Zach Diamond 0:02 Music. Welcome to the modern classrooms project podcast. Each week we bring you discussions with educators on how they use blended, self paced and mastery based learning to better serve their students. We believe teachers learn best from each other, so this is our way of lifting up the voices of leaders and innovators in our community. This is the modern classrooms project podcast. Toni Rose Deanon 0:28 Hello and welcome to the modern classrooms project podcast. My name is Toni Rose Deanon they them pronouns a designated hype person here at MCP, and I am joined today by a high school credit recovery team from the Department of alternative education in St Paul's public schools. Amy, Kara, Renee and Sierra. Welcome. Amy Kara Renee and Sierra, Amy Steele 0:52 welcome. Good morning. Kara Cisco 0:53 Good morning. Renee Swanson 0:54 Good morning. Sierra Burris 0:56 Good morning. Thanks for having us. Toni Rose Deanon 0:57 Yeah, it is so exciting to be in this space with you all. I am really I love it when we have multiple guests on the podcast, just because it creates a much more interesting energy. And then, of course, more brains in the room is always a good time, right? And so thank you again for saying yes to the podcast and also reaching out and saying like, Hey, we got this dope topic that we want to talk about that we haven't heard of. So thank you for doing that and advocating for yourself so that we can continue to empower you as educators and highlighting all the things that y'all are doing right and so before we get started, what is bringing you joy currently? And we can start out with Amy, Amy Steele 1:36 yeah, right now, Joy. I have excitement, so I've lived the administrative lens with this team, but I'm actually going to be teaching a credit recovery course coming up, starting next week. So just my excitement to, like, live this now from the teaching side and the teaching lens. Toni Rose Deanon 1:52 Oh, that's so exciting. How many students will you have? Amy Steele 1:55 I will be about 60 between a few different sections. So algebra two. So going back to my math roots a little bit. Toni Rose Deanon 2:02 Oh, that's so exciting. I know this is something that I'm also striving for, is to have at least one class so I can continue just being connected with other educators as well as students, right? So thank you for sharing that. Amy, and I guess congratulations and a huge celebration as well. Kara, what about you? Kara Cisco 2:18 Yeah, I am experiencing a lot of joy right now, because when we engage in credit recovery, we are fast and furious, but then we get a few short breaks during the year, and so I am taking advantage of this was a three and now is a four day weekend due to an extreme cold day in Minnesota. And instead, I loaded up my family, and we are currently taking a three day weekend in Las Vegas is bringing me joy. Toni Rose Deanon 2:46 Yeah, I see the background beautiful, by the way. So that's I'm sure you're loving the weather there much more than Minnesota. So thank you for sharing. Sierra? Sierra Burris 2:58 I'm actually going to go kind of the other way. Yesterday, what brought me a lot of happiness was that I actually went on a very long, like, six hour hike in the extreme cold. And so it was, it was challenging, but it was a lot of fun. Toni Rose Deanon 3:14 Well, and how many miles is that for? It to be six hours. Sierra Burris 3:18 So we went through a lot of snow, so, like, real heavy, like, to my knees. And so we ended up going about seven miles in that total amount of time. And unfortunately, at one point we were a little too close to, like, running water, and my foot definitely went right through the ice. Toni Rose Deanon 3:37 Holy cow. Funny story, I went hiking this past weekend as well, and we hiked two miles because my sister was like, I'm cold. I don't like this. And we're in South Georgia, or we're in Georgia, so we're in the south Sierra. So this is really funny to me. Sierra Burris 3:53 Yeah, I think the warmest it got during our hike was like negative seven, but we started at negative 14 degrees. Toni Rose Deanon 4:00 Holy cow, ithat is amazing. And I'm so glad that brought you joy, because that just brought me a lot of shivers, it's so cold. Renee, what about you? Renee Swanson 4:10 I'm going to stay with the weather theme, because we're Minnesotans, and that's what we talk about. We, as you can maybe see, with the exception of Kara, are all remote today. Well, Amy's in the office, because it is an extreme cold weather. There's no school, but what's and I was out this weekend skiing and enjoying the snow before it goes away. Because what's bringing me joy is amongst this extreme cold weather, when I'm out walking my dog, I'm hearing the birds starting to come back. There's more daylight. Our days are longer, and we have some 40 degrees in the forecast. So enjoying the winter weather while we have it, but very joyful that spring is around the corner. I think, Toni Rose Deanon 4:48 yes, okay, well, y'all are definitely keeping me cold. I am bundled up here in Georgia, so and I'm thinking, this is cold weather. Well, I'm glad that this. All worked out beautifully. So let's go ahead and get started. Tell us about who you are and how you started your MCP journey, or even just like your education journey, and we can start out with, I guess we'll start with Sierra, if you're okay with that. Sierra Burris 4:10 Yeah. So we were kind of a newer team as far as like district goes, and so when we came together, we had to kind of decide, like, how are we going to change up this credit recovery program? And so when our team was put together, we had a lot of different backgrounds, but we'd all have like, years teaching behind us. And I think a lot of us kind of felt like there were things from distance learning that actually worked really well for our students, that really needed to be implemented more. And so when I came into credit recovery, I had that background of doing a lot of co-taught classes. I had a lot of co-taught MLL courses. And I also had, like, students receiving special services and seniors who were trying to graduate, and there were a lot of different scaffolding, things that those students always needed, and they were kind of working at their own pace. They were kind of used to working at their own pace, from the distance learning too. So I felt that we needed to look for something that kind of worked with students lives, they're living their lives, and allowed them to get on track better, but still feel safe to be able to find that help and ask for that help, and also learn How to look for that help themselves. And I feel like MCP really helps them kind of learn how to do that. Renee Swanson 5:13 So my history before I've started with SVPs, St Paul Public Schools was I was in the charter world for about 12 years, 1213, years, and I was at the same school the whole time. And the students that I worked with, there were students who, for many reasons, were not able to be at school every day. So coming fresh out of like my teacher preparation programs and going into my very first classroom, I had a really different idea of what it was going to be versus what it became. And one thing I really learned working with students who have a high level of absenteeism for pretty justifiable reasons, is that the teacher pacing was a big barrier for them, and so I had to switch my curriculum design and the way I thought about bringing curriculum to students so that whenever they came to the classroom, whatever they got through to get themselves and their foot into the door of my science classroom, they I was I had something that they could do to get to keep moving. And so that was a mindset I had to I had to learn and teach myself. And then when I came to St Paul Public Schools and was able to start working on this credit recovery curriculum design, I felt that that was still needed, but I hadn't had a framework to base it off of and modern classroom project really gave a solid framework that I could, that I could use to develop the curriculum that was going to be delivered in an asynchronous, virtual setting, although we do have teachers who use it in a, you know, when they're actually in person with students. But it could kind of fill the gaps that that curriculum design philosophy could fill the gaps and cross both of those program designs, Kara Cisco 8:26 and I would echo what's been said and only add that in terms of like the massive pedagogical shift that it takes to design curriculum that can be asynchronous and self paced, so that it's equitable in terms of our students, in terms of access. We, I think that, you know, we were all engaged in the type in the work of like bringing our curriculum to distance learning during the pandemic. But what was, what was not captured or grasped maybe by a lot of us during the time, and I was actually working in like a tech support position in the previous district during COVID, was just what a massive, complicated pedagogical shift that is, and that it's not just a matter of taking existing curriculum and putting it online. There is a lot of intentionality behind making it psychologically safe for scholars, making it pedagogically sound and making making it make sense, if it has to be asynchronous and self paced, which is the most equitable way to present credit recovery curriculum. And MCP provided that framework for us in a huge way. We're so grateful for that. Amy Steele 9:35 And then my journey was a little bit different. I came across MCP three years ago, I was working with our online schools, specifically, a little bit more closely at the elementary level. We have an elementary, middle and high school, online school, of looking at coming off the pandemic, like, how did we want to design the school? It got started for a certain reason, but how did we want to maintain so working at. Part of the administrative team at that school. We I went through the MCP mentorship as an administrator, knowing that I had teachers going through that and working with them of how we wanted to structure our school day online for students. And then when an opportunity opened up on the credit recoveries team for high school, kind of getting back to my secondary High School roots, was very just happy to find that they had already been doing their own work with MCP. So it was a very nice like merging of my professional journey along the way. Toni Rose Deanon 10:32 Oh, this is so fascinating, since you all have such different backgrounds coming into the space, right? And this is something that I, as just a gen ed teacher, I've never even thought about, never even considered right, like, hey, how do we better serve? Or were there? I mean, I didn't even know that there were schools like that Renee, where you were, like, as a charter school, and we had a population with high absenteeism. And so we kind of knew walking in that we had to create a space where students feel brave and safe enough to show up because of all the things that are happening, right? I really love the fact that you talked about the teacher pacing was a barrier. And I think even in just a quote, unquote, regular school, right, that continues to be a barrier, because teachers are just continuing to go, go, go, there's a lot of pressure for teachers to follow the curriculum as is, right. And so I like that you noted that as well. And Sierra, you know, the whole piece of like getting students to feel safe, to feel brave enough to ask for that support, and then to also level it up and say advocating as well for their needs, not necessarily asking, but like advocating and saying, like, hey, I need this piece to be successful in whatever it is that you want us to do, right? And so and Cara, I love, love, love, this whole thing that you pointed out with, like, the massive, complicated pedagogical shift. And it's not just for like, students, right? It's specifically hard for teachers too. And it was wild to me that during COVID, it was just kind of like, all right, teachers, do your thing, we don't have support or, like, we're going to support you the way you need to. But there was no training, no professional development, or no, like, really clear guidelines. Because I think again, this was so new for a lot of people, right? And especially with technology and that, you know, going from in person to online, that's really difficult for all stakeholders involved. And so that was something that I also learned as a technology instructional coach during COVID of like, wow, my teachers needed a lot of hand holding, and for a while it was really frustrating for me, because I was like, Y'all are adults. We're all adults. I don't understand why you don't get this. And then I had to really, like, shut my mouth and my mind as well. Of like, No, we still also need to scaffold. We still need to take care of our teachers because they don't know how to do this. And then, as adults, we are also so scared to ask questions and be vulnerable enough to say, like, I don't get this and I don't know how to do it better for my students, right? And I love Amy that you said you've known about this for three years. You went through it as a school leader, and it was just kind of seamless for you to go from one place to another where MCP was already a part of the system. And so I love, I can't even imagine what an elementary online school would look like, but that's so fascinating that that is a choice. And of course, it should be a choice for students and families to have as an option, right? And so thank you all for sharing that. Y'all are definitely gonna expand my brain, because I don't know anything about what we're about to talk about. And so this is really great. And so you all work at like, alternative school, right? Like, what does that mean exactly for listeners who may have never heard of the term, or even just like people have heard of it, but still have, like, misconceptions or assumptions about what it could be. Tell us more about, you know, the extended programming and credit recovery, because we are talking about credit recovery, but again, right? Me, Oh, me. I have a lot of like, assumptions about alternative schools, and maybe even connotations that go along with alternative school as well, which is not and should not be the case. And so debunk all the things in my head, and I'm sure the listeners as well, and just tell us all about what y'all are doing exactly. Amy Steele 14:22 Sure I can start us off here. So we're a little bit unique in the sense of we are a department within St Paul Public Schools. So we work across 16 different high schools within our systems. We're about 33,000 students in St Paul So there's four of us here today with you, but actually there's nine of us total on the high school credit recovery team. So we work on developing and providing extended day learning, along with programs in summer for students who were not. Successful the first time they took a class, so meaning that they failed the class the first time, and so being able to provide instruction in different ways and modified ways to meet their needs so they can continue on their graduation pathway. So for us, that looks like in St Paul extended day or after school programming, which runs at the school level for about four week sessions, four weeks in a session, and students can take up to course, two courses at one time. And so what the team on this call provides in terms of their content area expertise is curriculum options for those teachers, because they have worked all day and then are saying yes to some to some additional time to work with our scholars after school, and also providing some ways of maybe how the standards weren't approached the first time, to get into a different type of learning mode For the students, and so there's also a bunch of teachers that are part of our team that come on after School and in the summer. So with that, we also have an option, as we're working towards equaling out or balancing our standards based grading practices in St Paul Public Schools, of really being able to drive to like, what is the exact standard or standards that a student needs to build upon that success? Like, where have they already had an opportunity to show mastery? And then where are the parts that they need to work a little bit more to show mastery on that standard and to earn that credit towards graduation? And so as we're kind of going through this journey in St Paul to get there between all the all of our different schools, we also have a program that's called fix it and finish it. So if a student ends a course between 40 and passing in St Paul is 60% so between 40 and 59% we have some targeted standards that a student can work towards to show that mastery. So instead of like, starting over and be like, You know what, you weren't successful, you know, you have to start back at zero. It's like looking at like, Where have you had success? And then how can we build upon that with some very like, targeted, specific standards? And so we call that fix it and finish it. While that's happening at our school level, sometimes we don't have enough teaching staff, or we don't have enough students to offer a section of a course. We never want to have to tell a student No. So we don't want to have to say sorry you didn't pass this class. You have to wait until the next term or in summer to take it. We always want to say yes to their learning needs. And so that's where then we also provide a district level option. So if the course isn't offered at the school level for the student, they can come to us and district wide, where the teachers on this call teach those classes too, with the curriculum and resources that they're developing, along with some others. And so it's always like, we want to say yes. And then we also then offer programming in summer. So we do about eight weeks altogether in summer of programming related to self paced mastery based credit recovery, and then also some experiences where students can get like hands on real life, so they might look on some physical science related to a welding class or construction related to mathematics. So we do a lot of different programming. That is a benefit of being from a larger district in the state of Minnesota, is that we can really kind of tailor and offer a variety of different levels of programming. So that's what this team does, is we kind of look at what are the core standards related to the class, and then how can we offer opportunities in different ways so students can be on their pathway for success and graduation. Toni Rose Deanon 18:54 This brings me so much joy just hearing about exactly what your team does, right? I do have some follow up questions, What are the hours for the after school sessions? And then, is the summers? Are the summers full day for the eight weeks, or is it specific times? What does that look like? And then also, are students opting in? Are they signing up? Are they being recommended by teachers? How does that work? Amy Steele 19:21 Sure. So for after school programming, our classes run about an hour each, usually two days a week. So we usually run like a Monday, Wednesday section or a Tuesday, Thursday section. And at the school level, they offer just one class. When it's district wide, we have two different time slots, back to back, and so students can take a combination of physically at their school, and it might be in person, it might be online, it might be a blended model at the district level. It's all online, but because of the work with this team here, along with our other colleagues that aren't on the call and the MCP philosophy, it's really about that self pacing. So a student even know a section might be four weeks long or longer, a student might finish in two and then we had that next course ready for them. If they want to keep engaging and keep working towards their goals, we have that next course ready or they might need longer. So we're doing some pilot work around trying to break down that barrier of the four weeks and kind of do a semester long rolling enrollment, credit recovery, and we had really great success the first half of the school year with that. So technically, our classes are about an hour long, but we have three different time slots after school that students can work towards things, but two classes at one time in the summer, we run for six hours, and so it's like a regular school day. Transportation is provided, breakfast and lunch is provided. So we pretty much run like a mini school district. So for credit recovery alone, in St Paul, we had over 3000 unique scholars and some form of credit recovery programming throughout summer, or combination of different types of programming. So we're pretty large in that sense. And but again, it's that self pacing students can work through. We do have in person online in the summer, but it's more like a typical school day in terms of timing of the day. And then there's one more question, and I don't remember what it was, Toni Rose Deanon 21:23 yeah, no, because I threw so many questions at you. For students, is it opt in? Is it highly recommended by teachers? Do they sign up? How does that work? Amy Steele 21:33 Yeah, so for Minnesota state statute, it has to be opt in. So we can't, we can't force a student to engage in after school or summer learning. But we work really closely with our counselors and our team of counselors at the school level, where we run the data from the when grades are posted like, we automatically run the data to see like, which students would qualify for like, a fix it or finish it section, they were close, but not quite there, versus like, what is some more historic credit loss, maybe from the previous year that they had some hardships and weren't as successful. So we work very closely with counselors, and we provide that data, and then a counselor can say, yes, please enroll them. Or let's pause, because maybe they they're working with a student. They know some other life events are happening, and it's just not the right time for the student yet. And then we also then have a student interest form, because there's some research out there that as soon as you engage the student, the more likely that they are to pass the course to. And so we originally started with kind of not quite an application, but kind of like, what course Do you want to take? But then we were finding the data from last year of what the student would say and what they actually needed on their transcript. There was some disconnects. So now we're just calling it an interest form where we share it with the student and say, like, Hey, I'm ready. I want to engage in credit recovery. But we we welcome all so we were ready. When the students are ready, we are here, here to go with them. Toni Rose Deanon 23:12 And it seems like you all did again, kind of that research, right? Of what works, how to engage students, and how to get them motivated and excited to get the credit recovery instead of saying you have to do this? Because I remember as a teacher doing summer school, and my students were mandated to go, and they were just like, No, I'm not doing nothing. I'm gonna put my head down. I'd rather be outside. I'd rather be doing anything and everything but this. And so that was really hard to engage students, and now you're saying that, like, no, actually, our students have a voice. They have lots of options. They have lots of choice. And also, you're talking to different adults in that and the child's life to see like, hey, is this the right time? Is this the time now? Because, again, right? We don't know the whole being. And so teaming up with other folks to gain that perspective is really important. And so it seems like you all are doing a lot of really great work. So thank you for this, and thank you for providing, again, this opportunity for for students and teachers right to reflect and to have a redo, the fix it, the fix it and finish it is such a beautiful concept, too, right? Of like, hey, you know what? It's okay, we can fix it. Like nobody is perfect here, options and opportunities for you all to fix it and just re and relearn, right? In a in a space where it's not, it's a lot less stressful, right? Because I can feel like with high school, you know, high schoolers, even just students in general, humans in general. When we're around people, right? There's a lot of barriers there. And so thank you again for naming that fact. So now you know, you say Amy like hey, we don't say no. We always want to say yes to students, even if there are a lot of there No, hardly any students who want to take this course. We still want to say yes. So my follow up question is, how do you all make sure that you're taking care of yourself as educators as well? Right? Because yes, we want to say yes all the time, and right, we also want to make sure that we're showing up the best way that we can for for our students. And so how anyone can answer this? How are you making sure that you're taking care of yourself when you're still saying yes? A lot of the times, Kara Cisco 25:20 I can speak a little bit to this and just in terms of how we as a team, like plan and collaborate and support each other, because a lot of that self care comes in the manner in which we support each other in constant improvement. We're creating something brand new in so many ways. And so what often happens is, you know, we're creating something brand new is like hiccups and failure and things that could be better. And so we have cultivated our own ways of supporting each other as a team that have been so effective, more so than I've ever experienced professionally before, and a lot of that So earlier, I had mentioned psychological safety as a massive benefit to the MCP model. I think pedagogically speaking, I mean, when I say psychological safety for scholars, I'm talking about, like, very predictable routines and procedures and the very clear like naming protocols for assignments, very obvious. What happens next, right? There's very little confusion. And I think that we kind of together as a team realize that that psychological safety that benefits scholars also benefits adults, and that really seems like something that should be extremely obvious, and why that necessarily hasn't occurred professionally, necessarily in my career prior to this really speaks to the fact that sometimes, I think in education, we don't, collectively, including myself, in this, take the best practices for scholars and apply them to the adult communities that we exist within. So what I mean? But we have, we have feedback cycles, for instance, where we have the opportunity to look at each other's curriculum and provide input on that we also have feedback cycles where we have the opportunity to meet with the teachers that support us within the St Paul Public Schools Network and get their feedback. But all of those are are improved by, again, the psychological safety of very clear procedures, predictability we leverage, for instance, feedback surveys within each other in our larger system all the time, but we have a protocol by which we use them so it doesn't feel like the wild west. It also doesn't feel unsafe. And I think all of those systems essentially taking what we've learned from MCP about predictability and psychological safety and applying it to our own team has really created a community of love and support that doesn't make what you've identified is a lot of work. It doesn't make it seem like that, because we're always able, we're always a safety net for each other, and we're always approaching our program and its immense needs with joy instead of chaos. Toni Rose Deanon 28:04 Oh, and I, you know, I always say, right? Like learning and doing things with community is just so much better than doing it by yourself, right? Even if that community just is you and another person, it's still so much better, and it feels so much safer when we have that thought partner, right? And you know you're talking about, okay? So when I shifted from middle school to adults, I was literally like, What in the world we are the worst. I hate us so much because we're so jaded, right? And I love that you said, Kara, that like we don't collectively as a whole, as human beings, as adults. Think about the things that work for our students actually work for adults too. And so I really had to, it took me a while to sit back and say, like, oh, the things that I do with my middle schoolers can actually work with adults. Like, duh, all of my skills are transferable. And just because we're adults, doesn't necessarily mean we don't need less of whatever it was that I was providing my middle school students, right? And so when I realized that shift, I was like, Oh, this is actually a lot of fun. We're not the worst. I was the worst at thinking we were the worst. And so just really figuring out again, like you said, right? Transparency is so important that's with any stakeholders, right? Predictability is really important. I remember being in school and just hating the surprise quizzes, not knowing where I was going, what I was doing for the unit that was so frustrating for me. As someone who was undiagnosed with ADHD, I understand now, like, why that was so frustrating for me, right? And so I really love again, this push for, like, a protocol. It doesn't necessarily mean that we're gonna be strict with the protocol, right? But, like, we just know that there is we're aligned on the things that we want, and we are on the same page as to how we're going to approach different situations, especially this feedback cycles, right? Like adults can be really hesitant. Or resistant when it comes to feedback. And so making this part of your routine right, part of the space that you're creating is just really beautiful, because we do want feedback. We're not perfect. We want to be able to provide feedback, to receive feedback, and then make it better for everyone involved. And so thank you for sharing that. And I think, again, right? It's a lot less stressful on our on ourselves, and I think it's less energy when we're supporting each other, when we're transparent and predictable. I think, like, the psychological safety, right? Because, like, I think a lot of the times it takes up so much time and energy, and we're exhausted by the end of the day, and that's like, that's a that's a common thing and an accepted thing in education, which I think is so wild, and so really being able to shift that is nice. And so there's, there's nine of you working together, right? I'm always curious about the dynamic of nine people working together. How do you all support, you know, plan, collaborate, and then also handle maybe some disagreements or things that you don't sometimes align with. How does that work for y'all Amy Steele 31:08 so I was one of one of the newer members, because the three individuals on this call, along with the person who writes our math curriculum, they had already been working together for over a year, and then I was able to join them and join the work. So I think with us, in terms of, like, grounding who we are in St Paul, the why with our students, we talk about that, and then, like, for us as a team, even right before this call today, we had our our weekly team meeting. And so we do inclusion activities to continue to to build and get to know one another in different capacities, and then also really talk through things like, what's our what are our immediate needs? What's What are future topics that we need to talk about? What are data digs? What are the times for these feedback cycles within the team with with gathering feedback from students too, and and educators that lean into our curriculum, because we weren't seeing the results when we had purchased some curriculum from outside of Saint Paul, our students weren't seen in that and so this was a, this was a big ask of this team, knowing it was going to Be a multi year journey of being able to write our own curriculum for credit recovery, be able to teach it ourselves, and also bring on other teachers within St Paul Public Schools to lean into it. And so, you know, it's right, there are tough times. There are times where we tried something the team was so gracious around, like trying to go beyond the four week schedules this year, and it was intense, because they were still balancing their curriculum and doing more of the instructional side too, but then having those conversations about what's working what's not working, and really being open with each other. But I think it comes down to the relationships, and Cara was talking about those relationships that we have, and have spent time investing in each other in those ways. And so when it gets tough, we can have those hard conversations with each other and bring those in and work on like, what do we need to support differently? What do we need to modify along the way, and Speaker 1 33:21 then even after, like, with working with like that bigger kind of like scope, with all of our nine different major high schools that we have, and I'm just working with so many different students, what is unique About like our position is that we're able to dive into all of these experts and this data and this information that's like right at our fingertips that maybe a teacher who's teaching all day long may not have. And so we work with our Office of Teaching and Learning, which develops curriculum or scope and sequence the standards for all of our high schools, and so we have very close connections with those leaders in that area, and then also the teachers that work with them to develop the curriculum for the high schools. And so what's great about us writing our own curriculum rather than having something that might be purchased is that we can change it, and we can go through cycles where it's not just between us that we're giving feedback, but like any teacher who is working in our content area and like asks or wants to teach for like an after school program, they'll also give us that feedback, and it didn't start out super nice. Sometimes, you know, there's a there's that stereotype where, like, you're making up a credit, or you're, you know, going to summer school and like that content just, you know, just to get them that that credit as fast as possible. And. We don't believe that we definitely want students to keep learning and to show that they can do because they can do, and being able to get that feedback from teachers, we've actually gotten a lot of teacher trust with the stuff that we've put out, and gotten a lot of feedback from students as well. And I think that by doing so, it's gained, it's allowed students just to feel like more empowered and the same with teachers in their own day school programs as well. Toni Rose Deanon 35:35 Yeah, I was gonna say too there does it does seem like there's a lot of empowerment here, which is what we want. And so I do want to say that I'm hearing a lot of intentionality here, right, with the planning, with the collaborating. And again, I just want to highlight the fact that y'all are really collaborating with others, like, right? Like you're not just in your space and that's it, but you just talked about collaborating with your Office of Teaching and Learning, right? Looking at the curriculum and the standards. And I love that, because I know sometimes really get into our own little like circle and our square, and then that we just stay there, right? But y'all, I feel like are doing so much work with just intentionality and seeing everything is a whole big picture, like a whole picture, right? And I think that that's kind of what makes this really beautiful too, that there are so many of you and your team that you're able to have conversations and see those different perspectives as well. And I really love this concept too, of like buying curriculum versus writing curriculum. I have lots of feelings about the buying curriculum piece because I don't think it's as personalized, right? It's not relevant. And you all are saying like, we know our students, we bought curriculum. It didn't work because our students couldn't see themselves in the things that they were learning. And so you know what? As a team, we're going to create curriculum that actually matters to our students, to our demographic, to our to our like folks, that we're serving both our teachers and our students. And I love that. And so my follow up question now is, like, you know, you've gained your teacher trust. You have student feedback as well. You've empowered again, teachers and students. And so now are they? Have you had some teachers say, like, you know what? Actually want to use this curriculum as opposed to what I'm doing in my classroom. Has that ever happened to y'all, Renee Swanson 37:25 yes, yes, but yes and yes, but like for myself with I'll speak specifically to science, we just adopted new curriculum. We have new standards, state standards, and so what's been really nice is this opportunity, as we've adopted new curriculum for the district, and there's been all sorts of trainings, and I get to be involved in that. It's not even really like, Can I use your curriculum, although those questions have been asked, and it's not even the curriculum because I'm writing based off of the curriculum that they're also teaching in the classroom, more just like the self pacing aspect of the curriculum design that that credit recovery has, or that my the credit recovery courses I'm writing have, what's nice is it feels much more collaborative with the teachers in in the curriculum that is going out to the students in credit recovery. So I might be in a training with the teachers, and their question might be like, how did you write this for credit recovery, or how, you know, the teachers who are teaching the credit recovery courses may be teaching the class during the day, and then they are teaching for us at night or during the summer school, and they can see the curriculum that they've been teaching reflected in in what the students are doing. And then they can kind of enhance, you know, as needed. So it's, it's not necessarily like, can I take it and have it for me the way that I'm using it? It feels much more collaborative. And how can I design credit recovery that supports you and supports your students if they haven't been successful in it the first time around for reasons that you know, I know are probably related to chronic absenteeism or out of the day teachers control for for the most part, Toni Rose Deanon 39:03 yeah. And I, my gosh, I feel like this episode is honestly just about collaboration, right? And just being in the same team, because we are all in the same team, you know, making sure our students are thriving and are successful. And, you know, this just kind of reminded me, too, of something that you said, that y'all said earlier, too, right? Of like looking at the standards, targeting the instruction, and also like providing other ways of learning modes, right? Like, Hey, you didn't learn it this way at the your gen ed teachers classroom, here's another way, because then again, you're showcasing to students there are different ways. And once you see this different way, then you can start advocating for what you actually need, right? And so again, I love this piece, Renee, of you saying, like, we work with teachers. We work with teachers. It's not separated, really, it's just more. So, like, how can I enhance what you're already doing, right? And I know Sierra, you talked about timing, right? Like our school, our Jenna teachers, or our teachers are working full time, right? Like, teaching all morning long. Saying we don't have the capacity to do the data digs right. We don't have the capacity to see common trends, because we're so busy making sure our students are getting the content that they need right. And so I, again, I really love this piece of y'all being a thought partner, of y'all adding in, and again, a different perspective, like, hey, we understand you don't have time. So here's the thing that we're creating to enhance an add on which you're already doing. We're not doing anything differently. We're just, you know, providing like we're providing an extra step for students to to master the concept. And oh my gosh, this is so great y'all. This is so cool. This is so so cool. Zach Diamond 40:39 Hey there, listeners. This is Zach just dropping in to remind you that we have a book club running. We're reading Rob Barnett's meet every learner's needs together as a community. And our third session is on redesigning instruction, and it's sponsored by Screencastify, and it's on Wednesday, March 19, at 7pm Eastern. Registration links in the show notes, so you can join us in sharing ideas, questions and resources. But for now, let's get back into it with TR, Amy, Kara, Renee and Sierra. Toni Rose Deanon 41:12 Okay, so we're gonna skip around, because y'all provided us with some resources, actually, and so I want to talk about that. So Amy, you mentioned that you're enjoying diving into the MCP you courses, which is like the MCP university courses. And for folks who don't know if you're on the free course, we actually have more courses that we added on that's like, more specific to content, more specific to also, like, collaboration or, you know, special education. So Amy, tell us more about, like, what you're enjoying from your perspective. Like, what are some highlights that you have? What are some things that you're like, oh my goodness, I want to keep this resource and share it all to everyone I know. Amy Steele 41:51 Yeah, so I think the first like, when I got in there the first time, just the variety of kind of being able to look at, like, where do I want to grow as an educator, and could fine tune that into, like, what course do I want to engage in first, or, like, what's on my playlist of courses that I want to do? So that jumped out right away, just the variety. And so because of the world that I was in when I first was introduced to MCP, and then the work right now with credit recovery, knowing that more and more of our students are choosing the online option of credit recovery versus in person. That was the first course that I've done, and have gone through the materials for the online section. And then like on my, like, my next course, I want to do this one for multilingual learners. And so it's like, yeah, so I kind of have, you know, this, this playlist of the different courses already that I'm going through. And just like the modeling like within the course, and the modeling of like the self pace, the options of like the should do, the must do's, you know, like being able and then being able to apply it to my role right now. So it's not like I'm taking this or I'm talking about a certain scenario within the course, but I'm actually able to, like, develop something related to my work right now and submit those and so yeah, I would say the variety. I think like coming in there and knowing that I can really pinpoint where do I want to continue my learning, having, like, done the free course the initial time, and then gone through the mentorship program, and then now access to MCP University. So Toni Rose Deanon 43:34 yeah, we want to keep those the learning going right. Ongoing, ongoing. Another thing that I really appreciate about those courses, too. Amy, I don't know if you were checking this out, but my favorite part is for the classroom walkthroughs and the lesson walkthroughs, because as an educator who need visual like, I need to see what your classroom looks like, and I need to see how you're planning for your lesson. And the teachers, the experts who are in those courses, literally walk through like, Hey, this is how I plan. This is how I do my lesson. And I thought that that was really, really dope. And you get to see three different perspectives, right? And I believe we were really intentional with having an elementary, middle school and high school teacher as well share those resources. So thank you for sharing that. So Kara, you shared with us an instructional video on making your videos on Canva, which shout out to Canva, oh my gosh, you're doing some really dope stuff, which is also something I needed because I didn't know how to do that. So I was like, Oh snap. This is a really cool instructional video. So yeah, tell us more about that. How did you use that video? Kara Cisco 44:34 Yeah, that was actually created for MCP over the summer. So backstory here, I am also a mentor for MCP, and also just like, shout out to the mentorship team over at MCP, because they are so good at mentor pairing. For instance, right now I'm supporting four teachers that are going through the mentorship program that are all in like, funky, alternative, goofy online scenarios, just like I am so MCP. Man, you guys are really good at hearing people and and I created that Canva tutorial because that is what I use for the instructional videos that I create for my own classes. And I think, you know, I was thinking about as I was creating that, you know, the advice that I find myself consistently providing to mentees that I'm working with in the mentorship program. And I think that in particularly in asynchronous online settings, you know, I still, I still have informational texts, of course, I still have assessments that typically involve, you know, social studies and ethnic studies. So typically involve, like, you know, writing a paragraph where you're supporting an argument with evidence, right? Like, there's still traditional, you know, things that you might find in a in a traditional classroom in there, but the videos do so much heavy lifting. And so advice that I'm I'm constantly reiterating to teachers that I'm working with is like a, of course, streamlining objectives to ensure from that understanding by design, sort of mastery based model that the the, you know, the the learning objectives, that the simple, I can statements, right, that almost provide a scholar like a checklist and a breakdown of what, what the outcome is intended to be for the lesson, right? It's like they're just taking what big, expansive thing that we're trying to teach and just really getting down to the narrow and then for those instructional videos, and I had shared that Canva resource, is just it really for me as a matter of, okay, first, first writing or creating or finding some type of informational text that would support that exact learning objective. And then again, since some social studies, that's my first step, my second step, honestly, is to leverage chat GPT in order to create, essentially, like a slideshow and what becomes a script, essentially for how to introduce that to scholars. And like the most user friendly, creative, fun way, popping that into Canva, using that template, finding visuals and, you know, ancillary resources in order to reinforce it. And then I use the same template again and again and again. And I really think that that gets at again, the psychological safety piece. I think that there's times in a traditional classroom, when like novelty and being really different and fun and creative are great. And I think in a scenario where we have scholars that are maybe are absent very often, and so they lack that continuity that you might find in a traditional classroom, scholars that are struggling, in some ways, perhaps with executive functioning, and just figuring out how to get started can be a struggle. Consistency is key, and so using, I think, that same template again and again has kind of accidentally. It started off as a shortcut for me, frankly, but it sort of accidentally become an asset and a feature as opposed to a shortcut, because there's that predictability. And then I also, if I would, if I could add one more thing, I use a different template because, you know, as I'm making I make content videos, of course, right? Just the teaching, you know, driving at those like streamlined objectives. But I also make process videos all the time, getting back to that idea that in an asynchronous course, the videos do have to do the heavy lifting. And oftentimes, as I'm presenting assignments or writing, you know, assessments, I'm thinking about, okay, what are the two or three questions that I know I would get if I was teaching in person? And then I'm I'm making videos just for those, right? So one of them is probably, how do I turn this in? So that's a video. One of them is probably, how do I What is the vocabulary related? Right? How do I either use context clues in order to determine the meaning of some of these type two and type three vocabulary words, or what are they right? If it's, if it's just easier to just create, you know, like prime students with important vocabulary before the lesson. And the third would be, just, how do I write a paragraph? Site, evidence, right? And so I just have process videos to support scholars as well. Because, again, I think it's so critical. And I even would do this in person too, of thinking, well, what are the questions that I know I'm gonna get? So I can just create videos for those now and again. Even if I was in person, I think out it would be critical for me to make those videos, because then I'm freed up as a teacher. If a student presents one of those questions, I could say, watch the video. It's right there. Toni Rose Deanon 49:32 Yeah, that's my favorite thing to repeat. Is like, watch the video, it's there. I don't have to give you three, four or five minutes of my time and my voice, go watch the video, right? And it's a really good point with the process videos too, Kara, because I'm thinking about me as an adult too. I need process videos. If there's a new thing that you want me to do, I got to be able to watch it over and over again. And then sometimes I'll forget, like, three months later, and then I can go back and say, like, Oh, I'm not gonna, you know, I'm not gonna bug you to ask for. The process. I'm just gonna watch this video. And again, something that we want to teach our students is to go back to the resources that you were exposed to and utilize that. It's not a one and done. You can actually continue to use this as much and as often as you want. And so I really like that. And you know, the whole time that you're talking about using the same template, yeah? Shortcuts, right? Like as teachers, we want to do less. We want to do, yeah, just less. Less is more. And I think that the using the same template too, is that, is that familiarity part for both the teacher, right? Like, knowing, oh, this is how I'm going to do this, and then also the students is, you know, the students saying, like, Oh, I'm familiar with this now, so I can feel a little bit more at ease, because I know what to expect. And so the familiarity piece is really important as well when it comes to, like, transparency, predictability, like all the things that you talked about. Kara, so thank you for Yes, those are all great. I love that. Thank you for sharing that resources and and listeners. We're gonna put that in the show notes as well so you have access to it. And so, Sierra, now you provided a class layout, which I was like, Ooh, this is cool, because first of all, it's English A and then also it's Schoology, which is an LMS that I don't have a lot of experience in. So tell us a little bit more about that. So Sierra Burris 51:14 this speaks to the consistency that students absolutely need. Just like, when, like, you walk into a classroom, you're like, alright, what am I? What do I need to do to be successful in this? And you want to erase, like, any sort of like, questions and doubt that student might have, or at least as many as you can. And so if they're taking an English class, or they're taking, unfortunately, maybe two or three English classes, depending on, like, how many credits they need to recover, they're gonna see the same layout for every single class, and they're gonna see it on day one, on whatever their day one is. So they're kind of all in different areas, but they're gonna be able to see, like, I'm this is the work that I'm expected. I'm not like, opening up or putting up assignments later on. And to be like, Oh, just kidding, you have another one. They get to know everything that they're expected to do right away, but they also know, like, I need to do unit one and then unit two and then unit three, because these are going to build off on each other, but I need a little bit more time with this. I can look at my helpful resources. I know how to contact my teacher. It's going to give them, like, all of that information right there, along with, like, all of my teachers who might be teaching my curriculum. If they are asked to teach an English 10 Research Unit or an English 11 argumentative unit, they're still going to get that same layout. They're still going to get that consistency of like, three units, there's going to be three to four different assignments in there, that kind of stack on top of each other. And it just allows everybody to have a good end point. They know where they're going, which, when you're a student who is already taking, like, full classes during the day, the last thing you need to do is like, feel nervous or not understand the amount of work that you might have to do on top of those classes, because they we want them to be successful in their day school, not have their credits be something that or making up credits be an issue for them at all? Toni Rose Deanon 53:22 Yeah. And I think, you know, when I opened this up, I just felt like a sense of relief, of like, oh, it makes sense, right? Like, all of this attracts I know exactly, like you said, where I'm going, what the end goal is, and so I love that you pointed out it's not just for students, but it's also teachers who are teaching the curriculum that we're providing, we want it to be clear and concise and transparent for everyone involved. Again, y'all are looking at the big picture. You're you're looking at all the parties involved, the stakeholders. So I really love that. And again, listeners will have that in the show notes. You have access to it. You can see it. Okay, so next question, I know we jumped around a little bit, but how has this model impacted your own teaching beliefs. Now, mind you, all four of you were already on that like pathway anyway. Of like, you know what? I'm looking for, self pacing. I'm looking for something that is really going to disrupt the traditional way of teaching and learning, because it hasn't worked for the specific students that you've all worked with individually, right? So how has this model impacted your own teaching beliefs, which some of you already kind of shared, right? And then, how has this made teaching more sustainable for you? And I think a lot of you have already shared that as well. But is there anything else that you want to add on? Renee Swanson 54:30 I'll just kind of speak to a few of the things you just mentioned, just to kind of put it all together. But really it's, it's helping with a mindset, like it's what, what's been so nice is, again, I spoke at the beginning about removing that teacher pace barrier and modern classroom really just gave that that framework for all of us to build from. What I really appreciate is that I know that we have a math counterpart as well, who, who's done the modern classroom product, modern. In classroom training, the same program we went through. We're all coming from the same like philosophy or background, but the way that we're using it, or the way that it can be customized to an English versus a science versus a math versus a social studies has worked really seamlessly, essentially, for us, to for ourselves, for our students, for our teachers, to know that there's, like, this consistent framework philosophy that we're building from, but they're not going to see it the exact same way in a science class that they might see it in an English class. And I think that's great. I mean, I think it's nice again, to give us psychological safety, the predictability, everything we've talked about, but there's still variety, and we're still able to customize it for our students. And again, like we've talked about, let our students see themselves in the science curriculum or the Social Studies curriculum, with that common thread going through it. And so I think that's how myself, personally, but I think also us as a department, how this has really focused our our belief in teaching, and it just makes it more sustainable, just in that knowing that we're all coming from the same philosophy of how we're designing and it not only makes it predictable for the students, but also makes it predictable for us when we're doing the design work. Toni Rose Deanon 56:14 Yes, well said, Renee, thank you for sharing that, because, again, it's so true, right? I feel like something that you didn't mention too, that I felt was joy, right? Of being able to create this thing together as a team, and knowing that you're not by yourself, and having to come up with all the things yourself. So thank you for saying that. Does anyone else want to share anything Amy Steele 56:36 I think, too, in terms of, like, the balance of knowing that we are, we are a large district. We have, you know, our students are amazing and phenomenal, but at the same time, there are ways that we're not meeting their needs, hence where we see them in alternative education and credit recovery. So there, there's systems at play that aren't working for them right now that we're trying to dismantle and interrupt, and with that, our phenomenal teachers who are teaching all day, and then we're asking, we want you to do a little bit more after school with these students who want to engage on their graduation pathway or come to us in summer. And so with that, then having four full time teachers, where their main role is curriculum writing, the collaboration, the review of stakeholder feedback, like that is huge for us. So then when teachers do engage with us because they're there for the students, and then we can say like, Hey, we have this awesome curriculum that we're continuing to modify and develop and tweak based upon your feedback. But here you go, versus saying, like, Hey, you have to do this all yourself, so kind of giving that starting place. And I think that's a unique part of this team, and knowing it was a multi year journey for us to get there, that it wasn't just like we can do all, you know, all courses in one year, like we had a project plan for that. And then another big thing is, like the student feedback that keeps coming in around the self pacing and the flexibility, because they're watching siblings, they're going to work, you know, this life event has happened, and just really feeling like how we're honoring them in some ways that might not always be present in their high school career. And as we really transitioned more to our curriculum with the people on this call teaching it with, you know, other members of the team, we were at an 84% passing rate for the first half of the school year. So once we get students engaged, they're really being successful, and so that's part of that rejuvenation, too, that we are we are helping them meet their goals and setting them up for success, because those scaffolds are built along the way, so that really, like, brings the joy and the sustainability. Like we can do this and we can help our colleagues in St Paul in terms of the counselors who help register the contacts with families. I mean, there's such more people on this call that we haven't, haven't named that are part of this process. Toni Rose Deanon 59:09 84% holy cow, that's amazing. Amy Steele 59:14 Yes, we were very but it's, it's really, you know, shout out and appreciation to the to the people on this call, and a lot of that was the self pacing and this continuous enrollment of, like, if a student just needed two weeks because they were really strong in those standards and just had to show mastery in a slightly different way, they could end that course and move on to something else, or the student who needed eight weeks, like, so really trying to, like, break down that barrier, barrier of time and credit recovery. But yes, we had, I mean, we're still not perfect. There's ways, you know, there's students we're still working at, like who haven't engaged yet, and ways to engage them, but once they're with us, they're doing really well right now. Kara Cisco 59:50 I think, for me, some of the big takeaways, there's a couple, I think, of lessons that I've really learned, specifically from our experience with MC. P that I would I know that I would take into a traditional classroom once my career leads me back in that direction, which I'm sure one day it will. And I was thinking, Okay, first, I was thinking about just Matt the leveraging should do's and aspire to do's with standards based grading and mastery texts and in master these curriculum in general, we haven't talked about that a lot, but I think now more than ever, about the number as a social cities teacher, especially about the number of assignments and projects that I would assign in my classes that I just have to admit are like, just my favorites, right? Or deep dives or things that I personally love, but then recognizing something that I can certainly identify now and with my experience in credit recovery, which is just it's really absurd to imagine a scholar who is like a newcomer to the country, or who is an emerging reader, or who is has all sorts of life challenges that prevent them from having consistent attendance. It's really hard to imagine a scholar engaging at that level if they don't have mastery of the basics and therefore like being able to let go a little bit of some of those assignments that are kind of pet things are like Jennifer Gonzalez called Grecian urns, right? Things that I loved to assign, but understanding that they are should do's, or they are aspire to do's, and it's okay to have sort of that tier differentiation approach where there are just, frankly, scholars who my work is with them working individually, while other scholars in the class are working on, you know, the the the assignments that do require a much more proficient depth and complex, depth and complexity in terms of understanding that core objective. Think that's number one. And then number two, I think about a lot, is just the way that we leverage instructional videos and how critical that is for any classroom, including in person. So thinking about those scholars who do have inconsistent attendance, maybe they were suspended for, you know, long stretch of time. Maybe they have, like, acute medical issues that they're dealing with, or family emergencies, or whatever it's it's pretty I just can't imagine just how that might feel as a scholar, to come back to a classroom 510, you know, 14 days later, to a situation where the entire class has moved on and they have no idea, how could anyone possibly be successful in those circumstances? I think about that all the time now, and how critical it is for the type of scholar that we serve and we have a lot of compassion for in order to have, you know, curriculum that's available to them on an LMS and videos explaining for them what to do, and every all of the things that MCP provides the structure for in any classroom in order to particularly serve that, like very, you know, scholars that have those very unique needs. Sierra Burris 1:03:10 And if I can just add, I think that kind of with what Carl was saying, is like, there's so many different reasons why these kids are coming to us because they failed class, and that's not even necessarily because of, like, a lack of understanding. And we like to think as adults like we can. We love failure because it's an opportunity to learn, but it doesn't read that way for students or even for adults. When you're like, No, you failed. This really resets that mindset where it's like, it's not that I could, that it's not that I failed it I just, I just needed more time, or I needed another example, or I needed this. And so it kind of shifts that like permission to fail to more of a like permission to do better. And I think we all need a little bit more permission just to do better, Toni Rose Deanon 1:03:59 definitely reminder all the time that it's okay to fail and it is okay to do better, like, here's the permission, and I always say this too, that as adults, we do need permission sometimes, and it's not like we're asking it, right, but it's just like the permission to exist the way we want to exist and also show up whenever And however we can. So this is a great reminder, all right, who this is amazing, and I feel like I have so many more questions, but I do want to be mindful of time. So how can our listeners connect with you? If possible? Amy Steele 1:04:36 Yeah, the best way are to start emails through St Paul Public Schools, and so I'm I would predict you'd put those in the show notes. So it's a star first and last names@spps.org Toni Rose Deanon 1:04:48 beautiful. I am so excited again. Just thank you for being here. Thank you for sharing your brains and your expertise and your experiences and. Also just thank you for expanding my brain. I really appreciate you all taking this time to share and showcase the great work that you're doing at St Paul's. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. Zach Diamond 1:05:16 Thank you so much for listening. You can find links to topics and tools we discussed in our show notes for this episode. And remember, you can learn more about our work at www.modernclassrooms.org and you can learn the essentials of our model through our free course at learn.modernclassrooms.org you can follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram at modernclassproj, that's P, R, O, J, we are so appreciative of all you do for students in schools. Have a great week, and we'll be back next Sunday with another episode of the modern classrooms project podcast. Transcribed by https://otter.ai