Hello and welcome to the ether podcast. I know that we haven't done this for awhile, but I have been gathering and you crew and I'm very happy to introduce some very dear friends of mine who are going to help me talk about the topic of unity with me. Is Johnny rails also known as beginner Juan? He's been in another one of our podcasts. Do you remember his story? I save them from the Amazon jungle and he owes me his life also with us. Is Nathan Figueroa. Nathan Figueroa will play the role in this podcast. As a devil's advocate, as he's a a lawyer and be extremely contentious, but that's why we love him. And Thirdly, but certainly not least, is the most handsome and successful amongst us Alberto Figueroa and that is true. Everybody shaking their head right now because it is the truth. And so here we are is just to give you a little bit of background on why there's a Mötley Crüe is together. I used to do youth ministry in the very first youth ministry that ever lead. Had both of these. Three kids who are now grown man in it and we have developed a friendship that is very dear and precious to me. They hate me themselves, but I love them and so I think we have had many adventures. And also we love talking about spiritual stuff and that is why we're doing this podcast together. And today we are talking about the topic of unity. If you have seen some of our videos, we've released 2 videos on this topic and this is just a little bit of a deeper discussion on the topic. I think this is a topic that's extremely important right now. As we are living through really divided times, we are in the middle of a pandemic, an election year and certainly a racially charged time and I think all of these topics are creating a great degree of discussion that a lot of people disagree on, and so we are here to basically talk about how all of this affects the church and how to keep unity in the church. And more than anything today the first thing that we want to discuss is how unity ultimately doesn't come down to us. Agreeing intellectually or even politically, but it really comes down to us being conformed to Christ, and I would like to sort of open with you guys and just really ask you the question. Like do you, in your experience feel just like me that a lot of this unity that we're experiencing as a country has sort of slipped into the church? I can take that, I think. I think certainly like. This year 2020 has just been a year of great revelation. And I think things have been exposed and I think with everything sort of surfing, surfacing in terms of racial tensions, I think have brought them a lot closer to home than I'd ever experienced before. I mean, I was not unaware that we had racial issues or race history racial issues in this country. I think it always felt a little bit like. It was some event or something that happened way out there. But this year has just really exposed how. How much? People that I know very well have had experienced. You know there they have their own stories of discrimination or things that have happened to them, and then you know. Obviously minorities in the church. And then I think on the other end of the spectrum. You have a lot of close friends, myself included, that are just contending with realizing that. I I think because the reason why I made the video about sort of this whole idea that unity isn't based on. Uniformity, meaning that we all have to believe necessarily the same thing or have the same ideas, but it's based on conformity to Christ is because I think no matter what, if you are a Christian, you cannot disagree with the fact that ultimately Christianity is about being like Christ, and so, Interestingly enough, and we'll get to this later. But I think ultimately, what made me land on that idea was how Paul addresses the topic of unity. And ultimately, that's where he makes people arrive at. You know, like he ultimately guides people towards this idea of. You know a not judging people and be sort of what really matters is Christ, so.
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Johnny, any thoughts?
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I think I would. I agree with a lot of bits of said. It's something about this past year that it's felt like.
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The political conversation. The culture conversation has become so intense an it has in many ways just. I feel like it's consumed just about everybody. Everybody has an opinion and its strong opinion because of that it just plays a part in the lives of everybody. Certainly their religious walk with God and community and all that being administered. This past year I feel like I've I've seen it to a certain degree from like the front lines where. There's an expectation for the for the spiritual leader or whatever to be the voice of a lot of the people, or at least to bring up a lot of the conversation and feeling like there are two extremes pressuring me to speak about in a certain way or pressuring the church and the staff to speak about in a certain way. So just being able to see just the two extremes on each side of these of the spectrum, really wanting you to represent them or represent an what's been so. I don't want to say it's never been this way, but what's crazy is that. Our politics in this country are so tide to our morals and because suicides are morals, suicides are religion is so tired to our doctrine and our beliefs and what we think is right and we think it's wrong. And whenever you know accretion is expected to stand for what they believe to be right in the eyes of God, I mean they're passionate about it. And to them it's it's about. It's about SIM. You know it's about righteousness. So when you have people who have those same convictions about sin and righteousness, but they are. Holding on to beliefs that are completely on the opposite
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ends of the spectrum. I mean, you just have a really volatile environment, so it's absolutely. I mean, it's totally seeped into the church. You have a lot of feelings attached to that. You know. People. I think losing a lot of respect for their brother and sister in Christ, believing that their convictions on righteousness aren't quite to the standard of Christ. And so yeah, it's yeah, I think it's absolutely sittin in a really strong, divisive way. Where there's a lot of tension between brothers and sisters, yeah, you know. It's interesting. Because so for those of you who don't know, I live in South Carolina. Which has a lengthy history in this country of a lot of racial tension and a lot of racist history, Anne. I think what I find fascinating is the fact that there are a lot of cultural forces at play in this. And I think ultimately. The first video that we made on this series was simply talking about, sort of like how unity in the church is not just a nice idea like it's unity is supposed to be central to the church like it's supposed to be, something that is part of the church. And the reason why I made the second video is because I think ultimately, like anytime I talk about unity, people inevitably go to the place of like we have to agree on everything and we don't like that is not unity. And when you make unity about what it is which is being conformed to Christ, right when you make it about that. I think the idea of respect an honor, an affection, and all of those things like becomes
really important. When I made and you know, it's interesting 'cause when I made the first video. Somebody left a comment on there. Basically saying like hey, I hear you. But how do I? Build unity with someone when they were talking specifically about the politics of it all. When I feel like my guy is right and the other persons guy is wrong and basically like that question really hit home 'cause I was like. Yeah like how do you? How do you even begin to do that right? And I think ultimately where you begin is in understanding that there is a certain behavior, especially when we're talking about the church, right? There's a certain behavior that is expected that were supposed to show one another to show other men. Members of the church. No matter what. An that is, that is what it means to be a Christian, and I'm not saying that we just have to force our way into like loving people. And specifically in the context of romance, right? Paul talks about hospitality. He talks about loving one another. He talks about honoring people. He talks about like serving people an, but in many ways like beginning there like really beginning there, like looking at someone that you disagree with and saying to yourself you know what like. I'm not going to go and have this discussion with this person. But I'm going to serve them. And I'm going to invite him to my house and I'm going to make him a great meal. And as much as we can, we're going to avoid having this conversation and talk about other things. 'cause there are other things in this world, right? But I think like that's where we need to begin, like I feel like right now. The environment is so charged that it's almost like you meet someone, right? And you almost
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want to ask him. Do black lives matter? Like tell me right now? Do black lives matter? What are we trying to make America great again? Like? What do we do? You don't mean in an in. Again, like there's all these assumptions that were walking into with people you know. I mean all these and for example, as soon as somebody tells you like, hey like I'm a trump supporter, there is a River in a rush of ideas that you have about that person. As soon as they say that that you just go Oh no, like here we're in trouble. But that's because, like we have given such importance to this stuff. And again, I'm not saying that is not important, but what I am saying is that there's something that matters more. Which is the unity of the church and ultimately right. I think when we. When the reason why we care about all of this stuff is because we want to, we want to see change happen and I think the trap like one of the traps in all of this is to think that by trying to win every single argument, we're going to create change, when in reality what really could possibly create even more change than that is a unified church because a unified church is a great agent of change. And so instead of like walking into all these conversations and walking into all these situations with the idea of like, I'm going to have this argument and have to win it if we walk into those situations with the heart of I'm going to try to care as much as unity as I can. I think it changes the dynamic of everything, and I think a big part of this conversation is very much about like how do we change this dynamic that we all feel and that we all perceive, and then many ways like we've all we've all experienced. Yeah, I'll say something you know, I think. I think it's been a really interesting year and and so many honestly like I I. It's funny. I read
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revelation earlier this year and just kind of studied a little bit about about apocalyptic literature and. It's really the heart of that. Genre is the idea of Revelation. Is the idea that there's this experience this moment in time that chest opens your eyes in a way and you see things in a completely new way. An whereas I think I'd always, you know, not uncommon too. I think a lot of people revelation just seemed kind of out there and seemed very like hard to attain or hard to like, understand. I think it made me appreciate it in a way that. I think revelations happen time and time again. I feel like this year was a revelation moment. I think with all the things with all the race issues really surfacing, and obviously the pandemic and things like that. And I think one of those things that had been revealed to me is how much we're not unlike. Just about everybody in the Bible. How much we're not unlike the people Paul is talking to. You know he's he's speaking to people from very different ethnic backgrounds that are bringing with them very charged ideas of right and wrong or customs. And it is really dealing with these things that I think we're dealing with today and I think. What's been what's been happening through this? I feel like the concept of the Kingdom and the supremacy of God's Kingdom, the supremacy of Jesus
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and his lordship I think has become. I just see that in a new light now, like I think I'd get that now where maybe I didn't fully appreciate it before. But when you're talking about something that made me really that stood out to me of what you're saying about from the common and that YouTube. YouTube comment the guy was saying, like you know what I do? What do I do if my guy is? I agree with my guy and don't agree with his guy. And I think where my mind goes is as Christians. You should only have your guys to be clearly defined. Anan, that's Christ that you know, and that's the you know you made him Lord and. You know that's Supreme, and when we talk about the Kingdom, especially how it's talked about throughout the Bible, it's talked about a an internal Kingdom, you know. And and kingdoms will come and go, and we see that you know Babble on left and Rome left. And since then there's been other kingdoms to rise, but they come and go. The one that continues is is God's Kingdom. And so. You know, I think. I think that's where we have to be. Careful is being influenced by our culture, where we're putting a place where we. You know our identity, our, you know what's normal for an American to do is to choose a, you know the political preference and you know, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I don't think there's anything wrong with engaging in the political, but there is something wrong when you're elevating that preference to a level that I think as a Christian you should not be,


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and where it puts you in a dangerous place where. It divides you in such a in such a way between you and your brother that you know you're forgetting that. First and foremost, what brings you together is Christ, and that's much more Supreme than anything else. Yeah, yeah. I think the two keys that I get. From what you guys are getting there, I think is so important about this conversation. Is this one key? The idea that the Kingdom is Supreme and Rodrigo saying that like? There's something that's more important, and this has been applying and has been so fruitful in so many areas of my life. Is that there's so many conflicts at so many tears and scales and levels that are resolved when you take enough steps back. And I think what we're doing here, and I think what the church is doing and what I'm doing and the people I'm surrounded with is that were like face first in this issue when we take a few steps back. And that's just what's necessary to understand the overall scope. Like how does the world really exist? The world doesn't really exist in political systems. In different countries that are sovereign nations, the world exists as God and people and sin and righteousness. That's how the world really exists. And I think unity. In my opinion, unity in the church is a multifaceted, many splendored thing. There's so many issues that I think that contribute to what it means to be unity an I think where it starts, I think, is the second key that Rodrigo talked about. Look, I don't know how to agree with you. I don't know how. I don't know how I can look at you. Anne. An you know be in this conversation when I just think morally or I think factually logically, you're incorrect. But I'm just going to serve you like it. I think agape is designed that sacrificial, intentional decision love, not the emotional love that that Love is designed by God to have an otherworldly effect. It's described
really important. When I made and you know, it's interesting 'cause when I made the first video. Somebody left a comment on there. Basically saying like hey, I hear you. But how do I? Build unity with someone when they were talking specifically about the politics of it all. When I feel like my guy is right and the other persons guy is wrong and basically like that question really hit home 'cause I was like. Yeah like how do you? How do you even begin to do that right? And I think ultimately where you begin is in understanding that there is a certain behavior, especially when we're talking about the church, right? There's a certain behavior that is expected that were supposed to show one another to show other men. Members of the church. No matter what. An that is, that is what it means to be a Christian, and I'm not saying that we just have to force our way into like loving people. And specifically in the context of romance, right? Paul talks about hospitality. He talks about loving one another. He talks about honoring people. He talks about like serving people an, but in many ways like beginning there like really beginning there, like looking at someone that you disagree with and saying to yourself you know what like. I'm not going to go and have this discussion with this person. But I'm going to serve them. And I'm going to invite him to my house and I'm going to make him a great meal. And as much as we can, we're going to avoid having this conversation and talk about other things. 'cause there are other things in this world, right? But I think like that's where we need to begin, like I feel like right now. The environment is so charged that it's almost like you meet someone, right? And you almost
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want to ask him. Do black lives matter? Like tell me right now? Do black lives matter? What are we trying to make America great again? Like? What do we do? You don't mean in an in. Again, like there's all these assumptions that were walking into with people you know. I mean all these and for example, as soon as somebody tells you like, hey like I'm a trump supporter, there is a River in a rush of ideas that you have about that person. As soon as they say that that you just go Oh no, like here we're in trouble. But that's because, like we have given such importance to this stuff. And again, I'm not saying that is not important, but what I am saying is that there's something that matters more. Which is the unity of the church and ultimately right. I think when we. When the reason why we care about all of this stuff is because we want to, we want to see change happen and I think the trap like one of the traps in all of this is to think that by trying to win every single argument, we're going to create change, when in reality what really could possibly create even more change than that is a unified church because a unified church is a great agent of change. And so instead of like walking into all these conversations and walking into all these situations with the idea of like, I'm going to have this argument and have to win it if we walk into those situations with the heart of I'm going to try to care as much as unity as I can. I think it changes the dynamic of everything, and I think a big part of this conversation is very much about like how do we change this dynamic that we all feel and that we all perceive, and then many ways like we've all we've all experienced. Yeah, I'll say something you know, I think. I think it's been a really interesting year and and so many honestly like I I. It's funny. I read
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revelation earlier this year and just kind of studied a little bit about about apocalyptic literature and. It's really the heart of that. Genre is the idea of Revelation. Is the idea that there's this experience this moment in time that chest opens your eyes in a way and you see things in a completely new way. An whereas I think I'd always, you know, not uncommon too. I think a lot of people revelation just seemed kind of out there and seemed very like hard to attain or hard to like, understand. I think it made me appreciate it in a way that. I think revelations happen time and time again. I feel like this year was a revelation moment. I think with all the things with all the race issues really surfacing, and obviously the pandemic and things like that. And I think one of those things that had been revealed to me is how much we're not unlike. Just about everybody in the Bible. How much we're not unlike the people Paul is talking to. You know he's he's speaking to people from very different ethnic backgrounds that are bringing with them very charged ideas of right and wrong or customs. And it is really dealing with these things that I think we're dealing with today and I think. What's been what's been happening through this? I feel like the concept of the Kingdom and the supremacy of God's Kingdom, the supremacy of Jesus
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and his lordship I think has become. I just see that in a new light now, like I think I'd get that now where maybe I didn't fully appreciate it before. But when you're talking about something that made me really that stood out to me of what you're saying about from the common and that YouTube. YouTube comment the guy was saying, like you know what I do? What do I do if my guy is? I agree with my guy and don't agree with his guy. And I think where my mind goes is as Christians. You should only have your guys to be clearly defined. Anan, that's Christ that you know, and that's the you know you made him Lord and. You know that's Supreme, and when we talk about the Kingdom, especially how it's talked about throughout the Bible, it's talked about a an internal Kingdom, you know. And and kingdoms will come and go, and we see that you know Babble on left and Rome left. And since then there's been other kingdoms to rise, but they come and go. The one that continues is is God's Kingdom. And so. You know, I think. I think that's where we have to be. Careful is being influenced by our culture, where we're putting a place where we. You know our identity, our, you know what's normal for an American to do is to choose a, you know the political preference and you know, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I don't think there's anything wrong with engaging in the political, but there is something wrong when you're elevating that preference to a level that I think as a Christian you should not be,
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and where it puts you in a dangerous place where. It divides you in such a in such a way between you and your brother that you know you're forgetting that. First and foremost, what brings you together is Christ, and that's much more Supreme than anything else. Yeah, yeah. I think the two keys that I get. From what you guys are getting there, I think is so important about this conversation. Is this one key? The idea that the Kingdom is Supreme and Rodrigo saying that like? There's something that's more important, and this has been applying and has been so fruitful in so many areas of my life. Is that there's so many conflicts at so many tears and scales and levels that are resolved when you take enough steps back. And I think what we're doing here, and I think what the church is doing and what I'm doing and the people I'm surrounded with is that were like face first in this issue when we take a few steps back. And that's just what's necessary to understand the overall scope. Like how does the world really exist? The world doesn't really exist in political systems. In different countries that are sovereign nations, the world exists as God and people and sin and righteousness. That's how the world really exists. And I think unity. In my opinion, unity in the church is a multifaceted, many splendored thing. There's so many issues that I think that contribute to what it means to be unity an I think where it starts, I think, is the second key that Rodrigo talked about. Look, I don't know how to agree with you. I don't know how. I don't know how I can look at you. Anne. An you know be in this conversation when I just think morally or I think factually logically, you're incorrect. But I'm just going to serve you like it. I think agape is designed that sacrificial, intentional decision love, not the emotional love that that Love is designed by God to have an otherworldly effect. It's described
as a form of evangelism. My by our love you will know that God exists. Buyer love you will know that you know. Were disciples of Jesus that agape is supposed to overcome and do things that just aren't supposed to make sense? And I think that first step is absolutely agape and focusing that agape. I think another issue with unity and why, why? To the first question of have you seen the unity bleeding I have? I've seen you know I keep under 50 friends on Facebook so that my news feed is not clogged and I only see the people that I want. And also I'm friends with the adults in the church that used to baby sit me and these adults that I've never seen be active on Facebook ever man all live on there. All of them come alive. They come alive in there posting these things. And then there's comments where their friends with other Christians or it's like like bro. I don't think you know what you're talking about. It's like, whoa, like this is very public. Like in our own spheres, the world's eyes is on the things that we see and to be set apart. And I have so many thoughts and somebody's going to cut me off at some point, but I think I think one of the integral issues with unity and why we're struggling is, I think people are identifying each other with political opinions. And in general that's how life works. That's the psychosis of a society. But in my opinion. It seems like the Bible I it seems like we're supposed to identify ourselves by Christ, and I think that's the overall picture. If we take a step back like I think tying that together, it's like your identity is Christ. My identity is Christ. You can have different political opinions and we can have different. And then obviously this calls into question. Well, what if a political opinion is biblically immoral? That's a different conversation that I would love to ask a question about, but but the identity is Christ and I think that's why people. Get on Facebook and they see brothers and sisters that they have broken
bread with before and they've raised their kids together. And they say bro, I don't think you know what you're talking about because they share one opinion about protests or riots and then they think you know what. You don't think that this class of people are important. That's your identity, but that's not our identity and it is this retooling. And it's also it's awesome because every single thought that I have, this is in one way shape or form influenced by a conversation that I've had with all three of you. And this idea of like retooling our brains to think and identify each other. In a different way, when the world teaches you that your identity is is what you espouse, it's the way you walk. It's the political things you have is the friends that you're surrounded with being a creature of another Kingdom. That's something I learned from Johnny series on. Transfiguration an being and the Holy Spirit and what its actual effect is as citizens of an alien world in this world, it's a completely alien way to identify if like look, you have all of us have completely drastically different cultures, opinions, political stances, what we're the same because our identities in Christ, and I think in my opinion, I think that's one of the hearts of where people go wrong because they stop identifying each other by Christ. And then there's, you know, you give up on agape, which is. Obviously always the first step in my opinion. You know, I think Nathan what you just said sort of makes me want to take like just two steps back. 'cause I do think that this part of the conversation is super important. One is sort of really. Being sober. As to who or what if you will is driving their narrative right? And two is really understanding the stakes. Because I keep hearing like. In the media from people, all of this stuff, right? That 
That the stakes are high. Right? Anne. And that is sort of the narrative here, like that, that the narrative is like the soul of America is underlying here, right? And I've heard that so many times, and I've seen it on Facebook, and I've heard it in the news and all this other stuff. And I think it's. At face value, it's a really alarming statement to say like the soul of the nation is on the line here. But my thing is, when has not that been the case? Like when has the soul of America not been on the line? Because in as far as God is considering, as far as like people coming to understand the gospel and in as far as people being saved the soul of America has always and will always be on the line. Right? And in that sense, the stakes are super high, like if we're talking about like the legitimately not in a figurative way, not in an ideological way like it really. In a spiritual sense, the soul of America is on the line, right? And I think once you realize that the soul of America is always been on the line, I think the next realization that you go to is. What is the best solution for that problem? The best solution for that problem is not Joe Biden. And the best solution for the problem is not Donald Trump. And his other Republican Party in his own Democratic Party is not higher taxes or lower taxes is not any of that stuff, right? So it's libertarian. It's nothing, just absolute freedom.
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No, like if the soul of the country really is at stake, right? Who is supposed to be the agent of that Salvation is Christ. But how that Salvation? The agent of that agent is the church. So when you think about like this, those are the stakes. The stakes is the soul of America. But like how how you win? That bet is not through political or ideological rhetoric, is it through the church? And if the church is unable to. Essence, bring the gospel to people because it is not unified. Then we already lossed. Like then we then the solar maker really is Lossed. And I think that's why it's important to have this conversation because, like, again, like you were saying, like if a narrative, that's a narrative right? And if those are the stakes, then it becomes like 10 times more important that we work on the unity of the church and that we intentionally try to figure out how to Unite the church. Right, because if not like. Now that the game is like game is never lost with God, right? Like yeah, like God is not on our time. But like if we are supposed to be the biggest agents of change that were supposed to be the Bringers of the gospel, and we're. Diminished in our ability to do that because of the church being unified. Then it's a problem which, and that's not even an opinion. That's like literally when Jesus in the book of John when he's praying for his future disciples and he says, like God, like, let him be one just like you and I or one so that people will know that you sent me. Like Jesus understood this idea perfectly like the people would know that the Christ had been sent because this group of men and women were going to be one.
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And so yeah, the stakes are high, they've always been hide that stakes have been the same from the beginning like we are talking about people souls but but again, like. We keep going to these places to try to solve that particular problem, and again, that is not going to be solved by those things now. You know, if we think in extremes like if we were under like an oppressive regime just like in North Korea or whatever, or if this were to become coming as Russia as everybody claims or whatever, like what would that be? Would that be harder? Yes, like it totally would be harder, however, were not there. I don't know that that's what's going to become an even if we were there. The Steaks would still be the same. The church would have to find a way to be unified and bring the gospel to people. So then the necessary question becomes, if we know if we can between the four of us truly, you know the Genesis of the savior of all mankind in America right now. If we have decided and agreed that the solution is not through this political ideologue. In this political conversation, what form of unity is necessary like what? What then does the unity have to look like? Because I agree like I. And I think, and it is this completely understandable, because I have felt this way in different things. I completely understand a Christians heart, somebody who is bound by Christ to look at the political landscape to look at candidates and say this person does not represent, I think Godly values. And if he's in charge of the whole nation, then the whole nation will slide in godly values, an obviously godly values don't doesn't matter to people who aren't Christians per say in the grand scheme, but. It just makes the whole fight harder, so as a Christian I need to speak up. I've had Christians, Christians that I
respect deeply and greatly say like yeah, I think Jesus would defend the weak in the oppressed and that he would go out there and he would protest and Jesus would be politically active and the statement that Jesus would defend the weak and oppressed is not wrong is correct. So I can see why people think that it's important to be part of the little conversation and something that you say that maybe I don't fully align with. But I completely understand is that yeah, there's some political. It's OK to have political conversation. It's OK to be part of the political opinion, but if that's not the solution then then what is? Because I agree that being part of the political conversation isn't necessarily, you know. How the church is unified and brings the gospel to the people. So what will that unity look like and how does the church be unified in that? Well, the best answer I can give you, right? And I think what exactly it looks like is Romans and 14. And I already alluded to Romans 12, which is, you know, in it. Paul talks about, like, you know, love one another sincerely and be hospitable to one another and honor one another and serve one another. And all of this stuff, right? And. Let me let me do say this sort of Redering on this whole idea of being conformed to Christ, even though Paul doesn't mention Jesus's name once in Romans 12, like he's basically alluding to Jesus is life like? That is, he's saying like B Christ liked like the way same way that Jesus treated the people at the very people that murdered him. Like you treat people that way, right? But also, and I say this, let me provide some context for Romans 1213 14. Because A is really important for us to understand that this whole idea of unity was of particular interest to Paul. Mainly because the churches that he
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involved himself with by a large except for a couple of them were mostly made up of Jews and Gentiles. And this created a huge problem because of the history of those two groups of people. And I'm not. I don't for the sake of time, I don't want to super delve into this 'cause we could do a whole podcast on this alone, but let me say this when. When the Jews thought about bad people. And when they thought about groups of people who were going to be the recipients of God's terrible judgment, who they thought of was the gentiles like that, is the esteem in which they held the gentiles too, like it was not only like, Oh, there goes those people, but it's like those people are going to receive the wrath of God like that's how bad they are. And so I say that because when. The Kingdom of God is open to this group of people. From the get go you have a problem. Because you have literally centuries of history in which. You weren't really a bad Jew until you until you were compared to the gentiles like. Like when you think about when God exiled the Jews and destroy Jerusalem is when they were at the most gentile that they could be. And so, like the word Jew, that you could be was a gentile like juice and all of a sudden right is like no. These are your brothers and sisters like you are now part of the same Kingdom, right? And all off the bat you have like this problem that that felt like, at least from what we can tell in the epistles, it felt like it was a moral problem like these people are immoral, we're moral, and vice versa. Right? And
so I'm not going to. I'm not going to Harken on Roman cell 'cause I talked about the video and I mentioned it here, but I do want to read this. This is in Romans 14, right? And I'm just going to read a small paragraph here. This is almost 14 verses one through. I'm not sure when I'm going to stop, but this is starting in verse one says. As for the one who is weak in faith and again the the context here is this whole idea of one of the big problems was like, what do we do about food sacrificed to idols, right? And Paul basically says like hey, like idols aren't real. So if people want to eat food sacrificed to idols is basically up to their conscience, right? And it says, As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him like meaning like somebody who believes that. Eating food sacrificed to idols is bad, like it's an immoral thing. Alright, welcome him, but do not quarrel over opinions. One person believes that he may. He may eat anything while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the only one who is despise the one who abstains, another one who abstains pass judgement on the one who eats for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgement on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls, and he will be upheld. For the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day is better than other. Well, another seems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind, the one who observes the day observes that in honor of the Lord, the one who eats eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives things to God, while the one who abstains abstains in honor of the Lord and gives things to God. For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself. For if we live, we live to the Lord. And if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live, or whether we die, we are the Lords. For this N Christ died and lived again, he might be the lower both of the dead and the living. Why'd you Badgers men on your brother, or you
you who despise your brother, for we will stand before the judgment of the seat of God. For it is written as I live, says Lord, every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess to God, so that in each of us will give account of himself to God. Therefore let us not pass judgement on one another any longer, but rather decide and never to put a stumbling block or hindrance. In the way of a brother, and again specifically in the context of this scripture, what this hindrance or stumbling block that Paul is talking about, is opinion, like what someone's opinion is about a particular day of the week about a particular food, about a particular thing he's saying like hey, don't pass judgement on one another. And again he's riedering something that we've brought up here, like two or three times already that at the end of the day, what matters. Is how we stand before the Lord. And let me, well, I'll let you guys talk and then we'll. This will close this out here in a minute. It seems to me that there's a. There's a discrepancy between the way the Bible speaks about unity and the way we talk about unity in our churches in our society. You know we talk about unity. I think we need to have like a redefinition or maybe or maybe allow our understanding of unity to be more aligned with gods in the Bible. Because yes, when we fight from unity in our society, it seems like what we're doing is is. We're just we're looking to remove those who think differently. We were looking right where it's almost like we're really looking for uniformity. Rather than the unity of the Bible talks about, but they can look very similar. So what we're trying to do is we're trying to like I don't know. Just 
exile those who kind of mess with our way of thinking. And. Now the Biblical definition of unity. To me it seems like it's less about. It's less about getting a bunch of people that think the same. Rather, it's with all differences. How does this community survive in the way they behave towards one another, right? Like I think about in Romans 14, but also think about in Ephesians chapter 3 where you just have a bunch of people who just think so differently about the world, they view it so differently. But the power of the Gospel is that when you have people who think so differently, there's still able to love one another to do community together this. Anna, no point is the Bible trying to change the way they think in many of those things, right? Like really, what what they're trying to get them to change is how they view who the King of their personal life is. But but when it comes to their political. Perceptions or whatever it is like, when the models even address this stuff right exactly yeah, and unity is not homogenity, right exactly? That's the bottom line. Yeah, I think about it. What makes this so complicated? What makes this conversation so complicated is that nobody is telling themselves I don't care about unity. I'm OK with being divisive. The problem with this that everyone is like on this push for unity, but the problem is that they say like, no, you're being divisive. I'm trying to unify by changing the way you think, right? That's the problem. That's why it becomes so difficult for us, and I think everyone needs to take a step back and be like it's not about me changing the way that you think you know it doesn't. It doesn't matter whether you think abortion. Is should be lawful or not lawful? And by that I mean like are those things important? Yes, but if you think completely differently that mean it does not change
the fact that Jesus is the Lord of your life and you're doing what you can to glorify him. It doesn't mean that we can't do that sort of community together. We can have two people who in society are on the complete opposite ends of the spectrum and in our society would never find themselves sitting around the table together like you know, enjoying life together when they, when that is seen in the church. That's why outsiders look in and they asked how have you accomplished this, right? How is it that you've accomplished? You know, Bill O'Reilly and like I don't know kobar sitting in the room together like just enjoying life together like those two guys are just complete opposite and how they think they made fun of each other all the time, you know? I mean, how do you have Biden, Ann and trump and Hillary sitting down holidaying together like that doesn't happen. It just doesn't happen and those views don't have to change an I think that's when we start to strive for biblical unity. It has nothing to do with it. From what I understand with. With our different way of understanding things and seeing things in our opinions like it has nothing to do with it. And I think that's how we have to reshape our conversation on unity and how we strive for it. You know what I mean, Nathan? When he mentioned the publics like the public outing of like the way you think is so wrong to me, that that's the kind of divisive nature, right? Because we're reflecting what the world reflects, where if you don't agree with me your lesser than, or if you don't agree with me then then I like I can't be OK with you. And that's when it becomes so problematic. I think Jesus will look at that and be like. So if they think differently than you. Alright. Like I can still be there, King, you know it's only these things like I don't know. I think I can go on about that but yeah, I'll say something. I think the scripture you brought up there in Romans. I think it's 
so football so useful of modern day to parallel to modern day. You know I think what stands out to me is unity is hard if that's what we're being called too is hard because if you put yourself. In their shoes, like. Yeah, the the. The arena of idols and just kind of like Gentile Customs would have just been appalling. Would have just been like just so opposite such a no no go for Jew. And now Paul saying like. You know to kind of look past that or you know and to like. Don't put the weight on it that you would have previously because of Christ and you know we have that today. I think you know, like I think, the way we're set up is very much in a way that if I'm a, for example, if I'm a Biden supporter and the next person is a trump supporter in our culture like those create immediate like hostilities of just like we're complete opposite ends of the spectrum. I can't even like be in the same room with you and what the Bible is telling us is to look past that and you're not attempting to, as if you're Biden supporter then you know, try to find other Biden supporters to be with. Actually the church is gonna look like you know a bunch of supporters on different ends of the spectrum but but they have the spiritual maturity to really know. What what is Supreme about those things? And I think what it teaches us is is understanding what is actually important. And you 
support somebody who thinks that abortion is OK if we know that Christ says that murder? Heck, not even murder. Just being angry is not OK how? How is that unity and how Can you believe in somebody? And how can you vote for somebody who believes that something is OK? That's just not a Christian concept like that's not unity, and I think that's the challenging. Bit like I think, I think, for those people, exactly what John is saying is like unity to me is not. Hey we have different opinions. We come together. It's that we need to agree on the same thing. And if you don't, if we don't agree on the same things and you're causing you know you're causing division and I just think I can see why people think that like they get so caught up in this idea of like no, this is a more this isn't a, they'll go to the extent where it's like this is not a political opinion. It is a moral Christian, Christlike, Biblical, godly opinion that abortion is wrong, and it should be. Like it should never be legalized, and that's where people can get caught up, and I think and I just have to reiterate, 'cause I. You know you guys are older than me and I was raised with your generation 'cause there was a gap when I was growing up in my church in South Florida. There is a gap so there wasn't many people in my great. There's people below migrating people have my grade and I stuck with you guys and so now my contemporaries. They just think differently. Like I it may sound pretentious but I'm not a millennial. I just don't identify with my you are I'm not did. You could say it, I'm not a millennial man I just and the issue. I think it's just there all out here and they're just saying things and I think with people my age are just saying random stuff like completely random stuff but the adults are saying different things. I think the. Issue, I think the solution is exactly what Rodrigo is saying and like there needs to be a focus on it, but there needs to be an understanding because I think I could think to myself, hey, we're just supposed to love one another. That's easy, that's scriptural. That's biblical. That's 
like tenant number. One easy, but there's a reason that works. There's a reason like it, like the idea is like I think about Jesus. And what was Jesus is whole game plan? Was it to become a political figure to inspire revolution and to lead a movement he did that in essence, but what was his game plan in my opinion? And I this might get me off the podcasts, but in my opinion I think Jesus, his game plan was 12 dudes. I think his game plan was twelve guys that I will teach and then they will go and they will serve one person at a time and those people will love other people. And what Johnny said, and this is like this is always on my mind, like I've been looking at Jesus Ministry as Holistic Lee as I can. How many political stances. Did he take I can only think of two one. He talks about taxes and he says it very dismissively. It's like. Hey pay your taxes. Whoever like this is not important. The other one. He took part, he partook in a judicial ceremony, except he didn't really partake in it. He didn't offer defense. He didn't offer evidence. He wasn't part of the judicial process. He just sat there and he said nothing. And then he said, I am who you say I am, and from what I know there's just this lack of concern of the political stance and making a mistake. I think again, what the Millennials get wrong, like man. It is not as bad now as it was in the 1st century. Not even close, and I think what what's happening is people are getting caught up in the fight for public opinion. When Jesus is fight, in my opinion, was a fight not only for the people but for people. For and, the idea is like what is scholars use as pretty convincing evidence that Christianity is a real thing, and that's why it's the number one most
spread religion across the world with many denominations. Sure is because there was an explosion of the religion after the purported time of Jesus death, burial and Resurrection, and the ideal is that it was a one on one, one another serving loving thing. And I think agape embodied an empowered by the Holy Spirit that was promised to us. That Jesus had to go away to send the helper. I think you know. I think Christians can think like no, we need to be part of this public opinion because Rodrigo, saying this is a fight for the nation's soul, I think it's hard for us to have the faith and they have the understanding that the battle is won one another. It's one by agape that we go and we serve. And we love. And even though now, and I think when my whole theory falls apart is if we exegetically look at Jesus's ministry, is Jesus preaching in the streets? If I take that in its context and apply to today's context, is that the equivalent of him posting a tweet? Is that the equivalent of posting a YouTube video? If that's the case, then I'm completely wrong, but from my understanding Jesus spent he spent a good amount of his time preaching. But he spent most of his time just hanging out with tax collectors and the sick and healing and serving, and one on one, and spending spending the night at these people who are purportedly sinners will definitely sinners. And I really believe what I think my generation is missing. Is that if we focus, we can feel the stakes of being part of the political conversation. But really, I think God's design of the Kingdom is that if you love one another and you have true agape love and is reflected when you bring them into your home, and then they can see the Kingdom, that even though it's not sufficient, not technically, logistically, sociologically. Sufficient that we can't reach millions of people at one time with a single video like some of these other public opinion and community
leaders can. Even though it's not efficient, that's the point that God is otherworldly and his love in his reflection in his ambassadors and cry. Somebody in this world will have an otherworldly effect, and I just think that there is a lack of belief and faith in that, and I think people just get the wires. Cross is word of the stakes are let me let me put a nice little bow on this conversation, 'cause we are running out of time, and this has been awesome. 'cause I do, you know? Again, sort of putting things into perspective and understanding the stakes and the narrative and everything here, right?
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Here's the bottom line, like humanity's being having the conversation about morality for as long as humanity's been around. And also there is a conversation that apparently the church in Rome was having 'cause they were very concerned about the morality of eating food sacrificed to idols and all sort of stuff. And. Let me just close up by saying this Paul. This is in Romans 13 is just one verse. It says from 13% it says love does no wrong to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. And again, the law was the the moral law does. A lot of that he's referring to right? And he's saying, like hey, ultimately at the end of the day, what fulfills the law is your love for each other, right? And again, I think these conversations about morality and what's right and what's wrong as a society and politically normal stuff are super important. But the ultimate morality, the one that stands above all of them, is love. And you know you could quote First Corinthians 13, then all that stuff, with the bottom line is like what is above. Everything is our we really loving each other, so there's that. So let me close with this other thought. Ultimately, what we're talking about, and sort of how we began this whole conversation, was how unity is ultimately about being conformed to Christ. An when you think about Christ, Ministrie, right? And talking about the 12 amongst the 12 was a tax collector. Anne. A Zealot? Like if you want to talk about two sides of the political spectrum, there they are. One who worked for Rome and the other one who wanted to kill them all. And then you have and then in between that you have guys who want to take out Rome but don't believe in the violent aspect of taking a Roman. Well it is like that's the only way to do it right? And so so that that was that was part of Jesus inner circle an yet. It all worked because he loved and served them all. And he accepted them all, and both the tax collector. And the Zealot were part of. They were all chosen to be part of the 12. Like think about that. We would never do that like if you were to choose a group of people right? And going back to Johnnys Point, usually when we think of unity we think of like give me all the people that say just like me, but that's not unity. Ultimately, unity again is are we, like Christ, like Christ his ministry was made up of a bunch of different people and it worked because he loved, accepted, served and he died for all of them. And so ultimately, like unity for the church in times like these needs to live in the exact same place. We need to love people, whether we agree with them, politically or not. And again, all these political conversations are super important. And if we disagree on abortion? Right pen, like I'm still going to love you. And I'm still going to serve you, and I'm still going to be with you and I'm still going to call you my brother. You can still welcome to come, and we may have quite the argument over this particular topic. But you know what? Like man, like I love you. Like that, that that's that's the culture that were supposed to happen. I think ultimately that's a conversation that we're having here is like, yeah, we totally to reframe the whole idea of Unity, 'cause otherwise, like again, we're lost. We are lost. And so with that, that is not be lossed. And let us be unified. Guys. This was awesome. We are going to do another episode on this topic next week and just really explore the whole idea. Of how do you even begin to do this? Like what kind of person do you have to be or what kind of character traits or how do you even begin to do this? Is basically the conversation we're going to
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have in. For those of you listening. Thank you so much for your time and your attention and go in peace.