Zach Diamond  0:03  
Welcome to the modern classrooms project podcast. Each week, we bring you discussions with educators on how they use blended, self paced and mastery based learning to better serve their students. We believe teachers learn best from each other, so this is our way of lifting up the voices of leaders and innovators in our community. This is the modern classrooms project podcast. Hello and welcome to episode number 221 of the modern classrooms project podcast. My name is Zach Diamond, and I'm a high school media production teacher in Washington, DC, and, of course, a modern classrooms implementer, and today I am honored to be joined by modern classrooms project chief product officer and co founder, Rob Barnett, making his triumphant return to the podcast after I think, like 200 episodes. Welcome back, Rob. It's so great to have you back on the podcast. Thank you,

Rob Barnett  0:58  
Zach. I'm thrilled. I actually looked it up, and the last time I was on the podcast was episode 12 in November of 2020 It is incredible to see what the podcast has become, what you've done, all the amazing people we've had on the podcast over the past 200 plus episodes. Really, it's amazing, and I'm thrilled to be back. Yeah,

Zach Diamond  1:24  
thank Thank you. I'm thrilled to have you back, and it's clearly been too long that I appreciate that we do work really hard on the podcast, and we obviously appreciate all the listeners, because you all are the reason that we do it. And have to, of course, shout out Toni Rose, my intrepid co host, who does a tremendous amount of work booking guests and all the sort of stuff behind the scenes. So I really appreciate that, Rob, it's like my passion project. 

Rob Barnett  1:49  
I mean, it's amazing to me, because we've had, we've had 200 plus guests, and still, sometimes I suggest to Toni Rose, Hey, have you considered having this person on the podcast? And oftentimes Toni Rose will say, Yeah, but we've got a backlog of months. 

Zach Diamond  2:02  
That's right, we do. 

Rob Barnett  2:04  
There's so many interesting people in our community. I feel privileged to be a part of it, and I'm grateful to you and to Toni Rose for sharing voices with with our listeners.

Zach Diamond  2:13  
Yeah, well, I'm grateful for the opportunity. Thank you. And November of 2020, what a time the podcast was in its is we were talking about this before we started recording. Like, in its youngest days, we were like, wow, 10 episodes. What are we gonna do now? And this was yours. Was episode 12. I'll link it in the show notes, of course, for listeners to go back and get a taste of what we were talking about. Or, I guess that was actually you And Kareem. It was called MCP founders chat and get a taste of what you all were talking about in November of 2020. Quite a time. Today, we have a completely different topic. If listeners don't know, Rob has a book coming out on February 5, and that's our topic for tonight. And I have an advanced copy of some of it. I've read some of it. It's very good, and I'm really excited to talk about it, Rob, and I'm really enjoying reading it. So that's what we're going to be talking about today, Rob, I saw also that there is a chance for our listeners to win a copy of the book.

Rob Barnett  3:15  
Yes, absolutely. There's a there's a forum I've created. You can put it in the show notes. I hope anyone who listens will fill it out, and I'll gladly send a couple copies out to people who fill out the form. 

Zach Diamond  3:27  
Fantastic. We've got a giveaway. Sweet, so we'll put that in the show notes. And yeah, let's talk about this book. Actually, before we dive into talking about the book, let's catch up a little bit, and maybe even back up a little bit, because episode 12 is a long time ago. Why don't you tell us a little bit more about yourself first, before we start talking about the book, tell us about who you are. And you know, we always ask how you started your modern classrooms journey. But in your case, you kind of started the modern classrooms journey. So tell us a little bit about yourself and your backstory. Rob,

Rob Barnett  3:57  
well, Zach, actually, to learn my back story, I recommend you check out the book. No, I'm just, I'm just joking, of course, yes, it's it's been a long time. My modern classroom journey, although still invigorating and exciting. I was a high school math teacher in Washington, DC, not far from you. I was struggling immensely. I showed up to my classes, and I saw that some students were always there on time. They were ready to learn. They had grade level skills. Other students also showed up. They were excited to learn, but they had big gaps in their learning. It was difficult for them to stay on pace with what I was teaching, and some students weren't there at all. Chronic absenteeism is a huge issue. Now, it was a big problem for me back then, and I thought, how can I possibly teach a single lesson each day that is going to meet these learners, diverse needs? And eventually I realized I couldn't do it. I needed a different approach. And so over, you know. Course of a year or so, I tried out a bunch of different techniques. I started with a simple instructional video, I sort of built up from there to a more self paced lesson style, a self paced classroom. And you know, 10 years later, we now call that the modern classroom instructional model. So I certainly didn't set out to be sitting here today to write a book or to, you know, be part of this great nonprofit organization. I was a struggling teacher trying to find techniques that would work. And fortunately, I found something that worked for me. I met Kareem. We were eager to share it. And here we are.

Zach Diamond  5:42  
Here we are, yeah, yeah. And it has affected the classrooms, so many classrooms around the around the world, and mine in particular, I can tell you, you know, obviously podcast listeners have heard me like gush on about the modern classrooms model. I can't speak highly enough of this approach to teaching. It has completely revolutionized how I how I teach, and how I think about teaching, and I will obviously never go back to traditional teaching, even as I become more experienced as a modern classroom teacher and start to integrate a little bit more of what I used to do as well, and like, find ways to just improve overall. The modern classrooms model is still like the absolute bedrock of my of my teaching. And yeah, I can just sit here thanking you for this whole episode, because it kind of saved my career. But that's not what we're here for. So meet every learner's needs is the name of the book. And you can, you know, you can hear that theme coming across even in just the sort of broad strokes of the story that you tell about your about your experience in the classroom. Can you just give us, sort of, like, the overall broadest, you know, kind of like a log line for the book. What is this book about? And who is it for? 

Rob Barnett  7:03  
Yeah, great, great question. I call the book 10% memoir, 10% manifesto and 80% manual. I love that. So I want to, I want to tell my story and how I arrived at this model, a sort of longer version of the story I just told. And I think sometimes for it's easier to learn something through a story. Humans like stories. And I think if you can understand the challenges I faced and the solutions I found and some of the hurdles I encountered along the way, that might be a way, that a good way for you to understand the modern classroom model. So I wanted to tell the story the manifesto part is I wanted to share what I believe about education, which is that every learner deserves to be appropriately challenged and appropriately supported every day, and that our traditional model of instruction is not giving our young people what they need, and so I wanted to share that belief, but mostly what I wanted to do is make this approach as simple and as accessible as possible to teachers with the steps I took, the steps you took, the steps you know many of our listeners have taken just share not just what I did, but what I've learned from teachers like you who are doing things. You know, I could never have dreamed of when I was in the classroom. I've learned a lot over the past, you know, seven years since starting modern classrooms, and I thought the book would be a way to share the techniques that worked for me, and some of the insights I've learned from from teachers like you, from many of the guests who have been on the podcast, you know this is one place for any teacher to pick up the book, start reading, have strategies they can use right away, and also have something to work towards as they roll out their modern classroom. The last thing I'll say is that the main audience here is teachers. I wrote this as a Manual for Teachers, but it's also a book that I hope a teacher can give to their administrator and say, hey, I'm interested in modern classrooms. Here's what modern classrooms is about. Maybe it's a book for the Parent Teacher Association to read and say, Hey, we want to bring more responsive education to our community. Here's a technique. Maybe it's a book for policy makers to read. I mean, I want to make this model as accessible and simple as possible for as many people as are interested in learning about it.

Zach Diamond  9:39  
Yeah. And I think when you I really like the 10% memoir, 10% manifesto and 80% manual. That's a really great way to think about this book, which I think does a really good job integrating them, like it's not one and then the other, and then the other, it's it's all integrated and and I think that that, you know, the manifesto part, like you do a really good job. In the Book of kind of using your story, using the memoir to explain why this is so important, and then hooking me as the reader, even though I'm already obviously hooked on modern classrooms, to want the manual part. And I really like that. We're going to talk a little bit more later. I think about the structure of the book, but I like the way that the book, you know, you you sprinkle in Tips From Teachers. There's, I think you told me, there are 45 teacher tips throughout the book, so all that learning that you're doing like you're just putting it in there too. And I think that's awesome. And in each chapter, there's a section about your story. You really bring it all home. And I can, like, visualize your classroom, which, to be fair, I think I saw, so maybe I have an unfair advantage. But like, it's just as I'm reading the book, like I can, I can see it happening. And I think that that is something that is missing in a lot of of PD and a lot of teacher books that I've read the sort of like, imagine doing this in your own classroom. Here are examples of what it actually looks like. It's not like some abstract, general idea that's hard to wrap your mind around. The book does a really good job using those three sort of parts, the manual, manifesto and memoir, to to paint sort of a coherent picture of what modern classrooms could look like in a hypothetical music classroom, or, you know, an English classroom, or art or any classroom, even though you were a math teacher. And I think that the book just really succeeds at doing that. One thing I've really enjoyed about this book is you have these three students, and we kind of like follow their journey, right? David, Anna and Troy, and they sort of fall into the like typical archetypes of what you would imagine a successful student, and like a student who is somewhat behind in terms of her math grade level, and a student who's chronically absent. And like in each of the sections you talk about meeting the three different sets of needs, and I think that that's a really good way of making it very concrete. Can you talk a little bit more about that. Rob like, how these three students help to like, illustrate the need to meet each different students needs, of course.

Rob Barnett  12:09  
I mean, one thing I want everyone listening to understand is I didn't wake up one day and have this idea of this is how teaching should be fully formed. I was a teacher who was really struggling with my students. I would go home at the end of the day feeling like, Man, there were students today who just didn't learn anything. And so the techniques that I was using came from that struggle. Came from trying things out, seeing what worked. And that's that's the origin of this model. So I did want to tell that story, share the successes, share the struggles as well. When I think about this model, I think sometimes models of instruction feel kind of abstract. I really did want to think about like my actual students and my actual classroom, and put myself back in that position so I could write to teachers who are in that position every day. And I really thought about students that I had, and I can still picture and remember those students and what they needed and how they struggled and how they succeeded. And because I was thinking about those students, I thought I should share this with the readers. And, you know, I didn't want to identify any students, and some of them are kind of composites of many students. But in general, I think my students fell into a couple buckets. One is the bucket that I called David in the book. This is the student who's advanced, who really needs a challenge, who wants to be an engineer and is ready for, you know, give me the next problem. Give me the advanced problem. And oftentimes that student is really difficult for us as teachers to engage, because we have so many students struggling to catch up. It's like, how do we challenge that advanced student? And I always felt really bad, because I knew the Davids of my class were not well served by one lesson every day. They were bored, and honestly, they were some of my biggest behavior challenges. Because they were bored, they would just distract their friends. And frankly, I don't blame them. I wasn't challenging them. So I really wanted to think about, how did I help David, and if you're a teacher with advanced students, how do you keep those students challenged? The next bucket I called Anna. Anna is a student who is struggling. She has struggled in math for a long time. She has never been proficient at the end of the year in math, but she's been moved ahead anyways, as she gets older, and so she comes to my class lacking a lot of skills, and, more importantly, lacking self confidence. She's She's someone who feels she's not good at math. And you know, sadly, that's what. School has made her think so, a student like that is very capable, very intelligent, needs a little more support and needs some human encouragement too, to show her that if you apply yourself, it might take you a little longer because you have those gaps, but you can learn. You can succeed. And I think everyone listening to this podcast knows a student like David, knows a student like Anna, probably knows many like both. And then the third I called Troy. Troy is a student who just missed a lot of class. And students like Troy, I don't think we give them enough attention in the education world. You know, when you have a student who misses three days of class at a time and then they come back like, of course, they're not going to be prepared to engage in your lesson, right? They've missed out. And what I taught on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday was worthwhile. So how can I expect Troy to come in on Thursday and know what to do, and we could tell a student like Troy, hey, get the notes from a friend or stay after school. But that's not sufficient. You know, he might not be able to stay after school because his life is busy, and if you could learn by just getting the notes from a friend, there would be no purpose in going to school. So we really need to think about for students like Troy, how do we make sure we're supporting them too? And, you know, I had a lot of students like like Troy also, and this was before COVID, so now that's even more of a problem. And it just it helped me when I was thinking about how to explain this approach to get out of the abstract terminology and think, look, how did this help David? How did this help Anna? How did this help Troy? And only once I felt like I was doing right by David, Anna and Troy, did I feel successful as a teacher. So I think those are sort of the four characters of the book. And I think teachers will will recognize their own students in these archetypes

Zach Diamond  17:09  
completely. I did. I completely agree with that. And I think that those three students, you know, those three archetypes, really encapsulate what I was trying to say about how this book does such a good job of integrating the sort of story and the manifesto and the sort of what to do, specifically manual part of things, because as you read the book, or as you go through the book, these students come up as sort of like touchstones, right? Like, if you're talking about aspire to do's in terms of the modern classrooms model, specifically, you can say and now David, who's always striving for more and for more advanced content is able to do the Aspire to do's, while Anna is able to prioritize. And if you're talking about self pacing or blended learning, you can say, and now Troy, who's chronically absent, can catch up at home, or you can catch up without me having to do all of the work on the one day that he comes into class. Because the you know, I've basically cloned myself as a teacher, and he has access to it, and like the way that reading those those stories, and because those stories do resonate with me as a teacher, and I have students like all three of them, it just it really feels natural how the model does allow us to meet The needs of these three very different types of students, and then, by extension, our own students, right? Like my students at DCI, where I work, not your students at Eastern, you know? And that's one of the things that I've really enjoyed about this book, is when those three come up, it's kind of feel like I'm kind of like following them on a little journey into modern classrooms. And I enjoy reading about how the model allowed you to meet their needs, because, yeah, that story does resonate with me.

Rob Barnett  18:47  
It definitely was a journey for all of us to figure out how to have a classroom where each of these students could be appropriately challenged and appropriately supported. But I think once I sort of came to these practices that I call the modern classroom model and share in the book, life became a lot easier for all of us.

Zach Diamond  19:07  
Yeah, yeah, totally for the kids too, you know, especially I, I especially sort of sympathize or empathize with Anna, like, you know, you talk about, she puts her head down. She doesn't have the confidence to succeed in math and like that, to me, is very sad. And that's, it's something not Anna, like real students that do that. It makes me sad because we have failed them. And I say we as in, like all of education, right? Anna, specifically, in the book she's in, you know, 11th or 12th grade, and her her math, is at an eighth grade level. And there are kids like that. And this model, as you show with Anna, makes it accessible. And I think also David, like you talk about David, those kinds of kids, if they're not causing behavioral problems, if they're just bored. I still feel bad about that, like it's. Yeah, we're failing them too, and and this is why these three students, or these three archetypes, really did resonate with me. So I I'm gonna ask you a question that I think I know the answer to, and I have my own answer to, which is, if you would say that this book is for seasoned modern classrooms teachers or folks who are just getting started with modern classrooms, or maybe for both. And I personally, having read a lot of it, would say both. It's very accessible. I think it would benefit all teachers, and I agree, like administrators and even parents, to read it. It really reads as a testament to the power of the model. And you know, you mentioned, and I also mentioned these teacher tips that are throughout it to, like, contextualize MCP in all sorts of different classrooms, not just math, but I'd be curious to hear what you have to say, like, who, in terms of people who are familiar with modern classrooms and who aren't? Who do you think would most benefit from the book?

Rob Barnett  20:54  
I think it's for both. I think if you're an experienced modern classroom person, I hope you will read this and you'll feel, I think you'll learn something from it. I think you'll learn from the story behind the model, and I think you'll also learn from some of these teacher tips. You'll just see not just what I'm doing, but what educators all over the world are doing in different countries and grade levels, you know, similar to this podcast, which I think is so amazing in the diversity of perspectives, it highlights. So I think you'll get something from this, even if you are a modern classroom veteran. When I was writing the book, I really had someone new to this model in mind, and I was trying to think how to make this as accessible and simple as possible, so that I feel so that a reader feels when they when they put down the book. Okay, I know what to do. I know how it will benefit me, and I feel motivated to do this. And so I hope people who are curious about modern classrooms will find their way to the book. And if you are an experienced modern classroom educator, perhaps you can use the book as a tool to share what you're doing with your colleagues. You know. You can, you can recommend this book, or you can take, you can take it, you know, take a page and photocopy it and give it to your colleagues, you know, and say, Look, this is this is a strategy that works for you. At modern classrooms, we offer online courses. I think our online courses are great, but there are people who don't like online courses, and I think there's an extent to which a book can just give you a sort of deeper, more engaging experience than an online course can. And so I'm hopeful that this book will reach new audiences, different audiences, and and let people who don't yet know understand Zach, what you and I understand, which is that this approach really helps teachers and really helps young people. And that, above all, was my goal in writing it,

Zach Diamond  23:04  
yeah, yeah. And I will say, as a modern classrooms veteran, I got a lot from this book, even if it was just validation, you know, which, as a teacher, it's really great to be able to cheer you on in your story and feel like the same is happening for me. Like, I'm like, yes, yes. It really does work, you know, because in some ways, we're all in this together. You know, teaching is hard, and you do talk about that, right? Like the struggle, how teaching in a modern classroom is still hard, but, but reading the book to me was like, yes, yes. This is exactly how I feel. And it was, it was fun to read for that reason, but I did get a lot from the book in terms of sort of ways to think about modern classroom, the, I guess, the manifesto part of the book, right ways to frame the importance of modern classrooms and and also the teacher tips, which were really interesting because, you know, listeners to the podcast know that sometimes I will host with, like, teachers who are completely outside of my realm of experience in the classroom and and, you know, I learn a lot from them all the time. And I just love these little peeks into people's classrooms. And especially, you know, like elementary classrooms that I have no experience teaching elementary school, and it's it's really fun to see that kind of stuff. So absolutely, definitely a lot there for a veteran MCP teacher. 

Zach Diamond  24:32  
Hey there listeners. This is Zach just dropping in with some announcements and reminders for this week. The January session for our virtual mentorship program launches on january 27 and we have scholarship opportunities available for educators in the US and abroad. Many of the opportunities even include a cash stipend and state PD credits upon completion. So apply now to work with a personal mentor and to learn how to apply blended, self paced. And mastery based practices in your classroom, you can find more information and links to register in the show notes and to submit your application. We would love to learn with you in this new year. 

Zach Diamond  25:14  
So I want to talk about the framing that the book uses, talking about the model in terms of meeting learners needs, that is the title of the book, meet every learner's needs. There are lots of ways to frame the benefits of the model. You know, I'm thinking about, we've had lots of people on this podcast talking about lots and lots of different reasons why the model is so great, like teacher sustainability, focusing on mastery, a big one for me, has been focusing on building relationships with students. And I don't think anything in the book would refute any of that. All of it is valid. All of them are valid benefits of the model. You talk a lot in the book about your story and the way that you struggled to meet your learner's needs teaching traditionally, and given that this is sort of the very foundation upon which the model wound up being built. I'd like to hear you talk more about how and why, specifically, meeting your learners needs was the impetus that drove you to completely change your approach to teaching and eventually develop the model and form the, you know, the organization modern classrooms. 

Rob Barnett  26:16  
Yeah, that's, that's a great question, and something that at modern classrooms has always been challenging for us. Is defining what is the one kind of core benefit of a modern classroom, because there are so many benefits. In my opinion, it makes teaching more sustainable. It makes teaching more fun. You're using technology more effectively. It's more engaging for students, and narrowing it down to one sort of value proposition was was not easy. I think when I was putting myself back in the state of mind of myself as a struggling math teacher at Eastern high school, I tried to think what was I really trying to do every day that inspired me to teach like this? And in some way, it was probably just to get through the day, you know, not feel like a failure at the end of the day. That doesn't make for such an inspiring book title. But I think it really was like, you know, looking at my students, looking at the humans in front of me, and realizing these people need different things, and my job is to challenge each of them and support each of them. And the the way that, the way I think of that, is that different learners need different things, and the job of a teacher is to meet those needs as best as they can. And so that's, I think, why I settled on meet every learner's needs. I'll also share a bit of data here, which is that, as part of our mentorship program, we've asked for many years, people to rate their most important goal for the mentorship program. And we have a lot. We have a long menu of things people can choose. I want to earn graduate credit. I want to use technology more effectively. I want to lead change in my community. I want to feel more sustainable. And by far the most popular year in and year out has been, I want to meet my learners needs, and so this is on teachers minds. You know, this is what the teachers who come to us want, and I think this is language that resonates with teachers, because that's why we look if we want sustainable, easy jobs, we wouldn't become teachers. We become teachers because we want to help every young person succeed, and the way we do that is by figuring out what they need and providing it so based on my own feeling as a teacher, based on that data from modern classroom educators. I think the clearest statement of of what this book is about and what we as modern classroom educators aspire to do is to meet our learners needs.

Zach Diamond  29:14  
Yeah, yeah. And I think, like we talk so much about differentiation, it's a word that comes up so much in in the world of education, like in every possible context, differentiation comes up. And I think that you've really boiled that down to, you know, it's you can't it's not so simple, right? Like the reality of things is simple, and it's that our learners are at wildly different levels in a single class, right, let alone you know all of the students you know in all of your classes, or that you teach, or in the whole school or what have you. You know every single one of them is an individual human with different needs. And it's just, it's the way. That education is right now, they're all in with you together, and you are the one teacher, and you need to meet all of their needs. And I think that, like, that's really interesting to hear that other teachers are putting that as their, like, main motivation for doing the training. It does make sense. And I think, like, we all see it teachers who have been in the classroom for any amount of time, like we all see it, it's it's an obvious problem, right? And that's a really great, a really great way of putting it. And I do see why you would frame the book in that way. And I guess in in the same sense, frame the the model in that way too.

Rob Barnett  30:39  
The last thing I would say here is that, you know, the last time we spoke Zach in November 2020, my son had just been born. He was about six months old. Now he's four and a half. I have another son who's two and a half, like they're beginning school, and I'm thinking about, what do I want for them? And what I want is for them to go to classrooms where their teachers can meet their needs. If, one day they're having a bad day and they just need a little bit of, you know, TLC. That's what I want for them, if, if one of them becomes great in math and needs challenge in math, like that's what I want for them. If I could just distill what I want from my own children from their education, that's what I would say. And so that was certainly on my mind as I was writing the book. 

Zach Diamond  31:29  
Sure, 100% I have, I also have two kids, and they are so wildly different. The two of them, I mean, they're, you know, we're not concerned about one being significantly behind in grade level, but the difference is unbelievable. They come from the same household, same parents, same upbringing. They need very different things from their teachers. And that's that's a great point to think about. Every parent wants that for their kids. You know, I can't think of any parent who would be in favor of their teachers forcing them to do the exact same thing every day because it's the right thing for their education. I don't think anybody buys into that. And that's another, another really great point. I want to ask you just a little bit more specifically about the book, the way that you structured it. So it's sort of in these three sort of big parts, redesigning lessons, redesigning courses, and redesigning instruction, which clearly goes from sort of like the more specific to the more general and broad. Can you talk a little bit more about that structure, why you structured it that way, and what that allowed you to do in terms of writing the book?

Rob Barnett  32:36  
Absolutely, yeah. And I think modern classrooms is a bottom up movement. You know, we haven't come in and said, This is how the school system should be, and we are imposing it on teachers. It's one classroom at a time, one teacher at a time. And for me, coming up with this approach, it really was one lesson at a time. You know, the first thing I had to figure out as a teacher was not how should I run my classroom for this year? It was, how can I get through one day where every student is engaged, challenged and supported? And that was an easier problem to address because I was just trying to plan one really good lesson. And so I talk about, sort of my process for planning that modern classroom lesson. And it is, you know, the modern classroom model may be complex, but the process of planning a single lesson is much more simple. You need some way of digitizing your direct instruction, whether you record a video or you find one online. After students watch the video, they should practice ideally together so they can apply what they've learned. And then there's a mastery check. And while all this is going on, you kind of circulate the room and support your students. And it's really as simple as that, a video practice, mastery check, and I wanted to start with these small steps, because I think that is the foundation of everything else, right? You can't have a great modern classroom for a year, or have changed throughout your school until you know how to give a single good lesson. And so it starts with redesigning lessons. That's certainly how it started for me, and I think that's how it started for you. I mean, I remember Zach when we when we did the fellowship in 2019

Zach Diamond  34:28  
I actually, I've told this story before, but I visited you all at Eastern one day with the cohort that was going to wind up in that training in 2019 in the summer of 2019 I saw Kareem Progress Tracker on the board. That was a Friday, and I literally, that day, went back to school, and I still taught one more class that day, and I had made a tracker, like a sort of a proto tracker with I just like on the board, put a table and wrote everyone's name and put x's on the lessons that they had to do. But that was the first. Step for me, it was definitely starting small. And I'll also add, I know I interrupted you, and I'll let you continue in a second, but I'll also add that countless guests on the podcast have given that advice is to start small, right? Make a video first. Don't worry about, you know, all the other stuff. Start with a video. Start with a tracker, start with one piece, start small and then build up. That's definitely very common advice,

Rob Barnett  35:25  
yeah. And for me, this is a process that took months and months to figure out. Was like how to give you know how to give one lesson. I mean, I have a similar experience to you that I talk about in a book. I went to a Friday afternoon professional development where a teacher showed me Ed puzzle, how to take a video and put questions in. And I went home over the weekend. I didn't have kids yet, so I had my weekends, you know, to myself. I spent some time over the weekend, like learning it, and I was in class the next week with a video. I was so excited, but the video was only a small step. After that, I had to figure out, okay, what do students do next? And then how do I make sure they're understanding? And it took me months to figure out this kind of lesson structure. It was just, you know, try something new, figure out what works. I hope that, given the guidance that I have in the book and that modern classrooms has, you know, we can help other teachers go through that learning more quickly. But yeah, it is a it is a process that takes time. Part Two of the book is called redesigning courses, and that is, once you figure out how to give a good lesson, how do you put those lessons together in a coherent way that students can start moving at their own paces? So you know, David may finish two lessons in a day, and I may need three days to finish that first lesson. Troy may not get there until Friday. So how do you organize all of those lessons? How do you put them together? How do you create a coherent experience for your students? And how do you make sure that you know every student is hitting the key points of your course without getting super spread out. And so this is where I talk about things like the learning management system, progress tracking, you know, sort of your your routines and procedures that make your class work, even when students are doing different lessons at the same time. So you go from a single lesson to maybe a sequence of two or three lessons in a row, or one week at a time, but it's sort of that building up process from the lesson to the course, and that's that's part two of the book. And then part three is about redesigning instruction, and I think this is where it goes a little bit from manual into manifesto, but once you are doing your once you have your modern classroom up and running the way you want it to, how can you make a larger change to the way teaching and learning happens in your community? So that might mean getting your administrator on board. That might that means sharing what you doing with family members. That means empowering your colleagues, right? How can you share this with your colleagues? They're busy. They may not really understand this modern classroom thing, but they face the same challenges you do. How can you empower them? And then finally, if you're really, you know, motivated, how can you shape the larger conversation around education? That's what you and I and all the podcast guests, I think, are ultimately trying to do right? We're trying to shape the conversation about what young people need and how to provide it. So that's part three, and I think the idea is start with the lesson, once you have that, you know, make your course self paced, and then think about how you can share it. And that's exactly my story. I started with a lesson. I got my courses running the way I did. I shared with Kareem. I shared with you. You know, here I am on this podcast, sharing with our global community, so I wanted to tell my story, but also in a way that that makes possible to others to follow the same trajectory,

Zach Diamond  39:31  
yeah. And of course, the book is now something that we can also share with others, or it will be when it comes out, you know, and you mentioned that too. Sharing the book with administrators, I love that. Actually, it's a great idea. I happen to work in a school that's already like heavily modern classrooms, if I'd but we've spoken with so many teachers on the podcast who are the only ones in their school or even in their district, right? And you. Uh, I like that. You included this in the book because the model, it's not we're not being prescriptive. We're not saying, like you said, No one at modern classrooms is saying it has to be exactly this way. It's the approach to teaching, right? It's the the you know, if we all agree that we have to find a way to meet every learner's needs, which I think we do. I think everyone agrees with that. Well, here is a possible solution, right? You don't have to do it exactly like the book says. You don't have to do it exactly like the mentorship program says. Both of them, I think, are designed and written, in the case of the book, to accommodate wherever people are coming from. And so it is very shareable, and it is, it is a movement at this point, right? It's something that is changing classrooms around the world. And, you know, not to even mention the global community of teachers supporting each other within the world of modern classrooms, which is another incredible thing. And so, yeah, yeah, this has been great. Rob, thank you so much for talking us through this book. And I can't recommend the book highly enough. I'm in the third part. I haven't quite finished it yet, but very, very well written. Really resonates with me, very validating as a seasoned modern classrooms teacher. So thank you so much for joining me to talk about it. We always ask people what they hope to see in the future and what goals they have. And I feel like writing a book is a lot of people's like, long term goal, but you already did, what do you hope to see in the future? What goals you have now? Like, you just checked off, I think something from what everyone has on their bucket list, like, what's next? 

Rob Barnett  41:38  
Yeah, great. Great question. I mean, I think the goal became clear to me in writing the book, which is the goal is really for every student to be appropriately challenged and appropriately supported every day. And that's something that you know has been part of modern classrooms vision for a long time, but really resonates with me now that I have kids, and what do I hope when they go to school? And I hope that they are challenged, I hope they're supported, and I hope that for everyone else's kids too. And I think the book, I hope, is a step towards that, but I think there's a lot more work to be done too, beyond the book and thinking about, how else can modern classrooms support teachers? How can we perhaps support parents and administrators? You know, I don't look at the book as Mission accomplished. It's one resource of many, this podcast being another, all with the same goal in mind, which is every student appropriately challenged and appropriately supported every day. And so for me, having the book out means, okay, let me figure out the next thing that we can do to make instruction easier for teachers, more effective, for students, more enjoyable, for everyone involved. 

Zach Diamond  43:09  
Actually, I really like that. I like the way that you put that, because it's not like on to the next thing, right? It's the same goal. It's the same goal for all of it, and we just continue doing the work that work. You know, it never ends challenging students and pushing them in class. So I really appreciate the way that you frame that. So before we close out, Rob, tell us again, when this book comes out, how our listeners can get their hands on it, and also more about that giveaway. 

Rob Barnett  43:38  
Yeah, of course. I mean the book will come out on February 5, it will be available everywhere books are sold. But I hope my publisher isn't listening, because what I'll say is that there's also a lot for free that you can have out there. I think you know, if you're listening to this, modern classrooms as a nonprofit, is devoted to giving out resources for free. So there's all of modern classrooms resources. There's a website for the book, which has some more of the things featured in the book, and that will be in the show notes you can find that. So I would love if you read the book, but more importantly, I hope the book just serves as an entry point into the whole world of modern classrooms and the resources that we provide. In terms of the giveaway, there's a very short form you can fill out that Zach will put in the show notes. I will look through that form, I'll randomly select a few people, and you will get an email with a way to, you know, to order your free copy of the book. And to those of you who read the book, I really hope that you enjoy it and that it's meaningful to you. That was certainly my my goal in writing, it was to inform you, to inspire you and to help you succeed with each of your learners.

Zach Diamond  44:52  
Yeah, and it has certainly been meaningful and enjoyable to me. So highly recommended, Rob. This has been great. It's so great to catch up. With you again. Thank you so much for coming back on the podcast. 

Rob Barnett  45:03  
I'll see you in another four years. Zach, 

Zach Diamond  45:06  
No, it'll be sooner this time, it'll be sooner. This time we'll get you back sooner. Listeners, remember, you can always email us at podcast, at modern classrooms.org and you can find the show notes for this episode at podcast dot modern classrooms.org/ 221, and that's where you'll find the info for Rob's book and for the giveaway, we'll have this episodes recap and transcript uploaded to the modern classrooms blog on Friday. Oh, sorry, I moved that up myself without realizing it. Okay, we'll have this episode's recap and transcript uploaded to the modern classrooms blog on Friday, so be sure to check there or check back in the show notes for this episode if you'd like to access those. Also, we're asking our listeners to leave a review if this podcast has been helpful in supporting you to create a blended, self paced, mastery based learning environment that does help other folks find it. Thank you all so much for listening. Thank you, Rob. Have a great week, and we'll be back next Sunday. Thank you so much for listening. You can find links to topics and tools we discussed in our show notes for this episode, and remember, you can learn more about our work at www.modernclassrooms.org and you can learn the essentials of our model through our free course at learn.modernclassrooms.org you can follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. At modern class proj, that's P, R, O, J, we are so appreciative of all you do for students in schools. Have a great week, and we'll be back next Sunday with another episode of the modern classrooms project podcast.