[01:00:00;12 - 01:00:14;18] Speaker 2 The service academies and ROTC programs throughout America are built to form officers who will fight in and lead soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines in our nation's wars. [01:00:15;23 - 01:00:22;03] Speaker 2 In reality, those institutions have started to look more and more like any old university. [01:00:22;03 - 01:00:27;05] Speaker 2 We have experience at those places, and we know that it's time to fix it. [01:00:27;05 - 01:00:41;14] Speaker 2 Today's topic is officer formation reform and what it will take to return our service academies and ROTC programs to institutions of military excellence and lethality. [01:00:41;14 - 01:01:17;25] Speaker 2 Doug, we both have experience. You're a West Point graduate. I commissioned out of ROTC. And we'll start with the service academies, but one thing that I kept hearing from members of the Board of Visitors over the past few years as we've been pursuing these kinds of reforms is that, hey, these are universities too. And so they've got to adjust their mindset and their policies to this divergent mission set. And I think up front, we want to firmly reject soundly that mindset. [01:01:18;28 - 01:02:51;16] Speaker 1 no, it's it's troubling that ended up there, and I think about You know we're actually working on some board of visitors reform on the side here to try to tell these folks This is not just you know you go get to go up there and have some cocktail parties and affirm everything you hear But you're actually holding them accountable to the mission and you know like what you said a second ago You know the point of these academies is not on into into themselves like oh It's this great place because you know I went to West Point. I didn't appreciate it much when I was going, but you look back It's like wow what an awesome place. There's many many good things about it and Still to this day however I think what happened is it has been happening is they've lost sight of the fact that the only reason they exist is to win our wars to put out officers that will win the wars not to Put out Heisman Trophy winners not to you know Look like the rest of the universities around them some kind of like military version of the Ivy League It's not that at all. I think that that because of the Kind of prestige of the academies in West Point in particular I think it gets it's easy to get insular and lost in the concept of Like oh, we're so great, and we can do anything and so you've now got this situation Particularly at West Point where there is some Form of like the deep state in there, and and that's where we're gonna get into this concept of how do you root this stuff out? Over the long haul because this is of all the things we've been talking about this is the long haul stuff right here [01:02:51;17 - 01:03:45;06] Speaker 2 Well, and again, we've said this on a few different episodes, and I'll just acknowledge as an ROTC graduate, it's clear that West Point is a near sacred institution. It is a place of excellence and it's worth preserving. And so that's the auspices under which I think we should have this discussion. But like when we were discussing the merit in the military policy proposal, I mentioned that Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara started the push for affirmative action and racial equity in the military in the Civil Rights Act. What I didn't say, but I will say now, is that he started that effort to take over the military at West Point. He started with race quotas on the admissions class that were consistent and persistent until 2021 under President Trump's, [01:03:46;07 - 01:04:02;20] Speaker 2 really 2025 under President Trump's second term. So West Point has been this laboratory of elite political thought and ideology. It has maintained this veneer of military excellence, literally a camouflage. [01:04:03;22 - 01:04:08;27] Speaker 2 But I don't think you can say too often that it has been a place of politics for some [01:04:08;27 - 01:04:09;07] Speaker 2 decades [01:04:09;07 - 01:04:33;23] Speaker 1 That's right well, and I think that you know it was it was a steady trend line what you're talking about there But the one of the benefits of the Biden administration is the all this the all-in nature of it You know we're gonna really start pushing this stuff now And so much of what we do and restore the military and will you're a huge part of this obviously is this? You know the the generals and admirals that we put up there on the website. They're like these guys are a problem [01:04:34;23 - 01:05:31;29] Speaker 1 Well it they some of these guys at West Point went all-in and you know and my thing has always been and we've talked About this so many times We understand if the commander-in-chief It's you know Biden or whatever and and he's like well We're gonna do this and you you know you're lieutenant colonel or whatever Or even a one-star two-star, and you're like okay Do the thing and you do it and okay put that in the trash and let's go do the stuff right What we're after is the guys that bought in yes that said oh? This is great, and we're gonna take it up a notch in our in our you know where we got our purview You know and and to me. I'm you know it is a it's a fact It's not just my opinion if you view the concept of oh I need that I need to have like um I need I need to make sure that this happens so that We can kind of in a sense segregate Oh, this skin color is more valuable than the rest of them You know this person is more valuable than ever that is the definition of degrading unity [01:05:31;29 - 01:05:44;09] Speaker 1 which is the one thing you have to have when it comes the bullets are flying You better all be on the same page and go forward or you have real problems And if you're a flag officer, and you don't get that out you go gotta [01:05:44;09 - 01:05:44;18] Speaker 1 to go. [01:05:44;18 - 01:06:43;22] Speaker 2 In July of 2023, the chiefs of the service academies all explicitly defended the practice of categorizing and selecting new cadets based on their skin color and sex. And to my mind, it is simply a question of integrity to then not expect those same men to reverse the policy that they so vigorously defended under oath. And that's happened for the Air Force Academy and for the Naval Academy. It didn't end up happening for West Point. But I think that example needs to be crystal clear that it was not just a question of following orders. It at least appeared to me and to others that these institutions were built around the premise that diversity is our strength, when in reality, diversity poses a real risk to a unit cohesion if it's not fostered on the importance of unity and mission [01:06:43;22 - 01:06:44;01] Speaker 2 first [01:06:44;01 - 01:07:11;22] Speaker 1 that's right And it took and it's been going on so long to the point you made a minute ago And then now the ramp up like what we're describing here The other problem that's existed now is there's a lot of civilians in there like way more than when I was a cadet Like like almost I can't even remember Civilian professors yeah, but it's everywhere now You know and and it creates not only in the professors But also in the admissions department Because it's a pretty sweet gig if you can you can land at West [01:07:11;22 - 01:07:12;00] Speaker 1 Point [01:07:12;00 - 01:07:40;25] Speaker 1 and you're like I'm gonna stay here for the rest of my career. Hey, that's a that's pretty nice It's a nice place all that stuff and so they're in there and so we have to we have to you know We have to make it illegal what they're doing and then enforce it when they do do it And then they'll get the message I just regardless of what I may feel I have to do it this way Which is the right way going forward? otherwise, it's like we're saying this is this is a long this thing's got a really long tail on it and It could really hurt the military just all [01:07:40;25 - 01:07:41;07] Speaker 1 over the [01:07:41;07 - 01:08:07;08] Speaker 2 place." Truly. Because the officers who were born and formed in this chaos of diversity and the politics of the left are getting promoted as we speak. They're still in. We've got to really, I think, use the force of law to squash it. You know, ROTC produces about 5,000 to 6,000 officers, at least for the Army every year, West Point 1,000 to 1,200 officers every year. ROTC in many ways is a whole other beast. [01:08:08;12 - 01:09:11;29] Speaker 2 You know, it's definitely not as elite, but you still get a huge yield, and it has to be confronted. You know, I'm an interesting case study, and the problem with ROTC, I went to a private university in New York, a mediocre school in many ways, but a robust ROTC program. I was fortunate enough to receive an ROTC scholarship, and the Army paid for me to get a degree in what was called American Studies. Now, American Studies is basically academic euphemism for critical race theory. And so, you know, imagine, and I sadly only realize this in hindsight, but imagine the bizarre nature of a world where the federal government and the military will pay for a future infantry officer, in my case, to receive a four-year degree built on the principles that America is inherently racist and poisoned in some ways that requires a political revolution. Now, I'm not their defendant. Exactly. Right. [01:09:13;14 - 01:09:34;05] Speaker 2 But to me, I mean, I think whether you're at ROTC or West Point, we cannot expect, we have to expect there to be some coherence between the academics and the mission that all these cadets will have to serve. It's not a neutral, you know, pure, liberal environment. It has to be united. [01:09:34;05 - 01:09:38;27] Speaker 1 Oh, totally and the drift has been constantly, you know, you thankfully you turned out great [01:09:38;27 - 01:09:39;12] Speaker 1 Yeah, [01:09:39;12 - 01:09:39;15] Speaker 2 right. [01:09:39;15 - 01:09:40;03] Speaker 1 But the [01:09:40;03 - 01:09:49;23] Speaker 1 drift has been constantly in this direction and I remember when I was a cadet So going back a few years You know when you're at the academies, you don't really get summer break [01:09:49;23 - 01:09:50;07] Speaker 2 You [01:09:50;07 - 01:09:51;02] Speaker 1 know, you [01:09:51;02 - 01:09:51;14] Speaker 1 get a little-- [01:09:51;14 - 01:09:51;26] Speaker 2 You get to train. [01:09:51;26 - 01:09:54;27] Speaker 1 But you go do different training and I always loved it because it was like that was real [01:09:54;27 - 01:09:56;05] Speaker 1 army training. I [01:09:56;05 - 01:10:36;28] Speaker 1 remember thinking back when I was like when I was in class because I wasn't big into academics I was always like Ali if we could get more of the military history stuff or if I could get The longer they used to cram like military training instruction like in a two-week period I think right after Christmas or something like that where they would it was pretty intense and it was good But I was always like we should do more of this because you know I got to go be a second lieutenant and I need to know my stuff, you know And and to realize over the years after I left in particular That this steady decline into these situations to then to the you know You see that, you know, the superintendent and the Dean are endorsing these DEI Seminars and there's got these made majors or minors and there's all [01:10:36;28 - 01:10:50;29] Speaker 1 kinds of stuff going on I'm like, wow, how bad did it get in terms of how prepared or unprepared are these cadets? Are they once they're graduating if they've got this other stuff, you know Poisoning their minds to begin with and they're not prepared militarily. [01:10:50;29 - 01:10:51;10] Speaker 2 Right. [01:10:52;13 - 01:10:53;05] Speaker 1 And [01:10:53;05 - 01:12:01;16] Speaker 2 I mean, we discovered, you know, at RTM that West Point professors were sponsoring coursework on the history of cross-dressing in the military. Right? This wasn't just a theoretical-- Heartbreaking. Yeah, exactly. And so, you know, we propose a few things. One is to anchor the officer formation experience around the battlefield expectations of tactical leaders. You know, we offer a 12-week tactical commissioning program that, again, exists in some form already, but what I think is worth reminding the audience and what we want to remind members is that you need to anchor this in law because it's subject to the whims of individual commanders who want to change it. About eight years ago, there was a commander, a female two-star, who came in and removed basically any strenuous aspect of the tactical evaluation portion of ROTC. It was a disaster, quickly reversed, but we can't afford for that to happen again because, again, like we've talked about, Doug, war is the future. We have to prepare like war is in our future. It's not a theoretical exercise. [01:12:01;16 - 01:12:02;19] Speaker 1 That's right. That's right. And there's [01:12:02;19 - 01:12:58;01] Speaker 1 so many people that want to come in with their grandiose ideas at the time and like you said, you know They're there and they're there and then they're gone and then the damage they can do in the meantime So you have to get serious about this and I also again, you know West Point love it on many levels but you get into the situation I kind of view it as like The school of choice effort if all you've got is the public school then that's what's all you got, right? but if there's competition, you know, we talk about these things like different places to get commissioned where you're just gonna got heavy duty military training heavy duty Evaluation all kinds of stuff and then you become a second lieutenant in some other way besides, you know Going through an Academy or RTC. Okay. Now we're talking, you know What's and the number one thing here is like well, we got to defend our country in the future This is not just like oh we get to sit on our laurels here and we got this great thing and and no you got to defend It and if you're not ready You're you're big trouble big [01:12:58;01 - 01:13:10;18] Speaker 2 Right. Well, and so, you know, ROTC programs are actually subject to a lot of authority of the president and the secretary of war and the secretary of the respective services. [01:13:11;26 - 01:13:58;21] Speaker 2 We propose codifying conditions-based receipt of ROTC scholarship money. So if a school is going to teach kids critical race theory, if a school is going to codify DEI as part of their academic or admissions policy, they're not going to get ROTC money. And that is, I think, the kind of power that we should expect of our representatives to not just seize power for power's sake, but to ensure that we can restore the military, that it is an institution that can survive and be strong throughout the 21st century because we can't leave any sort of political options on the table just because the left and the establishment might categorize them as extreme. They're necessary. [01:13:58;21 - 01:13:59;05] Speaker 1 That's [01:13:59;05 - 01:14:00;21] Speaker 1 And I think politically speaking [01:14:01;24 - 01:14:43;24] Speaker 1 Everyone knows what's going on and people were saying wait So the so you expect these these ROTC programs to be all you know Patriotic and go to fit in the country while the rest of the university is just the complete 180 right opposite of what's going on Everybody's like though you couldn't do that, but it kind of didn't it didn't really land anywhere Just so let's not talk about it and you know overcome by events of other things and stuff like that But politically speaking, I think every patriotic American American would say no No, no if that University has that attitude We're not gonna send our sons and daughters over there to get ready to defend the country while they got to put up with all that crap We're just not doing it. You know, you can't have the money and that'll send a great message and it'll change things [01:14:45;08 - 01:14:59;10] Speaker 1 For a long time, I think and I think that We need to have some major Structural changes. That's what everything we've been talking about and this is one of those areas You got to go big or go home You got to send the message that you can't get that federal money if you're gonna act that way, [01:14:59;10 - 01:15:46;14] Speaker 2 Right. And so some other quick highlights of the proposal. We want 80 percent of faculty to be either active duty or veterans. We want to reduce the number of civilian faculty. Not anything against them, but it's just a question of, again, the mission of the university. We want to refocus, I think, the academics on STEM, engineering, military science. Not to say that there isn't a space for the liberal arts, but again, focus matters. And then we want to imbue tactics and combat training, simulated combat training, into more of a 12-month year for both ROTC and West Point cadets. I imagine that was kind of what you wanted when you were thinking of your summer experiences [01:15:46;14 - 01:15:46;26] Speaker 2 as a [01:15:46;26 - 01:15:47;24] Speaker 1 cadet. Prepare for war. [01:15:47;24 - 01:15:48;11] Speaker 4 Right. [01:15:48;11 - 01:16:09;24] Speaker 1 because if you if you're and I know you've had this experience, too If you're a cadet Academy ROTC or whatever you're thinking to yourself. Wow I might have to lead men into combat here and you know My senior year was the first Gulf War and we watched it. I'm thinking. All right, we'll see what's gonna happen here Now that was over in three days, but you know, it's still the same concept. He's just like I got to get ready [01:16:09;24 - 01:16:10;05] Speaker 1 here. [01:16:10;05 - 01:16:22;07] Speaker 1 I don't want to be unprepared because People are gonna die if I'm unprepared and so we're talking about the high level defend the country Which is the most important thing but also for the sake of the folks That are leading and then being led [01:16:22;07 - 01:16:26;16] Speaker 1 the other side of this like we covered in a previous episode is the recruitment [01:16:26;16 - 01:16:40;05] Speaker 1 Yes, you know if you're if you're a mom out there and your son wants to go be an 11 Bravo infantry You know on the ground just making it happen and you're like, well the officer Corps. Well, they're not they're not very serious [01:16:40;05 - 01:17:04;24] Speaker 1 these guys that are get the second lieutenants. I I don't want them leading my son into combat So it has this really pernicious Attitude across the entire population where people are just like I don't know about what's going on But if you reverse it if you have military instructors that are you know Have been in combat and all these you know people are okay now We're now we're going the right direction and that's that'll give the entire country a lot more confidence in this thing [01:17:04;27 - 01:18:20;08] Speaker 2 You know, it goes back to how we conceive of the military as an institution in civil society. You know, we, you and I know that the military is a hierarchical, small c conservative institution. It is you subject your individual desires to the good of the unit. You are duty bound to do what others tell you to do, even if you don't want to do it. And our society is small L liberal, built on basically the exact opposite premise. You know, America is built on self-actualization, self-fulfillment, whatever, again, euphemism you want. And I'm not necessarily weighing on judgment there. But the military and our civil society exist in tension with each other. And so I think policymakers have to essentially work extra hard to ensure that we preserve the things that make our military unique, because it is those things that will help our military win wars. And if we try and build bridges to civil society and make the flavor like civilian life in certain ways, I think what we found over the last decades is that it's hard to maintain that identity at [01:18:20;08 - 01:18:29;09] Speaker 1 right. That's right. That's right and it cuts against the grain of Anybody that wants to join the military because they want to they want to join to be a warrior [01:18:29;09 - 01:18:31;27] Speaker 2 Exactly. And you want [01:18:31;27 - 01:18:33;14] Speaker 1 Be part of that culture [01:18:33;14 - 01:18:34;01] Speaker 2 Right. [01:18:34;01 - 01:18:38;17] Speaker 1 the one that's different not going. Oh, this looks like my high school [01:18:38;17 - 01:18:39;23] Speaker 4 Exactly. Yeah. [01:18:39;23 - 01:18:49;17] Speaker 1 talking about the same stuff in here. It's like no they want a complete departure Different focus. That's what they're looking for. And by the way, that's what we need as a country Otherwise, we're not gonna survive [01:18:49;17 - 01:18:53;02] Speaker 2 Exactly. Because I think the future will be a lot more uncertain. That's right. [01:18:53;02 - 01:19:30;14]