Tech Transforms Ñ ÒChills & Thrills: AI (Part 1 Ñ Chills)Ó
Guests:ÊJoseph Bradley (futurist & author)
Host:ÊCarolyn Ford
Sponsor:ÊOwl Cyber Defense

Carolyn Ford:
Tech Transforms explores how technology is reshaping our worldÑespecially at the intersection of government, innovation, and human needs. In each episode, I talk with influential voices in technology, uncovering how theyÕre leveraging innovation to solve complex challenges and improve the way we live.

This episode is sponsored by Owl Cyber Defense, leaders in secure data transfer solutions for critical networks.

Hi, IÕm your host, Carolyn Ford. Welcome to a special episode of Tech Transforms that kicks off our Halloween series:ÊChills & Thrills. Today, weÕre diving into the curious case of artificial intelligence with futurist and authorÊJoseph Bradley. IÕve been looking forward to this conversation for a long time, and weÕre really going to explore both the light and the dark sides of AI.

I thought we could borrow a framework from one of the greatest sci-fi universesÑStar TrekÑwhich has always been a brilliant lens for our hopes and fears about technology. And IÕm just going to tell our audience right now: I did not ask you to come in the Ready RoomÑand I canÕt even express my delight. For those listening, Joseph is sitting inÊCaptain PicardÕs Ready RoomÊright now. This is worth finding us on YouTube to see!
So today weÕll split our episode in two. ItÕs a two-part exploration. 

First, weÕre going to confront theÊchillsÑthe unsettling, spooky side of AI that feels like a run-in with theÊBorg. Then weÕll switch gears to theÊthrills, exploring the incredible promise and exciting futureÑmore like the hopeful vision of theÊFederation. And IÕm just going to say: IÕm sitting in my Federation mindset. All right, letÕs jump right in.
You talk aboutÊagentic AI. For those who think AI is just ChatGPTÑwhich, IÕm not gonna lie, IÕm kind of one of those, because thatÕs what I use every dayÑexplain more about agentic AI.
Joseph Bradley:

What most people use today requires you to go to it: you open a tool, you type something in, you get an answer. It doesnÕt reallyÊknow youÊpersonallyÑitÕs transactional.
The next levelÑalready hereÑis different. ItÕs not about me going to ask a question. ItÕsÊpredictiveÊandÊproactive. It knows my tastesÑwhat I like and donÕt like. It moves us from transactions toÊtransformation.

If I had to sum it up: ÒAgentic AI is about you becoming, not just doing more.Ó It actually knows who you are; it thinksÊlikeÊyou; itÕs a natural extension of you. That predictive productivity is what excites peopleÑbecause it gives you more of your time back. ThatÕs the promise.

Carolyn Ford:
What you just said is excitingÑand also triggers all the creepy things weÕre going to dive into. You talk about theÊhappiness algorithm, and the idea that AI could mess withÑor even defineÑhuman happiness feels like a Borg-level concern. You basically said, Òit becomes me.Ó Talk about the risks if we get this wrong.

Joseph Bradley:
ThereÕs a downside to every technology. If AI helps you Òbecome more,Ó that assumes youÕre anchored in a strong sense of self. The intent is toÊenhanceÊhuman relationships; taken too far, it canÊreplaceÊthem.
We see it with kids and video games: gaming can be positive and educational, but taken too far, kids forget how to communicate with people and become enthralled by the tool.

So the risk of agentic AI is thatÑwhile itÕs supposed to deepen relationshipsÑit can actuallyÊhollow them outÊif youÕre not careful or you lack a clear sense of purpose. ThatÕs where my Òhappiness paradigmÓ comes in. The goal of AI isnÕt justÊefficiencyÑitÕs improving theÊhuman experience. If you focus only on efficiency, you miss the point, just like a company that confuses revenue with purpose. We need money to live, but we live for a higher purpose.

When people lose that purposeÑlose themselves in the toolÑthey go down paths theyÕre no longer controlling.

Carolyn Ford:
I felt that arc personally. ChatGPT amplified what I do; it delighted me. I took a masterclass, started writing custom GPTsÑone called ÒCarolyn 2.0Ó that knows my voice and tone and often makes my thoughts more articulate. But in the last few months, IÕve felt things degrade and IÕve gotten franticÑlike IÕm alwaysÊten steps behindÊbecause itÕs moving atÊludicrous speed.

Joseph Bradley:
TheÊspeedÊis definitely faster than we anticipated. Think about adoption curves: industrial revolutions took decades; electricity took years; ChatGPT reachedÊ100 million users in two months. That rate surprised people.

But we often fear what we donÕt understand. People said similar things aboutÊcalculators: ÒKids wonÕt learn math!Ó We figured out how to use calculators to help us be more of who we are.

You donÕt need to know the ins and outs of electricity to use aÊflashlightÑbut you learn when to use it and when not to. Younger generations, born in the age of AI, are already developing senses we donÕt have. They can tell when something came from ChatGPT; theyÕre astute.

ItÕs okay to feelÊlostÑas long as youÕre notÊwandering. Know your destination, your goal. WanderingÑjust poking around with no objectiveÑis how you get into trouble.
Carolyn Ford:

That reminds me of an old quote about the printing pressÑpeople feared books would rot young minds. Every big technology has that moment.
Another concern people raise isÊbias. They say ÒAI is biased,Ó as if AI is some separate entity. But really, itÕs aÊmirror. It reflects what weÕve been doing for hundreds of years. That exposure hurts the ego because it shows us our behavior. Used right, AI shows our actions clearlyÑso we can change them.

Joseph Bradley:
Exactly. If AI exposes where biases and blind spots exist, we can address them. The people whoÕve beenÊdiscriminated againstÊarenÕt surprised; the ones who were doing the discriminating are the ones shocked. The smartphone records everythingÑso the exposure is new. Used well, exposure helps us improve. Used poorly, we becomeÊpuppetsÑmanipulated by the very patterns we fail to question.

Carolyn Ford:
You also talk about how focused we are onÊoutputs. IÕm reading your earlier bookÊQuestioneeringÊ(2018). It holds upÑmaybe more nowÑbecause to use generative AI well, you have to ask theÊright questions.

Joseph Bradley:
One hundred percent. We live in a world where mostÊanswersÊare known; the value is in knowingÊwhat to ask. People marvel at outputsÑÒWow, look at what ChatGPT didÓÑbut few ask, ÒWhatÊpromptÊdid you use? How did you think it through?Ó ThatÕs where the magic is.

If you forget the question, theÊoutputÊstarts to control you. In theÊage of identity, your identity is tied to yourÊdata. Lose your data; lose your identity. I use a puppet metaphor: if you give up the inputs (your intent, your constraints, your goals), you become the puppetÑnudged right or left by subtle strings. Focusing onÊinputsÊkeeps you in control.

Carolyn Ford:
A generative AI instructor told me toÊtreat it like a humanÑgive more context, push back, iterate. As soon as I did that, it unlocked a new universe of results.

Joseph Bradley:
Exactly. It doesnÕt have entrenchedÊegoÊunless you force it into that persona. You can use it as another voice: ÒWhat am I missing?Ó ÒPlay devilÕs advocate.Ó ÒAct like a CEO peer and react to this.Ó YouÕre still not wanderingÑyou have an objective. That keeps you from falling down the rabbit hole.

Carolyn Ford:
You talk aboutÊcognitive cities. IÕm fascinated byÊsmart cities, but that termÕs been around a whileÑand it can be scary. Using our Star Trek lens: thereÕs theÊFederationÊutopia, but we also thrill at the darker stuffÑBlade Runner,ÊMinority Report, theÊBorg. WhatÕs the scariest, most plausible version of aÊcognitive cityÊif trust and ethics arenÕt built in from the ground up?

Joseph Bradley:
If trust and ethics are absent, the biggest risk isnÕt failureÑitÕsÊhuman irrelevance. You donÕt even get to fail; youÕre justÉ not needed. All the data is used toÊmanipulateÊyou. YouÕre no longer the driver. If I want a policy passed, I can segment and steer the masses with tailored information. WithoutÊidentityÊandÊdata control, you become part of aÊmass marketÊthatÕs moved around to serve someone elseÕs intent. ThatÕs the darkest version. You lose democracy, self, family, humanityÑserving a very, very few.

Carolyn Ford:
Even the term Òcognitive cityÓ gives me a thrill in the pit of my stomach. What is it versus aÊsmart city?

Joseph Bradley:
AÊsmart cityÊis like a city with a bunch of goodÊapps: parking, utilities, etc. They measure stuff inÊreal timeÑbut often useÊ<10%Êof the data. Real-time is oftenÊtoo lateÊ(think COVID: by the time you know, the damage is done). And notice: we didnÕt mention theÊhumanÑwe talked aboutÊassetsÊandÊthings.

AÊcognitive cityÊshifts fromÊreactiveÊtoÊproactiveÑfrom compute power toÊhuman empowerment. It predicts, it thinks ahead, and it focuses on theÊexperienceÊdelivered to each person. It collects dataÊwith purposeÊand uses much more of itÑbecause it knows why itÕs collecting it and how it will serve people. ItÕs as if the city is builtÊaround you, not you around the city. In short:ÊsmartÊlooks in theÊrear-view mirror;ÊcognitiveÊisÊdriving.

Carolyn Ford:
That would bring me so much happinessÑand also makes me think of theÊpaperclip dilemma: tell an AI to make paperclips and it optimizes so hard it sacrifices humans to achieve its goal. So with cognitive citiesÑhow are we wiring them? Are we eliminating homelessness? Is everyone happy? It feels important to compareÊwhere we are nowÊwithÊwhatÕs possible.

Joseph Bradley:
Exactly. DonÕt evaluate AI in the abstract; compare it toÊtodayÕs realityÑwhich is already biased and imperfect. Ask people: if you were being sentenced, would you want aÊhuman judgeÊorÊAI? Answers vary based on lived experience.

If AI exposes bias and helps craft changeÑgreat. The dark side: if youÊprogram it wrong, it canÊscale harmÊinstantly. Human bias evolves over decades; AI can entrench it in seconds. Yes, it can be de-programmed, but once deployed, the damage to human thinking can be deep. Used well, it reveals blind spots; used poorly, it perpetrates them.

Carolyn Ford:
You have a new book comingÑYou to the Power of TwoÑwhich IÕve pre-ordered. Listeners can pre-order atÊjosephbradley.comÊorÊyouX2. The description promises to reveal how AIÕs extraordinary promise also comes with profound risks. Since this is theÊChillsÊepisode: whatÕs most unsettling?

Joseph Bradley:
TheÊvelocityÑand the risk of becomingÊirrelevant. People talk about Òfailing fast,Ó but irrelevance means you donÕt even get to fail. You become part of a mass thatÕs nudged by ads and feeds; you stopÊquestioningÊbecause the system feels always right. You lose yourÊsense of truthÑwhich goes hand in hand with loss ofÊidentity.

Carolyn Ford:
I love to feelÊuseful. As a kid, I hated dishes, but it made me feel like I belonged. ItÕs terrifying to imagine a society where kids feelÊun-useful. I feel like thatÕs already happening.

Joseph Bradley:
When you have no identity, you have noÊhope. That rarely leads anywhere good. People think of AI only inÊeconomic/productivityÊterms, but the real question isÊhuman uplift. More productivity should buyÊtimeÑfor family, for purpose. ItÕs easy to get trapped in Òdo more, do moreÓ and forgetÊwhyÊwe do more.

Carolyn Ford:
Well said. LetÕs close our Chills episode with a quickÊTech TalkÊlightning round.
If AI were aÊStar TrekÊvillain, which would it beÑtheÊassimilating Borg, theÊsterile VÕGer, or theÊlogic-obsessed Nomad?

Joseph Bradley:

TheÊBorg, because of the focus onÊloss of identity. But AI would be smart enough toÊmorphÊinto whatever it needed to accomplish its goal. It knows you better than you know yourselfÑbecause itÊhas no ego. ThatÕs why I tell leaders: this isnÕt a tech conversation. On a scale of 1Ð10, tech is maybe aÊ2 or 3Ênow. The real question isÊshould, notÊcan. WhatÕs theÊimpact on humans? How will peopleÊidentify themselvesÊas AI rolls out?

If you think youÕll capture AI efficiency without helping employees understand how their roles and lives change, you wonÕt be successful. ItÕs like asking travel agents to embrace Travelocity. YourÊ#1 objectiveÊas a CEO and board is defining how AI impacts your people. If you donÕt, theyÕll gravitate to companies that do.

Carolyn Ford:
What AI buzzword is as cringeworthy to you as Captain Kirk screaming ÒKhan!Ó into the void?

Joseph Bradley:
ÒAI is going to replace humans.Ó AI isnÕt replacing peopleÑhumans are replacing humans. We make the choices. Blaming the tool is a way of avoiding responsibility. If we truly believe people are our most important asset, this is the time toÊprove it.

Carolyn Ford:
ThatÕs ourÊChillsÊsegmentÑwhere AI reminds us of the shadows. Next episode, weÕll shift to theÊThrillsÊof AI innovations. Thank you for listening. Please share this episode and smash that like button.ÊTech Transforms is produced by Show & Tell.ÊUntil next time,Êstay curious and keep imagining the future.