Zach Diamond 0:02 Music. Welcome to the modern classrooms project podcast each week, we bring you discussions with educators on how they use blended, self paced and mastery based learning to better serve their students. We believe teachers learn best from each other, so this is our way of lifting up the voices of leaders and innovators in our community. This is the modern classrooms project podcast. Toni Rose Deanon 0:28 Hello and welcome to episode 208. Of the modern classrooms project podcast. My name is Toni Rose Deanon they them pronouns, a designated hype person here at MCP. And I am joined by Jorge Valenzuela, who is a highly sought after and well regarded performance and education coach, author and speaker at Lifelong Learning defined. He got a start in education and has helped countless educators improve their instructional leadership and teaching skills. Jorge specializes in emphasizing Instructional Innovation through action research, and is a trusted deliverer of reputable professional training and collaborative team building, core instruction, project based learning, stem pathways, entrepreneurship and life skills, integrations across the curriculum. He partners with corporate executives and superintendents and provides professional development on behalf of ASCD Corwin, Premier speakers bureau and solution tree. He has authored several books and is the Lifelong Learning defined podcast host. Y'all, I'm so excited to be in this space with Jorge. We met, I believe, last year, actually, and so it's just been such a joy getting to know Jorge throughout the couple of months. And so welcome Jorge. Jorge Valenzuela 1:43 Thank you, Toni. I It's an honor to be here. We need to shout out Jornea. Toni Rose Deanon 1:47 Yes, Jorge Valenzuela 1:48 Jornae, if she's listening, if she's watching, she's the reason why we're connected. And she often says, I'm a connector. So Toni Rose Deanon 1:56 yeah, and it, and it really helps with inspiring me to be a connector as well, right? So, and that was one of the things that we all kind of talked about, and we were in the space together of like, Hey, I know dope people. You know dope people. Let's put them all in the same room and then just continue to enhance and and yeah, and make our lives a little bit better. And so, yes, Jornea, Miss you, love you. We are gonna touch base soon, I'm sure. And so it's so exciting again, you know, to be in this space with you. And thank you so much for saying yes to the podcast. So Jorge, before we get started, this is my favorite question, what is currently bringing you joy Jorge Valenzuela 2:36 right now? Everything in my life, all the people that I've chosen to be my family, all the people that I've chosen to be my family, my my children, my pet, my career moves. It's taking a long time, but I am living a life of my own making, and it's taken me over 40 years, but I finally have done it, and so for the audience, and hopefully this is to give people hope, if they need hope. I turned 49 this year, and maybe four weeks ago, I told myself, you are finally the man that you've always wanted to be. It's taken me a while, but I can say that now I'm I'm living that, Toni Rose Deanon 3:20 oh my gosh. I love that so much Jorge. And I think for me, definitely needed to hear that, because sometimes being in my own head of like, oh, it's taking so long. It's taking forever to do this, like one thing, or to disrupt this pattern. And so thank you for just validating that experience and sharing with us what is currently bringing you joy. And so, you know, I already, you know that that bio was amazing, that introduction was amazing. And so let's talk about, let's talk a little bit more about, like, you know, your teaching journey, how it led to the work that you're currently doing as an entrepreneur with lifelong learning Jorge Valenzuela 3:58 Toni, I got into the classroom and started out as a computer science and STEM teacher, and I did that for about five years. Then I got my administrative license, and I realized in the internship that I don't want to be a principal. I didn't want to be an AP. Definitely did not want to spend my days doing cafeteria duty, bus duty or referrals, so I stayed in the classroom. And then one day, fate intervened, and someone from central office at Richmond City Public Schools walked into my classroom, and she saw me teach, she was very impressed, and she encouraged me to apply for the instructional leadership position for my content area, which is technology and engineering education. And to be honest, I didn't have the confidence I do now, but I learned this, Toni relationships are the most important thing in life, and when people see potential in you that you don't see in yourself, and they like you, they have to like you. They're going to help you. She kept encouraging me for about six. Six months, finally, I applied, I interviewed, and I got the job. And when I got the job, Toni, I realized that a lot of the times from central office, we were telling teachers and asking them to do things that we didn't know how to do ourselves, and we're the curriculum specialists. And I knew back then that I had no interest in being a transactional leader. A transactional leader is someone who says, Well, okay, here's the curriculum and here's the resources, here's the PD, here's the book, here's the inspiration. Now figure it out. I wanted to be a transformational leader, someone who has the knowledge and the skill sets to show all educators, whether administrators who are supporting teachers or teachers who are supporting kids, how to improve in their craft. And if there's something I didn't know how to do myself, then I can find the right coach or the right resource and learn alongside my colleagues. I became a master teacher at the Buck Institute for Education around 2014 2015, ish, and then I got into the PhD program, and I learned the science behind all of the strategies that I use in my work, and now I use that knowledge, and I co create with other educators, learn from them as well, but we co create systems for many topics pertaining to Instructional Innovation, which you read in my bio, including project based learning, which is why I do what I do today. Toni Rose Deanon 6:30 I mean, Jorge, I know that one of the things that I really appreciate about you was that I was able to see you in action and present at a session, right, and just your ability to be vulnerable, and also being able to share like, Hey, these are all the things that worked for me. It may work for you, it may not work for you, but like, these are the steps that I actually went through to get to where I am now. And I think the audience really, really loved how real you were, and you just sharing like, this is where you know, this is how I got here. These are all the things that I've tried, and I want to be mindful of, like, you not wasting your time, right? And like, just go ahead and sharing all the things that I went through so that you don't have to go through it, which I also really, really love. Jorge Valenzuela 7:12 Can I tell you why? Though? Yeah, yeah, go for it. I was doing a presentation at my district, Richmond City Public Schools in 2017 and I did my presentation, and you're a speaker as well. So you know that we rehearse and that we polish ourselves up. You don't leave anything to chance. You do everything that's in your control. And two young teachers approached me afterwards, and they were like, man, we want to do what you do, but I don't think I could do that. And I realized in that moment that if you don't share your story the way it is, then you're making people think you're more than you are. That the truth is, no one is smarter than anyone, no one is better than anyone. People just have more experience. So I never want someone to see me and think that they can't do it if it's what they want to do. I do want people to wait. You know what? Not that I want people to acknowledge it, but as a professional, you have to be on your A game, otherwise you wanted to reach out to me, but at the same time, I want people to say, if he can do it, I can do it, yeah. Toni Rose Deanon 8:27 And I think, you know, going back to what you were saying about a leader who came up to you and said, Hey, I think you'd be perfect at this instructional leadership position, right? And it took six months of that person getting you to believe in yourself, right? And I think, like, that's, I was just watching this Tiktok video, and it was all about, it only takes one person to say that they believe in you, to change that trajectory of what you thought you could or could not do, right? And so I really love this whole concept of that, like, there's a lot of imposter syndrome and people, right? People experience that a lot of the times, and then it's this whole concept of, I don't think I could do that. And again, like, you being able to say, like, no, like, let's, let's shift some things. Let's make it happen for you, because I'm sure you have the skill set that we may need to just continue practicing. And then also understanding that it takes time, like, it doesn't actually, like, you just don't do it the first time, and then you're good at it. And I think that's with anything Jorge Valenzuela 9:25 exactly you got it. Toni Rose Deanon 9:27 Yeah. And so Jorge, another question for me, you talked about transactional versus transformational leadership. And I do really love these two, these two terms, because it really does provide like, examples of, like, just like way of being, right? Like a ways of being. And so I think, like, let's name the fact that you are a male of color in education, right, and just the fact that, like, you want to be transformational, so you have to really be in tune with what you don't know and how you go about. Finding ways to learn, right? Because I think sometimes not just men, but also just like human beings, right? Like ego and pride come into place, and that, I think sometimes turns into transactional leadership. So how did you do this work within yourself, to be vulnerable, to know like and to be able to say, like, oh, wait a minute, I actually don't know what I'm doing. I need to do something. Jorge Valenzuela 10:26 All right. So, all right. So I'm gonna back up a little bit and tell you about when I was a kid. So I grew up in the 80s. In the 80s, we just didn't back talk adults. You know? We just like, Yes, ma'am, yes, sir, all of that. And I remember that whenever an adult would tell me something I didn't want to hear, I would Yes, ma'am and yes sir, them to death. But in my mind, I was thinking, I'm going to do whatever I want to do. It doesn't matter Say whatever you got to say, but as soon as you're done, I'm going to do me. And I remember being this way. But for some reason, whatever they would say, it's almost like they were planting seeds. And they would play back throughout my life, and at times when I needed to hear it, for example, I was in foster care. I was in a group home, and I remember, I want to say my 18th birthday, or shortly thereafter, they told me, you have to go on your own now. And I was very scared, and I looked in the mirror and I said something that an adult told me, I am taking responsibility for my life today, not knowing what that meant. Well anyway, fast forward a few years, and I believe it was at the age of 25 I realized realize that all the advice I was given, a lot of it, was accurate, and I didn't know what I was doing as I became a professional, as I got into my instructional leadership position, I remember my mentor sitting me down, and my district assigned me a mentor. So for districts out there, if you can assign mentors to your young leaders, please do so young teachers as well. It's very important. But he told me, seeing I and for the audience, that's curriculum and instruction. He said, That's a big topic, and we have 50 schools, and we have a district, and we have funding, and we have all these different things that you're going to have to learn. It's going to take you nine years to learn this job. And in my mind, I'm thinking, Oh, hell no, in three years, I'm done with this, and I'm moving on to bigger and better. That was the mindset. And as I got into the job, I left the job exactly nine years later, as I got into this space and as a male, and just being honest, we're living in a time where there's other voices that are being heard, and I've come to realize that no one cares about my opinion, unless, if they're paying me to come and do something, and it's not a bad thing, right? Like, why is my opinion and why are my thoughts and my way of thinking and being most important? You know, I've had to ask myself that over the years, and that's why, if you notice on my social media, you never hear my opinion, I'm giving you the work that I do now. On my personal social media, you'll see more glimpses of who I am and my personal life, because that's for my friends and family, but on my professional the it's not for my friends and family, and it's not for my contemporaries, it's for people that need the information. So I very intentionally, you know, am very aware of what my brand is, my personal brand, what I live every day, is lifelong learning for self improvement, personal and professional growth. So the content that you're seeing is either to make you better in your profession or as a person, whether it's Instructional Innovation, project based learning, emotional intelligence, the podcast, whatever it is. So I am very intuitive what I'm doing. I understand my role in society. I am a role model, but I'm not a role model for every person. My mentor sat me down before I started the PhD program, and she said, Jorge for African American women, I was in the 11th percentile for PhDs back in 2001 when I graduated, and it's probably less for Hispanics and Latinos. You're a role model for your people, whether you think you are or not, and what you do and what you say can either open or close doors you. So in the back of my mind, these things are always there, and I have found that when you accept who you are and that what you have to say may not always be accepted or be wanted, it just makes me it takes a lot of pressure off, like I go into social settings. I go to family gatherings. I don't have to be anything. I could just be Jorge. And if people ask me cool, and a lot of times, once we start talking, I lead my interactions with compassion, empathy. I am assertive, but I'm leading there. So I'm inviting them to say what they got to say. And sometimes they ask me about what I think or what I'm doing, and that opens that door. Toni Rose Deanon 15:50 Okay, you said a lot of things, and no, these are no, these are all really great, because I'm just, you know, processing a lot of it, and it's resonating a lot. I kind of, you know, when you were talking about being 25 and then realizing, oh, like, there were a lot of accurate, like, opinion statements that were being said, but I wasn't prepared to receive them just yet, right? And I know that our brains don't fully develop until around that age anyway, so like, 25 to 28 and so that makes a lot of sense, because I know growing up, I also got a lot of unwanted opinions about how I should navigate and so, and you're right, right? Because, like, my mom's advice would often come back now in my late 30s, and understanding like, Oh, this is what she meant. So I think, like, the importance of being receptive is also a thing that a skill that needs to be practiced for some folks, right, or for all of us, honestly. And then when you're thinking about when you said, like, I'm a role model, whether I like it or not, do you feel like, do you feel that that's a lot of pressure on you thinking that way, I feel like you've gotten a hang of like this. You know, the balance of like, Yeah, I'm a role model, and I still get to show up as authentically as myself. Jorge Valenzuela 17:10 Yeah, you have to live what you teach and live what you say. If you're not doing that, then you then you definitely will have a hard time with that. I'll be honest, it took me a long time to arrive at this point of being. Jorge Valenzuela became a teacher. He was Mr. V that was an alter ego. That was someone that I would become from seven to three o'clock in the beginning, I'll be honest, it took Jorge Valenzuela a few years to actually live what I was saying every day. And as a father and being responsible for two young adults now, one is 21, and one is 19, you definitely have to toe that line and live what you say and as a husband too. So it might have been hard back then, and I think it was, but now it's a lot easier the fact I told you offline, I live a very uncomfortable life. I realize you can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't have all the candy in the candy store. It doesn't work like that. That's not how life works. And I would give you some personal examples, but this is not the forum. But let's just say this, you have to have integrity. You have to be a person of your word, and it starts with yourself, accepting who you are and knowing who you are, and then eliminating those parts of yourself that are not useful to you or to others, but then really growing those things that you want to see. Toni Rose Deanon 18:55 Yeah, I mean, I have to have to be honest. You just keep it so real, like all the time, which I want to surround myself with, because I think I've just been living in, like, doulu for a long time, but I know that, like, you and I were texting and kind of talking, and you had really just called me in on, like, some of the behaviors that you've noticed with me, of, like, I was afraid to blank, right? And I'm like, dang, I gotta process that. Like, leave it alone for a couple of days. Like, I don't know how I feel about what you just said. Jorge Valenzuela 19:24 Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. But in all fairness to to me, you asked me for advice. Number one, yes, yes, yes, right. So I never, I never. I try not to, even with my kids or my wife. I always ask you want some feedback before I give advice. But you asked me for specific advice, and I remember saying, I love you number one, but number two, because you asked me, I'm not going to tell you what you want to hear. I'm going to tell you, from the best of my ability, what I think you need to hear. But I know that I was trying. Transformational, because I provided you then resources and a template, a framework of something for you to now be able to take the advice and implement it. Yeah, it's very different than just saying, well, you're afraid and you're double block and now figure it out. I don't do Toni Rose Deanon 20:18 that. Thank you for like, clarifying, because that's exactly what you did with me. But you know, some people are like, Oh, my God, this is what happened. That was like, and I wasn't, I didn't like, hate you or anything for it. It was just, like, one of those things. You're like, Oh, wow. Like, I did ask for it, and this was not what I was expecting. And this is feedback that's making me, like, feel really uncomfortable. And I knew that because I felt uncomfortable, this was a sign of growth that I needed to participate in, right? I didn't turn away from it. I didn't like, you know, cuss you out or anything. I was just like, whoa. Like, I kind of knew this, but hearing it from someone else say it like it made it more real, I think. And so I appreciate that. I appreciate that you were able to create the space where I could be receptive, and that you could be like, hey, like, you do these things well, and hear all the things also that could make you even better. And so I really, really, again, appreciate that part. And so again, just thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And I guess like listeners, you're probably wondering, like, why are we talking about like our ways of being? Well, it's really important as educators to know like, our thoughts, our biases, the way we act, the way that we are when we are doing the things that we're doing for our students, right? Like, how do we show up in spaces? How do we create spaces that are actually brave and safe ish for students to be themselves as well, right? I know when I was in the classroom, I showed up as myself. If my ADHD were all over the place, it was all over the place. And my students knew, like, Oh, Ms D needs a moment, or like, Ms D needs to, you know, do this thing right now. And so really, providing this space that, like, I made mistakes, I showed up kind of messy sometimes, but it was real, because we're all human beings, and I think a lot of the times too, Jorge, when I, when I talk with educators, because there's so many things that are expected of educators now, right? Like, sometimes our ways of being just goes in the back burner, and we don't think about it's like, oh, I got to talk about the standards. I got to teach the standards. I got to teach this. I got to teach this, I got to teach that. And it's like not enough time to do all the things that we need to. And so a lot of the times, our well being is put in the back burner. So that means in our students, well being is also put in the back burner. And so you and I were talking about, and you had mentioned also project based learning. And I know that in our community here at modern classroom, we love project based learning because there's a lot more, I guess, like creativity, autonomy, curiosity around that, and so I'm guessing, like, what's the main message of your project based learning work? Jorge Valenzuela 22:56 My brand of PBL is called PBL plus, and is through core win press PBL plus does two main things. For for teachers, it improves core instruction. And for students, it aligns academic learning with essential life skills, which I think is what you're talking about too, is their well being. Essential life skills in my brand of PBL are broken up into three categories, and they pertain to number one, knowledge of self. Two, emotional intelligence, and three, career readiness skills. All kids are not the same, and they don't need to focus on the same essential life skills in PBL plus, we encourage teachers to learn your students, survey them, survey families, and figure out what are the essential life skills we need to incorporate, to personalize learning and PBL for them. Think of project based learning as a playbook. Imagine if you're a basketball player and you have a lot of talent, a lot of charisma, you can run, you can throw, you can shoot, but you don't have a playbook, you might do well against other novices, but if you get on a team where other players have a playbook and the opposing team also has a playbook, now you're not going to be very effective. Project based learning is an instructional approach. It's a teaching methodology. It's a way to teach most importantly for folks out there, it's a research informed way to teach. It uses an amalgam of strategies from the behavioral and cognitive learning theories. It's constructivist teaching, where learning happens along a continuum, not in one day, not in two days. Projects are a process. Projects should be held if you're new to PBL, especially for two to three weeks at a time, especially for educators who have a lot of content they have to teach. My job is to go into schools, help teachers plan projects and then model how to facilitate every aspect of the project effectively. I have a specialized work. Workshop, several articles and two books that have a solid system using various frameworks and tools for helping you improve or begin your PBL journey. Toni Rose Deanon 25:10 And this is great, right? How did you come up with the three like pillars, right? Like the knowledge of self, the emotional intelligence and then the life skills? Because those are all so important. And I think sometimes when we're given a curriculum, right, the curriculum doesn't include any of that, like, there's no time for that. So how did you because this is fantastic. Jorge Valenzuela 25:30 I got you. I got you. So I wrote a book about SEL. It's through solution tree, and I wrote it in 2020 and I think it was published in 2021 or 2022 now, I'll be honest, I write a book every year, or I try to write a book every year. And this was not a book that I was really checking for, that I was thinking about writing. My emotional intelligence journey began before covid And before SEL became a thing, and I got into it because of my kids. When my teenagers started to pay me no never mind whenever I would say and do things I didn't like, I realized I had to do some internal work, and I found through a book. It's called Emotional Intelligence. 2.0 is by Dr Travis Bradbury and Greaves Jene, and it had an emotional intelligence assessment that I took, and the appraisal told me exactly where I was messing up. It was on giving unsolicited feedback and then ranting and raving instead of being to the point. And I think you appreciate this. Toni. You saw me present. You hear me speak now I'm to the point. I'm to the point not a lot of filler words, not a lot of fluff. Is just to the point. It is kind it's very self explanatory. But I had to learn that, because I learned through emotional intelligence that the person receiving the information gets turned off if it's not done, brief, succinct and impactful. Well, anyway, I wrote this book, and it was around a time where everyone became an activist, including myself. And that's an important thing at times, and some people do it all the time. I wrote the book, and we did some data collections with one school system in particular, but then I started to do it around the country virtually. When we started getting pushback from some of the states on SEL I started realizing that you know what, not every kid needs SEO, because they might have earned it at home. And if you look at you know children from families where they have traditions where the kids know who they are, they they have a culture that they're very much in tune with. A lot of them don't need a lot of the SEL stuff, but they maybe focus more on some career readiness skills. They want to focus on life after high school and then children like myself that were cut off from their heritage and their culture, because they did not live with a traditional family. For example, I grew up in New York, but my family, my bloodline, is in Columbia, is in Texas, and I didn't grow up with them. So my culture was the culture of the kids in the group home and at school, which is hip hop. And the framework that we communicated with, and I still do with my very closest friends, is music is lingo, is fashion, is sports, and as a traveler, well, I do want to say this. I will always have, I will always have a soft spot for those kids who grew up in a similar circumstance to mine, inner city in the hood, incarcerated parents, foster care, all of that. But as an educator, as a father, as a husband, as a traveler, I've come to realize that I am no longer that kid. I don't even live in the same neighborhoods anymore. I'm no longer this kid. That's who I used to be, that's what I overcame. And as a traveler and educator, I realized that Queens New York is one little speck in the world, and my culture, although is hip hop, this is not the prevalent culture in the places I go to or of the people that I'm meeting. So I have to seek first to understand before seeking to be understood. Therefore, I I've learned that knowledge of self for. Some kids, is an essential life skill, and for some adults, too, ever being honest? So what I've done is I've categorized life skills, because they are life skills, into those three, knowledge of self, if you need it, emotional intelligence or SEL if you need it, and then career readiness, and if teachers just get out of the way, our teaching should never be about us. It should be about the kids in our classroom, and we need to become the educator that the kids who are in front of us need, because we go into relationships to give, not to take. So once I realized that it made it easier for me to allow teachers that autonomy, to not feel that, well, I have to do this because it's popular in education, or I can't say this because they don't want me to say it. No, survey the kids, survey the families get on one accord, and then you allow that to be integrated into the work you do with kids. Toni Rose Deanon 31:06 Okay, okay, well, y'all listeners, we're gonna have all the books and things that Jorge mentioned in the show notes, so no worries about taking notes or anything. I also really like the fact that you said, you know, communication, we're we're communicating with people. It's brief, six, six in six. Oh my gosh. How can I not say that word and impactful? And one of the things that came up to me initially were Tiktok videos, right? I hear all the times educators were competing with Tiktok videos, and it's like, yeah, because it's brief is to the point, and it gets like, right to where we need it's a lot of micro learning that's happening, which I think is so valuable, and we can acknowledge that, and that's fine, right? And so also, another thing that just you literally just expanded my brain so much was your statement of saying that some kids don't, may not need the social emotional learning skills, right? Because they are getting that at home, because that is something that they've been practicing it. And so the beautiful piece that you said all of that is, like, here's all the things if you need it. And so this is where differentiation comes in. This is where personalization comes in. Like, personalizing learning and even just saying, like, you know it's an option, right? Like, you may have gotten these skills at home if you want to continue practicing, go for it if you want to move on to another part. Also, here are the options for that. Because I think sometimes in education, we get so hyper focused on like, just one thing, right, that we're like, oh, but we don't have time for all of these other options that we can create for our students. And I think for me, you just kind of put it all together of why it's so important for us to know ourselves, because if we don't know ourselves, teaching and everything we do is always going to be about us. We're always going to want to take if we don't know who we are, per se and how we're showing up. Jorge Valenzuela 33:00 One of the things that I put into my SEL book, and I made my own framework based on the data that that we collected. And the first step was to have a handle on the basics of emotional intelligence and sel. And of course, we used castles framework because of the research that that they've done. But it's not just that the castles framework is a behavioral framework, and SEL shouldn't be one size fits all. So the part two of my first step is yes, know the framework, know SEL know about social personal competence, responsible decision making, but also have a good handle on your own emotional intelligence. And then the second step is to know what you believe about your students, not the students down the road, not the ones you saw on the news, not the ones you see at the mall. Know what you believe about the students that you serve, because we have biases that we may not be aware of, that we got from our upbringing, that we got from our other colleagues, family, friends, the media, whoever we have to know what we believe, because research shows that whatever you believe about someone, it's going to either raise or lower expectations. It's going to either jack up or improve interactions, and ultimately is going to to either hurt their learning, self esteem, all these things, or is going to improve it. There's a book called The Four Agreements. It's by Domingue al Reece, and one of the things that he says is that when people hear something, when they hear it, they either agree with it or they disagree the thing. That adults educators have to understand is that young children tend to agree with everything they hear in the beginning, and because they do whatever we say that is harmful, that isn't helpful to them. For some of them, it's going to take a long time to disagree with that statement and that belief. So it's important to really know what you believe about your kids, and it starts with self, though. It starts with self, Toni Rose Deanon 35:36 yes, yes, yes. I don't want to say, I wish I would have known earlier, because I wasn't at that space. I wouldn't have been receptive. So I'm glad that I'm learning now. I think, especially with bias, you know, it is okay that we have biases, because we have different experiences, right? What? And there's a lot of shame sometimes with the biases that we've held in the past. I think what I would really love to see is us, like, releasing those, the shame, acknowledging the fact that that was what I believed in, and it's not anymore. And I think, like the I think what's not okay is you like knowing that that's a bias, and then you continue to act on the bias. You know what I'm saying. And like, also, when someone is taking their time and energy to teach you even a little bit and you just refuse. That's also something that I'm like, oh my goodness, what is what is happening, right? And then also, like you said, there's confirmation bias, right? Like, once we already think that, and we we believe and trust that that's how it is for certain groups of people, then you're always going to see that, because that's what you that's what you're used to. So that's that confirmation bias that plays in as well. And so when you're thinking about, you know, you're talking about trusting and believing our students, right? Like so easy to say that Jorge and yet so difficult to actually do right? Because, like you said, there's a lot of impacts happening around us, media, hearsay, whatever else that you know folks are being exposed to. And so when I'm thinking about project based learning, there's a lot of trust that goes into creating project, project based learning, right? So I guess, okay. So my question is, when as educators, we have to trust our students, we need to trust our students, what should teachers new to project based learning consider when they're designing their project, so when they're just like starting to implement I know that emotional intelligence is key, right? And so understanding who you are and how you show up. How do you build this trust? Because I know also with educators, we love control, right? Jorge Valenzuela 37:54 Well, trust is earned as the first thing, as the first thing, but I think what we're trying to get at is honoring the experiences of kids and not diminishing their experiences or what they're bringing to the table. When designing a project, especially for the first time, I believe teachers need a system. So when coaching teachers, I have them begin by creating a summary of five things. Number one, what they want kids to learn, and this is an area where they can get the kids input. Number two, the products that kids are going to create, again, this is where they can honor the experiences of kids and allow them to create using tools that they are comfortable with. Three, the standards the project will align to whether there's some competencies on emotional intelligence, their academic standards, their CTE or their career standards, whatever you want them to do four assessments. You have to assess learning and then five learning experiences for young people. Also, I do want to talk a little bit more about honoring the experiences of kids and allowing them to earn trust. Make sure the project that you're designing is student centered, children, youth, teens, young adults need to see themselves in the work that you want them to engage in. They have to see their their interests and their passions and themselves in the curriculum. So again, like I said, before survey them and get to know them before designing the project, or while you're designing the project, John Hattie once said, See learning for the eyes of students, meaning we have to know them both as people and learners. Knowing them as people is knowing their interests, their goals and assets, knowing them as learners are their academic needs, their career needs, and that magic word again, life skills, learning needs, we need to know both and to consider both to make projects student. Center. Toni Rose Deanon 40:00 I love this. You're just so brief. Jorge Valenzuela 40:03 You gotta be to the point Toni Rose Deanon 40:05 exactly right, right, to the point. Igot nothing to add. Jorge Valenzuela 40:07 But if people play that back, there's a lot there. And what we're gonna do is, for each of these questions, I'm going to put in the articles from Edutopia that lift up everything I just said with the science and the practical, actionable tools, including, I'm going to give you my system as a gift, my project template, the entire system, and then a completed example, so folks can have something that they work from. And I do want to say this, whatever I'm talking about, whatever I'm doing. This is what Jorge understood, however, the listener, the audience, the participants, have their own experiences, have their own knowledge base, have their own expertise. Just take the pieces that make sense, that are relevant, and leave the rest. It doesn't hurt my feelings, right? It's what I understood all the time. As I'm working in schools, I learned too, Toni Rose Deanon 41:03 and thank you for that. That's really, really exciting, because I know our educators often, sometimes get stuck with where to begin, and so a template would be really useful for them to visualize and say, like, Oh, this is how this is what you're talking about. So I get it and I can make it work for my students. Zach Diamond 41:25 Hey there listeners. This is Zach dropping in with some announcements and reminders for the week of September, 29 2024 our Back to School toolkit is out and ready for you for this year, we focused on communicating with caregivers and stakeholders all about blended self paced and mastery based learning, and you can download that in this week's show notes. And have you always wanted a community to read books with? We are hosting a book club with screenpal and Kami starting at the end of this month, the community has chosen to read UDL and blended learning by Katie Novak and Katlyn Tucker join us in this 10 week community of practice to learn with and from educators across the country. Receive premium access to both screenpal and Kami and deepen your understanding of UDL and blended learning. Get your must do reading pages for our second session on Thursday, October 10, at 7pm Eastern. Registration links are in the show notes, along with a whole bunch of other fantastic resources from this episode with Toni Rose and Jorge, which we are going to get right back into now. Toni Rose Deanon 42:32 So I think, okay, so I have a follow up question. You know, you say student centered, and this is a phrase that we say all the time in education, how do what are some questions that educators could ask when they're creating learning experiences to really center students? Jorge Valenzuela 42:50 I believe every teacher needs to monitor their impact, and you monitor your impact by seeking feedback from your students and from trusted colleagues. That's the key word, is trusted, but you seek feedback from your students. How do you learn best? What can I do to help you learn better? This is very simple, and you also have to look at research data shows that young people want learning tailored to their interests. They want learning that is relevant to their current lives and future aspirations, and they want some choice in what and how they learn, so just ask them and make it as a survey and do an exit ticket. There's many ways of doing this, and if you do this is going to make your teaching better, and there's times you have to Skill and Drill, like, if you're a math teacher, there's no way around it. There's times where you're going to have to focus on problem solving so that they can learn the math, follow the steps and then be assessed. Let them know, Hey, this is this test. Is a toll booth on the highway of life, on the highway of school, and we have to get through it, but you can't just make your day about that. If your whole entire teaching is about that, then you're not going to get kids engaged that are not focused super hyper focused on going to college and following a traditional pathway. I think those days are not over yet, but, but they're ending, and education on, unfortunately, hasn't caught up. I don't think everything should be a project. I don't believe that you have to do PBL every single day, but I think that you have to be more innovative in your approach and letting kids have some input into the classroom. And I Toni Rose Deanon 44:46 think some of the things that you were saying too with students wanting choice, wanting things that are relevant to them, I mean, we could also say that as adults, right, like when we're going through our learning experiences, we also want something that we can relate to, that we under. That we have an option to choose. So I think it's it's really important. Because I think sometimes educators forget that I know myself. Sometimes I forget that too. So it's really nice to be reminded that, hey, the way that we want to learn is actually the way that our students want to learn as well. And so I also really like the permission that you stated of saying PBL doesn't have to happen every day. You can mix it up. And I think that's the beauty of education, is that you can mix it up, like every hour if you wanted, you can you can just you can shift it every day if you wanted, right? And so I think our students are so good at embracing change, they're able to move and navigate and all the things, as long as there are clear guidelines with those changes, right? And I think that's really important too, and, and I think what you were saying with getting to know our students, with surveying them, giving them, you know, having options for them to give us feedback, and not just us giving them feedback, I think this also answers a lot of the questions about engagement, about motivation, about curiosity, right? Because I think again, when students see themselves, when students feel heard and valued, they are really more inclined to pay that much more attention to what's happening in that space. So I really like that reminder as well. Jorge Valenzuela 46:17 A really good teacher is going to monitor three things, engagement and achievement. Engagement and achievement in the literature are heavily correlated, or strongly correlated. John Hattie once said this, any new initiative in your school in your district where engagement isn't factored in is doomed to fail. If people are not engaged, then you're not going to want to learn. And that goes for adults too. So you monitor engagement, achievement, but also, like we said before, you monitor your own impact. And if you keep this at the forefront of your core teaching practices, then I think you'll be an expert at what you do. Yes, and it won't be about you. It won't be about you. Have you noticed that anything that we've talked about today hasn't been about myself, and even when you ask for my origin story, I found a way to turn my origin story into a conversion story, looking at research and looking at analytics for podcasting and things in general that I do, I've come to learn that if you haven't achieved something great, people don't care about your origin story. They want to hear conversion stories. They want to be able to see themselves in the story and see what you overcame. For example, when I said, Well, I didn't have the confidence I have. Now, the listener that didn't really care, or they're like, Okay, let's get to the point of PBL when the minute someone says I didn't have the confidence I have now, if they can relate to it, now, they're like, Okay, how did he overcome it? Because I have that problem too, and I think that when we do that, then we're designing, we're designing with empathy, because we're using that qualitative data to inform what we're doing. It's about other people, whatever you like to do, whatever you're into, you can do that on your own time. Yeah, yeah. I think a lot of adults that do PBL, that I've seen, not a lot, but some of the spaces I've been in the real world, you got to keep it real world, and student centered. Student Centered means that they're doing the work, and you're in the background, you're on the side, and the real world, what business and industry and all this? Okay? Why would kids care about that? Some kids might, but why would they care? It's got to be about them. If it's sneakers, if it's a social issue, if it's an environmental issue, let it be about them. And if you don't know enough about the topic, that's okay. PBL allows us to bring in experts, and experts can help the teachers learn as well. In PBL, the teacher is the lead learner, meaning we're learning alongside kids. Toni Rose Deanon 49:13 Yes, the importance of, why, right? Like, why are we doing this? Why do I need to know this? And that is so, so, so, so true. I also really like the the phrase that you said designing with empathy, right? Just keeping that in mind too, when we I mean, we're in the beginning of the school year, right? So we are here creating and planning for how the school year is going to look. And so just a reminder of just designing with empathy is really important. Jorge Valenzuela 49:39 Yeah. And so many people say that, so many people say that, Oh, I'm a design thinker, right? Like I use design thinking that they always say this, but they're always centering and uplifting their voice. That's not empathy. Empathy is to repeat back to someone what they said, not with a spin, not by I think you meant this. Or this is what I think you said, No, this is what you said. Did I get it right? Sorry, just had to say that. Toni Rose Deanon 50:09 No, no, thank you. I thank you again. I continue to get to know you. My brain continues to expand, and it's just so great. I love it. Okay? So you know this is a really different perspective, or different information about project based learning that I think our listeners are like wanting to get, but I think it's so important, because it still does talk about how to make a creative and effective project based learning environment for folks, right? Jorge Valenzuela 50:40 Oh, can, can we give them a little bit of background, though? So my perspective and my ideas, PBL plus is from 10 years of visiting 31 states, 80 plus cities in the United States and coaching online educators from all over the world in project based learning, lots of data collections have informed what I'm saying. I didn't watch videos, and now I'm regurgitating what someone else said. No, this is actually using visible learning research, high yielding strategies, learning the research part, but then learning from educators what they need in order to design well, and then also facilitating with kids. You can find my receipts on YouTube. There's projects of me facilitating with kids, so I've used an amalgam of research of data in order to now understand that there's a few things you need to think about. You need to have a system. But the same thing doesn't work for everyone. But you need your system, you need your model, you need your frameworks, you need your tools. And then, as teachers, you we use them, we adapt, tweak, we collect data, our own data, and then we revise and we implement, Toni Rose Deanon 52:04 yeah, and I was just saying that Jorge, just to say, like, this is such an important conversation that is, that is something that I don't often get to have, right of just like, let's talk about what our ways of being so we can continue creating spaces for students, Jorge Valenzuela 52:20 for for the audience that was unscripted, that was not even any of the questions that were forwarded to me weeks ago. But honestly, though, honestly, that's what people really care about, right, Toni Rose Deanon 52:36 right? And I mean, a lot of the questions that I'd asked you were actually not on our run of show notes, and you've been so great at answering all of them, because I'm like, Oh, I have a follow up question. This is another thing, because I know, you know, I don't know, but I pay attention to what our community needs, and I'm aware of, like, what questions will pop up, or just clarifying questions or concerns or anything like that. And so this is just really important for us to continue evaluating our own emotional intelligence as we create spaces for students to be humans and to be students, right? So I just really wanted to reiterate that part, because I think sometimes human beings and educators in particular, just really want a checklist. Just really want, like I want an implementation or a strategy that I could do right away tomorrow, which we are providing that because Jorge is great, you know, sharing all the things that he's done and also understanding that there's deeper work that needs to happen as well, and it is continuous work. It's not you'll never have an end day of when you're gonna become that person, right, that you want to be. You're always going to improve. So I just wanted to reiterate that so that our listeners can understand. Like, Oh, okay. Like, yes, maybe I do need to ask myself some questions so we have time for like, just one more question. Jorge, do you want to talk about curriculum, alignment, evaluation or collaboration? Which one? Jorge Valenzuela 54:01 It's up to you, whatever you want. Toni Rose Deanon 54:03 Let's talk about evaluation. Because I think this is going to be, I know this is always a heated conversation. Not heated it's a very passionate conversation amongst our educators in our community is, how do you grade something? How do you evaluate? And then, when we're thinking about project based learning, how does that what would you consider worthy of putting in the grade book? Jorge Valenzuela 54:24 All right, so number one, don't abandon the assessments, the assessments you typically use in your class. For example, bi weekly assessments, benchmarks or quizzes. You keep those even in PBL, never grade kids on group work, you give them feedback for how they collaborate. Instead grade them on their individual contributions to the project. I would use a task list. And on the task list, you put the person's name who's responsible for the specific task and a due date. You. They do it or they don't, and that is what goes into a grade book. Me, personally, I like young people developing a product or completing a performance task in drafts, draft one, draft two, draft three. So to keep assessment simple, I have them use a single point rubric, using the learning targets that completely aligns their work they're doing with the learning goals of the project. And because single point rubrics leave all the columns blank except a proficient one, and the proficient one just states the I Can statement, they're able to make notes in the in the blank columns about why their work either isn't meeting the target or exceeds the target. Now, I do have an article. I have a template, and I'm going to put those into the show notes as well, and it's just a simple way of doing assessment each day, or in drafts. Toni Rose Deanon 55:58 Yeah, no, I was going to say, I really like that term, that, that term two of drafts, right? Drafts, one, draft two, instead of saying revision. Because I know sometimes we get a little like, oh my gosh, revision. I don't have time for that. But then it's like, No, we got to have drafts. Because sometimes our kids are not going to get it the first time. So providing the space again to have drafts so they can continue learning, and it doesn't stop the learning that is such a powerful thing. And I also really love this single point rubric. I know that's really hard for me as an English teacher, when I was in the classroom, I always had like, four points. And so I think a single point rubric that is something that I, you know, if I were to ever go back in the classroom, something that I would definitely implement as well, because it does keep it simple. Jorge Valenzuela 56:41 Yeah, it's very simple. It's just the I Can statements. And for educators out there, you know that you begin with the end in mind, here's the product or here's the task that we want them to complete. And so you rewrite your standards into a bunch of actionable learning targets, and if you add them all up that becomes the final output, or the final outcome. So if for each one of them that becomes your proficient column, and the others are blank, then you allow them to explain why it's not meeting the standard, or meeting the target or exceeds a target. I mean, it's simple, the other columns people don't really care about, they're not going to read all that. You know, this is reality and and that's why I think that when we create tools and resources for educators, we have to create after being in the space and seeing what the space needs, and opposed to hearing what the Scholar so and so who's writing from an ivory tower that hasn't been in a classroom and a hot minute is telling you what's best practice, You know, and I'm not hating on that. I'm not, but I like to give people things they need. Toni Rose Deanon 58:08 Yes, I mean, I'm a an advocate of that, of not going into spaces and telling folks what to do. But really, like you said, seek to understand first, rather than seeking to be understood first, right? So that's a really great thing that I'm going to keep in mind too. Jorge Valenzuela 58:24 The late great Dr, Stephen R Covey said that in the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. So Toni Rose Deanon 58:30 I need to reread that book. Clearly. Jorge Valenzuela 58:33 I read that book for 10 years, once a year. Toni Rose Deanon 58:36 Oh, that's good, that's good practice, Jorge Valenzuela 58:39 and that's how I yeah, that's how I learn. I don't read something once I read it and I keep it fresh. Toni Rose Deanon 58:46 I love that so much. Okay, so Jorge, what do you hope to see in the future? What goals do you have Jorge Valenzuela 58:53 short term? I'm just focused on getting my new book published. Is called Instructional Innovation Pro is through solution tree, and my dissertation, finally completed long term, making a bigger impact through podcasting online courses and, of course, my speaking engagements. And I also have a brand new online course called Teaching Pro, mastering your education journey. And I'll put a link about that in the show notes as well. Toni Rose Deanon 59:18 Nice, you've got, yeah, you've got some really hefty goals to achieve, and I know you're going to crush all of them. So okay, well, Jorge, how can our listeners connect with you? Jorge Valenzuela 59:27 You can find me on my social media at George does PBL. That is, j, O, R, G, E, does PBL, and on my website at lifelong learning to find.com Toni Rose Deanon 59:36 beautiful. And we'll put all of that in the show notes y'all, so you can just click on it and follow Jorge, because he really does put some great content out there. Oh, all right, well, Jorge, thank you so much for sharing your experiences and your expertise. Listeners. Remember, you can always email us at podcast@modernclassrooms.org and you can find the show notes for this episode@podcast.modernclassrooms.org 208, we'll have this episode's video uploaded on modern classrooms YouTube channel and transcript uploaded by Friday. So be sure to check back to access those also, we are asking our listeners to leave a review of this podcast has been helpful in supporting you to create a human, centered learning environment through a blended, self paced and mastery based model. It does help other folks find it. Thank you all for listening. Have a great week, and we'll be back next Sunday. Thank you Jorge Jorge Valenzuela 1:00:24 and thank you so much as well. Thank you. Zach Diamond 1:00:31 Thank you so much for listening. You can find links to topics and tools we discussed in our show notes for this episode, and remember, you can learn more about our work at www.modernclassrooms.org and you can learn the essentials of our model through our free course at learn.modernclassrooms.org you can follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram at modernclassproj, that's P, R, O, J, we are so appreciative of all you do for students in Schools. Have a great week, and we'll be back next Sunday with another episode of the modern classrooms project podcast. Transcribed by https://otter.ai