Introduction Carolyn Ford: This was a rare one for me. An episode we recorded in person, and honestly, it was a career highlight. I sat down with Carey Lohrenz, one of the first women to fly the F 14 Tomcat. Best selling author of Span of Control, and a fantastic keynote speaker. This conversation isn't about fighter jets or chest thumping war stories. It's about what happens when everything is on fire, the calendar is packed, and someone still expects you to deliver, like this was all very manageable. Carey has lived that reality. At 30,000 feet, at night, trying to land on a moving aircraft Careyr, which frankly makes most corporate high pressure environments, puts them into a little more perspective. We talk about why stress isn't a design flaw, why just focus harder is not a strategy and how elite performers survive by narrowing their attention to the few things that actually matter, especially when the noise gets loud and the deck starts moving. There's wisdom here, there's humor, and there are a few moments that may quietly reframe how you think about leadership, teamwork, and overwhelm. Without asking you to become a morning person or download yet another productivity app. This episode is for anyone who's leading, juggling, or just trying to stay upright while things feel a little chaotic. Carolyn Ford: Well, Carey, I want to start with the title of your your latest book, Span Up Control. Talk to me more about the title, where it comes from and why it matters so much to you. Carey Lohrenz: So, span of control is not just about how most of us understand it from an organizational chart perspective or a hierarchy. It's more about this mindset or a tool of, what do you focus on when you're really overwhelmed, when you're under pressure, and you still want to be successful? I think even those of us who maybe have a high performing background and maybe people who are trying to become a high performer don't realize that with that being on that journey, there are going to be times that you are going to feel turbulence. You are going to feel fear. You are going to be vulnerable. How can you be successful anyway? So it came to me, not only based on my background in the Navy, but definitely during a really hard personal time, when I was really, really busy working about my mom ended up getting really sick. And I had to figure out how do I not circle the drain? How do I still get done the things that need to get done when I'm going through something that is really devastating. But yet, the outside of that personal circle still expects me to show up and perform without knowing anything that's happening. So when things are really complex or feel really heavy and really hard, what can you do to be successful anyway? And I call that span of control. So how do you focus on your span of control? Carolyn Ford: Mm hmm. Your book was so relatable for me. From the opening pages where you were vulnerable enough to talk about your personal life, I was just like, wow, this person is human and willing to share it, and it made me, my grandmother, a remarkable woman. She's gone now., but still with me all the time, and she told me when I was a teenager, probably. She said, you know, I just don't worry about the things I can't control. And I just focus on the things that I can. That was a mantra for me, and still to this day gets me through many days, I'm like, "Can I control this? Nope, okay, then I'm gonna focus on this." And you boiled it down and made it so succinct. It was just beautiful, so thank you. Carey Lohrenz: Well, I appreciate that, and how lucky were you to have such an amazing grandmother, and also, that's not exactly the way I'm wired. I am not, I do not have a personality that I can say, okay, I'm just not going to worry about that, I can't control that. I am a world class risk manager and catastrophizer. So immediately, my brain always goes to, what is the worst thing that could happen? What if this happens? What if this happens? Now, in my professional career, and otherwise, I think that is really helped to my advantage, because I'm also fortunate enough to be very solutions oriented, that the reason I try to think about all the ways or I just automatically think about all the ways things can go wrong is because I'm trying to figure out, okay, what would I do in that worst case scenario? Or even if I'm watching, like, an action movie or I don't know, Jason Bourne movie, I'm like, How would I handle that? Would I do that? Could I get the windshield popped out fast? Like, so I'm always thinking about these things. So I'm not blessed with the gift of being able to emotionally detach myself from something and say, well, I'm just not going to focus on that. I don't have that. I have to very intentionally rework on, reorienting my focus and saying, "Okay, what can I control?" Mm hmm. It's over there, whatever that bad thing is, is still there, and I'm aware of it, but I just, to try to stay positive and stay hopeful and stay forward moving and being solutions oriented is why, why I have a tattoo. Carolyn Ford: And I love in the book you talk about help me with the quote, because I don't have it in front of me, but you say something to the effect that, you know, fighter pilots are not born able to do these things and to, I think it's a critical thinking and task, you know, all of these in high stress situations, you train yourselves to do it, the right. Carey Lohrenz: That's right, yeah, so none of us are really born that way to manage overwhelming task overload or task saturation, which is why it's all very relatable to all of us, the fighter flight syndrome, right? Because that is how we're hardwired to survive. So, when you become stressed or you become overwhelmed, it's normal to either want to shrink down or run away. That is a 100% workable solution generally speaking to keep you safe when a tiger is chasing you. But for those of us who actually have to get a job done, still in a really stressful situation, you have to learn those skill sets, and you don't go from having no skills to flying at mop two with your hair on fire, being able to do that. It's all building blocks, and it's starting with no foundation and then being put in a scenario where maybe it's learning how to use a checklist. Maybe it's learning how to memorize a checklist. Maybe then it's experiencing something that's not so great, where you thought you didn't need a checklist, or you skipped it. That brings you back to square one about this is why we use a checklist. Because even really smart people forget really important things. Carolyn Ford: That's right. Carey Lohrenz: So it's having those building blocks that then get you to the point where when you're in a really dynamic environment, your brain and your capacity to prioritize is much stronger than it was when you started out. So that the goal is per hopefully, let's just use aviation metaphors, that whether you're a fighter pilot flying on and off an aircraft Careyr or navy or a helicopter pilot flying at night and the deck is moving, that no matter what conversations you had earlier, no matter what mechanical issues you had earlier, when it comes to those last few seconds, right before you land, you have the skill set and the capacity to set everything else aside and make those decisions that determine whether or not you're gonna land safely and go home or not. But you don't start off knowing those things. So it's all it's all that building block, skill set to get you to that point. Carolyn Ford: Well, and in the book you talk about, well, for our listeners, let's just set the level set here. You are the first female Tomcat fighter pilot. Is that right? Carey Lohrenz: Yep. That is correct. First female F-14 Tomcat pilot in the Navy. Carolyn Ford: Okay, so, yeah. Side bar here. One of my core memories. My dad took me to Hill Air Force Base to see the Blue Angels fly. And they let you get in the cockpit of an F-14. It was the most amazing thing. Carey Lohrenz: So, yes, in essence, what happens and what you think about, if you think about you've ever seen a flock of geese or birds fly, they're always in a V formation. And part of that is because they get lift from each other, and they always take turns. So when the front of the V formation starts getting tired, then they move back. So they take turns sharing that collaboration load, if you will, to get somewhere. Carey Lohrenz: So when we look at even how we fly, whether it's a flight of two, you know, just regular pilots, not high performance demonstration pilots, or you look at the Blue Angels, it's all about how do you support each other to get where you need to go, safely, effectively, and more often than not, as fast as you can. And it's that shared risk management and teamwork, because when you think about it, whether you're a goose trying to get south because it's going to be 35 below or you're a Blue Angel or you're just a regular fighter pilot, we can't see behind us, right? We've got limited mobility, but when you have a wingman who can look behind you, now you have mutual support. Carolyn Ford: So it's always building into how we maneuver, how we move, how we operate. How can you be the best teammate that you can be? How can you share the load so that you get to where you want to go safely and effectively? Carey Lohrenz: Exactly. Carolyn Ford: And the data that you share, I think you said it's 71% further because they fly in this pattern. I also loved the fact that we hear the honking, mostly at night, because that's when they start to get tired. Carey Lohrenz: Yes. And they're cheering each other on. Carolyn Ford: I know, isn't that— I started to cry a little bit. I thought of my team. Each one of my team members takes turns moving into the lead and creating that lift for the rest of us. And when they get tired, it's time for the next one to move in. Carey Lohrenz: And it's funny, because right now, I don't think you could find an organization or a team that is not feeling overwhelmed. And one of the first things that goes is that people stop celebrating each other’s success. Carey Lohrenz: And yet nobody, nobody ever does not want to hear thank you or well done, or good job. We cannot say it enough. And that's not about participation trophies or everybody gets Oreos and oranges after a good quarter, but it is taking the time to acknowledge, hey, job well done. That was tough. Carolyn Ford: That's right. Carey Lohrenz: And we are social people and we need each other. And also, like, what's the point? If we don't find the joy in what we do, then why are we doing it? Carolyn Ford: Yeah. Carey Lohrenz: We, so this is a bit of a story. If you have ever gone deep into the history of prisoners of war, definitely in the aviation community, dark humor can be a big factor, because we can be put in really extreme situations where somehow you have to find your humor so that you don't fall apart. And there’s one story from years ago—the folks who were being held prisoners of war at the Hilton Hanoi told their captors that November 10th was National Donut Day in the U.S. When that day came, the guards gave them something that resembled a donut, thinking they were messing with them—but what the guards didn’t know was that it was actually the Marine Corps birthday. So the prisoners got this small psychological win. And that’s the point—how do you find some sense of fun, even in difficult environments? If you’re not having some fun at work, you’re not doing it right. And your team won’t be high performing for long. ________________ Carolyn Ford: And I also love your approach—you don’t take a Pollyanna view of life. You’re very direct about what actually works. So talk about the practical steps you use to manage stress, because we don’t get rid of stress, and we don’t really want to. Carey Lohrenz: Right. And that is one thing that kind of drives me crazy—people who push this idea of a stress-free environment. All performance research shows you need some level of stress to perform. It’s when it becomes overwhelming that you run into shutdown, burnout, and collapse. For me, when I’ve experienced overwhelming stress, it’s usually because I thought I could manage everything. I thought I could do it all. And what helps me reset is going back to basics. That means: - Saying no (and remembering that no is a complete answer) - Writing down the top three things I need to focus on today I’ll literally write those three things on a Post-it and put it on my laptop or phone. Because if I get even one of those things done, I feel like I have some agency again. And that’s the key—feeling like you have some control. Because when people write down 15 or 20 things, those cannot all be the most important things. Pressure reveals your focus. And when leaders are under pressure, you see very quickly what they actually prioritize. ________________ Carolyn Ford: Let’s talk about landing on an aircraft Careyr, because this is where it all comes together. Carey Lohrenz: So landing a high-speed fighter on an aircraft Careyr at night is one of the hardest things to do in aviation. The ship is moving, the wind is shifting, and you’re trying to land on what is essentially a moving postage stamp in the dark. What it forces you to do is prioritize. In the last few seconds before landing, everything comes down to three things: - Meatball (your glide slope) - Lineup (are you centered) - Angle of attack (your airspeed) If you get those three things right, your chances of landing safely go way up. But if you focus too much on anything else—or even focus too long on one of those—you lose control of the others. So it’s about relentlessly focusing on what matters most in that moment. Carolyn Ford: And that’s such a powerful metaphor, because in business and life, we’re constantly being pulled in a hundred different directions. Carey Lohrenz: Exactly. The challenge is identifying ahead of time when you’re going to become overwhelmed and what the highest-risk moments are. Because if you don’t, you end up reacting instead of executing. ________________ Carolyn Ford: I don’t want to end without talking about your story as a pioneer. You weren’t even allowed to fly when you started, and you did it anyway. And you talk about the WASPs in your book—why is that story so important? Carey Lohrenz: Most people don’t know about the WASPs—the Women Airforce Service Pilots from World War II. They flew every aircraft in the military inventory, trained pilots, tested planes, and ferried aircraft. But after the war, they were told to go home, be quiet, and not speak about their service. It took decades for their contributions to be recognized. And for me, I was lucky. I met one of these women when I was young, and she told me I could do this. So when I started flying, I knew I wasn’t alone. I was standing on the shoulders of giants. And that’s why it’s so important—when you get into a position, you have to put the ladder down for others. Carolyn Ford: That really stuck with me—success isn’t just what you achieve, it’s who you bring with you. Carey Lohrenz: Exactly. Show me who you mentored. Show me who you helped open doors for. Because that’s what actually matters. ________________ Carolyn Ford: All right, I’m going to move us into our rapid fire questions. If you could bring one piece of cockpit technology into today’s corporate boardrooms, what would it be? Carey Lohrenz: I would give you a high-speed radar that could very quickly designate what you need to be focusing on—and keep your attention locked on that, even while everything else is happening around you. Carolyn Ford: I would love that. Can I ask—what was your call sign? Carey Lohrenz: Call signs are a bit of a hot topic, because generally speaking, they are not politically correct. And you don’t get to choose your own. Mine was Vixen. Carolyn Ford: I kind of love it. Last question—if you could pilot any vehicle from sci-fi or pop culture, what would it be? Carey Lohrenz: I think my kids would want me to say a Transformer. They’re fast, adaptable, and can be anything they need to be. Carolyn Ford: That’s a great answer. Carey, thank you so much for joining us today. Carey Lohrenz: Thanks for having me. Carolyn Ford: And thank you to our audience for joining us. Please share this episode, and until next time, stay curious. I’m Carolyn Ford, and this is Tech Transforms.