Zach Diamond  0:03  
Welcome to the modern classrooms project podcast. Each week, we bring you discussions with educators on how they use blended, self paced and mastery based learning to better serve their students. We believe teachers learn best from each other. So this is our way of lifting up the voices of leaders and innovators in our community. This is the modern classrooms project podcast.

Toni Rose Deanon  0:28  
Hello, and welcome to episode 127 of the modern classrooms project podcast. My name is Toni Rose Deanon, she/they pronouns, the Community Engagement Manager here at MCP. And I am joined today by a deaf and hard of hearing teacher who is hard of hearing. Tiffany Dreier, welcome, Tiffany.

Tiffany Dreier  0:45  
Thank you. Excited to be here. Yeah, it's

Toni Rose Deanon  0:49  
so exciting to be in this space with you. And thank you so much for saying yes to the podcast. And before we get started, we are doing a little something different today or doing a video which is really, really cool. We've never done this before. So just to make sure that we're able to see each other and able to communicate and all of that good stuff. So what's bringing you joy lately? Wonderful. Tiffany, what's bringing you joy?

Tiffany Dreier  1:21  
Oh, what's bringing me joy as the students read me joy every day. I mean, that's why I'm a teacher and I do this work. I have the blessing of getting to be with my caseload of students over the years. So every day, I get to see them and gotten to know them since kindergarten, or I've started with them in high school. And now they're seniors. And just as we talk about planning for graduation, and post secondary is it's just exciting to be able to continue these relationships with them. They're really grateful for him.

Tiffany Dreier  2:07  
Toni, I lost sound. I don't have any sound anymore.

Toni Rose Deanon  2:11  
I'm muted. That's on me. all right. Well, no, I was just saying students are amazing. So I'm really glad that they're bringing you joy. Last night, we actually, I was in a group, I was in a Zoom meeting with a group of teachers and they were talking about looping with their students and how much they loved seeing the growth. And I've never had that opportunity. So but the teachers who are looping, they're just like, oh my gosh, we love it. It's so great. So this is this is awesome, that students are bringing you joy, and you're able to see their growth from kindergarten to high school.

Tiffany Dreier  2:56  
Yeah, depending on if I get to stay with them that long. But like I have a fifth grader I've had since kindergarten right now and I'm just still seeing her as this like Avid hockey player now compared to when she was in kindergarten and what she was doing that and it's just, it's just a gift to be able to know them like that and continue on their, you know, journey with them as they're going through school.

Toni Rose Deanon  3:17  
And I bet they love the consistency as well right of having that adult just show up every single year and their learning journey. I love that for both of y'all.

Tiffany Dreier  3:27  
Yeah, sure.

Toni Rose Deanon  3:30  
Okay, so Tiffany, tell us more about who you are and how you started your MCP journey or rather, just your education journey?

Tiffany Dreier  3:37  
Sure, absolutely. I'm, I've been teaching for over 20 years. And all through those years. I am an itinerant deaf, hard of hearing teacher. I work in a suburban district in the metro area of the Twin Cities in Minnesota, Minnesota. So more to the south of Minneapolis and St. Paul. And I have, through my years worked with early childhood to transition but primarily kindergarten through 12th grade. And I've had some shifts this year for the first time in my career, where working full time itinerant this year, I'm actually doing part time I took it and I finally got American Sign Language, World Language class off the ground. At my at one high school in my district. I've been pushing for 10 years now to get that to happen. So for this 20 to 23 school year, I have a beginning ESL class, which is a one trimester class, offered as elective throughout the school year and then we were approved for an answer, one to go through the whole year. So hopefully next year, we'll have a licensed ASL TAS teacher come in and do that and continue forward with ASL to like, branch out to the rest of the high schools. But it's just been very exciting to To be a part of that, and it kind of helped manifest that. And what brought me to MCP was that I've been following MCP for quite some time probably like a year or two, maybe two years. But because I'm special ed, and I'm more like one to one small group, I wasn't quite sure how I could utilize MCP. But because I'm doing a Gen Ed now, like elective class as ASL. I wanted to see about using it because I've really seen going from spared and having the opportunity to be with my students for years, but also, like having the opportunity with him in such a small group that I can really develop relationships very strongly, I can get to know them really well. And my experience with Gen Ed and I was classroom of like 35 students, I am, I didn't really appreciate the model, like I didn't like being able to have to be in the room presenting and doing content and assessment. And I really can't get to know my kids. Like, it doesn't really enable us to do that well. And especially give feedback as we're, you know, acquiring new language and all that like pedagogical structure, really what I found challenging and really hard to kind of wrestle with. So I decided to really go further into MCP over like winter, like really delve into it December and January. And I'll be starting my unit three for this trimester group in the next week. And I want to, I want to like rollout MCP, at least try it for Unit Three and maybe build for next trimester, the whole trimester. And if I do get to be the teacher next year, then I definitely would like to continue with it and explore it. It's been an ongoing discussion with other staff about how do we do blended learning that's more student led invites more student voice really lays the learning on them, and gives them agency in that work rather than the typical model the teacher up at the front of the room doing the talking and they're supposed to be sponges taking it in, I just, I believe in projects, I believe in action, I believe in the social constructivist theory that I had to go through as a pre service teacher in my undergrad like, just really inviting MCP to do that more than what I've seen traditionally. Yeah, 

Toni Rose Deanon  7:29  
and thank you for sharing that. How did how did you find out about MCP?

Tiffany Dreier  7:34  
I'm trying to remember like I'm on so many like Ed, like education, listservs and email lists. So I wonder if it was just through, like EdWeek or Edutopia or something like that, like, I think I saw MCP through, like the listing of articles or things like that. And I just continued exploring, signed up for the email list and just kept following as you know, emails will come in and explanation and stuff like that. But I did the free course in December. Yeah,

Toni Rose Deanon  8:04  
I love that so much. I know that I did an all call in our Facebook group about like, hey, I need more support. And I need someone to just kind of have this conversation with me about how to support our deaf and hard of hearing students and really, our teachers as well, right. And so, and I was just so stoked when you had like, reached out and was like, I'd love to have a conversation. So I'm really, really appreciative of your time and just you being able to share your story. And so and I'm really excited to hear that there's, you know, the ASL classes that are at your school now. Is this the first in a while, like the first ever or

Tiffany Dreier  8:42  
the first ever this is our first class in the district. They're in the metro area, like we have so many the we have Minneapolis and St. Paul is our urban districts. And then we have so many outlying districts and, uh, probably about 50% of those districts in this, like what we call region 11. Has a ASL programs. So if it had been my hope we're the fourth largest district in the state, and we should have that offering. And so I've been working on it for some time and, you know, finally success that we haven't so excited.

Toni Rose Deanon  9:16  
Yeah. And that's again, like, it's, it's exciting to have that and also that it should have been a thing, right. And so I'm really glad that your students have you to continue advocating for them. And so I just I guess, for me, what's the Do you have a good number of students who are deaf and hard of hearing?

Tiffany Dreier  9:36  
At the high schools, we tend to have more because like, all of our students are, you know, kind of coming from the elementary middle schools to the high school. So yeah, we tend to have more but maybe at the most we'll have, you know, 12 of like a dozen to 15 students at one time that fluctuates. We're about 1% of the population, with students who are identified deaf or hard of hearing

Toni Rose Deanon  10:00  
And then for your ASL class, it's an elective so students can just sign up.

Tiffany Dreier  10:05  
Absolutely. So mostly, you know, mainstream hearing students that are interested, that I have picked the course to learn and take part in the class. Yeah.

Toni Rose Deanon  10:15  
And  are you seeing a huge interest in that

Tiffany Dreier  10:20  
for sure, I think especially with COVID, and all the like state and presidential announcements or communications that we're going out with the you know, picture and purse picture, or they have the interpreter right next at the podium. And, for example, are here in the state of Minnesota, our deaf interpreter that we had Nick Zebco was phenomenal. And she actually went viral just because she was so so skillful, and so expressive in her television, you know, televised appearances with the governor. So, like, she was just fantastic. And she did a lot of like, interviews and sharing out about things like that. So I think with that presence, as well as like, the coda movie last year, that one for Best Picture, there's just been a little bit more presence, I think, finally, in our society, to see as well, to see it as a valid language, to see that people who use it, as you know, part of our society, and just as easily accessible, skillful, you know, like everyone that we could be incorporating this language much more than we have been.

Toni Rose Deanon  11:35  
Yeah, I mean, I have to agree, thank you for pointing that out. That I have, I didn't even take a step back. And notice just how much media ASL has been getting, which I think is really, really awesome. Because again, growing up, that wasn't even an option to learn about. And so I know that my sister, she took ASL and she was just like, so excited to take it in high school. And I'm just like, oh, I, I didn't have that option. That would have been. Yeah, that have been so cool.

Tiffany Dreier  12:07  
Definitely would have been wonderful to have had that opportunity to win it.

Toni Rose Deanon  12:11  
Yeah, I mean, just like, Yeah, but I'm glad that now moving forward, that there's definitely a lot more like televised like, it's, it's shown it is part of society, like, this is a norm. This is not something that we should just think about last minute, which, you know, I was kind of talking to you before we started recording of like, oh, my gosh, captions, I didn't think about that. And, and that's just like, a privilege of mine, right? Like, I need to really be mindful. And just making sure that captions are an easy thing. And I need to have that on all the time. And sometimes, you know, I'm always like, Oh, don't let it be the last thing you think about. And then I catch myself thinking about that as the last thing. And so it's definitely a shift. And, you know, listeners I was, I was really telling Tiffany, like, thank you so much, again, like teaching me this is a learning curve for me. And so just kind of calling out things that I lack, which is, which is okay, it's good. So that moving forward, I can do better, right? For sure, so, so this month, we're focusing on supporting all learners, and we're gonna focus like, you know, as we all know, we're gonna focus on Deaf and Hard of Hearing learners and educators, of course. And so what is one thing that you wish everybody knew about the Deaf and Hard of Hearing community?

Tiffany Dreier  13:35  
That for the deaf or hard of hearing community, that abilities are all present. Like, they're, it's a communication access issue. And it's not cognitive, which I think a lot of people like defer to. And many of my students, like, even myself, like you occasionally get treated, like, our cognitive abilities are at fault. When it's not, it's the communication. So I think that's the most important thing for all of us, as educators especially is to remember that, that it's not reflective on the students intellectual ability, it's not reflective on, you know, the cognitive testing that we do or things like that it is reflective on what's happening, communication wise. And that involves all those things we've learned about communication about the speaker, the receiver, the environment, the message, all those things, these are things that we need to be cognizant about, not like blaming the intellect, which is I wish as a society we were more open acceptive of that accepting totally have that in a better way.

Toni Rose Deanon  14:51  
I mean, that just that's that's, it's great that you were able to name that right and I feel like now I want to just skip on over to like the The next couple of questions because this is really important, right? It's a communication piece and not a cognitive piece. It's not an intellectual piece. And there's no reason for us hearing folks to assume that like, it's a lot more than just communication, right. And so thank you for naming the thing that, you know, I'm getting used to naming the thing. And so people get really uncomfortable, honestly, when it comes to not being able to communicate with other people, right. And so for example, in my experience, right, like people weren't comfortable speaking to my parents, because it was assumed that my parents wouldn't be able to understand English. And I think now that you said, the communication versus the cognitive part that was I think, was really frustrating for me as a child growing up as an immigrant, right? And so I can only imagine or assume like what deaf and hard of hearing people go through when it comes to communication. So how can people hearing people really get over that fear of messing up and being misunderstood?

Tiffany Dreier  16:03  
Let me clarify like, do you mean messing up and being misunderstood as as a speaker or communicator to a deaf, hard of hearing person? Or do you mean, like, as a receiver? Like,

Toni Rose Deanon  16:14  
I think, I think a little bit of both, maybe,

Tiffany Dreier  16:17  
okay. I think it to, to really, like pull ourselves out of the fact. How do we how do I put it in the best way, like, how to pull ourselves out of like, the equation of it or the element of it, sometimes we really take it personally, we really think that we've messed up or we offended, or we failed, or as deaf or hard of hearing people, we miss things and we ask for clarification. And, you know, in the deaf or hard of hearing committee, we say like when people say nevermind to us, when you hear oh, nevermind, don't worry about it. It's like, a, like a swear word. It's like offensive to us. Because if we didn't care, we wouldn't ask, we really do want to be involved in be part of the communication and bike part of the community. Be part of like, that experience. And when people tell us, Oh, nevermind, it's not worth repeating. It's, it's just, it really is a hard thing to take in. And when we're speaking to others, where we think their language is, so what we think like emergent level or, like, not as complex, and then we think they their cognitive ability is not that strong, then it's not. It's the, it's the language, and it's the communication piece. So when we come up on to situations where we misunderstand, or our students misunderstand, it's to really remember the communication piece and try again, like, we're, we're all working in that space, to understand to learn, and to process. And there's all those elements and factors. So just I mean, to hold space and reflect. Sometimes it's really just as educators, we just need to slow down. And keep all that in mind, allow for wait time, allow ourselves like a moment to process and not rush or hurry. Like, just to keep those things in mind. I, my students are dually diagnosed in terms of unilateral hearing loss and attention deficit, and really trying to juggle where their attention is, and maybe what they need for repetition, and maybe what they need for environmental like support and focus. Like it's just being mindful of all the accommodations our kids need.

Toni Rose Deanon  18:49  
Tiffany, you're literally just my mind is just like, blown, right? Because again, you said a couple of really, really, really powerful things. One of them especially is not taking it personally. I know that we're shifting society is shifting to a more grace, like giving ourselves grace and embracing our mistakes, right. And so and not thinking that it has something to do with us. And like you said, taking ourselves out of the equation. The goal is to understand each other. And not Oh, my gosh, I messed up so I'm not going to repeat it or they didn't hear me so Oh, well. I'm just going to keep moving. Right. And I think like you said, it's literally that sense of urgency that we've had as a society. Like Go Go, go, go go. And slow down has been a phrase that has been coming up over and over and over for me, and I'm really glad that you're You're saying that because it is important to slow down. It is important to wait for processing to happen. And it is told really okay to repeat yourself more than one time?

Tiffany Dreier  20:04  
Yes. Yes.

Toni Rose Deanon  20:08  
Okay, these are these are really, they're nice. They're good reminders. I feel like I should know this, like, I know this right. But just to hear you say that too. I'm like, oh, da.

Tiffany Dreier  20:20  
Yeah. And as educators to kind of keep that in mind, I think, because I've been a hard of hearing person, like a deaf or hard of hearing teacher for so long that I've repeat, quite often naturally, like, I'm just processing and I'm processing again, but I verbally give my people that are receiving my message, like my classroom, my students in my room, like I'm repeating often, and I think sometimes we, when we think about, like, automatically, or like innately bringing those strategies in and using them. Sometimes we're bringing that gift to our kids without us, like, without consciousness, but then, you know, without having to, like automatically giving that gift to them, so to speak. Like, we might, they may not be aware that they needed that. And so we are doing it, and they don't have to advocate all the time for it. We as educators are providing accommodations, sometimes, innately, sometimes consciously, we have to work on them owning up to what we need to provide in the classroom.

Toni Rose Deanon  21:26  
Yeah, yeah, most definitely. And something to keep in mind that the accommodations that you have for just a group of students that can actually be helpful for all students. Yeah. And I think time and time again, when I have conversations with educators, right, it's like, oh, well, my students are lower. And I'm like, that just means your students need more support more scaffolding. And really just give more guidance. That doesn't mean anything but that right, so let's create these accommodations that will allow for our students to feel successful in the classroom, regardless of whatever, right. And I know sometimes as educators, we also see we also get overwhelmed, right? Like you said, 35 students in one class, that's a lot. And to be able to, like, help each that like each student, right? It's very daunting to think about. And so I think like giving space for like, yeah, it's going to be overwhelming. And yes, we're going to make mistakes. And that's okay. That's okay. But we should never shun any kid out, we shouldn't feel or take anything personally. Because we are there to serve our students in the best way that we can. These are, these are great, Tiffany. Thank you. Thank you. So we talked about accommodations. And so I know you've mentioned a couple of things. Let's go ahead and just share again, like two to three things that educators can do to better accommodate support, and advocate for advocate for learners who are deaf and hard of hearing,

Tiffany Dreier  23:15  
as as a DHH teacher, and then as I'm thinking through my planning for MCp into my ESL class, think about curriculum and think about the environment like those are the two main domains. When we look at how do we want to integrate accommodations and provide support to our DJ students. So for curriculum, I've seen a lot on like the Facebook group, the discussion about EdPuzzle, but using using your videos, and having captions on them. So I know, I've seen like commentary, it's, it's hard because it takes time. If there's any way for districts or buildings to provide that captioning support, like we have it because at our school, we have students who are using an interpreter or translator or they're using a capitalist. So we have staff that provide a asynchronous captioning support for teachers. Like they'll go in to YouTube and do the caps, auto generated caption editing, they'll go into amara.org and and they'll add the captions in. So if there's any way to provide that technical support, it would be fantastic because I think that would take some time off art. us as teachers having to provide that combination are really it's so important because auditorily we're struggling especially with VoiceOver narrations, if you're screenshotting, like screen recording, and you're writing and you're talking, we're going to really have a hard time understanding like wills here that there's sport there's I'm sorry, speech, but the clarity may not always be there. And so think about having captions all the time. Also Think like your ELL students are going to benefit from seeing the language on the screen, not just DHH kids. Captioning provides that vocabulary too. It's like an additional modality that it really exposes over and over again, that word or term or concept over and over. So it really strengthens our kids performance over time to have that repetition and availability. So caption is really good for thinking curriculum wise. In terms of environment, think about primarily always refer to what the students IEPs and Viva fours require, often it's that they have equipment that they're using. So you as a teacher might have the direct auditory input microphone, that the that you put on, and then the student has their receivers on to get that direct input, like you're the teacher on their shoulder talking in their ear, it's such a benefit from a distance, like, you know, communication volume decreases over distance. Especially if there's background noise, present your voice on their shoulders, like, easy allows for the cognitive effort to go to the information and the learning, and not spending so much cognitive effort on hearing. So that's what we're trying to do, too, with all the amplification support, your students might need to be seated in specific specific places in the classroom, like accessible to you as a teacher, or in a group or whatever, on one side of the room to have a good ear on one side, or, you know, or depending on what side their good air is on. And then the last thing is, when I think about MCP to and like you have your blended learning, but you might have small group activities, you might have your one to ones just be conscious of the environmental noise that's happening in your room. So if decibels start to rise, it starts to get louder. Our Deaf Hard of Hearing students might be having to manage or like where's this, what sound should I be paying attention to, I might be struggling to hear, like, especially for me with a lot of environmental noise happening. I'm I'm programmed to have the speech be clear. But when environment is powerful, I, I can't process all of it. And sometimes I've like my students, I want to go on the hall, or I want to move to a quieter place so that I can process easier. And again, it's that reminder of cognitive effort, go into learning, and not to managing all the auditory or hearing information. Because if it takes our students really, I've, I've have stories of students who've gone home, and are just exhausted, and it's hard to do their homework because they've spent so much energy just listening at school. So it's it's what we can do as educators to support the environment in those ways to allow the learning to be the key. That's what we want.

Toni Rose Deanon  27:57  
I mean, this is making me think to Tiffany, you know how a lot of educators and me myself as well, right? Oh, it's an organized chaos classroom, it's an organized chaos. Everyone is doing their thing. It's a beautiful, like chaos, right? But now, what I'm hearing from you is that this could be really overwhelming.

Tiffany Dreier  28:18  
Depending on Yeah, depending on what you're allowing in terms of activity and the environment. So maybe think about, where can there be placement to allow maybe a quieter space, or if you're if you allow students to like step out in that against a lead.

Toni Rose Deanon  28:43  
We love that.

Tiffany Dreier  28:47  
Maybe to think about if students need to like step out of the classroom into the hallway, or into a workspace across the hall or whatever. Many of my, especially my high schoolers have asked for that, like, can I go out in the hall? Can I go to the table down in the corner space and move my group there. And then I'll position myself I'll bring my mic. Like, our students also are good and advocating for themselves, especially that you know, our older elementary, middle school, high school, they know what they need to it's really creating the space that encourages their advocacy and welcomes it that that as well.

Toni Rose Deanon  29:27  
Yeah. Wow. And And again, this is something that can be provided for all students, right, like an option. Hey, if you need a quieter space, go here. Because you're not singling out your students. Right. Like you're not singling out a Tiffany. What did you call a D D H? What is it? D Hoh. Is that what you're saying?

Tiffany Dreier  29:48  
Deaf or Hard of Hearing? DHH? 

Toni Rose Deanon  29:50  
DHH Okay, cool. Thank you for teaching me that. I didn't know that. Yeah, so instead of you know, singling out our DHH kids just being like, hey, If you need a quieter space, go here, that's an option. So I really, really appreciate you stating that. Another thing too, Tiffany, I was speaking to another educator who's also hard of hearing. And he works in an elementary school. And he was saying that his school's had provided speakers all around his classroom. And again, like you were saying environment, right, like he had to be really intentional with putting those speakers where they need to be so that he can hear. And that, again, just something that I would have never considered. And so I appreciate you pointing this out that this is something again, that needs to be said and needs to, like people need to be aware.

Tiffany Dreier  30:45  
Yeah. And to add on to that story, too, like some of our buildings have incorporated with your mics with speakers in the room. So it really helps teacher vocal strain. And it also brings the teacher voice, like 360, like, it allows the teacher voice to be present in the room from the front to the back much more easily. I know I've I've talked to many educators over the years who have appreciated that system, because I know some teachers have dealt with losing their voices, in years into their career, where because of the vocal strain of that, and having that system is beneficial to all our kids, it's like, it enables those kids who like to be in the back of the room sometimes, like they're accessing your voice just as well, when we have those systems in place. And so that's beneficial for everyone. So I'm really grateful when we when I see those systems in some buildings, because it's just helpful for everybody.

Toni Rose Deanon  31:45  
Yeah, and now I feel so ridiculous. Because I remember, people, educators would typically use a mic and speaker system to be able to talk over students, right, as a way to manage behaviors. And I always thought that, no, like, the louder you get, the louder the students will get. And that defeats the purpose of having a mic. And now you're telling me no, the mic is this is an accommodation. It is for everyone to be able to hear what you're saying. And I'm like, that's just a different perspective for a teacher, Mike.

Tiffany Dreier  32:19  
Yes. And I really wouldn't look at it as I really wish you wouldn't look at it as like, it's a way to be managed behavior, because that's never what it should be like, then that that means that we need to be doing something differently with our manner, you know, behavior management responses and techniques, like, we should be doing something entirely different. We shouldn't be raising our voices. Not at all.

Toni Rose Deanon  32:43  
Right, right. And I completely agree with that statement. Right? And so because, for me, I have a pretty loud voice and, and I can project right and so but you stating like, hey, we want to save her vocal cords. I'm like, huh, I could have had that in my classroom. I didn't have to do stern loud talking.

Tiffany Dreier  33:07  
For sure. Especially, especially just to add, like during COVID, when we were doing the mask wearing, it was such to lose that visual access. And I didn't realize of course, how much I lost with that with the having the masks on that. We couldn't really understand each other. I think in general, many people learned like, oh, I use the face so much for like, lip reading, but also facial cues and everything. And without like muffling and sometimes we went through that stretch with plastic shields, that having the mics available for the classrooms in general was really been a was really helpful during that time. And I'm seeing classrooms continue even more like now, but then pre COVID Because those systems were so helpful. So just to add because I think we learned so much with having masks and plastic shields, especially for our deaf or hard of hearing kids. It was a missed significant issue we all had to work through across our country with dealing with that. Yeah, and

Toni Rose Deanon  34:15  
I think there was an educator if I remember correctly that went viral, because they had created a mask, but it was clear so you can see their mouth still and I was like wow, again, something we don't consider.

Tiffany Dreier  34:28  
No, we still have that available. Um, Marlee Matlin who is a famous Deaf actress and heavily like involved in the Deaf community and one has won you know an Oscar for her role for many years. You know, Best Picture many years ago as well as the current work she still does. She just like directed a TV episode a couple of weeks ago that aired and there was a documentary like clips on Mahara working and she is deaf and she's signing she has an interpreter with her But she had the clear mask. And I see that quite often with other deaf people in the community or interpreters, even as they're working in the community. And I'm using protection because COVID still a thing, and people still want protection. So having the code mass was very, very nice.

Toni Rose Deanon  35:18  
Is that easily accessible though? Tiffany,

Tiffany Dreier  35:21  
the clear mask the clear masks you mean, um, you can still get them I think if you search online, and once em, they've been good for that, for the reason of of like signing is the best way. But if you're talking in a clear mask, it's not the most ideal. They're really meant for like facial access. So

Toni Rose Deanon  35:45  
Got it. Got it. Yeah. And again, thank you for bringing that up, right. Because I know that I had a deaf friend in DC when I was living in DC, and she could read lips. And so I can't imagine like with that being gone, it just takes away a lot. Right. So thank you for naming that. And thank you for saying like, you know, it's still happening now. So we just need to be more cognizant of this being more aware as a first step. So then it'll change how we move forward. Right. Okay, so, listeners, we're going to take a quick break for an announcement and we come back, we'll talk a little bit more about Tiffany's experiences and expertise. Hey, listeners, it's Tony rose here with an announcement. When we have additional seats available for our virtual mentorship program, we always pull educators from our waitlist first, if you've always wanted to join the virtual mentorship program, but couldn't get funding join our waitlist at modern classrooms.org/waitlist. And all right, and we're back with Tiffany. So Tiffany, how can people educate themselves more about the Deaf and Hard of Hearing community.

Tiffany Dreier  37:00  
Um, there's, there's so many Reese's resources out there, I would be, you know, I would particularly depending on how you want to, like focus initially, if you're really interested in deafness, I would research there's so many people online to research, but I would, I would check out I'm trying to think as I follow so many influencers, people on social media right now. So that's kind of the best thing I can think of. So if you do like, famous people with hearing loss, famous or famous Deaf people, and just bring up a list, and start looking at who comes up for you, I know. Just recently, The Last of Us, which is like a very popular video game, and now TV show, there was a deaf, young deaf actor on there. And he's been getting a lot of attention. So if you just follow where you are seeing deaf people in media, then start researching that. Take a look at organizations, organizations that are local, that you might want to investigate them, there are deaf clubs, in, you know, in cities. And, you know, check that out online. In terms of hard of hearing, I think would be really helpful for us who are predominantly like born hearing or have more of a hearing culture, check, just research what hearing, hearing loss is. One of the most impactful things I've experienced in my field is when we actually do a hearing loss simulation, and there's many, even if you just Google that there's many websites that provide a hearing loss simulation, and you can click, you can like bring up audio click clips of various, like nature sounds, speech, environmental sounds, music, dance like, and at different levels, you can get a sense of what hearing loss is like. And once you've like, get that experience, once you feel it, then you understand, okay, now I get why accommodations are so you know, so beneficial, so helpful. And so we're needed, like so required, because our kids are working so hard, or deaf or hard of hearing community is working so hard to try to thrive in a very hearing dominant, you know, ableist society like that. It really is a helpful thing in that approach to try to attempt to do that. Check out those websites.

Toni Rose Deanon  39:54  
Yeah, and that's something that I didn't even consider right like the simulation. I think that that would be really powerful. afford to just kind of go through. And I know Tiffany, when I was talking to this other educator, he had said that he went on a field trip with his elementary school kids. And it was a wildlife like a nature walk. And a lot of the activities were just listening to wildlife. And he just realized he couldn't hear anything. And he said that that was probably one of like, the strangest things. So just be like, Wow, this is really sad. It's just silence. I can't, I don't, it's missing. And so when we talked about his hearing loss journey, right of just like, he said, It's not the big things, it's the little things that,

Tiffany Dreier  40:41  
yeah, I can share some examples of like, in my classroom, when the phone when the office is calling for a student or whatever, and the phone goes off, there is a light, but I'm on the other side of the room, I can't hear it, I can't see it. And so I need to rely on my students that are nearby it to like, wave at me and get my attention so that I can go and answer the phone, because I don't pick it up. If I want to like your you have your key fob or your car, and you lock your car, usually hear the alarm here at open or unlocked. I don't like I have to turn around and visit you know, actually, you know, physically look at my car, to make sure that I locked it what before I walk away, because I can't hear that it did it. Those are the kinds of examples that I'm dealing with daily, where I just need to make sure I'm visually supporting myself, I'm using people in my space to help me because I don't get it. And my my students are learning like, like, they see that I can't hear those things. And it's, it's amazing to be an educator like, you know, the adult in space dealing with that in front of your kids. It's also you know, it's a vulnerable thing. And that's where we just be ourselves. Mistake or you know, you know, whatever happens, we just do our best. And let them know.

Toni Rose Deanon  42:02  
Go ahead. No, no, go ahead. Sorry.

Tiffany Dreier  42:05  
I mean, to let them know and like be open with that. Like, even today, I was using a slideshow. And because I'm been special ed and not Gen Ed, I'm learning how to operate the the screen, like to freeze the screen, so I can change my screen. And then like go back or whatever, I don't know how to control like, I'm learning and I was very open with the kids today. I was just like, I've never done this before until this year. So thank you like, what's my one student told me? Can you freeze it? And then you can see, and then you can go back? And I'm like, Oh, I didn't know. You know, like, it's just, it's been able to admit, like, I am not the expert in the front of the room, and my kids are actually helpful and give me a lot of grace. And I appreciate that. So that's part of, I think, just human experience, you know, being shown as we go. So yeah,

Toni Rose Deanon  42:57  
and that was that I was gonna add to is like our human beings, right? We're not perfect. So we're going to mess up. But I think that I would push for us to mess up than to never, ever learn and never have to say anything, and just stay in our comfort zone. Right. And I know that, you know, through this conversation with you, there's definitely been a lot of like, Oh, I just want to like sucker punch myself. Because there's been so many, like, misconceptions, and you know, like, things that I was thinking about that was pretty problematic, and are really just a privileged entitled ablest way of thinking, right. And so it's like, okay, give myself grace. I didn't know. But now moving forward, I do know. And so just making sure again, like you said, the curriculum and environment piece that really resonates with me. Because those are two really easy right ways to accommodate to our DHH students. And so I know we touched about we touched on schools doing a better job of serving our students, right, our DHH students. And so is there anything else that you wanted to add on about what schools could do to better serve our DHH community?

Tiffany Dreier  44:14  
I, you know, other than like, really bringing in ASL like really, really supporting the, you know, our deaf or hard of hearing students as a whole. To also see our heart of hearing kids, I think it's easier to see our deaf students come in who are using an interpreter who are using Cued Speech who have a capitalist with them. And they have that like, access team person with them, which makes them much more visible and like seen, but we have a hard of hearing kids who look very much like everyone else they might have hearing aids on they might have one hearing aid on or we have our kids on the other end of the spectrum that have fluctuating Hearing due to ear infections. So they may have periods where their hearing levels are down, because they've got ear infections going on in their in their middle ears and stuff, and then that's got to resolve and then they're fine again, and they're back up to normal. So especially with our young ones, our babies, our preschoolers, our elementary kids that are getting older, and we don't see them, we just think they're not listening. We just think they're not paying attention. And they're balancing a world where they're not deaf enough. So they don't use ASL, their oral and they use English, or they're not like hearing not enough, they still need repetition, they need support to access. And we as like, hearing people in general, are like, have no patience, I, I want us to remember that we approach them as they're not burdens, like our heart of hearing, especially really take kind of that messaging sometimes, because we forget, they look like everybody else. And actually, that's not the case. So I really invite us all, to keep in mind that hearing is a spectrum and putting a hearing aid on doesn't solve it, we're really also dealing with the environment, the communication, the message, all of those factors. It's not like glasses where a glasses can do so which an easy correction, or contacts, it's hearing is so much more than that. And it's also what we're processing. So just to keep in mind that the hearing sense as a hearing system is so complicated. And we have our kids in front of us that reflect that complexity. So to keep that openness, and to keep that keep that like in the back of our mind to remember that our kids are still in front of us, they look like they're achieving their normal. But to always kind of like check in and make sure check in. And see, don't always ask like, can you hear me? Or, you know, a typical Yes, question like, you know, today, today is Monday, right? Like, you know, something like that, to always ask like an absurd question to check in. And then they're like, Oh, now you're listening, like, and now to just check to make sure that the environment is working, you know. So it's just to remember all those things. I think if we just do that as a whole for all our kids, our kids that have such mental health needs, our kids that maybe like physically needs support in in accessing things, or kids that are dealing with, you know, writing skill challenges, or reading challenges or whatever that we're doing, what we can to support and scaffold. But universal design of, you know, UDL for learning is, is workable for all kids. And just keeping that in mind for everyone. And often what we do to make things accessible, actually supports all you know, especially with the hearing part, it just supports other other students in our room. So keeping that in mind, thank you for letting me talk about it. I could, I'm passionate. I love it. Even so much. So thank you very much for letting me talk about that. I appreciate it.

Toni Rose Deanon  48:27  
No, I Tiffany, I feel like I'm definitely going to continue reaching out to you. Because again, this is something that I am pretty ignorant in. And I need to definitely learn more. And so and this is I'm inviting our listeners, I'm inviting our community to also just learn more, right? That's the first step is be self aware, and then learn more and then start having those, those actionable next steps to really create a more inclusive and accessible classrooms. Because ultimately, that's what we want, right? We want every single student regardless of any label, regardless of any ability, regardless of anything to be successful in the classroom. And I think teachers get in this profession because they want to make sure our youth are taken care of and, and they're educated and they can advocate for themselves. And so something to that, like kind of right like that just resonated with me so much, Tiffany and I never even thought about it. Is that whole trying to feel that sense of belongingness right? When you were talking about hard of hearing students have like they're not deaf enough, but they're also not hearing enough. And so they're having to navigate to worlds and trying to figure out where they fit in. And I never even thought to consider that. Right? It's just like, oh, well, I'm thinking about you know, me being an immigrant me being non binary me being queer. And then it's like, oh, like I never even thought that like, hard of hearing deaf community, right. Like there's a lot to navigate and just that one On peace of identity, and just thank you, thank you for making me more aware.

Tiffany Dreier  50:05  
Yes, absolutely. I, I think we, we don't really think about that in the deaf community and, and, you know, the deaf community is a community, there's so many identities within it. And all the things that, you know, I have, I have learned, you know, I've been signing for 30 years. And I have learned over time, and I continue to, like, that's just the nature of being a community and how we all are together and evolve. But yeah, I, I, even as a professor in my pre service program, it always was like, being a deaf teacher was the thing because you get to use ASL. And actually 90% of our students are in mainstream classrooms, trying to, you know, you know, be successful in the mainstream setting, not unlike the Deaf school or programs that are ASL as the as the language and the environment. It's not it, that's only a small, small percentage of our population. So there's so many hard of hearing kids that are navigating our mainstream educational system, and to keep them supported. Because again, there they are, like navigating on a daily basis, because communication, I had school psychologists say this to me couple years back communication is our language is the currency of school. And I use that without going wow, yeah, like, because that's what our kids are navigating is language. And when my students in particular are dealing with the accessibility of hearing and the language, but also learning the knowledge, like the background knowledge to things, developing their schema, like adding vocabulary, trying to pass the AC T, I had a good score, like all those things, they're doing that every single day, because their exposure to language is different. It's not, not on the equal level. So all of that support is needed. Some more I can talk about that, thank you for letting me share about that. It's just our heart of hearing kids. Really, they're not many of them. But there's many consider just navigating that journey that really reflects communication and language, which we're all navigating.

Toni Rose Deanon  52:31  
Yeah, I mean, just going back to what you said in the beginning, right, it's all communication. And that's definitely a phrase that I need to that that's probably going to stick with me for a while that language is the currency of schools. And that that just that makes so much sense and it resonates with me. Who has a lot to process Tiffany? Another episode that's making me sweat

Tiffany Dreier  53:08  
you seen at all? 

Toni Rose Deanon  53:11  
I think I already know what your answer is. But what goal do you have in the future?

Tiffany Dreier  53:19  
I like goal as in anything, you anything or MCP related.

Toni Rose Deanon  53:25  
Anything, it doesn't have to be MCP related.

Tiffany Dreier  53:30  
I think where I'm at now, as an educator is I am both like, overwhelmed with this general education, like mainstream environments, which is so new to me after, you know, teaching for over 20 years in special ed. But I'm so excited to like think about to think about MCP in this way of centering the student, putting more of the learning on the student becoming more of a facilitator, but inviting joy, like between the blended learning opportunities, the small group the progress tracking and all that, you know, and realizing that our kids are going to buy in and, and and how they pay us is going to be very different. But the the excitement of being able to maybe to develop more close relationships with kids. And to think about grading like I'm still processing as people are having dialogue and faith in the Facebook group. And another thing is like, how do we grade in a way that like really centers learning and not a score? Not a letter? Like how can we do that I'm still wrapping my head around like the must dues the should dues in the aspire to do is and I'm I'm actually putting must do assignments in my Schoology like LMS right now for my students. So we're getting used to that language a little bit but to Who like do all that in a way that fosters equity, like reflects in my room, not only with like, you know, special ed, and my lens of deaf or hard of hearing, primarily, but that all all abilities all label all identities that are in the room, and being very responsive to that, like being relevant in that way. And, you know, incorporating all the rigor, like golden Muhammad and I'm sorry, Zurita Hammond, is that right? Talking about, you know, cultural, you know, cultural relevancy, and rigor and brain, you know, development and responsiveness, like bringing all of that in, in a way that supports all of our students. And again, at the same time, being vulnerable, you know, during the net with them. Being Human, like, really changing the way our educational system has really focused on this industrial old centuries old model of, of, you know, the information on one person and pushing our kids through, but inviting learning to be a very different way. And I'm kind of excited, and CPS present in that way to roll out and what we can bring as educators, each of us in our way. So that's my goal is like, really see how MCB plays out for me over the next like four or five months to the end of the school year. And then if I am the ASL one teacher next year to see how I can grow that and experiment with it more, that's my goal.

Toni Rose Deanon  56:46  
And I love that something that came up for me, Tiffany is that, you know, you're saying this industrialized schooling, right of just like teaching, teaching, teaching them to push them out. And we've always had student centered, but it hasn't been student centered. I feel like now it has been a lot of, and I don't, it's an unpopular opinion. But I feel like it's teacher centered in a way that makes teachers comfortable with how they teach, as opposed to being responsive to how diverse and beautiful their students are, right. So it's kind of like, this is something I tell teachers all the time, too, is like, we teach the way we're taught. And we need to disrupt that. Because we clearly it's not working, and we get a we get a new group of students every year, so we can really accommodate to those students needs and have representation and have really conversations of allowing them to show up as they are and not what they think their teachers want. Right. So yeah, definitely shifting that, that focus and shifting that center to really, to really just center our students. Our students are incredible. They do amazing things and, and when they feel like the teacher supports them when they feel like their teacher actually likes them as human beings. They're so like, They're magical.

Tiffany Dreier  58:11  
Yeah, like just what comes out of them and the gifts to cater like, just be able to be a part of that and receive that. It's also you know, awesome, that's a gift to so I learned so much from that when they do that with us. So, yes. 

Toni Rose Deanon  58:30  
Okay. I swear we can keep going, Tiffany, how can our listeners connect with you?

Tiffany Dreier  58:38  
I am on I'm on like your typical platform. So I am on Facebook. Tiffany Johnson Dreier is my profile name. On Twitter, I am Tiffany DHH underscore ad for a Deaf Hard of Hearing ad. So if you just do a Google search of my name, you'll find me. I'm not so much on Instagram. And I in terms of email tiffany.to air@gmail.com. Any of those avenues are a wonderful ways to get in touch with me to find me on social media or to connect with me. And I welcome anyone like more commentary, if you have questions, if you have, like different things to add to this discussion, please like, I'm happy because I am one deaf, hard of hearing teacher in Minnesota. There's so many of us with expertise around the country. And I love the world language teachers that post in the MCB group because I'm trying to learn from what you're doing. And I just, I welcome anything that people want to share, ask questions about or talk more about.

Toni Rose Deanon  59:51  
Keep the conversation going right as opposed to being afraid of having the conversation. Well, thank you so much Tiffany for providing this Brave space for me and to continue learning from you as well, and just embracing all of my commentary. And so I just I appreciate you so much. I don't think you know how much I appreciate you teaching me today.

Tiffany Dreier  1:00:14  
Thank you for the opportunity. It's been a gift to be able to talk about all of this. I really appreciate that.

Toni Rose Deanon  1:00:21  
It's about time, right? We're gonna do better, I'm gonna do better. Okay, so listeners remember, you can always email us at podcast at modern classrooms.org. And you can find the show notes for this episode at podcast that modern classrooms.org/ 127 We'll have this episode's recap and transcript uploaded to the modern classrooms blog on Friday, so be sure to check their check back in the show notes for this episode if you'd like to access those. Thank you all for listening. Thank you for watching. If you're watching, have a great week and we'll be back next Sunday. Thank you.

Zach Diamond  1:01:05  
Thank you so much for listening. You can find links to topics and tools we discussed in our show notes for this episode. And remember, you can learn more about our work at WWW dot ATT modern classrooms.org And you can learn the essentials of our model through our free course at Learn dot modern classrooms.org. You can follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram at modern class prize. That's p r o j we are so appreciative of all you do for students in schools. Have a great week and we'll be back next Sunday with another episode of the modern classrooms project podcast.