Zach Diamond 0:03 Welcome to the modern classrooms project podcast each week we bring you discussions with educators on how they use blended, self paced and mastery based learning to better serve their students. We believe teachers learn best from each other, so this is our way of lifting up the voices of leaders and innovators in our community. This is the modern classrooms project podcast. Hello and welcome to the modern classrooms project podcast. My name is Zach Diamond, and I'm a high school media production teacher in Washington, DC, where, of course, I'm a modern classrooms implementer. And today I'm joined by Steve schlarman, a biomedical science teacher at Fort Zumwalt North, and a dmce and modern classrooms mentor. And we have some special surprise guests too, but I'm going to let him introduce them in a moment. Welcome back to the podcast, Steve, it's great to have you back again. Steve Schlarman 0:54 It's great to be here. Zach, I'm really thrilled to be here, Zach Diamond 0:57 so am I, and this is one of those really awesome episodes where we get to hear from students currently in a modern classroom. Steve has graciously agreed to kind of take the reins on this episode, and has brought on two of his students, and we're going to get to hear from them and from you, Steve, all about the experience of being in your class. So I'm really excited for this one, and I'm going to go ahead and turn it over to you to introduce your students and get this thing going. Excellent. Steve Schlarman 1:26 We are from Fort Zumwalt on North in St Louis, Missouri, really, St Charles County, Missouri, a suburb of St Louis, and we're happy to be here to talk about the biomedical science program and the modern classrooms project implementation I've done with these students. I'd like to introduce you to two students. On the left there is Molly Helen, who I've had since she was a freshman in the program, as well as Ella Twillman on the right, who I've had as a sophomore for the program. They actually neither have me this year. They've been gracious enough to stay connected with me and continue to work with me as I continue the biomedical science program without their class. We had so many students sign up that we had to split it between two teachers, and they haven't had the other teacher, Molly and Ella. I would love for you to tell us a little bit about what made you join the biomedical science program in the first place? Ella Twillman 2:25 I initially joined because I was interested in being a pediatric doctor, and I had a lot of I think it was freshman orientation that I was going through, and I saw Mr. Schlarman with like a she part at a table, and I just thought it was so cool, and I was so interested in joining, just to be able to experience a classroom where it's just like it seemed like a very welcoming environment, and it just seemed like something I would really enjoy, and that it would be helpful to the career path that I was interested in. And so that's initially why I joined. Molly Helen 3:11 So I joined because I have a lot of nurses and just doctors and a bunch of other things in my family, and I've always been kind of fascinated from, like, the TV shows I've watched and all these other things like, I've just been very fascinated with just anything medical and anything, you know, sciency, if that makes sense, and joining biomed, I think I don't know, I really enjoyed Being in that classroom, and I feel like it just it made me more confident in what I like, what I wanted to be after high school, knowing that I want to go into nursing. And I feel like just within the first week of me being there, I was like, Yeah, this is what I want to do. Like I was set in my ways, like in that classroom already, Steve Schlarman 4:00 to give the listeners an idea of the kinds of things we do in the classroom, can you tell us about your favorite activity that you've done with me? Molly Helen 4:09 I think my favorite activity that we did was when we made the different neurons out of the pipe cleaners in HPs. We took like, there's a few, actually, like a few activities, but that one's probably my favorite one. We took, like, pipe cleaners and little, like, Pom Pom kind of things, and just made the different types of neurons and how they all connect with each other. And then the second activity, I feel like, was the skin tissue box that we made with the clay and the different different resources that we use to make the different layers of the skin. I feel like that was very fascinating. Steve Schlarman 4:51 Sounds to me like you like modeling the different things we learned about? Ella Twillman 4:55 Yes, yeah, my favorite was the skeleton that we worked on all year, just adding all of the parts of the body, like the heart and the lungs, and labeling all of it, getting all the regions, the terms, and just being able to, hands on, learn what parts of the body we were specifying in a unit. And I think just being able to visualize that, this is the heart. It goes between these bones. This is all the fatty areas around your body. I really enjoyed just being able to model that and to see it, it like right in front of me. Ella Twillman 5:40 Good. I'm glad you guys enjoyed those activities. Sometimes those are less fun activities for some students because they don't like seeing things the same way, but I'm glad you guys enjoyed that. So I wanted to take a moment and talk about why you two are here because you've been asked to take a part of this podcast, because my classroom is what they call a modern classroom, where learning is blended with the video and digital tools that we have. Sometimes we have the activities like you mentioned, outside of those videos, but sometimes we don't. But a major hallmark is that students have the autonomy to move at their own pace, and grades are going to be based on the mastery of the things as they go at that pace. And the idea is, is that students can learn different things at different paces, but they all can get to the same point as long as there's a structure that allows them to do so. So Ella, we'll start with you. What was the hardest part of being in a classroom like mine, where the information was given in a video, Ella Twillman 6:45 I think it was the most difficult part of it would probably be that maybe that everyone around me was at a different point of it, and so it was harder to do collaborative work, just depending on the activity, because not everyone was at the same part. Not everyone knew what each other was doing, but it was really helpful, because, if you like, would take a second. They would usually be there really, really quickly, and then it would make it easier to get through an assignment and to watch a video and to ask for clarification. Steve Schlarman 7:24 So it's almost like you had to stand on your own for a second, but as soon as the students caught up to you, you could work collaboratively with them again. Molly Helen 7:33 I would definitely agree with that, especially when we are assigned, like a video to watch and we're trying to work together. I agree like it's very hard to be on the same track with everybody else, but overall, yeah, I agree with Ella Steve Schlarman 7:50 and Molly. You had me as a freshman way back in the day. Now you're a junior. Did you ever feel intimidated by this structure where it was kind of on you to be responsible for how fast or slow you move through the curriculum. Molly Helen 8:04 I yeah, I do feel like if there was a lot of pressure, I know that I am one who is like, okay with a little bit of pressure, but coming in as a freshman and just jumping right into things was a little bit intimidating, but you kind of get the hang of it as you go forward. And just overall, it was a great experience. I really enjoyed it. Steve Schlarman 8:30 Ella, did you find that any time in my class was overwhelming or intimidating, like Molly, Ella Twillman 8:38 um, I think for a little bit to begin with, just because it was my second year doing the biomedical pathway of it, but it was just a little bit different of a structure and a routine than I had my first year. And so it made it a little intimidating, because I felt alone and like I wasn't going to be able to learn anything for the first maybe like week, but then after that, it was really easy to pick up on how things were just going to go for the rest of the school year, and how I could help myself through that, and how I knew that I could ask you for help through it too. Steve Schlarman 9:18 I'm glad you mentioned that I felt easy to pick up on the structure, but even then, the content of the class is pretty challenging, especially in specific units. So I want you guys to think about a time where you really struggled in my class. You fell behind or felt frustrated with the structure of the class. What do you think got you through those times? Was there anything specific that I did to help you get through it, or the structure the class allowed, like maybe my test retakes, or the retaking and the mastery checks? Was there anything that helped you during the hard times? Ella Twillman 9:57 I think, for me, the more difficult. Cool there. I think it was the unit about eyes that I thought was a little difficult, just because there's so many smaller things to it. And it was during, like January, February. So we had a lot of snow days and Ami days, and so it was hard to stay on top of all the work when I was just at home, and I was like, Oh, I don't have to do this right now. And so I usually did it, but it was really easy to get caught up after it, just because of the fact that all the resources stayed available throughout the entire time and that you were always on email or go guardian or some website that I could email you or message you to ask for help, and you're always available and willing to help. And then I think when we got to doing back into school or doing the mastery checks, I did really bad on them. And then I just kept asking for clarification, and then I got to retake it, and I did a lot better than I did the first time, which was really helpful for my grade too. Steve Schlarman 11:11 Do you think this structure allows me to be more one on one with you than I would if I had like a traditional lecture classroom? Ella Twillman 11:20 I think so, because I think that whenever you do how the structure of your class was, it's not that everybody has the same questions all the time. Obviously, there's going to be some times where a couple people will have the same question, and you can maybe, like, go over it and clarify it for those individuals, but usually it's different students needing different amounts of explanations. And so if there's a student on a more difficult assignment and then someone on an easier assignment, you can get a quick explanation for your easier assignment and also more in depth explanation for the more difficult assignment, which I think made it a lot easier to get through the class and get through the harder work that was assigned, and also the easier work. Steve Schlarman 12:10 Molly, how about you how what was the time that you struggled in that classroom and felt frustrated? Molly Helen 12:16 I definitely struggled with the kidneys I feel like that was definitely my weakest point in my time in your classroom, we didn't even have, like, any obstacles when, when it came to, like, winter breaks, or, you know, ami days, or anything, I just it was such a hard unit. There was a lot of information, jam packed. And I'm going to be honest, asking my peers didn't really help me because they didn't really know what we were doing. And I feel like having you know your help readily available, like for that unit, I just, I feel like that. Just, I don't know that was my hardest unit, and I'm very grateful that I was able to ask you so many questions. I know they were probably very redundant questions, and like you were probably tired of it, but I I'm very grateful for the help that I received during that unit. Though, Steve Schlarman 13:18 was there anything else about my class that allowed you to catch up when you were struggling to to make sure you knew the stuff before you moved on. Molly Helen 13:29 I think everything that you had posted on Canvas, like all of the assignments that we were doing, kind of like, along with the Progress Tracker, having that readily available through PLT, W and all of those things. I feel like that helped me a lot, because, like, some days I would be gone for like, some sort of family emergency or something else, and it was already there, so I didn't have to, like, send you an email and be like, Hey, what are we doing? Or come in whenever I'm ready to come back and be like, I don't know what I'm doing, what like, where are we at? So I I really, really enjoyed having like, PLT W and everything on canvas like that. I feel like that really, like helped me a lot. Steve Schlarman 14:13 That's good, because it takes a long time to put a whole unit together. I know that's something a lot of teachers struggle with, so I'm glad it helped you to have it all ready to go right away. I want to ask you guys something a little personal here. Has the structure of the modern classroom. My classroom in particular changed you as a learner has Do you think it made you a better learner, a better student? Ella Twillman 14:37 I would say so. I think I'm more on top of my work, because I have a better understanding of how it is my fault if I do, if I don't get something turned in, especially because I'm a big procrastinator, and so I'll push it off for as long as I can. But I think now I'm in more of a realization that it is, it's my grades that I'm. I'm just doing the work for these are my assignments. I'm not doing other people's work. I'm doing this for myself to be able to do, to be able to just be better in the class itself. And then I think it just carried through into other classes. Like, oh, I have an English essay that I have to do, but I should probably do it now, because I know that it'll put more strain on me to do it later, and I will just have a better outlook on how I view my classes, I guess. Molly, how about you? Molly Helen 15:37 I agree. I feel like not even just in the classroom, but for my everyday, like life skills or problems or anything, I kind of organize everything like I would in my biomed class, which is a little bit weird, honestly, because I'm not, I don't live in a biomedical like lifestyle, but I definitely organize things a lot better, like, of kind of what I should do first and what I should do second, and maybe, like, what I can push off like a little bit later. Or, you know, just kind of rearranging my entire like schedule, if that makes sense. Steve Schlarman 16:22 Has this made you, Molly, feel more capable and confident in yourself? Molly Helen 16:27 I think so. Yes, I'm definitely more confident whenever it comes to just knowing what I need to do next or kind of looking ahead at things like for different assignments, it's definitely made me feel a little bit more confident in myself. Steve Schlarman 16:45 Ella, do you feel proud of yourself for getting through my class? Ella Twillman 16:49 I do. I don't think I would have been able to do it without just the instructional help that I think I received, but I also was really anxious going into it, and I looked at it like, this is a class that I'm not going to be able to handle, and I'm just going to have to ask everybody for help. I'll have other I'll pay other people to do my assignments or something. But I think once I started getting into it, it was a lot easier to handle the assignments, and I understood what I was doing, and now looking back at it, I'm grateful that I got the opportunity to grow myself as a learner, and that I was able to get help from other people, and that I didn't have to waste my money paying people to do my assignments. Steve Schlarman 17:38 I can't believe kids still pay each other to do assignments at this point, I wanted to transition into the perspective of a teacher who's thinking about starting their own modern classroom, or is starting their own modern classroom, is maybe struggling to do so before I do. Zach, do you have any questions to add on and interventions here? No. Zach Diamond 18:02 I mean, this is fantastic. The only thing that occurred to me while you were saying Molly about how you don't live a biomedical lifestyle, I think that's very funny. But I also think, you know, the modern classrooms provides teachers with a model that kind of lives on top of the content, right? And I use modern classrooms. I used to teach music, and now I teach audio production, which is why I'm sitting in a sound booth at school. But these are sort of life skills, right, that transcend any particular content. There's modern classrooms happening in math classes, there's modern classrooms and history classes in Spanish, I once mentored a Latin teacher, and it's really great to hear you say that, right? Because obviously it's important to everybody here that you learn the biomedical content, but it's also important that as you become an adult, and even a young adult, that you have these life skills to prioritize your tasks, right? Figure out what you have to do next, keep yourself on track. Have not exactly a pacing guide or like, know what's on pace, but just to keep track of your time and know what's coming up. So these are all skills that you know modern classrooms are giving is, hopefully is giving you. And it sounds like you do feel that way. And I don't think it's strange that you don't happen to live a biomedical lifestyle, because it's really great that you're getting those skills from this class. But otherwise, I mean everything that you all are saying just sounds, like the relationships are huge here also. But I'm so happy to hear that you're getting so much out of this class. Steve Schlarman 19:26 I'm happy to hear it too. So Molly, let's say that there's a teacher out there who wants to try their hand at developing their class into a modern classroom. Maybe it's a math class, maybe it's a German class. Whatever it may be to have a class like mine takes a lot of work and a lot of patience, and they might be nervous to try it out for the first time because of how demanding it will be to set up a whole unit at a time and to record videos and to make meaning. Mastery checks that can help the students figure out their progress through it. Molly, what would you tell them about the student perspective of how appreciative it is to have all that stuff set up for you? Molly Helen 20:15 Um, I would definitely just like go on and on and on about how, like, how much I love modern classroom, honestly, um, I just know that i i would definitely benefit whether it's like a class of mine, or if it's a class like for anybody else, like wanting to join modern classroom, it's, I mean, I think it just keeps you organized. I think it keeps the teacher organized that way. You don't have to keep going back and forth trying to look for certain things. Or if, you know, say the teacher's gone for a day, your the student is still on track. They're still, you know, able to have those resources there for them and not be behind. Because sometimes, like, even a sub doesn't know what they're doing whenever they're given like, a note from the teacher, like, here's what they should do. It's a little bit easier on the substitute teacher to go and look at that, like, if the student knows, like, kind of where it's at, if that makes sense, because then it just keeps everyone in the know. It keeps everyone in line, keeps everyone organized, and no one's stressed out and like getting gray hairs because they don't know what they're doing. And it's just I, I would definitely just, I don't know. I would hope every teacher just does modern classroom. It's, it's, I love it. Steve Schlarman 21:39 It sounds to me like you think that the classroom, once it's set up, kind of runs itself. And I don't know if I can entirely disagree, Molly Helen 21:47 I just feel like it's very more smooth it's more smooth sailing whenever it's all set up from the get go, when you're starting a new unit or learning a new topic, it's you kind of have that already set up for you, and you know what to expect, instead of, like, starting something new that you're not too familiar with, or you know you're kind of struggling on something you're able to just not be surprised, you already know kind of, since it's being set up, if that makes sense, Steve Schlarman 22:24 especially if there's disruptions like assemblies and and drills and stuff like that, you still know the expectation going in. So nothing changes, even though the time is sort of lost. It doesn't feel like it has been Ella, what advice would you give to a teacher doing this for the first time about supporting students like you, who would struggle at first in a self paced classroom? Ella Twillman 22:52 I think just to be encouraging is a really helpful thing that teachers can do. I think if there was a teacher and I was like, I really don't know what I'm doing. Like, well, it's just because you don't know what you're doing, and I can't help you with that, that's really not gonna let a student get anywhere with that. I think having a teacher who, even if they don't completely know their way to guide through a modern classroom, I think if they could be encouraging, but also honest about it, I think just like if they were honest about not entirely knowing what they were doing, but trying for them to be doing their best is helpful for me to know that it's not just me struggling through it, trying to learn how to do this. It's both of us, but we can learn through it together. And I think that having a teacher that's willing to step to the side and just tell us, like go into depth about how to do something for a student is extremely helpful, especially a student who gets really anxious over little stuff. It's important to me to have teachers that are encouraging and helpful, even if they think they're being redundant or just not being very helpful in the long run, it's, I think it's extremely helpful. Steve Schlarman 24:24 I'm glad you said something about redundancy, because sometimes it does feel like, especially if you do this over and over throughout the day, it feels like I'm giving the same instruction over and over again, but I'd be doing that in traditional classroom. Anyways. Instead, I'm just giving you instruction on not only what to do for the assignment, but how to prepare as a new student in this program and in this setting so that you can be successful. So I'm glad you mentioned that, because it does, it really does feel redundant sometimes, because we've been doing this for so long, it's like, Duh, you just do this. No, it's, it's new for. You. So it should be redundant for us. I know that you guys have had teachers who have tried their hand at the modern classrooms project, and maybe they aren't doing it as well as me, just because I'm one of your favorite teachers all time, but I want to make sure that we can give tips to people that when they are struggling in the modern classrooms. Project, what specific things have you seen that teachers could change about what they've been doing in their modern classroom? Is there anything that a teacher who has been doing a modern classroom, but maybe not the best way that can help people get started with theirs or go through their struggles. Ella Twillman 25:50 I think that it's, I know it can be difficult for some teachers to allow students to pace the work by themselves, and it's hard to just trust them that they're going to do their assignments and that the teacher isn't going to get penalized for not teaching the students. But I think allowing students to pace it by themselves is really doing the opposite of penalizing the teacher. I feel like it's allowing the student to get a more in depth education and that they can really understand what they're doing. And I feel like that makes the teacher look better, even if that's not their intention, they're allowing students to go through and learn something how they'd like to and what would make it easiest for them. And I think that some teachers just have a hard time making it a self paced classroom instead of a traditional classroom, even if they're attempting to make it self paced it can be. I know some teachers have a difficult time allowing that to happen, and I feel like if more teachers were comfortable letting students be able to do it on their own, or if, I think also, if they were taught to be able to pace it by themselves, instead of in a traditional aspect of school, I think it would allow them to understand that the students are capable of doing it by themselves and pacing it themselves, instead of thinking they have to learn it through a strict routine when I feel like in all reality, it makes it harder on a lot of students. Zach Diamond 27:42 Yeah, Ella, I want to interrupt really quick, and Molly, I saw you were about to respond as well, but something that comes up a lot on this podcast, and I guess I'll just put a finer point on what you said. It's about giving up control from the teacher's perspective, right? And I like the way that you framed it. As you know, as teachers, we talk about giving up control because that's our perspective, but from your perspective as students, it's about trust. It's about trusting the students to complete their work in their own time. And I just wanted to say that because I really appreciate that you called that out, and it is important for teachers to be willing to trust their students to get their work done and then support them when they're struggling as well, right? But it's about control and it's about trust. And I think you made a really great point, Steve Schlarman 28:25 and I think that's the biggest hurdle for any teachers that start this program, is to learn how to trust the students with their own education at that point, the control is something that we hold on to for quite some time, and it's hard for us to be able to give that up when we're trying to figure out a way for students to be able to be at different spots in the unit all at the same time. So I'm glad you mentioned that, Molly, what other stuff has other teachers have been doing the modern classrooms not done as well as you would like. Molly Helen 29:03 I think I just have to agree with a lot of what Ella said. Definitely they I don't feel like most teachers are used to, you know, having like the student be self paced, if that makes sense. And I feel like it benefits the student a little bit more than it benefits the teacher, because the student, like, I feel like you're getting more information in because you're learning it yourself. You know the way that you can learn, you know the way that you're able to, kind of, you know, store information in your brain honestly, and to me, like, when I'm asking my teacher a question, even though it's self paced, I feel like to them, it makes it seem like I'm I really want to learn about this thing, not just like, just because it's self paced. Don't have to do it. Or I can, like, push it off because my teacher is not making me it kind of feels that way in a traditional classroom as well, because some students I feel like and I know this from experience as well, like just learning from a teacher, just standing up at the board, just lecturing us the entire hour, and then saying, Okay, hope you guys are ready. You know, that kind of thing I don't learn well. In that way. I enjoy being self paced, but I feel, I feel like some students, they just, I don't know. I feel like they need, not really, their hand to be held, if that makes sense, but they need kind of guidance. Whenever it comes to traditional or a modern classroom, both classrooms traditional and modern, they all have their faults, and they're just, I feel like they both are able to grow from the same things, but they're also able to kind of learn from each other. Steve Schlarman 31:02 I'm so glad you mentioned that, because time and time again, I have mentees come to me that that talk about their implementation of modern classrooms, how they they gave it a shot and they didn't fix all the problems that they saw in the classroom, whether it was students of behavior or time management or test scores not going up right away, and they weren't sure if they were implementing it correctly. But you said it there's there's not a perfect model for a classroom. The modern classrooms project does have its own faults, and you have to work with the model to see what parts benefit the students the most in your classroom. I mean, I, I wouldn't make for our class together the self pacing model for the entire semester at the same time, because that would overwhelm you guys. But the same time, you guys are are strong enough learners that I wouldn't have the self pacing model be for a week only and decide to test you every single week, and that would be extremely difficult for me to keep up with and extremely difficult for you guys to feel like you had ownership over the class itself. So there are things about the modern classroom that you have to adjust in order to have the variable set up in the way that you want it to almost like an experiment. It is challenging for us to understand how to make it happen the first time around. So I'm glad you said that. In fact, I'm going to be vulnerable for a second and allow you guys to give me some constructive criticism on my modern classroom model and my implementation. Think back when you had me last year, about my videos, my progress trackers, my mastery checks, my tests, everything besides the curriculum itself, there's nothing we can do about how hard the class was, but the structure of the class. Is there anything I could have done better to support you guys or to measure your success. Molly Helen 33:06 I honestly, I don't have anything negative to say, like now that I can think of right now, I enjoyed being in your classroom last year and freshman year. I I just really like the way that everything was set up, like I just don't have anything mean to say, honestly, like, there's, like, there's no critiques, honestly, in my opinion, Steve Schlarman 33:33 Ella, do you agree? I'm sure you don't agree, because there were times where you and I had, had struggled with some, almost, some conflict even about the implementation of my classroom. Ella Twillman 33:44 Um, I do think that it's a really good way to set up a classroom. I really enjoyed it. I don't think I have any like, specific things that's like, Oh, I wish you would have done this, or I wish you would have done this differently. I think it was more of just the difficulty of the unit, and there were some things that I felt I needed a different explanation, but I don't think I was communicating it completely how I should have or not asking for the right assignment. So it is on me as well, but it's I think I just have a hard time trusting myself also that I can get all my work done and that I don't need someone hounding me about not meeting due dates. Steve Schlarman 34:35 So there's nothing you guys could give me to do a little bit better of a job, not more. Mastery checks, less mastery checks, longer mastery checks, shorter mastery checks, longer units, shorter units. Which did you like prefer in my class? Molly Helen 34:50 I don't know. I feel like with each unit, it was kind of different, like, I know they're obviously like going to be different, like the material itself, but I feel like each. Each unit with the mastery checks and the length of them, they were all different. So it kind of gave us a little bit of a change of pace. Like one unit would be shorter, one unit would be longer, one unit would be kind of in the middle. Or it was just kind of, it was kind of like not inconsistent in, like, a negative way. It was kind of I just, I liked that each unit, the length and the difference, like of the mastery checks, was obviously different. I enjoyed that. I don't think you should change that at all. Steve Schlarman 35:40 So it sounds like you prefer that over, let's say a teacher who would set up their classroom to be self paced per quarter, and they would have a test at each quarter to assess the material, but they would have the students work towards their progress throughout the entire, let's say eight week interval. Would you, would you prefer every eight weeks and having it be more congruent? Or would you prefer it being three weeks, sometimes two weeks, some other times five weeks, some other times, stuff like that? Ella Twillman 36:14 I think for me, I would prefer having a varying length of units, I think it would be overwhelming for every eight weeks having to retain all of that information. Obviously, there's going to be some units that would be longer than the others, which aren't as enjoyable, but you have more practice and more ability, but it's all over the same thing, and I think doing it over such a spread out period of time, you're learning so many things. And I think what's difficult for me is retaining all the information from a unit into and after other units. So I think I can remember the important parts, but I think going into detail, I now cannot tell you half the things that are in your brain or in your kidney, but I do know the very important functions of them, if I think about it, but I think that having a varying length of units is very helpful for students to be able to learn more in depth, Steve Schlarman 37:27 I was gonna say. And the good news is that on your way to becoming a pediatric physician, you're going to learn that stuff over and over again anyways, so it doesn't matter if you remember it in your sophomore year high school or now in your junior year. I wanted to go ahead and shift the focus to student perspectives, but I'll let Zach jump in again. Zach, is there any other follow up questions you'd like to add? Zach Diamond 37:53 No, I have a question that I think will fit into this student perspective section. So come back to me. Come back to me. Excellent. Steve Schlarman 38:00 Let's say that there is a high school student like you guys once were entering a modern classroom for the first time, and they are feeling anxious because the responsibility of the education is now on their shoulders. What advice would you give them to be successful in a classroom like mine? Molly Helen 38:21 I would definitely tell them to stay organized and stay like on pace as much as they can. Sometimes, with it being self paced, you can be ahead of others, or you can be behind others. So it's good to kind of focus on what you're doing, but also make sure that you're not pushing things off, like, or pushing things to the side, or working too far ahead, because sometimes, when working ahead, you can get certain things wrong. And then whenever the teacher is like, you know, letting you know, hey, this is what we're doing. This is like, if you're on pace, this is where we're at if you're not, whatever. But sometimes you can, obviously, yes, get something wrong, but then you don't realize what you've done wrong until you get there, so then you're ending up having to redo a lot of things that was that you might have worked really hard on, or that you like you spent a lot of time on, or some sometimes you didn't spend that much time on it. So it doesn't really matter, but I feel like definitely staying on pace with your peers and with your teacher, and staying very organized, taking notes, having a big binder for all of your assignments, just making sure that you have everything you know right there ready for you jumping into the modern classroom. Hello. Steve Schlarman 39:53 Were there any specific study strategies or note taking strategies that you used in my classroom that could be helpful to do? Starting out, Ella Twillman 40:01 um, I know that I thrive with lots and lots of color, and so I think I had a pack of just about a billion different highlighters, and I would type out all of the all of the advice and, like, maybe a little stuff. But what was really helpful to me, I would type it all out, and then I would write it in pen, and then I would go through and I'd write it on note cards, and add as much color as I could. And every color would be like, I would make everything a different color so I like, my eyes would focus on it, and then I would just like, okay, anytime I see the word heart, I think of the color green, and I know that whenever I see the color red, I Think of oxygenated blood or blue, I think of deoxygenated blood, and I would make it the same color for everything. And anytime I would write it down, I would get that color out. And so that way I could tie it all together. And then towards the end of the unit, I would be like, Okay, this is everything that I learned about your aortic valves. And then I would write that all there, and then, with everything being the same color, with around that, I would be able to tie it all in for myself. Steve Schlarman 41:28 And so if you had advice about a student feeling really anxious about coming into my classroom for the first time, they've heard stories about how I run my classroom and how it it's all basically on you to complete the work. How would you quell their anxieties and make them feel like they will end up growing and learning how to become a better student from a class like mine? Molly Helen 41:58 I'm trying to think, I It's kind of hard to like give advice to someone who has different learning strategies, or, you know is, you know, like their brain is different than I like mine. I love modern classrooms. Some students don't love modern classroom, if they've experienced it, just because it might be a little bit hard. But I, I know that. I just tell everybody, like, if, like, I have a few freshman friends, and they were thinking about taking biomed, and I was like, if you take it, you're, you got to have Mr. S. Like, you have to have to have Mr. S, you're gonna love his classroom. It's so much fun. Like, it's, it's, it was easy for me, sort of, it was easy. So that's why I kind of just bragged everybody that I had Mr. S. Because, you know, your classroom was just, I loved the self paced, like, kind of aspect of it. And I just, I don't know, I feel like advice I would give for someone who's coming into it, like, just, obviously, I've said, be organized and everything, but I don't know. I really don't have anything else to say. Honestly, that's okay. Steve Schlarman 43:20 It sounds to me like you guys embraced my classroom quite a bit, which is not a very typical thing to do for a student. Not everyone is ready for a challenge like my classroom ready for not only the curriculum that we have in biomedical science, but also the intensity of learning how to become a completely new student. But you already mentioned the words together, you are more confident as a learner. You are more capable and able to become more determined. I bet you both feel more achieved overall in completing my class than you would in a traditional class. Zach, do you have any follow up questions? Zach Diamond 44:05 Yeah. So the student perspective question that I have for you all is, I just, I want to hear how you feel about instructional videos. I feel like in a modern classroom, we work really hard to kind of blend, in fact, it's called blended learning, to blend the use of video with you know, in person, very much like one on one, or full group or small group teaching, some of my students will still say things to me, like, you're supposed to be teaching me, right? What's your perspective on instructional videos as students, Ella Twillman 44:35 I personally really enjoy them. I think that it makes it easier to where, if I don't understand something, I can go back and replay it as many times as I want until I understand it, or I could replay it and then pinpoint what it is that I need help with specifically, and then it makes it easier, not only for me, to get the explanation that I. Need but for a teacher to know what I need to be explained in more depth. And I think that in some cases it's not as helpful, because I might feel like I already know what I'm doing, or that I just don't need extra explanation or that the video isn't helpful enough. But I think a lot of the time it was really helpful for me to be able to just go back as many times as I need to, to comprehend what I'm listening to and what I'm watching, and just be able to really understand what the video is trying to explain to me. Steve Schlarman 45:44 Let me ask another question. Be a little vulnerable here, traditionally, in a modern classroom, the teacher is meant to record all of the videos. And you guys know, I recorded some of mine, but I also used reputable sources like Crash Course, or the CDC, or who, or even St Louis University, and use some of their work and added in my questions, do you guys prefer when I record my own videos? Or do you prefer when they I use someone else's sources and add in my own flair? Molly Helen 46:20 Um, I honestly don't have a preference. I liked watching the videos where you were in them, kind of explaining things a little bit further. And I also really enjoyed whenever you would just put in, like, a crash course, like, for example, or, like, I think it's pronounced a Mayo Clinic kind of site or video to watch, because then, if it was a video where you're not kind of like guiding us, if that makes sense, like you're adding your own little flare, like you said, we're also kind of able to add our own kind of annotations to it, and our own little notes and different things. That's the same thing for the videos that you record yourself. So I definitely I enjoy those kinds of videos. Steve Schlarman 47:17 So I think that's even an ultimate piece of advice for a teacher who's thinking about starting a modern classroom that can't record all their own videos. It seems like that's still better than traditional classroom, is it not? Ella Twillman 47:31 Yes, I agree. Steve Schlarman 47:32 They're both nodding their heads. Zach Diamond 47:36 It's an audio podcast, but that's definitely that was a very strong Yes. I want to ask you two one last question before we before we before we finish up here, oftentimes on the podcast, and Mr. S was talking about this, it can be a it can be a really big lift for a teacher to develop a modern classroom. And oftentimes on the podcast, people will talk about how they approach that in a kind of a piecemeal way, by starting with just one element. So the elements of a modern classroom are the blended component, the videos, right, the self pacing, maybe the tracker or the structure for pacing, and then the mastery checks. And so I'm wondering if a teacher were to try building a modern classroom from scratch and starting with just one of those three, which would you suggest they start with, and why, Molly Helen 48:21 I think definitely starting off with the think you said blending learning is blended learning is what you said. So the videos, yes, the videos, I feel like that's definitely something I benefit from, and I feel like most kids benefit from because everybody's on their phones, everybody's on their Chromebooks, everybody's watching or listening to something. And I think going back on what Ella said, that you're able to kind of replay the video, or kind of go back on certain things that maybe you missed, or maybe you just want to make extra like notice or kind of relearn certain things. I definitely think that's something that they should implement first, just to kind of get the student prepared. If that makes sense, Zach Diamond 49:19 sure. Ella, what about you? Ella Twillman 49:21 I think implementing mastery checks is really helpful. I think it just allows the student to write down what they know and see if what they know is what they're supposed to know. I think that just being able to go through and get the feedback, and it's more like it doesn't impact your grade as much as an assignment does. But I don't know about anybody else, but I would feel guilty if I like, were to cheat on a mastery check, because it felt like a 10. Test. And so with an assignment, I wouldn't feel bad if I was like, Oh, I don't know what this means. I'm going to Google. What is this part of your body? And then, but for a mastery check, it's like, more, what do I know? Not? What do other people know? And I think it allowed me to reflect on myself and be like, Oh, well, I need to go back in and learn more about these assignments and what this was trying to teach me. And it also, I think it also allows the teacher to see what their students are struggling with the most, and see if they are able to go through and explain that in more depth for them. Zach Diamond 50:39 Yeah, awesome. That's awesome. It's funny because I would have said self pacing, and that's because, from my perspective as a teacher, having the tracker really helps me to know where all of my students are at, and they have only gotten to those points by passing mastery checks and learning content from the instructional videos. And so for me, it helps me to organize. You know myself and you know, know who I'm going to check in with in any particular class, but you know, I guess that just goes to show that there's no one right answer here. There's lots of there's lots of ways to roll it out. So thank you for answering and indulging my kind of a strange question at the end there. Excellent. Steve Schlarman 51:20 Yeah, I actually have one last question in terms of administration, because I know that some principals, when they hear about this modern classrooms project model, that they might be skeptical to allow teachers to to use this and to try something really new and really different for their students, they might worry that this model means that it sounds like less teaching is happening in the classroom, because I'm not standing up there spending the entire hour talking or leading or anything like that. Molly, what would you say to that kind of remark, where less teaching is happening in the modern classrooms. Do you agree with that, or do you feel like the modern classrooms has kind of allowed me to do something different, that still makes me a teacher, but not necessarily a traditional one. Molly Helen 52:13 I would disagree with the fact that the teachers aren't teaching. That's why they're here. Like this modern classroom is set up, obviously, for the student to again, be self paced, but the teacher is still there to help you. They're not here to just babysit you. You know, they're I feel like being in your class with it being self paced, I wouldn't have to wait on everybody else to kind of ask a question. If I had the question, I would go up and I would ask you, and you were still helping me, still kind of teaching me things that I wouldn't have known if I had just chat GPT did honestly, like I was getting more knowledge and more education from you being there, even though it was self paced, I feel like I was still learning as much, maybe a little bit less sometimes, but I still feel like I was still getting that education in the classroom. Steve Schlarman 53:20 And Ella, if you were in charge of a school, would you want more teachers teaching this way? Ella Twillman 53:27 I think so. I think I might have been skeptical about it before experiencing experiencing it for myself, but I think that now that I understand everything that it entails and how it can benefit the student, I think I would be very pro modern classroom, just because it's allowing students to get that education that they want, but in that they need, but in a way that can make it feel like there's less pressure on them to meet deadlines, because there is one hard deadline, but it's you still have a bunch of time to do all the other things that you have to get done, and it puts less strain on the student, and I think that it also allows the teacher to grow a deeper relationship with their students and allowed them to give students the opportunities to feel comfortable asking questions, because not everyone's at the same spot, so the student isn't going to sit there and wait for somebody else to ask a question they have, because it's really possible that another student has asked a question, but It was five days ago, and they're way past that other student, and I think that it just allows everyone to have a more positive learning experience. Steve Schlarman 54:50 I hope that other teachers are really hearing your guys' words and taking some inspiration from it, because it is a challenge to. Develop a classroom like this. But when I sit here and listen to you guys, it has has made it worth it, 100% and the good news is, is, if you guys have me again next year, it's still a modern classroom. Yes, love that. Well, Zach, that is all I've got. Zach Diamond 55:16 Thank you both so much for taking the the time out of your afternoon. I know, like, staying after school is a thing, so this was really fantastic. Like, we love hearing from students on this podcast. It's a podcast for teachers. So, you know, it's just, it's so important for us to get student voices on here and hear from you all, and hear how you know, how our model is impacting you and also how we can improve, frankly, right? Like, what we need to be focusing on the most. So thank you both so much for coming on and Mr. S Steve. Thank you so much for bringing them, and also for kind of taking the reins today and guiding this discussion. This was absolutely fantastic. Thank you all for coming on, Steve Schlarman 55:56 my pleasure. Molly Helen 55:58 Thank you Zach Diamond 56:03 MCP, thank you so much for listening. Listeners, remember, you can always email us at podcast@modernclassrooms.org and you can find the links to topics and tools we discussed, as well as more info on this week's announcements and events in the show notes for this episode at podcast.modernclassrooms.org we'll have this episode's recap and transcript uploaded to the modern classrooms blog on Friday, so be sure to check there or check back in the show notes for this episode if you'd like to access those. And if you enjoy our podcast and it's been helpful in supporting you to create a blended, self paced, mastery based learning environment, we would love if you could leave a review that does help other folks find our podcast. And of course, you can always learn the essentials of our model if you want to go beyond the podcast through our free course at Learn.modernclassrooms.org and you can follow us on social media @modernclassproj, that's P, R, O, J, we are so appreciative of all the hard work you do for students and schools. Have a great week, and we'll be back next Sunday with another episode of the modern classrooms project podcast. Transcribed by https://otter.ai