Cassandra Ellis BMB Chp 13
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[00:00:00] Jean Greene: We are welcoming to our program today Miss Cassandra Ellis. Miss Ellis has a deep connection to the Utica campus and to the story of William Holtzclaw. been a student on the Utica campus. She has been an employee on the Utica campus and she is a friend of the museum and the programs that we have been doing to encourage students to learn the story of William Holtzclaw.

So, welcome. Thank you. 

[00:00:36] Cassandra Ellis: Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity. This has been great. My journey has been awesome with the Utica community. I love Utica. It's, you know, my home of all homes in my heart. So, thank you. 

[00:00:50] Jean Greene: So, what we're going to talk about today during this time, is Black Man's Burden, Chapter 13.

The first thing [00:01:00] have been talking to folks about is their impression of the book. how did you get into it, get into his story? 

[00:01:08] Cassandra Ellis: Well, my first impression of the book was very informative, educational. I love the fact that he never gave up. Like, he always pursued his dream, his vision, and his goals.

So no matter who put him down, hurt him or anything that, that factor, he made sure that he stayed, you know, in tune with the goals that he wanted to do. 

[00:01:30] Jean Greene: Exactly. That's right. That, that was one of the things that really resonated with me because especially today sometimes we'll get discouraged by the obstacles that are thrown in our path that we stumble over.

And it's not how many times you fall down and Holtzclaw showed that. If you get back up, you can keep on going. You can put that one foot in front of the other. So yes, that's definitely something that has real world implications to me. [00:02:00] Don't let your, your setbacks hold you back. Mm hmm. Yes. Anything else about Holtzclaw 

[00:02:07] Cassandra Ellis: Other than the fact that he made sure he had people to kind of support him on his journey.

Sometimes he didn't have people to support him, but he first thought anyway. But the fact that he had a lot of people that was there to support him because they saw the vision that he was trying to pursue. And I just love the fact that, you know, there are people, not only of color people, there's other races that will help him pursue the dream of what, you know, the Negroes at that point in time needed, you know, help making that dream into reality is the main thing that really stuck out to me. 

[00:02:45] Jean Greene: And you just mentioned that he had not just black people supporting him. Yeah. And not just white people way off somewhere supporting him. He had support from whites and black folks in the [00:03:00] Utica community and surrounding areas.

when he first came to Mississippi, he wasn't getting that. Mm hmm. Not at all. So let's talk a little bit about um, This chapter he's trying to to get some land in this chapter. 

[00:03:13] Cassandra Ellis: Yes. He is trying to get I believe 1600 anchors of land For the school since you know, they already established the school down the street like a five miles down the street And they already had some buildings But his vision and goal is to move the school into a bigger area so that he can You know, more people will be able to be educated, be able to learn different skills.

So his dream and his goals was to move the school down the street with bigger buildings or bigger places for people to learn so that everybody, not just people in the Utica environment but other people from other parts of Mississippi can come in and actually, you know, be educated at this lovely college. [00:04:00] So, the fact that he pursued a dream or goal of getting this 16 acres he had some challenges.

Financial challenges was the main thing, but the other main thing was people did not want him to get the land. Because it was only about a mile away from the town where most of the Caucasians were So they did not really want him to get the land because they felt like it's going to disrupt Their town and things were going to cause some problems and issues, right?

He pretty much gave speeches and Gave you know different notaries letting them know it's not gonna cause any issues or trouble and if anything it's gonna improve things Help out the community help out the town Improve people's skills and mindset and educate them So it should not be a worry that you know, if we build the school down the street from you guys It's gonna be alright, like we're not going to disrupt anything We're not gonna come to the town and destroy anything and anything's gonna help you guys, right?

[00:05:00] So He just made sure to make that known, 

[00:05:03] Jean Greene: but that, that was that problem. He had somebody that owned that land that promised it to him. Yes. But he didn't get it in writing. 

[00:05:11] Cassandra Ellis: Mm-Hmm. He did not get in writing unfortunately. But even though he did not get it in writing, the Lord was in good faith of him.

And the people who did try to stop him, you know, later on decided, okay, we're not gonna get the man. You can pretty much go forth and try to buy it, even though at that point in time, the land price, you know, got a little higher, but he still pursued it and people were willing to help get resources and funds so that he will able to get the land.

But I think one of his close friends, he was a banker and he was the one who pretty much, I think in the beginning I'm not sure it was, he was the banker at that point in time or another. But they denied him the loan at first of getting the money for the the land right and then later on a [00:06:00] couple years a couple months They actually, you know gave him the resources to buy the land because you know different people Of board of trustees, you know promised their parts of the land or their pledges and things of that nature, right?

To try to you know, help and assist him in getting the land. 

[00:06:19] Jean Greene: While you were you were talking about that I wanted to, to add in a point about 

when the man Promising the land, but he didn't get in and write it. And he went back and the man denied him the deal. The land deal. Some of his associates said, you ought to sue this man. But he was told if you sue the man, it may make problems for you down the road. And I'm really happy he followed that advice. When Holtzclaw writes this story and he tells it, to me it seemed a little like a Christmas story movie, you know. Everything was just so terrible, and then on Christmas Day, [00:07:00] all of these great things happened.

And all of these telegrams, you know, Bringing the money to him just fell in his lap over the course of a few hours So sometimes when you're reading it, it seems a little too good to be true. 

[00:07:13] Cassandra Ellis: Sometimes it does but you know reality doesn't happen like that at times So even though you feel like you're short down and out and nothing's gonna come through Sometimes it comes right on time just when you need it and that happens a lot and a lot of people don't believe in it 

[00:07:29] Jean Greene: Yes, that's true.

I think about how the school has changed over the course of the time that I've been here. And I find peace and encouragement in Holtzclaw's story. Because I look around at some of the changes that have been made. I've been here since 2000, and it's now 2023. For more information, visit www. fema. gov And over the course of that time, it seems like the school has been on a downward decline.

We lost [00:08:00] the high school. We lost the amount of students that we had. We, we have lost funding in several different areas. And it, it looks like sometimes we're getting closer to the end. And then something will happen. Someone will come through. We'll get someone that'll come to the campus that'll be excited about a program Or wants to involve students in technology or wants to involve students in re igniting the agriculture program. And what we need is to give encouragement to those folks. 

[00:08:36] Cassandra Ellis: Mm hmm. 

[00:08:36] Jean Greene: When they come to us on fire instead of being this, you know, we ain't got no money. We ain't got no money.

We're never going to have the money. 

[00:08:46] Cassandra Ellis: It's about pooling resources and knowing how to get things without money. Because a lot of people like to donate. Like to give things out like they're not using or anything of that nature so you can recycle some of the things [00:09:00] or you can give certain projects to certain departments so that they can, you know, use their skills so that they can teach their students better.

Hey, this is you can make a dress for this person for this event You can build a little house or a doghouse for someone that's down the street Like certain little things that you can give projects to for the students on campus. And then if you have anybody that's Coming to the campus trying to bring a new program, at least entertain the idea you can see where it can possibly go You know, you might not have the resources.

The person that came to you might have some resources for you to be able to jumpstart that program. Exactly. Exactly. I really like that thought. 

Because you and I have seen that play out. And I, I'm always thrown back to when Holtzclaw started, where he came from and how he pulled those programs in and help students where they were. he didn't try to, you know, push this aside, the student [00:10:00] aside and go, well, they're not Spellman material.

They're not Howard material. I can't deal with them.. He dealt with them all and their parents. 

Just all of them. Yeah. Every last one of them. They just used the resources that they felt like that person can do, the skills that they already had to have them to improve on it. Pretty much just allowing them to be themselves and just giving them more tools to be more advanced.

So there's just helping them out in different ways instead of showing them to the side. That's the main thing that I loved about Holtzclaw. He believed in his people and believed in the fact that, you know, even though we might not have that much resources, we can do a lot with a little. you know You guys can pull together and actually still expand with the little resources that you have just because you have small resources does not mean you can't make a big impact 

[00:10:52] Jean Greene: say that again for the people in the back Just because you have small resources does not [00:11:00] mean You cannot make a bigger impact.

[00:11:02] Cassandra Ellis: Oh, 

[00:11:03] Jean Greene: yes, ma'am. That is so true And we get caught up in what we can't do. We overlook what we can do. we overlook the impact we can make by looking for, sometimes we look for the newest. And we don't really need that to get where we need to get to. Because sometimes our students need, and we need, basic.

[00:11:29] Cassandra Ellis: I always like the basic because if you start off with the basic, at least the personnel or the scholars that you're trying to teach. So they can, you know, gravitate towards the advanced when they get along that way. But most people like to go to the advanced. And a lot of people are left behind because they don't understand the advanced resources that we have.

So if you're not really teaching the basic concepts, Right then, you know, they tend to get lost or far [00:12:00] behind. Yes. Due to the new resources that we have. 

[00:12:03] Jean Greene: That's right. 'cause you, you, you may discourage someone that just needs a little bit of a push, a little bit of encouragement.

And that's something that I think we need to reinstate what I used to. of was us taking, us, the faculty and staff, taking on students, as mentees. We mentored students, and that can be in any form. It could be encouraging to go to class, helping them find a tutor helping them find Maybe they think they don't have the clothes to wear.

Helping them understand that they are fine the way they are. A lot of them come here and have zero time management skills. And just helping them get along that path. You had talked at one time about giving them an ear. 

[00:12:59] Cassandra Ellis: Mm [00:13:00] hmm. Just giving them an active listening ear.

Giving them somebody to speak to or talk to if they're having issues or problems, then you'll be able to sit there and be that confident person so that, you know, they'll be able to express to you, hey, this is going on at home or hey, I don't think school is working out for me. And you can give them Pretty much advice on things that you can give advice to, or directing to a personnel that can give them better advice than you can.

So the main thing is making sure you're that person that they can come to, so that they can talk to. So they can feel more open, because a lot of students don't feel like they can be open So. You leave that door open for them and let them know, but you have to let them know that you're able and willing to listen to them.

Then they're more more likely to come to you to talk about certain things, right? And you not being judgmental or anything of that nature will allow them to feel more comfortable with you. So pretty much being able to be the [00:14:00] active listener and just being engaged with the students and not shutting them down or actually supporting them when they have an event on campus or doing something Shows them.

Oh, okay. They really care. Oh I can go to this person and show them my project I can go to this person and see if they can help me, you know, matriculate in this area. So just leaving that door open so that they'll be able to see that you're transparent and you're able to help them if they need that assistance.

[00:14:27] Jean Greene: Exactly. I like that. Active listening. That means not really ready to jump in and interject something, right? Yes. But listening to that person. Constructively. 

[00:14:39] Cassandra Ellis: Yes, just sitting there being patient let them talk out the things that they need to talk out. And if you have advice for them to help improve their life, then give it to them.

But if you don't have that advice, don't give them wrong advice. go talk to the counselor. She might, you know, be able to put you in a better position. or go talk to your teacher to see if you [00:15:00] can better understand their assignment that you're going through. You know, just being able to sit there and just actually listen.

Don't interrupt. Don't, you know, put your two cents in. Just sit there and listen. 

[00:15:13] Jean Greene: Some of us are hard. That's hard for some of us. I'm not going to call them the names but yes, some of us, --me-- have hard time with that. But yeah, putting students on the right path, in fact encouraging each other.

[00:15:29] Cassandra Ellis: Mm hmm. 

[00:15:29] Jean Greene: Because sometimes we need encouragement when we're in an area and maybe we're not getting quote unquote the support from the community or our, our administrator or our whoever's above us. We need to have an ear maybe that needs to be an active listening ear as well. 

[00:15:48] Cassandra Ellis: Mm hmm. It can be cause you find in a lot of, I would say not only communities, but faculty and staff communities, sometimes you see people support each other and you see some people hating on each other.[00:16:00] 

So just trying to be more of a fairy oriented or more of just, you know, being self caring for each other is better than, you know, destroying each other. 

[00:16:11] Jean Greene: Oh, I'm going to bring this chapter to a close we're going to thank Ms. Cassandra Ellis for sharing that with us. 

[00:16:20] Cassandra Ellis: Yes, ma'am.