Carolyn Ford: When you're looking at startups in the same space in the defense industry or you're looking to fill different gaps, a lot of them start to look the same. What really inspires me is when they're able to say, "Oh, I know that we're just like our competitors, but here's this one key piece that's different. That's all I need to know." When we talk about hostile environments in tech, we're usually talking about a server room with bad airflow or a particularly brutal code review. But my guest today works in an environment that actually tries to crush your hardware, literally. We're diving into the world of blue tech. And before you check your connection, no, this isn't a new Bluetooth protocol. We're talking about the massive engineering challenges of protecting and understanding our oceans, a frontier that is 90% unmapped. It's essentially space exploration except underwater.


Joining me is Abbey Fabian, principal systems engineer and strategic lead at Raytheon. Beyond her work bridging the gap between defense giants and agile startups, Abbey serves as the president of the Women in Defense Greater Boston chapter. Through Women in Defense, Abbey isn't just building sonar systems. She's building a community, a thriving network of mentorship and scholarships. And here's the best part: she told me that you don't have to be a math person to join. Whether you're in HR, finance, or marketing, Abbey's vision is about finding a best fit for everyone in the mission. Today, we're discussing why the ocean is the next great tech frontier, the humiliation ritual of learning to ask when you don't know, and how to lead with enough humility to realize you don't have to be the only expert in the room.


Abbey, thanks for joining me on Tech Transforms.


Abbey Fabian: Hi Carolyn, thanks for having me. Um, just I'd like to say that any opinions expressed in this are my own.


Carolyn Ford: All right. Well, with that, let's get straight into it. Um, one of the things that fascinates me about your career is blue tech. So will you explain what that is to our audience?


Abbey Fabian: Yeah, so blue tech refers to any technology that's used to protect, understand, or use the marine or freshwater environments. There's a lot of different considerations that you can have in the ocean that you might not have on land or in the air. Um, so it's a really fascinating field.


Carolyn Ford: How did you get into it? Is your degree in blue tech? I mean, is that a degree? I don't even know.


Abbey Fabian: Um, so I had no idea really about it, even in my undergrad. One of my professors had come up to me with a research assistantship opportunity kind of in the undersea sonar space—search algorithms based off of dolphins. And I love the ocean, I love the beach. And so I really got into it. And then once I got into that, I got to go to different conferences, talk to other engineers in the space, and just learn all about it. Um, and I'm still learning. So, it's fascinating. I love the ocean.


Carolyn Ford: Me, too. Um, I'm a scuba diver, and it's a place where it is an alien world, right? I don't know, do you scuba?


Abbey Fabian: No, no. I like to swim.


Carolyn Ford: Okay, fair enough.


Abbey Fabian: I'm not that brave.


Carolyn Ford: So I would imagine that with what you're doing, there's a big national security component to it. Can you talk about that?


Abbey Fabian: Yeah. So I think one of the cool things about blue tech and using different technologies that kind of use the ocean or work within the ocean is that so much of it is unexplored. And that's kind of the big one that everyone says, like 90% of the ocean is unexplored. But the other thing that is a little bit less known to people outside of the space is how there's so many more mechanical considerations in the ocean that there might not be on land or in the air. Um, as well as just being such a hostile environment at all times, kind of like space. And so what's cool about that is that it's a little bit slower to advance. And so there's so much we can grab from. Like, sonar is basically just undersea radar. So there's so many advancements in radar that we can grab from and use in sonar for different detection purposes and all that kind of stuff. Um, so I think just the potential of it is going to spur up so many new technologies in national security.


Carolyn Ford: So, I can imagine that there's a lot you can't talk about regarding what you do in blue tech, but what's like one of the coolest things that you've come across? Even—I'm happy to talk more about the dolphins—tell me more about that or just any cool piece of tech in this space that you've come across or worked on.


Abbey Fabian: So, I think one of the coolest things that I've seen come up a lot—and it can have some dual uses with national security—but I love the eco-friendly side of things. I think the blue tech community is very eco-friendly. Um, and they have all these different technologies to protect marine life. Um, and I was part of this research group in college that had experts in all different types of marine life: whales, dolphins, all that kind of fun stuff. Um, and one of it was just using sonar or using hydrophones underwater to hear different whale sounds and track their migration. And when you have different boats or things underwater, different ports, it's important to be mindful of marine life. Um, so marine sensing for all this different marine life, I think, is really fascinating, and I love animals. So anything we can do to protect them is really cool.


Carolyn Ford: Me too. I love that. I just recently read about—it must be a few years back now—where they're using this kind of tech up in the Seattle area to protect the migrating whales because a lot of the whales are being killed by ships. I think that's like one of the number one killers right now because the ships don't see them; they run into them. And so they're using this kind of tech to tell all the ship captains, "Hey, this channel right now, you need to stay away from here because we've got this pot of whales coming through." And it's actually saved a lot of whale lives, the technology has.


Abbey Fabian: It's incredible.


Carolyn Ford: Yeah, super cool. In fact, there's a book—I'll have to send you the link, I don't know if you've heard of it—it's called Gaia's Web. G-A-I-A-S.


Abbey Fabian: I don't think so.


Carolyn Ford: So, she's an environmentalist technologist, and she looks at exactly what you were talking about: using tech to protect our environment, to protect the wildlife. So, I'll send it to you. I'm in the middle of it right now and so far, I highly recommend it.


Abbey Fabian: Awesome. Yeah, please send it my way.


Carolyn Ford: Yeah. All right. So, looking ahead 5 to 10 years, how do you see blue tech evolving?


Abbey Fabian: Um, I think another buzzword that I've just heard over and over again to the point it's kind of just noise in my head is AI. Um, but I think that shift of using AI has shifted us into more of a software space. So I think we're going to be seeing a lot more—like I said before, blue tech is a very mechanical environment—I think we're going to be seeing a lot more software-defined technologies, and that's going to really enable us to adapt to all the different types of space underwater. Again, a lot of the ocean is unexplored, so being able to adapt to environments that we don't really see or understand, and using AI to kind of predict those environments. I think there's going to be a huge uptick in that, and I mean, there already is, so I think it'll just get better and better.


Carolyn Ford: Yeah, yeah. It's exciting. Um, let's shift gears a little bit and talk about your technical background and how it shaped the way that you lead teams and make strategic decisions. Tell me how your career started, how did your career start?


Abbey Fabian: Yeah, so, um, from the beginning or from like the beginning of my job?


Carolyn Ford: Um, you know what, Abbey, whatever you feel like telling me.


Abbey Fabian: Yeah, so, got into engineering. Um, I'm an electrical engineer—that's my background—but I had originally started off as a bioengineer, mostly just because I thought all the medical stuff was really interesting and I was good at math. And my dad was like, "Well, one of my old friends is pretty smart, good at math, makes good money, do engineering." And I was like, "Sure, sounds great. Love to make some money and do some engineering." And so I started in bioengineering, and I had gone to one of our intro classes and learned about electrical engineering because, mind you, I really didn't have a ton of exposure to it. My boyfriend at the time, now my husband, was an electrical engineer. Didn't know what that meant. Um, and once I learned about all the different cool applications of it and how much you can do, I switched into electrical engineering. Um, and every year I kind of learned a little bit more and more about all the different possibilities in it. Um, and then I had done an internship at MIT Lincoln Laboratory up in Lexington, Mass. Um, and when I was there, I got to participate in a bunch of different talks—and I can't really talk about what I did—but I was able to see how much there is in the defense space. There was a talk on just finding other planets, and I was like, "That's defense? That is so cool." And even just like the testing of radar algorithms and stuff like that, I just thought was like, "Wow, there's just so much to it." When I think of defense, I just think of, okay, the military, don't really know much about it, but there's just so much to it. And even just having gone to conferences and stuff, the more you learn, a lot of our important tech, or stuff that you wouldn't even consider tech like sunscreen, has come from the defense industry. Um, so I just think it's really fascinating.


Carolyn Ford: So you started out like as a practitioner, implementer, right? Like...


Abbey Fabian: Yeah, very—a lot of R&D type stuff.


Carolyn Ford: But you're in leadership roles now. So talk about that. Talk about how your technical background has shaped the way that you lead teams and the way that you make strategic decisions.


Abbey Fabian: Yeah. So I think one of the things is just having a deep understanding of how much knowledge goes even into just one tiny little subject. Having been in that role, if I stayed in the one thing that I started off in—doing some of my signal processing, image analysis type work—I could keep going down that path for years, decades, and still not even know as much as I need to know about it. Um, so I think it gave me just an understanding of how vast all the niches in engineering are and knowing—not having that obtuseness to think that I am the expert in everything and knowing when to get help.


Um, and so when I've gone into leading different teams, I have a huge appreciation for all my engineers because, A, I know how smart they are just to know what they know, and B, having that trust in them to have that autonomy to do their job and know that I'm not the expert. "Just do what you need to do, tell me about it." Um, and so that's kind of like my style for leading teams. Um, but for strategic decisions, it's also when I go to different conferences or I'm looking for different tech, I'm able to know that I need to reach out to my different experts and different technical leadership to figure out the gaps that I don't see. Um, but having that engineering background, I'm able to understand when a piece of tech is really interesting and there might be something there, but knowing who to reach out to after to kind of confirm it and get the bigger picture.


Carolyn Ford: What I'm hearing is you're the kind of leader that I want leading my teams, because there's an element of humility. You're relatable because you've done their job. Like just like you said, you know what goes into all of this. I think that's so important to understand and having done exactly what you're asking them to do—at least at a certain level—you know what it is. So I love that. Um, so your career has been highly technical, been in these mission-driven environments. What surprised you the most when you entered the defense industry?


Abbey Fabian: I think I was surprised at how innovative it was. Um, I think a lot of people think of engineering as very math-based and very technically driven, especially in defense; it just seems kind of—I guess like as a young engineer, I just thought it'd be kind of boring. Um, and that there's a purpose to it, but whatever, I'm here to just kind of learn and just get experience and maybe move on. Um, but I think what's so cool about the defense industry and just engineering in general is how creative it is. Um, I think a lot of engineers, if you talk to them, they're not just mathematicians and physicists, they're artists, they're musicians. They are so creative. Um, myself, like I play the flute and I like to paint and I like to do that stuff, and I like to channel that creative energy into my work. Um, and so when I'm in the defense industry, there's a huge focus on innovation and having that creativity of figuring out new ideas. And it might not be drawing, but it's finding a new application for something. And I just think it's really cool that it's that innovative.


Carolyn Ford: The creative piece, um, I think is huge for any job to be innovative and to truly lead. And what you just said has been my experience. I mean, I love the engineers—and I say this with all the love and respect—like, you guys are such nerds, and you get so passionate about the things that you just mentioned, your art, your flute. Um, a lot of you guys I relate to because I'm a sci-fi nerd, and I don't know, are you a sci-fi lover?


Abbey Fabian: A little bit.


Carolyn Ford: Okay. A little bit. But okay, well let me ask you this. Do you like Lizzo?


Abbey Fabian: Yes.


Carolyn Ford: I saw her in concert, and man, when she whipped out her flute, that was the most energizing—I screamed so loud.


Abbey Fabian: Awesome.


Carolyn Ford: Okay, I love that so much, that you are this—you're an intellect, and you're a creative, and you're the passion behind it. It really is what makes really true leaders. You have to partner a lot in the space that you're in, I would imagine. How do you go about finding the right partnerships, evaluating the right partners? What goes into that?


Abbey Fabian: Yeah, so, one of the things is it's important to understand what really sets these companies apart. Um, I like to think of it as—one example I've used before is, we've all—I don't know if I can say Dunkin'—but we all have, up in New England at least, one street has two Dunkin's on the same street. So, growing up, I had two Dunkin's down the street. Um, there's nothing different about them—same distance, same wait time. Um, both had drive-throughs, everything. Uh, and there's only one reason that I went to one over the other, and that was just because it made my iced coffee the same way every time, the way I like it—a light beige color, uh, slightly sweet. And, and so when you're looking at all these different startups, especially when you're looking at startups in the same space in the defense industry, or you're looking to fill different gaps, a lot of them start to look the same. Uh, and what really inspires me is when they're able to say, "Oh, I know that we're just like our competitors, but here's this one key piece that's different." Um, so, how are you able to make my coffee the right way? That's all I need to know.


And then the other thing is also, I think when a company is able to have a really strong mission statement and a really strong story behind it, it really aligns their teams best and really helps create a really good product. Um, and I can kind of see the passion in it and how everything really comes together cohesively. Um, there's still companies that I think of today when I think of going to—like, I am able to go to MassChallenge, which is a startup accelerator. And when I've gone to those events, there's a few key companies that stick out in my mind, not because their video is super flashy or anything, but because their story was so strong and moving. And those are the ones that I actually keep hearing of today because they've been so successful.


Carolyn Ford: So what I'm hearing is, yes, there's that technological differentiator, and it's the people and the passion behind it, their story, their passion. And I agree with you 100%. I mean, it's how I decided to actually come work for the company that I'm working for, because they had the story, and they clearly believed in what they were doing and were so passionate about it. It just makes it exciting, and it makes it seem like if there's passion and belief, like, anything can happen. If you can dream it, you can make it happen if you have the passion to do it.


Abbey Fabian: Yep.


Carolyn Ford: Yeah, it's like that.


Abbey Fabian: Yeah, it's like when they say, "If you don't believe in yourself, who else is going to believe in you?" It's kind of the same thing with your company. If you don't believe in your company and what you're doing, then why should anyone else?


Carolyn Ford: Yeah, and oh, what a soul-sucking existence, right? All right. Um, we're going to take a quick pause here to thank the sponsors who I just talked about, um, who make these conversations possible.


This episode is sponsored by Owl Cyber Defense. We're going to take a quick pause to thank the sponsor who makes these conversations possible. This episode is sponsored by Owl Cyber Defense, a pure-play cybersecurity company delivering made-in-the-USA data diode and cross-domain solutions trusted to protect some of the most sensitive government and commercial networks worldwide. Owl enables secure, near-instant collaboration across network boundaries, helping military, federal, and critical infrastructure organizations make faster, safer decisions. To learn more, visit owlcyberdefense.com.


And we're back. All right. For large defense organizations trying to innovate faster, what mindset shift is required? We've already talked—you've already touched on it a little bit, I think—but is it more about the process, the culture, incentives? What makes a really good company able to innovate and move faster?


Abbey Fabian: Yeah. So, I think part of that is—I'm a little bit biased, but with my job as well, which is with those small business partnerships or our non-traditional partners—I think that at least the large defense company that I work for has already done a good job of this, but I think to keep moving in that direction. Um, one of the problems—or not problems, but one of the setbacks of working in a large defense company—is that there's so many processes and it's just really slow. I mean, it's like you have a big fat lab versus a little Chihuahua. Of course, the big fat lab is going to be moving a lot slower. Um, but if you can find those partners, that can help you be a little bit more agile. Um, because they are smaller, so there's a lot less processes to go through, but they're making just as quality of a product. Um, as well as, it's the same thing as if—like I had said before, when you have an engineer that's really working in one niche, they're going to be really exquisite at it. Um, and we might have a ton of different engineers that are SMEs in all these different areas. Um, but a small business, they might not be thinking of your bigger picture. They're going to be focusing on making a really, really good product in one specific area, and we can utilize that and take that in and make our products even better and integrate them into our systems.


Carolyn Ford: So, I think I'd like to back up again just a little bit, if you can. Can you describe at a high level what you do right now? What is your job right now?


Abbey Fabian: Yeah. So I am the—it's a mouthful—but tech teaming and transitions lead for a director's portfolio for our university and small business partnerships group. So, my part of the group is small business partnerships. Um, and essentially what we do is a couple of different things. Uh, we tech scout. Um, we're a team of small but mighty engineers. Um, we take our tech needs from our tech leadership, and we're able to go out and source different companies that we might see as a good fit for the company. We manage a portfolio of all different small business contracts. Um, and ultimately, what our goal is, is to transition those products and help mature them and bring them onto our bigger programs to help them make them faster and more efficient.


Carolyn Ford: So are you business development or are you acquisitions?


Abbey Fabian: A little bit of both. We kind of—we're kind of everything. Um, so we're kind of—I like to say we're at the crossroads of all that, because we're all engineers, so we have that technical understanding. Um, we have the business needs, so we do a lot of that business development. Um, and we're able to strategize on which partnerships that we're looking into. Um, and we're also kind of a bridge between internal and external partners. So we work with our innovation group internally, we work with chief engineers, program managers internally. Um, but we also work with our external customers—the government, academia, basically kind of everything. And here's us.


Carolyn Ford: Okay. So, you might be looking at anything from a company that makes Iron Man suits to biotech to blue tech. Like, you could be looking at all of those different kinds of technologies.


Abbey Fabian: Yeah.


Carolyn Ford: And assessing them. Okay, okay.


Abbey Fabian: Yeah.


Carolyn Ford: All right. That's good. I should have asked that question first. Um, and what you said about the difference between a big fat lab and a Chihuahua—I have a big fat lab. So, I had a very clear visual of exactly what you were talking about because when I throw the ball for my big fat lab, no matter what, he face-plants. Like, he skids past it every time, and he cannot—you know, he does not have the agility to do that. But it sounds like you guys might be able to operate as the Chihuahua inside of the big fat lab.


Abbey Fabian: Yes, exactly. Yep. Yeah, my in-laws have a blind big fat lab, so it's even crazier.


Carolyn Ford: Oh my goodness. Okay. Um, well, you and I—I also worked for Raytheon, and I worked for them when they decided to stand up their cyber arm. So, you know, a decade-plus ago, they stood up a cyber arm, and they were acquiring companies for that cyber division, and I was marketing in that cyber division. So I relate to—sometimes it felt like when we needed to do something, it was like trying to turn the Titanic. And often we were still able to be agile and do—not independent of, but we were able to—because we were our own focus, we were able to move quicker than the big mothership, if that makes sense.


Abbey Fabian: Yep. No, totally get it.


Carolyn Ford: Yeah. All right. Well, I want to—let's see—I want to talk about—I know that you are the president of Women in Defense in Greater Boston. Um, and I want to talk about that a little bit, when you stepped into that role, and how the opportunity to influence both access and representation in the defense ecosystem, how it affects that. Um, and then I have more follow-up questions, but I'll pause there. Talk a little bit about Women in Defense in Greater Boston, how you got there.


Abbey Fabian: Yeah. So, I had gotten involved—so I was very involved in different groups when I was in college at UMass Dartmouth, and I had helped out from the Society of Women Engineers side. Um, I was the president of that in college, and I had gotten to speak on their panel for a Women in Defense event at my school. Um, and I was at the table with this woman, and she was awesome, and she was another of the speakers, and she grabbed me and she was like, "You need to join Women in Defense. You need to go talk to this person." And I was like, "All right." Um, oh, okay, I don't even know what that is. And so, I went and I talked to them. Um, and they were like, "Yeah, we need the help." So, I got involved on their sponsorship committee. Um, it was just a great group of women. Um, I learned a lot from sponsorship that I actually use in my job now. We'd have to—I'd have to go out and kind of shamelessly ask companies for money to support us for different events. I'd have to maintain those relationships. Um, and it sounded really boring at first, and I didn't even want to do sponsorship. I wanted to help with events. Um, but the woman who was the director of that committee at the time, I loved her so much, and she was awesome; I just wanted to work with her. Um, but then I ended up loving it, and I use that a lot in my job today. Um, but from there I just got really...


Carolyn Ford: So, I'm going to pause you there. So, like, just the—the muscle learning how to build those relationships? Is that what you mean?


Abbey Fabian: Yeah. So, we had to build a sponsorship package. Um, we had to identify what our sponsors were looking for, what our needs were, maintaining those relationships, being able to go out and network and find different sponsors, and just kind of organically make that happen. Um, I think I use that a lot today, especially that networking, and being able to communicate professionally, uh, but warmly. I think I learned a lot from that role.


Carolyn Ford: And just being willing to ask, right? The power of the ask has been astounding to me, even with my podcast. You know, it was scary at first to ask guests to come on. And I've been surprised when people like yourself say, "Sure, I'll come on your podcast." I'm really, really—and, you know, over the years that muscle has gotten a lot easier to exercise.


Abbey Fabian: Yep. Yeah, it just takes a lot of—it's like a humiliation ritual. You just keep asking, and I mean, the worst people can say is say no. And most people are human, and they're not going to think you're being annoying.


Carolyn Ford: That's right. But that "no" can hurt so much, like, the fear of rejection. And I've learned to grow a little bit of, you know, a thick skin and just not take it personally, you know, okay, and move on. But I still get surprised when people say yes to me. I'm always surprised. I don't—and I don't know why I keep asking. I feel like I get nervous every time. And we have talked before about just that—nerves about speaking before every time. And um, it's kind of like the same thing—like even though I know it'll go okay and I've done it a million times, I don't think it gets any easier. I think you just get more comfortable with it.


Carolyn Ford: Right, right. You just build that muscle and you learn to use it a little bit better every time. And then, you know, for me it has gotten easier a little bit, just because I have—because people are so gracious and, just what you said, people are human. They're not trying to be mean, and if they do say no, it's not a personal thing; it's just they might not have the time or whatever. Um, so when you first took the position that you have now as president, how long have you been president?


Abbey Fabian: Um, since this past October I've been president. Um, but I was vice president for the two years before that.


Carolyn Ford: So, how did that happen?


Abbey Fabian: Um, so it happened because our past president, who I really loved and respected so much, um, I had wanted to be her VP. Um, and then she had taken a new job and left, and there was a gap for president. So I'd run for president and gotten the VP role. Um, so I've just kind of been learning ever since from that, and then it was kind of a natural progression into the president role.


Carolyn Ford: So as president, when you first stepped into it, or when you first ran for president, what was your vision like? What did you want to accomplish?


Abbey Fabian: Yeah. So I think my vision for it was—I really wanted it to—I'm very, like, my leadership style is very much so learning everyone's needs and then trying to find the best way forward, try to find that best fit line through everyone's needs and really make it impactful for our members. Um, so that was kind of my vision for it, of, okay, let me talk to everyone. What are you trying to get out of this? Um, we do a lot of different stuff. We do scholarships for students in college looking to get into the defense industry. We do professional development events. Um, we have people from—men and women—HR, finance, engineering, everything—early, young, late career. Um, you name it, we have it.


Um, so I think really just understanding the needs of them and trying to execute that. Um, and another thing I like to ask myself is, if I had never been to a WID event, didn't know what it was, would I drive an hour to attend? And if the answer is no, then I don't think we're doing a good enough job at our events, because it should be something that you really want to drive out to and identify with.


Carolyn Ford: How do you—okay, first of all, mad respect. Um, I keep telling myself that I need to find something like this as a way to give back. Um, it sounds like you guys are a mentor party program. Is that—is that right? Is that part of your charter?


Abbey Fabian: Kind of, yeah. It's uh—so it's to empower both the next generation of professionals in defense and also giving the tools to professionals currently in the defense industry to succeed.


Carolyn Ford: How much time does it—like where do you find the time, Abbey?


Abbey Fabian: I don't know. It's honestly, for a while it was a little bit easier when I was a little bit younger, earlier career. Um, but now that I'm more in a president role, I have more of a handle on it. It's been a while. Um, but honestly, I don't know. Um, it's a lot of work. My friends for a while would joke it's like my second job, and they're like, "How do you get a job that can—you can do this? Because this is what you—you talk about this more than your normal job." Um, and now my job today is a lot more like this, which makes sense. But yeah, I don't know where I find the time. It's definitely—it's a lot of work, but we have a lot of great people on our team.


Carolyn Ford: This is your passion. Well, tell me, like, what does it look like if someone were to join Women in Defense—or you called it WID—what does that entail?


Abbey Fabian: Yeah. So, usually what I always recommend to people—so you can get a membership, it's an affiliate. So, Women in Defense is a national organization. It's an affiliate of the National Defense Industrial Association, or NDIA. Um, so, you get a membership online. Um, and once you do that, usually what I do is—we have a membership chair, um, and someone who runs these bi-weekly Zoom meetings with all our committees. So, usually I recommend coming to one of those committee meetings and just kind of meeting everyone. It's a very informal type group, and usually just a place where we can reconnect every couple weeks. Um, and that's where usually I have everyone introduce themselves, and I like to kind of ask them what they're interested in, what they want to get out of it. Uh, some people are a little bit shy and want to do stuff more behind the scenes. Some people really want to get actively involved, and some people just only have a little bit of time or a lot of time. Um, so trying to find the best fit for them.


Carolyn Ford: And so if someone joins, then the bi-weekly meetings—is there like a mandatory amount of time that you have to dedicate to this? Sorry, we're—this is turning into a lot of—I'm fascinated by it, obviously.


Abbey Fabian: No, I love it.


Carolyn Ford: So, so what's the—the average commitment? How many people are a part of Women in Defense?


Abbey Fabian: Yeah. So, for our chapter, it kind of—again, it kind of depends on your time commitment that you want to put into it. Some people just like to attend the events that we have throughout the year. Uh, so we have—actually last night we had a—at University of Massachusetts Dartmouth we had an Empowering Women in STEM event. And that's usually kind of—it's a scholarship night and it's a networking opportunity for both students, academia, and professionals. Um, so you can attend our events. Uh, you can get involved in one of our committees, help out with a specific event that you've been interested in. Um, join our board. We usually have a lot of different deputy opportunities available. Um, our board—we have, I think, 120 to 140 members in our chapter. Uh, but we have a board of directors that has marketing, membership, scholarship, events, and sponsorship committees. We have an executive board. So there's tons of different opportunities to get involved.


I'd say I spend a couple hours a week, and sometimes when we have events coming up, um, there's a lot that goes into it, so you'll be spending more. Um, but if you just want to attend events, it's once every couple months. If you want to come—just come to our meetings just to hang out, it's like a half hour every other week. Um, so it's really up to you.


Carolyn Ford: Okay. So, this is Women in Defense Greater Boston area, but you said it's a national organization, so you've got chapters all over the nation. You can tell it's personal now, Abbey, I'm so fascinated by it. And I—when you first started talking about it and I saw that you were president, I was—I felt a little intimidated because I am not good at math, but I think it's really cool and I think science and technology is really cool. But you just mentioned that there's even a place for people like me who are like STEM allies, but maybe more on the marketing side.


Abbey Fabian: Yeah, so that's actually one misconception that we get a lot, and that's that we're a STEM organization. Um, one of our initiatives is STEM for college students. But um, a lot of our—we're all different people. Um, one of my mentors in the group, she's in some form of HR. One of my good friends that I made is a financial analyst. Um, so we're kind of all across the board. Our marketing chair was in HR, now in more of a marketing role. So there's always a—there's so many different types of people that we have, and that's why I like it so much, because I'm not stuck with just—I mean, I love being stuck with engineers every day, but I also love meeting people outside of that, too.


Carolyn Ford: Yeah. Okay, well, I like it now, too. I'm a fan. You just made me a fan. Good. All right. Um, before we run out of time, I want to talk about young engineers coming into their careers. What mistakes do you think they might make, and what could help them—what advice would you give them to help them thrive in the corporate environment?


Abbey Fabian: Um, I guess a couple of things. So, one is asking questions. No question is stupid. And I think as a young engineer, I'd been told this all the time, and I still get told it. Uh, but just asking questions, because if you get stuck, someone can help you. Or they can just tell you—if it's a bad question, they'll tell you to figure it out, and then you'll know, okay, I can probably Google this and find an answer. But if not, you'll have someone that's more experienced that can help you, and you might find a new way of doing something.


And I think the other thing that happens a lot, especially—I've had a lot of situations where I've been on teams where I'm the youngest in the room by a couple decades. There's only a few of us, and I feel like I need to wait until I'm 99% confident until I speak up. Um, and so I think...


Carolyn Ford: You don't want to look dumb.


Abbey Fabian: Yeah. You don't want to look dumb, right?


Carolyn Ford: I still don't—I don't want to look dumb.


Abbey Fabian: Um, so even right now, I guess there's a little bit of that impostor syndrome of, "Oh, should I even be talking on this stuff? Do I know enough to even be giving advice on this?" Um, but I think just speaking up when you're maybe 50% sure. And again, you'll have those guardrails; someone will tell you you're wrong if you're wrong. And then if you are wrong, you can learn from it.


Um, and I think for anyone who's more of a senior leader listening or further along in their career, I think it's important to give people who are younger in their career, or just anyone in the room who you see sitting quietly, that space to talk. Um, one thing I always like to do is, every time I have a meeting, I like to go around the room, because it puts everyone on an even playing field. Uh, and like when I had started leading one team last year, when I first did that, a few of them still weren't speaking up or saying anything. But after a while, they saw how it became part of the norm, that they felt comfortable enough to speak up. And a lot of them have the concerns that no one else is willing to say—they're just so unsure. And that's what can really make progress happen.


Carolyn Ford: The same concerns that everybody else has. That's—I'll say something, and I'm like, "This is so stupid. I can't believe I'm going to ask this." But then I ask it, and everybody's like, "I was wondering the same thing."


Abbey Fabian: Yep. That's what I love about the team that I'm on so much now, is that one of my mentors has said, um, every time we go to a conference or something, he's like, "Give me all the stupid ideas that you have. Just write them down. I don't care. I don't care how stupid." And the whole team is kind of like that. And so I feel really comfortable just saying whatever's on my mind. And sometimes, when you have a good idea, they really hype it up. They're like, "Yeah, that's an amazing idea." And you're like, "What? That was just something stupid that I thought of." And they're like, "No, no one's said that before. That's amazing. Keep doing that." Um, but if it's a stupid thing, they'll just say, "Oh, we already did that already, but thanks for putting your input in." And then that's it. And they're not, like, hitting you over the head like, "Stupid, stupid, stupid." They're encouraging you.


Carolyn Ford: So, I—I love that you go around the room. I worked for a leader—I use that term loosely—I worked under a VP, a senior VP, and every week we had this horrible, painful hour-and-a-half team meeting, and the entire meeting, I'm not kidding, we got talked at. Nobody else on the team rarely said anything or was asked to contribute. It was this one person talking at us, imparting their wisdom at us. And I vowed not to be that kind of—well, that's not a leader. I vowed to be the kind of leader—I aspire to be the kind of leader that you are, Abbey. And, and my meetings always start with, "All right, let's go around the team and tell me your win for the week." And that win can literally be that your dog caught the ball today. I just want to hear from you. I just want you to talk. So, I love that.


All right, we are to my favorite part of the show. Although, this—this show's been my—the whole show's been my favorite part, but this part—the tech talk questions—is really fun. This is our rapid-fire, fun question section. So, don't think too much, there's no dumb response here. Um, if sonar engineers had a superhero name, what would it be?


Abbey Fabian: Think "MystDetector"—like spell that like "miss," M-I-S-S, and then "detector".


Carolyn Ford: I like it, because there's—I feel like there's some double entendre there, too.


Abbey Fabian: Me too.


Carolyn Ford: Perfect. Okay. All right. You can deploy one futuristic ocean tech tomorrow—no budget, no acquisition hurdles, no red tape. What are you launching, and what problem does it solve first?


Abbey Fabian: I think ocean mapping. I think—I just think it's really fascinating, and like I said before, there's so much cool stuff that's undiscovered. I think just understanding more about what's out there.


Carolyn Ford: Oh my gosh, I love that you went old-school on me, because I'm like, expecting—I don't know, a dome under the ocean, and you're like, "No, we just need to know what's there." I love that.


All right. Ocean or space? Which frontier excites you more?


Abbey Fabian: I think ocean, definitely pretty clearly. Um, I think, A, there's just so much more that we can do with it, and B, I've just always loved the beach and the ocean in general. I just feel more at peace every time I'm near the ocean, and so I'm excited to see it take more of a center stage. And more conferences near the ocean, I think, is important.


Carolyn Ford: Agreed. And you know, I love both, and both give me this sense of awe even to say them. But having spent a lot of time in the ocean, just the—like, all the creatures, and every time you get to go in and the different things you discover—it is—it is magical for me. So, yep. All right. I'm right there with you. Well, thank you so much for joining us today.


Abbey Fabian: Thanks for having me.


Carolyn Ford: Yeah. All right. And where can our listeners connect with you to learn more about your work?


Abbey Fabian: Yeah. So, I'm on LinkedIn at Abigail Fabian, and my website is Abbeyfabian.org.


Carolyn Ford: All right. We will make sure that we get that in the show notes. And then what about Women in Defense? Where can people go to find out more about that?


Abbey Fabian: So, our chapter is widgbc.org—so widgbc.org. And we also have a LinkedIn page—should be Women in Defense Greater Boston Chapter.


Carolyn Ford: All right. Again, for our listeners, that will be in the show notes. Thank you so much. All right, listeners, thanks for joining us. Uh, if you found this episode valuable, be sure to share it and leave us a review. Smash that like button. That helps us reach more people who could benefit from conversations like these. Tech Transforms is produced by Show and Tell, sponsored by Owl Cyber Defense. Until next time, stay curious and keep imagining the future. Thanks for tuning in.


If you found this episode valuable, be sure to share it, leave a review, and smash that like button to help us reach more people who could benefit from the conversation. I'm Carolyn Ford. Tech Transforms is produced by Show and Tell and sponsored by Owl Cyber Defense. Until next time, stay curious and keep imagining the future.