Hey. You're listening to Cut for Time, a podcast from Faith Church located on the North Side Of Indianapolis. My name is Claire Kingsley. Each week, I'll sit down with one of our preaching pastors to discuss their Sunday sermon. Cut for time is a look behind the scenes of sermon preparation and they'll share with us a few things that we didn't hear from the sermon on Sunday.

Thanks for listening. Good morning, Claire. I have my coffee. I have mine. You have your coffee?

Woah. Yours is in, like, a fancy mason jar with a straw. Mine is mine is in a Stanley. Also fancy. Yeah.

That's true. It's not one of the big, like, Stanley drink cups. It's it's a Stanley mug. When when everybody was really into the Stanley's, you know, a year ago before, we all switched to a Wallows or whatever it is. In.

Yeah. Jenna was like, you need a Stanley. So she got me this Stanley coffee cup. It is it looks nice. Alright.

Jumping in. Joey, you had, a cute little passage. It's cute only because it's little. Tiny but mighty. Yes.

Tiny but mighty passage that you preached from two verses in Matthew on the mustard seed. So give us a rundown from your sermon on Sunday, and then we'll see what you didn't cover of those two verses. Of those two verses. What was left? Yeah.

Yes. Surely, I said everything. Yeah. So we were looking at the parable of the mustard seed. It's called a parable even though, you know, technical linguistic analysis would call it a similitude because there's no plot.

There are no characters. It's just a you know, it's like a simile. It's you know, the kingdom of God is like, and then it's just a word picture, basically. But anyway, Jesus is saying, hey. The the the parable or the the kingdom of God, the kingdom of heaven, as it is recorded in Matthew, is like a mustard seed.

It's the smallest of all seeds, but once you plant it, it grows into something incredible that it can even become a shelter, for birds and for those who need refuge. And that is a a a picture, an image of the kingdom of God. So we've talked about how these parables, like, some act like doors, some act like windows, some act like mirrors. Right? And that and that's just that's from, a a book that our our kids' ministry is using and families are going through talking about what kind of a parable is this.

And this is definitely a window parable. It's giving a glimpse into a window into what the kingdom is really like. And the the the main point, I think, of the parable of the mustard seed is, that's small now, doesn't mean small forever when we're talking about seeds. Right? Small seed now is not going to be a small seed forever.

So small now does not mean small forever, especially when the power in the seed is the power of god. Right? And that's the thing about seeds is that there's nothing we can do to to make them grow. We can put them in a good environment, but we can't make them grow. There's a a life power, a potency in the seed, not in us.

And so that's what I I I wanted us to all walk away thinking about the kingdom of heaven is the kingdom of heaven may look small now, certainly during Jesus' time, but small now doesn't mean small forever. And it is going to grow because God's the one who's growing it because it's his power that's in the seed, not ours. We get to be part of it, but we're not the ones making it grow. Because never. Okay.

I wanna just pull something out of what you just said. You categorized this these verses as a similitude Yes. Because there are no characters or plot. Are all, all similitudes are parables, but not all parables are similitudes or even, like, similitudes really aren't parables. Does that make sense?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If we use, parable as a broader statement or a broader category of saying, hey.

Something is like something else. Generally, like, the full sense of the word parable, we just need it's a story about how something that is used to demonstrate that something is like something else. And and a similitude does the same thing. It just doesn't have the story component to it. So nontechnical terms, yeah.

Yeah. It's parable. Right? There's proverbs. There's parables.

There's stories with a point or a moral or a lesson. Linguistically, when you're trying to break down and analyze the way language works, this is one that would technically be called a similitude. So Okay. Cool. Yeah.

Thanks for that nugget. Yeah. Alright. So I have a question for you. The week that you were preparing to preach, you had, emailed me and said, hey.

I'm switching the text. It was originally, you were gonna be preaching from Mark, and then you switched to speak from the verses in Matthew. I'm just curious what brought about that change. Yeah. The reason I changed is because in in Mark's version, Mark's version of it so I mentioned in the sermon.

Right? Matthew, Mark, Luke, all three contain a version of the parable of the mustard seed. So it was one of Jesus' sort of, you know, go to analogies for it. I mean and these plants are just like everywhere in Israel. They're even everywhere in The United States, but they're, classed as an invasive species like a weed here in The US because, anyway, so each one tells it, like, a little bit a little bit differently.

And Mark's version, he doesn't use the word tree. He uses the word just, like, becomes greater than all herbs, like vegetable. Right? So he's it's he's a little more specific. I picked Matthew.

Luke does this too, so that could have worked as well. But I picked, Matthew because he uses the word tree, and, I wanted to, it just it has a slightly clear connection with the Old Testament imagery. At different times, you know, if you're gonna tell the same story over and over again, you're gonna use different vocabulary. You're gonna use different ways of explaining. You may have the same point, each time you you use that story, each time Jesus talked about the mustard seed.

You know, he's kinda has the main point. The kingdom of God is like something that starts out tiny and insignificant and because it becomes something incredibly, huge in a place of shelter and refuge. I just thought I I liked kind of the Matthew version a little bit better and, decided to use use that one. Okay. So it shows up in Matthew, Mark, and Luke.

Mhmm. And how many other parables show up in all three of these gospels? Yeah. There are so these three gospels, Matthew, Mark, and Luke, we call the synoptic gospels. And synoptic is a a word that means they see the same way or see in this in the same manner.

And Matthew, Mark, and Luke are really similar in the way they're kinda laid out, the language that they use, the stories even have identical wording in them because they're kinda pulling from, like, a common written source or or things like that, whereas John is very different. So Matthew, Mark, Luke, the synoptic gospels, seven parables show up in all three of the synoptic gospels. Yeah. What do you think that says about those seven? Anything is anything, or is that going too far?

I it says that they were a key part of Jesus' teaching ministry. Like, that these were key analogies, key similitudes, parables that he used in different places at different times with different people, to to really make kinda make his point. And so, for for these three guys, like, yeah, all three of them really showed up as as unique. But they're but each each of the synoptic gospels has other unique parables. I think Mark has two.

Luke has almost 20. So, yeah, the ones that are, like, in all three are let me find the list a list again. So, one that we we kinda debate even, is this one a parable or not? But one that's in all three is is you're the light of the world. City set on a hill can't be hidden or they light a lamp and put it under a basket.

That shows up, in Matthew, Mark, and Luke. But it's not introduced with the parable. Yeah. Probably. You know, the we've got the new cloth and the old garment, the new wine, and the old wineskins.

Yep. Again, we have some debate about whether that should be a parable or if that's a a more of a illustrative story, but, again, plot, not plot, but the sower. You know, a sower went out to sow and some seed fell on three different kinds of ground. That's in all three Right. And the explanation.

And then the mustard seeds in all three and the, the wicked land over owner, and the fig tree. Look at the fig tree. It's in all three. Okay. So you just mentioned one of those was the the seed and the sower.

Yeah. And so, you know, you you were talking a little bit about maybe what you didn't get time to talk about, and that's just, like, the, there are few seed metaphors in the parables or even just, like, agricultural references. Right. Should we be keeping these like, should we see relation between them, or are we supposed to, like, keep them as separate teaching? Right.

No. That's a really good question, because it's tempting in each of the the parables that involve seeds to kind of read the meaning of all of them into each and every one. Right? So in this one, the the the the the message is the kingdom of God is like a mustard seed, which is the smallest of all seeds and then becomes a huge tree. Right?

That's the full lesson. So if we start pulling in from other places, other ideas about seeds and then saying, no. The real point of it is, you know, the seed that's being sown is the word from this the parable of the sower, and therefore, the kingdom of God is like someone sowing a seed into it's like, well, that's using that's also talking about seeds, but it's making a different point out of it. It's making different point than it is here. Right?

Or, you know, unless a grain of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it doesn't yield any fruit. So Jesus is the seed that's being sown and grows into the kingdom. Well, it's true about the seed and Jesus is the seed over in John when John is saying if, you know, unless a grain of wheat fall to the ground and die, it doesn't yield any fruit, but that's not the point here. So it's you know, at the very end of the sermon, I think when I came back up for a cup for time not cup for time. For the closing comments, it's like, hey.

Seed metaphor show up all over the place. Right? But this one, like, we wanna read its one message and not try to add more things to it from the other parables. Like, those other parables are teaching true things, and these will be true things that we're adding into it, but we are focusing on just the one true thing that this parable is trying to get across. Yep.

Not looking for and people have looked for extra meaning in it, you know, because so a man went you know, like, Jesus says here, I've got it. It's the smallest of, it's like a grain of mustard seed that a man took and sowed in his field. Who's the man? What's the field? The man is Jesus, and he's sowing the seed of the kingdom in the field of the nations.

No. That the point is not that Jesus is like a man who sows a seed. The point is that the kingdom of God is like a mustard seed that when planted grows. Right? So it's it's it's easy to I mean, parables, there's such beautiful short little, you know, nuggets of of wisdom and truth that we wanna dig in and try to pull as many different things out of them and as many different associations as we can, and that makes it really easy to lose kinda the actual main point.

Yeah. Yes. Alright. So in those verses, it says in verse 32, though it's the smallest of seeds, yet when it grows, it's the largest of garden plants and becomes a tree. And so you had said in your sermon, it's not small forever.

Right? Yeah. So we had a texted in question that said, says, is it possible that God's kingdom has already come to full size, but is invisible heavenly? Do you think about that? It really depends on what we think the kingdom is that we're waiting for.

So there's a branch of theology that says the kingdom that we're waiting for is a the literal rule of God over the earth, through the people of Israel in their in the land of Israel. Right? And that we're waiting for that, literal on earth kingdom. And if if that's what we think of when we think of the kingdom of God and that that's what Jesus was offering when he came. And then when he was rejected by the Jewish people, then he kinda went to plan b and started the church.

And now we're just waiting for kinda plan b to do its evangelistic work, and then Jesus will come back and he'll he'll go back to plan a, but this time he'll do it by force instead of by sacrifice. If that's what we mean that we're waiting for for the kingdom, then we're we're stuck in this thing of, like, well, okay. So there isn't a there isn't a kingdom on earth right now because Jesus isn't ruling as god over the people of Israel and ruling the nations. So, therefore, it must be a heavenly reality, and that well, okay. So, yeah, it's full size in heaven, but it's not full size here on earth yet.

There's other perspectives on kingdom that take it as entirely metaphorical. It is simply spiritual. It's a analogy or an allegory for, Jesus's rule in my life. So the kingdom, exists to the extent that every you know, any and every individual has submitted themselves to the lordship or the rule of Jesus in their lives or the kingship of Jesus in their lives. And so the kingdom is present in me.

Right? And we have you know, Jesus says the kingdom is in you. Right? So the kingdom is present in me to the extent that I submit myself to to Jesus. But but, again, there's other ways of looking at it too that are okay.

The the kingdom is, yes, wherever God rules and and reigns in a in a literal way, but also it is in and through Jesus and in and through his his people living lives of kingdom value, living lives of, you know, kingdom righteousness out into the world, not just in the decisions they make them you know, not just in their own moral state, but also how they live and enact justice in the world around them. So in that case, we have to to try to remember that the church was not plan b, was not like an afterthought after Israel rejected Jesus. The church is how and this is what Paul argues in Galatians of the church is how Abraham gets the worldwide family that he was promised all the way back in Genesis 15. You know, family that covers the earth as the waters cover the sea or or a, a family like, you know, all descendants like all the, stars you can see in the sky or all the sand on on the seashore. So the church you know, Paul talks about different ways.

We're grafted in. We're we're adopted into the family. We are part of the family of god by faith. Right? The church is the kingdom of god.

It's the manifestation of the kingdom of god on earth now while we're also still yet waiting for the fullness of the kingdom to come. Jesus taught us to pray, thy will be done, you know, on earth as it is in heaven. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. So we are we are living in the kingdom now waiting for the fullness of the kingdom to come, but we are not, like, waiting so much for the kingdom to come from heaven down onto onto or we're not waiting for us to go up to the kingdom of heaven. We're waiting for heaven and earth to be reunited.

That's the full kingdom that we're waiting for, the kingdom that exist in the very beginning before the fall and that will, again, exist in the end for all of eternity. And each of us individual followers of Jesus and our gatherings of followers of Jesus in the church are the places where the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of earth have come together once again, where heaven and earth have come together through the indwelling spirit in each of us. We are where heaven meets earth, and our job is to be these little microcosms of kingdom life as individuals and kingdom community as churches showing what the kingdom is like for people who haven't yet experienced it, you know, or who are on the outside of the kingdom. So I I don't that was a long answer to a short question, but, hopefully, that's that's a little bit helpful. Yeah.

I mean, I when I read the question, I thought that could go in a lot of like, a variety of directions. Is there a right answer? You're like you gave us all these different you know, you could take it this way. You could take it this way. They could take it this way.

I'm guessing it's not an essential view. And so, like, in the EFCA, we, like, can disagree there in that space. Is that true? Absolutely. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. Absolutely. We can we major on the majors. This is there's there's different, you know, the which direction you come down depends on what you think about certain passages and the kind of the the assumptions that go into reading those and what you think is meant by different words even and the the use of those words across scripture.

And it's it's a big super complicated, like, Gordian's knot tangle of. But the main thing is the kingdom is where God rules and reigns, and heaven is God's space. Heaven is wherever God is. And so he is, by definition, ruling and reigning where he is. So, yeah, the kingdom in heaven, the kingdom of heaven, the kingdom of God are synonymous terms in in in Matthew.

Matthew likes both of them, when he's talking when he's relaying Jesus's teachings to us. You know? So Jesus used both. Matthew uses both. And, yeah.

Yeah. So where God is, the kingdom is. And God is in us. The kingdom is in us. Right.

And we're waiting for the kingdom to come to Earth fully, at the end of all things. Yes. Okay. Joey, last question. Does reading this passage in Lent or yeah.

I was reading this passage in Lent hit us differently than if we were reading it outside of this season. Mhmm. Right. Because this is the season of reflection, repentance, acts of love, prayer, fasting, and anticipation of Good Friday and Easter. I I think where my mind goes with that question is the smallest of all things, the the literal least inauspicious, ineffective beginning of something is the death of its leader.

Right? Right. That a a seed, a mustard seed is so tiny. Right? And and we tried to read this, passage a little bit in context of, you know, the people Matthew wrote it to who would read it first.

Like, what what were they experiencing? Right? There were so few of them. There and there was there was there there were so few Christians at the time so discouraged by the smallness of this, encouraged by and excited by the life that they were experiencing and the community that was being built, but but discouraged by the smallness of it and also dealing with trying to tell the people that they loved that the the Jesus they follow, the God they follow, the Messiah they follow was someone who was killed. And when they're like, yeah.

Kingdoms don't begin with the death of the king. They're like, well, have you ever looked at a mustard seed? Right? It's the tiniest of all possible beginnings. So I think in Lent, the the passage does remind us not just of the end of the analogy that it will grow into this massive, tree that is going to provide shade and shelter for all the the weary.

Reading it in Lent gives us the chance to focus on the beginning, the tininess of the seed, the the ignominy of sacrifice of of death, and then how that that seed, that gift turned into resurrection life, which is, of course, what we're gonna where we're gonna go on Easter. Right? Yeah. Thanks, Joey. Appreciate your time today.

Absolutely. Absolutely. It was great. Alright. Back to my coffee.

Back again next week. You preaching again next week. Yeah. This Sunday, we're preaching through the parable of the unforgiving servant. So it's Jesus' well, it's a famous question of Jesus.

Like, how many times do I have to forgive? Like, seven? I mean, that's the perfect number. So is that the is that right? And Jesus is like, no.

Let me tell you a story. K. I can't wait. We'll dig into that this weekend. Okay.

Thanks, Joey. Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Cut for Time. If you wish to submit questions to our pastors following their sermon, you can email them to podcast@faithliveitout.org or text them into our faith church texting number. And we'll do our best to cover it in the week's episode. If this conversation blessed you in any way, we encourage you to share it with others.

Thanks for listening. We'll be back again next week.