years, he had Paul there with him to ask questions and talk about these sort of things. And so, yeah, Paul nothing's happening for Paul, except he's getting these opportunities to talk with Felix to make potentially a huge difference, in the life of the whole province by, one of the governors coming to faith in Jesus.

Doesn't happen, but it was God's gracious, provision during that time. For sure. Yeah. I had that same thought. I think something that just comes to mind that is hard to wrap our head around is just how how intricately connected the religious system and the, political systems are.

And it's just not something we relate to in the West. It's separation of church and state. And I know it's not everybody's experience in the world, but, like, that I think to me, it is just so hard to wrap my head around how, yeah, how they can just be it just seems, like, messy. I'm like, you don't have jurisdiction here, but they totally felt like they don't because it was messing with their systems. Right?

Yep. Yeah. The the separation of church and state or even the idea that religion, is separate is personal, private, and independent of political commitments or social commitments. It's like that. That is completely foreign to the biblical time period.

That's a that's a new invention development post enlightenment. Yeah. We live in it. We're like, come on. You know, it should be a government case versus right.

It's all it's all woven together. It's all woven together. Mhmm. And God has worked within the political system and within kings and with like Yeah. He he has set up a lot of individuals within a political system to work.

And so, like, I think he's happy to work in that space. And, like, I think with the birth of Jesus, we just see it is as much, in the, like, the heavenly realm as it ends in, like, the earthly political realm. Like, both are, like, such active players in just the birth of Christ. Right? So I feel like why are we surprised that it just, like, it continues being close.

I don't know. It's it's hard to think our way into the perspective of someone for whom social, economic, political, and religious identities are all the same. They're all intertwined. Mhmm. Because for us, those inhabit such very different spheres.

I think what's interesting with all the historical stuff that we just talked about is God is actually working in the circumstances around Paul, whether he's seeing it or not. And our perspective is so myopic. It's so self centered is not the right word for it, except it is so, like, the only world I experience is the world I experience. Right? I don't know what's going on in other people's hearts and minds or or around, you know, on the other side of the world.

And yet god is working in all of those things, and, he's also working, like, in me. Yeah. And that's that's kinda what matters. And, you know, at the very end of the sermon, it was like, hey. Do we want god to work and change the circumstances around us, or do we want us to change us?

And we want him to change us. And we want him to change us, because that's the promise is that we'll be conformed to the image of Christ. The promise isn't that the circumstances around us will always be, conducive to our emotional equanimity. Yeah. And and we just often choose preference knowing, yes, we know the truth that, like, god changing us is, for our best, but it can be painful.

So we often prefer for ask for him to change the circumstances. Right? Because Mhmm. Changing us is not, like, I can't think of the time when it's usually easy. No.

I haven't I don't know. I don't know. I've never experienced an easy change. Yeah. Right?

It's like yeah. I know. You go you go to the gym or you go for a run, and you know at the end of it, you're gonna be sore and tired. But that's how you grow. And then when it comes to our personal relationship with Jesus, our spiritual growth, we're like, but I don't I don't wanna it shouldn't be hard.

But I, you know, I've been thinking about this recently because, I was talking with some other friends about this. And the people who know Jesus best and who are most like him are almost always the people who have suffered and lost the most. Yeah. Actually, I can think of one person that stands out in my mind, and I told her recently. I'm like, when I think of someone like Jesus, it's you, and I know what it took To get there.

To to get there, to make you that person. And Yeah. And I don't want any of that. Think yeah. I wanna be like Jesus, and I wanna be close to him and close to God, and I don't want to go through anything that it takes to get there.

And can it happen through osmosis? Right? Yes, please. If I just open my Bible, it just refreshes. Can't I come to know you more through your blessing?

Yeah. Through the American dream? Isn't the achievement of the American dream the best way to get to know God? Yep. Okay.

Yeah. Alright. We should stop there. Okay. Thanks, Joey.

Thanks for your time. Yeah. You're welcome. Of course. Looking forward to, well, Ash Wednesday.

Tonight, if you're listening to this right away as soon as it drops. Mhmm. And then, just, taking us into the first, Sunday of Lent as we examine the parables of Jesus and how they subvert our expectations and understanding of who God is and how he works in the world. Yeah. Great.

Thank you, Joey. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Cut for Time. If you wish to submit questions to our pastors following their sermon, you can email them to podcastfaithliveitout dot org or text them into our faith church texting number, and we'll do our best to cover it in the week's episode.

If this conversation blessed you in any way, we encourage you to share with others. Thanks for listening. We'll be back again next week.