The Remarkable Business Show - Episode 3 Final.mp3 Jon: [00:00:00] This is the Remarkable Business show on Remarkable.f.m. I'm Jon Moss and this is Episode 3. VO: [00:00:07] Cyclist, skier, international fugitive and all round curious guy. Here's the latest addition of the Remarkable Business Show. Jon: [00:00:20] Okay let's go. Hey how are you? Thank you so much for joining me on the Remarkable Business show today. I'm delighted that we have a spot on guest who is going to give us a great insight into one of the biggest e-commerce platforms in the world. Shopify. My guest is Keir Whitaker who works with Shopify in the UK on their partnership's team as well as running a load of other interesting projects as well. Jon: [00:00:42] Shopify is a remarkable business which has helped transform selling online. They are also the sponsor of this episode. Thank you guys. So what are we going to learn. We're going to be covering the partner program for Shopify which is for designers and developers. We're going to look at what exactly is Shopify and how it can power your business and make your life easier. The history of Shopify how many people use it and that is incredible. Their culture, about remote working, the joys of using zoom on conference calls. We're also going to cover a little bit about Slack and also the focus for Shopify in 201. It's going to be a great insight into the success of people and brands using Shopify. We also touch on online in point of sale integrations for small businesses. We also talk about Keir's show, The Back to Front Show which is a web industry focussed podcast which I'd heartily recommend, the software he likes and one of his favourite brands. Enjoy our chat. Here's Keir... VO: [00:01:43] The Remarkable Business Show. Jon: [00:01:50] So I'm delighted to welcome the first guest which is a very good friend of mine or who is a really good friend of mine who I've know for a good few years who kindly came and spoke at the HD Live conference a few years ago. We've always kept in touch and that is Keir Whitaker. So welcome Keir. Keir: [00:02:08] Thank you Jon. Great to be here. Jon: [00:02:11] You know most welcome. It's our pleasure. So it's a absolute pleasure for you to be on. Looking at your good self right now we've been hooking up our equipment getting all the various technologies working and Skype seems to be behaving itself. So fingers crossed. Keir: [00:02:24] Just about, just about... Jon: [00:02:27] So Keir, telll me tell us tell the tell the audience a little bit about who you are and where are you speaking from right now.. [00:02:37] Yes. I'm based in Bath in the beautiful West country as we affectionally refer to it, moved down here about nearly nine years ago from London for work and we ended up, I think after about six seven years we realized we were probably staying so we ended up buying down here and happily settled, children at school and things like that. But I'm based I guess you'd say a remote worker or Shopify and particularly on the partnerships team. The bulk of my team are based in Ottawa, Canada and a few in Toronto and my colleagues I should say are based in Toronto and Montreal as well. But yes, so the team that I work on partnerships, is focussed on the partner program principally, which is the free program that's designed to help designers / developers. Mostly there are other types of partners as well. For the most designers and developers who use Shopify as the platform for their clients so kind of one person removed from the person selling online if you like. Jon: [00:03:30] And just in case someone is listening and thinking what Shopify which I know is a shocking, shocking theory that someone might not have heard of Shopify but you never know what is Shopify? Keir: [00:03:42] Not at all. Yes. Most people at the school gates think I work for Spotify and are often trying to cajole free a free music account out of me. So it's hosted e-commerce platform or a commerce platform as we call it now because not only you have the ability to sell online but we also have apps and hardware that allows you to sell in person. We also provide things like Shopify payments which allows you to take payments and avoid all that kind of merchant account and gateway. I mean things that we are all familiar with from a few years ago. It started about 10 years ago in Canada. It's got about three hundred twenty five thousand users / merchants across the world. I think 150 countries I forget where Wikipedia says is the official count on countries but it's there is somewhere between 150 and 160 I think so is nearly all of them but... Yes I've been working there for about five years now. Yes it's been interesting journey. Jon: [00:04:36] And it's got a great culture from what I read about certainly you know Shopify is always very well regarded and people talk around a little bit around the culture of the company and the fact that you're a remote worker even though they're based in Ottawa that there's you know lot of people based globally. But would you agree that culture is good? Keir: [00:04:55] Yeah absolutely. I mean they pay a lot of emphasis on the culture and the values the company sort of adheres to. The bulk of people. to be fair are based in one of the three or four big offices in Canada now there are a few outposts. There's one in San Francisco and it's what we call gurus, the support staff for the European sort of market are based in Southern Ireland as well. Keir: [00:05:14] But I would say probably 80 85 90 percent of the company in now is based in an office with the rest sort of spread around. But yeah we're kind of lucky I think in this day and age. People you know a few years ago weren't working remotely it was really difficult. You know we didn't have we had things like Skype but we didn't have all these kind of conferencing things like Zoom which is a great one which we kind of use. I don't know if you've seen it but it kind of lines you up as all Celebrity Squares in the app. So everyone's got equal billing. And so we have used that now even if there's 10 people in the office and two people remote so everyone's got kind of equal billing which I think is really nice. Keir: [00:05:44] Instead of being the big face on the big screen in the boardroom you know and things like Slack which has replaced email as the times zapper of choice. Jon: [00:05:53] The preferred method of communication... do you find Slack productive? Keir: [00:06:00] Errr... No I think it is a great comms tool. But now I think you know we have to fight the inbox and fight Slack. But I think it's necessary... I wouldn't say evil it's a necessary thing these days to be able to to share and have those conversations but it does it does feel like a... Yeah something that you kind of have to find time for. But I think some people are way more disciplined than I am perhaps but I think that's a one of the things have been remote. You feel like you need to be kind of available a bit more because people can't necessarily see they've got your head down and it's very respectful, you know the people just you can put your do not disturb on things like that and is generally well respected in timezones and things like that but the cultures really important, there's a lot of emphasis on sort of team building and personal growth and things like that.Yes pretty interesting company. Jon: [00:06:51] That's good to hear. And what's kind of on your and on Shopify's radar right now or sort of big stuff going on right now and sort of emphasis going into 2017? Keir: [00:07:04] Kind of scary to think this year is just flown by. I think speaking personally for the team that I work with we focus quite heavily on sort of education in the community side so that's trying to help people who maybe have come into the partner program and sort of helping them get up to speed on Shopify as a platform. I say with my my Shopify hat on that it's it's a very friendly platform to learn and easy to build with that everyone comes in with different preconceptions and different ideas and different skill levels. So we try and provide articles or courses or workshops or a small screencast to try and get people over those initial humps of trying to get together their thinking around how to work with the platform so we do a lot of that. There's a lot of training tools on the horizon as well. But also how can we sort of bring people working in this space together so very recently, a week ago in fact we held the first sort of one day conference for our partner ecosystem in the UK in Bristol. Keir: [00:08:00] It was great. It's kind of crazy doing it a week after Black Friday Cyber Monday and in December and in Bristol. But there's method in our madness. I think people from 10 maybe 11 countries all told come in from Europe. Bristol has a very easy to get to international airport. It's cheaper to host an event there than London. It happens to be 12 miles from where I live but that clearly wasn't a factor ;) Keir: [00:08:27] And we found this great event space in the shadows of the S.S. Great Britain they built a sort of nice conference suite that was all kind of plug and play so so were really, really well and we had a keynote and then four of our partners from Europe I should say, talking about kind of how to make money with apps, how to grow your business and there's much more focus on the partner stories because as I'm often saying, I think it's very disingenuous for me to show you how you can succeed with Shopify. I think it's way more genuine for someone who's actually been there done that, doing it come and share that journey, that knowledge and thankfully we know a lot of people who are willing to kind of open the kimono as they say North America and share those secrets and you know data and graphs and money and that kind of thing and it's I think it serves a few purposes when you when you get together like that. It opens your mind up to new ideas. It gives you a different perspective on how you could go about solving the same problem. It also validates maybe something that you might have been concerned about maybe you were thinking am I doing this the right way? These guys are doing it that way. Maybe I could tweak this, I could tweak that but it's good to know I'm kind of on the right trajectory and just bringing people together those conversations those serendipitous chats and ideas exchanges. Keir: [00:09:39] As you well know you've hosted many great events yourself and I think it's the sort of coffee track as my colleague calls it where you have the best sort of chats of the day and those kind of connections are made. So you know it was fantastic it was really good and hopefully we do a few more around the world over the next 12 months. Jon: [00:09:56] Brilliant. That's good. Good to hear. And you mentioned you had some of the brands and the people and the businesses who use Shopify. There are some very successful stores aren't there? Without breaking confidences obviously, there's people turning over some very respectable amounts of money aren't there and famous brands. Keir: [00:10:15] Yeah. Whenever someone says what brands are on Shopify my mind goes instantly blank. The ones I can always come back to are a lot of the reality stars in the States the Kardashians, the Jenners, the Kanyes - all these people are kind of quite well known Shopify uses. But it is very, very surprising how some things, yes the brands do really really well for the most part things like Herschel which I'm sure are familiar with, another Shopify one. A Book Apart. You know the well-known sort of a web educational book series they're on us as well. Keir: [00:10:44] It's the ones that take you sort of like wow really? We used to get this kind of e-mail that was top performing shops and you go in it literally it's a cliche but it would be some kind of Acme widget and their site looked, not the best. But they were turning over millions and literally had been online for like three months and you're like wow, this is incredible! Jon: [00:11:04] Great stories great story. It doesn't need to be a global brand either. That emphasis is important. You can set up super easily for you know, low monthly amounts and you're up and running you know very very quickly aren't you? Keir: [00:11:19] Yeah I think as well obviously we think about the online side but one of the things we mentioned at the event we did, a Day with Shopify last week was, how people are using point of sale POS. And there's a guy called Zack who runs sort of digital transformation at Bristol Museum group. He's doing some amazing stuff. He's literally kind of went forged his own path he's very very forward thinking and he basically installed POS into the museum group which for anyone who is familiar with Bristol knows is quite big but if you from the now sort of not familiar with the every might think it's just a couple of museums. I think he's like 12 / 15 is plenty. They literally installed POS, we had Shopify payments they were selling their tickets through it. They were using it in the storea and a lot of the people who were working the shop and never used an iPad before and so they were kind of as they were transferring systems they were taking the barcodes they were scanning them into POS, they're kind of loading up their system as they go. Yeah. Now powers all of their museums their ticketing and stores, also their donation desk and things like this and with their sort of chip and pin stuff in the tap. It's going great guns so I think you know it's very easy to talk about the great successes online. I think people are sort of using the technology in ways that you don't always expect and the Bristol Museum Group was a great example of that. And yeah I think really quite inspiring as well. Jon: [00:12:32] Yes. Great story. So I was super impressed with the stuff that you're doing with Shopify. It's great to hear that's going well and there are plans for for 2017. But you mentioned earlier when we were chatting that you also do a podcast yourself? Jon: [00:12:48] Let's let us know a little a little bit about that. Keir: [00:12:50] Yes. Yeah it's called The Back to Front Show. My friend Kieran and I Kieran Kieran we're often confused. Yes started it, a long time ago full four years ago nearly now and just as a bit of a bit of fun really. Originally the idea was like back end technology, front end technology but it's kind of massively deviated to grumpy people based in the West Country moaning about the web industry. Jon: [00:13:13] It's a great topic. Keir: [00:13:14] Occasionally discussing, mostly Kickstarter recently... He ran a successful campaign a few years ago and so were often sort of chatting over the sort of new things. I'm normally buying backpacks or wallets. I have cupboards full of them - it's a terrible vice. Jon: [00:13:32] I've just got a back pack from Kickstarter. Peak Design... Keir: [00:13:34] Oh you shouldn't be telling me this Jon - this is not this is not helping. Keir: [00:13:42] We get twitchy. Yeah. And but yeah it's fun. Hiatus is probably our middle name. We are up to 43 / 44 episodes, something like that episodes. But over 4 years so it's hardly that regular but it's fun and surprisingly we still seem to get sort of a thousand downloads a month, an episode I should say. We recently sort of had a bit of fun create these badges and stickers and stuff so instead of having sponsorship you can join the Back to Front Show Club for 7.50 and you get a badge and you get a little profile in our web devs' Rogues Gallery. Jon: [00:14:16] That sounds good. So if people want to have a look where do we listen? Keir: [00:14:26] It's just Back to Front Show.com. Jon: [00:14:26] They're available on all the usual channels... Keir: [00:14:28] Yes it's on iTunes and Stitcher and other things like that. Yes it's good fun. It's a nice medium I used to listen to a lot of podcasts and I think I don't know by yourself but I go through phases of really really listening to sort of five or six and really getting into it and then without realising it taking sort of a natural break from them and then sort of think you know listen something for ages and kind of get back into it. I can't work and listen to podcasts it's kind of when I'm walking somewhere that I find them most entertaining and there is always too much noise in the car to actually sort of pipe them through the audio there as well so it tend to be when I'm walking into town or something like that. Jon: [00:14:59] Very good. A couple of other questions kind of just rounding off our little session here. Books I know, you're a big fan of books. Keir: [00:15:11] I do like books. Jon: [00:15:12] I'm the same. Is there any any particular book or books that stood out for you in 2016? Any recommendations? Keir: [00:15:20] Yeah yeah. Really upped the sort of novel reading fiction reading the last couple of years. But again the mind went blank when you mentioned that. But I think a couple of the stick out for me kind of design focussed books actually. The first one was Arron Draplin's book - a book about pretty much everything which is kind of if you've ever seen him talk, he kind of charts his kind of history and design through his work. He's very entertaining speaker, co-founder of the Field Notes brand which I'm sure you're familiar with. And yeah I think you can find the Creative Morning talk he did in Portland a few years ago. Jon: [00:15:52] Yeah. Keir: [00:15:52] Which gives you a taste of what he's been up to he's very very good. Yeah he collated it all into a book and it's really fun to read is just... He's kind of got that kind of utility, utilitarian rather graphic design approach. He sees it as a job, he sees it as like you know helping the little guys win over the big guys, he's done some really interesting stuff. And there's a lot of tall tales and big yarns in there as well but that's really good. The other one I really enjoyed reading this year was I think he's called Designing TWA and I can give you the link afterwards but it's a book about the you with a terminal that's now unused at JFK right. I don't know if you've ever seen it. You come out I think it's terminal 5 there at the Jet Vlue one - you can kind of see it and it's this lovely 50s modernist probably not modernist, that era building that was designed. He's kind of commissioned just before the jet age came in and so all the kind of details are designed for the planes but you know prop planes and so they're... And they didn't really kind of work when the jet age came in and the requirements. But it's a beautiful beautiful building and it talks about the design process of that. Jon: [00:16:51] And it's not used now at all? Keir: [00:16:53] No, funnily enough, where I live you can fly to New York by Dublin. It's a really great route actually. You can clear immigration. They have a U.S. immigration there's a land domestically and I've been reading the book and then I suddenly walked out and hadn't joined the dots and realise those basically stood in front of it is like wow! So there's rumours that it will be a hotel or and occasion there's kind of architectural tours of it not ever coincided with a visit unfortunately, but yes is still there. And you can kind of... If you go to JFK you can certainly sort of walk around the perimeter were see. It is quite a fascinating building. I have a thing for airports and planes in kind of the jet age anyway. I think it's a fascinating era of design and technology. But yes it's a big kind of hardback book but it wasn't too expensive I think it was 20 pounds but yeah quite interesting so those are the two that spring to mind. Probably many more. Jon: [00:17:42] Sounds great. And any particular... We're we're on Skype right now. We're both on screen. Software is a big part of our lives in terms of what we used whether that's you know for life or work. Is there anything that has sprung out right now that you're using it really happy with something you've seen? Or anything that you just you know you just love using? Keir: [00:18:05] I think Zoom as I mentioned earlier is really great. It's like Google Hangouts. But look it's like a native app. You know you can there's various different ways that you can configure the screen so you can kind of have everyone on equal footing as I said so can like Celebrity Squares. That's been really useful. But beyond that I don't know I think I am still searching for the ultimate Mac email app. I've tried them all. Jon: [00:18:31] I'm in a similar boat, what are you using right now? Keir: [00:18:33] Airmail I think at the moment. Jon: [00:18:35] Okay I think I've tinkered with that and Spark and Polymail. Jon: [00:18:41] I always, always go back to a Mailplane which is essentially a wrapper to Google Apps and Gmail. So I can have all the different accounts I have in one window and then I sort of flick between them kind of on tabs and that for me I've used for many many years and can't seem to get away from. Which is no bad thing. But I do like the sort of design polish of things like Airmail. Jon: [00:19:08] It has come a long way. I remember trying it when it came out and it was a little bit prone to the occasional crash or slowness but they were really really well now. Funnily enough I don't use it on the phone. The iOS version, I stick with Mail for some reason which seems to me fine. I never got on with it on the Mac. But, I'm trying to think, Pocket is another thing I use all the time. The Pocket extension for sort of bookmarking which is deceivingly good because you kind of think I really must read that and then so you send it to a Pocket and it kind of goes out your head and then you think oh come around to that and then you look in and you kind of book marked maybe 50 to 100 articles and you are never going to happen never going to happen. Jon: [00:19:48] But you could you I'm sure you just have those afternoons where you've got nothing to do and you could just sit down and have a coffee and read all your Pocket stuff. Or I'm guessing if you like me that's a rare occurrence. Keir: [00:19:58] Yeah I think we both fall into the same same boat there. Jon: [00:20:01] I'm using Instapaper. I haven't used Pocket. I'm a big Instapaper fan which has recently been bought by Pinterest I think and gone free. So you don't have to even pay now. Keir: [00:20:13] Oh okay. That's interesting. Wasn't that bought by Betaworks a while ago? Jon: [00:20:22] It was yes, and now purchased by Pinterest. Keir: [00:20:22] That's interesting. I always find those acquisitions really fascinating because you kind of think well what's the angle? What would it be? Jon: [00:20:27] Don't get rid of it. Here's the thing I say - don't sunset it! Don't get rid of something people love. Jon: [00:20:34] And talking of things people love outside of our normal kind of tech space and software any brands or companies that you think wow, they're doing a great job right now whether that's branding, marketing or probably product or service? Anything in the real world outside of our... Keir: [00:20:53] Yeah. IRL. Yeah. I guess the one I always come back to is Monocle, which I guess fpr a lot of people could be a bit Marmite you know love it or hate it. But I've always been in the you know in the former camp. Jon: [00:21:03] Yeah me too. Keir: [00:21:03] I think the attention to detail about how they can span things like magazines and books, publishing, audio, short films, events and sort of having followed that for the last 10 years. The majority of their output I wouldn't buy principally because I don't necessarily need the gold plated coaster for my coffee cup and most of it I cannot afford secondly but I think just the way that they've kind of built that brand and you know it has coffee shops, it has kind of clothing and you wouldn't necessarily throw all those things in a hat and think it would work. But somehow it does. And you buy into that kind of lifestyle. It's a hugely overused term but you are buying into that. Jon: [00:21:43] They sell a very nice lifestyle don't you, which we can aspire to! Keir: [00:21:51] And I think the way they've kind of clearly have defined what sort of the business trajectory most people are thinking through traditional media publishing you know whether it be audio and you know selling ads or sponsorships for podcasts which you know they call it radio but effectively it's podcasting and they're the way that they still work with brands throughout their magazine and they're sort of smaller supplement things is really quite interesting. I think no one's really emulated it as well or perhaps tried and the kind of numbers on their subscriptions are you actually pay more for a subscription if you buy in the shops which is kind of crazy. Keir: [00:22:29] Yeah again you think well that's perfectly fine of course, I'll just pay that. You know I bought some books and they haven't arrived and things like that and the customer service is always get a notch. Jon: [00:22:37] I agree. Keir: [00:22:38] It's just it's very easy to sort of suspend reality in dive into that world for a half an hour a day. Jon: [00:22:45] So it's a nice world to be in isn't it. It is. Jon: [00:22:48] Well listen it's been absolutely fantastic catching up with you. Always nice to chat and really appreciate your time and also really appreciate Shopify getting involved from the agency partner point of view. So yeah the partnerships, if people would like any more information around Shopify, I'm sure Keir would be very happy to potentially help but obviously they have a fantastic website Shopify dot com and we're doing encouraged you to give it a go. Keir: [00:23:19] Yeah. If you want the more partners if you're a designer and developer slap on slash partners at the end and you get all the details that you can get involved in that way as well. So yeah thanks for having me Jon it's been a real pleasure. Jon: [00:23:28] Nice to catch up and ask ft you very soon. Thank you again. Keir: [00:23:32] Take care. All the best. VO: [00:23:34] This edition is brought to you by Shopify. An e-commerce platform made for you. Jon: [00:23:39] It was great to chat with Keir. You can follow. We're on Twitter @ Keir Whitaker. You can also find a wealth of information on his bio page on the show site which you can see at a remarkable.fm. VO: [00:23:52] The Remarkable Business Show! Jon: [00:23:54] I think I'm probably doing 80 percent plus shopping online now. Two specific reasons convenience and of course ease of access to interesting brands and products. The vast majority of the items I'm buying are not available in local shops. Some might be in a big city, London for example but most won't be. That's the beauty of the Internet access to anything, which of course can be rather dangerous. Jon: [00:24:21] So the quote of the episode. This show's quote is from an extremely interesting guy called Paul Graham. Paul is a programmer writer and investor. In 1995 he and another guy called Robert Morris started Viaweb, the first software as a service company. That was actually acquired by Yahoo in 98 where it became the Yahoo store and in 2001 he started publishing essays on paulgraham.com. So in 2015 he had 34 million page views. So in 2005 he and Jessica Livingston and Robert Morris and Trevor Blackwell started a company you may have already heard of: Y Combinator - the very first new type of start up incubator. Jon: [00:25:05] Since then Y Combinator has gone on to fund over 1000 start ups including some you've probably heard of Dropbox, Air BNB, Stripe and Reddit. You can follow Paul Graham on Twitter @PaulG. Jon: [00:25:21] So what's his quote? I love this: "Relentlessly prune B.S.. Don’t wait to do things that matter and savour the time you have. That's what you do when life is short." Jon: [00:25:34] I've actually started signing off some of my e-mails with the words enjoy today because tomorrow it is gone forever. Just think about that for a moment. Every day that we spend doing something that you’re not enjoying... it is wasted. It fits very well with Paul's quote. Jon: [00:25:49] So The Bulletin! I recently sent out the very first Bulletin or rather the first proper newsletter in the Bulletin and had some great feedback from people. If you haven't signed up then head on over to theappleofmyi.com/newsletter. You pop in your name and email address and you’ll immediately get sent my free e-book on tools and tips to make you more productive and happier. Jon: [00:26:10] Its going to solve everything in your life in an instant. Okay maybe not, but people seem to like it and they also seem to like the emails. Jon: [00:26:17] Ive had some lovely feedback from people... Xylon who is a good friend of mine in California. He says "I thoroughly enjoyed the bulletin. Its contents always add value and I can rely on something in there being relevant to me." So thank you Xylon. Jon: [00:26:30] Ive also had a fantastic quote from my friend Neil. "I really enjoy reading Jon's bulletins full of super simple and super effective ideas covering all aspects of work rest and play and very easy to apply. Jon is one of life's great guys always inspired when we have a coffee in Harry's. Everyone should have a Jon in their world. Jon: [00:26:49] Okay Im really really getting warm and blushing here but I really do appreciate the feedback. Thank you. Jon: [00:26:56] The first edition of The Bulletin covered some fascinating topics. I wrote about Elon Musk and his 2017 TED Talk plus all about the company he's just set up called the Boring Company. Jon: [00:27:08] Thieves who also steal warships from the bottom of the sea. That's another article I linked to which is incredibly interesting and also a spot on short film about a guy building an iPhone from scratch in the electronic markets of Sheng Zen. That is one film worth watching. Astonishingly good. Jon: [00:27:26] Also a link to a great article about a local company. Wren Kitchens who really are actually a tech company. They're based just over the Humber Bridge in Barton upon Humber and they're actively looking for developers. They have an incredible dev team there. Jon: [00:27:41] Plus they talk about a few brands and services I discover and recommend just park.com is one of those and also a new browser called Brave. So as you can see there's a load of content for everyone and I really try and provide value in the Bulletin emails. Jon: [00:27:56] Speaking of new services I've found there is something I would recommend you have a look at. Being able to schedule calls and meetings online. So scheduling appointments especially calls, can be the most incredible waste of time to and fro to and fro. No I can't do it then. What about tomorrow? What about that day? No I am having my hair cut. You know the drill. I bet you are thinking of precisely this scenario that has happened in the past few days. Horrendous. There are many solutions actually available to you online though. I've been using one called Schedule Once for a while which is pretty good. I've just been trying vyte.in that's V Y T E dot IN for a little while but the one I found this week (I know always something new to find) is calendly.com Jon: [00:28:48] This allows you to set up specific call and meeting types. Super simple to use. And importantly. Looks fantastic. They've really thought about the design - mobile desktop or tablet. It works well. Check it out calendly.com. VO: [00:29:02] Are you on Twitter? Then follow Jon at @jonmoss. Jon: [00:29:06] Alright! Thank you as always. Please do let people know about the Remarkable Business show. Just tell them to head on over to remarkable.f.m. or search for the show or me on their favourite podcast app. Something like Stitcher, Pocket casts and of course Overcast. Look out for the next few episodes. I've got some amazing guests lined up for you. Jon: [00:29:28] I'd like to thank Shopify and Keir once again for sponsoring the show today. Thank you so much guys. And make sure you check out Shopify.com. All your e-commerce needs. So enjoy life and make every day count. It really is important. Thank you so much for listening. I really appreciate your valuable time. You can follow me @jonmoss on Twitter and I'll see you very soon. VO: [00:29:53] Don't miss the bulletin newsletter. Head on over to www.theappleofmyi.com/newsletter. You get a terrific free book too.