Zach Diamond  0:03  
Welcome to the Modern Classrooms Project podcast. Each week, we bring you discussions with educators on how they use blended, self paced and mastery based learning to better serve their students. We believe teachers learn best from each other. So this is our way of lifting up the voices of leaders and innovators in our community. This is the Modern Classrooms Project podcast.

Monte Woodard  0:28  
Hi, everyone, and welcome to episode 160 of the Modern Classrooms Project podcast. My name is Monte, she/her pronouns, and I'm a modern classroom mentor, and middle school science teacher in Washington, DC. And today I'm joined by a high school special education teacher. Hi, Maddie, how are you today?

Maddie Richer  0:43  
Hi, I'm doing well, how are you? 

Monte Woodard  0:46  
Doing pretty well just, you know, get ready to wrap up week three of school. So you know, it's been busy time. Oh, my gosh, I always forget how exhausting the first couple of weeks of school are. And my body is just now adjusting. And I've been at work for five weeks. So three weeks of school, Ed. So just now getting adjusted, I feel you. So tell us more about who you are and how you started your modern classroom journey.

Maddie Richer  1:12  
Sure. So I'm in my 10th year working as a special education high school teacher in New York City. I've bounced around a bit from public to charter to private and back to public schools. My I've done some co teaching some self contained some pullouts, my current position is working in the horizon program, which it serves autistic students and an eight to one to one setting. So eight students, one teacher and at least one para. And so during the 2021 to 2022 school year during the pandemic, but like when we had returned to in person learning, I was feeling really frustrated trying to meet everybody's needs, which you know, was always really hard as a special education teacher, that's always our job. But during the pandemic, it became even harder because their students and teachers were absent so often, either because they were sick, or their family members were sick, or they had been exposed. And so I was finding it really difficult to appropriately differentiate for students and make sure that they got what they needed, but also gave them enough grace and you know, during difficult times in their lives. And also, they get a lot of related services that they're always getting pulled out for speech for ot for counseling, all these really important things. But that made it really hard to like, hold down the fort in class. And then one of my administrators shared an article about the modern classrooms project. And I was really intrigued about the possibilities that I might be able to open up for me. Specifically, the self pacing and the sort of the differentiation with the must do should do and aspire to do. Options that kind of allows students to choose their own adventure at different points in the year depending on, you know, whatever else is going on in their lives, really felt like it was like opening up a new world because now it meant that my students if they were home, because they were exposed to COVID, but they weren't actually feeling sick, then they could access the materials online, and they could continue to work at their own pace. And it also meant that if students were going through a hardship, they could choose to just do the master few assignments do the bare minimum for now. And then when they were in a better place, they could push themselves to do more. And so now I'm I continue to use it now. And it's still really serving those functions really well.

Monte Woodard  3:40  
Yeah, I think we got a huge influx of people during COVID. Because I think we were all in very similar places. I actually started modern classroom like the year before COVID. Um, and, you know, so I'm always just very fascinated with people's journey into like, the modern classroom realm, because it is just so vastly different, especially now in 2023. So this month, we're talking about SEL, which for those that don't don't know, it stands for Social emotional wellness. So Maddie, just curious what is, you know, SEL and why is it crucial in today's educational landscape?

Maddie Richer  4:13  
Cool. So social emotional learning, the way I would define it is that it's talking about explicit teaching and practicing of social skills and emotional intelligence. So, you know, I think a lot about how adults live and how students live, and how as adults, we all know that we don't perform our best work when we're feeling overwhelmed, or we're having mental health crisis, or we feel like our needs aren't being addressed or that we're not being listened to. We know that we have to take breaks, we know that we have to advocate for ourselves. We know that we have to practice yoga, go for walks, go, whatever it is that calms us down. And we know that sometimes we have to have difficult conversations about people that we're in relationships with. And all of that is true for kids as well. But sometimes that has gotten overlooked. But in kids school experiences, but kids experience all those emotions as well. And they have less experience than we do. So they don't always, like have those skills intuitively, they get stressed, they go through breakups, they have traumatic experiences, they have chronic illness, they have mental illness, so many things going on in their lives. And so to me, Sel is making space in the education system to, like, spend time on teaching kids how to cope, and how to communicate their needs, so that they're able to prioritize their social emotional needs, which is, you know, a prerequisite to academic performance.

Monte Woodard  5:42  
So, is SEL something that you've studied? Or is it something that you just stumbled across that you saw the need for it? And so you took it, you know, took the time to learn the things that were necessary to help, you know, students feel, you know, more acclimated in your class?

Maddie Richer  5:56  
That's a good question. Um, so, I think that because I'm a special education teacher, and I've worked with a lot of students who get who have been, like, classified as emotionally disturbed, it kind of came up a lot in my early years, like when I was in grad school, and like, learning about supporting students, not necessarily like, in a formal way, but just like that always would come up. And then like doing IEP meetings, and, you know, you kind of learn as you go. But also I have, I've have worked at schools, where they'll have an SEL, professional development series, they'll have the guidance counselor, to talk to teachers about SEL, that kind of thing. But I do think that like, a lot of this has to do with what teachers choose to seek out. It's not sometimes some schools are prioritizing it, and others aren't. So it's really about like, what the teachers decide to spend their professional development and like, further learning on.

Monte Woodard  7:00  
And so for those that might not really know much about SEL, what are some ways in which, like, low state ways that teachers can, you know, integrate, you know, SEL into their classrooms, as well as you know, ways that you have use it in your modern classroom?

Maddie Richer  7:16  
Yeah, totally. So I think it can look as big and as small as it needs to in, in a sense. So, for example, I start my class every day with a check in where I ask students to go around the circle and share how they're feeling for what works for my population is I have like, a color wheel, red to green, and with, you know, like orange and yellow in the middle, and ask them to say what color their feeling and why. And what that does is it communicates to students that I care about them as humans, and before I care about them as students. And it also lets me know, you know, like, who's having a hard morning, or who's feeling really great, and lets me know, like, Okay, who can I push? And who should I like, give some grace to and who, when should I, you know, send a text to the guidance counselor. So it's those little things, I also asked them to set intentions for their day. So I think a lot of times, students are going through the motions of school because they have to, it's not a choice to be there. But asking them to set a goal at the beginning of the day, whether it's an academic goal, or like a behavior, a goal, it kind of gives them some agency around what they're going to be working on. And then throughout the day, I'll ask them, like, Hey, are you meeting your intention? Why or why not? Like, if you're not meeting your intention, like what can I do to help you redirect yourself? Similarly, at the end of the day, I do I have students do shout outs, and I have them share their the best part of their day, and the worst part of their day back gives me really important information. Sometimes it's about you know, my class, and that's important feedback for me to get and sometimes it's just about like, okay, like, Who do I need to follow up with? about something and sometimes that's when like, you find out oh, this incident happened during the day that maybe explains a student's behavior. So those are some like really small ways that teachers can open and close their days with some SEL.

Monte Woodard  9:15  
So how does you know SEL benefit students academically and emotionally? And can you provide any research or real world examples that you have for listeners?

Maddie Richer  9:23  
Yeah, totally. So I want to tell a story about a student that I had in my class last year, he transferred into my school in the middle of the year. He was coming from a setting that wasn't working for him and being moved into a smaller setting to address his needs. He was he's a really smart kid. He's a really good reader knows a ton of historical facts. He would tell you that he's terrible at math, but he was actually quite quite strong when given the support he needs, but he really wasn't turning in work. And we were trying to figure out like, why this kid was, you know, missing so much. Um, So much work when he was so smart and so capable. And it became clear from talking to his family that he had been kind of shuffled along throughout his education, because he had, you know, very high intelligence, you know, whatever that means, people could recognize that he was capable. But he wasn't really actually developing students skills or communication skills. And so he was really lacking in those areas. And so I decided to hold a circle with him, and a couple of the students in the class that he was friends with, and one, you know, one of one of his therapists at the school, and Apera. And I started by asking everybody to go around the circle and say, one thing that they really liked about this kid. And, and so everyone went around and said, something they had noticed about him that they really liked. And that kind of, you know, set the tone to show him that we care about him. And so then after we got him feeling, you know, feeling like he had value and that we cared about him, he started to open up about how he was really struggling with executive functioning. And he didn't know why he had so much trouble remembering what work he needed to do, or why he had so much trouble developing the motivation to get the work done. And it really, it really revealed a lot like people before that were saying, Oh, he's lazy, or he's stubborn, or whatever. And he there's actually just like, a lot that he didn't understand about himself and giving him like putting him in the position of hearing how much everyone really cared about him and wanted him to do well allowed him to open up about that. And after that, we, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't like, suddenly, he was a perfect student. But that was really the starting point that enabled us to like, have conversations with him about what he needed to do differently, and what we needed to do differently to create a space that was going to work for him. And he ended up finishing off the year strong. And he you know, voice that that circle really made him realize that people care about him. And so I think about him when I think about, like how we see concrete benefits to SEL.

Monte Woodard  12:16  
And so what role do you think the adults in the building play in? Are those roles? Or like, are those things different based on the role that the adult has? Or do we all have the same expectations when it comes to SEL? And making sure that, you know, kids emotional health is, you know, put first?

Maddie Richer  12:36  
Yeah, so it's a really good question. And I think it varies a lot from school to school, like what kinds of systems are and are not set up. I think that like Sel is becoming more of a thing that's being talked about in education. So there's like more funding going into SEL in different pockets and different like in some districts, in some schools. Some schools are electing to have their teachers trained in SEL, some are having their counselors do more training. But it's often sprinkled in in these like, kind of like isolated areas, like maybe in advisory, or when there's an incident, then like the cultural, the culture team will have a circle about it or whatever. But when it comes to teaching, I think it's really up to individual classroom teachers to choose whether or not they're going to center SEL classroom instruction. So like teachers can decide they're going to spend time checking in with students having them do reflections, having them do community building circles, and Harmon healing circles. And for some educators that can feel like they're really sacrificing important content time. And, you know, that's really hard, because there are really, you know, there's such demand on teachers to get results, especially at the high school level, especially in places where there is high stakes testing. And so it can be hard to let go of those things. And I think that school leaders can really sort of like encourage teachers to prioritize SEL by deprioritizing things like test scores, and also like giving positive attention and ratings to teachers who choose to center SEL. So I think that school leaders and districts can like their role is to make it make it feel possible for teachers to center those things.

Monte Woodard  14:29  
So I'm curious to know what resources or trainings that you know of that are available for teachers who would like to enhance their SEL practices?

Maddie Richer  14:37  
Yeah, sure. So I think I'm depending on where listeners are tuning in from, you know, it's worth like following up with their district or their school leader about what is available to them, especially like what's available for free. But for me, I learned a lot from actually restorative justice trainings, which I think is like, really good. Like intertwined with social emotional learning is like how we think about, you know, justice in our classrooms. And so I got some training by Brotherhood Sister Sol in New York. And I also used to work at a school that brought in Ramapo, which is an organization that trains teachers in restorative justice. And so I yeah, I would encourage teachers to look into restorative justice trainings as a way to kind of like, dig deeper into SEL, and like, how it can support them in their, you know, classroom management and so on.

Monte Woodard  15:38  
What pillars of restorative justice helped you most? Like? What about restorative justice allowed you to, you know, learn more about SEL?

Maddie Richer  15:47  
Oh, that's a good question. I think, um, you know, what I, what I've learned from restorative justice, is that, in order for, in order to do restorative justice, when something goes wrong with a kid, whether it's an incident between two students, or just an individual kid who is struggling and not doing well, in school, you have to have built a really solid foundation. And that's what they call tier one of restorative justice is community building. And so like, for example, one way that I do that in my class is that, at the beginning of the year, I ask every student to bring in one object from home, that is special to them, and represents them in some way. And they tell us about it, and then they keep it on a shelf in my classroom the whole year. And that's a way that we show that everybody's identity has a place in our classroom in our space. And it invites kids to bring in those parts of themselves when they come to school. So activities like that, that really build community, make it possible so that when there's harm, there is something to be restored, right. So if, you know, if a student says something hurtful to another student, then we need to be able to restore that community that we already built. And if that foundation isn't there, then restorative justice compensation isn't going to be so fruitful. Similarly, if we want kids to care about how they're doing academically, and if we want them to believe in themselves and their own abilities, they need to feel like they have a community in the classroom that cares about how they do.

Monte Woodard  17:26  
Yeah, I work in a school that also kind of practices this model. And I think one of the most important things that, that comes out of this is the whole repairing harm, I think, you know, as kids sometimes and even as adults, you know, we have explosive reactions to things. And I think there's so much power and teaching kids like that it's okay to admit that like you are wrong and saying sorry, like, and even as an adult, I feel like one of the most powerful tools that I use in my classroom is like my ability to be able to tell a kid that I'm sorry, when I've said a thing, or I've done a thing that, you know, probably broke the trust or like broke, you know, some sort of protocol, or and, and so that's one of my favorite things. Like when it comes to SEL, like really teaching kids like, we as adults are also doing this work of like learning how to manage, you know, stress and things like that. So I love that you brought up the restorative justice piece, because it just really made me think of that. And it wouldn't have even been a connection that I made.

Maddie Richer  18:25  
Yeah, I agree. 100% the apology piece, I think is so huge. You know, I've some kids have never heard a teacher apologize before. So like when you do that it's a big deal that really shows that, like you're a human and it also makes it okay for them to apologize when they mess up. So I 100% agree.

Monte Woodard  18:42  
Yeah, exactly. And then the kid is also way more willing to have a conversation with you about, like a thing that happened, you know, if a kid like I had two kids that I really struggled with last year, and we did have like explosive moments in class, and I said, I was sorry. And then by me saying, Sorry, they all of a sudden was like, Well, I'm sorry, too. And I was like, Oh, this is great. And like, let's actually talk about now, like, why we were both upset. And you know, I think sometimes kids also forget that we as teachers are human. And so they say and do things and I think it's also that's like also an important thing, like yes, apologize as the adult, but also get the kid to understand to like, Well, why did I respond this way? Um, and I think that all kind of goes into SEO and just getting kids to, like, take more ownership or like think through sometimes the things that we say and do, because you know, we're impulsive, especially at the middle school level, what I teach, they're very impulsive, so yeah, totally. But you know, but they're fine. So um, so how can parents and caregivers support SEL at home and what benefits you know, can they expect to see in their children if they invest the time to learn more about this?

Maddie Richer  19:46  
Yeah, so you know, I always have some a little bit of like, pause with this type of question, because I'm actually I'm not a parent myself. So I think you know, like as hard as it can be with teaching At school, like, I don't go home at the end of the day and like have to continue having being on all the time the way parents and caregivers do. So it's like much, I think it's much harder for parents to always 100% of the time. You know, like, like, make the space that a kid needs for their entire social, emotional selves. But I think that also, that offer offers more opportunities, like we were saying earlier for having conversations about, like, why conflicts happen. And so I think, I think I, you know, would encourage parents to, you know, like, have give kids mindfulness techniques, if I see something that's working for a particular student at school, I might suggest it using it at home as well. You know, doing their best to make space for kids feelings, and trying to uncover root causes of a kid's behavior. So, you know, I think this comes up with special education a lot, where it's like, you know, sometimes there's a parent who's like, really, really sick of telling their kids to do their homework, and they're, you know, frustrated. And like, maybe, maybe there's something underlying going on, that hasn't been recognized yet. Like, maybe there's a disability, maybe saw us particular type of, you know, adjustment, would make that kid more willing to do the homework, right. And so, like, really looking to uncover those root causes, I think, is the best thing. And then I also just think, like, whatever we want, as adults for ourselves, like doing our best whenever, whenever it's appropriate to extend that same grace to kids. So like, just like, sometimes, you know, like, we're running late to a meeting, like, the kid is two minutes late once like, to school or to class or whatever, like, it's not the end of the world. It's actually quite normal, right? And just like thinking about like, Okay, how would this come up in the adult world? And like, how would I want to be treated? If that happened, I think, is the way to go. 

Monte Woodard  22:00  
Yeah, I agree. With everything that you said, I think, you know, we also sometimes forget that children, all people, and they are, you know, they have feelings, they have big feelings. And I think when I get really frustrated with a kid, I think about how I respond when I'm frustrated. And I don't always respond the way that I'm supposed to. And that always makes me way more empathetic towards a kid who is just expressing frustration. Now, if I was perfect, and I did things perfectly all the time, then like, I could be annoyed with the child. But I'm like, if I am not always doing these things, how can we expect the kid to always do those things? And I think that's just like an important thing. Like someone said that to me once like, Well, are you perfect? Do you do these things right all the time? And I was like, I actually don't. And they were like, well, how can you be mad at someone for not meeting this expectation when you don't have this expectation for yourself? And it was like a very woke moment. For me. I was like, Oh, my God.

Maddie Richer  22:57  
Yeah, it's so real. I mean, it's like, When do adults ever have to sit at a desk all day under really bright fluorescent lights, and not talk to the people around them? It's just like, it's not an expectation that we have adults. So we shouldn't have it for kids either.

Monte Woodard  23:13  
Exactly. I get annoyed when they told me in faculty meetings, and I can't have my technology, but I make kids close their computers, every time they walk in my class, I'm like, you're not allowed to have your computer. You know? And yeah, it's very, you know, and obviously, I can make the decision to close the computer and be like, fine about it. But I am annoyed every time I'm like, I know how to multitask. And, you know, kids say this to me, I can multitask. And I'm like, No, you need to listen to what I'm saying. And so I think it's just super important for us to keep in the back of my mind, like, in our minds, like they're still learning, they're like sponges. And if we don't have the expectation for ourselves, we shouldn't necessarily always have it for kids. Not that we shouldn't expect things of them. But you know, it's just a great place to start. Yeah. So what do you hope to see in the future? What goals do you have when it comes to this SEL, you know, thing being merged in schools?

Maddie Richer  24:02  
Yeah, so I think it has a lot to do with what we were saying about treating kids as human beings, I think I want to see the education world recognize that kids are humans who have bodies who have physical needs and have a full spectrum of emotions. So, you know, sometimes they have a headache, and they have their head down. And, you know, I want to see the school react to that in ways other than like, punitive Lee, or assuming that the kid is lazy, right. I want to see students, you know, kind of be given both risk, respect and responsibility. Because ultimately, like that's what adolescents want, right? Like, they want to be treated more like adults, as they're developing and so they want to be given responsibility. And also with that, you know, currency expectations and also, you know, the understanding that we give to each other As adults, and as far as like my goals, since I teach ninth grade, that's a big transition year for students like the the main thing that I always hoped to accomplish is that by the end of the student's ninth grade year that they understand themselves, and what they need in order to feel safe and be able to succeed and that they know how to ask for those things. So that's where you know, the self advocacy comes in, and knowing how to ask for what they need, appropriately and professionally. So that they can get what they want, while also like respecting others. And I feel like what if they can do that, then they're set up for the rest of their high school and like, whatever academic challenges come their way, as long as they can understand for themselves what they need and how to ask for it, then they'll be able to handle whatever's coming.

Monte Woodard  25:50  
And so Maddie, you've said a lot of really great things. And I'm sure listeners are going to, you know, want to follow up. And if you're open to it, we always ask at the end, how can listeners connect with you? Should they have more questions or ideas or they just want to say thanks for you know, you hopping on this episode, and sharing their expertise?

Maddie Richer  26:09  
Totally. I think I shared my instagram handle so people are welcome to reach out to me. I can also provide my email address if that's good. I'm happy to hear from educators always.

Monte Woodard  26:23  
So we'll make sure that Maddie's Instagram is in the show notes for this episode. So if you're interested in hearing more, or you know wanting to chat with Maddie, you can find her on Instagram. Maddie, thank you so much for you know, meeting with me on a Thursday after a very long week. And we're just always super grateful for people who hop on here and share their experiences and expertise with the community. listeners. Remember, you can always email us at podcast@modernclassrooms.org And you can find the show notes for this episode at podcast.modernclassrooms.org/160. We'll have this episode's recap and transcript uploaded to the modern classrooms blog on Friday. So be sure to check those out or check back in the show notes for the episode if you'd like to access those. Also, listeners please leave a review if this podcast has been helpful in supporting you create a blended self paced, mastery based learning environment. It does help other folks find it. Thank you all for listening. Have a great rest of your week and we'll be back next Sunday.

Zach Diamond  27:22  
Thank you so much for listening. You can find links to topics and tools we discussed in our show notes for this episode. And remember, you can learn more about our work at www.modernclassrooms.org. And you can learn the essentials of our model through our free course at learn.modernclassrooms.org. You can follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram @modernclassproj. That's p r o j we are so appreciative of all you do for students in schools. Have a great week and we'll be back next Sunday with another episode of the Modern Classrooms Project podcast.