Zach Diamond 0:02 Music. Welcome to the modern classrooms project podcast. Each week we bring you discussions with educators on how they use blended, self paced and mastery based learning to better serve their students. We believe teachers learn best from each other, so this is our way of lifting up the voices of leaders and innovators in our community. This is the modern classrooms project podcast. Toni Rose Deanon 0:28 Hello and welcome to episode 221, of the modern classrooms project podcast. My name is Toni Rose Deanon, they them pronouns, a designated hype person here at MCP. And I am joined by April Burton, an instructional technology content leader from the Francis Howell School District, and also a mom of a ninth grade student in a modern classrooms classroom. So I'm really excited to kind of hear the caregiver perspective as well as like an implementer school leader perspective as well. So April, welcome so exciting to be in this space with you. And thank you so much for saying yes to the podcast. April Burton 1:03 Well, thank you for having me. I'm excited to share our story. Toni Rose Deanon 1:06 Yes. And so before we get started, what is bringing you joy currently? Oh, goodness. April Burton 1:12 Well, we are over the busy hump of the new school year, and we're getting into our routines. So I think that is that's exciting for me. When the kids are, you know, getting into their regular day in and day out, and they're excited about learning still or in the honeymoon phase still, so that is super fun for me. Toni Rose Deanon 1:33 Oh, I love a good honeymoon stage. I feel like, you know, it's like that, new energy, new relationship energy feel right. Like everyone is excited. Everyone is like, oh my gosh, everything is so good. We want to keep that, keep that going honestly. So okay, April, tell us more about who you are and how you started your education journey, your MCP journey, all of the good things. April Burton 1:56 Yeah, sure. So I am, oh gosh. I've been in education for 20 plus years, and I started as an English teacher and a French teacher, and I've just always been an innovator. I've always been the one who is like, oh, what's, what's this new shiny thing? Let me try something new. I'm never afraid to to fail forward. And I've been in this role as I'm not an instructional coach, but I just kind of support the technology initiatives across the district, and I've been in this role for eight years. And I was on ISTE boards several years ago, and I kept hearing people talk about this modern classroom, modern classroom, and I I had come from being in a classroom where I did a flipped model. And so I am a researcher, and so I had to figure out what is modern classroom. Not too long after that, I was leading out a teacher leader program, and one of the teachers in my program had spent the summer doing a virtual cohort, and so she was talking about how it had made such a difference and her third grade classroom. And so then I was like, All right, we've got to figure out how this can work in our district. Not too long after that, it was like the stars started aligning. My my boss, the Director of Adult Learning, came to me and said, Have you heard about modern classroom? Because we might have this opportunity where we can send some of our teachers through a virtual cohort. And I was like, yes, yes. We need to learn about this. We need to bring this opportunity. And I jumped on because I thought, if I'm going to send some teachers through this, I need to do this as a professional developer. And so I went through it along with, I think we had 12 people in that cohort, and then this past summer, we brought another 10 on. And so I've just been kind of learning along with our teachers. So I'm definitely not a know it all. I'm in the throngs with everyone else. Toni Rose Deanon 4:01 This is so exciting, April, I love just hearing that it's been 20 years, right? 20 plus years of you being an education thank you for your service and starting out as French and English teacher, and been doing a lot of great stuff with technology initiatives the past eight years, especially being an SD board, which I think is so fascinating, and how so you went through the model, or you went through the mentorship program yourself, because you were like, I need to know what this looks like for my teachers, and I need to be able, I think, for me, kind of like a making it more legit, right? Like, Oh, I know what y'all are doing, because I went through that. So there's a lot more credit there, right? Because I know as a teacher, I would be like, What are you telling me to do? And you haven't even done it yourself. So I really love this concept that you did it so that you can be in the trenches, so you can know exactly what the mentorship program entails. And so how has your teachers? I mean, granted, you've had 12 teachers, and then 10 more. Are do the mentorship program. So I'm assuming it's a positive feedback. How, how are your teachers like? What are your teachers saying about this program? April Burton 5:08 Well, they they acknowledge that it is a lot of work, but what they really like is that one to one impact that they have on their students, so students aren't being left behind. I mean, I think we all. Anyone who has been in the classroom knows there are your heart breaks because there's so much curriculum to cover, and there are students who get left behind, and you just have to keep moving. And in this situation, we have structures in place where we can meet the students where they are and empower them so that they don't have to be left behind. Toni Rose Deanon 5:46 Our teachers are some of your teachers working together as they create this self this student centered, self paced model April Burton 5:55 they are as much as we can now, right? We have three different high schools, five different middle schools. And so I have a spattering here and a spattering there, but I do have, I do I have brought them together and some district cohorts so that we can spend an afternoon sharing our ideas. I loop them in on emails together, and I'm like, Alright, what's one, one cool thing that you picked up from this week, so that they have the opportunity to share with each other. I wish there were, I wish we had an entire PLC where they were all doing it. We're not there yet, but that is, that's a goal I have. Toni Rose Deanon 6:32 Oh, I really love that, because I know when I first started implementing the model, it was actually Kareem and Rob who were leading the sessions. And we had PLCs for the 20 plus teachers who were implementing in the classroom in my school. So we would come together on Fridays, I think it was every other Friday, and we just talked about, like, what are the wins, what are the challenges? How can we tweak things? Because it was also, I think it was like, the one of the first times to where the model was being implemented in middle school, and then also, like, you know, music in Spanish and computer science. And so it was like, how does this look? And so I really love this concept of, like, you creating a space for teachers to share ideas. Because, you know, sometimes I feel like teachers feel isolated, like they're doing things by themselves. And so you as an instructional coach or just a school leader, just being able to create this space for student, for for the teachers, to share what they're learning. And I think that that makes it much more impactful and joyful right in my from my experience of just like knowing, like, oh, okay, like you're doing this cool, and I want to learn from like, what you're doing. And then another thing that we did, too was that we actually observed other teachers who were implementing the model in our school so that we can see them in action. And I thought that that was really powerful. And as I was like a subject coordinator as well at my school in DC, I was able, I had to create that, that schedule, because I know our teachers weren't gonna do it because they have so many things that were happening. And so for me, I was like, You know what? Let's highlight each other. Let's celebrate each other. Let's see what each other strengths are in the classroom. And instead of me talking at you, like, go see them for 15 minutes and then come back and let's have a conversation about what you saw. And that was like, one of the favorite things that I think our whole English department really loved for that school year. So I was like, oh, we need to, like, implement that more. But this is really exciting stuff. So I feel like you are making such a big impact in your in your district as well. So thank you for that. April Burton 8:35 Now, though, that has been great and being able to like, I'll say, hey, I'll take your class. Let me have your class for an hour, and you go, you go watch someone, because you're right. If you don't see it in practice, sometimes it's hard to wrap your head around what it could look like. Toni Rose Deanon 8:51 Yeah, that's, that's exactly what it is, right. Like you have to see it in action. Um, okay, well, thank you for just like, you know, answering and entertaining my comments and questions. One of the things that I really, really love is like, one of our colleagues, Kristen, actually shared your name with me and was like, hey, April has great stories about MCP with also just a unique perspective of being a parent to a student who is in a modern classrooms, like learning environment, right? And so what has been like some comments? What have been some comments from your own child about the model that you'd like to share out that you just kind of chuckle, because I don't think that your student, your child, actually knows that you know about modern classroom, is that, right? April Burton 9:42 Right? He did not. And it was actually kind of funny, because he had told my husband, like, you know, the first couple days of school, he comes home and he's talking about his classes, and he told my husband, I'm going to be in my math class. I'm going to be in this modern classroom type. Class, and my husband was like, you know, your mom coordinates that for the for the district? And he was like, No, I had no idea. So I'm talking to him about it, and he's like, it is so cool. I'm gonna be able to get ahead. I'm gonna be able to work at my own pace. So it was, it was really kind of cool, because I had never shared this concept with him, but I'm hearing all the things that I hope for for all students in my own kid. And so that was, to me, very exciting. Toni Rose Deanon 10:30 Was there any kind of, like hesitation from him at all, because, you know, he's in ninth grade now, so he's had, you know, a good amount of different types of learning environments, and so he seems excited. Was there any kind of hesitation or anything like that? Was he curious confused? Yeah, yeah, I'm so curious. April Burton 10:51 So the hesitation was actually more on my part. So when I got his schedule and I saw that he was going to be and with a teacher who had just learned to implement modern classroom. I thought, Oh, this will be interesting, because my my kiddo, is a gifted student who is also ADHD, and he needs structure. He is the kid. I mean, we've all had this kind of kid in our classroom. He is a kid who always has this special project because he finishes early, and he will talk to anyone, like, you can't move him by someone, because he will talk to anyone. And so I thought this, this is going to be interesting. We're really going to have to, like work on his focus and organization. And so when he came to me talking about how excited he was to be able to work at his own pace, to be able to get ahead, to be able to do some things at home and and like, have the choice about what he could work on at home. I was, I was really surprised, like there was, this is a kid who's never, like nervous about anything, so that I didn't think he'd have hesitation. But I was also impressed because his first mastery check that he did, he did not do very well on but that gave us an opportunity to talk about how he was taking, how serious he was taking all of the things that he could do, as opposed to the things that he absolutely had to do, and make some goals around that. So I it was kind of this is a kid who typically school is very easy for him, and so it was actually kind of nice to see him with some productive struggle and have those discussions about you're in control of this. This is not something that your teacher is doing to you. This is something that you have a choice to go in this direction or this direction, but you need to learn what works best for you. Toni Rose Deanon 12:46 Oh, I love this so much. I'm just chuckling because, you know, he's, he said he's gifted, and he's also neurodivergent, got ADHD, and so really needs that structure so. And I'm just chuckling because I also, I, you know, I have, I have ADHD, so I really need, again, that structure, like I need clear directions, or else I'm going to feel really overwhelmed. And so I guess, like my next question, it kind of, it's interesting, because there's structure, but then there's also flexibility, right? Because self pacing allows for flexibility. Like you said, there's choice, right? And there's also just, like, for your for your kid to just have productive struggle, to experience this productive struggle, right? And so how has that affected your your kids, motivation and engagement and learning? Has that affected him? Because I know y'all had a conversation of like, hey, the could do's and the must do's. I know that those are choices. Let's talk about the goals. Did he seem because I know, when I was in middle school, students seem to be deflated when they say, when they find out that they had to redo something, right? But for your kid, was it more of just like, Oh no, like, I didn't get it right the first time. I actually have a lot of you know, tries that I can do. How did he respond to that? And what are you seeing with the motivation and engagement as well? Because I know that you talked a little bit about that too. April Burton 14:07 Well. I'm really thankful for this opportunity for him, because he realizes that there is learning and failure. And I don't, I mean, I hate to say that, you know he, he didn't fail his first quiz that he ever took, but he didn't do as well as he thought he would have, but he also knew that there was a teacher in that classroom that he could go to with specific questions, and she's been great about making sure that she communicates how they should be using their time, or how they could be using their time when they're in the classroom, and so he knows he has an advocate for him, and that was one of the things he even said to me, was I know that she really cares, because she's putting all these videos together for us. So he knows that if he needs help with a certain content or he needs to repeat the video. Video for a certain concept that he's struggling with. He knows it's there. And having been a teacher who taught with the flipped model, because your your video is you in at home, like they're watching the a video of you while they're sitting on their bed there, they feel so connected to you because they hear your voice outside of the classroom. They can, they can pull up a video of you at any time, any place, and learn from you, and that right there creates this connection. And so he automatically just felt this, this support from this teacher within the first couple of weeks of school, which that actually caught me off guard. I mean, I, I had never really thought about how, yeah, she is showing how these supports are available to him. Should he choose to take advantage of them? And she shows that she really does care. And that goes such a long way. Toni Rose Deanon 15:55 Oh, I love that. I love that comment, right? Of just like, I know that she cares about us. And like you said, it is that connection of like, Oh, they're doing this. They're providing the space for us to really learn what we need to learn, right? And so kudos to your son recognizing that right, and also just the whole thing of failing. Like, I know that we often get so scared to fail, but that's really how we learn. We learn because we failed and and that should not right, like that should not be a shameful process. And I think that we have put a lot of shame on failure, and so I think we we definitely want to shift away from that shame and just say, like, hey, we didn't get right the first time. That's okay. So we can just try it a different way, or we can, like, relearn, re, teach ourselves all that good stuff. And then, like you said, it just really opens up this the time and space and energy for the teacher to support the student as much as they can, right? And so I oh my gosh, I love this. I love this so much. Okay, so when we're thinking about I know it's in the beginning of the school year. How long have y'all been in school now? April Burton 17:04 We started like the 21st of August, so we've got a good month and a few weeks in Toni Rose Deanon 17:11 okay? And would you say that his math teacher implemented right away in the beginning of the school year? April Burton 17:15 She did right away. I try to encourage our teachers, and even before school starts, send a message to your parents to let them know this is a little bit of a different structure than most of us are used to. And so as a parent, I got an email from her right away letting us know that this is how the class was going to be structured, and they would have that it was focused on mastery, and they would have quick checks and the opportunity to redo quick checks. And she has been excellent at communicating with us, so that I know, like today we had, there was a test today, and last week, she gave us about a week, weeks heads up, and gave us some ideas of resources we could use that are built within her. We use Canvas here so that are built within her canvas, course, for him to look at in between that then and today. And so as a parent, I was super excited to see that she was doing all of those things to help communicate the idea and right away, like she built in some community building so that the kids felt comfortable helping each other, because that's one of the things that she has really encouraged is, you know, she's got a class full of Students, and she can be working with small groups, and she doesn't necessarily want them to be interrupting her when she's working with a small group, so they she has systems in place so that they can work together. And so, you know, we had to have a conversation about choosing who you ask for help wisely, somebody who's also going to be on task, because my son has a knack for finding the kid who will get off task and and I think she also encouraged that as well. She let him choose, as long as he could show responsibility, know who he was going to sit with, and so far, he's done pretty well. So Toni Rose Deanon 19:15 alright, that's exciting. So y'all have been at it for like, a month, right? And some, some days, which is really great. I what I'm hearing is that there's intentional collaboration happening. I'm gonna, I'm gonna shout out one of our DMCs, actually, Joe man free, who, who, like, termed this, of like, intentional collaboration, right? We can't just expect students to collaborate on their own. They need a lot of guidance. And when you were talking about, you know, being able to have this skill set of choosing a person who's not going to distract you that, like, that is real life, right? Like, even as adults, we have to be mindful, like, Okay, I'm gonna play around with you a lot, and so I may not be. The best person to be your partner right now, and so I really again, we're teaching like, life skills, honestly, right? We're teaching life skills, we're teaching prioritization. We're teaching you know, how to make quote, unquote better decisions as we navigate specific environments, right? So I really love this concept. Thank you. And shout out to this teacher who's like, so communicative. And just like I always say it's better to communicate rather than not communicate, and I'm all about and I think with this model, it really forces everyone to just be transparent and honest with like, what's happening in the classroom and teachers, or at least our caregivers, know exactly what's happening, and they're no longer like, oh, I don't know what my kid is learning. It's actually, no, it's all here. Like, watch all the things you can learn alongside your kid, actually, which I think is so beautiful. So it's been a month, and clearly this teacher is like rocking it. Your son is still loving the model, which I think is really great. Do you have a specific example of how a mastery based approach has helped your child develop a deeper understanding of a particular subject? I know that we talked about this one mastery check that he had, that he didn't, you know, he didn't pass. But is there any other specific examples that you'd like to share? April Burton 21:23 Well, I think this is the his first encounter with approaching mastery for so many of our kiddos. And I have two other kids, one who graduated, and one who's a junior at the same school, and so often it's been grade focused, like I've got to do my homework so that I can have this grade, and this will help me get this grade on the test. And we've never had the opportunity for them to think through what does actually knowing the content mean and for my kiddo that's in the modern classrooms class, this was his first opportunity to even reflect on, do I know it or do I not know it? And what does it mean to really actually know it, instead of just rushing to get whatever the task is completed, because he's been given choice, and so the opera we hear all the time, Give Kids Choice, give choice and voice like that's the buzzword, but when you really think about and when you watch the kids choose whatever learning modality works best for them, and see the effort that They put forth in that successful mastery check, or that successful assessment grade that really shows them that, Oh, all right, this works for me, or the or the opposite of that. I mean, maybe we don't make the right choice, but it's still a learning opportunity, and the opera, the opportunity that he's had to redo something so that that low grade doesn't become him as a person, it's as a result of a choice that he made that has been very empowering for him, because He's separating himself from him him as a student, but him as being in control of his learning, which I think that's eye opening and exciting, like he's a freshman. He's got all of high school ahead of him, and he's learning this skill set to advocate for himself, to make choices for himself, way earlier than my other two ever were able to, Toni Rose Deanon 23:42 yeah, and then to be able to reflect on just what type of learner they are, right? And you know, as you were speaking, I was also thinking about how, like, Y'all listeners, this is a gifted kid, right, like, and these are still skills that, like, even our more advanced students need to work on. And so I think sometimes we have this assumption that, like, oh, because our students are more advanced, they don't need a, b, c, d, and it's like, no, no, they do. They need structure, like you said, they need flexibility. And like you said, there's options too, right? There's options to play around with. Like, what does it mean for me? What does it look like for me to master a concept? Because, again, like you said, right? Your son probably already figured out what schooling is and has played that game for the past, like, eight, you know, eight school years that he's been in, and he's in ninth grade now. And so it's just really interesting how you just named like, everything is so real, like everything was grade focused before, right? It was just like, Oh, I got an A, and that's it. And so now there's a more focus of like, Okay, what did actually, what did I learn today? And I'm so excited to see, like, you know, even I've heard from students who may have had this model in ninth grade, and then they didn't have it in 10th grade, they didn't have it in 11th grade. But they still say, like, Oh no, because of this model, I am able to prioritize. I am able to, like, pick, you know, the better partners to collaborate with. And so really, these skills that these life skills that we're teaching students, because they have self pacing and mastery based learning, right? Like, it really helps them even outside, like, years ahead, right, years in the future. And so, you know, now I'm curious with blended learning, right? How does this impacted your son's like, social and emotional development? Because I know sometimes I hear parents and caregivers say, like, oh my, my kid is just going to be on a computer all day long. And, you know, there's, I'm sure you've heard of those assumptions as well, right? So, yeah, how has this impacted your your your son's social and emotional development? April Burton 25:52 Well, you know, as you mentioned earlier, he has learned to play school, but he doesn't play school very well. I mean, he may be a gifted student, but he does not care if he has missing assignments, like, that's not that's not on his radar. Like, it's fine if he has a C in a class, whatever you know he and his heart knows the material, and so he doesn't need to show that on a test. That's just the kind of kid he is. So but with this, since he's been in modern classroom, he has that opportunity to work with somebody else to like share ideas, or have his partner work through something with him, and they can talk through No. I think it should be this answer, no. I think it should be this answer, instead of him working in isolation, which he would get bored with, and not he would not finish an assignment because he has ADHD, and so task completion is not his strength. But with this model, he feel he we're not getting on to him, because if we're not saying, Quinn, you need to get your homework done where he's able to track his own progress. He's able to ask his buddy for help. He's able to check his assumptions against his buddy's assumptions, and if they have two different answers that they can't agree on, he's got a teacher there who is going to support him, and that has been, I think, very rewarding for him, because he feels really good about himself. He's not, you know, kids know when they don't do assignments that they're supposed to, and so that is a black cloud over him. I mean, he's not going to lose sleep over it, because that's the kind of kid he is, but this is something he can feel very proud of. And as a mom, I want him to feel proud of of his progress, and I think that socially, emotionally is what I've seen that's the most exciting. Toni Rose Deanon 27:49 Oh my gosh, you're giving me goosebumps. April, this is so amazing. I really love again, just like reiterating what you said, right? Like he's able to track his own progress, he can check his assumptions. He can work with others. He's not sitting there bored or expected to pay attention for long periods of time, because, again, kids clock out. Even if you don't have ADHD, you will clock out. And so I really love, again, this concept, and what I'm hearing is that there's more he has more autonomy as to how his learning is going to go, right? There's not an expectation that we're all going to learn this one way, like all at the same time, but he's now, I I'm hearing a lot of joy, and that's what we want learning to be, right? We want it to be joyful, and especially for students, really all students, but I think I'm thinking more so like for students who are neurodivergent, who can't sit still, because I was that student, I would have loved this model, April Burton 28:47 right, right? I mean that that is what speaks to him. I mean early on, when we were like so what classes do you think you look forward to the most? And he chose, he said he he loves band and he loves his geometry class because those are classes where he can be active in his learning, and that's what he as a student, he needs, I mean, and I really do think most of our students really do want to be active. Some Play School better than others, and they can sit still for a really long time, but given the choice, they're going to want to be active. They're going to want to check their answers against someone else's. They're going to want to be able to talk through and reason why they've chosen to that this should be this is their response. They want a teacher to give them feedback and let them know if they're on the right track or give them that constructive criticism if they're not. We don't ever want a kid to not to realize that they don't know the material when they're sitting there to take the unit test. And this has given him the the ability to to check himself along the way. Toni Rose Deanon 29:52 I love that so much. And as a parent, I'm sure you're just like, so excited to see this. April Burton 29:59 Yeah. I just really, I'm very excited to have a teacher that's not calling me and saying, you know, I can never get your kid to settle down and pay attention. But that's because he's choosing what, how he's spending his energy. He's making that choice instead of this, like, more, I don't want to say authoritative, but it kind of is this more authoritative structure, where it's sit and get all the time, Toni Rose Deanon 30:22 yeah, I was literally just writing about this whole concept of sit and get right, like how we're just so used to in the education world, passive learning, and I think it also just kind of drains our students as well, right? And sometimes intentionally, so that our students don't talk you know, don't talk back, don't question what is happening. And so I've just been reflecting a lot on this, sit and get and I think, you know, because I I definitely had students with different abilities and being able to implement this model, really, just like sparked their joy again, like their light, you know, their eyes light up. They were just like, oh, I can have conversations. Oh, I can redo it. Oh, I can do all of these things. Like, how dope is that? And so I really love hearing this from you as a parent, because I'm not a parent. I could just say all day, every day, about this model, but it's really nice to hear from you. And so let's get like, kind of you know, I want to say you're a little biased to the model, right? Because you know about the model, you know about the teachers who are, you know, implementing this model, and so if you were not, if you did not know what was happening in the school district, because, you know, because a lot of our parents don't right, a lot of our caregivers are very hands off sometimes, and they just, like, have no idea what's happening, because life is Laughing for everyone, right, not like throwing shit or anything, and so are there any like challenges that you foresee for a care as a caregiver who may not know about this model? April Burton 31:53 Well, actually, we've had some conversations in some of our buildings where this has been implemented, where, you know, students may have struggled in classes, and they go to their school counselor, and the school counselor, you know, the student says, Well, I'm just watching videos. This is a true story. A student went to their counselor, so I'm just watching videos. The teacher's not teaching me anything. And so we had to sit down and say, Well, okay, let's think about how everything is structured. The videos are part of it. But what are you doing when you're watching the videos? So we, you know again, we talked, like, spoke with the classroom teachers, and I was like, how? How about we up our communication game and just let parents know? Like, here's what I'm expecting, here's maybe what I am seeing, here's what I should be seeing, but maybe I'm not seeing or here's some choices, or here's some other options of of how this child could be spending their time. And so there has been, like you mentioned before, some miscommunications of what self directed learning really is. Because, you know, we, most of our parents, myself included, lived in a world where I learned because the teacher told me what I needed to be learning, and I was learning in the same way as the student sitting next to me and in front of me. And so I think helping our parents understand that when your student is in control of what they want, like what video, the order that they watch, videos, stopping it, pausing it, rewinding it, taking notes in a way that's valuable to them, choosing practice that's valuable and helpful for them, that some of our kids need a little bit More learning and needs just to be reminded of you. Maybe you're not doing well because maybe, like maybe you aren't passing your mastery checks because you're using this modality. But really, this modality might work better for you today and it might change tomorrow, but and just helping to be very communicative about that reflection process, because that's that's where the growth really happens. Is helping when students realize I chose this, it wasn't something my teacher did to me. I chose this. Maybe choosing something else would have been a wiser decision, that would have been a little bit more beneficial. And so that's what I've been trying to help our counselors understand, is ask. This is all about asking students, well, what were you doing and why did you choose to do it that way? What other ways could you have done this? And so I'm trying to prepare them with a list of of questions to help, really, the student understand this learning modality. Toni Rose Deanon 34:46 Oh, I really love that concept of probing questions for other stakeholders in the in the school, right, of like other adults supporting the student. I love that concept. I think that's a great idea. Actually, I haven't heard that before, but. I think that's a great way to welcome and invite students to reflect, and then also the counselor or the adult who's being more mindful of, like, Okay, this is a different way of teaching and learning. So like, let's learn together about this, and let's figure out, like, what are some barriers, what are some challenges? Why is it that you think your teacher is not teaching? Because, you know, I've heard that so many times, and I also feel like this is resistance, right? Is it's fear of like, oh, wait, wait a minute, I am now responsible for my learning. But I thought you're just going to tell me what the answers are, because that's how it's been, right? Like, teachers get tired of waiting, and they're like, Oh, whatever. It's a or b or whatever, right? But there's a lot more accountability with this model. And I think that students can't hide behind, you know, the whole I don't, I don't even know, but they just can't behind, like, they can't hide behind their resistance anymore. It's really just, like, no, like, all of the resources are provided for you, right? Like, I'm here as a facilitator to help you through it, and I'll pull you in small groups if you need them. I'll pull you one on one if you need it. But there is no getting away with not doing the thing anymore. Like, you have to do the thing. You have to show me that you learned something you there's no, oh, I didn't have time, or I was absent, or, you know, like, oh, well, I'm just gonna not do it. It's like, No, you are. You're gonna do it. And, and I think that's what's so different about this. And so we know we as human beings are just so quick to just, like, blame other human beings because it's easier, rather than like, oh, wait a minute, I'm actually messing up. This is scary for me. I need to sit with, sit with my fear and figure out why this is so scary for me. And I think again, that's that emotional intelligence piece that we really want our students to continue navigating and learning and unlearning and unpacking and all of that good stuff, right? So oh my gosh, dude, this is, this is so great. April. I love this conversation so much. Have you have you talked to other parents outside of because I know you're in the school right? You're in the school district. Have you had conversations with other parents about this that is not like school related April Burton 37:13 at the very beginning last when we first had our first group come through, last school year, I had a couple parents who were like, okay, so what is this modern classroom thing? And so I even the term mastery base is it's actually foreign to a lot of our parents, because we have this culture of mastery means an A Well, actually in the traditional classroom, mastery just means that you can do a to do list, like you can do homework, and you can, you know, play the game of school. It doesn't necessarily mean that you really know the content. And so we had, we had some conversations about what that means, a little pushback on so a test is going to be worth this large percentage and homework is worth hardly anything. And I was like, Yes, this is what we want. This is would you want a doctor to do surgery on you that only did his homework and failed every test like we this is what we want of our kids. This is how our kids are going to be successful in whatever they do post secondary. So after we have those conversations, they it starts to make a little bit more sense. But, you know, our parents didn't learn this way. I didn't learn this way, and so I do understand that it is a very strange concept, also the concept of we have a classroom of students who could all be doing something different, like to many parents that seems chaotic and like unattainable for a teacher, but like, we have masterful teachers in our classrooms that can and do handle this every I mean they do. I mean, the first five minutes of class, you are bombarded with 30 different requests. Our teachers can handle this. This is what they do. They're great at it. So just asking our parents, you know, like, just trust the system a little bit and ask your child a lot of naive questions, just trying to wrap your head around it, and usually, usually, the kids have the answers, like they they come through and explain it. Toni Rose Deanon 39:26 And I think that is more beautiful than anything. Like, if your child can explain it, yo, they got it. They got it right. It's like, hey, what do you have to do? Tell me all the things I feel like that is a win for me, as opposed to just like a child being like, I don't know, idk, you know April Burton 39:46 and and believe you, believe me, like my kid is a hit a very few words, like, when he's like, Yeah, I just gotta watch some videos tonight. I'm like, I know what that actually means, but I could see where another parent would. Take that as, oh, okay, you just gotta watch some videos. So that's when a parent who's not as familiar, might ask things like, Oh, can I watch it along with you? Or what are you doing when you watch this video? Or what are you gonna do in class? Like, how does your teacher know if you watch this video? You know, just those follow up kinds of things. Most of our parents, I think, expect our kids that go in, sit in a classroom, be talked at for some time, have some homework to practice whatever they were talked at about, and not really have any opportunity to show ownership, where this does require a little bit of ownership, so we just have to ask a lot of questions. Toni Rose Deanon 40:39 Yeah, we definitely April. This reminded me, as a sixth grade English team, we definitely had probing questions for our parents and caregivers, so that they can actually have those questions ready for their for their kids at home, as opposed to just being like, Hey, how was school today? It was like, No, I know that you're learning about theme. So tell me about theme. What is the concept of theme? What is the chapter, you know, like, chapter 12. Y'all read that in class, or you had it in the video, like, so we really provided this, the probing questions for our caregivers, parents, every week, so that they knew, Okay, this is the question. These are the questions to ignite conversation, as opposed to, like, How is school? It was good. And then that's the conversation, right? So, you know, kind of, like, similar with your probing questions with the counselors, and I would highly suggest also having probing questions for caregivers who have a lot of questions. And, like, you said, really, like, you know, seeking to understand, right? Like, hey, I'm curious. Show me. Like, what do you do? Tell me how you access the videos. What do you do after the video? What does a mastery check look like? How do you know if you've mastered it, right? So really asking those questions to have a better understanding, yeah, oh my gosh. I love that. And I think, like, one of the things too, April, I'm sure you've had this that you've had this experience too, like going into a classroom and not even having to talk to the teacher at all talking to the student and just being like, Hey, tell me what you're doing. And they can literally tell you all the things that they need, where they need to go if they have a question, who to ask. And then the teachers working in small groups, one on one, walking around, you know, and also have the capacity to chat with me if I needed, without interrupting the learning that's happening in the classroom. So I really, really love that. Okay, so April, what do you hope to see in the future? I think I kind of know, but I'm gonna let you say it, and then what goals do you have as, like, a school leader, as a district leader who's helping, supporting, you know, educators, as well as just like, knowing, like, holy cow. I get to work with educators implementing this model, and I actually get to see the impact at home with my child. April Burton 42:47 I would love to see this opportunity for all students, and I would love to shift our focus from that grade to mastery of concepts. And I think as a district, we're really making some great strides in that direction. We're looking at and implementing learning progressions so that students can kind of see this is where I'm at, no matter what course they're in, not just our modern classrooms classrooms, but in all of our classrooms, thinking through that, that working towards mastery, because that we want to send our students out of here into a world where they can advocate for themselves and they can realize that they are in control. This is not something we're doing to them. So that, I think is, is probably my biggest goal. I had, like I said, two other kids that have gone through our school system, and I kind of just feel sad for for them, in some ways, that they would show up and go into a classroom, they would do the things they would leave the classroom and never really have the opportunity to collaborate with a peer sitting next to them, or wrestle with Do I have the right idea? Do I not have the right idea? Or have that direct one to one feedback from their teacher? And we really want to give our teachers those opportunities to feel good about themselves, and it feels really good when you're helping a student find their way, and when you're helping a student to actually get to that mastery level, especially those kids who have already identified themselves as I'm a bad I'm a bad student. Just learning is not for me. School is not for me. I'm just trying to get through but when you can actually impact them and help them to make progress towards mastery, that's that's huge, and it feels great. And I want that for my the teachers I work with, and I want that for the students here. Toni Rose Deanon 44:46 I feel like I could listen to you all day long, April, because, yes, very similar. That's also my hope. Is that, you know, we can trust our kids like our students can make the right decisions. I swear y'all we can relate. Push that control and let our babies have this learning environment, because we've already gone through our learning journey. So we got to create a space where students feel supported even when they're messing up, even when they're making mistakes, right? And that's that's how they learn. That's how they get excited about learning again, because learning is so much fun. I will say this all the time. Learning is so much fun, we just kind of create the space to bring back that fun. So April, how can our listeners connect with you? April Burton 45:27 Well, I am, I guess it's x these days. So I am at mme Burton, so that's mme because I used to teach French. There was the abbreviation for madam. And then I'm also on LinkedIn, which I'm just April Burton on LinkedIn. So there are two places that I hang out. I will also say I am pretty and I'm a pretty active Lurker on the modern classrooms Facebook page, I will tell you. So Facebook is not my my favorite social media place, but there, I tell my teachers this all the time, there is a place you can go to that is constructive and positive, and that is the modern classroom. There's, there's modern classroom groups for every content area. Pick one, but they are all very constructive, like, helpful, positive places to be. Toni Rose Deanon 46:16 Oh, I love that. Thank you so much for just like, hyping up our Facebook group, and yeah, we got like 20,000 educators in there, honestly, just sharing all of their resources, their concerns, their challenges, like really asking for help. And our community is just like, Here, here's all the things. Also, if this doesn't work for you, that's okay. And also just seeing teachers be like, Hey, I created this thing. Give me feedback. I also think that's so powerful, because again, there's more thought partners, more eyes on things, and again, just like creating this community, right? Because we want community, we really want community. So and listeners will put all of the ways to connect with April in the show notes, so you don't have to worry about that. You'll just be able to click on it. But April, thank you so much for sharing your experience and expertise with us. I really enjoyed this time with you and just getting to know you a little bit more listeners. Remember, you can always email us at podcast, at modern classrooms.org, and you can find the show notes for this episode of podcast. Dot modern classrooms.org/ 221, we'll have this episodes video uploaded on modern classrooms YouTube channel and transcript uploaded by Friday. So be sure to check back to access those also. We are asking our listeners to leave a review. If this podcast has been helpful in supporting you to create a human centered learning environment through a blended, self paced, mastery based model, it does help other folks find it. Thank you all for listening. Awesome. Thank you. Zach Diamond 47:39 Thank you so much for listening. You can find links to topics and tools we discussed in our show notes for this episode, and remember, you can learn more about our work at www.modernclassrooms.org and you can learn the essentials of our model through our free course at learn.modernclassrooms.org you can follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram at modernclassproj, that's P, R, O, J, we are so appreciative of all you do for students in schools. Have a great week, and we'll be back next Sunday with another episode of the modern classrooms project podcast. You Transcribed by https://otter.ai