Jon Moss - The Remarkable Business Show - Episode 9.mp3 Jon Moss: [00:00:00] This is the Remarkable Business Show on remarkable.fm Jon Moss: [00:00:03] Im Jon Moss and this is episode 9. Jon Moss: [00:00:19] Welcome to the show and it's good to be back. The last episode went out about 15 months ago so I am hanging my head in shame here and so a big apology for this rather lengthy gap. Why has this been I hear you ask?! Well two things - one I've been working on a work contract which has kept me rather busy and two, an incredible amount of travel which has been eye-opening and amazing. Jon Moss: [00:00:44] Before I go into the travel there are a couple of important things I'd really like to cover. Jon Moss: [00:00:50] Firstly this episode is dedicated to someone who recently passed away. Richard Wanderman. Richard was a good friend. He was better than that. He was an awesome friend. We met via flickr and photography back in 2007 on the Canon Digital SLR forums and we got on really well. We started emailing we started talking and I was coming over to New York in the summer of 2007. He invited me to come and stay. He lives a couple of hours north of New York City. Richard and his wonderful wife Anne made me so welcome. We spent many enjoyable days taking photos geeking out talking about tech and Apple. Jon Moss: [00:01:28] I've got some incredibly good memories of that time and we met again in 2014 when visiting New York and although we were thousands of miles apart we got really close. We emailed we face timed a. I always enjoyed the conversations that we had. He was he was so kind wise generous and someone I looked up to deeply admired and respected. He was diagnosed with a brain tumor in December and he's been in treatment since. And sadly he left us a few days ago. Jon Moss: [00:02:00] So this episode is dedicated to you Richard. Going to really really miss you. Richard is someone who always gave me wise counsel who is very very encouraging about a lot of things I did and he was especially encouraging about something that I decided to do 10 years ago and that was creating Hull Digital, the cities' tech community. I created a meetup group back in January 2009 and started a website and basically said if anyone's interested come along to a coffee shop to say hello and meet some like minded people interested in all things digital and tech and 20 people came along to that and the rest is history as they say. Jon Moss: [00:02:39] The meetup group grew to over 1200 members. I hosted 185 meet ups and also founded East Yorkshire's tech conference, HDLive. From all of this I was approach to make the cities' innovation and coworking space a reality and the C40 I was born and I worked on this for three years. I've written a little more about the experience of founding the tech community in the city and some very important things that I learnt so head on over to mossy.co.uk and search for Hull Digital and you'll find a post there. Jon Moss: [00:03:15] As I mentioned earlier 2018 was the year of adventure. So 12 countries and cities including Lisbon, Girona, Prague, Milan, Warsaw, Kracow, Zurich, Munich, Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Hong Kong, Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, Bangkok and of course Chiang Mai. Jon Moss: [00:03:32] For those of you listen to Episode 8 I talked about spending some time in Chiang Mai, Northern Thailand. Well I liked it so much I went back last year with my partner and luckily she loved it as much as I did. We were joined by the Bear Grylls of the Welsh valleys, Mr Lewis who had come to Chiang Mai on my recommendation and luckily he really enjoyed being there. We spent a jam-packed three weeks working in punned space one of the main coworking spaces in the city and enjoying the wonderful way of life that you have out there. After returning to the UK my partner and I decided we would go again over the winter and so we are just back from spending a few months in Asia. We visited Malaysia ,Singapore and ended the trip in Hong Kong staying at the excellent Hotel Icon and managed to catch up with an old friend Richard Hatter who is the general manager there. So if you want a great hotel in Hong Kong check it out. Jon Moss: [00:04:25] Now for a bit of honesty - its been a bit of a struggle settling back into what you could call normal life for one the weather. We probably came back a little early and hit the cold winter snap - a 30 degree temperature difference is no laughing matter and also its very notable the way people behave here is very different to in Asia. It always amazes me that people over there have very little. Yet always willing to give you anything. It seems to be the other way round here. I think we've got a lot to learn. Jon Moss: [00:04:54] Then we also have the small matter of the B word. Im not going to go into this in much detail by wanting make it very clear I think Brexit is an utter embarrassment and we are doing the wrong thing for many reasons but on a lighter note we were blissfully away from all that nonsense while in Asia and we decided that the overriding feeling when living over there was that we felt younger yes younger and I'm no spring chicken. We had a scooter did over 1000 kilometers zooming around the city. You are taking your life into your own hands a little bit. But we were very sensible wore helmets and even had masks on because the pollution can be a little bit bad in some places. We ate incredible food for a very little. And we met some wonderful new friends. So a big hello to Stephen G and hello to Naaman family! We attended art classes, improved our Thai very slightly and even got invited to meet the head monk of northern Thailand and participate in a temple blessing ceremony with 500 locals which will be in our memories forever. That was pretty special. What we loved was just being in Chiang Mai. The simple thing were the best, like eating in the night market, buying fruit from a family roadside store or trying one of the many coffee shops and roaster's over there. Jon Moss: [00:06:05] And as you know I dont tolerate bad coffee. I have one friend who assures me that his coffee is palatable. Its not its instant and taste like brown upon water. You know who you are and this brings me on to the show's guest a man who knows a thing or two about good coffee and I admit it. I love coffee. In the UK 81 percent of people now visit a coffee shop weekly spending over 9 billion pounds a year in over 24000 outlets and it supports over 210000 jobs. Jon Moss: [00:06:38] So coffee is big business and its also something I love making every morning. My love of coffee probably comes from the time I was a barista in an Italian ski resort many years ago. It taught me the basics although there wasn't any latte art then. I'm super pleased to welcome an old friend to the show Steve Leighton. If you're into coffee you've probably heard of Steve and his company Hasbean. You might have listened to him or watched him online. Jon Moss: [00:07:07] Steve's the founder of Hasbean coffee and he's also the co-creator of temper tantrum, a platform for his constant bickering and brainstorming with Colin Harmon. He's the co owner of 3FE in Dublin and the co-owner of Drop Coffee in Stockholm. We actually recorded this conversation back in 2017. And so I picked up the phone a few weeks ago apologized profusely for the slight delay and asked his permission for recording this or making this recording public. Luckily Steve was very understanding. So please bare with us if there are a few things that are slightly out of date. I wanted to make sure I put this out as there is so much wonderful information about coffee and a terrific insight into how Steve has created a remarkable business. Jon Moss: [00:08:02] Well I am in a rather nice sound booth. Suddenly. Steve Leighton: [00:08:08] I know it's of cool this isn't it nice space. Jon Moss: [00:08:11] Very big thanks to the tenticle guy who let myself and my guest for the remarkable business show today is Steve Leighton so welcome Steve to the show. Steve Leighton: [00:08:24] Hello. Thank you and welcome to all those things and thank you for letting me be part of it. This is quite exciting although on trade descriptions you may get told off for using me in a remarkable or business podcast. Jon Moss: [00:08:37] Definetely not because you are a remarkable business and a remarkable person. Steve Leighton: [00:08:43] Remarkable for what though this is what you get in many things fashion I have no fashion sense. Running very bad runner yes. Steve Leighton: [00:08:55] I have all the Apple kit. Jon Moss: [00:08:57] And you actually, you sort of do do a bit in coffee. Steve Leighton: [00:09:01] I'm going to pull you up actually about one of your podcasts that you did about being one of the first people to have the Apple iPhone in the UK. Jon Moss: [00:09:08] Number one in the queue in the Sheffield Apple store. Steve Leighton: [00:09:11] Yeah you see I can beat you though because I got one it exported from the U.S. Before they were jail broken and all I had was a pretty brick. That's how mad I am about the Apple stuff. Jon Moss: [00:09:23] I was talking about the UK propper phone actually working. Steve Leighton: [00:09:28] I was the second in line at the Cannock store. Jon Moss: [00:09:31] So we were actually in similar positions on the same day. Steve Leighton: [00:09:33] We were, I was sat outside, I think it was a Vodafone shop. There are other phone shops available but I was sat outside. Jon Moss: [00:09:41] I had a deck chair I had taken it. Steve Leighton: [00:09:43] I was sat on the floor I wasn't that well prepared. Jon Moss: [00:09:46] With my friend Jamie it kind of came along and took me company and filmed me going in first, it is on YouTube. Steve Leighton: [00:09:55] Now you mention it, I think I may of seen it. [00:09:56] I am there. So I'm here with Steve Layton from Has Bean Coffee. Steve and I go back quite a way I reckon 2009. Steve Leighton: [00:10:09] I think it's earlier I think I was about 2007 or 2008. I think I seem to remember the first time we spoke. Jon Moss: [00:10:20] And I was originally just a fan and a customer and I think we started emailing. Steve Leighton: [00:10:25] Yes. Jon Moss: [00:10:26] So this was before Twitter but Twitter launched 2006. Steve Leighton: [00:10:31] I think I think we were pretty early adopters. I was a very early adopter Twitter and I know you were and I think a lot of it came from. Jon Moss: [00:10:40] I know my user number. Thirteen thousand five hundred and one. So that is quite early. Steve Leighton: [00:10:47] I don't think I was that early but I was I was fairly early and certainly I remember being one of the first in the coffee community because I was talking to myself for a long time. Jon Moss: [00:10:55] So it's a bit like that in the studio. Hello? Anyone there? And I think we started talking and then we did a little bit work together and I've always been a massive fan of what you do and I've come down to Stafford today for a bit of a road trip which has been great fun. Steve Leighton: [00:11:17] Everything is a road trip from Hull. Jon Moss: [00:11:19] No it's not. Steve Leighton: [00:11:20] You have to go from Hull to somewhere, you can't pass through Hull. Jon Moss: [00:11:25] Yes you can if you're going on the ferry which is fine which is great the ferry. We went the other week and we drove over drove over to Europe. We went on the overnight ferry in it's 15 minutes from where I live. So that's very handy right. Steve Leighton: [00:11:40] Hull is the posh man's Norwich. Jon Moss: [00:11:42] Okay. Steve Leighton: [00:11:42] So I have always viewed it. Jon Moss: [00:11:44] So have you been to Norwich? Steve Leighton: [00:11:44] Exactly, because she never needed to. You never pass through it and that's Hull a little bit. Jon Moss: [00:11:51] But you've been to Hull? Steve Leighton: [00:11:51] I have been to Hull. Jon Moss: [00:11:52] You came to see me back in 2009 and 2010 and you kindly sponsored Hull Digital Live, the tech conference I did back then. Steve Leighton: [00:12:01] You kindly stuck me in a little side room while all of the posh people talked in the big auditorium and I spoke in a little break out room. Jon Moss: [00:12:09] And I think if I remember rightly there wasn't a spare chair. Steve Leighton: [00:12:12] There wasn't. Jon Moss: [00:12:12] Because it was very packed and it was very popular. Steve Leighton: [00:12:13] I think people thought they were going to get free coffee. I think now is the main reason it was full I did disappoint them on many levels. But the free coffee thing also disappointed them on. Jon Moss: [00:12:25] You did do coffee. Steve Leighton: [00:12:26] Did I?. That's why they came then. Jon Moss: [00:12:28] Dale came up and you set up a machine. Steve Leighton: [00:12:29] That's right. Jon Moss: [00:12:29] And you made sure the conference had cracking coffee. Steve Leighton: [00:12:33] That's right. That's right. I remember now it's all flooding back. Jon Moss: [00:12:37] So you did do a road trip? Steve Leighton: [00:12:38] Did do a road trip. Yes came up and that's the only time I've been to Hull. Jon Moss: [00:12:43] Are you kidding. So are you going to come up again. Steve Leighton: [00:12:46] Yeah because you got relegated like Sunderland did so I dare say I'll be doing the game next season there. Jon Moss: [00:12:51] I'm not the world's foremost expert on football. Steve Leighton: [00:12:54] That's why we've not talked about it I understand, don't worry. If you talk about bikes and things that would be better. Jon Moss: [00:12:59] Bikes, cars, tech. Steve Leighton: [00:13:00] Yes indeed. Jon Moss: [00:13:01] We're all sorted. That'll be great. Jon Moss: [00:13:04] So it's lovely to see you again. We haven't seen each other for probably six seven years. Steve Leighton: [00:13:10] Yes. [00:13:11] We've always kept in touch. Steve Leighton: [00:13:12] Yes, I've always been watching from afar what you do. You are one of my early Twitter friends on there and Flickr as well, I see a lot of you. I love flicker. Jon Moss: [00:13:24] Still going on flickr. Steve Leighton: [00:13:24] You know it's like it's such a resource that's untapped by so many techie people. I feel. Flickr it's like it's basically a hard drive. I've lost a hard drive full of photos and I could have been distraught but I hadn't because I uploaded them to flickr and just download them all again and fixed the problem. Jon Moss: [00:13:43] That sounds like a good plan. Steve Leighton: [00:13:46] I love seeing your photos on Flickr. Jon Moss: [00:13:47] I think my Instagram ones go on there automatically via FTTT. And if people wonder what we're talking about I will put some links. Steve Leighton: [00:13:58] But Instagram, I don't follow you on Instagram I don't think I follow virtually nobody on Instagram but it's great that I pick them up on Flickr and that's the medium that I'd like to consume your stuff on. And that's why I think Flickr is good. Jon Moss: [00:14:11] Flick is great and it was 30 dollars a year, premium subscription, it's pretty it's pretty good. So we've always kept in touch which is fab but we haven't seen each other which is why I came down and I'm blown away by the Has Bean operation because I originally came down here for a visit 2008. It may be something around that with with Kate and we had a look round the roastery then which was what I thought was pretty big then but now you're huge. Steve Leighton: [00:14:43] You know, we're so not as well though I mean there's so many more roasteries out there that are big and there's so many more roasteries that are much smaller as well and the thing is is that the internet has turned this business into something that is very difficult to conceptualise the size. Because you know small businesses look big big businesses look small you know what and what it meant but it is it is it's a great space that we work in. I'm very lucky I designed it from the ground up six years ago. I actually visited an exporter in Guatemala that had got this beautiful cupping room that overlooked their warehousing space where they stored all the coffee and the inspiration came from that literally was there drawing pictures. I want to do this. And as soon as I came back off the plane I went to talk to my landlord and said like you've got that empty unit there, can I have it. And he was like yes and just literally you know splits and that's a lot of the way kind of done this space very dangerous way to do things but just not going to do that. I looked at the budget and thought yeah we've got 30 to 40 grand for that and as I was saying to you earlier. It came in at 150 grand and I was like oops! But then you get to the point where you just can't cut a corner you can't do anything different. So yeah the space is designed to be our roastery. In my mind how the workflow should be and I spent a lot of time thinking about workflow and how things come in and things go out. And if you look at it's like a horseshoe kind of weird shaped horseshoe. Steve Leighton: [00:16:09] But it's a horseshoe the way that coffee comes in gets roasted gets put into bags comes out and goes back out the door and it kind of works. Jon Moss: [00:16:17] It's a nice space and you very kindly gave me a tour earlier and we looked at you know whether you know you got wholesale orders going out you've got the consumer going out you've got the roastery you've got your offices as well you've got a lovely space looking over the roastery as you said with super comfy chairs and you've got loads of brewing equipment and that's when you do a lot of training for people. We talked about this a little earlier saying that people want to serve great coffee, they'll often buy great coffee but they then don't really do something great with it and that's where things can go horribly wrong. Steve Leighton: [00:16:50] I mean consistency is everything with good coffee it's kind of...if you think about if you were buying beer I know you don't drink, so it's a bad example but I'm going to use it and like you said oh just go and brew it all yourself. You go well that's not going to be very consistent with brewed beer but with coffee we quite often go here's the ingredients and go brew yourself you know on whatever brewing equipment you like on whatever setup and however you want to do it and with very little instruction so we do a lot of the training stuff with we've rolled out a programme with the SCA which is the Specialty Coffee Association of the world, used to be of Europe but they've combined with the American, so it's of the world. They do a certified programme of Barista and brewing and also roasting and we've started to roll that out not just to coffee shop owners and coffee shop baristas but also to home consumers so you can actually be a certified barista and don't know whether that's a good thing or a bad thing but you can have a certificate saying you're a barista even if you're just a home barista that wants to learn a little bit more. Jon Moss: [00:17:49] So maybe that's what I need to do because I only use my Aeropress at home at the moment but I've got Grand Designs for having a proper machine. Steve Leighton: [00:17:58] But definitely when you get that machine I would I would insist upon, because Sonali whose are qualified trainer to deliver the courses has got heaps of experience and has judged it like a competition level and can just help you get the very best out of the machines. Steve Leighton: [00:18:17] In fact one of the guys who works for us in dispatch. We were talking earlier about how difficult it is to get staff off Mike and Luke who's actually dating my sister as well which is a bit weird. Who also works for me but Luke knew nothing about coffee when he came to us and actually had very little interest he just wanted a job and he was putting things into envelopes and sending them out the door and he started to get a bit more interested in it and he was asking questions and stuff so I said, why don't you do the barista basic course and you'll learn some stuff. And he loved it was like a great incentive we'd got a space on the course anyway because somebody dropped out and it was like a day off work doing this stuff and then he came to me about a month later and said, I love that I said I really want to do the intermediate nature can I do that too. So he's gone on and done that and he had no brewing experience at all and actually no interest in coffee and he made me a cappuccino the other day was fantastic just because it's basic skills. Jon Moss: [00:19:09] And it makes all the difference. You can have great kit you can have great coffee but then you can kind of make some big mistakes or just not do it quite how it should be. And I mean are there any tips for people who want to just...maybe they've got a cafetiere maybe they're thinking about grinding or maybe they've bought ground or they're buying beans. What tips would you give someone at home who wants great coffee. Steve Leighton: [00:19:35] I'm going to be greedy and I'm going to do two instead of one. So the first thing is whatever level that you are drinking coffee, buy a grinder. Even if it's a cheap grinder. I don't like the blade grinders that chop the things up, I prefer a burr grinder. But honestly I prefer a chopped grinder over you buying pre-grain because it keeps so much of the freshness in the bean when you increase the surface area of coffee for the water to be in contact with it. Now that's how the flavour comes out because you haven't got much surface area when it's a bean but you're also increaseing the surface area so stuff can get out and as soon as you grind it that stuff's getting out. Steve Leighton: [00:20:08] So that would be number one. Second one would be measure stuff like the amount of times I brewed great coffee before I stewed with scales and I'd brew like have brewed like a cafetiere and it would be perfect and I go wow why was it perfect. I've got nothing to actually try and repeat that. So now I weigh out the coffee and I weigh out the water that I'm putting in and I time things and sometimes keeping little notes particularly for trying to find the best out of a brew can just be, wow, these things cam together and they're awesome and I did this weight of coffee to this weight of water so this ratio and this amount to brew time I'm going to try that again but maybe a little bit more coffee and a little less water and a little more was it like you've got something to tweak whereas if you just have that God shot and it you can't repeat it because you've got no parameters to repeat it with. Jon Moss: [00:20:56] What did I do then? And then you think yeah I can't remember what I did. Steve Leighton: [00:21:00] Exactly exactly. So you know it's like you wouldn't make a recipe for a cake and not write down, I use two eggs and you know this amount of flour and things and brewing coffee is no different. If that cake is delicious you want to re-bake that cake the same way next time and the same with coffee. Jon Moss: [00:21:15] That sounds very good. There are some top tips there completely free of charge. Steve Leighton: [00:21:21] Well actually I'll invoice you later,. Jon Moss: [00:21:23] Ok that's fine. Jon Moss: [00:21:24] And if people want to learn a bit more you've actually got something online called Coffee 101. Steve Leighton: [00:21:29] You're just trying to big yourself up here Jon. Jon Moss: [00:21:32] I'd actually forgotten a little bit about this. Steve Leighton: [00:21:34] Yeah yeah, he's bigging himself up here. So coffee 101 is a 10 step email introduction to brewing good coffee at home and it gives you the basics of where coffee is grown. [00:21:44] You know, how to brew, what natural or washed means what varietals me [5.7] and it was inspired by Jon who was doing a...you would do doing a I think it was a 10 day course. Jon Moss: [00:21:56] Transform your marketing. Steve Leighton: [00:21:57] Transform your marketing and how it did. Steve Leighton: [00:22:02] And I always sign up to stuff that you do I am currently signed up to your excellent newsletter that people can sign up on the appleofmyi with an i not an eye. Jon Moss: [00:22:08] .com/newsletter, you can get to it there. Steve Leighton: [00:22:08] We still have the plugin, we're awesome at this aren't we. But no. Steve Leighton: [00:22:18] So I set up this you suggested that could be a good thing for coffee and we've had thousands and thousands if not tens of thousands of people signed up to that newsletter and we promise not to spam because we're good people like Jon too but it's really just get you interested in what coffee can be and where there's a few voucher codes embedded in there as well for you to get some discounted coffee. Jon Moss: [00:22:37] And the history of coffee. Steve Leighton: [00:22:37] There's also the history of coffee. Jon Moss: [00:22:40] How it came about. Steve Leighton: [00:22:41] Exactly and I redid it recently so we reupped the site because it [3.0] did look awful but also went back to the content and it was amazing. I thought we'd have to rewrite everything here. It didn't have to rewrite I just had to update it a little bit it was actually really solid good information I was like who wrote this It can't possibly be me. Jon Moss: [00:22:58] It was you, many years ago. Steve Leighton: [00:22:58] Well, it may have been copy and paste I can't remember. Jon Moss: [00:23:03] No. I like all the top tips are great and the history of coffee and where coffee comes from is so important and this is something you've really kind of almost taken to a different level over the past few years. Going to the places where you are getting your coffee and your passports fairly well stamped. Steve Leighton: [00:23:19] 127 flights last year. Jon Moss: [00:23:22] Oh my gosh. Steve Leighton: [00:23:23] I'm up to forty three so far since January 1st this year and it's what, May. Jon Moss: [00:23:28] So where have you been this year? Steve Leighton: [00:23:30] I've been to Kenya, I've been to Costa Rica. I've been to Guatemala, I've been to El Salvador to Nicaragua. I'm going to Ethiopia next week. Been to a lot of place and I'm getting a bit dizzy. I think..I'm a foodie. I know you're into your food in a big way too and like for me the story is always enhanced when I know where my food's come from. Steve Leighton: [00:23:53] So knowing about the farmer, knowing about you know how he treats the animals on the farm how he treats the people who work with him. Stuff like that is vitally important to me I really want to know that stuff. I think coffee is no different people want to know that it's not just a commodity that there are people behind it. There are real people who are not necessarily doing badly either. Like this story of you know the poor farmer with his sandals and his donkey you know and climbs up the hill. It's not necessarily the case a lot these guys are landowners who are doing do very well but actually looking after the people who work for them. Looking after the environment looking after so many different things and that's always been my inspiration so much so I was telling you earlier I'm nearly at the end of writing a book which is called [00:24:36] Coffeeography [0.3] which is basically an autobiography of all of the producers that we buy in from not all of them but a lot of them. Jon Moss: [00:24:42] You got to know quite a few of them because you're buying from them every year and you've helped them actually create their you know do what they do with the crop and how... Steve Leighton: [00:24:53] It's going to be going over 40 producers that are in there and I haven't gone to everybody and and it really is like, everybody's got a unique story and that's what I've always tried to get across with the way that we buy our coffees, I want that unique story to come across just as I want the unique story of the amazing piece of beef I buy from a Staffordshire farmer that's 10 miles down the road who I see going past on his tractor. Everybody wants that story but coffee is different because we can't grow it in this country. So I see it is my job to be the conduit to get that story here so people understand it. Jon Moss: [00:25:24] And I think that that's sounds fantastic and I totally agree with that. I look at it that too many brands and companies are utterly anonymous and there's a good saying that the facts tell stories sell and we're not all about just capitalism and selling. Stories are good and you know even to it I'm a big fan of a brand called MacNair and they make mountain shirts and I went over to meet the person who made my shirt, Josie over in Huddersfield and met Natalie who is involved in the brand and it's great and yes you can pay a little bit more but you know it's actually going to someone who really really cares and that's it it's amazing isn't it. Steve Leighton: [00:26:09] It is the same but I think there's a reason that brands become an anonymous and in lots of ways I'm very jealous of those brands. So if I could go back and start again would I have put myself so front and center of Has Bean you know we have been Has Bean Steve so much I dont know. Jon Moss: [00:26:25] But would it have be seen as successful? Steve Leighton: [00:26:27] I dont know either, but the thing is is like I see why people do that because brands are very expandable. Look at that battery case thing that you've got there is very beautifully put together its lovely and you can produce that anywhere in the world and it doesn't matter about the person behind it that's expandable. Whereas I'm not expandable and I am currently so thinly spread doing many many things its really difficult so I understand why the brands go for that approach of you know of anonymising it because. Jon Moss: [00:26:53] They can scale. Steve Leighton: [00:26:54] Yeah because yeah because everybody thinks that I'm still roasting all the coffee and I'm still packing it all. Jon Moss: [00:26:59] You're not? Steve Leighton: [00:27:00] I'm not. It's a terrible wicked lie. Jon Moss: [00:27:02] You're kidding me. Steve Leighton: [00:27:04] The thing is, I've never purported that lie. Steve Leighton: [00:27:05] I've never actually said I've done those things people just assumed that I do everything because I'm the face on Twitter and the face on Instagram and yeah I made it a very personal brand like we were talking earlier about my Instagram I took a picture of my son at the stadium of light. You know, that's not very coffee related is it. Jon Moss: [00:27:21] No that's about you. Steve Leighton: [00:27:22] It's about me but I don't see my Instagram is any different to it being me because Has Bean is me and I am Has Bean. But that has its downfalls. Jon Moss: [00:27:34] You can do anything you can't do everything which you talked about earlier as well and you know there's a choice with what you do and I think you've got to that point in the business you were saying that you can't do it all that you declared e-mail bankruptcy last year. Steve Leighton: [00:27:49] I did. Jon Moss: [00:27:49] You know email is actually a task list made by someone else for you. That's my opinion of email. Steve Leighton: [00:27:55] So I enjoyed your newsletter bit about that very much. Because I do have a problem with it. I got to a point that I was getting 450 emails a day. Jon Moss: [00:28:05] A day? Steve Leighton: [00:28:06] And I was dealing with them all I was answering every single one but all I was was an email monkey and it tied me up and it burnt me out. I mean we have Zendesk which is a platform that email feeds into and you can assign to different people and I was running pretty much most of that up until 2011/2012. Jon Moss: [00:28:25] That's not sustainable. Steve Leighton: [00:28:27] And I had to step away I couldn't do it anymore because like you know email is hard because people can be really really rude and really horrible and not think that there's somebody on the other end that's taking it personally. And I have a huge problem with that because I'm terrible at taking criticism and no I don't do everything right but I'm even worse at taking criticism for the producers with buying in from. So somebody emails in says, "that coffee was horrible and it was disgusting and I didn't like it". I can take that I might have messed it up but I can't take it as a producer messed up because I know they didn't. And it may be that it just wasn't to their taste and stuff and I had to step away because I was getting upset. Steve Leighton: [00:29:05] It was making me sad that people can just say those things without thinking about the repercussions of other people's feelings and thoughts. Jon Moss: [00:29:13] And you've managed to change this now and you have almost got better in terms of spending your time on things that really provide value to you and the business. Steve Leighton: [00:29:24] Yes, I mean there are some things that I can't give to other people so for instance selecting green coffee and going out to meet the producers and managing those relationships you [00:29:31] can't farm off somebody to manage relationships for you like kids. [3.5] You can't have an assistant that does that because you know the producers that we're buying from. The only reason we get the good coffees that we have is because we've worked with them for many years and I spent Christmas at one of our producer's house a couple of years ago because we're mates you now. So I love that part of my job actually. The bigger that got the less I couldn't do the other stuff here so you can't manage a team in Stafford when you're in El Salvador. No it's impossible. So I've had to get the team to manage themselves to a certain extent but also I fought it for a long time but we didn't have a hierarchy. You know everybody just did their thing and it's cool and aren't we great and you know yeah we'd driven the hip thing and nobody's in charge. Somebody needs to be in charge, really badly! Jon Moss: [00:30:18] It works up to a point and you can give people...I'm a big believer in giving people [5.3] the responsibility. Steve Leighton: [00:30:24] Autonomy is completely different to giving them free rein, you know, and not have any repercussions for that free rein. So we've been very good at making sure people own their departments so they can make their own decisions. And I always support them. I always say that as long as you can justify the decision you made to me afterwards. Even if it is burn the roastery down and your mythology for burning the roastery down was that he'd save the planet and it was true and you thought it was true then I will support it. You know it's got to be you've got to let people do their job but they also need to know where to go to when they're out of their depth and that's what we didn't have people around my, I don't want to say senior management but they knew they could come to me with stuff. But the people below that because they were all doing their thang didn't feel that they could go anywhere but to me and if I'm not there that wasn't a good thing so putting this structure in place so people know that you know people help and support and not judge because they dont know how to do something is a superb thing and we humans we love that stuff. We love to know where to go to if we can do stuff. You know it's like having a tech support line is a good thing. Jon Moss: [00:31:32] It really is. And talking of kind of tech I suppose and the Internet how have you started out Has Bean as a business the roastery, the first roastery. [10.3] Steve Leighton: [00:31:43] 2003. Jon Moss: [00:31:45] And you actually. Steve Leighton: [00:31:45] And that was in the back of my garrage at home, so. Jon Moss: [00:31:48] Your story up to that and past that you were doing something slightly different. Steve Leighton: [00:31:53] Yeah, yeah you could say that was locking people up. Jon Moss: [00:31:56] On a regular basis. Steve Leighton: [00:31:57] On a regular basis I was a prison officer. Steve Leighton: [00:31:59] So at seven years old I decided I wanted to be a prison officer. Not because I knew any prison officers, not because I'd ever seen a prison. I didn't really know what a prison was but I loved porridge, the TV programme. Jon Moss: [00:32:12] And that was it was, your career was set. Steve Leighton: [00:32:14] And I decided at seven that I was going to be a prison officer and then went out and found out what a prison officer was and spent a long time trying to get in. So when you're 16 and leave school you can't be a prison officer. So I went and worked in mental health for seven years as an unqualified nurse and loved that absolutely loved it worked in a secure unit for the criminally mentally ill had great times there really enjoyed it. Steve Leighton: [00:32:37] During the prison service after many years of trying to get in finally got in and within a week realised I hated it. Yeah yeah. You've got to be a special kind of person to lock up another human being and it not affect you. Jon Moss: [00:32:49] And you do that for a while though. Steve Leighton: [00:32:50] I did, I started in 1997 and I didn't leave until Christmas Eve 2008 and this was my last shift. Jon Moss: [00:32:58] And it was during your time working in the prison service that your love of coffee was ignited. Steve Leighton: [00:33:07] I'd always been a coffee fan so again at seven years old I made another decision and that was that I asked my mum for a filter coffee maker for Christmas which is a bit weird for a seven year old. Jon Moss: [00:33:16] Just a bit. Steve Leighton: [00:33:17] A bid weird for a mum to let you do that as well. My mum was very good and always let me do whatever I wanted. Jon Moss: [00:33:22] Thank you mum. Steve Leighton: [00:33:25] We used to have a shop in Wolverhampton called Snapes which was a very olde worlde oak lined wrapped things in brown paper kind of place you know like. Jon Moss: [00:33:35] Pre Harry Potter. Steve Leighton: [00:33:38] Pre Harry Potter. I was obsessed with it because when you walked past there was smoke that came to the floor and I like smoke as a 7 year old you know you kind of like fire and smoke and stuff. And there he got a roaster there that he was roasting the coffee and we used to go ice skating once a month in Wolverhampton and we walked past on the way to the bus and I was like, I would like to go in there and I used to follow him around and bother him and ask him lots of stupid questions. But then hit teenager years, I found girls and white lightnin parks to sit in. I know I know, I'm from Cannock. You can take the boy out of Cannock, but you can't take the Cannock out of the boy. And then ended up getting a job and ended up working nights and found coffee again as a fuel. Much more than a flavour. But then the more I got into it because I've always been flavour obsessed, I got more and more into it. I was exporting green beans from the U.S. to roast at home and sat there one night in the prison thinking I didn't want to do this anymore. Why am I buying coffee off the internet from America when I could do it here and this was like yeah 1998-9. So like buying stuff off the internet was a bit weird back then. Jon Moss: [00:34:42] Someone had to do it. We started early probably buying stuff off the internet. Steve Leighton: [00:34:47] And I remember our first website I would never have given my credit card to that website ever ever ever. Like the fools the fools that did it. Steve Leighton: [00:34:55] I mean that was pre pre you been part of a bill. I timemachine I managed to get a screenshot anyway. [6.1] Jon Moss: [00:35:01] The Wayback Machine. Steve Leighton: [00:35:02] That's it. Jon Moss: [00:35:02] That machine that's something you can people I'll put the link in in the notes you can look at websites used to look like. [7.7] It's kind of an archive of the web. Steve Leighton: [00:35:14] So I went for a lime green background with brown text. Jon Moss: [00:35:18] Nice. Steve Leighton: [00:35:19] I really nailed the whole style thing but people did give me their money, idiots. Jon Moss: [00:35:24] So when was that. Steve Leighton: [00:35:25] That was 2003 when I first set up my first website cost me [00:35:29] 50 markets. [0.9] Jon Moss: [00:35:30] Wow. Steve Leighton: [00:35:31] So a lad who used to come in the coffee shop so we had a coffee shop before he was 16 and at college and he came in and he said I could build you a website to sell stuff. I had a custom built CGI website. Jon Moss: [00:35:45] For 50 markers. [0.2] [00:35:46] For 50 markers. Jon Moss: [00:35:47] Bargain. Steve Leighton: [00:35:47] Yes, bargain but it was just it was a nightmare. So then we ended up on OS commerce, remmber OS commerce? Jon Moss: [00:35:55] I do back in this kind of thick fog and mists of time. Steve Leighton: [00:35:58] Yeah yeah. So then we were OS commerce and then we've gone through different platforms and now we're on Shopify. Jon Moss: [00:36:04] But with a heavily customised kind of bespoke backend you were telling me about. Steve Leighton: [00:36:09] Indeed, the front the front end is the store part but we don't use any of the backend stuff we literally rip everything out with their API and spit it into a more intelligent machine that can do shipping labels and bag labels and metal fields and manage subscriptions and all of those things so we were very lucky that Shopify is a fantastic front end platform for me and I think there's nothing better out there and for customer experience and ease of use, it works very well. Steve Leighton: [00:36:37] But their back lacks a little bit because he's not geared up for volume stores and I'm not saying we're a volume store by any means but I think we were not the target of Shopify. You know they're expecting people to sell 10 20 things a day on them I think that's the majority feeling I get from Shopify. Jon Moss: [00:36:54] And you're selling a bit more than that these days. Steve Leighton: [00:36:57] I mean it depends but you know certain days we can send out fifteen hundred items in a day or 1500 orders in a day individual orders. So you know it's not always like that but yeah you know we needed something that was a little bit more customised. I think the front end is perfect for that. Jon Moss: [00:37:14] And that investment in the business in terms of software and processes and efficiency is something you'd absolutely say has been the key to success? Steve Leighton: [00:37:23] For sure. I mean we made them at strangest of times so like we always manage to expand when we didn't need to, which is odd. Jon Moss: [00:37:33] Predicting the future. Steve Leighton: [00:37:36] I am not Nostradamus of the coffee world. But like when we moved roastery we didn't need to move roastery. It felt like the right time because we were starting to feel tight with the space. But we did it and by the time we actually got in there we were desperate to get in there because we's grown and the same with the back end systems with the APIs and Shopify that we would get to a point where we were tying up two people a day so two full days of man days a day just data inputting. Which is crazy. Like nobody wants to do that first of all. The second part is you make mistakes because humans make mistakes and it is a waste of money. So we introduced the new system and overnight we got two extra staff which was great because we needed them because all of a sudden we got busier because we'd updated the front end of the site and now people have more confidence in what we would doing. And I think that's the thing is investing in that kind of thing. Investing confidence in your customers because we don't get things wrong as often now. So are customer retention is better because that data input. Steve Leighton: [00:38:30] Everybody makes mistakes and I don't think you can ever eliminate them. But the more you eliminate the more your customer experience is going to be good which is going to be less work you responding to their complaints which means a happier customer. Jon Moss: [00:38:42] And you've got a big focus on customer service. Steve Leighton: [00:38:45] Massively massively I think like when I first started there were a lot of big names in coffee. People won't realise this but there's actually like rockstar coffee people in there and I'm not one of them. I am not cool. [00:38:58] I beg to differ. Steve Leighton: [00:38:59] I'm the Val Doonican of the rock world. Jon Moss: [00:39:02] I haven't heard that before. Steve Leighton: [00:39:05] They are a lot cooler so you can't compete with their call and I can't compete with their call, they are very cool people out there. And I also couldn't compete with the money that they were getting people back in them and I haven't got any back in so I couldn't compete with the money that was being invested. But what I could compete in was actually caring, so caring about the customer experience. So as I was saying up until 2011 every email that came into Has Bean I replied personally replied to every single email. And even now I still respond to a lot of you. You phone up, please don't phone up. We've got a telephone system that tries the hardest to get you to not speak to anyone but if you do phone up and you happen to be looking and get through the phone on my desk that rings you know. So like I want to have that customer contact because with web shopping you never have a chance to talk to your customers unless it goes wrong. Jon Moss: [00:39:53] And that's not good. Steve Leighton: [00:39:54] It's not good. But if you can turn it into a positive so the chance you do to speak to them they go way thinking. That was awesome. Like, didn't they do a good job, wow. I never expected them to react like that. You know that's and that's priceless because. Jon Moss: [00:40:07] And they tell people. Steve Leighton: [00:40:07] Exactly so the people who you're not talking to, get to hear that you're really good when stuff goes wrong and that's kind of good you know. Because then that feeds around that ecosystem of Twitter. Never I've never and I'm probably going to curse myself there but I've never seen somebody say hated the response from Has Bean. Like I've had people say I don't like the response but I understand it you know but like never hate it because we always want people to go away feeling better than they can because if they come with a problem they're feeling pretty bad and you want them to go away feeling better and you can't fix everything. Steve Leighton: [00:40:42] But if you can fix something that's a good thing. Jon Moss: [00:40:44] And it's a good opportunity for brands and you do this perfectly in terms of making that bad experience into something actually they're going to be happy with and that makes that works extremely well doesn't it? Steve Leighton: [00:40:57] Yeah and I think a lot of that thing about not being able to talk to the customers when things are going right is one of the things that I I've love the most about the other things that we've done with you know. So anybody who knows anything about has been on here. Hello. But also they know that In My Mug and In My Mug is a video podcast I've done episode 456 we're about to record. Jon Moss: [00:41:19] Great name. Steve Leighton: [00:41:21] Terrible name terrible name. Jon Moss: [00:41:23] Great name. Steve Leighton: [00:41:24] So where I'm going with this is that John, me and John were, this was a time when we were really talking about stuff and we were into Wine Library TV. Jon Moss: [00:41:32] With Gary V. Steve Leighton: [00:41:33] Gary Vay-Ner-Chuk, who I've met a number of times now. Jon Moss: [00:41:37] Have you. Is he in real life just as big as he is online. Steve Leighton: [00:41:43] He is even nicer. So I went do you remember the Wine Library I did? So I bought 50 of his book when I was drunk at night. Like give me a computer and drunk at night and I'm great but ended up going to do Wine Library with him. And when I went down there I forgot the glasses. But three bottles of amazing wine for us to taste and they were amazing. But I forgot the glasses so we end up drinking out the bottle and he just made all of the time to make it happen. Lovely guy but this Wine Library TV was a wine tasting programme where he would drink three wines and talk about them and talk about the provenance of them. And you said to me why don't you do that with coffee, ah, that's stupid. A week later I was searching domain names and doing it. I bounced names off John. And I came up with some really good ones as well I'm going to see if I can find that email. Jon Moss: [00:42:28] We've probably got it somewhere probably in the archive. Steve Leighton: [00:42:32] Yeah but John chose In My Mug. Jon Moss: [00:42:35] It stuck. Steve Leighton: [00:42:35] Mugs you see have such a negative connotation in the specialty coffee world everybody is cups. I actually own In My Cup and In My Demitasse as well. I think two different domain names that's a different drunken addiction I have at night buy domain names I think I own about 100 domain names, but yes, so John was the reason In My Mug started and it's all your fault. Jon Moss: [00:42:56] And it's been a real success. Steve Leighton: [00:42:57] It has I mean we have we have 1500 subscribers a week to the coffee. We get on average around about five to ten thousand views per week and they never die. So the back catalogue gets watched and watched and watched. Jon Moss: [00:43:12] A longtail of quality coffee content is online In My Mug. Steve Leighton: [00:43:18] It's just crazy. I mean think about how many hours and how much energy I've expended into it and it's a very transient thing. As a podcast it's only so many times you can sit and watch a ginger haired guy drink coffee in front of a camera. Jon Moss: [00:43:30] You'd think. Steve Leighton: [00:43:31] You'd think. Jon Moss: [00:43:32] You know. Steve Leighton: [00:43:32] I'd say that I've managed to do, I did one on a train once I did one in a car I did one in business class on British Airways once. Jon Moss: [00:43:40] How did that go down? Steve Leighton: [00:43:40] That was quite good actually. The air steward came and waved to the people. Yeah, where else have I done them? I've done them in some very strange places. On a boat. I did some on a boat in the middle of the Irish Sea once in a rowing boat. Jon Moss: [00:43:40] I couldn't do that. The old Moss sea legs are not good. Steve Leighton: [00:43:40] But it's definitely been an adventure. I did one at Argman Studios. Jon Moss: [00:43:40] Now that would've been good. Steve Leighton: [00:43:40] That was very cool. I did one in the swimming pool in El Salvadore. That was fun. Jon Moss: [00:43:40] The equipment held up? Steve Leighton: [00:43:40] It did, it was on the side of the pool, so I was OK. But I had a lot of comments about my tan on my chest, not my speedos. You couldn't see my speedos. The budgy smugglers were hidden. Jon Moss: [00:44:25] Nice. Goodness me, and you've been spending a bit of time in Scandinavia. Steve Leighton: [00:44:29] I have I have. Jon Moss: [00:44:33] Tell us a little bit about Drop Coffee. Steve Leighton: [00:44:35] Yes, I've had an opportunity about two and a half years ago to go and consult for Drop Coffee which is a very well known brand of very strong brand in not just in Sweden, but worldwide. Super well known but for some reason the numbers weren't coming in. So the brand was there. Everybody liked what they did. Steve Leighton: [00:44:54] It was very Scandi cool but nobody was buying it. Jon Moss: [00:44:57] So it's that classic kind of marketing brand issue that, there's awareness, but that's it. Steve Leighton: [00:45:04] Exactly and they couldn't work out what was happening. So they asked me to go along and basically just cast an eye across. I get asked not a lot but often to go and do this kind of thing and have no interest at all. But I like the guys there. Eric and Joanna who are the owners who are good friends and it seemed good a good thing to do and they got me drunk one night and I went, oh alright then. I went out and did all of my thing came back and I just said how much money have you got, they were like, none! I said well, you need to find some by September otherwise you're out of business. Your burning money too quickly and I can't see any way of stopping that unless you've got more money to invest and then take it on and it was pretty hard. I gave them some suggestions of things that they should focus on and should do but I didn't see any way that they could survive with a more injection and then following morning I was about to leave and I got a phone call from Eric who is one of the owners. He was the majority shareholder and said did I want to buy his share and I was like, no, this is a terrible idea,. Jon Moss: [00:46:04] Out of the blue somewhat. Steve Leighton: [00:46:06] Yeah I was like why would I want to buy something that I've just said he's about to die you know and I can be so ridiculous and how I got to the airport and I was on the aeroplane on the line just in the back of my head I was thinking I could probably fix this. Steve Leighton: [00:46:17] There's always something arrogant in us that we think could fix that. Jon Moss: [00:46:20] I can do that today. I can turn this around. Steve Leighton: [00:46:24] Yes, with my contacts. So I kind of I came back a week later to do a final presentation with the numbers and things of what I suggest was suggesting and I just afterwards I said to Eric, I said how much do you want? He came back with a number that was super reasonable so I bought 80-60 percent share and ended up being co-owner. First thing I did was give 10 percent away to Joanna who is the other partner in the business and I don't like businesses where there is split equity. Steve Leighton: [00:46:58] I did a very similar thing with 3FE in Dublin when I became partner in that one was like, no no straight down the middle this one and it worked so well that I wanted to repeat that for Drop. And yes since then we started working much closer together. We started travelling a lot more and as these things tend to work out, she's also my partner as well. So not just business partner but the real life partner. I'm doing the inverted commas for those who can't see in radio world. It's weird because we think very similar and work doesn't stop and then we end up going home a work carries on which is not a good thing. But luckily she's Swedish enough that she loves vacations and loves to go swimming and things like that so I have to switch off some. But that's been a big challenge learning a new language as much as everybody speaks English in Sweden there are some things you need to understand Swedish for for instance their online banking doesn't have a translation which I've learnt lots, Lohn is salary. There are lots of things like that and also just the way that business is done. Wow so different and we've refitted the shop and we've invested in it. We move in roasteries in the next six months into a new roastery and really change things round. We haven't grown as much as we might have liked but actually Drop was never meant to be another Has Been I didn't want to repeat the same mistakes I think having something small and unique and beautiful and crafted that it is the higher end of the market is fun too. You know we can spend a little bit more time on packaging than we can at Has Bean now because we have much lower volume and it's much more handcrafted. So yeah it's fun. Jon Moss: [00:48:41] It looks fun to look at looking at the website and its lovely brand and you know you spending you know quite a bit of time over there. And I'm certainly a massive fan of kind of that kind of Scandinavian whether that's Danish, Swedish lifestyle and aesthetic which I think you mentioned earlier when we were chatting off mic and it's just a nice place to be isn't it. And they've got not only just design but it's the way of life. Steve Leighton: [00:49:10] It is it is very much the quality of life you know it is no it's no surprise that they always come top in the quality of life you know things that you see in Europe and the world. They have very strong high taxation which I'm a big fan of. I actually like high taxes. Steve Leighton: [00:49:30] I think we should all pay more taxes. You know you reap the benefits of that but they also have very strong employment laws so it's really expensive to employ somebody it can be 40 percent more on top of employing them so I give you twenty five thousand pounds. I've go another 40 percent of that to find to put on top for my cost as an employer but that's a good thing. Steve Leighton: [00:49:51] You know it's it makes you value employees more and you make sure that they dont burn out you know the they've got plenty of time off. There's a thing going through at the moment where they're looking to reduce the working day to six hours a day which kind of work the other way where I work 18 hours a day and sleep six hours a day. Jon Moss: [00:50:09] I was going to say you probably couldn't do six. Steve Leighton: [00:50:11] No no no. The good thing it doesn't apply to employers. Jon Moss: [00:50:15] OK, you're safe then. Steve Leighton: [00:50:15] But it's a fantastic lifestyle and really makes you re-evaluate what's important. You know I've gone through spending much more time there and I think my my but my work life balance is much stronger than it's ever been but I'm much more balanced towards enjoying life and work isn't everything. Whereas, three years ago I think you would have found in a very different me. Jon Moss: [00:50:39] I'm a big believer in that you've got to you've got to look after yourself now to make sure you're not burned out in X number of months years ahead in the future. And actually it can be a hard choice but it's the right choice because you know you've got to make sure you have that balance to be effective and efficient in your work because if you're outside of work you've got you're not balanced you're not in a great place. Steve Leighton: [00:51:02] I mean it's the last 12 months I've done three holidays and actually real holidays that weren't any coffee involved. Yeah I went to I went to Tenerife with my mum my mum's from Cannock, bless her. That's why she wanted to go to Tenerife, but that was fun and then I went to San Sebastian and just eight amazing food in northern Spain which was just absolutely stunning. And I'm going to Gothland next week not next for midsummer which is going to be fun too. So we get to go and sit in a cottage in the middle of nowhere for 10 days with no internet. Jon Moss: [00:51:35] Oh my gosh. Are you going to survive? You'll be fine. Steve Leighton: [00:51:39] I'll still take the laptop. Jon Moss: [00:51:41] Very good. Well listen Steve, thanks so much for coming on the show. It's wonderful to see you and thank you so much for having a chat. [00:51:51] And for the listeners you can find Steve at hasbean.co.uk and on Twitter at Has Bean and Instagramm and at Has Bean as well. Steve Leighton: [00:52:03] I'm very good at snaffling the URLs fairly early on. [11.2] Yeah no thank you. Thank you for inviting me on and also thank you for all of your support over the previous year Jon. You've been. You've always been an inspiration with the stuff that you do. And yes while everybody is being sick on the other end but now you know what you're doing is amazing and I'm really pleased to see you into the podcasting world. It's about time. Jon Moss: [00:52:32] I agree I'm really really enjoying it and even more so being able to have great friends and guests on the show. Jon Moss: [00:52:40] So we've had so much fun that I totally forgot to ask my regular question to Steve. So Steve we've come back on again. Steve Leighton: [00:52:49] You thought we were gone but we're back. Jon Moss: [00:52:53] We're back. So the regular question I ask guests is has there been a brand a service or a product that's recently really stood out to you. Steve Leighton: [00:53:07] I've got a couple actually because I know you're going to ask this so I thought about it last night. Jon Moss: [00:53:15] And I forgot. Steve Leighton: [00:53:15] You forgot. Service, I don't know if you've ever been to Lush. Jon Moss: [00:53:20] The shops that sell natural products you know bath and shower and beauty products. I have been to Lush. Steve Leighton: [00:53:28] Their service is immense. Jon Moss: [00:53:30] Have you been recently? Steve Leighton: [00:53:30] Yes, and I've had such good experiences, I don't know whether it's just that I thought it maybe just localised, so the one in Birmingham might have extremely friendly staff who were very helpful and I was looking for presents and I was just like bending over backwards to help running backwards and forwards and I was like ah maybe just one shot and then I was in Stockholm and they have them in Stockholm as well and I got exactly the same experience. I was like, this is trained, this is taught. Jon Moss: [00:53:54] They've got it right. Steve Leighton: [00:53:55] They've got it right. So service wise I'm really really impressed. How they're getting their message out there and I'm not their target audience yet I still came away thinking that was extraordinary but that was something different to what I normally get. Steve Leighton: [00:54:08] But the brand wise, the one that jumped out at me and I've been absolutely loving and again it's this Swedish influence. There's a brewery called Omni Pollow they're based in Stockholm. They have, they're like brewery tap, brewery bar is my local to where I live when I'm in Stockholm so it's very convenient. Jon Moss: [00:54:28] Very dangerous. Steve Leighton: [00:54:29] Very dangerous, but their branding is phenomenal and they're nailing it now worldwide at the minute they're on fire is a brewery and you don't own a brewery. So they're basically paying other people to make their big breweries and their branding and branding it and putting it out there and there's no there's no one thing I can put my finger on of the brand like it's this or it's this but it's really delicious beer served really well with lovely packaging and beautiful feelings to it. But also touching on things that are very important to Swedes and it's not very popular in Sweden it's much more populara outside of Sweden than in Sweden but things like equality and things like feminism and things like that and they did they did this one beer that blew me away and it's called yellowbelly and it's a bottle it's wrapped in a white paper with two eyes cut out and basically it's very provocative, you know, it's just like what the heck are they doing? And then when you take the wrapping off underneath on the label it says yellowbelly a person who's a coward or hides behind what they do and they've been a big push for the right wing in Sweden for getting rid of immigrants and stuff like that and people saying oh no I'm not right wing and then going in the voting booth and voting for the right wing. So they were basically making a point about how you know it's cowardly to hide behind, that you're something else and then in the voting booth vote in a different way and it was a collaboration with one of my favourite breweries in the UK called Buxton who I'm just a huge fan of. So two of my favourite breweries coming together and making this beautiful statement about you know like don't be cowardly if that's what you think you're allowed to think it you know as long as it doesn't turn into you know bad things but it really made me stop and think about like actually this is a cowardly thing again. Jon Moss: [00:56:14] And a very considered way of launching a new product. Steve Leighton: [00:56:18] Yes, and the beer was amazing as well. You're really missing out on that one Jon. Do you reckon? Steve Leighton: [00:56:27] But no I really love their branding I think what they're doing is fantastic. Jon Moss: [00:56:31] Wonderful. Thank you. Steve Leighton: [00:56:34] I think we've actually finished. Steve Leighton: [00:56:35] Can I finally go now? Jon Moss: [00:56:36] I reckon. Steve Leighton: [00:56:37] You've shoved me in this room for long enough, it's really hot. Jon Moss: [00:56:39] It is warm it's 26 degrees I think we're recording this on our summer which is one week probably. Steve Leighton: [00:56:47] Indeed. Jon Moss: [00:56:48] And yeah I think my belly is rumbling as well so what steak and chips possibly. Steve Leighton: [00:56:52] Sounds possible. Jon Moss: [00:56:54] Alright thank you. Jon Moss: [00:56:57] The Remarkable Business Show. So I hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as we did. Steve is one of life's good guys. He's one of the most generous people I know and someone I have so much respect for. I love spending time with you Steve. Thank you again for coming on the show so make sure you say hello to Steve over on Twitter @hasbean and also subscribed to In my mug or indeed sign up to coffee101.co.uk. Loads of great information on there. As you know I'm a big fan of quotes and this is the one that has made a lot of sense recently "To make every minute count you've got to make every future minute count also". And that means living a life today. That's not going to leave you burnt out and broke in five or 10 years' time. Sean and I spoke in 2017 and recorded a terrific conversation which like Steve's I've not done anything with until now I'm going to try and get this sorted out for a future episode. In the meantime have a look at what Shawn does over [00:57:54] on shawnblanc.net. [0.2] [00:57:55] That's [00:57:56] shawnblanc.net. So [0.0] things that have caught my eye for this episode so as always there are many things that caught my eye recently from air pollution monitoring devices to the rise of the new challenger banks. More on this in the future show I hope and I'm always keen to try new things. One thing that I've been impressed with recently or rather one brand or company is Bulb. Bulb is one of the new energy companies challenging the likes of EDF British Gas and EON here in the UK. Jon Moss: [00:58:27] The nice thing about bulb is that they supply all their members with 100 percent renewable electricity and 10 percent green gas. They buy their energy from independent renewable generators and wherever possible they've got direct relationships with those generators. They've got a great app to use and importantly for me they're a certified B corporation. Have a look at what a B corporation really means online. So they meet the highest social and environmental standards and they're also very cost effective. So a big thumbs up. Bulb feels like one of those companies you are connected to in terms of you kind of root for them. You want them to do well. Jon Moss: [00:59:03] There are many brands and products you don't give a second thought to. And then there are ones you feel kind of invested in. You care about what they are doing and whether they succeed or not. Bulb is one of those brands. Last but not least you can get 50 pounds off now if you switch and this is going to help me out too. I was one of those people who didn't switch regularly. Don't be like me. You can save significant amounts by switching your energy supplier. And what better way to start by getting 50 pounds credit. If you're interested just head on over to [00:59:33] jonm.me/getbulb. [0.0] Jon Moss: [00:59:37] That's jonm.me/getbulb. Jon Moss: [00:59:44] Okay that wraps it up for Episode 9 hurray. We've actually managed to get one out huge thank you to Harry and Howard at Engine7 Audio, check those guys out at engine7.co.uk, if you need anything to do with audio these are the guys to use. You may know that I write a regular newsletter called The Bulletin. Subscribers are growing in the open rate on the emails is just above 75 percent and when you first sign up you get an e-book too packed with valuable tips so give it a go. Head on over to the appleofmyi.com/newsletterslash and all of these links will be in the show notes. Also please do say hello over on Twitter @jonmoss. If you enjoyed this episode please let someone know. Send them a message or an email or tweet about the show. You can share this episode easily by clicking the share link on top of the page. If you're listening in the browser or in an app just send somebody a message. If you can leave an honest review for The Remarkable Business Show on iTunes or Stitcher. This is really helpful. They make a great difference for the shows visibility and popularity and allow me to have more interesting guests on. Last but not least. Im starting to write more this year and so Im starting blogging again over [01:00:59] on mossy.co.uk. [0.0] So have a look. Subscribe to the RSS feed and leave a comment. It would be wonderful to hear from any listeners until next time. Don't tolerate average in your life, life is way too short, make every day count.