Zach Diamond  0:03  
Welcome to the modern classrooms project podcast each week we bring you discussions with educators on how they use blended, self paced and mastery based learning to better serve their students. We believe teachers learn best from each other, so this is our way of lifting up the voices of leaders and innovators in our community. This is the modern classrooms project podcast.

Toni Rose Deanon  0:28  
Hello and welcome to the modern classrooms project podcast. My name is Toni Rose Deanon, they them pronouns, the designated hype person here at MCP, and y'all I am joined today by the Alabama Teacher of the Year, first grade teacher, MCP implementer, Katie Collins, welcome Katie.

Katie Collins  0:46  
Well, hello. I am so honored to be on this podcast today, because, you know, I'm a fan girl of MCP, right? Y'all know that?

Toni Rose Deanon  0:54  
Yes, yes, yes. And so it's, I mean, you have such a busy schedule, and busy in the most beautiful way, right? Because you're you're you have all these opportunities to be in front of educators all across Alabama, and then, I guess, just like getting used to being the Alabama Teacher of the Year, right? Because there's a lot of things that go along with that as well. So I'm really excited to hear about what that looks like for you, what that feels like, and what that sounds like, and how it's shifted or and or enhanced a lot of what you're doing, right? So again, it's so exciting to be in this space with you. And thank you so much for saying yes to the podcast. I too am fan girling over all the things that you've been doing. So I'm really excited. So before we get started, Katie, what is bringing you joy currently?

Katie Collins  1:39  
Oh, wow. Well, first of all, getting to talk to you, tiny rose that's bringing me joy. My garden is blooming right now. I do. Are you a garden girl?

Toni Rose Deanon  1:50  
I am not a garden girl, but I do appreciate my sister's trying to be, and my dad has like the best green thumb ever. So, you know, grew up with gardening, grew up with agriculture, all of that good stuff. So what do you what are you planting? What are you growing?

Katie Collins  2:03  
Well, so I have my garden in my front yard because we we have our backyard. I mean, you can kind of see my backyard right now, but it's there's trees in the back, and we ended up taking down a bunch of trees, but before that, I mean, you need six hours of sunlight to grow a garden, and y'all, if you don't have six hours of sunlight, you really just need to find the sun and plant there, and then you'll feel happy because it will grow. But my husband built a little we call it a cottage garden, and it we call it a cottage garden because it's literally in my front yard, because that's where the sun is. And I'm growing zinnias and veggies and dahlias and, you know, cucumber and watermelon, which I've never really been very successful, but we're still trying. We have a growth mindset, so, yeah, just I have a ton of stuff, but I'm really happy because with being like a mom of four and teacher this new crazy title Teacher of the Year, like I'm still like, what's happening, and just ending the school year, I did not it took me a while to get my plants in the ground, and they are now in the ground, and They are doing their thing. So that brings me joy,

Toni Rose Deanon  3:24  
and I'm so happy that you're still making time to do that, right? Because we can easily say like, oh, I don't have time, or, like, all of these things are prioritized over this thing. That brings me joy. I'm chuckling at the thought, because it's in your front yard, right? Because typically it's in the backyard, and so people get to see all the things that you're growing. And I think I recently came across the cottage garden wording phrase, and I think that that's really cool, that that's what it is, kind of like, you know, we're just growing all kinds of stuff and in front of the house. And so that's really dope,

Katie Collins  3:57  
well, and also it's cool, because when I'm working in my garden, if I were working in my backyard, I wouldn't we live, like, on a pretty busy street, but like, it has a great sidewalk right in front of it. So, like, it's so fun to be in my garden and then be like, Well, hey, Mr. Kevin, or, you know, how's your dog? We just don't, as a society, honestly, set ourselves up a lot of times for, like, real, like, communication with people. I know that sounds weird, and like, I love the fact that we have technology. Technology is amazing. Like, right now I'm getting to talk to you in Atlanta, and you get to talk it to me in my bedroom. But like, it's just really cool to be able to be in community with people.

Toni Rose Deanon  4:39  
Yeah, it's that personal interactions, right, that we're lacking, and that is that is such a beautiful thing too, that you're able to be outside and meet your neighbors and have conversations and interactions with folks who are living around you. And that's something that I am also learning and embracing, is the fact when I walk my dogs around the neighborhood, I have met so many neighbors the past couple. Weeks, because they're like, Oh, you're always out here walking the dogs. And I just wanted to come and say hello, and so that's been really fun. So I love that you brought that up. And I do feel like, you know, it's a great segue to our conversation as well, because I got to observe you in your classroom, in your first grade classroom, right?

Katie Collins  5:17  
Yeah. 

Toni Rose Deanon  5:18  
And how fun. That was so beautiful.

Katie Collins  5:21  
 My first graders thought you were so cool. By the way, I've been like, they were like, bye. Miss Collins, Hey, Miss Tony rose, I loved you.

Toni Rose Deanon  5:32  
Loved you, I mean, and you were so great with them. And I could tell that one of your values, one of the things that you really prioritize, is building that community and lifting up every single one of your students because you gave them so many opportunities to collaborate, to have conversations before sharing it out loud with the whole group, right? So it was a lot of like, Hey, turn and talk. We did this turn and talk now and then we'll share it out. And then there were times also where you were like, Okay, you need to turn and talk first, and then you can show us where, you know, where do you grab your the stuff that you need to do, self pacing. Where can you find, you know, the posters and like, the materials that you need. And then also, like having students come up and have and point out, like, Okay, how do you know if you're finished? Like, how do you know, if there's a must do or should do and aspire to do, what icons are you looking for? So it was really a community base, and you did that all in, I mean, it was whole group, right? Because typically, sometimes when folks think about modern classroom, there's no time for whole group anymore. And it's like, no, no, there is time for whole group. It's just so much more intentional when we're in a whole group, and you did such a great balance of whole group and then collaboration. Right now in our now you're interacting with each other, and then now you're also hyping each other up, because you're like, oh my gosh, let's clap, because this kid knew exactly where to go, and it was just such a beautiful thing to see. 

Katie Collins  6:56  
Well, that is honestly one of the reasons I know it sounds like modern classroom. Like, when people hear probably about modern classroom, they're like, hey, well, there's we're gonna take out the human part of it. And that is absolutely not true. Like, in fact, modern classroom has enabled my classroom to folk to really be like, a tighter knit community. I know it sounds so crazy because, like, I'm doing some we're doing asynchronous learning, but it's not the case if you set up modern classroom, the way that modern classroom is is meant to be set up. It is so beautiful, like I am working with kids more than I am if I'm just teaching in a whole group, I am getting to really, truly collaborate. I'm getting to also empower? Well, I'm not empowering kids. Are empowering themselves to lead out. And there is so much motivation with modern classroom. And I'm telling you, I started modern classroom and I became a believer. I taught a class the year, the group of kids that are now going into fifth grade, okay, I started modern classroom when those kids were in first grade, okay, and so I need to tell you, like, this group of kids started kindergarten, six feet apart, in masks, okay, this group of kids started kindergarten, honestly, on a computer, on a device, but like, not with the hands on concrete. And so I the year after that group of kids was in kindergarten, I had them at first grade, and Tony rose, I'm not kidding you, this was the most challenging. I love them so much. It's not on them, it was just on a little thing called a global pandemic. But they were, like, it took me 12 weeks. 12 weeks, it's insane. But they did not know the behaviors of school. They did not know how to, honestly, like, have conversations with each other, putting their stuff in a folder took 12 weeks, I'm not kidding you. And so if I'm sitting here trying to teach a child how to learn, there has to be they have to have autonomy, and they have to be able to have that self efficacy, and they just wasn't there. And so I'm going to tell you, I started modern classroom and became a believer when this group of kids that took 12 weeks, 12 weeks to put their stuff in a folder, could do modern classroom, I became a believer when I saw the power and the motivation and the honestly, the mentorship of student to student, and the leadership and I've not been at the same teacher since,

Toni Rose Deanon  9:44  
you know, it's really interesting, because I remember sitting with some of your students, Katie, and I was like, Hey, What are y'all doing? And of course, like, the kids are so respectful, and they're like, Okay, I'll tell you, right? But it was also just like, can you now leave so I can actually learn. I. Had to be really quick with the conversations, because students were just so focused, and, like you said, motivated to get right to their lessons and then have those conversations with their peers. And so I guess my follow up question is like, Why do you think they were so motivated to complete it right? And I know you said the autonomy piece, the autonomy piece is so important, but is there anything else that kind of tied in with the motivation piece, because I know I hear teachers all the time say, like, our kids are kids are not motivated. They're not motivated. They don't want to do this. How did you, you went from like, teaching kids how to put papers in a folder, you know, for 12 weeks to now being able to access all the resources that they need and be become self directed learners? How did you how did you get them motivated, or how did the model motivate them?

Katie Collins  10:44  
Honestly, honestly, honestly, honestly. Kids can do more than we think they can. Honestly, like, it's just an expectation. It's a paradigm shift. It's like, I'm not going to do this. For all of you. You are so stinking capable, and so when that one kid, like had success and knew exactly where to put their mastery check, oh my goodness, you just say, Whoa, Johnny. Did you guys see that? And you just say, like, Wow. You look at what Johnny did. And then guess what Susie wants to do, what Johnny did. And then Susie is actually teaching Cindy over here, or Taj over here, like, Hey, you can do this too, and it's just so much more powerful than if I'm like, All right, guys now put your stuff in the master you check, okay, like they are capable. They are capable. And they honestly, that's how they they're not like, they're not they're not dumb, and they're not even that, like, they are able to understand, like, what I believe that they can do. And if I believe that they can just do this, you know, they're just going to do this, but if I believe that they can do this, they can even do higher like, it's just, I'm not doing anything. It's just the format. It's the way it's structured. And it's just honestly getting them hyped up about it and promoting that, like positive vibe around independence. 

Toni Rose Deanon  12:12  
Yeah, and I was going to say to you, for listeners, Katie, if you can't see this, Katie was doing that, if you believe they can do the lower expectations, right, they'll definitely just do lower expectations that if you hire like if you increase those expectations, and they'll also meet those expectations. So I think, you know, that was something that I wrote about even before you said it like you were just so good at the positive reinforcement. I think it was just being able to name what the kids did really well and celebrating it in front of the whole class. I always say that that's probably one of the easiest things that you can do as an educator. It costs you no money. It costs no resources. You literally just say, oh my goodness, Johnny knows exactly what the steps are, so let's celebrate that, right? And I'm all about that. It's the little celebrations. Is being recognized. Even as adults, we loved being recognized so that it just kind of showcases like, oh, people are paying attention, and they're seeing my effort. They're seeing what I can actually do, no matter how tiny it is, right?

Katie Collins  13:12  
Absolutely, absolutely and even, like, as a first grade teacher, I think one of the first MCP units that I do is a narrative writing. And like, these are kids that are just, they don't have all the, like, the phonetic sounds, but they're writing, and we want them to write a narrative piece. And you know, some kids are like, have a fear. And so I think you start by like, there's going to be a child that is not able to even do a string, like, a string word like, like, not even able to, but you praise that picture that they do, and you praise, like, I can see in this picture that you're you you wanted to walk your dog, but then your mom said, No. Like, I can see that that is so good that you're putting those details in there. And so you're just, like, honestly speaking into existence, something that might not be there yet, but they believe like, Oh, wow. They my teacher can see my stories and my thoughts, and it's amazing how just that, like, when you are able to speak in life into those kids, like what they can do,

Toni Rose Deanon  14:19  
it's the validation, right? It's all the validation.

Katie Collins  14:23  
I was just validation. It's like, doing more than they thought they could, but, like, they've been able to do it the whole time,

Toni Rose Deanon  14:29  
yeah? And I also have to say too, Katie, you know, you were like, no, no, it's not me. It's a format. It's really the kids. And I also want to point out that, like, you are the creator, the facilitator of this environment, right? And because you're so positive, you created a learning environment where our students feel safe and brave, to make those mistakes, to ask those questions, to move as they need to move, to to get the skills and the standards that they need to get. I think that's also kudos to you, right? And I think it's just so important too. That's why I always say, like a hype person, is so needed. Like they're worth every penny that you spend on them. Because people forget, especially our students, forget our greatness. They forget like they forget their own greatness. They forget their own magic. Because society, right, just always saying like, Oh, you're not either you're not good enough, or you got to do it this way, or you got to show up this way for you to actually make a difference. And it's like you were just always there, providing the positive reinforcement, providing the celebrations for students. And, you know, you mentioned also that it's a paradigm shift, right? Of like, Hey, you got to believe that your students can do the things we're talking about first graders, these are still babies, right? How did you Have you always had that mindset of, like, you know, what my students can do all these things, so I'm gonna encourage them and invite them to do all of these things. How did you go? Yeah, how did you have that mindset?

Katie Collins  15:51  
Okay, well, I need to, like, go back a little bit about just like, how I've transformed as an educator. I went into teaching, I've been, I wanted to be a teacher since, like, I was little. I mean, I it was just in, it was in my DNA, like I just knew it. I never really thwarted. But I started off as a high school French teacher, and when I say that I was 23 I had just literally did not, like, I had to stop shopping at H M, because I was 23 and I had to, like, go to Marshalls and find the most Memaw clothes, so I looked like I was maybe 28 and so then I was also doing my student teaching in my own classroom, okay? And I was also teaching French, and I was also teaching a CT prep, which they told me that was going to be like an enrichment class, and they are the biggest liars, and then a computer class, and then JV and varsity basketball. So here I was doing my student teaching in my classroom, not knowing that, like, okay, are kids supposed to be talking when I talk, I'm speaking like, literally, I had the greatest mentor who would tell me after school, like, No, you need to work on your classroom management. But I felt like, because I had to prove like, I'm I'm old enough, like, I did not realize that teachers are never going to have it together. We're never going to be there yet, we're never gonna have like we're gonna make mistakes. And so I think freedom came to me as an educator when I realized I needed to be authentic for my students. I need to model what it means to be a learner, and I needed to model I needed, number one, I needed to embrace something called the growth mindset myself, so that I could model how learning is just a bunch of failing, which is sad, because we don't like to fail, especially teachers. We love an A plus, plus, but I mean, that's just being authentic about the learning process like and I think that that's so important we do not. And I tell my kids all the time, I'm like, I am so I am making mistakes that I just learned from that and and we just read a book called a kid's guide to failure, and just modeling. We came up with a little chant after reading that book, and we say it, we just stop and say it, and we like, clap for failure. We try, we fail. We get back up and I say, this is the most important part. We learn from it. We try again and we don't give up. And I'll ask my kids, like, I get disappointed failing, and I say, Okay, should I go cry in the corner right now? And they're like, no, don't do it. And I'm like, Okay, well, just modeling that we're gonna fail, but we can get back up and we are, most importantly, we're gonna, we're gonna make a better prototype this time. We're gonna learn from that. 

Toni Rose Deanon  18:51  
Oh, that's so beautiful. I mean, it's the modeling piece, right? Like we always say, Oh no, not even say. There's always kind of like this unsaid expectation, do as I say and not as I do, right? And so for you to name No, I really had to be authentic, and I had to kind of be vulnerable, if not be all the way vulnerable, and talk about how we're humans out here, so we're going to make all the mistakes. And I think that's the fun thing about learning, is that you get to fail over and over and over and over again, and then you just get better every single time. And I do love the shift now in education that there's a lot more conversations about embracing mistakes, about embracing failures, because you know what? Now you know that that's a lesson right? That's a lesson learned. What is something that we can shift to make that a little bit better, right? So, oh my gosh, this is so great. I love this. And, you know, Katie, I was also thinking, you know, you were teaching French high school French, right?

Katie Collins  19:52  
Yeah, we'll say

Toni Rose Deanon  19:54  
period. Okay. How did you end up with first. Graders,

Katie Collins  20:00  
okay, you know? Like, I just find that, um, I have a little bit of the ADHD. I mean, I really do. I think that that's part of just who I am. But, like, my path and education is absolutely not linear. I started off as a high school French teacher, and I told you about all the little hats I wore. Hats I wore. I learned so much in those first two years. And then there was a job. I had gotten certified to be an El teacher at the time. It was called English as a second language. And there was a job opening five minutes from my house, and my other job was 30 minutes from my house. So I was like, You know what? I'm gonna do this. And so it was really, truly, like going from high school and then all of a sudden it was like a dive into the elementary world. However, I think that I was just in the secondary world with, like, the word elementary teacher on my forehead, and I didn't know it, because I was really teaching, like kindergarten to the to the students, like I was teaching, like, bonjour, you know, all the fruits and all the things that you would be learning in kindergarten, the colors, the numbers, you know. And I just loved working. It's just like, all of a sudden I was like, This is my home. This is where I'm supposed to be, and I could go back and teach high school. But I was also 23 and I it just didn't feel like this was my home. I felt like a little bit like, almost like, a little bit robotic, like, I have to say the right thing, I have to and so like coming to the first grade. I mean, no, I was really, honestly working with kindergarten through fifth grade. I side note the first day I was there, the students did not know, like, I called my high school friends, and I was like, You're not gonna believe this. Nobody can tell me their name, nobody can tell me which bus they're on. This is insanity. But just loved it. I loved my work as El, and then I got to help start a family literacy program in Hoover city schools. It just It was not my place. I loved working with the immigrant population. And then my district found out I could teach French, and so they were like, and now you're going to be voluntold and go to the middle school and you're going to be the French teacher and El teacher. And it was awesome. Like, middle schoolers are hilarious. I think I'm more of a middle schooler, middle school teacher than I am a high school teacher, but I ended up at that time, I had been kind of here and there, and you know, I was craving my own four walls. I was craving my own community. And so I got certified to do K through six, and I taught first grade, and I had EL students in my classroom, and I knew best practices, so I got to really, really do what I'd love to do with the group of kids that I love. So yeah,

Toni Rose Deanon  22:53  
that's such a great journey there. So thank you for sharing, because I know, I mean, I, I agree with you, Middle School is where it's at I think I went the opposite way, because you did High School and then elementary Right? Like for me, I went into school thinking I was going to be an early childhood teacher, and that was what I wanted to be, and then the universe had other plans and ended up being a middle school teacher. And I loved it. It was so much fun. And you were right. I also was certified, like I got my masters in English as a second language, because that's what it was called back in the day. And so I just like you, I'm seeing a lot of familiarity here and and I love it so much. I love hearing your story. So getting to hear this side of you, Katie is just so beautiful. And so, you know, we're thinking about first graders, and you're like, perfect for the littles, because you have so much patience, you have so much joy and you have so much creativity when it comes to getting our first graders to understand exactly what self pacing means, what autonomy, what being, what having autonomy means. And so like, I'd love to know if you had any kind of challenges with littles, because I often hear also from educators like littles can't do that. You know, littles can't self pace. They can't they can't do A, B, C, D. And I know that you had said, Hey, if you have high expectations, they're going to meet those expectations. But what were some of the challenges that you came across when you were trying to shift from a traditional teaching to more of a self paced, blended and mastery based learning.

Katie Collins  24:21  
Well, what really is coming to my mind right now is kind of one of my passion projects for this year, and it's, have you read the book The anxious generation?

Toni Rose Deanon  24:35  
Okay, I started it, and then I got anxious and I stopped.

Katie Collins  24:40  
Listen, there's like a Jonathan Haidt, the author has like, a 45 minute like recap of the whole thing. So it should lower your effective filter, and you should be able to like, but basically the whole gist of that whole book is that we as a society, and by the way, I've got to say this like, I adore technology. T I was on a panel about AI yesterday, and I'm learning myself. Obviously, we all are, it's not like we've got to embrace technology, and technology is incredible and it's a tool, but it's a tool. And so this whole book is the fact that it goes back to, like, the historical setting of the the iPhone, which is in my hand at the moment, came about in like, 2007 2008 and with that came just instant everywhere, like you can have everything is instant, all of a sudden, and also social media, so, like, all of a sudden, we're connected in a different way than we ever have been. And the thought is that we are over protecting our children in the real world, and we're under protecting them in the virtual world. Now, like the thing about it is technology is a tool, and it is powerful, and in the way that our children's brains are developing is is becoming a different way than it was, like, say, in the 80s, when I was running around like barefoot, playing outside, my mom had no idea where I was, but I did come home when that sun went down and We had, like, a concrete, very, very concrete childhood. And the thing is, is kids have lost their the independence piece, and it's because of honestly society. And I am a mom of four kids, and so this is like a whole rare in a new space and time with how what our kids have access to what they are actually don't have access to, which is like the, you know, what Jonathan height talks about is like the phone best. The kids that are in our classrooms right now have been raised in a phone based childhood, so a lot of their life is on this as opposed to a play based childhood, which we know cause and effect and self efficacy and trial and error, and then kids are just not having those opportunities. So this is my passion project. This year. There is an organization called let grow. It's called The let grow experience, and I really believe that technology let grow experience modern classrooms like we can all exist in this space together. Because if we do need children to have opportunities to get out of their comfort zone and to try things and to fail and to be okay with failing, because this isn't their first time to fail like they feel failed repeatedly, but we are taking away that adversity for kids like just overall as a society. And so this experience is helps. I piloted it last year in my first grade class, and like Toni Rose, I saw incredible results. And let me tell you what it is, okay. I need to say it one more time, like the let grow experience, let grow.org kids. So it's so cool. It's K through 12, free curriculum. But I think K through eight has kind of the same format. And then I'm going to be working with a high school this year, with, actually, the student government, to get the kids like, you know, rallying around this independence, this paradigm of independence. But what I did was I talked about the theme the first, let's say the first month of September. And it's actually really good to do like, collectively, like as a whole school. But I did it just in my little first grade classroom. I talked about independence. There's a PowerPoint they showed you like, give, gave me, and it was like, 10 minutes of hey, have you ever gotten out of your comfort zone? What does that look like? Have you ever done something that you've always wanted to try but you've never really been able to try? And so I said, I'm home with, like, the little literature that's like, about why we're doing this. Because the kid, the kids that are sitting in our classroom are the most anxious, and they are the most depressed children that we've ever had to date. And so this is what it went like. Okay, guys, if we're gonna try something at home with your parents permission, go do it. And so I had kids come back, and there's that metacognition piece, and they come back and they fill out a leaf. And so this is what it looked like in my first grade. Six year olds and seven year olds are seven year olds are doing this. So Lily Kate came back and was like, Miss Klein and told the whole class, like, Guess what I did for my independence project? Because this is a homework assignment. I made sweet potato fries and the air fryer all by myself. Lucas his mom, like, messaged me and was like, What have you done to Lucas? He vacuumed the entire house all by himself. And it's that same mentality, that same thing that I was telling you about with modern classroom, like kids can't do it, and they always have been able to do it, but we are not believing that they can do it, and therefore they're not doing. It. And so, like, I actually, as a mom, my youngest was in first grade this year. Yep, we went to school together and we were on the same hall. But grant, like, it actually helped me as a parent realize, like, okay, like, I am over protecting my kids in the real world. And this is an example. Like, we were at a baseball game, and Grant was cold. I told him beforehand, get your jacket. Did he get it? No, he did not. But I he was really cold, and so I sent him to the car, which I would it actually made me think I could go to the car and get this out. But number one, I'm annoyed. Number two, that's not a natural consequence for him. And number three, like, because I have been doing this, like, independence with my kids in my classroom, like he can do it. So I said, okay, here are the car keys. I knew it was low stakes, it was low risk, but it was an opportunity for him. And so he went this summer. He went to the hardware store with his little wagon. I told him what to get. I called Mr. Donald, the hardware store owner, and I said, Hey, he's gonna have my credit card all as well. You know, because people are not used to seven year olds walking a half mile or three fourths of a mile to get bags of soil and have a credit card. So it's really just the paradigm shift, and I think that that has been very helpful, and that's what I'm really passionate about. Because why are teachers tired? It's not because we don't like heads anymore. It's not because we just realize we don't make a lot of money. It's because the landscape in our classroom has changed.

Toni Rose Deanon  31:38  
All of that, yes, and you know, even when, first of all, that's incredible. Katie, I loved, I love seeing this progress, this growth, this journey of yours, of like, you know what I'm going to relinquish control. I understand now that I've been over protective, and I want to just allow multiple opportunities for students, for little kids, to show up for themselves and be self directed learners, right? Because a lot of the times, that's where learned helplessness comes in. Because as teachers, we just want to save all the time, right? We just want to say, Okay, you're having a hard time. Here's how to do it. And it's like, no, no, let's, let's let our kids struggle for a little bit longer, right? And then when you when you ask, Why are teachers tired? And as I was thinking about that conversation, or the thing that you just said, I'm like, teachers are tired because we're still doing a lot of the work ourselves. 

Katie Collins  32:25  
Mm, hmm. And it's it like we know that the highest form of learning is, like, the application piece and the struggle and the failing, and so, like, we don't we don't want failure, but like, kids don't know how to fail. They don't know how to struggle.

Toni Rose Deanon  32:41  
Yeah. And that leaves us so tired. And I know there are other factors too, right? It's not just the fact that we're tired because we're constantly doing a lot of the work, more than the students, because there's also the systems and the policies and all of that stuff, right, to kind of keep us tired because, hey, there's expectations to have high test scores. There's expectations that your students are all passing right? All of that, but that is really interesting. Maybe when we really do relinquish control and trust our students to show up the way that we need them to show up, then maybe that takes off a little bit of that emotional baggage that we're holding onto and maybe even that mental baggage that we're holding on to as well. 

Katie Collins  33:23  
But I feel like, truly, we have to be okay with failure. Like, yes, like, we have to, like, really realize like, like, I said like, I used to think I had to be right and I had to do like, That's exhausting. And so I think, like, when you realize like and you have to embrace it yourself first. But you know, my kid might fall down on the way to the hardware store, but like, is that going to be the end of the world? Like you have to measure like the risks, obviously, but with its we have been taking away really low risk opportunities for our kids,

Toni Rose Deanon  33:58  
yeah. And as you were talking through, like, let it grow, and the alignment to modern classroom, right? There's so many things that you said that we also say in the model about the natural consequence, right? There's a natural consequence like, Hey, your kid didn't bring his jacket. He's got to go through this natural consequence of him having to go get this jacket from the car. That you don't have to do it because, again, they are capable of doing it right. And that's very similar to modern classrooms, like the natural consequences you give behind if you are not prioritizing, if you are not staying on track with what you need to do, or at least asking questions and utilizing all of the opportunities and the resources that are provided for you already. There's those natural consequences. Because I think sometimes, again, as educators, is definitely me too. We are so quick to have a consequence for students already, but it's like, no, no, the natural consequences are the ones that are actually going to make that huge impact as well, right? Because I feel like, I feel like students have a way to working with middle school kids. They're like, Oh, whatever Misty is going to do this anyway. That's the consequence. The quiz for it, and is what it is, but if it's a natural consequence, and they feel that there's a lot more pressure when it comes to to that, right? So, oh my gosh, this is, this is so great. I love it,

Katie Collins  35:10  
okay? But like, also, like, like, even a little bit deeper, like the accountability piece, like, that's what I love about modern classroom. Like that accountability piece, that kids know exactly what they're supposed to do. That is the that self efficacy, this is what research is showing, like kids need more than anything, is that ability to take a risk, to see what happens, to learn from it, and then to take another risk and and that is why we're anxious. That is why we're depressed, because the kids are not knowing how to do things like they're not because they're afraid, and they are so, so capable. And also, like the cool thing about let grow experience, they also have a let play experience like teachers are tired because kids don't even know how to play together without us mitigating for them and problem solving, they don't. And so they have these let play, let play, and then they have the let grow experience. I have really I'm pushing the let grow experience, because I'm seeing that like that was a major culture shift in my classroom in a short amount of time. And not only that, what's so cool about it is that parents are seeing like, I'm not over there telling parents how to parent. Their kid is telling their parents and showing them I can do this. I can pack my own snack. I can dress myself. I can, you know, for the high school, I can schedule a doctor's appointment by myself, you know. And it's all about, like, developmental too. I mean, you're not gonna let your you know. You have to make boundaries for your kids. Obviously, kids need boundaries, but they can also they need some freedom, yeah.

Toni Rose Deanon  36:53  
And this, it's so beautiful too, because I know my sister and I talk about, like, oh my gosh, it's so crusty being an adult sometimes, like, What do you mean? I have to set up all of my appointments. What do you mean? I actually have to show up to those appointments, drive my that's so many steps, right, especially with an ADHD brain and so to hear like high schoolers know how to set up appointments for their dentist, their cleaning, you know, the their checkups? That is. That is so, so nice to hear, and that is something that is something that we definitely want to keep pushing forward, right? 

Katie Collins  37:23  
But it's so cool, like the transformation is happening in me as a parent with all this. And that's the magic part. Is it's like bridging now, like parents are seeing, like we don't in all this ever protection is not coming from a bad place at all, like it is coming right, really good place, but it's just actually kind of harming our kids. And so parents, we are learning too. We've never been in this space and time, and so I think it's been helpful for me, like I took my twins, they're 13, boy, girl, to the dermatologist. And because I was thinking this way, and I'm changing. I'm like, Okay, guys, here's your clipboards. Here you go. And they looked at me like, and they're terrified. But guess what I'm here to, I'm here. Askme, here's a guide? 

Toni Rose Deanon  38:14  
Yeah, you here as a guide, you here as a coach. You're here as a person to celebrate their wins, right? So that is that's so beautiful. And you know this accountability piece that you talk about too, a lot of our teachers talk about, oh, students now feel accountable, like there's accountability for their learning. And I also always say that when I was implementing the model, it also held me accountable, like I also could not slack on providing feedback, on giving grades on actually backwards planning, there was like, a lot more accountability piece for me as an educator to show up the way that I'm expecting my students to show up. So it's not just the students that are being held accountable. It's also the teachers. And I think sometimes that's scary for folks too, right? It's like, no, no, we want the students, but not the teachers. Don't hold me accountable. But when I implemented that, it was such a an eye awakening experience of like, Oh, I'm actually unprepared. That is not cute, 

Katie Collins  39:11  
I mean, but, but again, like as teachers, our heads can be down. We can be dealing with this situation or this situation, and then like, Wow, here it is. Now it's time to teach measurement or whatever. But like, what I love about modern classroom is, for the unstructured brain, I'm a creative like, it has put so much structure and made me as an educator, absolutely more like, more like having accountability for myself, but I have seen so much growth in my students, more growth I have even like and the whole thing as teachers is that we are not there yet. And so, I mean, I had awesome support mentors from MCP that was like, Hey, have you tried this? Have you done this? Test. And just even, like, I had done a whole unit, and I hadn't even done a pre test before, and then one of my tech coaches, Jamie Nutter, was like, Hey, Katie, what if you did this? And guess what? The kids loved seeing their growth. They're like, oh my goodness, I made a 20. And look at this. I made 100 or I made a 95 like, it's just so cool, and it's that mastery based, and the kids actually know it so well that they can teach each other. You know, Miss Collins is not the only one with the brain in this classroom, and they actually take a lot of pride in helping each other learn.

Toni Rose Deanon  40:38  
Yeah, and that's the thing, right? When you have the structure in place, when you have this culture, this community, this classroom, culture that you've created where they can learn from each other, it's just it's so beautiful. I have to agree, when I was in the classroom as well, I was like, Wow, I've never seen collaboration look like this before. If anything, it's always been like, oh, the answer is, b like, leave me alone. But now my students were like, Oh no, like, let's look at the evidence, right? Let's look at this passage. Let's talk about what a theme is. Let's remind each other what this is, and it's just such a beautiful thing. And you know, I was thinking about too when you mentioned failures, and how important it is for students to fail, and in the beginning, we're always going to fail, right? And I think one of our educators was having this conversation with me, and it just kind of resurfaced again as you were talking that when you start implementing the model at first, there's going to be a dip, right? There's going to be a dip in data. There's going to be a dip in social well being, right? Because students are like, What the heck is this? What are we doing? This is not what I'm used to. This is what school is. And so there's a dip. And I think sometimes educators freak out when they see that dip first, and it's like, no, that's good. That means there's a gap there, there's a learning curve there, and now you can just move up instead of go down, right? And so I just wanted to remind our listeners, too, that failure is going to happen in the beginning of anything that you do, just because it's so new to everyone, to students, to teachers, to school leaders, all of that. So that dip is pretty common, and it's not a red flag or anything. It's just like one of those things of like, Hey, we're just getting used to this thing, right? And you know, Katie, okay, I when we found out that you were Teacher of the Year at MCP anyway, we were all so excited. We were like, Oh my gosh, Katie Collins, like, and I think for me also, it was the fact that, like, I got to see you in action, and then finding out that you got Teacher of the Year, I was like, Well, duh, it makes sense. All of it makes sense, honestly, because of how you just showed up in front of your students. And, like you said, super authentic, very much, like I'm gonna scaffold everything so you don't have any questions at all. And if you did, that's okay, but it's gonna be clear transparent, because being clear is being kind, right? And so let's shift a little in the last like nine minutes of our conversation, this teacher of the year thing. Tell me anything. Tell me everything. How was that? How does it feel? What are you looking forward to? What are all the things you're doing?

Katie Collins  43:04  
Well, it is just, first of all, it's like one of those things. It's wild. It is wild. And honestly, my wildest dreams were, was to become a teacher, but like, this is next level, like I would never, ever, ever dream of getting this opportunity, because it's really, truly, I'm just a representative. I really do in my heart of hearts, like I am not the best teacher in Alabama, like and Aubrey Bennett, who is the alternate Teacher of the Year and the secondary teacher of the year, like he would say it's the same thing. Like we are just representatives, and we our goal is to help bridge gaps between just the people who are in the trenches and the people who are making the policies and just getting to go like yesterday, I was at in Shelby County Schools who they already they were doing a really cool For teachers by teachers conference, and there were multiple MCP presentations. Go. MCP, yeah, so I get to go and kind of see, I mean, this sounds terrible, but like, kind of like how the sausage is being made, like I got to go. I'm getting to go and I hope to go to board meetings. I'm getting to talk to board members. You know, there is just an opportunity to amplify the voices of those who are in the trenches implementing the policies. And I just think that we all need it. We can be friends. We can all be friends. And I think that one thing that Aubrey and I like talk about is how teaching can feel so lonely sometimes, and it's we just kind of like, like I said, Our head is down. We have this our plate. We cannot see it. You know, the landscape of like society has changed a whole lot. We just. Have a lot. We've just all have PTSD from a global pandemic, too. And I just think that we don't stop. We can't barely stop to go the bathroom and to eat lunch, let alone to get to talk to each other. And how important are those conversations we're actually doing all doing the same work, and we don't have to do this in a silo, and it feels like it, it just does. We're just tired, and any extra energy we have is like, maybe I should email lunch now, and it's three o'clock. Um, so I just it's so cool to be in this spot to get a see to how this is happening. But man, that like, we don't want to just walk like, go around and smile and wave at people this year like we want to amplify the voices of those in the trenches. And so we are, our passion project is let grow experience, and we're going to be giving. We're going to go around getting to speak to different professional development. Like, every day is different. I got to get this is crazy. Tony Riz, I was asked to go to a conference and speak right after Miss America. What I know I was like, they were like, an Alabama teachers, or they were like, and Abby Stockard, Miss America, and she was like, she's beautiful, and, like, giving her perfect wave. And then they were like, and Katie Collins, Alabama Teacher of the Year. And I'm like, Hey, y'all like, obviously I spoke after Miss America, because Miss America had to get on a jet and go somewhere else. I would not have been, I would be, you know, her warm up act, but it's just, like, really cool. Like, I'm used to being and I love, listen, I there's nothing more I'm gonna I'm already sad. I miss my carpet, my 2020 kids looking at me. But like, I get to go and I get to, like, hopefully make a difference for those who are in the trenches and amplify their voices through a podcast. That's right, I'm learning right now from you, because I've never done a podcast, but as Teacher of the Year for Alabama, I was handed a brand new Chevy Traverse with a giant Apple on the side of it. Oh my gosh, that's amazing. Sees me out and about. First of all, I'm sorry if I cut you off. I'm doing my best, but we're gonna have a podcast from the Apple car, and we are going to, like, I want educators in this Apple car. Hey, we're going to we're going to go off shores, we're going to talk to the sustainability teacher, and then, like, have her jump in the car, and maybe we'll go get coffee or, you know, just talk about like, hey, what's happening? What are hilarious things? What are some things that are like, hard, I want to be this to be relevant. So guess what? Get ready Tony rose, to hop in the Apple car.

Toni Rose Deanon  47:58  
Oh, no, I'm so excited. Katie, that is such a great idea, because, again, it takes teachers away from the classroom, right? So it's a different setting. You're in a car, you're having lots of conversations, and it's it's just a different it's a different environment. I'm so excited. I am excited, and I'm looking forward to collaborating with you and being a part of this. Whenever you need me to be a part of it. 

Katie Collins  48:20  
And it's just really cool, like, we're gonna also be modeling a growth mindset as as we are learning how to do a podcast. Like we don't know we have never been like to podcast school. We are one on one, but it will get better. It will grow. Our podcast will grow.

Toni Rose Deanon  48:36  
Yeah, I'm so excited to hear all of the things that you're doing, you're such an advocate for all things to make learning just that much more engaging and enjoyable and fun, not just for the students, but also for teachers, right? And I, I love that. I love that so much about you, Katie. And again, I'm I'm so excited to see all the things that you're going to do this year, this upcoming school year, and I know that we're going to air this somewhere around in August, but you and I actually get to see each other at the end of this month, so I'm excited to spend more time with you and to see you in action. 

Katie Collins  49:11  
Let's go now. Toni Rose, thank you. First of all, if you are any educator out there listening, and even if you're not, if you just love educators, we are having a Back to School Bash on July 31 and I extended the opportunity. I was like, I gotta have my MCP people there. Like, they are my people. And I'm so excited. Toni Rose you're coming.

Toni Rose Deanon  49:34  
Oh yeah, I definitely prioritize that, Katie, because I was like, huge fan. I'm gonna be there. Say less. Whatever you need me to do, I'll do it 10 times harder.

Katie Collins  49:43  
Listen. I just want y'all there. I want your presence, because I believe in modern classroom project. It has transformed me as an educator. It has really, truly transformed my my students. I have kids that are chanting modern classroom instead of going to recess like I'm not, I'm not. My book, I am not telling a lie, like I'm not telling a lie. And so when I see the power of that, like, we want engagement, that's what we want. Because, I mean, if they're not engaged, they're not going to apply, they're learning. So definitely wanted you guys there. It's going to be an Avondale Brewing Company, and it is like a really cool venue. There's a stage. We have two DJs. One of them is a teacher by day, a DJ by night as a side hustle. And then we also have another DJ who's going to be kind of me, like the closing DJ for those cool teachers that are still up. I might not be one of them, but, you know, we got the the young crab, and then we have also a band, a cover band, so it's gonna be awesome. We have like, over probably 20 vendors there. It's just, we want teachers to know that like we see you, we love you. Let's hang out. Let's be friends.

Toni Rose Deanon  51:00  
Yeah, and again, going back to what we talked about in the beginning, community piece, right? This community piece of like, Hey, you don't have to do this alone. We're here. We're going to celebrate it, all of the things, the celebrations, the mistakes, the failures, all of it. And what a better way to start the school year than that, right? Like that is really, really cool. So listeners will definitely do like an update on the episode when we release this to see how the back to school goes. But I am just so, so grateful for your time, for your energy. You are just amazing. Katie, so thank you so much for that.

Katie Collins  51:33  
And yeah, go ahead. What if one day, like MCP can, like sponsor a bonnery for teachers?

Toni Rose Deanon  51:39  
Yo, that would be amazing. We could, we could, we could definitely make that happen, right? We could definitely make that happen.

Katie Collins  51:45  
I really do. This is kind of funny. This is the first time I'm saying this out there. But like, what if Snoop Dogg ends up in the Apple car this year?

Toni Rose Deanon  51:57  
I feel like, I feel like that's gonna happen. I have really good feelings.

Katie Collins  52:03  
He is all about mindfulness for kids right now, since he's become a grandpa, he's been making kids music, so it kind of goes along with our educator wellness and independence. Maybe he can write a song about independence for

Toni Rose Deanon  52:16  
kids. I mean, Katie, if we're thinking about rappers, Lord John is doing a lot of meditation, like, there's a meditation videos of Little John doing the Medi like the the voice over for it. So I think that could also be a vibe.

Katie Collins  52:31  
Whoever wants to hop in the car, Little John, Snoop Dogg, I mean, T Swift, yes, anybody

Toni Rose Deanon  52:39  
you are, yeah. These are all aspire to do's, and we're gonna get them. Okay? We're gonna manifest it so Katie, how can our listeners connect with you? 

Katie Collins  52:48  
Oh, okay, listen, we need, we need some friends. Okay? Because Aubrey and I just started something that we hope will be passed on from year to year. It's follow us on Instagram at Alabama teachers with plural, because we're in this together. We want to highlight the teachers, Alabama Teachers of the Year, and also Facebook, Alabama Teachers of the Year. So plural, but we want to pass this on. We want collaboration. We want to have some cool resources for teachers out there, 

Toni Rose Deanon  53:24  
so beautiful, and listeners will put that on the show notes, so you don't have to do any googling. We'll link all of that. But again, Katie, you're a rock star. Thank you so much for your time and your energy today and sharing your experience and experiences, your expertise and your experiences with our listeners today. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Katie Collins  53:41  
Well, I truly appreciate modern classroom project like it. Truly I was asked to pilot it, and I am just so grateful. In fact, two of my colleagues from my first grade team last year are presenting today. I think it's a six hour professional development on MCP, but they're actually have created the most incredible sight word accountability system for first graders. And I mean, kids struggle with this in kindergarten, so we might be going for kindergarten and first grade and second grade, but like a progression, it's, it's wild, like it's, the opportunities are endless. And if you if somebody is just thinking about it, hey, how can this be used? I mean, I think that this is only used in secondary. No, it is not. I used it with first graders. I know people who are using this with kindergarteners. Kids are capable, and it is going to change, change your life as an educator, it's going to take you and give the power to the kids. Ah,

Toni Rose Deanon  54:45  
thank you so much, Katie. Yes, exactly, exactly. And you're going to have to connect me with your colleagues who are doing that, because I'd love to hear more about what they're doing, because i It seems amazing, absolutely. And then also just, just the fact to Katie that just, thank you so. For being flexible and patient listeners. This may be TMI, but we were just winging it today, and it turned out to be such a beautiful vibe. Katie kind of calmed my nerves because I was a little anxious about I was like, Oh my gosh, how did I not send you the questions beforehand? And she's like, No, no. It's like we're sitting in a cafe. We're just having conversations. And typically, that's what I do with our guests. So Katie, thank you for doing that for me. I just, again, just really appreciate you.

Katie Collins  55:24  
Well, that's what we do as teachers. We just have to be we're flexible. And honestly, Tony rose, my ADHD, I may or may not have read the show notes before. So like, there's freedom, freedom and freedom and failure. There's like, sometimes that's the best thing that can happen. Like you know, it works out better.

Toni Rose Deanon  55:42  
Yes, well again. Thank you so much. Katie, this was so much fun. Listeners, remember, you can always email us at podcast@modernclassrooms.org and you can find the show notes for this episode@podcast.modernclassrooms.org We'll have this episodes video uploaded on modern classrooms YouTube channel and transcript uploaded by Friday, so be sure to check back to access those. Also, we are asking our listeners to leave a review. If this podcast has been helpful in supporting you to create a human, centered learning environment through a blended, self paced and mastery based model, it does help other folks find it. Thank you all for listening. Have a great week, and we'll be back next Sunday.

Zach Diamond  56:22  
thank you so much for listening. You can find links to topics and tools we discussed in our show notes for this episode, and remember, you can learn more about our work at www.modernclassrooms.org and you can learn the essentials of our model through our free course at learn.modernclassrooms.org so you can follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram @modernclassproj, that's P, R, O, J, we are so appreciative of all you do for students in schools. Have a great week, and we'll be back next Sunday with another episode of the modern classrooms project podcast.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai