Zach Diamond  0:03  
Welcome to the modern classrooms project podcast each week we bring you discussions with educators on how they use blended, self paced and mastery based learning to better serve their students. We believe teachers learn best from each other, so this is our way of lifting up the voices of leaders and innovators in our community. This is the modern classrooms project podcast.

Toni Rose Deanon  0:28  
Hello and welcome to the modern classrooms project podcast. My name is Toni Rose Deanon they them pronouns, a designated hype person here at MCP, and I am joined by an instructional coach, education consultant and Ed Tech enthusiast who supports schools in building classrooms where both students and teachers can thrive. Drea Aguirre currently works with a wide variety of secondary and alternative education programs in Denver, Colorado, helping educators implement blended, self paced and mastery based learning using digital tools and a whole lot of strategy. Meets heart. Welcome, Drea, hi. 

Drea Aguirre  1:03  
Thank you for having me. 

Toni Rose Deanon  1:04  
I'm I'm just really excited to be in this space with you. And thank you so much for saying yes to the podcast. And before we get started, I know that you and I had met. I think it's earlier in March, I believe, right? And it was at a conference.

Drea Aguirre  1:20  
Yes, I think we were InnEdCo in June together.

Toni Rose Deanon  1:23  
June, not march. Oh my gosh, getting my 

Drea Aguirre  1:25  
you know, still a different world. Like, what year is it? I do not know.

Toni Rose Deanon  1:30  
I just remember it being cold, ish, so I'm like, oh, it's gonna be March.

Drea Aguirre  1:34  
It was also freakishly cold, like we had some really weird cold dips. Don't know what's happening over here.

Toni Rose Deanon  1:42  
Oh my goodness, okay. Well, thank you for that. And before we get started, tell us more about what makes you human, because it's always interesting to see. Like, yes, I just listed out your bio, which, like, amazing. And y'all, I went to drea's session at that conference. It was totally mind blowing. And was like, Oh my gosh, I really have to connect with this human because they're so dope, and so here we are now, months later, having this conversation. So yeah, tell us a little bit more about you. What makes you human?

Drea Aguirre  2:10  
Well, the human part of me is I am a wife. I'm a mom. I have two small humans that I am attempting my best at raising. They keep me on my toes, so they're three and five, and then I also have two dogs, so we have a full house. We're always going and going, and right now, like my favorite part, is every night we have story time, and it is always the same book for both of my kids every night, so we can just recite those my son feels like he can read because he has memorized the entire book. And my daughter is very into very hungry caterpillar. And every time you say that the Caterpillar was still hungry, she goes, Oh no. And it just like, every time, like, gives me the warm fuzzies. I love it, oh.

Toni Rose Deanon  2:58  
And that is so humanizing and so beautiful at the same time. And I'm sure y'all have such a good time acting out all the things during story time, because I do feel like kids that age keep us young, right? And so thank you. Oh my gosh, they do. Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing that that piece of joy with us. All right, so tell us a little bit more about your education, slash MCP journey. I know that you've done a lot in your role, and so I'm curious, like, how did you get into education? How did you find out about us and anything and anything else that you'd like to share with us? Too. Awesome.

Drea Aguirre  3:34  
Yeah. So I'm Drea, hello, and I, right now serve as an ed tech instructional coach, and that changes on like my job description on a monthly basis. So I do a lot with a whole lot of people, but at the core, I work with teachers on implementing technology in instructional ways. And so how can we leverage the tools that we know that students need to be successful 21st Century learners, while also promoting digital balance and recognizing that tools have purposes. And so if it's not serving a purpose, and we could do something better with a different tool, we should go with that tool. I started off my education journey. I always knew that I wanted to be a teacher, and so I went through a traditional teaching program. I ended up at Denver South High School when I first started off in my DPS career. And from there, I said, Wow, high schoolers are big humans, and I think I need something a little bit different. Middle school is where my heart is. It's where I did all of my practicum experience. It's where I did a lot of like short term subbing experience. And so seventh grade is my whole heart. I needed to go back there. And so I went back to a middle school. Sat in that realm for a couple of years, and then I. We ended up getting a grant for technology, and along with it came a digital coach. And I said, what is that? I've never heard of such a thing, except for through like peloton, but that's not what I think that this human does. So I got to connect with this person who helped me make sure that I wasn't just throwing a computer in front of my students and calling them digitally literate, I had someone to brainstorm with, to partner with, and to make sure that I was giving my students the highest quality instruction that I possibly could, using my tools effectively. And so I got really excited about that. There happened to be an opening on this team, and I hopped on it. Thankfully they chose me, and I've been rocking and rolling ever since, and so I've actually been with this team pre pandemic. That was a journey to get all of our district up to speed and ready to be proficient digital teachers in like three weeks. And everybody did so awesome. Everybody gave their absolute best, and that is all we could have asked for. So I've seen everybody rock and roll with it, and now I support a lot of our non traditional schools. So a lot of our pathway schools, our career based centers, any of our like 612, anything that really doesn't fit into our traditional sense of middle school or high school or elementary school. They are my babies, and I work with them, and so we have to be creative a lot, because traditional does not work for these buildings and for these areas, which requires us to be innovative and creative. And I love that.

Toni Rose Deanon  6:43  
Yeah, you said a lot of things here. One of them is seventh grade. A lot of people, when I say I love seventh grade, they're like, What in the world? Seventh graders are hellish. And so I love it when you're like, yes, right, right. I used to tell my students all the time, like, Y'all are the right amount of toxicity for me. So, like, I need, yes, I need y'all to keep me on my toes, and you do. So I appreciate it, and that's why I love it.

Drea Aguirre  7:07  
Here loop me into the seventh grade tea. That is tea that I can handle, right, right? It is typically not life shattering. Things that are happening, though to them. It definitely feels like that. And I think having a person where they can have a space to be human and prepubescent is really important,

Toni Rose Deanon  7:30  
yeah, to show up as themselves, right? Like to show up as they're showing up. And there's, there's the the nurturing space too. Because, I mean, again, seventh grade is really rough. There's lots of hormones, there's lots of things changing, and so

Drea Aguirre  7:42  
well, who are you changes on a daily basis? Right?

Toni Rose Deanon  7:47  
Right? Exactly, exactly. And so you had also mentioned how you're working with schools that are not in that traditional way of like schools, right? Like, for example, the pathways and the Career Center six through 12. And you had said something about like, traditional way of teaching and learning, it hasn't. It doesn't work for those kinds of schools, right? And I also just want to jump on and say traditional learning doesn't work for a lot of the schools, regardless of what it is, right? Because, I mean, again, speaking from my experience, I don't like being lectured, because I don't, I don't really get anything out of it, right? And I and I think it makes me more of a passive learner than an active learner. So I'm always trying to figure out like ways to engage my students, to make it more student centered, and to make it just more where students are enjoying their learning, as opposed to me talking at them. Now mind you, I can talk all day, right? I could talk all day, but that's not the point of teaching and learning. And so I'm so curious, because you've been working with teachers like the whole pre pandemic, right? You said you had three weeks to get teachers, like, ready, or at least feeling like they've got it. I'm curious, what kind of support did you provide for them in three weeks time to get them ready for it? Because I know there was a lot of people like, who are freaking out about this, right? It's so new. It's so like, I've never done this before, and I was also an instructional coach during covid. So for me, it was a lot of I'm going to learn from the teachers, and then I'm going to spread the things that I'm learning from the teachers to others. So that was, like, my role as an instructional coach. But how did you do it in three weeks time and then moving towards the pandemic as well?

Drea Aguirre  9:25  
I don't know how we did it. It was, I think that every single person in education at that point was just like, we got to do something, and was operating in this like, let's go. I saw during the thing that I saw most during the pandemic within Denver Public Schools was actually like this really incredible, like, sense of community that emerged from it of just like us rallying around. Our kids, and being like, what do we need to do to make sure that our our kids find success? And that that was why we had people work in 80 hour weeks. And like doing, transforming their living rooms into classrooms like it, people showed up for their kids, and it was incredible to see. And so with within that, my role was to do whatever I possibly could to bridge some of those gaps. And so for us, at the time, it was a lot of, how can we reach as many people as humanly possible who have who are coming in with zero experience on the tools that we are using, they have very limited Tech experience period because, if we're being honest, pre pandemic, like kids were not one to one. We didn't have devices in every single classroom. It was very, very much pencil paper, unless you were, like an innovative school, or like my school, how I became into this role, you got a grant. We literally, like applied for a program to give us this opportunity, because it wasn't feasible for us to have before this and so you had, not only the teacher aspect, and like training them on the tools that they need to deliver instruction, but on top of that, teaching them how to teach their students how to receive that instruction. And everybody is panicked, because, again, we want to, we always want to show up for our kids, and we want to bring the best for our kids. And so when we get thrown a curve ball like that, of course, it is panic inducing. And so it was. We were a team of six to support the entire district of about 90,000 students, and then all of the staff that goes along with that. So we were very busy. We learned very quickly about, like, the technical capacities of systems, of like, oh, we can't have we're capping out on our Google meets, and we're having to live stream things. And, you know, trial by firing a lot of it, a lot of resource guides, a lot of there are so many just like, old recorded videos of me just going asynchronous materials for days. And I think that that's really when I got over my aversion to, like, hearing myself back recording, having it take, like, 18 years to record a video. Like, I had to get over that, because I had so many videos that I like. Did not have a choice but to record that. Here I am just proof that the more you do it, the more you get comfortable with it. It becomes a much more like, better, fluid thing as you practice it.

Toni Rose Deanon  13:00  
Yeah, and that's, and that's what anything, right? Drea, like, it's like, you know, the first times it's gonna be horrible, it's gonna be the worst, honestly. And then the more you do it, the more you're like, Okay, it's actually kind of dope. Like, this is pretty easy peasy, right? So I think, you know, it's a great reminder, too, for listeners. Like, it may be really painful at first, and then you just get better. But we all did it. Yes, yes, exactly. And so now I'm curious, like, what were some of the practices that y'all implemented during the pandemic that you are still keeping five years later? Because I know there was a big push, okay, the openness, yeah, remember, there was like a big push of, like, no, no, we're gonna go back to what it was before.

Toni Rose Deanon  13:43  
And I remember being like, we can't, we can't do that. We can't go back. So I'm and I'm so I'm curious what, what DPS is, and, like, what were y'all strategies, as far as, like, Okay, we're gonna keep this, we're gonna take away this. And because it's been five years, I can't believe it's been five years.

Drea Aguirre  14:01  
Yes, I know crazy. It is not last year, but one of the things that we were really intentional about, because we felt the exact same way. As restrictions started to get lifted, as students started returning to school and things became more normalized, there was a sense of, I don't ever want to do that again. I had such a terrible experience having to learn all of this stuff that I've taken years and years and years to learn proficiently in a matter of weeks, and then I struggled with it, and like, I had so many poor experience with it that now, even at this point, if you were to tell me, like, yes, but it'll eventually make your life easier, it is not worth it for me to even try, because woof. And for some people, it's literally it is. It has got some like, post traumatic stress related. With it, like they had such a bad experience that when I bring a computer out, they like, will flinch. It's and that's real, because there are a lot of people who we didn't get there are a lot of people that I could not support, and we're just like floating on their own islands trying to make it desperately, like, scanning textbooks into, like, the copy machine to try to, like, get information to kids. I, when we had the momentum was really with, like, the availability to those free apps. And so we had, we saw this huge burst in Ed Tech where all of these companies again showing community, showing up for our kids and also teasing their product at full scale, we got those Esser funds ended, these freemium subscriptions ended, and so then we had to Start making really realistic public school choices about what we could afford to keep as an entire district, what schools could afford to purchase on their own, what is equitable and like. How can we make sure that with our limited resources, we are providing students with what is going to make the most sense to support the most of our tier one students, which leaves a huge gap of our students out. And then you like, factor in the additional like, yes, cool. We had this period of time where everybody's in this active exploration of tools and apps and Ed Tech, and it's 20 tools that can record in your classrooms, and 30 ways that you can use these tools to do this. And it became so overwhelming, and there was such a lack of accountability in the system for us making sure that you are providing safe access to tools, because I will be completely teacher me What is copyright. Don't know her. Teacher me does not care at all about like, what is in the terms of service or the privacy policy, what I care about is the fact that like that is going to do something for my students that I cannot give them myself, and that is all I'm thinking about. And so being in this position has opened up my eyes. Do you know how many privacy policies I have had to read? Too many,

Toni Rose Deanon  17:40  
I was gonna say that's so real, though it's so real, right? Like the teacher me, I'm even thinking about, like, maybe it's not the caring piece, but maybe it's like I did not have the capacity for that. Like that again, 

Drea Aguirre  17:53  
I didn't even know what to care about,

Toni Rose Deanon  17:54  
right, right, right, right. So now, as a coach, you have to read through that to make sure that it aligns with safety precautions and all of that. Like, how does that work?

Drea Aguirre  18:05  
Well, not only that, we have so many more restrictions. And so we had this, like, huge free for all of like, essentially, we had, we had laws, but they weren't enforced at all. And so, like, we were supposed to be reporting, like, the tools that we're using, how we're using them with students, but like, it was a like, please do this. Like, awesome. And I can't tell you how many schools were actually, like, really, on top of, like, reporting their digital tools, how they're using them, keeping their systems updated, because there wasn't any follow up with it. And so then what happened is we passed a series of laws, including data privacy laws and accessibility laws, that have really restricted the tools that we can legally use in this district, which has been so frustrating for so many people, because all of the sudden those tools that you had been using for years you now cannot use with your students, and there is nothing that I can do to fix that, unless you would like to go to the company and say, like, hey, you need to sign our data privacy agreement with the legal team, or you need To be WCAG 2.2 compliant. Otherwise, there's not I can't do anything when legal has made a decision and said, like, stamp, turn it off. Last time I argued with legal, it was not a good time. So I just avoid doing that. It's my recommendation. Live your best life, yeah.

Toni Rose Deanon  19:39  
And I was also thinking too, because I work with teachers all across the nation, right? And I also work with a lot of ed tech organizations, and so our teachers are advocating like, Hey, y'all don't align with our rules and privacy and all of that good stuff, so Can y'all do something about it? And so I think it's really great that teachers are doing that, but I know that that's like an extra step for them, right? But this. This is really fascinating to hear about the restrictions. But again, it's, it's for kids safety, right? Like 

Drea Aguirre  20:07  
it all boils down to, like, yes, we, and I feel the biggest pushback from my CTE programming, because, yeah, at the at their core, CTE teachers want to deliver industry authentic opportunities to their students, which, like, yes, absolutely, I want to be able to take this multimedia class and then walk into Sony like that is, that's the goal. But then I'm telling them, like, you can't use that, that industry level thing that all of like the big companies use, can't do it. They don't meet our requirements XYZ, and now you cannot use that with students. And so those are hard conversations.

Toni Rose Deanon  20:55  
Yeah, I was gonna say that's a whole conversation in itself, right? Because then there's managing of emotions. Because, like you said, there's like, that griefing, that grieving process, right? Like, I'm going to be angry because I can't do this, and now I'm going to feel hopeless, because, what do you mean? And then there's like, Okay, now I'm going to try to negotiate. So there's definitely a lot of feelings with that. And I also wanted to point out to Draya, you had mentioned, you know how ed tech tools can be overwhelming, right? Like, there's so many, and you had said already in the in the beginning, like, use the tools that you already know, use the tools that your districts already provide for you, so that then there won't be any kind of tension moving forward, or whenever you want to use something, right? So now, um, I guess I'm just, I'm curious with how, okay, I'm curious, and we're thinking about teachers who don't have a lot of tech experience, because there are a lot of teachers with no tech like, with limited Tech experience, or at least just doing the bare minimum, because they don't know how to expand right, or they don't have the capacity for it. How do you how do you support teachers to make sure that they're not getting overwhelmed? Because I know sometimes when I go to ed tech conferences, specifically Drea, I am neurodivergent, and if you tell me 30 ways to do something, I'm not listening. I'm not going to that actually, because I only need two, two really good ways to do something.

Drea Aguirre  22:17  
There's already a lot going on up here, all right. I don't have room for 30 so I'm right there with you. And I think that that was popular for time to show people that, like, hey, there are options you don't have to stay with. Like this one tool that isn't very good when there are six other tools that probably do it better however you get into the light. Okay, but then which one do I use? And so that's where I I feel strongly about instead of having to learn how to use eight different platforms, if we can learn one platform that does those eight things, that's going to be way more advantageous for us, because we can really dig deep into that platform and focus on, like, what we are there to focus on not learning a new tool, 

Toni Rose Deanon  23:08  
because that's like a whole cognitive overload, right? I mean, even when we give teachers, I feel like as adults, right? We love options, but we don't want too many options, because then there's that paralysis of trying to figure out, Okay, which one do I go with? And so I really like that approach, too. Of like, let's, let's think about, let's be more intentional with the tools that we use. Like, yes, cool. This one tool could do this, but what about this other tool that can do three things, right? Three different things. So that's really, really great. And so, you know, we're talking about ed tech tools, we're talking about digital learning, we're talking about all of that good stuff. So I'm really interested, how did you come across MCP? Because I remember walking up to you and being like, hey, introducing myself. I work for modern classrooms, and like, trying to, you know, get you trying to introduce the concept. And you were like, Oh no, I already know y'all like, oh, bet, even better. So like, how did you come across? Tell us a little bit more about that.

Drea Aguirre  23:57  
So actually, I What happened was I was working with one of our network directors, and so one of our directors, who was formerly over one of the pathway connections of schools, she had found y'all in your mentorship program, and was so jazzed about it and super interested in it, and they actually took three schools that were going to pilot this program with their all pathway schools. And so they all have like different challenges that they are going to see in terms of, like, FaceTime with students, how students need to interact with content to be successful. And so they're, again, we're serving this population of students who is they're not in these comprehensive traditional schools for a reason, because, like that style is not working out for them. And so they have gone and like we are at the point where they have transitioned to a. A full new learning space to get something different. And so we can't just, like, keep giving them the same thing, especially knowing that, like, we have kids in these schools who are coming in at different times of the year with different exposure to different subjects and different proficiency levels. And so you, I don't know how you would successfully run a math class and say, like, all right, kiddos, we're on Unit Three, Lesson B, and if you don't know what we're talking about, Sucks to suck. Like, I don't, I don't know how we're doing that. And so what really, like drew me in to getting as, like, passionately involved in this project was just like, how unapologetically student centered MCP is. And like, Y'all have so many strategies that already align with the coaching that I was doing that everything was just like, Yes, this is what I've been saying. Guys Like, hello. Someone made a class on it already.

Drea Aguirre  26:04  
And so having that top down support from leadership, and not having to do like the grassroots, like me, convincing teachers that this is not, I'm not wasting their time, that this is not something where, like it's going to benefit me, and I'm looking for some data from it, like, this is for them, it's going to help them. And that takes a level of trust that takes time to establish,

Toni Rose Deanon  26:30  
yeah, that's that's really, really dope. And so now I'm curious, like, the team of six, because you said there's a team of six, right? Are they? Did they also go through MCP and, like, figure out what that means, or is it just you who's doing this? Like, how does that work? Are y'all collaborating with each other? And then how did you choose the three schools to pilot?

Drea Aguirre  26:48  
So I'm actually pretty out of the loop with, like, how the whole like, MCP connection got started in that cohort, and Cobb is the person who set that up and put it together, and she is just like a magnet for innovative ideas that are really going to support students, like she is all about, like, clearly, doing what has already been done is not working. And so what can we do to make sure that our students find success, regardless of where they're at, and how do they find success intentionally and not just, like, they did it, and we don't really know how it happened, but they did it. And so, like, how do we make it intentional, so that we know what we're doing? We can make it wider scale, so that the most kids get the most impact from it. So, yeah, it was super exciting to me. And when she was talking about, like, getting really excited about the the how of these systems, I started to get excited about. I hear it right now. I hear the teachers saying, but we can't do that. We don't have that tool, or we don't have this resource. And so I wanted to take away that barrier. And so I wanted to really support teachers and like, okay, cool, you're going to modern classroom to learn the strategies. I'm not teaching you how to make a mastery check you are then coming back to me and I'm going to teach you the tools in DPS that you can use to build that mastery check whether it's to support you planning it, whether it's to provide it to students. But that's what we're going to work on in our space together while you get the like core content piece from modern classroom.

Toni Rose Deanon  28:40  
Oh, I really love that. It's a really great way of, like, collaboration. And just like, I don't have to do it all, like, you're gonna get your learning from this, and then we can continue having that conversation so I can better support you. Oh, that's so beautiful. That's great.

Drea Aguirre  28:55  
And it gives them an authentic opportunity to to, like, try it out and get something in return. And so that's another incentivized piece of this is that I've built it into a system where, on successful completion, my teachers not only get the credit hours, it's 45 credit hours towards recertification that they can use. But nobody cares about that. What they really care about is that it's three credits towards a lane change, and so they can use it as like education that goes towards lane changes. And so it's an internal system. They don't have to pay for college or college credits, but they still get to engage in the learning. And so again, we're trying to reduce barriers to like, I can't afford to go back to school. I've got two young kids, but what I can do is engage in a PDU, and you're going to reward me for it by allowing me to use that to change lanes. So it's a really cool system,

Toni Rose Deanon  29:55  
yeah, that's really clever too, right? Like a great way to incentive. Buys and motivate teachers to like, hey, let's try this new thing together, 

Drea Aguirre  30:03  
and to get them to stay Yeah, too, yes. And we want to keep our teachers I like, I want this to be more than like, hey, get some free credits, because I've seen a lot of courses that do that. I want this to be like, a really meaningful experience. And so it is. It's work. It's the equivalency, as if you were to take a grad level course, like a three credit grad level course, that is the workload that you're you're looking at, but you are going to get so much out of it. And it's because, like, there's always this disconnect between professional development and then implementation. And so if I go in and I show a school how to use EdPuzzle, that's awesome. Now they all know how to make an EdPuzzle video, but I haven't given them time to actually make one themselves, to actually figure out where that would work best in their upcoming lesson structures. And so then it just becomes this cool tool that they know about, but they don't have time to really dig into and figure out if that's really going to work for them or not. And that's where I come in too. In like we need to reframe our professional development with teachers so that we are giving them the tools that they need to be successful. And if you are in leadership and you're not using your staff meetings as an opportunity to explicitly model you're missing out on a huge opportunity. And so take advantage of these times to show your teachers that the things that you're asking them to do, one, they work, and two, they have they there's a reason why I'm asking you to do them like they have impact. So not only are you getting the content you need, I have to train you on how to proctor C mass. There's no way around that. But do I have to do it by like, talking to you for 50 minutes about C mass regulations and policies. Oh, my goodness gracious, no. That's like you telling me to read out of a physics textbook, which, if you like reading out of physics textbooks that was no burn on you. Yep, you live your best life. It is just not for this girly right here, yeah?

Toni Rose Deanon  32:17  
And, I mean, you know, you, you said modeling, right? The why piece of it, it's it that is really the foundation of, quote, unquote, good teaching, right? Like, that's what we want to do for our students. So why don't we do that for our teachers? And I think that's like a things that sometimes we forget, right? Just because, oh, we're adults, we could do this thing however we want to present it, or, you know, give it, but the same time, there's that really, that, that missing piece of like, no, let's model it like we really don't have to talk at teachers. And then we get upset when the teachers talk at students. It like trickles down, right? And I know, like that session again, I still think about your session at this conference, because it was, like, the PD, that doesn't suck, right? Like, how to create a PD or something like that. Like, I was just like, Yes, I'm gonna go there, because I feel like we're all gonna we're gonna be on the same page. And the things that you were saying, I was like, Well, yeah, duh, of course, but I just assumed that everyone knew it, but from the reactions that people were saying in that that space, because it was like an eight o'clock session, and your room was packed, so right, there was a need for it, right? Let's have this conversation to make sure that PD is a lot more intentional, so that learning for students is a lot more intentional, right? And so I really love that part too, where you were just like, No, we're gonna make this engaging. Here are different ways to make it more engaging. And when you say, too, they don't have time to create, to process. I think what you did right in the session, and things that I do as well, when I lead, when I lead learning experiences as well, is like we have 55 minutes together. I'm going to talk to you for 510 minutes. The rest of that. I need you to create. I need you to explore. I need you to process. Because that's the time that we're giving our teachers to be able to do that, because I know in my teaching career, there was a lot of times. There were a lot of times where I was talked at and they were like, okay, figure it out on your own. And then I go back into my classroom and I talk at them and I'm like, okay, figure it out on your own. And it's like, but who has time

Drea Aguirre  34:16  
the amount of times that I hear will just get better at classroom management. You just need better classroom management. Yes, what does that mean? Yeah, you cannot just tell a teacher that one that there are so many reasons why you cannot do that, but like, that's essentially what a lot of leadership does. And I think that one of the reasons for that, that I've come across is there's a fear behind if I model strategies that I would use for my students, I'm going to make my teachers feel like I'm treating them like children. And I don't think that that is necessary. Those aren't two like some. Symbiotic things there are. I've seen it happen where, like someone is very clearly modeling strategies, and it is making people feel disrespected as an adult and as like an adult learner. And so it's balancing these strategies that we know work period. But just like we wouldn't give that the same assignment to a kindergartner, I'm going to adjust appropriately for my age group, and I know that I have adult learners. So am I going to give them a text that is for a first grader? No, I can probably still give them the LEAP handbook, yep, and have them like reference that guide. However, I am going to model how I'm not just throwing a text at them and saying, hope it sticks. I'm going to give them some guiding questions, I'm going to check in, I'm going to have a check for understanding, and I'm going to follow up with the people who need some extra support, who did not fall into meeting that tier one instruction.

Toni Rose Deanon  36:06  
It's a differentiation piece, also, right? Like, again, we are always talking about differentiation, but we're not really taught how to do it, and we don't see it in action often as adults, as teachers. And so it's really fascinating when I go into sessions, or when I go into learning experiences for adult learners, and I'm like, okay, is this going to be a passive learning, or is this going to be an active learning? Because I'd much prefer active learning. If it's passive, I'm going to go. I have a choice. I'm going to walk out. I don't want, I don't want to do this right

Drea Aguirre  36:34  
as soon as I hear I know this isn't best practice, but I will flip a table and leave. I can't handle it. I can't I can't do it because, do you know what it is? It would never be acceptable for me as a teacher, for you, as my evaluator, to come in and be like, hey, you know what you're about to see is not best practice. Yep, you're so right, but it's gonna happen. People would lose their minds. And so for any sort of like leadership to feel like that is an appropriate way to start anything. No, it makes me so upset.

Toni Rose Deanon  37:16  
Yeah, see like you and I are on the same page with this, and so I you know, you, you shared this core syllabus with us, and I'm so excited about it. How did you come up with this? How did you share it with the teachers that you're working with? And then, what were the risk, the responses of teachers when they got this and listeners, we're gonna, we're gonna link this as well, so you don't have to do any googling or anything, but you'll, you'll see what we're talking about,

Drea Aguirre  37:40  
yeah, so, I mean, the first thing I did is I connected with an and I said, Hey, we need, like, some sort of format where we're giving us space for teachers to really do this. Because, like, we saw what happened in our initial pilot of this where, you know, we said, hey, teachers, you have this amazing opportunity. We're going to go to a school in a different state, like, look at how they do things, look at how they run their classrooms. We're going to come back, we're going to debrief, and you then you have the opportunity to work with a mentor to really, like, get this off the ground and running. But then, because there wasn't a whole lot of like structure follow through, just like if you were to give a student in class a project and say, I would love for you to go learn this. And then they say, all right, Miss. And then you never get any assignments turned in. That's the same thing that happened, weird. So what I did is I had a conversation. I said, Hey, if we want to get this actually going, we need to do it right, and so we need to make this a course for teachers to engage in as students, where they're developing the skills that they need to and part of that is about intentionally modeling this whole course, I have scoped out to be really intentional about showing them how they can use their learning management system, how they can use some of those completion rules and like some of the features that are built in. And while I'm not saying like All right now we're going to learn about this specific tool right here, just them having exposure to it and seeing like, I don't even know it could do this. I had no idea that this was an option that allows you to say, hey, I want some follow up on that. I want to learn more about that piece. And then that's where I can connect either with you individually. We can do a independent project together, I can connect you with the coach that supports your school. We can move forward and figure out, like, what's going to work best for that? But yeah, we needed a structured way to do this, and a way that gave them some incentive, because teachers are busy. They have so much to do, we expect. So much of our teachers, we expect them to be curriculum designers, assessment writers, masterful deliverers of instruction, people who can analyze data and generate high quality feedback in a timely manner, and then on top of that, connect with parents, connect with the community, connect with your students, but make sure you have some self care in there. It's too much. We are asking people to do too much, and so what my job is, especially as a part of someone in central office, is to narrow down your tools to help you find success like because there's, I can't just throw all the help guides at you and say, like, all right, I gave you your resources. You don't have time for that, and so I need to be specific about the tools that I am showing you and how to use, how to use them, and the impact that they might have, while also giving you the flexibility of saying that doesn't work for me. Yeah, I need to figure out a different way to do this.

Toni Rose Deanon  41:06  
And this is just so fascinating. I mean, kudos to you for reflecting, right of being like, hey, that was great. We did the whole thing, and then it was kind of like a free for all. Okay, y'all do this. Good luck. And like you said, there's a need for scaffolding. There's a need for guidance, because then that's one less thing that teachers have to make a decision on, right? Like, oh, do I want to work on this now I don't really know when it's due, so I'll just do it later. I'll just do it later. I'll just do it later. And I love this because it's so clear. And, you know, I'm all about like to be clear is to be kind so that that everyone knows what is what are the expectations? What do I need to do to be successful, and what are the guidelines for it? I mean, y'all, we have prerequisites here. And, like, you were real clear, like, no prior training is required, right? Because, like, that's the thing, because people are gonna say, like, I got you, I can't do that, right? So you're, like, no prerequisites. And then you added, like, text readings and instructional resources. There's the course requirements and policies, attendance and participations. And then you have your assignments and the types of assessment, and then what kind of art type of assignments, and then the data collection, like you really broke this down, as well as a grading, evaluation and feedback, I think what I also really love, because, again, you're doing such a great job of modeling this for your teachers again, clarity, right? We want to be transparent with where the learning is going to go, how it's going to go, and why it's going to why it's going the way that it's going, right? You have your pace. You have your own pacing tracker here. Like, honestly, you're just like, hey, week one, this is what you're doing. This is the date. Here the topic and the objectives. Here's like, the section that you need to do before we meet. And then another thing that I love is that you said here the hours that it may take, right? So then that allows me as an adult to be like, Okay, this is going to take five hours, so I want to make sure that I have an hour in this day, an hour on this day, so that there's that time management, prioritizing kind of deal, right? Like, I love that part, because then now I'm like, Okay, I know it's due on this day. We're going to meet on this day. Now I got to figure out my executive, my own executive functioning skills, because that's what we're going to ask our students to do when they do self pacing well.

Drea Aguirre  43:19  
And part of that is to like, and this is something I'm really clear on when we start the course, and like my expectations around like participation and quality of work that you're turning in blah blah blah syllabus day, one of the things that I really make sure to mention is that if you are, if you're struggling to either get something turned in, or to, like, make these connections, or figure out, like, how this is working, or something is says that it should be taking five hours, but I've already spent 15 on it, check in. Please. Yes. If you're like, man, it's it's been five hours, and I've just done part 1.5 like, friend, please let me help you. Because, like, there's either a disconnect or, like, you need a different level of support, and that is okay, because, like, if you are exceeding those by a lot, then, like, we want to work on some executive functioning. Like, what are we spending so much time on? Yeah, and some of it might be genuine. Some of it might be well, this section actually took me twice as long because I wanted to go through and, like, really dig into using this tool and figuring it out. And so that's why this one took me longer. Sometimes that's going to happen, and everybody's at their different like, pace in learning what takes someone one hour, might take someone else 10, and so, like, recognizing that there is flexibility in that. But if something's taken. You like, either 30 minutes when it should be taking five hours, or it's taking, like, way too much time. That's a checkpoint for me, as the instructor, to say, like, Huh? Flag. Either I'm way off on my pacing or I need to provide some additional scaffolds and supports. 

Toni Rose Deanon  45:20  
Yeah. And you know, I again, quote, unquote, best practices for students as well, right? Like, check in. Let's advocate for our learning. Like, if something is really infuriating, I don't need you to sit there in your fury and then not get the learning that I need you to get. So there's that advocating piece too. And I think something that I really enjoy about your course syllabus, Drea, is that it's like, once a month, kind of check in, except, except for April. You have two, two things that are due in April. And so this is really like, it's it's time. It's not like, Okay, we went over this. Now you got to do it tomorrow. It's like, no, no. Process it. Let's do this part, first, play around with it, see how it goes. And then now we're adding another thing, right? It's like moving 

Drea Aguirre  46:06  
and maybe it makes sense for you to do this in two weeks, yes or like, and I want, I've purposely made these assignments to be like, Hey, not only are these checks for understanding, so that I know that you know how to do this within your ecosystem, but also use this please. And so like, I'm very explicit with like, use an upcoming lesson, use something that you are currently working on, yes, because then it also goes into the like, I'm not trying to sit here and give you busy work. I want you to actually use this stuff. And even though sometimes we are going to dig way deeper than you would go on a normal basis, I'm going to have you pick apart some of these mastery checks and really like get meta with it. It is because I want you to make sure that you're hitting every single part of that, not to say that every time you have to write all of those things out,

Toni Rose Deanon  47:02  
right, right? But it's, it's a great reflection piece, right? Especially, especially when it comes to veteran teachers who've been teaching for a while and we've just been doing the same thing over and over again. So like, why would I reflect? Why would I take the time to reflect and then to really understand? Like, Oh, okay, I need to shift, because this is probably not going well for my group of kids this year, right, like, or even for the semester,

Drea Aguirre  47:24  
you know. And the other thing I've the other thing I've seen about, like, my more veteran teachers, is that a lot of them actually just haven't been authentically exposed to good teaching practices in their own experiences, and so like when they were in K 12 education, it was compliance based. You sit down, you listen, you do what you're supposed to, and if you are good at listening, you get an A.

Toni Rose Deanon  47:56  
If you're good at pretending to listen, 

Drea Aguirre  47:58  
if you're good at pretending to listen, you get an A correct. And so how? How do we expect them, if that wasn't their education experience, we know that higher ed is typically even a step further behind public ed in terms of their teaching practices, just because of their focal points, is more on research than on education, which is different in a K 12, it's just a different realm, different environment, different focal points. But like we know, that if you didn't get it in your K 12 experience, it is probably pretty unlikely that you would get exposed to it at a high quality level in your postgraduate experience. And then if you don't ever go to meetings or have a chance to attend conferences with high quality sessions, you have never been authentically exposed to what good teaching looks like. And so for me to come in and just say with my words like I Pinky promise that it works. Is very different than me coming in and saying, Hey, I have an opportunity to show you what this looks like. I am showing you what it looks like to host class where people don't have to come if you don't come to the live session, I am not coming to light your house on fire. Like, there's gonna be a recorded version. There are different ways for you to interact and engage, but like, what are you going to miss from that, the collaborative experience? And so how can I model the fact that, like, you should your in person, class time? I'm I'm trying to give you ways to free that up so that that is the time where you get to teach. You get to make connections with your students. You get to know where they're at. You get to facilitate small group. You get to facilitate labs and like, do all of the fun, cool things when, before. You are having to spend your time with them, just like writing out notes from the textbook that is not something that they need you for. And so having a mindset of like, what, what do my kids need me for? And what can they do with the help of asynchronous resources? Can they read? Am I reading to them during class? No, I'm having them read independently or with their tools. And so how can I leverage the time that I see them, which I already know is so limited, to make them want to come to school and also make sure that I'm having the significant and, like, authentic touch points with them that I need to drive their instruction successfully.

Toni Rose Deanon  50:49  
Yes, all the intentionality, right? Like, there's so much intentionality behind that, and I think with self pacing too, it really shines a light on teachers who really leverage the classroom relationships, right, versus the ones who have no relationships with students. And so, because I've heard stories too, of like, oh, it's self pacing, but like, what am I supposed to do now? Pull small groups, have conversations with students, like, get to know them as humans, and get to know like, their strengths, because there's so much more time for that now. And so, yeah, I love this, this, this, this focus of, like, modeling and and making sure that that our teachers feel nurtured and loved and like, there's also that understanding and grace and compassion of like, hey, you've never seen this, and that's okay. But now I have this opportunity to show you and that we can experience this thing together, and I think, like, what I love also, you're doing some really cool stuff. First of all, right? Because I remember, like, talking to you, and you're like, Oh yeah, I'm planning this whole thing out for teachers, and now to see it in fruition. Like, how beautiful. Like, kudos to you for really sitting there and reflecting and thinking about what your teachers need. Because, again, that's something we want our teachers to do too, right? With their students, realizing, like, what are the things that my students, which are your teachers going to say? And then how can I make sure that there's no barrier, that that teachers can still access all the things that they need to access? Like that, the excuses aren't flowing, right? They're like, Oh, here's an excuse. Well, here's a solution. Like, I've already thought it all out, like, this is actually really cool. That's you being responsive, that's you being intentional, and that's you knowing the teachers that you've worked with, knowing your district, which I think is so beautiful. So thank you so much for that, and thank you for, like, asking all of my questions. I know a lot of those questions weren't even on our run of show notes, I was just kind of like, Oh man, I have so many, like, really great follow up questions now and then. Of course, I just really wanted to focus on this course syllabus that you created, because you based it off of our free course, which is something that we want all everyone to do, because it's free. We love free, and then you just made it so much more structured and intentional. So like, amazing work. Drea, this is great.

Drea Aguirre  53:05  
Thank you. Thank you. Well, thank you guys for building the free course, because I it would have been such a insane lift for me to have to also go back in and like, do the actual like, here's how you do this. Here's, here's why mastery checks are important, and here's, and it's also different coming from me versus coming from, like, a network and series of people who back this, which it's research back. It's not Drea saying, like, i i Pinky promise that it works or like it works for me, so it's gonna work for you, because that's another thing that I want to get out of is like coaching should not be me teaching you how to teach, like I taught, because, if anything else, kids are so so good at picking up when you are not being authentic, and so you cannot come into a space pretending to be someone else, because, like, they'll know that off the bat, and then, like that, in itself, deteriorates your relationship from the start, because they don't see you as someone they can trust because They don't know, like, what's going on, and you're just giving off weird vibes. And so if you can take strategies and make them you like, that's what I want,

Toni Rose Deanon  54:30  
yeah, and that's the thing too. Like, we always say, there's so many right ways to implement this model. There's not like, one right way. It's like, you are the expert of your students and what they're capable of doing. Now we want you to also reflect and make sure that you are coming in there believing that your students can do it. Because I think this is another thing too. Of like, you have to believe that your students are capable of self pacing before you even like implement it. Because if you already think in your brain that they're not going to be able to do it, your kids are going to meet those expectations, right? And. And so there's that whole reflection piece as well. And so, oh my gosh. This is so great. This is so great. I feel like your teachers are well taken care of, and I'm so excited for them. And then that means that their students are also excited, right? And I always say too, like I got to see, I got to be in a middle school today, Drea, and it was so beautiful. I miss middle school so much. And like you said, I just show up there and I just I am authentically myself. So there was, like, one point where I was with a an eighth grade group, and I was like, You know what, I'm just gonna stand awkwardly here, if that's okay. Y'all like, I'm just listening in in the conversation. They're like, Oh, cool. Why don't you come sit down so that it won't be so awkward, like standing there. And I think that's it, like I just need to show up as myself and just be open to learning and be curious and be, you know, compassionate and give lots of grace when I'm I'm learning a new thing, I'm hearing what the students have to say as well, and like not taking things personally, because I think that that one's really important too, right? Because, again, when we shift to more self pacing, there's going to be pushback and resistance, and that's okay. That's totally okay. And that's because it's not what we're used to. So it's very much human nature to push back when it's something that is uncomfortable.

Drea Aguirre  56:12  
I think it's you're also making your students use more brain power. Yes, there's a bigger cognitive lift, yes. And so that was my I that was my biggest hurdle in terms of, like, pushing for a more self paced model when I was in the classroom, was that getting over that humped of, like learned helplessness, or like having those like dependent learners, like they are waiting For me, as the adult in the room, to come in and tell them what the answer is yes, when my goal is for them to critically think through using information so that they can come to their own conclusions. And that is a different level of like cognitive thought process, 

Toni Rose Deanon  57:00  
right? Exactly. And, you know, again, like the systems that we've had in education before, like our students don't feel confident, right? They don't feel confident in making mistakes and speaking up and advocating for themselves. And so it's like, when we shift to that, they're gonna try you they're gonna be like, what you mean, right? And that's okay. You know, a teacher shared today, like something that she's realized that she's something that she's realized when it comes to self pacing, is that she's really now understanding which students are like, just kind of sitting there cruising and not doing the work, versus the students who are actually really trying and struggling, right? Like she had a bigger picture of, like, the types of learners her students were because of self pacing. And I was like, Yes, that's how it should be, right? Like, we need to know where our babies are so we can. We can help them up and support them and empower them, and do all of those things.

Drea Aguirre  57:54  
Yes, because there's a huge difference between I can't and I won't Yes, and they tell us different pieces of information. None of them are bad, but they're going to tell me different stuff

Toni Rose Deanon  58:04  
exactly, exactly. So, okay, well, thank you so much for your time and your energy and your stories and your experiences. Jaya, I would love to touch base again to see how this school year goes with the structures that you provided for teachers, just because I know it's gonna be it's gonna be so fun, it's gonna be so it's gonna be a learning experience.

Drea Aguirre  58:25  
It's gonna be a blast. Everybody's gonna have such a good we're all in it together. We're all learning together. It's my first rodeo, it's their first rodeo. We're all just gonna have a really good time. But honestly, like, I'd love to connect once I have some data, gotten together, from my participants, from students, and just like, have a some sort of a snapshot, at least, to show, like, where our teachers are, how they're engaging, what they're liking, what they're struggling with, and all that jazz. 

Toni Rose Deanon  58:57  
Yeah, and an aspire to do for me would be to have you back on the podcast with a teacher and a student to talk about this process with you as well, because how dope with that conversation go? Yeah? So cool. So keep keep an eye out for that too. Of like, Okay, who do I want to have a conversation with on the podcast? And we'll definitely plug it. Yeah, we'll definitely do that, because we do love our podcast. Has to come back and, like, share what their wins and their celebrations and things that they learn throughout that process too. So again, thank you so much for your time and energy. Drea, this was so lovely. I'm looking forward to continuing to collaborate with you and to learn more about just all the things that's happening this year. So I really appreciate it. 

Drea Aguirre  59:37  
Yes. Thank you so much for having me on I had a blast here. I've always had a blast knocking with you.

Zach Diamond  59:47  
Thank you so much for listening. Listeners. Remember, you can always email us at podcast, at modern classrooms.org, and you can find the links to topics and tools we discussed, as well as more info on this. Week's announcements and events in the show notes for this episode at podcast dot modern classrooms.org We'll have this episode's recap and transcript uploaded to the modern classrooms blog on Friday, so be sure to check there or check back in the show notes for this episode if you'd like to access those. And if you enjoy our podcast, then it's been helpful in supporting you to create a blended, self paced, mastery based learning environment. We would love if you could leave a review that does help other folks find our podcast. And of course, you can always learn the essentials of our model if you want to go beyond the podcast through our free course at Learn dot modern classrooms.org and you can follow us on social media at modern class proj, that's P, R, O, J, we are so appreciative of all the hard work you do for students and schools. Have a great week, and we'll be back next Sunday with another episode of the modern classrooms project podcast. 

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