Zach Diamond  0:03  
Welcome to the modern classrooms project podcast each week we bring you discussions with educators on how they use blended, self paced and mastery based learning to better serve their students. We believe teachers learn best from each other, so this is our way of lifting up the voices of leaders and innovators in our community. This is the modern classrooms project podcast. Hello and welcome to the modern classrooms project podcast. My name is Zach Diamond, and I'm a high school media production teacher in Washington, DC, and a modern classrooms implementer. And today I'm joined by Laura Campbell, a fourth grade teacher and modern classrooms mentor in Durham, North Carolina. Welcome to the podcast, Laura. It's great to have you.

Laura Campbell  0:49  
Hey, I am happy to be here. Hey everybody.

Zach Diamond  0:52  
It's really excited to have you, and thank you for coming on. We're going to talk today about using the MCP model in elementary math, but before we get started with that, why don't you tell me and our listeners a little bit more about yourself. Tell us who you are. You know everything about your education journey and how you started your modern classrooms journey.

Laura Campbell  1:10  
Yeah, I have been, this is actually my 24th year in North Carolina public schools. Wow. And they've all been in North Carolina, all public schools. I know 24 years, it sounds like a lot, and I feel like I've done everything in elementary. I've taught first grade and second grade and third grade and fourth grade. I've done intervention. I've and then I came out of the classroom to do some coaching, and I loved coaching, and as I was coaching every year for three years in a row, someone in my fourth grade team would leave before the end of the school year, and I was always suddenly a fourth grade teacher. And so the last time it happened, I told my principal, just leave me there. I don't want to go back and forth. I love the classroom anyway. Leave me there and lo and behold, the same year I went back into the classroom, my district was actually, or someone maybe around a classroom was actually paying teachers to pilot this math program. And you know, teachers are usually not paid to do anything. We are paying other people to help us become better teachers. And so my team and I jumped on it. We were like, Sure, we'll try anything to help fourth grade math. And so we kind of went in blind on the MCP journey, and here I am now all in totally

Zach Diamond  2:42  
that's awesome. And, yeah, you know the like the going back and forth becoming a classroom teacher on and off, I feel like there's obviously a whole discussion to be had about teacher retention, right? And sustainability in our profession. That's not the topic of this episode, but we were talking a little bit before we started recording about how the model helps to make it feel a little bit more sustainable. So hopefully that will come up a little bit later. But yeah, and the classroom. The allure of the classroom, right? It pulls us it pulls us back in. It does all right. So we are going to focus mostly on math, I think. But before we do give us kind of the full rundown of your MCP implementation. I know that elementary teachers teach all the subjects, and so I'm curious to hear how you implement across all of the classes that you teach. And I guess I have to ask like, one thing that sort of baffles me as a non elementary teacher is how you shift gears with kids, like when you go from a class that is modern classrooms to one that's not. I'm just curious to hear all about that because I've never taught elementary, and then we're going to try and focus a little bit more on the nitty gritty of your class afterwards, but tell me about it. Like, generally first.

Laura Campbell  3:51  
Yeah, so in general, math is the only part of the day that I do, like full blown modern classroom, and I steal bits and pieces and all of my other areas, because there's some really good things that go with everything I do. But yeah, that shift to, I mean, our setup is we come in in the morning, we do math first, so that we're doing our modern classroom, and then we transition to other subjects. And there are kids who are like, can't you just do modern classroom for every subject, you know, like they but, you know, the wild thing about elementary school teachers is we have to, we have a million preps. We have to prep science and social studies and math and and that was honestly one of the things that was like, huh, if I make all my videos this year, right? So last year I made all my videos. This year, I'm reaping the benefits of my work. I'm like, Oh, I've got a video for that lesson. But the other thing that really attracted me to modern classroom is I am a curriculum girl. I love curriculum. We use Eureka in our district, and that math. Program is amazing. I love everything they do, but I could not figure out, how could I do modern classroom with that? And MCP just did it for us. They partnered with great minds, who writes the Eureka curriculum, and they gave us everything they would need on like a silver platter, like here, this is how you can do it. So that was the other kind of journey of like, oh, I can easily do this, because they've given me everything I need.

Zach Diamond  5:30  
Yeah, that's really cool. I didn't actually know that about the partnership with great minds. So, yeah, it was just done for you. How cool. Okay, so let's get into the details with math a little bit more like tell me about, you know, the tracker you use, the videos that you made, the LMS, and how you deploy your materials. Just tell me everything,

Laura Campbell  5:49  
yeah, you know, one of the things that I tell every when I'm a mentor, I tell every teacher the best thing is for you to just make sure you know you can make changes. And last year I used Google Classroom. I made all my videos and I posted them to Google Classroom. This year I'm using Google Sites, which is working out really nicely for me, but I'm still putting those same videos in and the kids are very disorganized in fourth grade. Lots of elementary students are, and so we are. We don't have a student tracker that they use, but we have a tracker on our whiteboard. And the best thing about elementary students is they love all the little simple things. So they each have a magnet with their initials on it, and they love a reason to get out of their seat. And they love a reason to, you know, go to the board and do something. So they just move their little magnet through the tracker, and they it's their favorite thing to do. It's like, I think half the reason why some of them do their work is so they can go to the board and move their tracker for sure. Yeah. And you know, elementary there's a lot of worry about student feelings, and I'm sure there is in the older kids too. But you know, at first some of the questions are, well, wait a minute, they're going to feel bad if they're on a lesson that's if they're behind or they're going to be racing each other, and they get over that so quick. They just, they just know that they're just doing their own thing. And so that public tracker that we use works out really nicely. 

Zach Diamond  7:23  
It does, and they do get over it. I mean, I've, obviously, I've said this many times, but I'm just amazed by how little that actually comes up in the classroom. And I think also, like, I guess, what they're really, what teachers are really concerned about, is students feeling exposed, right? Because kids who are behind know they're behind, and the tracker, it does, you know, expose them a little bit, but like, it also gives them a path forward. It shows them what to do next,

Laura Campbell  7:47  
and it shows them like, who's already been there. I saw just today, one of my students. He was he needed help, and he knew exactly who to go to, because he went to the person that he knew had already finished the lesson. And I heard him say, You already did this one. How do I do this problem? And they they don't care. And elementary students, here's what's wild about elementary too. They are constantly getting pulled out. So if you have, you know, an IEP, or if you are ESL, or if you are AIG, someone comes and takes you out of the room. It's a revolving door, and so half the time they're on a different lesson because they weren't in the room because they were doing something else. 

Zach Diamond  8:30  
Yeah, and obviously MCP is great for that. Yes. Tell me about the videos like so you mentioned this partnership with great minds in Eureka. Are there pre made videos already, or do you also make videos yourself or both.

Laura Campbell  8:41  
Or it's well, it's both. They people at MCP are making videos that go with every Eureka lesson for our grade level and so on. I know on days that it's a time crunch, I just am like, oh, MCP. Now I will tell you, My children are mad at me when I do that, they're like, Who is this person? You know, we don't want to hear from them. Where's your video? Miss Campbell. We want your video. And there are times where I make videos because North Carolina doesn't follow Common Core standards. And so there's some tweaks in the curriculum that that I make in order to make it address our standard Exactly. But, yeah, making videos at first felt like daunting. Don't make me do this. This is going to be horrible. And then once I got going, I was like, Oh, this is great. But, yeah, MCP provided all the videos, you know, so I have a backup system.

Zach Diamond  9:39  
I mean, that's amazing. That's amazing. But, like, it's great that the kids hold you accountable, right? They tell you that they would rather have you make the videos. But, like, just as a teacher in terms of, like, your work life balance, you know, keeping this sustainable, like we were saying before, like, that's really nice to have that backup,

Laura Campbell  9:57  
absolutely and even the backup. Of my team. You know, I'm like, who's done a video for Lesson Eight? Sure. Oh, I have great, can I post it? Sure, yes, yeah, 

Zach Diamond  10:07  
yeah, is the whole team? MCP,

Laura Campbell  10:10  
yes, our whole team, it's, it's one of those things. And our, I think our district was so smart and trying to get teams signed up for it because it's so much easier. You know? You just go next door and you're like, I tried this. It's horrible. Don't do it again. Oh, I did it this way. It worked well, like, we're constantly making tweaks and keeping each other afloat, because we're all doing the same thing, and it's, it's going really well, yeah,

Zach Diamond  10:40  
that's great. That's great. Yeah, you know, I wish. I wish that. Like, I was gonna say I wish more people talked about this, but we talk about it a lot. Like, teaching is so much trial and error, and there's so many lessons that just bomb, right? There's so many things that you try that you're like, Oh, this is gonna be so great. I've planned this out. I know exactly how it's gonna go, and then you'll do it, and it's like, well, that was a disaster. You know, yeah? Like, teaching is really so much trial and error,

Laura Campbell  11:04  
and when you think you have it, you get a new crop of kids, and they that doesn't work for them, and you gotta try all over again. Absolutely, it's a constant, constant revamping.

Zach Diamond  11:15  
Yeah, for sure. And one thing that I will say as a middle, former middle and now high school teacher, you know, like when I have five different sections of the same class and they're all different groups of kids, and it can completely change the vibe, right? It's the same thing. I imagine it's the same thing on a slower timescale for you, over the course of a year, right? But like that, the group of kids can absolutely be a factor in how successful that is, and so you really learn about your lessons that way. And when something doesn't go well. It's great to have a team that is sort of doing the same thing, so you can, like, bounce ideas off each other and figure out what really does work and what doesn't work. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Let's talk a little bit about the self pacing then. And I guess, like, I'll just let give you free rein here. But I guess what I'm the thing that sort of came to my mind the most is the balance between full group, you know, interactions. Maybe I don't know about lecturing in fourth grade, but like, full group work and then individual, small group work. And I was also imagining kids, like, with manipulatives, which I know is a thing in elementary school. And like, what does that even look like in a self paced class? Because, like, how do you know what kid needs, what and when you're doing things as a full group with with, you know what I'm saying? So just walk me through it.

Laura Campbell  12:24  
Yeah, yeah. And, and before modern classroom, my math class looked like math classes all across the country where I'm standing up front and we're going through the teaching together, and we're going through the problem set together, and we're all moving at the same pace. And what it really was is me, you know, waiting for Student A to get a pencil. We can't, none of us. We've got to wait on this student or and then Student B is like, oh my gosh, I already actually know how to do all this. And they're done with their problem set, and you haven't even started the whole group. And it, it was also like me doing a song and dance. Nobody's listening. Some kids are waiting for me to tell them what to write. You want me to write that? Do you want me to write that? You know, they're not even thinking. And there's always those few students. We all have, the students the same three kids raise their hands and they are the ones doing all the learning, and they're never the ones who need to do all the learning. They're raising their hand because I already know it. And at the same time, our district leaders and our admin are saying you've got to do more small group. You've got to do more small group, but they're also saying you got to follow the curriculum, like, Well, how do I teach this 60 minute math lesson and follow the curriculum and do small groups I can't that's physically impossible, and modern classroom was the first thing I've ever seen that gave us a way. Here's how you do it. Here's how you do your curriculum. Because I know when I decided to do modern classroom, it was because they partnered with curriculum, because I lived in a land where we didn't have curriculum, and I was like, Googling how to teach three digit multiplication. You know, it was like crazy, yeah. And teacher life, yes. And I'm not a curriculum writer. I'm a teacher. I want to implement a curriculum. I don't want to write curriculum. And so this was a way to use my curriculum and check all the boxes. You know, teachers, there's just 1000 people telling us the things we need to get done. How are you working with your ESL, kids? How are you working with how are you pushing your AIG, how are you this? How are you that? And then they give you one lesson. Now, teach this lesson whole group. It it just doesn't match. And MCP is the first thing that matches.

Zach Diamond  14:44  
Yeah, for sure. I mean, I, I remember the stress of of trying to lecture every day. It's similar to what you described, like one kid, like, oh, wait, I need a pencil. And like, I just started, couldn't you have asked me before? You know? And then, in. Other kids, like, should I write that down? And another, you know, like, the kids are just all over the place. I always imagined it was kind of like trying to conduct an orchestra where nobody had learned their parts. Was like, I there's, I can't. It's hard for me to even articulate how impossible that is, you know. And, yeah, so self pacing is the solution to that problem, right? It really is, yes.

Laura Campbell  15:24  
And, and I know people are like, Oh, well, then I'm still teaching. Like, I'm still doing we start together. We always start together. And the kids know it. And they're so cute, though, because some of them are like, could we skip the whole group stuff? I just really want to get my lesson done. Like, no, no, no, we're still gonna do these things, because there are things that we all need to learn together, and there are simply things that, like, I'm the one who knows what they need the most. I'm in the room with them. And so even though I've made these videos, once we get going, I'm like, Ooh, this is something everybody's getting, you know, wrong? I start a whole group, right? But then a majority of the time they're doing their self paced stuff, and I'm actually working with students instead of lecturing. It's so great. It's so great. And then when the kids need to go to the bathroom, they're not missing something, or when they're sick, you know, or they're out with they're out for three days, and you're like, Oh, well, I taught long division yesterday, and you weren't here, so I guess you're not getting that math lesson like it's, it's crazy that the number of things that get streamlined by doing this self paced, mastery based Modern classroom.

Zach Diamond  16:40  
Yeah, for sure, can you I'll put you on the spot. Like, do you think you could give me an example, or a few examples of, like, what might be a full group type of activity, and what might be a self paced type of activity? 

Laura Campbell  16:50  
Yeah. So I do a lot of fluencies, whole group and and Eureka, in math, they have three different fluencies every day that you can choose from, and I usually choose some of those, or I do a review of, we just took this, you know, benchmark test, and everyone got this question wrong. So now that's my warm up and that type of stuff. Sometimes I have warm ups go real fast, like, it's like, you know, quick addition, subtraction, quick multiplication. And sometimes it's kind of a deep dive into a concept that I see that they need. And then sometimes it's a little bit of like pre teaching. Just today, I was like, Hey, today you're about to learn the area model for for multiplication. And then I showed them what I was about to explain in the video. It's like, because the area model is so important of fourth grade, like, I'm gonna need you to hear it 12 or 13 times, yeah.

Zach Diamond  17:50  
And I think it also, it kind of puts a, I don't know how to say this, but like it, it emphasizes it in a way that just putting them into the video wouldn't right. It lets you kind of put a stamp on it absolutely, to say, like, this was important enough to elevate to the level of full group. And in a modern classroom, full group has, has a, I guess, like, a higher level of emphasis, right? Just by virtue of the fact that almost all the learning happens through the videos. Yeah, that's awesome. And I think, I think also, like, just culturally, I think it's good to start in a full group, even just for a minute or two. You know, my my classes, we do block classes, and they're, like, 85 minutes long. I still start with a short, full group thing, just even if they're only going to self pace for the whole class, which we do sometimes, unless they're, like, really on a deadline, and they all know what they need to do, then I don't, then I let them just come, come in, sit down and get to work. But I think it that's the tone, right?

Laura Campbell  18:51  
Yeah, and it builds that community. You still gotta, you know, build that community self paced. And I know that's the thing that people are like, Oh, I don't want them to just work by themselves all the time. They're not, they're not working by themselves. We're building that community with that whole group stuff. And then when I'm doing small groups, my kids are working in partners. They're they're asking each other for help. Like, it's not, when you say individually, you know, self paced. It's not, it doesn't mean alone at all, right? Like, they're still, like, sometimes my class is still way too loud. Like, yep, but yeah, there it's, it's still, it's still building community,

Zach Diamond  19:31  
yeah, for sure. And I think if you don't, it can even be almost more chaotic, right? If you just, if you just let the kids walk in and do whatever and don't set the tone.

Laura Campbell  19:41  
Yes, they would. They would we. We talked about this today in my class. If you give an inch, they take a mile. Like, no, you still have to, here's where, here's how it's going. And the other thing that often happens when we're doing a whole group, like, I do a concept, or I do a fluency, but then I'm also like, walk. Over to the tracker board, and I'm kind of doing a whole group check in. Like, okay, everybody that's on lesson five. If you don't finish today, you got to working lunch, because this you've got to move faster. And everybody that's here, I want you to pause and go do your fracture. You know, there's some of that happening too, just

Zach Diamond  20:18  
sort of like guiding kids as to where, as to where they're going. That's, that's basically what I do, too. It's like, you put the tracker up on the board, or I put the tracker up on the board and just basically talk through it, right? Okay, today we're on lesson three. If you finish lesson, if you finish your first formative you can go on to the next you know, like just sort of announcements, but yeah, just setting the tone, like getting kids centered. We're starting this lesson. We're starting this class period. We're here to learn together. Yeah, that's awesome. And then am I, like, totally off base with the manipulatives, or is that a thing? No, that's a thing. Like, what does that look like in self paced

Speaker 1  20:51  
so? And it's probably different for different grade levels. Although first grade is my love, I would love to do this in first grade too, but in fourth grade, there are still times where that whole group opener, I'm getting out manipulatives and and sometimes I'm doing that because everybody needs it, and sometimes I'm doing that because I need them to know this is the tool that we're using, and here's How you use it, and then it's going to be available. And it's over here in the corner when you need it. And so, oh, okay, so kids can go and get it, or some kids, I say, you will always use it, you know, you've got to do that. And then I always have them at my back table too. And so if we're doing multi digit addition subtraction, and we've got our hundreds, 10s and Ones, I'll have some available for kids who want them, and then I am usually using them at My table in My small group, interesting.

Zach Diamond  21:50  
So I think you kind of flip the switch in my brain. They're like me. Is there like a lesson on the hundreds, 10s and Ones manipulatives, and then they know how to use them, and then they become a tool that they can use when they want to count by 10s or whatever, 

Laura Campbell  22:04  
yes and no. I mean, usually by fourth grade, they've used all the tools already. But interestingly, like when we get into decimals, the block that represented 100 for their entire lives is now poof. It represents one, and that blows their mind. And then the one is now a 100th, and the 10 is now a 10th. And so, okay, so there's a lot of manipulatives, especially at the beginning of a unit, we pull that out to make those, you know, concrete, and then we try to move to the pictorial, and then we move to the abstract. And so there's times that are heavier manipulative than others, too,

Zach Diamond  22:47  
yeah. But so I guess, like, you're, you're sort of teaching them what these objects mean conceptually, and then they become tools that they can use as needed, right? I'm sort of imagining like, you know, I teach audio production, and so we have microphones, and we have interfaces. And, you know, there are several lessons where I spend weeks teaching them how to use a microphone and how to use an interface. But then once they know, you know, they plan a podcast, or they plan a narration or whatever, and then when they're ready to record, they just go get the microphone and interface whenever they need it. Is it similar to that? 

Laura Campbell  23:21  
Yes, that, yeah, you, I can't believe that you could use some things in my mind, totally different and but yes, that's exactly what it is. Here's the thing we're going to use, I'm going to teach you how to use it, and then if you need it, go get it, 

Zach Diamond  23:36  
and then, and then it's, it's like, there for you. I don't know if I'm right about this, but I always think of that as being kind of like a Montessori thing, like, here's there's stuff in the classroom that is there for you if you need it, right? I'll teach you how to use it. I'll teach you what it's for, and then it's yours.

Laura Campbell  23:50  
It's also one of the shifts of modern classroom that I love, because there's so many classrooms that are are micromanaged. You don't get a pencil, you ask me, you don't sharpen your pencil. You ask me, you don't go to the closet and get what you need. You ask me. And I am sometimes it blows their mind, because I'm like, don't ask me. I am busy. I am busy teaching this group. Do not approach me. Go get what you need. I'm not involved. Like and and they love that elementary students who have been told what to do their entire lives, well, they come in two categories. They either like, love it and run with it, or they literally are like, What do I do? Someone has to tell me what to do, and that that takes a little time. But yeah,

Zach Diamond  24:37  
so I want to talk a little bit about, like, developing students mindsets and their sort of self image as learners. And you know, you just mentioned that there are students who come into into your class with a lot of, I guess, needs when it comes to, like, asking you for things and they are very dependent, and others who aren't, I'll say, as someone who's only taught students. Yes, from middle school up. Like my sense has always been that Elementary is sort of the formative time when they when they really develop that identity as a learner, if that makes sense, like how dependent they are in the classroom. And of course, there's other factors that influence this as well. But I'm curious how modern classrooms has sort of allowed you to support students as they develop their identity as learners and their relation to learning

Laura Campbell  25:27  
and it it really just gives them ownership of their learning, like you're in charge and and that blows their mind in the beginning, like, you just want me to watch this video and then do the work, but you have to teach me. Like, no, I don't have to teach you. I taught you. It's in the video I just recorded it like, you don't need me.

Zach Diamond  25:47  
Yeah, I get that exact same line from I've gotten it from eighth and 12th graders. My line is always like, do I have to teach you, or do you have to learn? Like, which one is it? You know

Laura Campbell  25:59  
which one is it and and that learning culture, there's kind of two. When in elementary school, there's a so much emphasis, and at every level, build the relationships. Build the relationships. You know, do these things in the beginning to build those relationships, but there's not a lot of talk about building a culture around learning. It's building a culture of kindness and being helpful and being good listeners and all of those things, but a culture of like, Oh, we're all in this together, and seeing students get excited about, like, Ooh, I'm gonna go help so and so. And I say, that sounds great. Then I and then I don't have to, right? And, and they're like, what? And they get to do that. And then seeing students, there's this shift, and it's so cool when it starts to happen. And, and this year, it's like, right around now, last year, it happened a little earlier, but these kids, they're like, starting to realize that they're learning and they're excited and they want to learn. It shift from they have to learn to they want to learn and and they they're very much the culture is now like, talk about math. I don't have to worry about the group that's in the corner and that they're talking about what they're having for lunch, or they're talking about, you know, recess, or whatever they're talking about math, because that's that's that culture that has been built and in the beginning, I swear some of it stems from the tech side of things, like, there's always an expert on logging in, and it's not necessarily the kid who's really good at math. And so I'm like, Hey, go check with so. And so they can help you log in, and they're feeling proud that they can do that. And so there's all, all sorts of ways to build up that confidence. And, you know, there's all these science proves that people who feel like they're doing a good job and that are getting praise are more apt to do better. Kids aren't going to learn more when they're being told that they're doing things wrong and that, you know, like they do, need built up. And this makes it really easy. There's always something we actually end every day with a shout out. There's always something I can shout out about every student in the room look and I'm like, I don't know if I even answered your question. I can talk MCP all day. I love math, I love teaching, but yeah, just having them take ownership of their learning, and they're way more proud, like when they get something right, and they're like, I did it, they're way more excited and and let's be honest, previously, when I did the whole group and they did their little exit ticket and they handed it in, they didn't know if they got it right or not, because they could, I couldn't give immediate feedback to my 28 students while standing in front of the room. And so now I think that's helping too, that they're getting immediate. Like, yep, that's good. Good job.

Zach Diamond  29:12  
Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, I think I don't know if I had, like, a specific question in mind when I wrote this, but like, I guess what I'm sort of imagining is like I have when I taught middle school, and now even in high school as well, like I have students that come to come into sixth grade and are already so jaded on math, right? They've, they've always been bad at math, quote, unquote, in their words, right? They've, they've, they always, they've always hated math. They've always been bad at math. And to me, that means throughout all their, all of their elementary school, right? And so like, if kids are in a space where not only are they excited by math, they're also praised for being excited about math, like that builds a sort of like core identity that goes so far beyond any particular math concept, right? Any particular math knowledge,

Laura Campbell  30:01  
right? It's like the you can do hard things. Yeah, math might be hard for you, but look, you just got it. You can do math. It might not be as easy as other things for you, but you can do this. And that shift from sitting in a whole group lesson thinking, I'm not good at math and I'm going to wait till my teacher tells me what to write, versus I'm going to learn this material and I'm going to show my teacher and be really proud of it, like that's the big shift totally.

Zach Diamond  30:30  
And I think that modern classrooms allows that shift to happen, right? Because, you know, you mentioned the login expert, right? Or maybe you have a kid who's really good at a particular math concept, and they're your expert on that lesson. And like, if you were just doing full group essentially lectures, like, there'd be no space in that in that room, right for a kid to be the expert, because when would you send them to somebody else to help? Like you're the one doing the teaching? And so I think there's also an I wrote this down. There's an element of trust too. Like you mentioned that kids are almost like surprised that they can be the helper and that you can do something else, because it's like you're giving them a level of trust to be the teacher, and that, I think, also contributes to this sort of self image of a math learner, right? Even though they have to know that they don't know as much as their teacher does in terms of math content, right? You know, but like to be given the trust to go and be the teacher, even for a minute, like that builds that positive self image as a learner, you know?

Laura Campbell  31:31  
Yeah, just today, I had a student stand up and go, who needs help? We just stood up in the middle. I was like, listen, that's great. I'm glad you're wanting to help. But like they right? There's just so many more opportunities for kids to feel successful in this modern classroom setup than any other way that I've seen.

Zach Diamond  31:51  
Yeah, that's incredible. So tell me about the outcome. Like, how would you say, what has been the outcome of implementing MCP in your math class compared to before? 

Laura Campbell  32:01  
Yeah. So I this is actually only my second year implementing and, and last year we set up things a little different, so I don't have, like, student data outcomes, but I on a daily basis, just that that thing about you have to master it before you move to the next lesson. Because in previous years, like I said, they'd hand the exit ticket in and then, oh, this, these five kids didn't quite understand it. I need to pull them. But when am I pulling them to help? Because I'm lecturing again the next day, and now they're not handing things that are wrong, they are sticking with me or with their partner until they get it right. And so I'm seeing those outcomes on a daily basis change with my students, that they are sticking with it until they understand and then they move on. So that self paced piece is amazing.

Zach Diamond  33:03  
Yeah, no, I love that, because that goes to that mindset too, of like, if, if they didn't think that they could do it, they would just turn it in and get the bad grade right. But these are kids now who know that, if they stick with it, and know that if they continue to work with you, someone who can help them, they can actually succeed. That's amazing. 

Laura Campbell  33:22  
Yeah. And actually, at the beginning of the school year, I had one student who was like, Listen, I I already did it because she had a revision to make. She's like, I already did it. I don't want to fix it. I was like, well, that is actually not how this classroom works. You have to keep working until you get it. And they've never experienced that before that I keep working. They've experienced the that's the end of our class, you know, hand in what you were able to do, and tomorrow we're going to move on, because that's what my whole group pace looks like. And so that's a shift too. But I think that only builds confidence. Like, no, you're gonna keep going until you get it, because I know you're gonna get it, and now they know they're gonna get it. Yeah, that self paced is so important, and it's really affecting outcomes, and then also, like, teacher outcomes, which we've talked a little bit, but I know I chose to go back into the classroom. I was very excited, but, man, classroom teachers are the hardest working. Every job is hard in a school. It is, but classroom teachers, like my coaching, job, was way less work. I wasn't bringing as much work home with me. I wasn't putting in the number of hours that a classroom teacher puts in, and especially education, and especially elementary school. It's mostly women in the field, and we are also moms and we are also wives, and we are sisters and we are daughters and. And some of the little things that have helped me continue to stay in the classroom is just having some flexibility as a human in my job, like last year, this is like not quite related to student outcomes, but last year, I got a phone call my oldest son's school. He had a concussion, they needed me to go and and get him, and he was fine, you know, but I was able to take a phone call, and my kids were still doing math, and then they got whatever random person they could find to come cover my class until they could find a real person. And it didn't matter, my kids were still learning math like it didn't revolve around me, and that it's so much it's so much stress relief as a teacher to feel like, oh, I can go take care of my needs that are very important, and kids are still going to learn. And so the out, like for me, it's also going to keep me in this job. You know, maybe I'll hit my 30 years. I'm very close. Here I go, because it's, it's a hard job. And so having some flexibility, where I can take a breath and my kids are still learning, is like the best, 

Zach Diamond  36:21  
totally, 100% I mean, I'm glad that your son was okay, but that's still very scary, right, 

Laura Campbell  36:28  
right? Like when they finally did get a hold of me, I've actually ended up putting my principal as my emergency contact, because guess what? I'm not doing in the middle of math class, answering my phone. I'm not doing that. And so they, you know, couldn't get a hold of me, and when I finally got a hold, I called them back, and they're like, we have been calling you and I'm like, Well, I am teaching, you know, and that's when I when I tell stories like that. I don't want people to think, oh, I use modern classroom, because now I can sit over here and do whatever I want. Now I am free to do actual teaching with small groups and and and circulate around my classroom, but I'm still, you know, yeah, I'm not answering the phone, and so it's, it's, it's still a lot of work. You're still on the go the whole time, but you're also flexible, and even flexible with the kids time that you know a student is upset because something happened at home or something happened on the playground, or something happened here or there everywhere, like I can take time to tend to their emotional need, and everybody's still learning math. It doesn't matter what I'm doing, they're still learning math.

Zach Diamond  37:43  
Yeah, and what you mentioned about how you end up leaving and somebody else stepped in, and the kids were able to continue learning. And, and, yeah, I mean, like, like, I said, I teach block classes now. They're 85 minutes. They're very long. Sometimes I need, like, 30 Seconds to just like, sit down, you know, and not talk to any child, and just be a, you know, just wait a sec. And, like, I've told the story many times, I think, on the podcast, about how Kareem came to visit my modern classroom in the very first year that I was implementing, and he and I were just kind of standing there chatting for like, five minutes, 10 minutes, and the kids were just working. I was like, This is amazing. Like, I don't have to do anything. I mean, obviously that's, that's not accurate, right? I do have to do a lot of things, planning, to make to even get it to that point, right? But it's hard to, it's hard to say how this happens. But like, just in the I guess I like how you put the song and dance, of of like traditional teaching, right? In that song and dance, every minute, every second is accounted for, and you have to, sort of like, conduct the orchestra, right? And every note has to get played. But in a modern classroom, it's there's you're you're not accounting for every second that way. You know you don't have to micromanage your class. You don't have to be in control of everything that's happening all the time. And it just takes this stress off of everyone, the teacher and the students. 

Laura Campbell  39:09  
And you know, earlier, we were talking about like, I don't know how why this came to my mind, but just thinking about the shift between I'm teaching modern classroom style in my math class, and then the rest of the day I'm not, and I get so irritated the rest of the day at these little, tiny things. Like, I'm up teaching my heart out, and a kid's got his hand up, and I'm like, Yes, you have an answer. And he's like, can I go to the bathroom? Like all that stuff is, like, it's eliminated with modern classroom. And like, oh, I can't find the remote to my projector, and I'm walking all around the classroom because I don't know where I put it, and the kids are all watching me look for the remote. Like, all those little things don't happen in modern classroom. They. Just are always learning. It's like everybody's using their time more efficiently. Nobody's waiting for me, and I'm not waiting for anyone else.

Zach Diamond  40:09  
Yeah, no, it's amazing. And, and just this is the sustainability piece is so, yeah, it's so huge, right? And teaching is still hard. It doesn't mean that it makes it easy, but it just makes it less less stressful, you know, in a measurable way. So yeah, thank you for that. A common concern that we hear a lot about modern classrooms and elementary learners is that they're too young, they're not mature enough, they can't self pace, I think, like I was going to say a legitimate concern. I actually don't know if it's a legitimate concern, because we've had MCP. I've seen it in like, I haven't seen it personally, but, like, I've spoken to pre K teachers who have used MCP, and I guess, like, fourth graders are sort of at a level of basic literacy where they can read on an LMS. So maybe that's not a concern for you, but I guess my question is, what advice would you give to an elementary teacher who was concerned about using MCP with young learners, and what tips might you have for adapting the model that did come from high school classrooms originally to support young learners?

Laura Campbell  41:16  
Yeah, I have like, a million tips, but some of the big things to think about is, like number one, like, think about the kids you know in your personal life. Can they navigate a computer and a tablet? The answer is yes, they all can. And so you you can do this in your classroom. Like, no, they can navigate. They can that. I'm sure it will take longer for younger kids than, like, my fourth graders, but they can do it and and I know there's a concern from people about, like, I don't want them on a screen all day. My videos are 10 minutes, 1015, minutes of watching the lesson, and then the rest of the time they're working and they're working with peers, and they're, you know, on the carpet and they're over here and they're over there and whatever. But I think we're so afraid to get things wrong teachers. We want everything to be perfect, and the thought of releasing that control or just trying it, like, jump in and try. And I was fortunate to have an administration who's like, yeah, you want to try that. Go ahead, you know. And if they came in and it was not going well, I knew it wasn't going to be poorly reflected on me, it was going to be, oh, what can we do to help you? But I really think young learners, they can do things, they can do things, and we've just got to give them a chance and and raise the bar right, because, because they can, they can.

Zach Diamond  42:53  
Yeah, so I guess I wrote in my notes here, continuing this crusade to convince the naysayers that young learners can and do you thrive in a modern classroom? What challenges did you have in adapting this? I guess I'm gonna say high school model, but it's not a high school model. It's was initially that and so like, when you were taught the model, what didn't work for you and what did you then have to adapt to make it work for the young learners?

Laura Campbell  43:17  
I feel like it wasn't necessarily my kids. It was like, Oh, our district is short 1000 computers, and so not everybody has so now I have to shift or so, and so's login didn't work. Or, Oh, I got three new kids this week. They don't, you know, it's having to onboard the the new ones, like, oh, we just got it all ready. Like, it really, I didn't have, if I had a student who couldn't quite get the routine of login, go to this, you know, book that, bookmark this. Here's where you go. Here's your notes. I just gave them a partner, someone in the room can do it like I didn't really make it my problem. It's the community problem. Hey, Student B needs some help logging in. Who wants to help? Guess what? With little kids, they all, every single one of them, wants to help. They all want to help. And I, I think, like tips and tricks, all the things that you're already doing and all your other subjects are the same. Like, kids can't memorize their lunch number, and so you put it on a card. Same thing, like you just come up with a system that will make it work for them. Kids can't log in here, so you bookmarked it, or you did this like it. It doesn't feel different to me, because kids in every grade level are using technology and they're using computers. I think we just need to use all of those even like. As a mentor, when I have teachers, and they're like, Oh, I now that I'm free to do small groups. What do I do? How do I know who to pull What am I going to do in the group? And I always look at them and say, we do small groups and reading, right? And they're like, Yeah, same thing. It's the same. We just have to, we have to adapt it to math, you know, or adapt our I think teachers have those tools in their bag already. They just need someone to point it out to them.

Zach Diamond  45:29  
Yeah, totally. And it also, I think it goes back to that trial and error, right? Like, just try, see what happens, try something, and if it doesn't work, that's teaching. That's the that is your job, right? To try things out and then improve them. Sometimes it'll work the first time, and many times it will not. And, you know, I really think it's telling that none of the things that you said are necessarily unique to elementary school, you know, like, they're logistical, systemic issues like missing laptops or whatever, like, that's obviously, that's a problem at any level of school that you then have to work to adapt to. That's a challenge for sure, right? And we all figure out a way to overcome that challenge. But none of those were entirely unique to elementary learners

Laura Campbell  46:09  
and and the problems that lots of people or the hesitations that people have with modern classrooms are not I'm constantly like, Well, yeah, but they're going to be a problem when you're doing it the traditional way, like the student who doesn't do their work. What about the kids who don't do work self paced? I'm like, well, they weren't listening to you when you were teaching. So it's the same problem.

Zach Diamond  46:37  
Do they all work in the traditional model? Why would why would any of us do this? If they were all working, if it was working, we wouldn't be looking for innovation, you know? Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so Laura, what do you hope to see in the future? And what goals do you have? You mentioned, this is your second year implementing and so you're already in the sort of iteration phase. But this could also be personal goals, any professional goals, teaching goals, what do you have to see in the future?

Laura Campbell  47:04  
I feel like my kind of coaching background is coming out with this question, because my first thought is, I really want to keep teachers. I want, like my goal is to keep teachers, and this all teachers are being told. It feels like we're being told that we have to help every single type of child in every single way, and we have to be answering the parent questions, and we have to be receiving our field trip money, and we have to be teaching math, and we have to be helping the kids emotionally stabilize, and we have to be working together, and we have to go to this meeting, and we have to do this workshop like it's all the to do's and I, I'm so passionate about modern classrooms, because it works for everyone in the room. It's working for kids, and it works for teachers like it just makes everybody's focus on the teaching and the learning, and I and so like My future goal, I I want more teachers to be doing this, because I think it's good for kids, and because we need to keep our veteran teachers, and this is a way To help us, you know, do both of those things,

Zach Diamond  48:23  
yeah, again, that sustainability, right? The the the sustainability of teaching is, like, it feels like it hangs in the balance. Sometimes we are, like, on the edge, you know, it's a, it's a, I don't know. I can't think of what other metaphors where it's a tightrope, I don't know. Like, it's at any moment, I'm like, a few clicks away from looking for jobs on indeed. Like, what could I do, you know? And, yeah, like, modern classrooms is the thing that's pulling me back from the ledge, for sure. And, you know, like, I agree, I fully, I completely agree. I think that that's a fantastic thing to hope to see in the future is more teachers using modern classrooms because of the sustainability that it imparts into the into the profession, 100% Yeah, yeah. So if our listeners wanted to speak with you, someone who is so passionate about modern classrooms and modern classrooms in elementary school and beyond, I suppose, how good they connect with you. Laura,

Laura Campbell  49:21  
yeah. So any listeners who want to connect with me, I have a an email that I'm happy to answer questions and just talk all things modern classrooms. It's Laura dot Campbell at modern classrooms.org, and yeah, spread the word, because I'm all in, all in on this.

Zach Diamond  49:41  
I love that. And of course, I'll have that email in the show notes so folks can find it and connect with you if they'd like to. And thank you so much, Laura, this has been fantastic. I I was mentioning this before, you know, like, I don't teach elementary school, and so I'm always a little bit anxious about asking the right questions, and I i hope i. It okay, but I feel like you have really enlightened me, and it's actually really great to hear, in some ways, how similar you know, the challenges and also the benefits are across all levels of school. And I really appreciate that. So thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

Laura Campbell  50:15  
Yeah, no. Thank you for having me. I love talking MCP, and it is interesting to know that all the teachers are in the same boat, everywhere we are,

Zach Diamond  50:26  
we are, we are well. Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much for listening. Listeners. Remember you can always email us at podcast@modernclassrooms.org and you can find the links to topics and tools we discussed, as well as more info on this week's announcements and events in the show notes for this episode at podcast.modernclassrooms.org We'll have this episode's recap and transcript uploaded to the modern classrooms blog on Friday, so be sure to check there or check back in the show notes for this episode if you'd like to access those. And if you enjoy our podcast and it's been helpful in supporting you to create a blended, self paced, mastery based learning environment, we would love if you could leave a review that does help other folks find our podcast. And of course, you can always learn the essentials of our model if you want to go beyond the podcast through our free course at Learn.modernclassrooms.org and you can follow us on social media @modernclassproj, that's P, R, O, J, we are so appreciative of all the hard work you do for students and schools. Have a great week, and we'll be back next Sunday with another episode of the modern classrooms project podcast.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai