Jon Moss-The Remarkable Business Show-Episode 7 (reduced MB).mp3

Jon Moss: [00:00:00] This is The Remarkable Business Show on remarkable.fm. I'm Jon Moss and this is Episode Seven. Starting a business doesn't have to mean quitting your day job! 

VO: [00:00:11] Cyclist, skier, international fugitive, and all round curious guy. Here's the latest edition of The Remarkable Business Show with your host Jon. 

Jon Moss: [00:00:23] Welcome to the show. Can you believe that autumn seems to be creeping around the corner? It seems the summer has flown by. Not that we had much of one here in the U.K. Something that I'm going to be going into a lot more in depth in the future is the ability to work from any location. I'd actually prefer somewhere with a little bit more warmth than sun and certainly less wind. So that's going to be much better for the cycling. 

Jon Moss: [00:00:47] Often known as Location Independent Businesseses. This is starting to fascinate me and I'm going to be trying this in real life very soon. So watch this space and listen out for a future episode. 

Jon Moss: [00:00:57] I love the idea that individuals, small businesses, or even large corporations don't have to follow the traditional path of how they do things. Their remarkable factor could be their marketing, their culture, the sales, the perks, systems, and yes, products as well. It might actually be their technology. Tech's amazing and it can allow businesses to be available worldwide, sell software, sell products that we could not have imagined five years ago let alone ten years ago. However, remarkable businesses don't have to be high tech. 

Jon Moss: [00:01:28] It can be as simple as the service you receive, the warmth and the generosity of the person you meet or speak to. It could be how the business fixes something if something goes wrong. I guess what I'm trying to say that it could be anything. 

Jon Moss: [00:01:39] Businesses often fail in doing the really simple things well so they can spend thousands on their website, tens of thousands on advertising. But someone who might be having a bad day answers the phone and deals badly with a customer or indeed a prospect and all of that well, that investment just went down the pan pretty quickly. Its often these small cracks which go unnoticed. 

Jon Moss: [00:02:02] Often people in the business don't realize how much they really matter in the bigger scheme, how they fit into the jigsaw or how they are a cog in a big machine. Sadly they might not actually care. Not caring about the business they work in can mean they're not engaged, they're not treated well, or perhaps not listened to. And that's the fault of the management or indeed the person running the business. 

Jon Moss: [00:02:23] It's very easy for people to become disenchanted with the job they just don't want to be doing. Now I'm not saying that's a good thing. Far from it. They should try and make the best of it, speak to someone, change their role. You never really actually try and you know make the most of it and improve. But there is something they could also do and look at starting their own business. And as I said at the start of the show starting a business, there is a better way. It doesn't have to mean quitting your day job and it doesn't mean risking it all and hoping for the best and there is a way of doing this and what were going to be discussing amongst other things with the guest on today show is exactly this. 

Jon Moss: [00:02:58] There is overlap which is available to everybody. My guests on the show today is Sean McCabe also known as Seanwes. Sean is someone who makes you think he must have some special superpower. Why? well, what he's done and what he does is quite incredible. His work output is something else from podcast to courses, conference, and his latest book which is just launch called Overlap. 

Jon Moss: [00:03:23] Actually though his success is down to one thing in particular: showing up day after day and doing the work putting the hours in, sweating the details. Paying the price is something you'll hear a lot with successful people. You need to pay the price to do something worthwhile. Something worthwhile is generally not easy and it requires those hours, days, weeks, months, and years of hard work and it requires a choice. 

Jon Moss: [00:03:46] How you spend your time is a direct reflection on what you are going to be able to do - launch, create, or indeed, sell in the future. So is it Instagram or are you writing some content, planning your future and doing something that contributes to the plan to get there? This is exactly what Sean did with lettering. He put together an online course. It took a huge amount of time outside his day job to deliver something truly special that people would want. And it really worked. He made six figures in three days after it launched. I'm delighted that Sean's on the show. I've been following him for quite a long time. We discuss all manner of things including the art of delegation and what you definitely shouldn't delegates. 

Jon Moss: [00:04:28] We also discuss how important communication is especially if you a freelancer working with a client and how clients don't want tasks performed. They want goals accomplished plus how to best work with those clients and we also covered his amazing new book Overlap which is a must buy. So sit back grab a coffee and enjoy our conversation. 

VO: [00:04:51] Accessible, authentic, and useful. The Remarkable Business Show speaks to remarkable people. 

Jon Moss: [00:04:58] I'm delighted to welcome another remarkable guest. We seem to have had a pretty good run on this show so far and today's guest is going to be just as remarkable as our previous ones. So welcome Sean McCabe also known as Seanwes online. So thank you so much for coming on The Remarkable Business Show today Sean. 

Sean McCabe: [00:05:16] I am so excited to be here Jon and I love I have to say I love the name of the show remarkable. That's really good. 

Jon Moss: [00:05:22] Well thank you for saying that. I had a few other ideas. There is going to be it was going to be The Interesting Show I think at one point but I quite liked The Remarkable Business Show and I managed to get that URL I mentioned. So it's remarkable.f.m. which I thought was pretty good. 

Sean McCabe: [00:05:40] I'm such a big fan of just simple especially one word brand names. That's awesome. 

Jon Moss: [00:05:45] Yeah I think I got lucky. I was looking through and I thought ahh! remarkable.fm. I got to have that. 

Sean McCabe: [00:05:50] I'm excited to be here. Thanks for having me. 

Jon Moss: [00:05:52] Much much appreciated. I really appreciate your time and your speaking from the good old U.S. Where whereabouts are you in the world over there? 

Sean McCabe: [00:06:02] I am in Texas specifically San Antonio Texas which people probably know for the Alamo. 

Jon Moss: [00:06:10] And also basketball. San Antonio Spurs. Is that right? 

Sean McCabe: [00:06:13] Oh yeah. We got a good basketball team that's true. 

Jon Moss: [00:06:15] Yeah. I used to watch a lot of the NBA when it when I was a bit younger so and played a little bit basketball that wasn't very good so yeah. 

Sean McCabe: [00:06:23] San Antonio has a phenomenal food if you ever get a chance to visit.Just incredible food. 

Jon Moss: [00:06:29] Any particular type or ..? 

Sean McCabe: [00:06:31] I would say Tex Mex which is it's not exactly Mexican food but it it's like a fusion of Mexican food in Texas food it's really good. 

Jon Moss: [00:06:40] I bet it is I'm getting hungry already. Goodness I haven't eaten yet. So you're over there in San Antonio. Could you tell us a little bit about what you do, who you are, what's your main kind of job, and what you know what do you do in life. 

Sean McCabe: [00:06:56] Well I help people build and grow an audience driven business. So people who would consider themselves freelancers, entrepreneurs, small business owners. Specifically, I help them build an audience for themselves, build an audience driven business. And so everything around that especially content marketing. So helping people produce video, work on their you know, building up a riding habit. Teaching people how to podcast. That's that's really where we're focused on. 

Jon Moss: [00:07:26] Fantastic. I'm going to be listening intently to any podcasting tips that you give me. Because you've been you've been doing it for quite some time. It's not sort of just a flash in the pan. You've really kind of doubled down over the last few years and created an online brand which is Seanwes isn't it. Seanwes.com. 

Sean McCabe: [00:07:47] Yes. So Seanwes is the brand name that comes from my middle name is Wesley. So my full name is Sean Wesley McCabe but there were a lot of Sean McCabes online and I decided our combined my first and middle names to create a unique brand name that doesn't exist already. So that's where Seanwes came from. 

Jon Moss: [00:08:07] That's a good idea. I suffer a little bit from that as well - Jon Moss. So I'm competing with the drummer from Culture Club - a very old band you know that in the 80's and then also there's a football referee called Jon Moss as well. So occasionally when he's refereeing and not doing a very good job I get abused on Twitter. 

Sean McCabe: [00:08:27] Well, you know it ended up working out pretty well in my case because now I rank pretty well in the search engines for my full names so it worked out In the end. 

Jon Moss: [00:08:38] You're well known for a number of things not only what you've just described but also for the letter letter not letter press..struggling struggling for words here. 

Sean McCabe: [00:08:51] Hand lettering. 

Jon Moss: [00:08:51] Hand lettering. That's exactly it. So and that's something I've been looking at and what you're doing online. That looks incredible. How how did that actually happen? 

Sean McCabe: [00:09:01] Yes so hand lettering is essentially drawing letters by hand if you think of like the Coca-Cola logo. That's something that's not based on a font. It's something that someone actually drew and designed custom. I got into hand lettering. I used to draw letters in middle school. A really liked just kind of doodling I would doodle all my homework. But you know there was a period where highschool and a little after that, I just didn't really draw anymore. I thought eh that's kind of a silly thing. You know I have to pay the bills then you know, I just kind of let it fall by the wayside. And then I met someone a fellow designer was was in town. 

Sean McCabe: [00:09:40] He asked if I wanted to have coffee and he was a hand lettering artist and I was really inspired by his work. And I was telling him that I enjoyed that kind of thing but I was building websites at the time and he said "If you enjoy it,you know just start creating it because It have to be something that turns into a job and that kind of unlocked it for me. I don't know. It's as if he gave me permission to just create because you know, I enjoyed creating it. And so I did. I started doing that honestly six to eight hours a day outside of my day job. Just creating because I enjoyed, it was fun. No one really noticed for the first two years but eventually they did start noticing em you know lo and behold I ended up making great money from it. It became a job. Not like to say it was boring to me but it became something that made good income and I was actually able to support myself you know. It didn't happen until years later but in the beginning I thought "Oh that's not something that could be serious or make me money" but it actually ended up being that. 

Jon Moss: [00:10:45] That's great to hear. And he built up a really amazing audience and community around the hand lettering and that's something you've continued to this day with other things isn't it. And we were chatting before, that audience and community for people or brands or indeed companies. It's so important but why do you think it's important that audience and community. 

Sean McCabe: [00:11:08] Well there is a difference between audience and community. I mean audience is a one to many relationship and community is a many to many relationship. You know obviously I think building up an audience especially for your business is very important but beyond that, turning an audience into a community you know making it something more. Something that's less about you and more about a movement is really great. There's so many benefits to having a community. I mean obviously you're seen as an authority so you're able to sell products, you can launch new things in the future, and it gets easier not harder because you don't lose that core base that you have. 

Jon Moss: [00:11:50] Yeah I couldn't agree more and I think brands that build a community and people who build a community. They're automatically ahead of people who don't have that because they're the people who are believers or fans who are always gonna be talking well of you and then kind of your word of mouth marketing which so many people look to get but so many fail. 

Sean McCabe: [00:12:11] Consistently the theme for me. I've run many different businesses I guess four different businesses in the past 11 years and every single time, word of mouth has been the greatest source of new business for us. And so investing in that, investing in your audience, building a community is a fantastic way to get people to spread the word. 

Jon Moss: [00:12:33] Yeah I totally agree. And I mean it's not all roses though isn't it? You know there's obviously you know a lot of work that goes into this. What has been your biggest challenges over the past few years or even longer than that? 

Sean McCabe: [00:12:49] Well honestly I was doing the lettering thing. It had fortunately become a full time pursuit for me and it was a lot of work. I was struggling with kind of I would call 'superhero syndrome'. You know try to do everything myself and not really having the capacity to end. So I had to learn to delegate. Delegates not just the things that I was not good at or the things that I didn't enjoy. Those are the easier things to delegates where it's really difficult. Delegating the things that you're good at but you shouldn't be doing and the way to know that I've found is to delegate everything except voice and vision. Those are the two things that only you can really speak to. You have that bird's eye view. You know you have the CEO mindset you have the vision. You know where you're going. Maybe your voice takes different forms, different mediums. And maybe someone on your team could help you turn your audio recording into a written form or plan out a you know a video presentation or something. But at the core, you need to be responsible for voice and vision and delegating everything else. 

Sean McCabe: [00:13:58] So I had to struggle through that several years ago going from just me one person to half a dozen others on our team. And I would say that the second biggest challenge was going from being known as a lettering artist to teaching people business because what I found was you know as much as I enjoy creating art and making money for myself. I was getting dozens, hundreds of emails all the time like every single day I probably get half dozen to a dozen emails from people asking how I was able to do what I did. And the more I shared you know a mention and very fond of podcasting. I started podcasting twice a week. 

Sean McCabe: [00:14:37] We're now three 300 plus episodes in and the more I shared what I was learning as I went, the more I started hearing from people you know what you're sharing is helped me I've been able to start my own business or move across the world or get out of a soul sucking day job because of what you've shared with me and all along I felt like you know what. I really want to help people get unstuck. I want to help people in in all different industries because people who are listening to the podcast were in all different fields not just artistic fields. And so here I was known as this hand lettering artist. But really, I wanted to help people all over doing all kinds of different things and I felt like I was being held back like everyone knew me as this lettering artist. 

Sean McCabe: [00:15:22] How could I teach people business? You know I felt like I would never have enough track record. It didn't matter that I launched a course that made six figures in three days or I had two hundred thousand people read one of my guides or tens of thousands of students. I still felt like I was being held back and no one would ever see me as this source of,, you know business knowledge. And then I started to realize it was only years later that...I'm sure you've experienced this Jon you see people online who they're making money by teaching people how to make money online. And it's this kind of recursive thing that turns people off like hey what have you really done. What's your actual business? You know, why should I trust you? And I realized, you know what the lettering stuff is like my real life case study. Like hey I spent nine thousand hours practicing getting good at this skill, working with clients, selling products, teaching what I know. This is the real life case study that backs up everything that I'm talking about. 

Jon Moss: [00:16:26] That to me is exactly what appeals to me about what you've done and and what I try and do as well and the work I do with some of my clients. It's very much focused around that. And you've kind of demonstrated your authority and competence because people want to buy or use people or buy services if people are competent and they show authority and expertise but also that kind of warmth and generosity as well which in an authentic as well because your incredibly transparent in terms of what you do and I really really like that as well. What are the things or maybe one thing that particularly you've learnt about in the last 12 months? You know, one big takeaway. Is there anything sort of following on from what you said about the challenges that you've overcome? 

Sean McCabe: [00:17:18] Without a doubt, the lesson is that cash flow is the lifeblood of the business. And I've known this, I've heard this but there's a difference between hearing something and really understanding it ,really knowing it, internalizing it, and it's not until you don't have the money in the bank that you realize how serious this is. I mean our business, we're pretty transparent about stuff. I like to iterate in public and share what I'm learning as I go. So I share real numbers and stuff with people we make high six figures a year. But, and you know I'm going to be honest we've had some cashflow issues and we've been doing things over the past couple of years to get the business to a more sustainable place but it can be really tough. 

Sean McCabe: [00:18:03] It doesn't matter how much money is coming later in the month or later in the year. If it's not in the bank right now, you've got a significant problem. And it's the number one reason businesses die and they fail. So what I've put in place and I'm not even saying we're always at this point but it's a goal for me, is something that I called the New Zero. And this is getting six months of your income and your expenses in the bank. So you take, What is that number every month your expenses that you need to survive as a business? You can apply this to personal life as well. You know your personal budget or bills every month, but especially in the case of a business, what is that monthly number? Multiply that number by six and that's the New Zero. That's the figure you need to get in the bank and if you have less than that in the bank, you need to think of yourself as being in the negative and you know let that hunger drive you to build up those cash reserves and you have to have that especially when you have employees to cover those times where cash is short. 

Jon Moss: [00:19:09] People are depending on you for their living. You know they're doing obviously great work with you and you've chosen them through part of the team but there's a there's a responsibility as the founder, the business owner that makes that so important. 

Sean McCabe: [00:19:22] Totally true. 

Jon Moss: [00:19:23] Now that that's a fantastic insight there and very valuable. I've looked at it before personally in terms of outgoings on a monthly basis and it's something I'll definitely revisit for the business as well. That level of rigour in terms of finances kind of translates in to another thing which we talked about which is professionalism which is a big topic as well. When we spoke a few weeks ago I loved what you said about professionalism and I found myself nodding away on the call. What is it about professionalism that you particularly focus on? 

Sean McCabe: [00:20:00] I am very very passionate about professionalism both as someone who I would say out of the past 10 years seven of them I've been in client services. So as a service provider, very passionate about professionalism. But more so in the recent three or four years I've been the client in those relationships hiring professionals and I've spent hundreds on jobs, thousands, tens of thousands, hiring professionals to do work for me. And so I'm coming away from this with a very unique perspective that I didn't have in the first seven years when I was doing the work for clients which is the client want to result as a service provider you're so focused on the work that you're not thinking about the mindset of the client. And having been in that place, having been the person who's writing the checks and hiring people, I just want to say you know to you the service provider listening - Learn about my goals. Learn that no client wants tasks performed, they want goals accomplished. They don't want work done in isolation. They want to get to a result. Give me the best solution and I trust you already. I wouldn't have hired you right? 

Sean McCabe: [00:21:17] So you've done the work of establishing your expertise, you're blogging, you're writing, you're doing case studies, you're making videos, you're podcasting, sending newsletters, I trust you and that's why I've hired you. What I don't want you to do is make me do work. And most service providers that I've hired, well, I wouldn't say most because I try to vet them quite a bit now. But many of them they would make me pick from a bunch of different options. You know okay you're several different ways we could go and I say you're making me do work. I'm a busy person I have things to do. I heard you because I trust you. I want you to learn about my goals and then give me the best solution. If you've narrowed it down to two or three concepts, keep going. Pick the one that's best for my particular circumstance. 

Jon Moss: [00:22:05] That will meet your need. And I know I'm nodding here again not a second time I would be nodding again. We've been talking about this Sean. I think that is so important. And often when you are either working with someone or the team or you're on the client side of the receiving end, the professionalism also translates to good communication as well isn't it? And in being absolutely integral in terms of getting the right result and communication you've again said to me how important that is. 

Sean McCabe: [00:22:41] Yes 

Jon Moss: [00:22:41] And why's that do you thing in particular I mean it's fairly obvious but you had some really nice insight into into communication. 

Sean McCabe: [00:22:49] Yeah it is absolutely critical especially in the professional relationship that you establish the roles that both you and your client have. So not every client is going to have the same mindset I do and they're going to follow your lead. So if you make this about their involvement, they will make it about their involvement. So a lot of professionals have this preconception that clients want to be involved in the work they want to do the work, they want to have their hands in the work, and you can't just go away and do the best thing for them. They have to feel like they have a stake in it. The reason they feel that way is because that's how you've led the relationship, the discussion. 

Sean McCabe: [00:23:32] They don't know what their role is because you haven't established their role and you haven't communicated their role. Hey you're responsible for goals and content. I want to know what your goals are and what content you have to work with. Everything else is my responsibility as a professional and I'm going to take that off of your hands. So I might want to defer to you client in your area. Your domain of expertise and then I'm going to handle everything else which is my area or my domain of expertise. You have to communicate this and communication is both the sending in receive of the message. So a lot of people think if you say something to someone you've communicated. 

Sean McCabe: [00:24:17] Well, that's just like broadcasting a radio signal into space. You don't know if anyone's picking up that signal. I mean you could be broadcasting to no one. And so there's a difference between communicating and broadcasting. Two people talking at each other is not communication there's no listening. In many cases, you know this, you've had conversations like this before and the other person is not listening, they're waiting to talk. They're waiting for their opportunity to broadcast back at you. And so it comes down to responsibility. Understanding that you as the communicator are responsible for both the sending and the receipt of the message. Everyone wants to pass the blame to the receiving party and say I told you so. I already told you. You have to take responsibility for that. You have to ensure you're heard. Not not just assume that you're heard and the only way you can be sure, completely sure that the other party has really heard you that you've truly communicated is if you hear your message back from the other person when it comes out of the other person's mouth then you know you've been heard. 

Jon Moss: [00:25:31] I think you're absolutely right with this and the communication is like Chinese Whispers almost isn't it? If you're not careful that what you started out to communicate gets completely lost and comes back in a completely different format or a completely different topic with a different objective. 

Sean McCabe: [00:25:52] Yeah 100 percent in the piece that would solve that, although it would make the game less hilarious, is to ask the person you're communicating with to repeat back what they heard. That would completely solve the problem. 

Jon Moss: [00:26:05] Yeah. And do you use any particular tools, software to help with your communication whether that's within the team or with client work or are you a big fan of face to face or you know, chats like we are now,you know, actually speaking? 

Sean McCabe: [00:26:22] I don't have a particular tool to recommend although I would say when it comes time to presenting a proposal,in the context of client work, to make sure that's something you're doing live. If you can be in person that would be great. But maybe if they're on the other side of the world at least get on a call with them, share your screen, and walk them through the proposal instead of sending over this legal document and saying you know sign this and get back to me which 90 percent of people have me do. Walk me through it in plain English. Explain it as if we were sitting next to each other and reassure me that it's in my best interest. 

Jon Moss: [00:27:00] That sounds like excellent advice. And you know you've come a massive sort of huge journey over the past 10 years from the hand lettering to what you're doing now which is incredibly exciting. If someone was considering starting a business now or a start-up, is there one piece of advice you would give them? 

Sean McCabe: [00:27:25] I hear a lot of people say, you know. Do something more than just the day job, you know, quit your day job and pursue your passion. Like stop. Stop waiting. You know just take a leap of faith. And I think there are times for taking a leap of faith or at least taking a calculated risk but my advice would be don't quit the day job. And I would tell people to overlap and that's what I call going from a day job to pursuing your passion on the side turning that side passion into a successful business. The day job is the financial foundation for you, you know. This is the focus of my life Jon because everyone has passions. Some people know what they are, some people are still trying to discover it. But you have passion. And what I desperately want for people is to not kill that passion because once you kill it, it's dead. It's done. It's like, I mean imagine your favorite dessert, you know, your favorite cake, like picture that icing in everything the way you love it. And now imagine someone baked it with just a little bit of ****. 

Jon Moss: [00:28:38] That's not good. 

Sean McCabe: [00:28:38] I mean even that sentence would make you'd like dry heave. You know that's terrible but like that would that would ruin it. 

Jon Moss: [00:28:45] Yeah. 

Sean McCabe: [00:28:45] It would ruin the dessert for ever. You know, when you mix that passion with the ingredients of a day job that you hate or a client that's terrible or someone that you shouldn't be working with or compromising on your rates, you know. It's this compromise and this scarcity mindset that starts to come in when you mix your passion with that, you will kill it. We know people, we have friends who quit their day job to pursue their passion. And it ended up turning into something that they hate. They ran it into the ground and they went back to the job. 

Sean McCabe: [00:29:21] You know maybe it was the same job, maybe a different job, but you know would they have left is this story that they tell themselves which is "I tried it, I failed, and it didn't work" and they end up even more stuck than before. And it's like I feel like it's my mission to help people protect that passion. You can't be in a place where you're in scarcity mindset while trying to pursue your passion and building it up into something successful because that compromise comes in. 

Sean McCabe: [00:29:50] When you're in scarcity mindset, you're thinking okay: I quit my job. I've gotta make this work. I've gotta take on whatever clients I can get even if they're horrible you know, even if this opportunity is not great and I wouldn't want to work with this person, I have no choice. I have to do what it takes. And you're eventually going to find yourself in a place where you hate what you do, you hate what you once loved. And so I needed something more practical than that. I wasn't, I didn't want to roll the dice. I needed, I need something that was sensible like I'm willing to take a calculated risk but I don't I don't want to take big chances on things I don't want to. I don't want to leave my passion to chance. And so I would say the day job, it doesn't have to be something that that you love or that you're passionate about but it can't be something you hate. I mean if you are working with a terrible boss or toxic people, get out there. You got to get out of there. But I mean you know like you can be around toxic people for sure. I'm not saying stay in a bad place. But as a foundation, find another day job. Start with the day job that covers 100 percent of your bills and build the passion on the side. 

Jon Moss: [00:31:04] I hear you. 

Sean McCabe: [00:31:04] So you have the freedom. You have the ability to say NO to the wrong opportunities. You can say no to someone who wants you to come down on your rate or someone who has all these red flags that you wouldn't want to work with. Be selective. So I would say don't take a leap. Instead, overlap. 

Jon Moss: [00:31:23] So that overlap is so important. And I love the idea of the fact that if you are overlapping or a side project, it's almost like a considered experiment and it's something that you're launching right now. And that's a book called Overlap isn't it? Do you wanna tell us a little bit more about that. It sounds incredible. 

Sean McCabe: [00:31:45] Well this is what I've been working on for many years now. It's the culmination of my life's work really. I started writing this book Overlap several years ago got 20000 words into it and I decided to scrap it all. I put it on the back burner because I started writing the book, I wanted to write and not the book that people needed to hear or needed to read. And so I went back to the drawing board. I had many more conversations with people, hundreds of conversations over the next several years both in my online community and in person, meet ups and the conference that we host and I learned the things that we're really holding people back. You know, things like lacking support from your family, having trouble finding motivation, feeling like you don't have enough time,having difficulty focusing or being unsure of the right thing to pursue and just feeling overwhelmed with all of the possibilities. 

Sean McCabe: [00:32:41] I learned through many conversations that it's not just a lack of business knowledge or finance. It's things like these that are holding people back that are causing inaction and the reason that people feel stuck. And so I went I went back to writing this book with that in mind and I sort of reverse engineered it all around what people are really struggling with. And I came up with something that I feel like is, like this is the key for people to getting unstuck first. For someone who is a practical person who wants a step by step, down to earth guide on how to go from a day job to turning their side passion into something that's actually sustainable. That's what I have done with the Overlap book. 

Jon Moss: [00:33:27] That sounds like something that a lot of people, a lot of listeners will be interested in. And if people would like to buy the book or learn a little bit more. You very kindly said that there would be a special offer for the Remarkable Business Show listeners. So where do they need to go to? 

Sean McCabe: [00:33:45] So the book is actually launching on September 14th of 2017. And you can find it at overlapbook.com. But I wanted to do something special just for the listeners of this show and that is I want to give you the audio book for free. We recorded an audiobook. The book is also a hardcover book, it's clothbound, foil stamped. I mean we went all out. It's is high quality. You just want to run your hand over it. But we also recorded an audio book. And so for someone who's made it this far into the show you know I'm assuming that you like listening to podcasts and things like that. So I figured the listeners of this show might appreciate getting the audio book which is something were selling for twenty nine dollars at the launch. But if you go to overlapbook.com/remarkable, I'm going to give you a copy of that audio book for free. 

Jon Moss: [00:34:45] Sean that's incredibly generous. So thank you very very much for that and I'll make sure that that goes in the show notes as well. But I'm sure the listeners will really appreciate it. So thank you again. 

Sean McCabe: [00:34:56] Yeah I'm happy to do it because my goal with this book Jon is not to make money, it's to help more people get unstuck. And you know I want to share and spread this idea of overlap because it's such a it's a complex thing. You know, when you're trying to talk with someone about this and then hold a conversation, how do you describe being in a day job but wanting something more feeling like you have more potential. You're destined for greatness but you're trying to make it a sustainable thing. We're trying to figure out if you've chosen the right thing at all and there's all these words, thoughts and feelings that are tangled up in a mess. And it's hard to explain it to someone else let alone have a conversation. So my passion is really taking very complex systems and boiling them down and making it simple and giving people, arming them with the language to have a conversation about this to where now you know that all of that the one word for that is overlap. You know, you are overlapping and now that allows you to have a conversation with someone. 

Jon Moss: [00:36:01] And I think that that overlap is almost like a key for people who feel trapped in cages which are jobs or environments where they're just not flourishing and they're not happy, they're waking up on a Monday morning dreading to go to work. And I've seen that and experienced that with friends and colleagues that I've spoken to. There is nothing worse than going somewhere where you don't want to be. And I love the idea of the overlap that you can actually start to create a better future for yourself. 

Sean McCabe: [00:36:34] Well thank you so much Jon for giving me an opportunity to share that with people. I hope it helps. 

Jon Moss: [00:36:38] No my pleasure Sean. And last but not least - this is something I ask every guest. Is there a person, a product, a brand, or a service that you've recently seen or experience that has absolutely blown your socks off and you thought, Good job. Is there anything that comes to mind? 

Sean McCabe: [00:36:59] I just discovered this in new app just last week and I've been wanting something like this for a long time. But it wasn't until I was working on a project with someone on my team and I said we really need something. I find myself riding bullet lists and planning out things and sketching things here and there but I said we really need something that allows us to create, you know, flow charts or notes, or some kind of whiteboard application that you know, we can connect things and see the big picture but also do it live and work with, you know I have a remote team. A few people work in the same place but others in different states or different countries. And so we're in different times zones, different places. And I said "I need something where we can work together". So I had someone in my team do some research. He came back a few minutes later and he said "I found this great app. It's called Real Time Board." And I said okay let's check this out Real Time Board I have to tell you Jon, this is my new favorite app. It is so cool. 

Sean McCabe: [00:38:05] It's basically the word explain it is I feel like there's finally an app that works like my brain. I see in my mind a visual like complex visual or flow charts. You know, I see how things connect and how they relate. This allows me to very quickly I can, I can draw, I can create shapes, I can connect shapes and make notes, and draw arrows and everything is infinitely customizable but my favorite part is when my team member is on, I can see where his cursor is. And so if you've ever tried to have an audio conversation with someone and describe something visual, it takes so long you're like, "okay see the third step over and the fourth bullet beneath that one", well you know it's ridiculous. So now, I see where this cursor is and I just kind of shake my cursor and say "okay this box here, we need to connect this there" and it has saved us so much time and I feel like I feel like we can see where each other is thinking now. I'm just loving it. It's called Real Time Board. 

Jon Moss: [00:39:09] Real Time Board. I'm going to make sure that go in it goes in the show notes Sean so thank you for sharing that. And thank you so much for coming on the show today. I really really appreciate your time. You've been incredibly generous with the kind offer for the Overlap audio book. And if people want to connect with you online a little bit more could you just let people know where they can find you? 

Sean McCabe: [00:39:29] Absolutely. So pretty much anywhere you can find me at Seanwes, the handle I use. S e a n w e s. The website is also seanwes.com and then once again Overlapbook.com/remarkable. I'd love to give you this audio book. 

Jon Moss: [00:39:48] Fantastic. Thank you so much Sean. It's been a real pleasure having you on the show and I'll speak to you very soon. Thanks again. 

Sean McCabe: [00:39:54] Thanks Jon. 

VO: [00:39:57] The Remarkable Business Show. 

Jon Moss: [00:39:59] Thank you so much for appearing on the show Sean. I hope you enjoyed listening to our conversation. You can follow Sean on Twitter at @seanwes. And he's got a number of websites - seanwes.com and of course his new book which is overlap.com/remarkable. 

Jon Moss: [00:40:16] For those of you listening carefully you would have heard Sean say that you could get his audio book of his new book for free. Now I'm afraid I've got an apology for you because I'm running a couple of weeks late with getting this episode of the show out. That offer isn't available anymore. So I'm really sorry about that. However if you do buy the book you actually get the audio book for free and that's available up to the end of September. So head on over to overlapbook.com/remarkable. So that's overlapbook.com/remarkable. It really is worth buying. It's a superb book. 

Jon Moss: [00:40:54] I've got a question for you now. Have you recently experienced a remarkable business? Have you bought something that that's an amazing product.? Have you received some exemplary service or have you read something online and you thought that's pretty damn cool? Or even better, have you started a remarkable business lately? If you have, I'd love to hear from you. Please send me an email. My email address is jon@jonmoss.co.uk. That's J O N @ J O N M O S S dot co dot UK. And no I am not the football referee. I've just received some more abuse on Twitter at the weekend and it's always fun replying back to the people who think I've been reffing a game. No, I'm not nor am I the drummer from Culture Club. So yeah, drop me a line. I'd love to hear from you if you've experienced some remarkable service, You found a remarkable business and even better you are starting a remarkable business. So thank you. 

Jon Moss: [00:41:50] This episode's quote is from Arianna Huffington. Arianna was the co-founder and editor in chief of the Huffington Post which is now owned by AOL. In 2011 AOL acquired the post for 315 million dollars and made Arianna the president and editor in chief of The Huffington Post Media Group. Back in August 2016 it was announced that she would step down from a role at the post to devote her time to a new start up Thrive Global which is focused on health and wellness information. She's also written the bestselling book The Sleep Revolution. 

Jon Moss: [00:42:22] Her quote is "failure is not the opposite of success. It's part of the success." I really agree with this. Why? Because you are always going to be ahead of someone if you try something. And even if you fail it's fine, Okay? You're not going to start out wanting to fail. But most people don't even get that far. They just don't start. Talk is indeed cheap and average is just that. Okay? You probably have an idea right now that you may have been thinking about for months. Now what's actually stopping you? You could be a remarkable business and the Overlap book which Sean has launched recently is exactly what you might need. 

Jon Moss: [00:43:03] Isn't it nice when someone shares something super useful with you? Well I'm going to do that now and I'm going to try and do this in every future episode as well. So today have a look at useloom.com. It's a Chrome extension which allows you to record screen casts and I bet you're thinking "Screencast Jon, nothing special". but believe me, give it a go. 

Jon Moss: [00:43:26] It allows you to not only record whats happening on your screen but also your voice and also your face as well using your computer's camera. So it just makes it super personable and then you can actually just share it with one click. So it's perfect for customer support, maybe showing you folks how to do something on the computer. It's got a myriad of uses. So check it out. Useloom.com and let me know what you think. 

Jon Moss: [00:43:50] Something I've been trying over the past month or so has been Whole Body Cryotherapy and this is pretty remarkable and it's a remarkable business that a chap called Scott has set up in Hull. Now normally people have to travel quite a long way to find a whole body cryotherapy chamber. There's not many of them in the UK. But first of all you're probably thinking what on earth is Whole Body Cryotherapy. Well it's the action of exposing the body to temperatures ranging from minus 110 degrees C to minus 190 degrees C. 

Jon Moss: [00:44:21] Yep, it's pretty cold but it has a huge number of benefits stimulating the metabolism, injury recovery, sports performance, general wellness as well as having numerous other aesthetic effects. It really is something you should try especially if you'd like to lose maybe a little bit of weight because it burns those stubborn fat cells around the midriff and also its fantastic after sport. So some of the cycling that I do can be pretty intensive and going in the cryotherapy chamber afterwards can really help. 

Jon Moss: [00:44:53] If you'd like a little bit more information about what Scott's doing then head on over to his website which is chill 1. That's the numeral 1 dot co dot UK. Scott's facility is based within the Warners complex on Pickering road in the city and I'm sure he'd be delighted to show you what he's doing and talk you through the various benefits and also the packages that you can buy. I've probably had five or six sessions now and I'm certain that I'm seeing some benefits not only from the sports recovery aspect but also general well-being and I tell you what - you sleep like something else after you've had a session. 

Jon Moss: [00:45:28] One of the questions that I get asked a lot when I've told people that I've been for a session is how long is it. Well it's not long it's only three minutes. So you can just get change, you can go in without any clothes, or you can go in just in your boxer shorts or underwear or what have you and you wear some woolly boots, woolly socks, and some woolly gloves just to keep those extremities slightly warm and once you go in the chamber itself dries you slightly so is a little bit of a warming period. And then it gradually drops the temperature right down to near minus 190 degrees. If you're on that extreme setting and the good thing is that Scott will consult with you and make sure that you're comfortable with the temperature that its going to drop to. There's a number of different settings. 

Jon Moss: [00:46:10] Now I've tried the extreme setting and yet it's pretty cold but I've settled on minus 188 which is the strongest setting and you do that for three minutes and you come out and you feel fantastic. So it's always been on a bit of my bucket list cryotherapy I've listened to people like Wim Hof the IceMan and also Kevin Rose who's a big advocate of using cold therapy for every day well-being and also fitness recovery. So I'm delighted to have tried it. So have a look at chill1.co.uk and if you go in and see Scott or pick up the phone and speak to him,just let him know that I sent you. 

VO: [00:46:46] This edition is brought to you by Flywheel. Beautiful Wordpress hosting and management built for designers and agencies. 

Jon Moss: [00:46:54] Now Flywheel does rock solid hosting for WordPress. Now is a top deal for you. Okay, listen up. This is good. If you sign up for any of their annual hosting plans, I've got a way for you to get three months for free. All you need, to go to jonm.me/2flywheel. That's the numeral 2 flywheel. So that's Jon J O N M dot me Slash to flywheel and use the code jm2017 when you sign up. Boom! you will get three months on an annual plan. So thanks so much for the Flywheel Guys and girls for sorting this out. 

Jon Moss: [00:47:35] I'm delighted to say there are some more remarkable guests lined up for you in the next few months. 

Jon Moss: [00:47:40] Steve Leighton from Hasbean coffee - One of the pioneers in roasting and now finds his coffee from around the world dealing direct with the families and farmers growing it. 

Jon Moss: [00:47:50] Tyler Koblasa from CloudApp which is a bit of software I use every single day. Hugely useful and he gives a fascinating insight into the sort of start up that the CloudApp was. 

Jon Moss: [00:48:01] And Jeff Kofman from Trint. Trint is that amazing transcription software I've mentioned before and I use on all the show notes. 

Jon Moss: [00:48:08] We've also got Shawn Blanc who's a friend of Seanwes who's been on the show today of course and many more. If you haven't subscribed yet then click that button now. 

Jon Moss: [00:48:18] That just about wraps it up for Episode 7 so thank you for listening. I as always appreciate your valuable time. Now you may know that I write the regular newsletter called The Bulletin. And I'm glad to say that the open rate is still hovering well above 70 percent. And getting a lot of emails saying that you know people really enjoy reading it. Now the good thing is when you sign up you're going to get sent a series of emails as well packed full of information including my new e-book as well. And I cover productivity, diet, nutrition, some of my favourite apps and software. Honestly it's a good read. 

Jon Moss: [00:48:53] So head on over to the apple of my eye dot com. That's the letter I at the end slash newsletter and I'm also on Twitter. So say hello there @jonmoss. J O N M O S S user thirteen thousand five hundred and one no less. Okay so if you've enjoyed this episode, please can you let somebody know about it. Send them a message or an email, or tweet about the show I'll be very very grateful and you can share this episode from the browser. If you're listening to it on your laptop or on the desktop, or if you're in a podcast app, you can click share and send somebody the link. Thank you very much. Also please leave an honest review. We're starting to get some good reviews on iTunes for The Remarkable Business Show and it makes a big difference. Ratings and reviews, they make the show more visible and gives people confidence to have a listen and you can also get in touch with me - jon@jonmoss.co.uk Anything you write and e-mail me I promise I'll read. So until next time, enjoy life and make every single day count. 

VO: [00:49:54] Don't miss The Bulleting newsletter. Head on over to www.theappleofmyi/newsletter and sign up. You get a terrific free eBook too.