Zach Diamond  0:00  
Welcome to the modern classrooms project podcast each week we bring you discussions with educators on how they use blended, self paced and mastery based learning to better serve their students. We believe teachers learn best from each other, so this is our way of lifting up the voices of leaders and innovators in our community. This is the modern classrooms project podcast.

Toni Rose Deanon  0:28  
Hello and welcome to the modern classrooms project podcast. My name is Toni Rose Deanon, a designated hype person here at MCP. And y'all another pure magical moment for me. I have Kareem and Rob on the on the podcast with me today. And so welcome Kareem, welcome Rob. It's been such a long time, I feel like since we've been in the same space together to talk about all MCP right? So thank you for spending some time with me, making sure that you have time available to do this recording. And so let's jump right into it. What are some What have y'all been up to? What are some MCP updates for this upcoming year, like, what? What's been going on?

Kareem Farah  1:07  
Toni Rose, it's lovely to be here. First of all, I like still remember the the early days of creating the podcast. I haven't been on a while, and it is lovely to be here. Rob, I mean, I'm happy to jump in. But you can also start, what's your preference on, sort of this first question,

Rob Barnett  1:23  
I think, I think the last time Kareem and I were on this podcast together was the fall of 2020, so that's five years ago. That's crazy. How long this podcast has been going, and how, how, how many great episodes there have been cream. Go for it.

Kareem Farah  1:40  
Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, I think the biggest thing that's going down at modern classrooms right now, that I'm not sure everyone in our community is fully aware of, because it only actually is in service of a portion of folks, is that modern classrooms has really gone down the road of figuring out what it means to pair our model with curriculum. For years, we created a solution that we continue to scale today and are incredibly proud of that anyone across the country, let alone the world, can access. It's a methodology of teaching. Rob wrote a fabulous book about it. We have all of our courses, both free and paid, that equip educators with the skills they need to think differently about classroom instruction and one that's blended self paced and mastery based. But we also know that for a lot of folks, just figuring that out, with the resources in front of them, with the curriculum in front of them, is a super lofty task, and not one there they have the time or are willing to jump in and tackle near term. And it's totally understandable. Teachers are incredibly busy people. They have so many things going on in their lives, and you know to go down the road of creating instructional videos and building guided notes and mastery checks and progress trackers is just not something that every single teacher wants to try, and even if they want to try, is not necessarily something they can do. So this next iteration of our work has really been about figuring out what would it mean to actually build those resources for educators, not just the templates like we have in all of our courses, but actually the full suite of pre created, pre created resources. And we are starting with math. So we have partnered with two fabulous math curricula. One of them is illustrative Math, where we are using their open source resources to be able to do this, and then the other one is Eureka math squared, through our partnership with great minds, and what we're doing is we're taking those respective curricula and building all the necessary things that educators would need to deploy with our model, and then training and coaching educators on that. So I think that's the big kind of body of work that's new, like the marriage of the MCP model and curriculum, it's really interesting. We're excited about it, and some of what we build there might be useful to other educators, to see how we think about morphing a curriculum to our instructional approach. And then I think the second half of this, which rob you, can kind of dig in on more, is just trying to figure out the role of AI enabled technologies in our classrooms. What's the future role of educators? How do we make sure that educators the most important resource we have in schools and systems, how do we make sure their time is being used effectively and can enable AI to make that an even better experience? Rob, what would you add?

Rob Barnett  4:08  
Yeah, I mean, I think being now several years removed from the classroom, it's easy for me to forget how hard it is really to be a teacher and just the burden of not just teaching, but planning and all the other things teachers need to do. And I think the unifying thread here is figuring out, how do we make life easier for teachers? How do we make this model easier to implement? Because if this is easier for teachers, it's going to be easier for students to learn. Everyone's going to be happier, and it will just be more effective. So the curriculum piece is a huge part of that, giving teachers pre made resources, also helping them do that sort of cognitive work of adapting the curriculum to, you know, the model and vice versa. And then the other part, I think, is technology. We know that there's a lot of technology out there, and we want to make sure teachers use technology the most effective. Effective way possible. And so we're thinking about, what tools can we build that facilitate the type of instruction that we want to see for teachers and students? Not what do school districts want to buy or what's easy to make, but what really fits into instruction? And so we have some things that we're working on. You know, there will be more to come on these, because we're really beginning, but things like a digital Progress Tracker that is really easy to use. I know we've had a spreadsheet floating around for a while, and some teachers love it, but it's not that easy to use. So can we build an easier version of that? Can we build a tool that helps teachers assess mastery checks, or that assesses mastery checks using AI so teachers don't need to spend that time checking mastery checks in class, and students get immediate feedback. We're really trying to figure out, where can technology make life easier for teachers as well.

Toni Rose Deanon  5:52  
These are so great. And thank you for bringing up AI, and thank you for bringing up like, Hey, how are we going to continue to support our educators? Right? And one of the things that I really, really really love about modern classroom is that we're so responsive to our community's needs, right? So it's like, hey, we need this thing. Okay, we'll create this for you, so that it's seamless, so that there's not a lot of stress for you to implement our model as well. And so, you know, it's been a couple of years, I think, since we've had you both on the podcast. And so I'm really curious, like, what has been the highlight? Maybe, just like, one or two things that that stood out to you the past couple of years, when, when implementing the model and really supporting educators and school leaders and expanding as well to make sure that folks know about our model?

Rob Barnett  6:35  
Sure, yeah. I mean, just yesterday, I was in a classroom in Pennsylvania, fourth, fourth and fifth grade classrooms, and I see students who are engaged. I see teachers who are happy with this approach, and they're happy the way that they spend time in class and the way that their students are learning, and that is always the highlight. I mean, there's really, there's really nothing that is more satisfying than going to a teacher's classroom, seeing this in action, talking to the teacher afterwards, and particularly talking to the young people and hearing them say, you know, I like how to like math. Now, you know, this was a math classroom, and certainly there's a lot of students out there who don't like math, and so the fact that this model can help students like math, and, more importantly, feel confidence in themselves and their ability to learn, is is really gratifying. So, you know, I've been fortunate to go to a lot of classrooms over the past five years, not nearly as many as Kareem and others who are, you know, on the road almost every week, it seems like visiting classrooms, but that that never gets old. And I think as we make things even easier for teachers, I think we'll see, you know, even more sort of satisfied and confident teachers out there.

Kareem Farah  7:55  
I would say, for me, I think there's kind of two threats. One is, I think the durability of the model for teachers who started this journey five, seven years ago, and you still see them in schools and systems, and they've iterated and improved, but at the end of the day, like they're just running a modern classroom that they've optimized, and that's super cool. I mean, like, not that many things stick around for five years in that way, and certainly instructionally, I think it's pretty rare. So nothing gets me more fired up than a veteran teacher who's been in the system for an incredible amount of years, who understands teaching and learning really well, who's adapted their learning environment around our instructional approach and then stuck with it like that is that is just a level of of excitement for me, and like, belief in the power of the solution in a way that I can't replace any other way. So I think that I've seen that now so many times, and you can't see that without being around for a while, to be able to go back to the same systems and see the same people creating classroom level change like, that's super cool. I think the second thing is, when we came into the space in like, 2017 2018 you know, the broader landscape, I don't think fully understood how difficult the role of educating was like, I actually think there were, there was a lot of other reasons people would use to describe why student outcomes are not where we want them to be. And the broader sort of education environment needs a lot of improvement. And sure, those reasons are valid, but one reason that wasn't particularly loud was the teaching profession doesn't make any sense and is too hard. That was sort of a fringe perspective. It was a perspective that like folks like us would say, it was a perspective that other sort of advocacy groups might articulate, but it wasn't sort of a mainstream thing that, like teaching is a unbelievably difficult job, unconquerable task, and wildly under compensated. Having now been at this since, since launching the organization in 2018 that's radically. Changed. It is a common understanding amongst pretty much everyone I know, that's funders to school and district leaders to teachers to parents, that this job is too hard and needs to be made easier, and that that feels exciting to me. I mean, it's still in many, ways, too little too late, and it's exhausting that it has taken this long and maybe a pandemic and a bunch of technology and a bunch of other variables, but I'm not going to, you know, spend my time worrying about why it took so long. I'm just glad we're at a point in time in which educators out there should feel at least a little more heard that when they're hustling every day in classrooms trying to do something that's nearly impossible. Everyone around them is generally agrees that what they're doing is nearly impossible, and that's a step in the right direction, yeah.

Toni Rose Deanon  10:49  
And I've been really enjoying our community as well, just the amount of folks that are like, Oh, I've been with y'all since 2017 since 2018 and they're still so hyped and so excited and eager to continue implementing the model, and time and time again, too. I hear from school leaders that, yo, we have teachers who were going to quit, who were going to retire, and then they were like, Nope, we're actually going to chill for a minute. We want to be we want to still be in the classroom. We want to continue implementing the model, because it has just created this, like, more sustainable, less stressful kind of a job and so and with the math resources that we've created too, I've seen such a huge difference between like the VMP, right, like the virtual mentorship program and the math mentorship program as well, of like, hey, here are all the tools that you need already. Now we just really got to focus on letting go. And I think time and time again, Kareem, this, like, just continues to play, you know, just the fact of, like, teachers just gotta let go. They gotta let go. And it's, it's wild, because I heard this from you in 2018 2019 and it still continues to play a role in a lot of the educators that I get to see. Because again, I think, you know, there's a lot of, oh my gosh. I have to trust my students. I have to really, like, let them, let them free, like, let them go, let them be active participants into this. And it's, it's scary at first, and so that conversation still happens till this day,

Kareem Farah  12:13  
of course, of course. And gotta let them fail a little. That's the part that really sticks, yeah.

Toni Rose Deanon  12:18  
And another thing that I really appreciate too, is the fact that I am now learning to embrace and appreciate math, right? And like, I love being able to say, like, no, actually, cream and Rob are both math teachers, and it's kind of how I engage the comp in the conversation. Open up the conversations, and then I open up about my own complicated relationship with math and and understanding that, like, okay, the way that it was taught was probably pretty harmful for my own math education journey, but then to also be able to, like, expand my brain and learn a little bit more about math as well and how teachers are are utilizing different types of, you know, skills and bringing in pop culture as well with with what the students are utilizing with numbers, right? And so I know that you both are pretty excited as well about like, Hey, we're going to start with math, and let's see how we can, like, run with this. So again, thank you for that, because I know my relationship with math has gotten a lot better.

Rob Barnett  13:15  
That's my new greatest accomplishment of the past five years.

Toni Rose Deanon  13:18  
Yeah, and you did, like, you did a TED talk too, right? Rob, I think not recently, about the relationship with math like that.

Rob Barnett  13:26  
Complicated. Yeah, I gave a talk that was called why Americans hate math, and I think it has nothing to do with math. I think it just has to do with the way math makes people feel, and that comes from the way that math is taught, and that comes from the burdens, frankly, that are placed on educators, which is, you know, you've got to get through x content in X amount of time, and that means teachers rush ahead when they know their students don't get it. And it's just, it's just not good for anyone. I mean, it is really, it is really tragic. In fact, just to see what math does to young people, and Kareem and I taught 11th and 12th grade math, so we saw the end of that, and it was, you know, students, students had given up on themselves. And there's not much that is more depressing than young people giving up on themselves, and so, so, yeah, I think that it's a big problem with math. It's why we part of the reason we started with math. But I do want to, you know, emphasize to the non math teachers listening, this is starting with math. We think we can use curriculum with ELA, with science, you know, with any curriculum out there, we think we can help teachers, but we have to prove that we can do it well on a smaller scale first. And so that's why we're we're starting with math. But, you know, have hope, non math teachers, we know what you're going through as well, and we want to support you too, when we once we feel like we really know the best way to do that. 

Toni Rose Deanon  14:47  
Yeah, and it's so funny too, Rob, because I hear from like, science teachers and from social studies and English teachers are like, are y'all going to do the same? When is that going to happen? I'm like, Oh my gosh, yeah, we're going to get there at some point. And. We really want to focus on math and make sure we do it well, like you said, and it's also this productive struggle too, right, for both teachers and students. And so it's been really interesting having conversations, and how excited people are, who are not even in math, to be like, Oh, y'all are doing this. So that means that in the future, y'all are going to do this for us too. So and So with those with those teachers, are really focusing on the model itself, of like, How can I do self pacing really well? So that when I can look at resources, and when I can see those pre created resources already, then it would be really exciting for me, because then I can breathe a little bit, right? Okay, so this is the first episode for 2026 it's our, I believe it's like ninth or 10th season now of the podcast, which is so wild, and I I'm just, this is amazing, amazing, right? And so what do you two look forward to? What are you two looking forward to in 2026 just for this year, that's that there's a lot of changes that are happening, and there's also a lot of excitement that we're building up for as well.

Rob Barnett  16:01  
I can share one thing I'm excited about, which is, you know, since the beginning of modern classrooms, we've always recommended to teachers that they try various tech tools. And, you know, we've always had our critiques of these tools and do this, but this feature is not great, and you got to sort of make this work. Around here, in 2026 we're going to be building things that we give to teachers, and that's going to be a big challenge, because we're going to think they're great, and teachers are going to point out all the flaws and the mistakes and the things we didn't think of. But I'm just I'm excited to do that. Like to put something out there for teachers, in addition to the instructional model and the resources, like tools that teachers can really use, and excited to make those better, and excited to walk into the classroom where students are using them to learn more. I'm intimidated by that as well. This is a new sort of frontier for us. But, yeah, I can't wait to see it, because I think we're, I think we're building things that are going to be helpful,

Kareem Farah  17:06  
yeah, I mean, mine is sort of an extension of that, you know, AI exploded on the scene, and I think there's a, there is not A lot of clarity around what it means for classrooms, but things are changing so fast, which for a person as impatient as me, I kind of like this vibe. There's just like change all the time, and it's constantly stimulating. But what I do think is going to happen a little bit in 2016 is some of the like over hype is going to chill out, and we're going to start to get some clarity, both at modern classrooms and across the country, about what it means to leverage AI and the ways that we hope it can be impactful in classrooms, and also where is it really not moving the needle and arguably destructive. And I think right now, we're at an explosive moment filled with opinions and not a ton of clarity. And when that happens, I just always remember, like, teachers just have to sit at the end of that and be like, thanks everybody. Like, Job was already ridiculously complicated. I already have to make a million decisions at once. And now you just y'all like, sit in your rooms and play around with tools and talk about its impact. It was, like, incredibly annoying and rarely productive and ever, rarely, ever reached me. So my hope is that we're going to get out of this zone of just like, just like, pontificating about what AI can be, and actually get to a spot where, like, we have useful things, as Rob alluded to, that we may be building, but also that, like the broader landscape has clarity on like, it is really useful to have something that can get feedback to students faster. Kids don't get enough feedback in classrooms. There's just no that's to me, that's inarguable. Kids across the country, whether it be in math or other places they do work, and there's one adult that's a human being in the room, how are they possibly getting that much feedback? And AI, can suddenly get feedback to students much faster. So like, how do we get that going in the right ways that can be transformative? Alternatively, like, AI helping build lesson plans. I'm not sure. Like, I just don't actually know. I don't know how I would have done that, but maybe it's super useful, right? So like, trying to figure out where the value lives and where it doesn't. I'm super excited for because I think we all need to be eyes wide open that change is coming, and kind of our role now is to figure out, how do we actually kind of optimize for the right types of change? Because there's going to be some not so good change coming with AI, and I think we need to try to mitigate that.

Toni Rose Deanon  19:37  
And I think the beauty of AI too is that it they it still needs human eyes, right? Like, it's not something that we just like, put out there, copy and paste and then put it in front of students. Like teachers still need to look through whatever AI created to make sure that there's not a mistake. I mean, there's gonna be mistakes, right? There's nothing is perfect, and so that's why it's a push. Also, of like, AI is not the. Solution to all of our problems, right? It's still, we still need human eyes for everything that we create and put in front of our kids. 9% Yeah, so, okay, is there another, is there? Are there any questions that I didn't ask you, that you want to share, or anything that, yeah, anything that you all want to share before we get off this podcast, this episode.

Kareem Farah  20:23  
I mean, I always want to share with the folks that listen to this podcast how thankful we are of what they do. What has never been lost in modern classrooms is the fact that everything we create and do is ultimately built off of the things that we see educators do, and frequently they are then the people we pay to then create the resources. So in many ways, our math curriculum solution that we're now deploying stemmed from the fact that Rob and I were in classrooms like in DC, and we were like, they're teaching this curriculum with our model perfectly. Why don't we just create what they're doing for other teachers? Right? It was as simple as that. It was like there's a pathway here to make this easier for their peers, and it shouldn't be the responsibility of these two teachers to figure that out. So this has always been a movement. This has always been a community, and that should never change. And know that every single decision we make is rooted in the actual practices of educators. And every time we want to build and scale something. We are always going to lean on educators to do that that is now in the versions, in the versions that they currently exist today. It is teacher leaders helping train teachers, but it's also educators helping create content for us, because I would much rather have an existing educator build resources for us than anyone else that we could bring in. So the biggest thing I have to say is just thank you.

Rob Barnett  21:44  
I would share the question that I always try to ask teachers when I visit their classrooms or talk to them, which is, what can modern classrooms do better? You know, I have my ideas. I'm sure Tony rose you have yours, and cream has his, but we want to hear from teachers, or what we can be doing better, what we can offer. You know, how we can improve everything we're doing? And so I want to ask that question to everyone listening, and I want you to think about that question, what can we do better and then get in touch with us? You know, I don't know how you usually get in touch with modern classrooms, but you can always email info at modern classrooms.org and someone will read it and respond and pass it along. And yeah, I'm extremely proud of what we've accomplished and what we do, and I think we give teachers amazing resources, but I also realize there's so much we can be doing better, more we can create, clearer, we can explain. And so if you're listening, I really, I ask you to think what, what can this organization do better for you and your school and your classroom, and let us know. And maybe we won't be able to do it. You know, we're a small nonprofit organization, but we will try our best, because that's why we exist, is to serve teachers like you. So yeah, think about what we can do better and let us know.

Toni Rose Deanon  23:04  
Please. Thank you so much. It's that great reminder for teachers to be assertive, to advocate for their needs, right? Those are the those are the skills that we want our students to be doing too. And so teachers again, please let us know. And this is something I tell the teachers that I work with, too. If there's something, if there's a resource that you need, we probably already have it, y'all. And if we don't have it, if we have the capacity and the time, then we'll probably create it for you, because we know it'll probably impact not just you, but hundreds of teachers out there who are implementing the model. So thank you both for being here. It's so it's such a pleasure being in this space with you both. I feel like it's been a while. So thank you again for your time, and I'm so excited to see what MCP comes up with in 2026

Kareem Farah  23:46  
awesome Toni Rose, thanks for having us. Nice blast from the past.

Rob Barnett  23:50  
Thank thank you for this wonderful podcast. I'm honored to be on it again.

Zach Diamond  23:59  
Thank you so much for listening. Listeners, remember, you can always email us at podcast@modernclassrooms.org and you can find the links to topics and tools we discussed, as well as more info on this week's announcements and events in the show notes for this episode@podcast.modernclassrooms.org We'll have this episode's recap and transcript uploaded to the modern classrooms blog on Friday, so be sure to check there or check back in the show notes for this episode if you'd like to access those. And if you enjoy our podcast and it's been helpful in supporting you to create a blended, self paced, mastery based learning environment, we would love if you could leave a review that does help other folks find our podcast, and of course, you can always learn the essentials of our model if you want to go beyond the podcast through our free course at Learn dot modern classrooms.org and you can follow us on social media at modern class proj, that's P, R, O, J, we are so appreciative of all. All the hard work you do for students and schools, have a great week, and we'll be back next Sunday with another episode of the modern classrooms project podcast. You.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai