audio Bobby Cooper BMB Chp 9
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[00:00:00] 

So welcome to our podcast Sips from the Sip and with me today is Professor Emeritus of Music. And Jubilee Singer Director, Dr. Bobby G. Cooper. 

Welcome, Dr. Cooper. 

Thank you. 

What I wanted us to talk about today is Black Man's Burden, Chapter 9. And I know you looked at that and you're very familiar with it. But that talks about not only the Jubilee Singers but Holtzclaw's talks. In and around New York and New Hampshire, and sort of his take on the political climate of Mississippi.

But what I wanted us to focus on, Dr. Cooper, was how the Jubilee Singers of his day compared to when you recreated in the late [00:01:00] 70s, was it? 

Yes, 72. In 72, the 

early 

70s, 

When I read that chapter, Dr. Cooper, I was touched by several things. One that Mr. Holtzclaw understood what his audience wanted and he brought to them a group that would give them some of what they needed so he could get what he needed.

But I wanted to see how you felt about that initial. His, his starting with the Jubilee Sings. 

Okay. Dr. Holtzclaw talks about the Jubilee Sings in the first paragraph of Chapter 9 only. Just the first paragraph. Shortly after the school was organized, during the very first summer, that's when he took a quartet.

of young men on a tour to accompany him. Now let's, let's think [00:02:00] about that quartet. Right. That's how they started, four singers, a quartet. And this is exactly what he did. His reason for doing so was to interest more people in a work that he was engaged in, in Utica. Yes. That's why he wanted to take the singers with him.

Not, I don't think not so much to, you know, be in concert or to do that. But he wanted them to be engaged in what he was doing in Utica. 

Yes. 

His travel with the Singers carried him through the Catskills and the Adirondacks Mountains. Now when I think about the Adirondack Mountains, early in my career, I received a grant from the Ford Foundation, and they sent me To Lake Placid, New York.

Wow. Yeah, I was in Lake, in the Adirondack [00:03:00] Mountains. Huh. And I taught music and nature at the school there in Lake Placid, New York. Wow. So, it kind of reminded me of what, you know, what was happening at that time. Huh. Now, also, this was along the shore of Massachusetts and Maine, okay? What an adventure this turned out to be.

You know, it was, okay. Don't forget that this was in the early 1900s, 1903 to be more specific when he founded the Utica Normal and Industrial Institute and segregation was indeed rampant, to say the least. 

Oh, that's right. That's right. 

1903. The reality of the times living in the early 1900s appeared in New Hampshire.

Where getting accommodations at night was a no, no. That's right. [00:04:00] That's right. Remember, we're talking about the jubilee singing at the quartet. Mm hmm. Talking about Dr. Holtzclaw. Mm hmm. Talking about Mr. William Harris, the person that he appointed to be with the quartet. Right.

Those are the people that we're talking about. Okay. Needless to say, after leaving the train, getting where they wanted to go, which was their mode of transportation, The train station closed for the night, left them in the cold, even though it was summer, but it was still cold in that area. They dare not seek shelter on the outside.

That was the ground. They walked up and down the railroad track to keep themselves warm. Becoming tired from the frequent walking, the [00:05:00] singers and director, became tired they automatically start dropping to the ground. They just couldn't take it no longer. They were so tired walking up and down the tracks trying to keep themselves warm.

Yes. Well, what happened to them, Mr. Harris, remember who Mr. Harris was, he was the director of the quartet. Yes. Contracted a cold and never recovered from it. And as a result, he died. Oh, yes, that's right. That's right. Dr. Holtzclaw walked the entire night and was able to survive the incident. Huh. Now that's the only account of the singers that was mentioned. Okay. Now, just kind of going through the rest of, you know, of the chapter, after the adventure with the railway, Dr. Hostcroft [00:06:00] received an invitation to speak at a hotel in Georgetown, New York.

Uh 

huh. Where most of his guests were Southern people, and he reluctantly accepted this invitation because he had never addressed such a group in a Northern state. After speaking to the audience. He knows that several of the people were visibly affected by what he had to say. However, remember that this was a Southern audience.

We have to keep that in our mind. 

That's right. 

One man consoled his wife after the speech and her remarks to Holtzclaw replied, Come on, dear. The niggas would come through. All right. Now remember, they were from the South. Yeah. Of course, this was. A Southerner from Mississippi. Oh, yeah. Okay. Great things came out of this, according to Dr.

Holtzclaw. A lady by the name of Miss Jewel. Remember that? [00:07:00] Oh, Vidalia 

Jewett. 

Yeah, she became interested in his work and she visited Utica. Oh, yeah. In the early stages of construction of the school, the first building was not finished upon her arrival. So it was just kind of There, right. Nothing was finished.

However, she made herself welcome and comfortable with her funds. Miss Martin was a professor from Leland Standard University. As a result of what she saw, she resolved to erect a building in memory of her mother. The building was known as the Mary K. Jewett Memorial. So you see, something did come out of those speeches that he made up there in New York. Okay. Dr. Holtzclaw observed as the work developed in the building of his institution.[00:08:00] 

What was most needed by the people was training and development that Dr. Washington was giving to the people of Alabama industrial education. And he was not able to do that. You know, here at Utica because of a lack of funds to do so. Dr. Holtzclaw decided to go to New York to seek funds to continue his endeavor.

Right. His first adventure was with Dr. Henry E. Cobb, one of the ministers of the area that he visited. After meeting with Minister Cobbs and explaining what was needed, And what he proposed to do, Dr. Cobbs agreed to consider them right after corresponded and meeting with others in New York area, Mr. Evans, Dr.

Washington and other agreed to have Dr. Holtzclaw with his project. He was invited to attend one of the Wednesday evening prayer meetings [00:09:00] to talk to his congregation. After attending one of the prayer meetings, many people came forward to meet Dr. Holtzclaw, shake his hand and made a donation of $250. That was a lot of money then a lot of money back then.

It really was. Other possibilities came out of the meeting. He was given a press and two or three cases of type to start a printer's trade. One of the ladies present gave apparatus in order to start a sewing room. Fifty dollars was given for tools. Dr. Holtzclaw took some of the money to buy tools for the beginning of a blacksmith shop.

As a result, in less than two months, new enterprises were running. As time passed, other industries were added to the ones mentioned. Because of a lack of funds. Well, let me, let me say this.[00:10:00] Things didn't go well because of lack of funds. They didn't actually know how to do these kinds of things.

Okay, right. They needed more instructors who were trained to do these kinds of things. That's correct. That's right. However, improvement over time happened. Because of more experienced instructors, 

Much happened to downgrade the Negroes during this period, Mr. James K. Vardaman, editor in the delta area, who was seeking to become governor.

Made the Negro question his principal issue and went all over the state delivering addresses that inflamed the passion of the whites against the Negroes. 

Yes, he did. 

He did an excellent job to bring about strained relations between the races. These are some of the [00:11:00] things that Dr. Holtzclaw had to witness in trying to build his school.

That's right. While building his school at Utica, Mr. Vardman tried to show that the education of the Negro was detrimental to the white man. He abolished the only normal school for Negroes in the state, claiming that the white people paid the taxes and that their money should not be spent to educate.

the Negros 

Oh, the Doc he was acted. He was acting like black folks didn't pay taxes. 

Absolutely. However, there was a large contingent of the best white people throughout the state who knew that he was wrong and did not hesitate to tell him so. It was indeed understood that education elevates all people. In spite of all the turmoil that was going on at this time, that Utica Institute.

Was established. [00:12:00] It is believed that it succeeded mainly because it had no politics. Of his own. Okay, let's go back to the Jubilee Singers at this time. Okay, who barely mentioned in chapter nine.

As a former director of the singers. Very quickly, I will share with you a little history of the group, and perhaps. At another occasion, we will go into details of the singers. Okay. However, this meeting is not only about the singers, but what happened in chapter nine. The first student group associated with the school was the Utica singers.

They were not known as the Jubilee Singers. Known since 1924 as the Utica. Jubilee Singers. That's when they [00:13:00] were known as the Jubilee Singers in 1924. 24, okay. On an effort to gain wider, friendly exposure to the school and help with fundraising, he probably wanted the group to be similar to the popular Fisk University Jubilee Singers and the Tuskegee Singers of his own school years.

Okay, that's what he was trying to do because you as you all know, Holtzclaw went to Tuskegee. Right. They had a group of Jubilee Singers. Okay. But the movement of the Jubilee Singers, of course, started at Fisk University. At the time, I'd like to talk about that, you know, what happened with that. The Utica group began as one quartet.

That's how I started. I started with one quartet, four young men. Huh. I had Ralph Russell from Champaign, Illinois, [00:14:00] John Jones from Champaign, Illinois. I had Ralph's brother from Champaign, Illinois, and I had Brown, a young man, who's last name was Brown. He was from Utica, Mississippi, with my first quartet.

And I got that idea somewhere, I guess I read the Black Man's Burden, where they started with a quartet. I wanted to be quite similar, you know, to them. And I played around with the idea a long time, you know, trying to bring the Utica Jubilee Singers back. I just played around with it. Didn't make it final until the 80s.

Can you believe that? Oh, no. The 80s, I made it final. I had a little group in the 80s. That's when we went out to sing. I can remember we went the Raymond campus. We went [00:15:00] there. They had some banquet and they asked us to sing and sang at that banquet.

And that was my first outing with the Utica Jubilee Singers. Okay. Well, this group began as one quartet that traveled around the Northeast giving recitals in churches and clubs. This was how it was at the beginning. They developed into a quintet, you know, they went from four to five, six ten to six, you know.

And of course I wasn't interested in numbers after I Got, you know, away from the quartet audition, and if you were good enough you were in a group, whether it was four or 24, you know, we did what we had to do. Right. Okay, the original group sang old plantation songs, but they came to be known as spirituals.

And again, I would like to [00:16:00] talk about the spirituals at another time to let you know how they developed, you know, the spirituals. We sang spiritual, but we did all genres of music. We just weren't interested in singing the spirituals. Right. You know, all kinds of music. There were usually two or three groups in the field at any given time.

That was group A, that was group B, and that was group C. 

This is holtzclaw's group, right? 

Holtzclaw's, huh. This is his group. One group sang only locally. We assumed that they weren't his best group. Then he had another group that went national. You know, so he kind of mixed them up, but he had three groups out at the same time.

And they seldom collected more than their traveling expenses. They didn't raise a lot of money to do that. Okay, but they made friends for the [00:17:00] school that proved invaluable. So, you know, it was good. In the mid twenties, they began to sing in churches and halls all over America. And in 27, they made their first trip to Europe.

The man who broadened the scope of the Utica Jus was Charles Hyne of Evansville, Indiana. Mm-Hmm. who in 1924 came, the group's manager and booking agent. He renamed the group the Utica Jubilee Singers and booked them in clubs and churches throughout the Northeast and Western United States. And I'd just like to say this for a few moments, he gained their admitters to United artists.

And in 27, He took the group on a European tour, they gained even more exposure at home by singing on radio programs on NBC station WJZ, you know, [00:18:00] that was really something back then. Oh yeah. We on that radio station. In 1931, Honey took the singer to Europe again. now, when I became the director of the group, I read all these things, where they, where they had gone, what they had done, you know, and we, we just kind of sang locally at first, and by being the choir director, you know, I've made trips to New York New Orleans, Atlanta, you know, and I met people while I was there who were interested in my group as a, as a result, we got a chance to sing all over. the United States. So we can say we were, we were all just as popular as the original Utica Jubilee singers, you know. I say amen to that. [00:19:00] Something that we really, really enjoyed.

And I don't know whether you've heard, but one of my former students uh, Darius? It's trying to do a recording. 

and he has sent me a schedule. We're getting together. We're going to do a recording. He has mapped it all out. And presently, we're trying to work on it to get this recording done. He really wants to do it, you know, while I'm still around, right, right. So we are going to do this recording. So we're out there doing a lot of things.

You know, we, we are always excited to hear about anything that the Jubilees are doing. Well, I'm excited about this project. 

Yeah, it's really going to be a very good project. It really is. And I'm, I'm also excited about it. And as soon as we get it together, we are going to be out there and we're going to do some things recordings and, and we'll get our name really out there.

Yeah. When people talk [00:20:00] about the Jubilee Singers, they think about Fisk, they think about Tuskegee. They don't think about the Utica Jubilee Singers, who were just as important as Tuskegee, so we're trying to put it out there. I'm going to end with this I don't know whether I've talked too long or what.

No sir, keep talking, I'm enjoying it. 

The group was formally established as an ambassador of goodwill. You know, and it brought all in the interest of Negro Education in Mississippi. The group continued this work for another decade. This is under the other administration. Mm-Hmm. . It was disbanded in the early 1900 and forties.

That's, I looked, I looked for that for a long time, but that's when they stopped singing in the 1900 and forties. And you know, I came to Utica in 1,972. 45 years on that campus, you know. [00:21:00] And that's when I brought the group back to life, you know, it was really one of the highlights of the campus.

Oh, yes, 

that's true. 

And that's what we the story that we're trying to tell. That's what we get out there and let the people see. So as I say, I'm contact you and Dan. Okay, we'll just see what's going on, what we're trying to do, you know, so we can do something, put it up there in your Institute to see what's going on with it, you know, so people when they come, they will add, you know, know that we're still alive, we're still trying to do something.

Here at my age, I'm not gonna give my age right 

now. That's 

all right. Here at my age. I'm still trying to do something with the Jubilee Singers and I, I would like to say that the young men are just so obedient to me. We're singing, I got an invitation to sing at such and such a place. They said, when and where [00:22:00] Doc??

That's right. And what are we going to wear? So I give them a call and without any expenses, they meet me. I know. Yeah, so I'm, I'm, I'm grateful for the Utica Jubilee Singers, you know. Okay. Well, you 

know, Doc, you, you, have taken those young men all over the country and outside the country as well, just like the originals.

You took them to Europe as well, did you not? 

Yes, we did. Yes, we did. We went with a lot of places, you know. Huh. It was a lot of, you know, important places that we sang, you know, and I have, you know, the literature to document that. Right. 

Didn't y'all sing at the Vatican? 

We did. We sang for the Pope. We sang at the Vatican for the Pope.

We had a wonderful time. We really did. Yeah. Okay. All right. Now I'm going to turn it over to you. 

You know, I always enjoy [00:23:00] talking with you and listening to you recount your time with the Jubilee Singers. And you know, some of them are some of my favorites. And I, really look forward to whenever you come and direct them because that's when they act right, as folks 

say.

When you call 

your, when you call your singers back together, they come, they show up and they show out. We are so excited, you know, in the, in the museum to have that exhibit on the jubilees and we have added virtual reality component. I didn't know if you knew about it, that we recorded when y'all came to Founders Day.

Okay. We recorded the concert in the. In the fine arts building and by the bell tower so that when people come to the museum, they can put on this virtual reality device and it looks like they're singing with the jubilees. All right. [00:24:00] 

Okay. I like that. Yeah. 

I want to thank you so much doc for coming on and telling us the story of the jubilees and recounting.

Some of the high points of chapter nine. It is always a pleasure. I cannot wait till I get to sit with you again and talk and to see you with your, with your boys. 

Very good. 

Well, doc, I'm so happy that you were able to come and share this information and sit down and speak with me. have a good rest of your day, doc. 

Okay. You too now.