Zach Diamond  0:03  
welcome to the modern classrooms project podcast. Each week we bring you discussions with educators on how they use blended, self paced and mastery based learning to better serve their students. We believe teachers learn best from each other, so this is our way of lifting up the voices of leaders and innovators in our community. This is the modern classrooms project podcast.

Toni Rose Deanon  0:25  
Hello and welcome to the modern classrooms project podcast. My name is Toni Rose Deanon, they them pronouns, a designated hype person here at MCP. And y'all, what a treat, because I am joined today by Tre'Nee Uzoka, and Dr. Ifeoma Uzoka, I'm saying that correctly, right? close enough. Oh my gosh, please correct me

Dr. Ifeoma Uzoka  0:48  
Nigerian accent. So it's okay. That's fair enough, but it's close. You're good. 

Toni Rose Deanon  0:54  
Oh, okay, okay, got it. Got it. And I also just want to say that you are a doctor, so I want to respect that. I appreciate you put some respect on that name, right? So I am actually not going to introduce you, because I feel like you too would do a better job of introducing yourself than I would. So again, before that, though, like, thank you again for saying yes to the podcast. I know that you and I, both of y'all and I met at Georgia, etc, and I think it was like the last session that I went to and y'all talked about math and AI. So I'm really excited to dive deep into this conversation, because as an English teacher myself, going into that space and learning more about what you do, I was just really inspired and amazed. And I was like, Well, I got to have y'all on the podcast, because I think this is going to be such a vibe. So yeah, let's talk about, let's talk about who you are. Introduce yourself and let us know how your education journey has you know has has gone along.

Tre'Nee Uzoka  1:50  
My name is Tre'Nee Uzoka. I have been teaching it'll be 12 years in January, I in the beginning, I did not want to be a teacher at all like I remember sitting in my 12th grade statistics class telling my classmates, um, I would never be a teacher because y'all are so disrespectful and look at me now. I love my job. Um, graduated from Georgia State University, the real GSU with a Bachelor of Science in Mathematics. Yes, yes. Continued on. Get my master's in secondary education with a concentration in mathematics as well as an educational specialist in instructional technology. Right now I'm kind of geared towards the reason why we're doing the AI in mathematics is because now I am more so of an AP computer science teacher. I am joined. I am enjoying that ride currently. But I got into the education world because math was my thing. I was all that was the one thing I was good at. And when I was in college, I'm like, I don't know what I can do. So math I went into, going into math education, and it was basically trying to educate those that look like me and wanted them to be because, as we know, you're an English teacher. So when I asked you about math and we were talking, you were like, Oh, I don't know. No, I can't do this. And that's really one of the reasons why, because it's all about, you know, everybody is capable, but math is that number one, hated subject, and I wanted to change the narrative with that. And I think what really helped me was, when I was in high school, I had the same math teacher for three years straight, and she was phenomenal, and funny story, I ended up working alongside with her when I started teaching so but just showing that math can be fun. Math can be engaging. Engaging. It doesn't have to be scary, and we can all do it and just, you know. And then I also like the rewarding part is seeing my babies graduate and seeing them in adulthood, and seeing the things that them coming back saying, Oh, my God, Miss Uzoka., you were so right. Oh, I learned this. Thank you for teaching me this. Because you know what, people fail to realize everything starts with teachers. You need a teacher for everything. And I like being that pillar for everything and leading these kids in the next generation into the, you know, into the real world and into their path and their passion. So that's all of me in a quick little synopsis, and then I'm going to hand it over to my beautiful and lovely wife, Dr. Ifeoma Uzoka. 

Dr. Ifeoma Uzoka  4:29  
I love it. I hope that means you're cooking dinner tonight,

Tre'Nee Uzoka  4:32  
 always. 

Dr. Ifeoma Uzoka  4:34  
So this is my year, 25 in education. I just can't believe it's 25 I was that teacher year three. I was like, Oh no, I'm not gonna make it to 10. So now I'm at year 25 but I started off with a job as an actuary. They didn't make it because of 911 so that's the year I started in education. So everybody used to tell. In college, you're a math major. And I changed my major four times and landed on math. That let me know I really don't like reading and writing and I'm not creative. So all the majors I picked prior required creativity and a lot of reading and writing. So I was like, Okay, this math thing, let's give it a try, and that. And I actually minored in physics. But my parents were like, Hey, can we just start a major and finish. Let's just start something and finish it. Get to the finish line, and then my masters and doctorate are both in math as well. So I wasn't the typical math student in high school, even though I was born in the United States, in New York City, both my parents are Nigerians, so I'm the non typical ESOL student, so English was my second language. And throughout my career in education, I was always assessed on my English. So when I finished high school, I only finished at Algebra Two, so I wasn't even the typical math major, and even take pre calculus or calculus so but I enjoyed math. So in high school, I always had A's in math. Everything else that required reading and writing was the part. And I nobody picked up like, hey, this girl is actually good in math. Let's push her there. So when I got into college and I changed my major a couple of times, I landed on math, and I enjoy the productive struggle. So when students tell me, Well, you have a doctorate in math, you like math, you love it, and I'm like, Well, I appreciate it. So in my career, I've taught middle school, high school and at the collegiate level, and I just love getting students to appreciate math, and in my current role, I'm no longer in the classroom, but I'm in the classroom. I'm a district math specialist, so I get to interact with students and teachers every day. So it's still, I'm still in the classroom, as some may say, but I have a couple of middle schools and high schools that I support their math leaders. And so it's been a, it's been a great journey at year 25

Toni Rose Deanon  7:09  
I mean, between the two of y'all, that's 37 years of experience, 

Dr. Ifeoma Uzoka  7:13  
okay, you just, you just aged me.

Toni Rose Deanon  7:17  
No, no, I'm just saying, like, you have 25 right? And Tre'Nee has 12. So I was like, Yo, that is a that is a huge amount of experience, which I love. And I really resonate with your both of your experiences with math. I know for me, or honestly, the way that y'all felt about English, the reading and writing part, that's exactly how I felt about math. And so for me, even as an adult, math is still really scary. I struggled with budgeting because I didn't want to look at numbers and don't want to

Dr. Ifeoma Uzoka  7:46  
subtract from your bank account. That's what it is. It's not I'm like that too. I don't even want to look at the bill. I spoke to the mailman. I said, Look, you can get a little $5 gift card if you stop putting these bills in this mailbox.

Toni Rose Deanon  7:59  
Okay? I mean, that's so real too. That is so real. And I think, you know, in my head, I was like, if I just avoid it, then it's not going to be my problem, right? And, and, you know, my role is kind of shifting to supporting more math teachers, and I'm sitting here like, holy cow, I really need to do a better job of creating a relationship, a sustainable relationship, with math, because I had a quite a toxic relationship with math in my K 12 experience. And so when you think, when you when you're talking about the whole scary aspect of math, that is me, I am still kind of scared of numbers. And then, you know the Asian stereotype of like, Oh, you must be good at math. Like, people assume I'm a math teacher all the time, and I'd be like, Girl, bye. Not me at all. 

Dr. Ifeoma Uzoka  8:44  
Everybody thought like, I'm, like, an artist or something else. And I was like, No, I do math. And they're like, You sure don't sing, or No, I just math.

Toni Rose Deanon  8:53  
And it's interesting that people go off of like the way someone looks right, to just be like, Oh, this is, this is how it must be for you. And so again, thank you for sharing all of your experiences. I know in the math space, we often talk about productive struggle, right? And so it's this piece of I mean, there's that learned helplessness that comes along as well, because teachers are like, I actually just don't even want to have the time and capacity to wait on you to productively struggle. Let me just give you the answers, right? And so it's okay, let's talk about AI though, right? Because, like you, you named all the things about math that, like, hey, it's scary. There's a lot of emotions that go behind math. There's a lot of interesting things that are being assessed outside of math skills and abilities, right? So, and you had this beautiful presentation about math and AI and the use of AI, and how both of y'all have really just embraced it and accepted it as part of your teaching and learning experiences, right, your journey. And so, what's your hot take on using AI? In math classes.

Tre'Nee Uzoka  10:02  
Well, I will first say I'm the number one teacher of not reinventing the wheel. If it's there, utilize it. Do not try to recreate anything. And I think because we have as teachers, we have so many time constraints, and we have to get things done at a certain period of time because of standardized testing and all of those things. We need something that makes it easier on the teacher and planning part. So that is mainly what our presentation is about, is how to make it more fun and engaging but quicker because we can we do we can sit down and make the assignments and do it, but it takes too much time, and we don't have the time to do it. So let's utilize AI and get it to create those fun and engage it. And sometimes we use it as a blueprint, because, like you state it too, AI is not always correct, and then math is not like I've had a student. I'll go ahead and tell you I had a student in my AP computer science class put in one of his pre calculus problems in copilot, and it told him that x equals 81 over nine, which equals 27 I'll let that sit there. So he realized, he was like, Wait, this is not right. So AI hasn't even accomplished and even what I've realized too, in making these assignments and different activities, it always has the fine print line in AI, please, teachers, please check the answers and ensure that they're correct, because we can be wrong. So it's even letting us know that, hey, let's check it. But I love it because it is that blueprint, and then I can edit it and change it and shift it the way that I need to for my students, but I don't have to create the whole thing from top to bottom. And it is some teachers that are still trying to, you know, they're a little bit hesitant, they're still not wanting to use it, but I'm just, you know, we're trying to show them that, hey, it is a way to use it for good, to help you would take off the workload, and

Toni Rose Deanon  12:02  
I think that's important. They use it for good, right? Like using it intentionally, because I know AI is overwhelming. It is scary, it's overwhelming. And then to a lot of teachers, it could also just be like a new quote, unquote Initiative, or like a new tool, or a new something that, like whatever this is going to pass by. I think another thing that I really appreciate about AI too, is that there's now more ownership for students, really, really, right? Like, hey, I can do my own research. I can look for the questions. It creates a more self directed learner. And then also this piece of like, error analysis that's huge in math, right? Like, error now, yes, you have AI, but like you said, trinae, like, there's not a like, there's mistakes. Like, nothing is perfect, there's mistakes. So now we as human beings have to figure out what the errors are, do a whole error analysis, because then that creates a deeper understanding with students, right? And so that's something that I really appreciate. And I think another thing too that I appreciate is that AI is pushing teachers to let go of control.

Dr. Ifeoma Uzoka  13:05  
I want to, I want you to explain that, but I also want to add that to use AI, you still have to have some foundation, some knowledge. So even if you're using AI to edit a paper. You have to create the paper, yes, because a real teacher knows that you did not do this. So, you know, you still have to input things in AI, to personalize it, you know,

Toni Rose Deanon  13:36  
yeah, and I, and I, and I, yes, I agree with that, because teachers are still the facilitators, right? Teachers are still the ones that have, like, the content, the skills, the standards that they need to work through as a class together. And I think what I'm saying with the AI and relinquishing control is that a lot of the times AI, I think, has highlighted that the stuff that we're doing in class is real basic, right? If a kid can just put that in AI, that means, like, we got to do something else, right? And so this whole relinquishing control of like, Oh, here's more worksheets, or here's more work for busy work, busy work, and kids are just like, spitting it into AI, right? Like teachers are then, now just gonna have to be like, Okay, I really do have to be a guide. Like, here's a skill that we're learning, here's the standard that we're learning, but now there are different opportunities and different options for us to get to that mastery level that we want.

Dr. Ifeoma Uzoka  14:30  
So one of the schools I was supporting, they use Desmos right the online graph and scientific calculator and graphing calculator, and they have Dok so they're getting ready for their state test, their Georgia milestones, and you have Dok one questions, dok 2d, okay, three. And I was trying to explain to them Dok one questions, 30 seconds or less, right? But these students have been ingrained put the problem in Des. Most no the purpose of a deal, you should just be able to look at the question and understand certain characteristics and bam, answer it. And I was trying to explain to them, when you take 30 Seconds to put this in the Desmos, that lets me know you don't understand the fundamentals of what is going on. And this is the level one question, and almost 30% of your test is based on these level one questions. And I was trying to tell them, the level two questions are close to 50% of your test. So 70% of your tests, you should not be spending more than a minute answering the question. Okay, so that is the shortfall. It's like when there's crunch time. You can't just you have to have some knowledge behind it. You. You know we have deadlines. So if I'm relying on AI for everything, it's I don't have anything. I don't have a foundation. So there is a balance. So even when there I had to stop them, why are you guys touching Desmos? Let me ask you these questions, and Toni, don't get upset. And I even had to interrupt the teacher, and because she said, put it in Desmos. And I said, Guys, what is Y? Y equals negative 3x, plus five. Is the graph increasing or decreasing? They were like, decreasing. And I said, What's the y intercept? They said five. And I was like, so why are we touching Desmos? You just answered those two questions. Which graph goes with that? Bam, we're done. That's 30 seconds. And I said, but we're so trained, like we tell kids touch the calculator. No, they're things that kids still need to know. I mean, AI was created by humans, you know what? I mean, so the new human needed to know something. So I told my students, whatever you put in AI has is giving you what you put in so, but you have to know something to put into that's 

Tre'Nee Uzoka  16:50  
And it's funny, because I was in a meeting yesterday, a computer science meeting, and we were talking about, you know, the students use the AI, and one of my teachers said, Oh, I make them give me the prompt and what the prompt was. And that goes back to her saying, you have to know, so it's like, what are you telling it? So you have to know what to tell it in order for it to dish out the information. Because I will be honest. Chatgpt, I call them chatty. That's my best friend. I love to death. So therefore, when I put things into him, or how I had to learn how to utilize to get what I want, I had to be specific and actually know what I'm talking about.

Toni Rose Deanon  17:32  
I really appreciate you both saying there's got to be that basic knowledge, the foundational skills that students need to have, to be able to do the error analysis, to be able to point out the different things. One of the things that really stood out to me is that this is all tied into literacy, right? Like, hey, you got to be able to write a prompt on AI, and you got to write it well and specific enough so that you can get the help that you need and not just cheat. So there's this literacy piece too, and I love that. It's like English and Math getting married. And this is so beautiful.

Tre'Nee Uzoka  18:02  
It's a situationship. There you go, a

Toni Rose Deanon  18:05  
situation ship where it's like, okay, there's literacy skills here, because I know that math teachers are also trying to do more with word problems, right? Like more literacy in their math classes. And so again, these are really good skills, the error analysis part, the critical thinking skills part, right? Like those are all really important, the skills that we need outside of the classroom, honestly, in the real world. And you know, another thing that y'all were talking about too, with AI, you said, AI will not replace us anytime soon, probably later, but not anytime soon. And I had a conversation with another educator about AI, and he said, AI will not replace us, right? Teachers who know AI will so you might as well get on the program like you might as well get to know AI. 

Dr. Ifeoma Uzoka  18:52  
Oh, that's the ELA teacher. You said math teacher. That was a math teacher.

Toni Rose Deanon  18:58  
No, he was, 

Dr. Ifeoma Uzoka  18:59  
I didn't come up. Things. That's the ELA teacher right there. That was real deep,

Toni Rose Deanon  19:08  
yeah, and I really, I really appreciated that too, because, again, it's centering humans, right? Like humans are creating these things. We are not just going to be easily replaced like that by robots, because ultimately, our students still need us to establish relationships, to create that trust and to create that bond as well. Of being like, Oh, wow, you really care about me. You're teaching me to love this subject that I'm really struggling with, or I had no idea that I would actually enjoy it, right? So I again, I love this conversation, and I feel like we could keep going on and on and on. Y'all also shared a Padlet with us. The RE, see, I can't even speak revolutionizing, thank you. The K 12 math class with AI. Can you tell us a little bit more about this Padlet?

Tre'Nee Uzoka  19:54  
Um, so the Padlet hosts all of our information. Um. So as we're doing the presentation, we want something that's ongoing as we're presenting so and and that teachers can always come back to and utilize the resources there. So on our Padlet, we have, we had like when we start our presentations, we always start with a question. Try to fill the room of who's familiar with AI, because you will be surprised that there are some in doing our prep. We've done, what, three so far, a lot of people are not on the bandwagon yet, and still have, you know, still haven't touched it, and that's why they're coming to us to get that information. So we have that opening up question. You know how comfortable you are what, what platforms you have utilized or know about, and then our presentation is there, along with is there are two popular platforms that we use, and we discuss Magic School. Ai, we not getting paid for that, though, yeah, or edu. AI, we're not getting paid for we did reach out and we present on them, we and it shows that that's also another added bonus to show that we really love it. And we use these things because we're going around the country to present about these, and we're not getting paid, because a lot of our professional developments for Atlanta public schools, we do them online, right lately, doing them online. So I walk into schools and people like, you're the lady that did the Padlet I've been using your Padlet girl. And I'm like, Yeah, that's what it's for. Is because one thing as teachers, we have these professional developments, but there's no follow up. There's no can I reach back out or back to resources? And so that's where the Padlet actually came from, was so teachers can go back and have those resources as well as know a way to reach out, because, you know, people not keeping up with cards anymore. And then even when you put your information in people's phones, it's like, oh, I don't remember who was it? Who? So go to the Padlet. You see my LinkedIn, you see her. LinkedIn, you see our website. You're still able to contact us without, you know, trying to figure out where to find us.

Toni Rose Deanon  22:17  
And I think something that I really appreciate about y'all presentation too, is that it's such an easy way in, right? So for folks who have never, ever touched AI, or don't have any slight interest in AI, right? Came into your presentation being like, Oh, wow, I could do that. Oh, wow, I could do this. And I think one of the things to this, that that this brought up for me, is that, okay, there aren't a lot of trainings or support for educators to play with AI. And that's probably why there's or time or time, right? And that's probably why there's a bit of a resistance, or even, like, why education, education school systems, are behind AIS, because there's a lack of training and support when it comes to AI. And so I think, you know, the the attendees, the participants who showed up at your presentation, they were all in awe, because they were just like, Oh, it doesn't have to be hard. It doesn't have to be challenging. This is actually really great that I can make these things in two seconds,

Dr. Ifeoma Uzoka  23:16  
in two seconds. Girl, so don't get dinged on that lesson plan. Some AI on it. And that was the whole thing of us coming together and making our consulting business was so that we can reach those school districts to train those teachers and show them how to utilize it and play. Because I'm I'm a type of person I can't sit and get I can't if I'm in a if I'm in professional development, don't talk at me, because it's not going to work on me. So we That's why we created the workspace of talking about it. Okay, now you go, do it, you go. And even when we did the math fest conference, we walked, we actually just walked around and just looked at what people were doing, they talked to us, they asked us questions, and it was more of a work session and a workshop engaging, more so than just the sit and get exactly and we're looking at trends and education as well. What are the trends? What is going on? So because we're talking about what, let's look at this data. What is this data saying about your school? Oh, the ELL students are outperforming you, and English is their second language. What is going on here? So, you know, just having these conversations, you know, and just exploring trends and letting and opening up people's eyes and letting people see that, you know, when you have that ELL student, it's not always easy, but or it's not always hard. Don't make assumptions because they don't know the language, they don't know the math, or vice versa, you know? So it's just an interesting realm that we're in an education right now.

Toni Rose Deanon  24:56  
Yeah, and I think that's one of the reasons why I've also, like, we've had, um. And one of our past teachers come and talk about math and ell, right? Like, what does that look like for ELL? And, you know, same thing what you said trinae, too. Of like, math is universal. That is exactly what he said, as well as, like, people, like our kids know numbers, like, numbers are easier than, like, knowing words, right? Because it's a little bit different. But this is really good to keep in mind, too. Of like, the trends of being looking at data, looking at how data kind of shows up in like, different ways, right? Like, what is assessment, show, saying what? And I also want to say too, that emotions are data as well, right? Like, people don't like to think of it that way, but for me to make it make sense, for me, I'm like emotions, emotions, how you're feeling about it, that is data. Because if you go from like, hating math to now you love math, hey, that's good data, right? Like, that is something to keep in mind.

Toni Rose Deanon  25:48  
So I really appreciate all the things that y'all are doing. Thank you for creating an opening that teachers can come in and have conversations about things that they may not have the space and the community to have conversations. So I'm really excited for us to continue collaborating and again. Thank you so much for being in this, this space to have conversations about your experiences, about what you're seeing, about how you are sharing your knowledge, about AI and all the things that y'all are doing in both of your classrooms and districts and teachers that you all work with. So I appreciate that piece is there, and I know that you know that you know listeners, we're going to put that Padlet in the show notes, so that you don't have to like Google or do anything like that. You can click on it, you can see all the information. So it'll be easy peasy for you all. And before we go, I would love to hear like, what do you hope to see in the future about in education and math education in particular,

Dr. Ifeoma Uzoka  26:39  
we are actually looking at starting our own podcast. We actually have an Instagram, but we haven't started but so this is cool that we're doing this, yes, so we're inviting you, so we're gonna just keep on inviting each other to stuff educators after dark, right? I love that. I love it too, but, you know, I don't want to say it's raw and uncut, like BET back in the day that had that 2am

Toni Rose Deanon  27:06  
bring it back, baby, bring it back.

Dr. Ifeoma Uzoka  27:10  
But I just want a space where people can really just talk. That's what our next goal is. Because this space right here, we could go on forever with this. We talked about ELA that is not us. We talked about idioms, we talked about ELL students, you know, on top of AI and you know, educators need that space.

Toni Rose Deanon  27:31  
That's great. I love that. I'm excited about this educators after dark. I think it's gonna be a vibe.

Dr. Ifeoma Uzoka  27:36  
Thank you. Thank you, Toni. 

Tre'Nee Uzoka  27:37  
I just want to see math in the future, I just want to see the anxiety go away. I just want to see the excitement about math and to know that it's not as complicated as people make it seem. It doesn't have a race, it's not gender, it's not simple, like it's because what you know, what I have to tell my students, the number one thing is, when would I use this in the real world? And what I tell my students is, math is that, and you stated it earlier, Toni was math is critical. It teaches you those critical thinking skills. It teaches you those problem solving skills. It teaches you how, step by step, to go and attack an issue and be able to logically follow through with it. So it's not just the numbers behind it, but it's the process and the procedure that you take to get to that solution. And I think once people understand the deep concept about it, and not just, you know, fear, the numbers and all of that. It will a lot of people will see, oh, it's not that bad. It's not and, you know, like, and 

Dr. Ifeoma Uzoka  28:47  
because I told you, Toni, we could keep on going. You need to.

Toni Rose Deanon  28:54  
Yeah, no. Thank you. And I just again, another thing I wanted to say to that real world application piece, right? Once you take away that anxiety piece, then there is a lot more appreciation and joy. It has to be relatable. It has to be relevant. It has to be and that's when you know that you have to get to know your students to see what is relevant, to see what is relatable. Okay, another closing. Thank you. Ah, period, I appreciate you too, so much. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your knowledge. Thank you.

Tre'Nee Uzoka  29:29  
We appreciate you too. Thank you for the invite and 

Dr. Ifeoma Uzoka  29:31  
thank you Toni.

Zach Diamond  29:37  
Thank you so much for listening. Listeners. Remember you can always email us at podcast@modernclassrooms.org and you can find the links to topics and tools we discussed, as well as more info on this week's announcements and events in the show notes for this episode at podcast.modernclassrooms.org We'll have this episode's recap and transcript. Uploaded to the modern classrooms blog on Friday, so be sure to check there or check back in the show notes for this episode if you'd like to access those. And if you enjoy our podcast and it's been helpful in supporting you to create a blended, self paced, mastery based learning environment, we would love if you could leave a review that does help other folks find our podcast. And of course, you can always learn the essentials of our model if you want to go beyond the podcast through our free course at learn.modernclassrooms.org and you can follow us on social media at modern class. Proj, that's P, R, O, J, we are so appreciative of all the hard work you do for students and schools. Have a great week, and we'll be back next Sunday with another episode of the modern classrooms project podcast. You.

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