Brenda Baker BMB chp 14
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[00:00:00] Jean Greene: We want to welcome to our podcast today Mrs. Brenda Cooper Jones. Mrs. Jones has worked on the Utica campus for many years. She worked first at the high school I think and and then she worked over on college side So I want her to come to us in her own way Tell us a little bit about who she was when she was on this campus.

She used to do such great programs. One of the things I remember she did was in her family class, she had a wedding every year that the students took part in. She was also really adamant about teaching the history of the Utica campus to our students. So, Ms. Brenda, what did you think of Chapter 8?

Thank you so much. 

[00:00:47] Brenda Baker: That was chapter 14. Good evening. 

[00:00:50] Jean Greene: Thank you. 

[00:00:51] Brenda Baker: And I'm glad to be here on this afternoon to be a part of the podcast for Hinds Community College Utica campus. I am Brenda [00:01:00] Cooper Baker Jones, as some of you might remember me as Mrs. Baker when I was on campus. And I was there for 26 years, and I retired in 2021.

And I am now teaching over in Faraday, Louisiana, at Concordia Education Center. And while at Utica, I did teach sociology, I taught marriage and family, and ethnic relations. And as Jean was just saying about the marriage and family class, we did, we had a wedding every year and that will be their final examination.

Everyone asked me, how did you get them to do that wedding? But that was actually their final exam grade. And in doing the wedding, the mock wedding with the marriage and family class while I was on the Utica campus, we had a lot of other departments. That was a part of that wedding, and it taught the other students as well how to plan a wedding, how to budget a wedding, and we use [00:02:00] culinary arts to do the reception.

So they learn how to do a wedding reception, how to budget, how much food they would need. So that was their part. We had cosmetology and barbering as well. They would do the bridal parties, hair. And the groomsmen, they would do their hair and we had clothing and textile as well. They would do the bridesmaids dresses.

for the wedding. And also we would have, the teachers on campus would serve as the mother and father of the grooms. And we had soloists as well, that was employees on the Utica campus. So it was a family oriented ordeal and everyone looked forward to doing it every year. And it was done the first week in April, I believe.

And everyone would be asking, when is the wedding? So, 

[00:02:53] Jean Greene: Yeah, and that's, a key thing that you were talking about that cooperation between [00:03:00] divisions and how it was more than just, your division, you incorporated, the people, the students from other areas. So it was beneficial to more than one group.

[00:03:12] Brenda Baker: It was it was just not marriage and families project. And, the other classes as well in the different departments look forward to helping as well. And teachers would ask me, Okay, now, when is the wedding so we can put it on our calendar? When Dr. Jackson was there, he even was excited about the wedding.

He was like, when you said a wedding, I did not know it would be this type or an ordeal. If you did do a full wedding and Dr.

Kessee, Dr. Keesee said when she saw the wedding, she was very shocked as well at the way that we did the wedding for that particular, examination for the final grade. And she was wondering as well, how did I get the kids to do it? And I told him that was their final grade for that particular [00:04:00] class.

[00:04:01] Jean Greene: What's so inspirational about you doing that, Ms. Brenda, is that you did, in practice, What Holtzclaw talked about and did in his time. You did in practice and showed us the kind of cooperation, the kind of excitement he tried to instill in his students and in his faculty. So you are a living example of what we read about in this book.

Really. 

[00:04:27] Brenda Baker: Okay, thank you. 

[00:04:28] Jean Greene: You are so welcome. So when we get though to chapter he's talking in this chapter about. The feeling of the people in the area about how folks were in fear. Of moving around with the, white folks in the area, and he talks to about when Dr.

Washington came. So I wondered if you could tell a little bit of what you drew from chapter 14 and [00:05:00] how we can relate that to today. 

[00:05:03] Brenda Baker: Okay, in chapter 14, he wanted to bring Booker T. Washington to the Utica campus, and they were in fear that if he was brought to the campus, that something would happen to him by People of other colors and religions or whatever.

And they were fearful to bring him. And he asked a lot of people, you know, their personal opinion. Did the, did they think it would be a great idea? And it was a lot of people that had negative responses and they was like, I don't think you should bring him because he might get hurt or whatever. And some people was like, well, are you going to protect him at all costs?

And. He was guaranteed that he would be protected if he accepted the invitation to come and he sent out flyers to announce that Booker T would be making his arrival. And when he did get to Utica, the marshals was beside him. And so was he to [00:06:00] make sure that he did not feel uncomfortable. But when he was trying to get him to come, they was asking questions, you know, he was like, well, what is your objection of him coming?

And they were saying that they really felt that he would be harmed if he came to visit the Utica campus. And if they, if they had an objection, what were the objections for him coming? And they was talking about, you know, race because of the different people in different cities and different powers may not want him to come.

And they was afraid of what he would say when he got. Here when he got there on the campus and would it spark something and would it cause riot or whatever. That's what's one of the Things that they was trying to figure out if he would come, what, would it be a good thing, you know what have you, but he did come [00:07:00] and you know, when he got here, he, it was a track, it was a train track and you at the time, and when he got there and they was like, there he is, there he is.

And it was like, no, that's not him. And when he got off the the train. He got off with no hesitation. He was not afraid or anything. He has supporters from all races. Everyone came out. They were really glad that he was was there. And when they accepted the invitation, they wanted the, the white people wanted him to do a separate 

[00:07:36] Jean Greene: Speech or something wasn't it?.

[00:07:37] Brenda Baker: Yeah. That nature with them, just them, but he didn't have time. So he didn't do that, but he was asked, he was given the invitation to be in their presence. So that is, you know, just, just like today when we're having something, we wonder sometimes, you know, depending on where it is and what it is, is it [00:08:00] just for, even today in 2024, you ask yourself the question, where am I allowed to go to this?

Because of, you know, what has happened in the, in the past. So you have to actually, you know, you ask yourself, am I welcome to come? That's just like even back when, you know, whites and blacks didn't visit the same churches back in the day, but now you have a mixed congregation. So, you know, we have come a long way from where we were at one point in time.

And mind you, this was, was way back in 19 1908 when this place. So we did have a, a lot of racism going on at the time. And the original plan was not to come to Utica though. He was wanting to go to. Yeah, he wanted to go to Mount Bayou, but they turned him down because of, so he was adamant about getting him to come to Utica.

[00:08:58] Jean Greene: Mm hmm. I, [00:09:00] I really, thank you for that that assessment. It, it was interesting when I was reading it that the black people were didn't want him to come, you know, cause he might get hurt. Right. And for some reason, it made me think of my feeling after Barack Obama was, coming down Pennsylvania Avenue and he got out of the car, he and Michelle got out of the car.

I've never been so scared for someone, but I didn't know in my life, you know, was he going to be heard? What was this going to mean for everybody? 

[00:09:31] Brenda Baker: So I can see, That was one of the things that I had compared to as well was President Obama about him being assassinated and, you know, as being the first black president of the United States.

[00:09:44] Jean Greene: Mm hmm. Mm 

[00:09:45] Brenda Baker: hmm. Yeah. 

[00:09:46] Jean Greene: That's true. So you've got this man, Booker T. Washington, coming to Utica, and at the time he was the preeminent voice. For black America. He was [00:10:00] the one that the politicians went to where everybody turned to. So if that voice had been snubbed. What could have happened? And then, what would that have meant for the people who lived in Utica?

Because they weren't that many years removed from that riot that happened in Clinton. 

[00:10:21] Brenda Baker: Right. 

[00:10:21] Jean Greene: So that's always on, on someone's mind, you know. Is this going to be safe? Is he going to say something that's going to upset the white folks? And the white folks were saying, Well, you know, as long as Booker does, you know, says what he needs to say.

[00:10:37] Brenda Baker: Right. 

[00:10:37] Jean Greene: So once he got there and started talking, then they realized he was really, more accommodating to them that they had thought. 

[00:10:47] Brenda Baker: Yes, it was a lot of, it was hundreds of people that was trying to get in to see him and there was not enough room. And they, and they did, they was really glad that he came to Utica to speak.

And after he [00:11:00] left Utica, other people wanted to wanted to see him as well and have a platform for him to speak at their colleges or, wherever they wanted churches as well. But he did, when he came, he's He came to Utica as a stranger, but when he left, he was not. He was very, you know, placid about coming.

He was not like he was this big person and you couldn't touch him or anything. He was real down to earth. So that was a good thing that when he was, he got here, he let them know that I would not hurt you or anything, as long as you don't hurt me, you know, that type deal. 

[00:11:34] Jean Greene: You know, when we think about it, Miss Brenda, we see what this man.

Holtzclaw had said he would put himself between Booker T. Washington and Danger. Exactly. Who gonna, I mean, you know, just saying that you would put yourself between someone else and Danger, that I would give my life to keep your [00:12:00] life safe. Today, we, we don't have people who will put themselves between somebody talking or push say, step, step up, speak up, speak for what we need to have on this campus, let's say..

If we know we need programs, who is going to speak up and step up and say that this is something I think that they could probably get? if they had any knowledge of who the man was that founded it. 

[00:12:32] Brenda Baker: That is correct because when when Holtzclaw found Utica, he came there with a vision. And now, my thing is this, the love for the school is not what it once was.

And you must have a backbone to stand up for Utica. And like you say, it Everyone is not going to stand up for Utica. And in today's time, I really would like to see more people that [00:13:00] are graduates. of Utica to hold positions there so that they could care about what is really going on down there and somebody that knows the history.

You can't function and do things like you want to do them if you don't know the history. That was one thing that I was really adamant about when I was teaching sociology. I gave tests on the black man's burden. They had to know all about that. They had to know the history of Utica. They had to know the black national anthem.

They had to know all of this and my classes. And this was some things that I thought was very important as to be on a Utica campus, a Utica Ode. You had to learn this and all in my, you know, in my classes. So in looking back at when he came and his vision. It's not what it used to be, you know, it's just like, I'm here to get a paycheck now and, and everybody that really knows the history, and if they know it, you want the people [00:14:00] that's there now probably won't listen, you know, because the younger generation really don't, they just don't listen and it's sad to say but it's the truth.

So, it's just a matter of if somebody is Is there and want to help you to carry on the legacy of the college of his dream. I just really think that you know you should listen so that it can be carried out. 

[00:14:22] Jean Greene: The thing about trying to inspire I tried to tell folks. I didn't know anything about Holtzclaw until I came to Utica in 2000..

I had no idea. And it was folks like you. and Gwen Strong and Ms. Turner all the folks who have been there forever and ever telling stories that, that made it come alive for me. And so once I understood, I mean, it took a minute, you know, I didn't just jump up at the first time somebody told me go, Oh, give me the black man's burden.

I must read it. No, but it was saying [00:15:00] that in the flesh with the people who were. Who worked here and who had gone to school here who lived in the community and who loved it that really made it come alive for for me and inspire me what we try to do now for new faculty is take them on a tour of the town and take them on a tour of the campus and give them a snippet of what it means to be.

In Utica, at Utica, a Uticanite, and for some, it sticks, but it's something that needs to be repeated. It's not a one and done. We have to do this over and over. So we're trying to do tours every semester for faculty, every semester for students. And when we have people who come to the museum, we give them the history, [00:16:00] but it's something that has to be done over and over and over.

Repetition, repetition, repetition. 

[00:16:06] Brenda Baker: You see, I taught orientation as well. And this is where I taught most of this information was in the orientation class. And I think all of this should be a requirement for the orientation class. So when they do have programs on the Utica campus. You know, they're just not something that's being thrown together.

You will understand why we're doing what we're doing. This is a legacy that was once done and we are continuing to do this so that you can learn, you know, how Utica was brought about and who who gave us the land to to have the school and all of that. 

[00:16:42] Jean Greene: Exactly, exactly. The other thing too, talking about.

learning about the history, not just for history's sake, because it's not, even though it happened in 1903 and 1908, it still has implications for us today, [00:17:00] because even though it feels like we are so removed from that, we still see vestiges of behaviors and attitudes today. And we can utilize the example of Holtzclaw, like you did. Like some others did. And it wasn't, and I'm looking at your class and everything from the outside, Ms.

Brenda, but it didn't seem like it was hard. 

[00:17:29] Brenda Baker: It was not hard. It was, it was more informative and you really got something out of it. It was enjoyable at the same time. And like I say, you would have to know the history. And I know you remember when the seal went missing out of the student union. 

[00:17:45] Jean Greene: Yes. 

[00:17:47] Brenda Baker: When the seal went missing.

I think I was the probably the only person that was concerned about that seal. And I was, I was telling Jean, I was like, we got to find the seal. The seal has to go back up in the [00:18:00] student union because it had the 1903 on there when Holtzclaw did all of this stuff. So that was very important to me as well, because that was a part of our history.

[00:18:11] Jean Greene: Did I tell you? I don't know if I told you or not. When we had Founders Day two years ago, two or three years ago I was exhausted from Founders Day. And I got back to the museum, and one of the guys in maintenance came by, and he said, Miss Jean, I need to talk to you, outside. And I was tired, I don't want to talk to him outside, so I fussed all the way to the door, fussed outside, and when I got out to his van, I saw the edge of that seal, and I went to my knees.

He had found that seal, that we thought they might have melted down for, to have that seal back. In the archives, we have tried to see if we could get it back up in the union. We're still [00:19:00] working on that, but the seal is not gone. Someone found it and had saved it. He said, is this what you've been looking for, Ms.

G? I was like, oh, I'm so sorry. I fussed at you all over here, but we did find it, Ms. Brown. We got it back. We got that back. We also found the cornerstone for the union. And that's back up. And Mr. Bell's information, Mr. Bell's information and J. Louis Stokes information is up and posted in the union.

The only thing that's not up yet is that seal. But we do have 

[00:19:35] Brenda Baker: where we're going to get the seal put up. 

[00:19:38] Jean Greene: Okay, excellent. Excellent. I'm not gonna try to keep you all day because I know you've got things to do. And I'm just so happy that you decided to share this time with me as as you did. I appreciate you agreeing to to do.

[00:19:53] Brenda Baker: I really enjoyed it. 

Well, so much. And I appreciate you and we'll see [00:20:00] you next time.