Zach Diamond  0:02  
Music. Welcome to the modern classrooms project podcast. Each week we bring you discussions with educators on how they use blended, self paced and mastery based learning to better serve their students. We believe teachers learn best from each other, so this is our way of lifting up the voices of leaders and innovators in our community. This is the modern classrooms project podcast.

Hello and welcome to the modern classrooms project podcast. My name is Zach Diamond, and I'm a high school media production teacher in Washington, DC, and, of course, a modern classrooms implementer. And today I'm joined by Carson Hickox, a middle school social studies teacher and a DMC and mentor. Welcome, Carson. Welcome to the podcast. 

Carson Hickox  0:49  
Hey, how's it going? 

Zach Diamond  0:50  
It's going great. I'm so excited to have you. We were emailing back and forth a bunch before this, and I'm really excited for this conversation. We're going to talk about sort of your first year implementing and how it transformed your your teaching and your class. But before we get started with that, why don't you tell our listeners a little bit more about yourself, tell us about who you are and how you started your MCP journey that has COVID in you, becoming a mentor. 

Carson Hickox  1:14  
Yeah, it's been, it's been quite an adventure. I have to go like, it's like, it's kind of like a Captain Underpants book. To tell you this story, I'm gonna have to, like, tell you the story. So I I've been teaching for six years, all social studies and all in Oregon where I live right now. So I live in Redmond, Oregon, which is about 25 miles north of bend in Central Oregon. And my wife and I moved here in 2019 and we have three little kids, and, you know, we were living in the valley and moved over here, and so it's been, it's been a so a lot of the the like process of becoming a modern classrooms, mentor and teacher, it was, it's kind of like, I think, a building for, like, a few years. So when I first started, and this is kind of an interesting thing about Oregon, we don't have like, a social studies test, or like, an assessment that goes along with social studies for the state. Some states do. We don't. And so as a result, when sometimes we get curriculum that we're that doesn't have like, a lot of like, how to, like teach social studies, look at a book, and we're kind of, like, going from that kind of mindset. And so when I first started teaching my first year here in Central Oregon, I was in a rural district, and just kind of started teaching, and I was like, I don't really know how to do any of this. Like, I think my teaching program wasn't quite ready to, like, step into that. And so over time, it was like, piecing together different pieces of curriculum. But even, like, in the process of teaching social studies, I felt like I wasn't able to do the things I really wanted to do in social studies, like have meaningful discussions and conversations, but like, it was a lot of notes, and it was a lot of like, read this text and answer these vocabulary terms, and it was all kind of jumbled, and it and then I started teaching. My first year that I started teaching in March, it was COVID, so I got started teaching. Then it was, like, immediately pivoted to online learning, which was a whole bag of many things. So that was my first year. So for me, what was normal in teaching was like to spend half your year online. So I didn't really have a normal year until like, three years later, when everything kind of settled down. There was, you know, we weren't working through a lot of the different like procedural stuff around COVID, and we were able to, just like, go from September to spring as a full year. So I only had, like, I had two years of teaching that before. So I taught in that district for a couple years, about four years, and kind of got my feet underneath me, and then that that we lived in Redmond, and I worked in this other district. So I was driving 25 minutes, you know, back and forth through kind of these back country roads to get there, which I know for most people that are living in, like an urban center, 25 minute community is, like, not a big deal. But for me, it was like we were driving home, you know. And so I got an opportunity to move over to teach in Redmond, which is where I teach now, and it's like five minutes from my house and so, but anyway, so I taught the same way, yeah, I know. Imagine just being like, walk out the door and there I am. You know, it's not quite that simple, but that's fine. We were but I could ride my bike, which is great. That's a new thing. So, but yes, I started teaching here, and it was really interesting, so I felt like I'd finally kind of found what I was comfortable in teaching, or another district that got notes, and there's quiz at the end of the week and see what you know. And then it was like, All right, you don't know it, but we don't, I don't know what to do with that, so we're just gonna keep going and kind of keep progressing forward and have kids retake stuff over and over again. And it was, it was for what it was, it was fine. And the kids, like the class, and I had a good relationship with the kids, and so it wasn't a bad thing. It just was, you know, it was, I felt like that's kind of what social studies was going to be for me. And so I got to the school I taught at now, and I I remember this vivid thing in my mind. I came into class, and I just started teaching the same way I taught before. And I was like, this is not going to work. I just knew I was like, this is not going to go well. So.

Well, I just started thinking about different ways that I was going to Well, I could do differently, because it was, it was the first time that, I think in my entire teaching career, I saw just like the full breadth of different skill sets and kids and different ability levels. And so it was kind of jarring. I was very much like, Oh man, this is every kid's in like a different spot, and we're trying to do notes, and it's just like a nightmare. And so I was like, I'm not sure how to approach this. And when I started in the district, they had opened up this idea of proficiency based grading, which I had heard of before, but I didn't fully understand. They were really kind of pushing it when we first got to the district. And so I decided to kind of jump in with proficiency based grading, having no idea, like what that meant, which is going to be like a theme throughout this podcast. I don't really know what I'm doing, but I'm just gonna do it. And so I just kind of jumped in doing it. And so I had this, like, idea of proficiency based grading and, like, evaluating kids on their progress, and not necessarily, like, you know, recall and things like that. And that was kind of already, so I was already kind of in that process of thinking about that. So when I got up in front of kids and just realized it wasn't gonna work, I was like, we need to start over. To start over completely. And I just got on a got on Google, and was like, how do you set up a proficiency based classroom, which I should have done two weeks before and didn't do that, which took me to Jennifer Gonzalez, is called the pedigree podcast, and and I think Kareem was on there talking about mastery based classroom. And so I went down that rabbit hole, and was like, This sounds like exactly what I want to do. And so I did. I watched the, you know, I watched the YouTube video, I did the whole thing, and got super interested in it. And then I just kind of came in the next day and was like, Okay, we're doing this. And just told the kids, hey, we're doing this model. And I had no idea. I had no nothing. I had no idea what I was doing. I was just like, let's just see what happens, which is was a terrible idea, but I was just kind of, I was ready to do something different, and

that's how So, that's how it got started. And so in like November of last year, I was just like, we're doing this. And I think I told I told the kids something like, this is the last time we'll all be working on the same thing in this class. It's going to be totally different from now on. And that wasn't the case. But, man, it was. It was a wild experience.

And so last year was a lot. And then, you know, obviously in the in the fall, I also started doing an admin licensure program. So I was in these two different things, and I was like, coming home, and I was just working on curriculum, and I was like, working on stuff for licensure stuff. And so, 

Zach Diamond  7:30  
Woo, yeah, and the three kids too. That's a lot. That's That's wild. This was last year. 

Carson Hickox  7:36  
Yeah, it was too much. Definitely was way too much. But I don't know my mindset was, and this isn't necessarily like, I don't know if this is, like, a healthy way to view it, but I knew that doing something different was going to cost me something like, it was going to cost time. It was going to be hard. I just knew that. And so my hope was that it would find, I would find some more sustainable rhythms. So now, after that first year, there's definitely we found, like, a better pattern of how to do things. And my admin program has lightened up a lot, but I think I knew that it was, you know, when you're trying to do something different and you're trying to really get into, like, what it means to differentiate. Because, you know, differentiation is, like, a term we'd like toss around, and we're like, oh, differentiate. And you're as a teacher, like, what am I supposed to make five different lessons? I don't even know how to do that. I'm like, This is impossible. And so the only way that I and I think in my first year, it was very much learning the structure of the model. It was like, what do we what do kids need to be successful in this model? What's what works and what doesn't work? 

And over the summer, this so anyway, to go back like it was a lot, you know, being up late making lesson plans, because, I mean, again, in social studies, we don't have a curriculum, so I'm building the whole we're building the whole thing from the ground up. You know, we're using some history live curriculum. We're using some National Geographic curriculum. We're really figuring out how to do that, and we're also figuring out what kids like and what they don't like. And we're getting feedback from kids say, What do you think about this like? And we're seeing kids really enjoy it. So my eighth graders last year, I think there was a lot we had a lot of like learning experiences from that. My seventh graders came in this year having done the model before, and just, you know, rolled right into it, and it was just like a natural, you know. So I, I loop with my seventh graders, so they come up to me at eighth grade, and then I have and then I have another seventh grade. So I have them two years in a row, which is awesome for teaching the model. 

So, yeah, so that's how things got started in MCP. And it was, it was a lot, but it was, it was really, it was really fun, I think, and it was really thankful for one of my colleagues in like, January of last year came to me, we're both just kind of like, Man, I don't, I don't want to, like, I don't want to teach the way that we we're going to be gonna change stuff. It's not it's not going he jumped in with me, and we've been doing it ever since. And he started the same year, the same school, and he's been a huge, huge blessing to me, just because, just giving up the workload and just having someone talk to about, like, how to do this. And he's an old language arts teacher. 

He's just like a legend. And so I'm like, his knowledge of skills and how to do that at Social Studies has been really great. And so that was definitely I would have been a lot harder to do it on my own again. But even though, even so, I was like, I'm committed, like, I'm like, I'm not going back to what was before, but I think we've kind of adopted things now and kind of figured out how this model supports these different things. And so I feel like it's been, it was, it was, it was a crazy first year. But, you know, up late, you know, making like, like, mastery trackers, and then at midnight, being like, why am I doing this? Like, what am I? Why am I doing this to myself?

But at the same time, you know, seeing the value in it, seeing kids use it, and seeing kids kind of own, their learning a lot more, I think, was the most rewarding part of it. So, yeah, yeah, that was a lot. That was a lot of talking about 

Zach Diamond  10:47  
no no, but yeah, like, it's, it's interesting, because you talked about how, like, you knew it would be a lot of work. You maybe even knew it would be too much, right, but, like, at the same time, you also knew that something had to change, right? Like, you, it's so it's so amazing how much of a difference a school environment can make, right? Like, you come into the new school and you're like, Wow, this is not working. Like, you just know, right? And, yeah, I mean, so that was gonna be my question, right? Like, how did that first year go? And I'm hearing some of that, right? Like, clearly, it was a lot of work diving in, kind of like, mid year, just like, right into it, but clearly you stuck with it, right? Like, you've gone on to become a DMCE and a mentor in a pretty short time, right? Like, and so obviously the model provided value for you, and you were sort of starting to get at that, like, talk more about the impact that you've seen, that how your students have responded, right? Like, why have, why do you think that you and the students maybe also have responded so positively, even within that, like, sort of chaotic little world that you, that you had last year? 

Carson Hickox  11:50  
Yeah, yeah. Well, I have to give the students a lot of credit, because for all, for all the knocks on middle schoolers, they're, they're really forgiving, and they're really like, gracious and and sometimes I look at them and I'm like, You guys have such a I mean, they're they're what's going on, what's going on within them, and within their like minds and stuff like that is so outside of like as an adult, but you can rationally comprehend, you know, because I'm like, I don't remember anything about middle anything about middle school. I'm like, I don't remember a thing. I'm the exact same way. I'm the exact same way, right? I'm just like, what happened? So

I think this to see them kind of, you know, we talk a lot about, you know, teachers coming back and every day, facing a new day, and, like, welcoming kids to the new day. I think my students really, I think they really came in with that. My eighth graders and I, we kind of butted heads a lot, and that was the, you know, the downside to having kids loop is that they had a different teacher last year, and so they're coming and having me, and there's all those different, you know, the things that go along with that that are tough and so, but towards the end of the year, we really got into a rhythm, and things were fine. So, yeah, I think for me, what was, what's been really great about is I just, you see kids just, and sometimes, like, I don't know, I I almost, it's almost, you almost get kind of emotional, because you kind of step back as a teacher, and when you post your guide to notes video, and the kids just put their headphones on and they watch their guided notes video, and it's quiet, and you're just like, it's happening. It's like, it's happening like, right now I'm like, looking around, going like, they did it. And that's rewarding, from a sense of feeling like the kids are bought into it. They're not like, not just like performing. They are, they are into what's happening.

And then I think I've seen it. So this last year, I kind of reformat in my classroom into more of, like, a more of a space that I thought fit more with the differentiated model. So I went totally Elementary and got like, a little kidney table that's like a circle, half circle table. And I like, sit there and I'm just like, like a, like a blackjack dealer, just kind of like, doling out information. So, like, the so that, I mean this. So last year I had a student that was I was EL. It was an English language learner last year, and he wasn't in social studies, and he came into social studies this year, and for that, most of the year, and just kind of was checked out. He's just like, I'm not, I don't know. I'm not interested in this.

And which led to me and my colleague going, like, I think we're doing too much with these videos. Like, I think we're asking them to do too much, and we're like, so I'm like, that's okay, it's only five videos, but each video was six minutes long and has a half an hour of me talking and then writing stuff down. And I was just like, that's too much for him. Like, we're just, we're trying to throw too much information at them. So we slimmed it down and got a lot shorter with it. Got a lot more granular with it, shortener lessons to make a little bit more compact. And I sat down with this kid. I said, Hey, listen, man, why don't you come sit with me back here? We'll work through it together. I'll help you. We'll then we switch to more of a skill focus, and away from like a content focus, like using the content to teach these skills, like critical reading and things like that. I sat down with him back here, and I felt like he was a student.

That a lot of teachers had kind of been like, I don't know. I think he's just kind of lazy. And I was like, Okay, well, I don't, I mean, I have the time now to sit down with a kid, one on one and work with him, and we just sat down and talked through it. And, I mean, the other day I came back from my I had a sub the last couple days, and I came back and I was like, the class was crazy. Got these reports from the sub. And I was like, oh, man, here we go. This is gonna be a whole thing. And I was like, man, you know, you guys, you gotta make sure that you're getting work done when I'm not here. And he put his hand up. He said, I got through everything. He's like, I'm on pace. Like, I'm ahead of pace. And I was like, and I think in that moment, to see him in front of his peers, be so upfront about, like, his success, and to see him, he's, like, proud of that, I think if it was just that one kid that had done that, I would be totally that was enough to keep me going within that, that model. And so I've seen little snippets like that. I think, you know, generally, kids will come into class and they'll do what they're supposed to do, and you don't have to, like, push them too much. They just kind of, know, there's some kids you kind of kind of encourage along and but I felt like what I saw was kids really taking ownership of what they wanted to do and to see them of their own accord, jumping into extension activities, to work on different stuff, aspire to do information, I think, has also been super rewarding. And I had a administrator, her husband sub for me the other day, and he came and he's like, you gotta see his classroom. Like, it was like, he's like, So and so was working, like he was doing work in the class. He was like, doing what he was supposed to be doing. And he was like, shocked by that. And my administrator came to me and said, whatever's happening in your classroom is magical. Like, I don't know what's going on, but it's, it's magic. And I'm like, and I, you know, for me, you're immersed in this. You're, like, surrounded by it. So you kind of get in your own little world. You see all the flaws, and you see the kids doing this and and you're like, oh, it's not, oh, it's not going the way I want it to go. But I think that combination of hearing from her and from and seeing the student success, and seeing kids owning it, and seeing them asking questions, and, you know, seeing them get it like seeing them like you see that get really granular with the information, and seeing them pick up on it, because it's not just the blended learning rights, it's the mastery based learning. It's like they're learning, they're mastering skills, and you're seeing that happen, and you're seeing it before your eyes. You're just kind of watching this process happen. So it's, it's been really cool to witness and really encouraging, I think, as a teacher, to see that happening. 

Zach Diamond  17:24  
Yeah, you know, I love that. I feel like I just, I feel like there's this sort of indescribable, although you just described it really, really well, actually, like just this sort of, like wave of positivity that comes in a modern classroom, even a chaotic one, like, sometimes a lot of stuff has had I know Middle School. This is my first year teaching high school. I've been a middle school teacher up until now, and less chaos in high school. Definitely. Middle schoolers are more, more off the wall, but like, sometimes they're like that, and then sometimes they all put on their headphones and they're all doing their thing, and you're just like, do I even need to be here?

Like, can I help any of you? Awkward, I remember my first, my very first time implementing the model, and I wasn't used to this yet. They were all working, every one of them, like, everyone had or, you know, they were all watching videos or whatever. And I was like, Do you need me? Like, can I seriously? Is there anybody that I can help? I'm just here. Like, let me know if you need anything. Yeah, anything. Yeah. And you know, you made this really important distinction between authentic, buy in and just like, sort of performative. I'm doing it because, for whatever reason, like, you can tell right when the kids, when all the kids are doing it, and there's this feeling of like, yeah, we're doing it because we want to do it. And I think it also speaks to your planning, too. Planning too, right? Like, they it needs to be planned clearly and concretely, and they have to understand what to do. But, but, yeah, definitely. I remember that moment, that moment of like, whoa, whoa. This is definitely it, 

Carson Hickox  18:56  
yeah, and, you know, it's funny, I think we just don't give kids enough credit. Like, I don't think we give them enough to be like, I think there's a lot of, I think even even myself, I find myself having, you know, a deficit mindset, oh, that, you know, they, they're not gonna be able to do that. Like, that's what do you like, it's crazy. And I'm like, but we should at least try. And they might surprise you. And, like, worst case scenario, you could, you know, it's like, they can always go back, you know, if you want to, but I'm like, we would try to do that. And I think, you know, Social Studies is such interesting domain for that too, because it's easy to get lost in the details. And so you're trying to help kids engage with this, you know, meaningful and fun. Like, I find Social Studies enjoyable to learn and study and the conversations that come up with it, but it's also easy to get bogged down in, like, you know, the dates and the details that you can end up kind of, I don't know, boring is not the right word. I don't want to say that, but you can end up, yeah, just getting lost in the details. And I think forget that we're trying to give kids the skills they need to unlock future learning. And I'm like, mastery is all about that. I want them to be able to do.

This in the future on their own, you know, yeah, yeah. Like, so talk more about that, because this was something you mentioned, this, this sort of shift from content based to skills based teaching and learning. And I think that's really interesting in social studies, because, yeah, like, there is sort of, in my memory of social studies, there is sort of just like a memorize the facts kind of a thing going on, right? So, like, what does that look like in in social studies for you, and I guess in your modern classroom, Social Studies class to, like, talk more about that. Yeah, I think we're still in process. Like, I think we're still learning, like, what that looks like, you know, and there's a lot of things I would do differently next year. I would probably teach more skills in the front end, yeah. So I have to give a lot of credit to my colleague, Randy. He, being a language arts teacher, has kind of naturally. He comes from a skills background, right? So I from a social studies background. We can tell you that, like, there's skills like analyze and evaluate and describe and compare and contrast, which is always like the one that we end up going to like, compare and contrast, everything. But I think there's a lot of within social studies. There's a lot of opportunities. And so, yeah, I'll go back. So in my in my admin program, we were reading two really cool books. One was like the PLC process by Richard du for, I forget his name, but du four. Du four. I think there's both double divorce in that name. And then there's Mike, Mike schmoker and Mike smoker about but called Focus. 

Zach Diamond  21:26  
I'll find them both, and I'll link them in the show notes for people. 

Carson Hickox  21:28  
Yeah. And then the knowledge gap was another one that I was reading about, too, and they all kind of had this theme. One was the theme of mastery. So that was like, and that was not a concept that I felt like I unpacked in my teaching program the idea of mastering things, and I don't think I was ready to, like, understand that at that time. But like, when you when you look at social studies content, it's like impossible to master content, like you're not going to know every single date or person or event in sequence for the rest of your life, like that. You can't master Social Studies content. You could certainly show that you know it like if you were like, Okay, you can memorize this, this chronology. Sure, that's great, and I think there's value in that. But as I started raising these books, there was these conversations around social studies has this naturally engaging curriculum and topics. You're talking about religions, you're talking about philosophies, you're talking about the rise and fall of empires and warfare and battling and economics and things like that. Trade talking about the Greeks and mythology, and you're talking about our American history and the Revolutionary War, and you're doing all that stuff. And it's naturally kids are naturally curious about that kind of stuff.

And so it's about how you use that really meaningful content to teach a skill, because then you can evaluate mastery, and you're not like, well, because the other part of it too is, I think that, like, the idea of working memory is such a fascinating thing, right? You're you can put store all this information in the back of your brain and just pluck it out when you need to, right? So I love doing trivia. I love going to a local bar and playing trivia, and I'm good at it because I have a really good memory. But not every person has that memory. You know, you can't. Not everybody can just pluck information from the back of their brain and be like, Here you go. This is the fact, this is the day, this is what this looked like. And so sometimes I think I taught history like trivia, and it was like, Okay, what date did this happen? And then it felt like, once it was over, it was just kind of gone. So do your notes? Do an activity, and there's a quiz, and that's the way I taught. And it wasn't bad, I'm sure it wasn't, you know, I had relationships with the kids, and kids came to school. Kids came to school. We had a good time. Wasn't bad, but it just didn't feel like I could really know if they learned something or not. So when I this year we had this conversation, I was like, We got to get to teaching explicit skills. And so the first thing we did was teach, like, a critical reading process, how to analyze a document for evidence, which I know I just lost like half the podcast crowd, just by even saying that where I go and I'm out. So, yeah, don't give up. Say, hold on, it's gonna it's cool, but like that process of teaching kids how to read a document, how to read a primary source for information, and I had talked with Aimee Yocum, who's a modern classrooms mentor in Sacramento, and I kind of just picked her brain. She touches teaching his eighth grade social studies too. And I was like, how do you do this? Like, how do you implement this? And it caused us to really think about, I feel, I feel so bad for our students in the first trimester this year, because we gave them the notes for so long and they were so much writing. And I was like, This is so much information. I'm so sorry. And so we we stay and what happened was kids started to act up. They were bored. They were like, This is too much. They're starting to act out, you know, because they're just like, I don't have this is too much. And they weren't excited about it. They weren't having fun, and that wasn't going to work for me. So.

So this last in January, we kind of gutted the back down to the rafters, back down to the studs again. And was like, we're going to do shorter lessons. We're going to focus on the skill throughout the entire unit, and we're going to evaluate that skill throughout with the mastery checks. So each mastery check had a component, that same skill kind of repeated along with content. So like, for instance, we so what do we do? So we I taught this critical reading process, and it got a notes. We broke down an article on the page. So I sat down with so I did my video, I talked about the process. I showed I modeled it in a in a video for them. I did it a couple times, and then they practiced with an article. And then their master check was looking at a primary source and just showing me that they could do that. That was the first one, and then the second one was like, Okay, here's here's this conversation around guerrilla warfare and the Revolutionary War. Read this article by Thomas Paine, break it down. What's he talking about, and like showing us that process kind of over and over again. So you can see throughout the unit that they were progressing towards this goal at the end, and they were going to assess them on Monday and kind of see how it's gone. And so I think that that's been a lot better. I feel like the content can they're really engaging with the content. They're not looking at a surface level. They're really diving into it. And we've, we've just developed fun practices that they practice skills. And we, I'll, I'll tell this one story because it was, it's a great picture, the double edged sort of engagement. You know, when kids are really engaged, they're almost like, too engaged, and it's almost annoying how engaged you are. In this lesson, they, uh, my colleague and I, we're in a different Hall, and he has this idea, is okay, I think we should teach him about guerla warfare for the Revolutionary War. So we did our video. We taught him the guerrilla warfare attack, because we taught them what that meant. We taught them meant. We taught them how it happened to the Revolutionary War, and their practice was acting out guerrilla warfare, which you already know is going to be a problem. So they he came in, he had a little cactus that could sing, and he zip tied it to my rafters in my classroom, and he took my office Dundee award and zip tied it to the raptors in his classroom. And the kids where they're aspired to do had to make a plan using these guerla tactics. Another aspire to do was sneak into the other classroom without getting noticed and steal the thing and bring it back so it got out of hand. It got way too out of hand. And I should have known if I was like, Okay, let's try this and see how this goes. 

Zach Diamond  27:18  
Definitely buy in. 

Carson Hickox  27:20  
Yeah, there was a lot. It was almost. They were almost. They thought it was like real. They were like, This is really happening. And we had them make a treaty afterwards, and it was like, they were so mad at each other, and Randy and I were like, because this is not real. This is not like a real thing. This is totally fake. But that's kind of what we took that on to be like we what we need is the practice needs to be meaningful. It needs to practice a skill, and it needs to so they were doing a close reading of an article about guerla tactics and breaking it down, and they were practicing it. They were making it relevant. They were translating into terms that they understood. And so for us, the skill focus was the front end be really explicit about it, and then practice really meaningful and relevant. And their mastery check was just kind of like, Hey, can you explain how these events occurred. Can you show us this document that you annotated?

And so it was really, it's it's been a lot. It's been definitely a new a new perspective. But I think overall, for like evaluation and like knowing what kids know, I mean the content is the content, and the other you kind of either know it or not, like you can go back and I could sit with you and reread an article and have you write stuff down, or go through a notes thing again. That's fine, but I'd much rather give you the skill that you can use in the future to unlock future learning on your own and be more independent with your learning. So you can look at a document and go, Oh, it's a new document. I can break it down, look at this process, and I'll answer it, 

Zach Diamond  28:40  
yeah, yeah. And same, same with the knowledge too, right? Like memorizing the dates and memorizing the events and all that stuff. Like, it's fine, but how valuable is it if you don't have the critical thinking skills or the Compare and contrast skills or the analytical skills, right, to, like, use that information in a way that actually benefits you in the real world, right? 

Carson Hickox  29:01  
And I think too, you know, we would do these, we would do DBQs. We would do, you know, essays. And we sometimes, I think I forgot, I forgot all the skills that go into writing an essay. Like you have to break down a document, and you have to know the vocabulary, and you have to look at a map and look at it for meaning, and you have to do all those pieces. And I think we were getting on kids for their ability to not write an essay. I'm like, I don't think it's how they can't write an essay. I think it's that they can't do these skills to understand this. Do we think we don't we haven't taught them how to do this. And so we're throwing them an essay they can write, analyze these documents, annotate them, and then write an essay about it. I'm like, well, these poor kids, they don't, they weren't given those skills, and so they we didn't teach them that, or, like, I didn't teach them that. And so I had to have a long kind of conversation myself and go, am I really setting these kids up for future success if I'm not given the skills they need to break down this information, because you can't, you can't think critically, if you can't.

To understand what a text is saying, you know? And so, right, yeah. And so that's that was that's been my big philosophical change. I think the first year of MCP was just kind of getting my feet underneath me and figuring out systems. And then this year, it was a lot of Okay, now, what do I do with this curriculum to make it more impactful for kids in the future? And so there's my I feel like, for as a middle school teacher, I am a foundational element of their future learning. And so I want them to be able to go to high school and be able to have this foundation. And I want to be able to go to their social studies class, or any class of non fiction in high school and be able to go, Okay, I know how to do this. My middle school social studies teacher taught me how to break down a text so I can do that. And so, I can do that. And so, well, not they actually remember that, I don't know, but I hope they do. So it's kind of like, fingers crossed that they'll get there and they'll be like, Mr. Hickox, I remember all the critical reading procedures they taught me. 

Zach Diamond  30:55  
I mean, I think, like, it's interesting that you say that, because it so, like, I've mentioned that I just switched from middle school to high school. I'm at the same school, right? And so a lot of the students that I'm teaching are the same ones that I had as middle schoolers, but now they're older, and they remember me, you know? Like, I think that there's value in, obviously, our focus is on learning, and we want our students to grow academically. There really is value in like, fun, just sort of like silly fun, because that's what they actually do remember, you know, like, if they remember loving your class when they're high school seniors, they will have positive feelings about history, right? Even if they don't want to, like, go into studying history, and that's what they'll carry with them throughout high school. I think that my experience has been that, like kids who had positive experiences in my class, maybe when they were in sixth grade, right? And they didn't have me again until this year, and now they're in 11th grade, you know, like they that relationship weirdly, even though we haven't even really interacted that much, they're obviously much older and much more mature. But like, that relationship is still there, and they remember that they're not going to remember the specific music, like knowledge that I taught them, right, which always makes you a little bit sad, too. 

Carson Hickox  32:10  
You're kind of like, right?

Zach Diamond  32:11  
 I know, well, it makes me question, like, actually, how valuable is this? Right? Because what really matters, I really do think like it matters that they enjoy school that kids enjoy school, all of them, right? Because that's how you build lifelong learners. Like, if you make it something that's miserable, obviously they're not going to want to do it. They're going to go home and, like, want to escape school. But if you make it fun, especially when they're at that age when, like, they want to, like, play and run around, you know, they'll, they'll carry that with them for a long time, maybe forever, 

Carson Hickox  32:41  
yeah, and I think I would I totally agree, like, I feel like that's absolutely spot on. Like that process of almost leaning into the chaos, a little bit of what it means to be a middle schooler is like, such an important part of teaching, you know, like you kind of look around and go, Oh my gosh, they're so crazy. Yes, they're 12, they're 13, they're 14. And I sometimes find myself even with my little kids, my son, my two sons, and my daughter, I My wife always tells her, she's like, you treat them like they're adults, like they're not adults, they're not there and like so sometimes, as a teacher, it's hard, because you like, if I could just take my brain and my logic, and just implant it into your brain like everything would go so much more smoothly, but also what it because it actually wouldn't, but like, in my head, I think that it will. And so I'm like, I could just, you can just see, from my perspective, you can see, I can see your future right now, and I just want you to be able to see it. And so I think you're but you're right though. I mean, I think you know, finding those things to make kids enjoy being at school. And that was what, you know, and that was funny, you say that I after this, this guerilla warfare, like I ran down the hall to my work, and I was like, I'm never doing this ever again. Like, I'm like, I'm never, I'm never doing this again. And he was like, listen, at the end of the day, I'm glad that they want to be here. And I was like, that's totally true. I'm like, at the end of the day, I'm like, they want to be here, and that is so valuable. And I'm like, that's true. I got to stop being so, like, in my own discomfort and be more, like, lean into that process and be like, they want to be here and they want to be in school. And there's something about that process that's great, and we have this whole great structure, because anytime someone can jump into that and cannonball in tomorrow, into my classroom, pick up and be like, Hey, we're working on this. So welcome, and here you go, and I won't feel like they're missing out. So I think that that's it's been, it's definitely been a lot, a lot of processing through those different pieces. Middle schoolers, they're they're fine,

Zach Diamond  34:40  
they are. I do sometimes miss the middle schoolers. Sometimes, that's right, and I'm sure that these kids will remember what guerilla warfare is. 

Carson Hickox  34:49  
Oh, yeah. I don't think that's going anywhere. Yeah, 

Zach Diamond  34:51  
yeah. Hey there, listeners. It's Zach dropping in with some announcements and reminders for you. 

Do you want to connect with other educators of color who are creating a more student centered learning environment? Join our shades of excellence. Meet up on Monday, February 24 at 7pm Eastern. Do the students in your community have different needs in a diverse world? That's inevitable, but it can also feel impossible for a teacher or school to meet every learner's needs at once, but there are evidence based ways to help every student achieve their potential. In this Ed leader panel, you'll discover classroom tested techniques that your teachers can use right away to keep each of their students appropriately challenged and appropriately supported every day. Join us on February 25 at 5pm Eastern, speaking of meeting every learner's needs, we're reading Rob Barnett's book meet every learner's needs together as a community. And our second session for the book club is on redesigning courses, and it's sponsored by screen pal. On Wednesday, March 5, at 7pm Eastern, there are links in the show notes where you can sign up for all of this, and you can find more info there. But for now, let's get back into it with Carson. 

So I want to talk a little bit more about your collaboration with this co worker of yours. And you also mentioned that there's a PLC process that your school is implementing. You've already talked quite a bit about collaborating with your coworker, but just sort of more explicitly. Can we talk about that a little bit? And can you tell me more about how that has gone? CO planning in a modern classroom, especially when you're in different content areas? That's interesting to me. 

Yeah. So he teaches, so sorry, so then you're not ELA,

Carson Hickox  36:37  
he was he teaches ELA and social studies, social studies, he teaches both. But he's a whole language arts teacher. He got kind of thrown into social studies as, like, a secondary thing. I hope he never leaves, because if he leaves, I'm gonna be I'm gonna miss him so much, yeah, but I think, but I think what he brings to the table his experience he was, he's been, he's taught for like 20 years, and so he's way more seasoned, just than, like, the tactics and the art of, like, how to bring in skills and explicitly teach those things. So that, for me, is like, a huge resources. I was like, I think be in the weeds a little bit if I didn't know that, but I think so, what we did last year was we just divvied up the workload. So one of the great things about modern classroom, and I feel very comfortable ranting and raving about modern classrooms, because fundamentally, it's transformed the way that I teach, because I had to, like, you can't, you can't be like, it's okay. I'll just have them do a packet. You're like, you know, that's not an option. Like, you're like, You got to be ready to go and, yeah, be like, hey, in a month, we're going to be here. So

the first couple years, feel like you're always kind of catching up. You're kind of always like, okay, then, you know, you're you just finished playing this first unit, and then if you're a week into the new unit, you're like, Okay, well, we gotta start playing the next unit, because that's gonna creep up on us here. And, you know, a month or so. And so Randy and I, my co worker, Randy, we had a really good system last year, just kind of leapfrogging each other with each lesson. So like, I would do the first lesson, you do the second lesson, then we would have a guided notes, we would have a practice and we would have a mastery check that we'd have, like a written mastery check and like a multiple choice mastery check that was just kind of like, you know, do you know the content or not? And then written one that was more like argumentative writing, evidence based stuff. And so that was our rhythm, Monday through Friday. We tweaked that now and kind of slimmed it down, but that process of being like, hey, so I'm gonna do this lesson, and here's and, but before we would sit down, we would go down to like a bar in Redmond, and we would sit and be like, Okay, let's plan out Greece. And a bunch of nerds do two nerds just sitting there talking about Greece for two hours drinking kombucha

Zach Diamond  38:42  
teachers, man. Teachers are so cool.

Carson Hickox  38:47  
Everybody's looking around, like, what are these guys doing? Yeah, anyway, it's a bunch of weirdos just talking Greece, you know, talking Rome and like, like, you know you do on a Friday with your friends and so we so you just sit there, and we just be like, Okay, we're gonna work backwards. So what's our what's our end goal with this unit? How are they gonna show what they know? Are they gonna do an essay? Are they gonna do a project? He comes from a project based learning background, which has been cool to kind of like, dabble into that world a little

bit. And so we just have those conversations. We map it out. We would go, okay, Lesson One is going to be this, and we're going to accomplish. We'd have like, you know, four or five learning goals for the unit. And then we would have each lesson be one of those learning goals, and be like, okay, so lesson one is going to do this, Lesson Two is going to do this, Lesson three is going to this. Lesson Four is going to do this. And it was, it was really good. I think we did too much like, I think we, honestly, in our first year, tried to accomplish, try to like, like, change the world with our teaching, like, in the sense of, like, let's cover everything all the time and do all of it at once. And I think this year we've learned a little bit more about how we can distill information down.

But yeah, so that was the that was that practice of with him, and it was great because, you know, we're looking at, I mean, we were, we're doing universe. So we were doing backwards. Design without really knowing that it was backwards design. We were sitting there, you know, mapping and building our tables and mapping out our units and putting our learning goals in. What vocabulary are they going to know? And it just felt really nice to be with somebody else in that process. And we were all we were, this is terrible. We were calling each other like, 10 o'clock at night, like, Hey, I've got an idea for this next lesson. It was like, we were like, it was like, Mad Men. We were just like, Oh, I got an idea for this next thing, and we were talking through, you know, so it was really fun. It was, it was really exciting. You know, it's kind of like that chaos of doing something new that kind of gets you to kind of keep going, like, Oh man, this is going to be, this is going to be great. And like, the kids obviously didn't always respond the way that I wanted them to, like, with the same equal excitement as I had, but when we were going back and forth, having a lot of fun. We I remember we did this lesson where we taught the three Chinese philosophies of Taoism, Confucianism, Legalism, and instead of like, having to read, we did our guided notes videos, like one of those philosophies. So it was like, it didn't pan out the way we thought, but it was fine it didn't pan out the way we hoped it would. But so, like, we for legalism, we came in and we were just like, yelling, everybody write this down. And then for legal Taoism, we were super, like, calm and mellow, but it was, it didn't really go the way we wanted it to, but the same time, it was just like, Randy and I had a great time, and working together with each other was a lot of fun. So

yeah, so I think that that process of working with him has been great. And then now, you know, having some we're working through in our PLC, which is like a professional learning community, we have a lot to work on. We have a lot to piece together. And our school is in like, year three of implementing a PLC process. And so as a school, we've just all kind of, like grown as teachers, like, just to be more like, we had a great conversation. This is another great thing about the model in our PLC process,

last year, we had this conversation around formative assessments, and we're like, Well, you got to have formative assessments for your PLC. You need to know what they're learning and how they're mastering stuff. And there is all these people are. So everybody else in the room is kind of like formative assessments. We're all talking about it and ran now, just look at each other, and we go, yeah. So we're doing every week like it's just baked into it with the rock creating anything new. It's just part of what we're doing. And so I think Ray looked at me, he goes completely like we were already doing that. And then, so this last PLC meeting that was conversation around tier two interventions, like, what do you do if kids don't know it, and how do you extend learning? And I'm like, Yeah, already got it. Already built it in. 

Zach Diamond  42:20  
Yeah, I love this about modern classrooms. This is sort of a little bit of a tangent, but I feel like Kareem and Rob somehow, like, hit on education gold. I don't understand how they did it, but they did it and, like, there's so many teacher buzz words, right? You mentioned differentiation, all these things, formative assessment, all this stuff that MCP teachers are just like, Yeah, we do that. Like, we got that. We already know 

Carson Hickox  42:44  
we have to, you know, it's like, if you don't, you're I don't know what's happening. You know what I mean? And so, you know, they're like, Oh, you got to build a choice, a choice board for what they do when they're done. And I'm like, Yep, got that? And they're like, What do you do if they don't learn it? Well, I do a small group instruction. Like, how do you do that? It's like, well, I'm teaching through a video. So the kids are rolling and I'm sitting in the back. Sitting the back room classroom with them, and we're sitting down, we're working through it together, so we're differentiating there. And I think, you know, it's, it's just crazy. I mean, it was, and I didn't know that when I first started doing it, like, I wasn't even, like, I wasn't down that that deep of a road with, like, the PLC process to understand that. But then as I got into it, I'm like, I'm just I was so in a lot of ways, I was so blessed to get moved, to move here and be put into that situation. Because when I started teaching with MCP, it was like, Oh my gosh, everything that you want to do with effective teaching is all started to merge together. And I was just like, okay, so I am doing this. Even though I don't know what a formative assessment is, I'm like, I am doing that. And even though I don't know what this, you know, extension piece is, I am doing that. And so it was kind of trippy to be like, Oh my gosh. We're we are doing these things that are effective. And so it was, it's been really great. It's that for that process. So our PLC is still working through that, because we, bro, Randy and I are doing MCP. The other two guys who teach with our teaching a more of a traditional model. And so we're really working through how to, how to link what we're doing with what they're doing to just we can stay aligned within our not, you know, not step for step, but stay aligned as far as what we're assessing, what we're working through, which is a process and learning. So it's like turning a cruise ship. That's the big thing, I've been told is, like, it's not gonna happen overnight. It's gonna be a very slow kind of tweaking as you go along. So, 

Zach Diamond  44:22  
like, course correcting. I've always liked that, that metaphor of, like, you slowly drift back on course, right? Or you change your course slowly, yeah. And I love that, like, kind of just like, throw all the spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks approach, too. I think that you mentioned this before. I think that middle schoolers are, like, uniquely flexible and accommodating of that. I don't know. I've never taught elementary I feel like they probably need more structure, especially the younger ones. And then high schoolers, I feel like might not have the patience for it, right? Because they are like, my experience has been like, they're just, like, down the business, basically, like they just, you know, and obviously there's always Students that don't want to do the work, and you have to work with them, right? But, like, Middle School is a is an age where the teacher can, like, they just bounce back like, you, you something totally bombs one day, and they come back the next day and they're like, totally have moved past it and ready to go with whatever's next. You know?

Yeah, it's, it's remarkable, and I appreciate that you say that to you, because I feel like I just had a conversation with my I had a student teacher in the fall, and she was teaching with me here, and she was, you know, so she was thrown into this mall being like, okay, that's what we're doing. I'll support you. You don't do don't worry about teaching from the front, just for about classroom management, whatever. And now she's at a high school, and she's like, middle schoolers, I couldn't get to stop talking, in high schoolers, I can't get started talking so online. That was my experiment. That's true. You know?

It's weird. 

Carson Hickox  45:47  
So I I appreciate because I feel like they're so candid, they're so just like, blunt. And I just like, we have discussion. This is why, like, doing things like debates and philosophical chairs and Socratic seminars are awesome with middle schoolers, because they just like, let it fly. And I'm like, I like it just, I mean, it's lively. I mean, it's, it's going, I don't know how, like, whether it's directed or not, but middle schools are like, this river, and you're like, I just got to somehow keep you from overflowing. But we'll just let you keep going, you know. And so it's a, it's, it's been, you know, great for that too. I mean, I mean, I couldn't even imagine doing this at a different level, but so, I mean, you're, you probably have that process too, of what it's like to teach at a different level now, and what it looks like to change up how you're doing things for a different age group. 

Zach Diamond  46:31  
Yeah, it's taking me time to shift gears. I'm not gonna lie, at this point, I'm, it's been a semester and like, I'm, I'm happier in high school now, but like, looking at middle school now, I'm like, like, it's wild, you know, like, they just, it's like, it's just what? And I was part of it, like, I, I was just in that and thought it was normal. Like, I thought, like, and now I'm like, Oh, wow, like that, yeah. So anyway, 

Carson Hickox  46:54  
because you know what it's like, right? Someone meets at a bar and they go, like, I'm gonna bars too much, apparently. But like, you know, when you know, when you meet people and you go, Hey, what do you teach? It like, they teach middle school, like, Oh, wow. People just don't do that. When you teach other grades. I don't know what it is about what they're like, Oh my gosh. And I'm like, Yeah, well, it's just kind of my normal. I don't say, 

Zach Diamond  47:12  
Yeah, you don't realize it. If you ever, if you ever go to high school, you'll get middle school and be like, how did I like, what? Yeah, no, it's fine. It's fun. It's definitely fun. There it. I like part of my my like spirit stated in middle school, I think. And some of the high schoolers are like, Mr. Diamond, you're kind of weird. Like, why did you say that? They're like, did you say skip it? Never say that. Don't ever say that to us anyway. 

Carson Hickox  47:40  
That's the best part about teaching middle school. You can drop all that lingo, and they appreciate it, you know,

Zach Diamond  47:46  
man, yeah, I do. I do miss the middle schoolers. It's a fun time down there. And it sounds like the way that you are approaching this is very, like, middle school appropriate, right? Like, let them have fun, try stuff out, yeah? And you can, you're also recognizing right, like, when you've pushed too far, right? And I love that. So my last question for you is, what you hope to see in the future? And I think that that's like, particularly apt here, right? Because you've talked a lot about how the first year was, was like, sort of just, like, on the fly, just doing this total chaos kind of thing, and then this year you're refining. So like, what comes next year? And then beyond, like, what? What goals do you have for your modern classroom after, after this year? 

Carson Hickox  48:25  
Yeah, you know, I think we're still learning like, we're still learning a lot about how to do it, and I think we're also seeing the difference. So we just had a conversation recently in our district and about some data from like, the country as a whole, and specifically Oregon, that like we looked at, like we looked at, just took a snapshot of math scores pre pandemic, and then afterwards. And there's 30% decrease in, you know, achievement in math, and that's probably across a lot of domains. Like, that's not just math, but I think I'm hopeful, like, it's hard, it's hard to say, because I think a lot of things about education for me are, I feel sometimes they're things that I can't control, and that's really hard. You know, there's so many variables that you can't change. So like, what happens to a kid when they go home, whether they're read, what they read when they were kids, what grade they were in when COVID happened, you know? So we're seeing these cohorts come through, and now our seventh graders have started to get a lot more, a lot more academically, like, I think, stronger than our eighth graders were. And so we're seeing this like, difference. I've done a couple lessons that are the same for seventh graders and eighth graders, just to kind of see, like, what happens. And I've seen the seventh graders basically operate at the same level as the eighth graders, because the skill is new to both of them. And so, like, I think I'm just hopeful that, like, next year I won't have to do as much of the skill teaching with this group of seventh graders. I'll be able to, like, refresh it and kind of lock it in, but then we'll be able to do a lot more big discussions and debates with the new. History, and so I'm like, hopeful for that.

I'm hopeful that I I really want my classroom. And this always been that the I think this always like, is the challenge with modern classrooms, the things that that are hard, one of the things that's difficult is fostering, like, I talk a lot about collaboration, like, kids are collaborating naturally, right? They're sharing. They're doing the guide notes together. They're doing the practice together. They're doing X, Y and Z, to kind of that natural business and collaboration together, which is great, but I think, like specifically within social studies, I want to see the students collaborate. I want to build more of a natural rhythm of collaboration where it's like that. We're going to try that with our next unit about the Constitution, and our big goal at the end of it is that kids can have a meaningful debate around a controversial topic and defending their stance with evidence from the Constitution, which is a really heavy lift. That's a huge lift for middle schoolers, and so we're really hoping that we can give them the skills to be able to do that. We're going to practice it throughout the unit, just kind of like debating, you know, conversations and, you know, pro con articles and things like that, so and, but that means you've got to take time from somewhere else, right? You if you're going to do that with your time, you've got to take you've got to pull from somewhere else. And so we're learning how to make our guided notes videos more succinct and more focused, and our practice more specific, and and then having more of our practices be discussions, and then using those as evaluation like, I think that that's kind of like the kind of sweet, like voodoo of like social studies teachers is being able to be like, I'm going to evaluate you using a discussion, as opposed to evaluating you on a multiple choice test, which is a lot harder and takes a lot, maybe it takes more time to be able to do but, you know, finding systems to be able to do that for The classroom, and

so I'm hopeful that that would be, like, a big, like, kind of change. And then I'm just kind of hopeful, like my really desire is for so I don't know how to, like, say it's like, I want to be tactful about this, but I hope that teachers see the model and want to do it. You know, I don't have a dog in the fight like I don't. I'm not, like, a spokesperson for modern classrooms project. I just believe in it, and I believe that it's effective. But you have to be kind of delicate about how you approach that. You know, you don't want to, you don't want to because you're so excited about something. You know, I'd be like, This is amazing. And like, this kid's doing great in my class. Why is he doing so bad in your class? Doing great in mine must be this model that I'm doing. This model that I'm doing, and it just puts people in a place of like, you think you're better than me and whatever. And I don't want to, I don't want to have that kind of like tension with the model, because it's, it has so much value, and it has so much like, it speaks for itself. I don't need to do it. It speaks for itself, and it's impactfulness. And so I'm just trying to be very delicate about that, and trying not to compare it, and trying not to put a position where I'm, like, putting traditional classroom teaching versus, like a modern classrooms approach, and putting them at odds with each other, which is why it's good for our PLC to kind of like,

figure out what it looks like to partner in a collaborative environment where you're creating stuff together and you're assessing the same stuff together, but you're also teaching in two different ways. And how you do that, that requires a lot of tact, and there's a lot of just gotta just be careful. Just gotta be careful about how you do that. So that doesn't you don't make something that somebody can't do, like I don't create a lesson that, like my friend, my colleagues, can't do in their traditional classroom. And then you're also working through how you assess things. And my principal was really great. He was like, just let the data speak for itself. If the model really is impactful, then if you teach the same thing, and your kids come out with a different, more in depth knowledge, then that just speaks for itself. You don't need to defend it. Just you can just go like, this is this is this is what it is. And so I'm hopeful that that will be more of a thing, and that we'll see some more curiosity around and some more buy in. I have some people from our district coming to observe my classroom and see it kind of an action and and I think that that's, that's, that's what I'm excited for, for the for the model. And I'm also just excited to, like, get to a third year and be like, Okay, I think I kind of have, like, the model built. I won't have to create as much in my next, like, coming years, did a lot of, did a lot of creating these last two years. And so I'm hopeful that and kind of find a rhythm where it's like, okay, I feel like I've kind of got a flow to things a little bit. So yeah, that's what, that's what I hope for. 

Zach Diamond  54:19  
Yeah, I like that a lot. And I like a lot what you said about the sort of tactful approach to sharing the model, I think, you know, as modern classrooms has sort of disseminated after the pandemic, especially, you know, like, we've really sort of honed in on the way that, not honed in, I guess, the opposite of that, honestly, like, teachers can implement the model piecemeal, right? Like, I think that good teaching practices don't have to be like branded with MCP, you know? And so I think that the idea of a PLC where you're sharing your way of doing things, and other teachers are sharing their ways of doing things, like you both have stuff to learn from each other. There, and I agree with you, right? Like my, my style of teaching just fits perfectly with MCP, basically, the way that it's written, right? And so that's great for me. But you know, if someone else came in with an equally amazing model and tried to pressure me into changing, I, I kind of bristle at that, right? Like, I, you know, because I've got, I'm I'm good, I know what I'm doing now, and always, I always have a lot more to learn and ways to improve, right? Like, that's not what I'm saying, that I'm, like, perfect or anything, but, but definitely, like sharing is 

Carson Hickox  55:34  
close, close. 

Zach Diamond  55:35  
Well, I'm trying. We're trying. Like, sharing, is it right? Not not sharing, not being like you have to try MCP. You have to try this model. And I feel like MCP as an organization, has always sort of had that line. And I remember they were very adamant at the beginning about not forcing teachers into the training, right? It had to be something that teachers themselves wanted and and, yeah, like that. That makes sense to me, because I as a teacher, like I said, like, I don't like being told how to teach. I mean, if I have questions, I want to ask them, you know, but I've been to too many PDS where it's like, this is the way to teach, right? This is the way to do it, yeah? Well, I don't know that that resonated with me a lot. What you said. And so 

yeah, and I should have said this at the beginning,

Carson Hickox  56:24  
I would really encourage people specifically, if you're in Oregon and you're listening to like this podcast, or if you're in another state where you have educational districts, like we have a lot of equity initiatives through Oregon and the CO and our Central Oregon regional Educators Network here. And I've talked with Sean Aker a couple of times. He's over in Willamette Valley, just kind of did MCP over there and built that. And I was just going to say, like, I got into this, I couldn't afford to step into the model, like, I just couldn't afford to pay for to do that program. And so I went to our regional Educators Network and was like, Hey, I've got this idea, this model. It's proven. It's data driven. It has evidence that's worked. I think it'd be a great way to to as an as an equity measure to support all students. We talk about that all the time, I got to support all students and teachers. Just go how, how you know what I mean. And so having that resource of being that we'll pay for you to do this virtual mentorship program will help you get this will help you get headphones for your classrooms that you can build those little logistical things like, those are, those are barriers. But I mean, to call them, be like, hey, I need, you know, I have two other colleagues doing I need 60 more headphones. They're like, Sure, we'll buy them for you. We'll get you that. And so I think, like, that's been a huge, huge, just resource. I mean, I don't know, like, that was, if I didn't have that, it would have been a lot harder to do this. And so I'm really thankful that there was resources like that available. And I would just encourage people, you know, this is, this is this is making learning possible for everyone. This is making this is closing, just making it accessible for kids to be able to do learning. And it's hard. You got to give up a little bit of yourself. You like to be in front of people. You're going to have to let that go. But I do think that, you know, it's, it's so meaningful and the most equitable thing we can do is give people access to education, and give them access to a to a quality education and quality teachers. And so finding that path to it has been, you know, huge for me. And so

it's been, yeah, amazing. Just so I just like, shout out to my regional Educators Network, shout out to my co worker. Shout out to Megan Remmel, who was my mentor for the program, and to everyone that's kind of helped, because this last year was so hard, and it was but it was so hard. I don't say it was hard. It was it was it was challenging, it was stretching but it was so meaningful, and the community of people I had around me just made that I wouldn't have been able to do it without the people that came to support me. So if they're listening to it, I just would tell them that I appreciate so much that the help that they gave me and Aimee Yocum in Sacramento just that she would share all of her magical lessons she made with me to use. I'm just like, This is crazy. So, yeah, just super appreciative all those things. That community is so important, and it's been great. 

Zach Diamond  59:11  
Yeah, no, the modern classrooms community is really strong. Carson, do you have any resources for those Oregon programs, like those state programs that you mentioned, that you could share? 

Carson Hickox  59:21  
So there's a, we have several. I mean, I hope that people know this in Oregon specifically, but we have several regional educators networks. So they're, like, they're usually, there's a state fund for regional educators. Now, as far as I know, I don't know all the magic about it, but I know there's, like, a, there's a funds that are given to basically regional or educational districts. So we have our Redmond bend uh, Madras Cook County sisters districts. And there's a there's an umbrella organization called the high desert educational service district. And the REN falls under that. There's those throughout the state. And these.

Uh, they're funding These things called change ideas. Oh, cool. So you'll be like, hey, I need 1000 bucks to do this at my school. And you kind of make them a proposal, and you say, and if they have the funds to be able to do it, okay, I need these resources to be able to do that. I'm on the board for our one here in in that one in here in Central Oregon. And so I was like, Hey, I have this idea. I need X amount of money to be able to pull it off, because I had headphones, so they just kept breaking. So I was like, I just need, I need to get some like headphones I can twist and bend and rip and wrench around and they won't break. And so they got me these awesome headphones that are indestructible, so kids can just do whatever they want with them and they won't break. And so they funded me to do that. And so I was just encouraged, yeah, reach out to those I know. And I think that Willamette, the Willamette Valley, ESD, which was my friend Sean, that was doing that, they actually funded, they gave people a stipend to do the virtual mentorship program, so that if teachers wanted to was available. That's a big part of it too, is like, just making sure, like, it's, it's got to be teacher driven. It as soon as, as soon as, as soon as, for better for worse, as soon as a the bosses step in and like, Hey, we're doing this. It's like, oh, I'm already out 100% exactly 100% Yeah, yeah. And so letting it be teacher driven, that's what I've always appreciated about it's kind of raw, and it's gritty, and, you know, it's video, I mean, I mean, I made a video at three o'clock in the morning at the Austin airport because I forgot to make my video, and I was on vacation, I had to stop and make a video at two o'clock in the morning and be like, I just can do right here in the airport. It's like, that's just kind of, you know, that's part of the process, is like, it's not polished, it's not perfect. And so I think people seeing that is really funny. Kids seeing that too, I think is really important to, like, all sorts of mistakes that are made, you know. So, yeah, 

Zach Diamond  1:01:48  
cool. Well, so this has been incredible. What a great discussion. And I love, I love hearing, I love these podcast episodes where we get to, kind of, like, talk about the nitty gritty of, like, how it goes, you know, like rolling it out, collaborating, planning and all this stuff. This has been incredible. Carson, thank you so much. How you mentioned the community also. So if our listeners wanted to connect with you, how could they do that? 

Carson Hickox  1:02:10  
Yeah, yeah, please reach out. Like if you need anything, if I can help, you know, with whatever it can help with, you can reach me. At Carson, dot Hickox, C, A, R, S, O, N, dot H, I, C, K, O, x, at modern classrooms.org, I think I have an Instagram account. It's just my first and last name, Carson Hickox. Is it at Insta? Is it at Instagram? I'm glad I don't have a weird Instagram handle, so that's good, just my known normal name Instagram. And then, you know, I have, I think that's really I'm on Strava. I know, I know they can find me on Strava if you want to follow me. I know Sean did that with his so if you want to follow me on Strava, well, you're welcome to hit me up on Strava as well and follow all my cool routes. We can compete with each other. That'd be fun. 

Zach Diamond  1:02:53  
I will drop all of these in the show notes. Well, again, thank you so much, Carson, this has been incredible. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing all of your all of your experiences. 

Carson Hickox  1:03:02  
Yeah, thanks for having me and thank and thank you and Toni Rose. I mean, I listen, I said this at the start of the podcast. I have listened to this thing, this podcast on my runs, on driving, commuting for the last like, year and a half, and it's hearing all the other teachers. It is. I mean, I took a lot of stuff from other teachers, and so I appreciate you guys taking time to do this, because it's been really meaningful for me. So I appreciate it. 

Zach Diamond  1:03:27  
Well, thank you. I appreciate that. And I feel like that's kind of why we do it, right? Like I learned the best from other. I feel like it's that's in the intro, right? Like we learn best from each other, and that's what this whole thing is for, just to talk about how it is, you know, so awesome. 

Well, listeners, remember, you can always email us at podcast at modern classrooms.org and you can find the show notes for this episode at podcast.modernclassrooms.org We'll have this episode's recap and transcript uploaded to the modern classrooms blog on Friday, so be sure to check there or check back in the show notes for this episode if you'd like to access those also, we're asking our listeners to leave a review if this podcast has been helpful in supporting you to create a blended, self paced, mastery based learning environment, because that does help other folks find the podcast. Thank you all for listening. Have a great week, and we'll be back next Sunday.

You music. Thank you so much for listening. You can find links to topics and tools we discussed in our show notes for this episode, and remember. You can learn more about our work at www.modernclassrooms.org and you can learn the essentials of our model through our free course at learn.modernclassrooms.org you can follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram, at modernclassproj, that's P, R, O, J, we are so appreciative of all you do for students in schools. Have a great week, and we'll be back next Sunday with another episode of the modern classrooms project.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai