Zach Diamond  0:02  
Music. Welcome to the modern classrooms project podcast each week, we bring you discussions with educators on how they use blended, self paced and mastery based learning to better serve their students. We believe teachers learn best from each other, so this is our way of lifting up the voices of leaders and innovators in our community. This is the modern classrooms project podcast.

Toni Rose Deanon  0:28  
Hello and welcome to episode 202. Of the modern classrooms project podcast. My name is Toni Rose Deanon, they/them pronouns a designated hype person here at MCP, and I'm joined by Sean Aker, a career educator and educational leader focused on system alignment learning and human centered practices that create big changes. Welcome Sean,

Sean Aker  0:47  
thank you. It's so good to be here. Yeah, it's

Toni Rose Deanon  0:50  
so exciting to be in this space with you. And thank you so much for saying yes to the podcast. I know that you and I had connected in person, real life while we were in cosa multilinguals conference, and so we just like connected really easily, right, which is such a genuine connection. And listeners, I am training for a half marathon, and I think I've said that before, and Sean has actually helped me out with some of the running questions that I have. His pace is phenomenal, by the way. So if y'all have any running questions, I am volunteering Sean Aker as answer all running questions.

Sean Aker  1:34  
Practice, lot of practice, a

Toni Rose Deanon  1:36  
lot of and it's very impressive, too. So I aspire to be like you when I when I grow up. 

Sean Aker  1:42  
So you will be you have a long ways to go. You know, I'm older than I look perhaps, so you'll get there. You'll get there before I got there.

Toni Rose Deanon  1:50  
Fingers crossed, fingers crossed. We'll see. Um, okay, so before we get started, Sean, what is bringing you joy currently? 

Sean Aker  1:58  
Gosh, you know, I've taken a lot of time off the last couple of weeks, the end of the years here. And so I had some time that I needed to burn. And so I was able to take a couple days and head down to San Diego with my wife for a couple of days and visit friends. Awesome. This morning, I took my daughter's fishing, and, you know, just a local reservoir, and we didn't catch anything, and we still had a good time. And then we're gonna go to another pond this afternoon that's like on the other side of the freeway, and try our luck with some smaller fish. And yeah. And then my son, he's got this full time job working as a counselor, and he's learning a lot, but he worked three summers this custodian at the school starting after his eighth grade year, and so he needed to do, he really wanted to do something different. And he's learning a lot about students and children, you know, ages kindergarten through, I think it's like fourth grade. So, you know, his eyes are getting open, and they just went camping, and he made this video of biscuits and s'mores, and he put it together, like, this little mash up to music. And he's just so talented. And everybody's just thinking, like, oh my gosh, man, this kid is just, you know, he's got this interest and talent for, like, creating these videos, and it's just so cool to watch. So anyway, I just spending time with the family, just learning from them and being with them. Oh,

Toni Rose Deanon  3:24  
I love that so much. That definitely brought me joy listening to you talk about it and what kind of wait, what kind of fishing, because I just realized that there are different types of fishing. Because I'm not a fisher. I don't know much about fishing, but was it just like regular, regular fishing? 

Sean Aker  3:40  
Yeah, I guess I'm not like an expert. When I was younger, I did a lot of salmon and steelhead fishing, and then, you know, just what's easy with little kids is really like lake fishing or pond fishing. So, you know, use a bobber, or you use weights with with bait that floats, and so the weights go down. And, you know, if you want the the fish to be, you know, 16 inch. I don't even know what I'm talking about. I just read about it, and then I'm just like, that sounds let's try that. And like, we catch like, you know, two or three fish this summer. I mean, one summer we caught, like, a bunch of little ones, and you just throw them back. But I think altogether, we've caught like, a couple of trout or something. And anyway, I'm not that great. I'll talk about running. That's where I feel like I've got a little bit more expertise. Fishing is just fun. You put something on, throw it out, hopefully you spend time with family.

Toni Rose Deanon  4:31  
I love that. I know I used to go fishing when we were younger, and I just remember absolutely hating it, because I was not a patient kid, nor am I a patient adult. So like, fishing for me was not therapeutic, so I always am so impressed. And people are like, Oh yeah, I've gone fishing, and I was there for like, the whole morning or the afternoon, and it was just so great, and that just could not be me. So but thank you for entertaining my questions about fishing and so, okay, Sean, tell us more a little bit about who you are and how you. Started your MCP journey.

Sean Aker  5:01  
Gosh, okay, yeah, so let's see. I started my education career. I'm gonna, I will say back all the way in high school, I was recruited to start working at a local elementary school supporting reading instruction. So really, what that meant was I would just read with kids. They would either read to me or I would read to them. And I was a junior at the time, and then my senior year, I worked in the preschool that we had at our high school, and I did that for both semesters, and that was a lot of fun. And then after I graduated from from high school, went to college, and I actually ended up coaching baseball in the summers back at my high school for a couple years in a row. So, you know, working with older kids, just specifically coaching. And then kind of throughout that, I kept coaching off and on throughout college, and then when I graduated, I as I was graduating, I got a job as an instructional assistant for English language learners, or multilingual learners. At the time, I was an ELL assistant. That was my official title, and I did that for little over a year and a half, which was, it was fine, but I was making more money working at a bar than I was doing that, and being young, I went with the money, and so I kept working at the bar until I got married, and then right away we got pregnant, and I needed to go back to school. So I went back to school, got my masters, and I taught math, science or math health computers for for three years, became the principal at that school, same school, middle school, and I was principal there for four years. And during that time I was I also taught at least one class, because we just had a very small staff. So I taught a health class, and then got a job at a high school. I was a high school principal for a few years, and then I got a regional position working to reduce chronic absenteeism as a statewide initiative. And so I was one of initially six, and then became seven. So that's right, seven of us across the state that were working on this statewide initiative, and that was awesome. And then I moved into my current role, and that was about now five years ago, and I'm a I'm a coordinator of a program through another state initiative. It's actually a law House Bill, 3427 it's the Student Success Act. And so it's funded through the corporate activity tax. And there's mixed feelings about the corporate activity tax in Oregon, it taxes the big businesses, which is great, they can afford it, but it also taxes the small businesses. And so some folks, they really want to see a return on the investment, and so that's really important to me, is like really being transparent with what we're doing with these funds. And so we kind of built the program with that in mind, and and so as part of this program that I oversee. So getting to your question, we serve all 21 of our school districts, and they also have access to the corporate activity tax or the Student Success Act funds, actually half of that money, so it's 1.2 billion a year was the initial push. It's more than that now, because the the tax has actually been very lucrative for the state, and so districts get 50% of that money. There's 190 school districts in Oregon, and then there's some charter schools that are eligible for and some other programs that are eligible for funds, but they get that money directly. In order to get that money, they have to write a plan. It's, it's not competitive, it's it's there, it's that districts or that programs dollars. But they have to write a plan that attends to two high level goals of the Student Success Act, which is essentially increasing academic outcomes for historically underserved and addressing mental health and behavior needs of students. Those are the two big goals, and so the key performance indicators that every district in the state has to address is fifth year Completer, four year graduation rate, regular attendance, ninth grade on track and third grade reading. And so there's a lot of intersection in there. And so this is kind of long, but it's really good context for getting to how does MCP fit into this, or where does my journey begin there? So each district, they have to do community engagement, their students, their staff, their families, community partners, really leaning into who like identifying who is not at the table or who has not informed their decisions, and really seeking input. From those, from those groups, who maybe are typically underserved or who have not been elevated, whose perspectives have not been elevated. And then they they create a plan that's supposed to drive those five metrics and hit, you know, increasing outcomes for historically underserved and the mental health and behavior needs. You've got 21 districts. They all have a different local context. And some of our districts are large enough that you've got multiple fiefdoms, right? You've got these little pockets across the district that you know what they want isn't, doesn't. It's not exactly what the whole picture of the district might look like. And so trying to break that apart and meet the needs of of 21 districts, and having a comprehensive plan that meets the needs of 21 districts has been a challenge. And so we have our own community groups and educators that continually engage in the services and programs that we provide. And there's clear things that have come up where we can find some intersection. So obviously, mental health and behavior, we've got one of our strategies focuses on providing services and training to increase educator capacity to support mental health and behavior, social emotional learning ties real close into that, but we keep it slightly separately because it's such a broad it's just such a broad scope. When you talk about social, emotional learning, and then instruction and distance learning was the original because it was kind of pandemic time, and we're we've modified that a little bit. We've made an adjustment there to call it teaching, learning and assessment. And so that's really focused on instructional practices. And then the two other main pieces are, this is going to sound weird because it's like, it's not that big of a deal, but it's a huge deal. But equity and really, that's like a through line for all of our programs. We're constantly applying an equity lens in our decision making, or trying to do our best and continuing to improve in applying an equity lens in our decision making and resource distribution and allocation, and then just a program capacity like, what does our program have? What do the people that work in on our team? What do they need so that they can do their best to serve this broad array of needs? So you got these five strategies, and underneath each one of these strategies is a list of programs, right? So you can guess modern classrooms, project falls under teaching and learning and instruction, right? So one of the hats I wear is obviously program coordinator. I have to work with my team and identify where, who's going to kind of navigate these programs and what will, let's say, a partner like modern classrooms project, what's their what's their role in supporting our network, and what's our role in supporting our network with modern classrooms project? I mean, in hats off to modern classrooms project, the way that it is lined out, it's, for me, it's been a very easy, it's not a heavy lift for me to engage with Michael, hacker Ryan. Hacker Ryan. And it's been, you know, our lead, it was Christine barfords before that. And then Avery, you know, I've spent a lot of time on calls with Avery as well. And so it's just really easy because they, you all have the data, and you all have the capacity for the mentorship, which is so greatly needed, and you've got the program outline. So what do I do? I talk it up to our constituents, and I present some of that data that return on investment. I say this is what's happening for those folks who are engaging in it. And so my journey started about three years and this is like, I wish I had could see a timer on this, because I know this is a really long answer. So thank you everyone for being patient as I get through this, but we my role was listen and learn about modern classrooms. Project, identify who is engaging, how they're engaging, identify different needs and how this might fit into those needs, and plug it accordingly. So plug it, plug it broadly. Maybe make some direct contacts and say, Hey, here's an opportunity. And so direct contacts could be at a superintendent level, Director of Teaching and Learning, a building principal, or even directly to teachers and some of those folks I know. And so then just really understanding the program, the approach, the outcomes, how it intersects with what is already happening, and making it really tangible. And then with we got a really awesome donation from private source funder who was able to open up a $500 stipend for folks who completed the full the full training. And so I hope that clarifies my role. Do you have any questions on what I just said? Like, did I make that connection there? No,

Toni Rose Deanon  14:48  
yeah, no, that was beautifully done, Sean, actually. Like, I knew you were cool, but now I know that you're really cool.

Sean Aker  14:58  
Very kind of you to say.

Toni Rose Deanon  14:59  
Yeah, yeah, you have, like, so many different experiences, right? And I just love how you started just being in high school all the way up to where you are now. And just to kind of give that background information of like, how you make the moves that you do, right? Keeping in mind the equity lens, keeping in mind all of the past experiences that you've had, and really just trying to be intentional with how you move in spaces. And I think, like, I kind of gathered that when I first met you. So like, I really, like, appreciate that. So thank you for sharing your story, because I don't think I've ever heard that. That was my first time hearing it. So yeah, no, thank you. Like, I just knew that you'd always advocated for our program, and I knew that you could talk it up and you knew exactly like, the benefits of it. And so for me, I was just like, oh, like, Sean really got into researching modern classroom and how it could impact, you know, the state, honestly and like, just people that you work with. And so understanding your experience just really made it more like it just made it more clear for me to be like, okay, like, this all makes sense now. So thank you again for sharing that. It was, it was, it was beautifully done, like I said, and and so I know that you're also, like, an avid listener of the podcast, which is so exciting. And so you're, you know, like you and I text every now and then, and you're just like, oh my gosh, this is a great idea. And, like, I really appreciated this about the podcast episode. I love that for me as someone who's hosting this and creating and planning this, like, I love those kind of conversations about the things that we're creating for you, all right, so I really appreciate that. And I know that you had mentioned about you had mentioned something about appreciative inquiry, and those were two words, like, a phrase that I've never heard of, and I'm intrigued. And so for our listeners, aka also me, who don't know what that is, share with us that definition what, what is appreciative inquiry. I feel like I could kind of figure it out, but I'd love to hear from your perspective. 

Sean Aker  16:55  
Sure, yeah, thanks. And really, and I don't know if we can, you know, if this gets thrown back in there, but I probably need to give a little bit more credit where credit is due. So our Director of School Improvement services, Gretchen Bruner, she was the one who was in conversation initially with modern classrooms and Christine bar Fords and a couple of our other folks, like we have a mark Siegel is, I can't remember his title, but he's at a private school in our region, and he is really big on proficiency based learning and mastery learning, and so he was a big advocate as well. And so with that partnership with that donor that I mentioned, and Gretchen was plugged in, Gretchen initialized it, and then I eventually just kind of took the reins as as as her role shifted and minded. So I just want to make sure I clear that so but appreciative inquiry. So Appreciative Inquiry is I actually looked up some definitions. I'm like, how you know, I don't I'm not always into, like, textbook definition of things. So I think, from my perspective, when I think about Appreciative Inquiry, I think about how to avoid telling people what to do, really empowering others to own what they are doing, what they have done. That's the most important thing, right? It doesn't if, and especially as a leader, when I tell people what to do now, I'm responsible. I'm more responsible. I hold more responsibility than another person, because I'm saying this is what you have to do, and that it's not it doesn't feel good to be on the receiving end of that. It doesn't feel good because now it's like micromanaging, and nobody like I think, I think most effective leaders I know, they don't like to micromanage, and I think the most successful people I know that have either worked with me or that I've supervised they are they really want to understand what impact they're having, and they don't always get the questions they need to reflect and have that self awareness so appreciative inquiry. It empowers people through questions that are that are open ended, that cause reflection and that increase self awareness, so that a person can really understand the true impact they're having, because our intent often is different than our impact and and so appreciative inquiry just is a, it's a it's a way to navigate a relationship. And there's been times when it's like, I've turned some pretty tough relationships into very solid relationships by being inquisitive. And I think the appreciative part, which I really need to mention is, is number one, people are really putting a lot of time and effort. In most cases, they're really trying hard. So like, I can always appreciate somebody, man, you are working so hard at this. Like Tony rose, you are working hard at this. I was paying attention to you, paying attention to me just a minute ago, and thinking like Tony Rose is really listening, and then he reflected. And I'm like, I never said those things to Tony and she just like, you know, did a really good job of reflecting back, right? I appreciate. Eight how much you listened in that scenario? You know, that had a really good impact on me, just in the short conversation. Now you scale that, and you do that with multiple people, and you know, I'm still honing my skills a lot of Elena Aguilar, and bright mornings I listen to that podcast too. She's the bomb. If people aren't a friend of the podcast, they probably need to become a friend of that podcast as well. But, you know, she's, she's got some really specific practices and ways of of there's some more. I'll say in the podcast as we go on. She talks a lot about ways of being and ways of doing, and so I will talk about that a little bit, but so that that's my definition. I suppose

Toni Rose Deanon  20:41  
I know I love that so much, it took every ounce of my body not to interrupt you, to celebrate all the things that you were talking about. So kudos to me. Actually, I'm celebrating the fact I did not interrupt you. And two thumbs up, right? And so a couple of things, right? When you said you're not really that you know all about the textbook definition, I just kind of chuckled in my head, because, as a non native speaker, I hate textbook definitions because they never make sense. Like if I were to look something up because I didn't know a word, and then the definition didn't make any sense at all. So I was like, Okay, this is completely useless. I hate it. So just, I just kind of chuckled when you said, let me phrase this in a way that people understand, and I know that, like, here we are, share your appreciations, right? Like, I really appreciated that for my brain to just kind of be validated, the fact that, like, I also don't like textbook definitions, because, if anything, they just create more barriers than help. 

Sean Aker  21:36  
Yeah, even like saying, like, the way that I'm hearing you say, that makes me think, like, oh my gosh, I interpreted the definition. I interpreted the way that I enact Appreciative Inquiry, the way I've seen it, the way I've experienced it, two ways, but only from my perspective, right? Like, if you have some of my colleagues, they might say, yeah, that's how he does it, but they might have a different explanation for it, right? So anyway, sorry, thanks for letting me chime in there.

Toni Rose Deanon  22:05  
No, no, no. That was actually really great too, because, again, just as a reminder that, like, people have different perspectives, right? And that's okay, like we are going to love and nurture and care and accept the way that people are and still continue to have that inquisitive mindset, right? Like you're saying, like, approaching relationships and conversations with curiosity and empathy so that we can continue having these challenging conversations, or even just, like, deepen the cut the connections that we already have with each other, right? And, and I also, like, really love this whole thing of, like, not telling people what to do, like, who? When I tell you, I hate it, when people tell me what to do, I make sure to not do exactly what you told me not to do, right? Like, do like, I just, I just hate it. I'm like, How are you like, I too know. I'm coming in with my experiences. I'm coming in with my knowledge, and it just creates this, like, it creates a wall for me, right? Of like, this is how you got to do it, and this is, you know, like, these are the things that you have to do. And it's like, Hold on, wait a minute, I don't have to do anything. And so just like naming the fact that, like, maybe we can continue nurturing those, those relationships before we start like throwing ideas or like mandating things, right? Because I know that this is something that often. You know, when I was in the classroom, we were always mandated to do things, and I absolutely hated it. So completely agree with the whole thing.

Sean Aker  23:34  
And it's like, I mean, now you're just making me reflect even more. It's like, sometimes we are told, we are told what to do, but in terms of, like, objectively meet the goal, right? Like we have a goal to meet, but when it gets, when it gets really challenging from both ends, is when we're told how to do it, which I heard you mention, nobody wants to be told how to do it. That's really where that micromanaging comes in. That's where that, you know, that disrepair and relationship. I mean, you can really, you can really break a relationship that way by saying, like, Hey, do it this way. And I mean, it's hard. It's hard for some folks who have had a lot of success when they've done things a certain way, to not say, you know, this is, this is how I want you to do it, versus providing an example. Say, you know, if you need some examples of successful ways that something's been done, I can provide some. You let me know right now, it's just like the offer is there. I've offered it to you, but I'm still empowering you to do whatever it is that you need. You know, we this is the goal. This is what we're working for. But I want, I know that you can do it. You know that's the reason I'm at that's the reason I'm working with you. I've asked you or have had this conversation, because I know you can do it, right? You let me know if you need some help, I might be able to provide other examples. And I even that's not a guarantee,

Toni Rose Deanon  24:56  
yeah. And I'm even thinking too, like this trickles down to. How we as educators navigate our relationships with our students, right? Like, if school leaders are like, mandating things, you have to do it this way. You have to do it right now. You have to do it in, you know, whatever way that's that and with no understanding, right? Like the teachers just have no idea why we're doing this thing. It doesn't make any sense. There's no conversation. It's just being mandated that kind of trickles down into the classrooms too, right? Like, of, of teachers being like, you just have to do this. This is mandated. You got to do it. Because I said so and so it's just like, you know, it's just like a trickle down thing, and so much. I mean, we, gosh, we could honestly talk about this, this thing the whole entire time. We have so many things to talk about, though, so let's just put a pin on that, because I know, I'm sure we'll, we'll come back to it. I do love the concept of like, making it to where, like, empowering people, to to cut like, to to be more aware of like, the way they're, they're, they're showing up, right? Being more self aware, being reflective. Like, these are life skills that I think we often really struggle with, and I really like, again, the whole trusting that individual or the human beings or the team, of just being like, you know, what y'all got this, you know, do it however, like you think is gonna be the best way to do it for the people that you serve. Okay? So we'll get back to that. And I love Elena Aguilar, as everyone knows bright morning is my jam all day, every day.

Zach Diamond  26:27  
Hey there, listeners. This is Zach. Just want to remind you of some exciting updates for the podcast. Moving forward, we are now publishing this podcast on YouTube so you can listen there as well. We also have a Tiktok account. It's at modern class proj, P, R, O, J, like all our other social media where we answer questions, share resources and also share research in bite sized videos, you know, TikTok stuff. So definitely check those out. I will have links for those in the show notes for you. And definitely check out the YouTube. We have a whole playlist set up just for the podcast. We'll be sharing the full episodes as audio and also, hopefully some shorts with video coming up, clips of the recordings for you all to check out as well. So check out those links in the show notes, and now let's get back into it with Toni Rose and Sean.

Toni Rose Deanon  27:17  
Okay, so you mentioned like getting excited about understanding systems right through the appreciative inquiry that we just talked about. So can you explain how this approach can help bridge the gap between early learning, potentially early focusing on individual development and system alignment, which seems a little bit more macro? 

Sean Aker  27:33  
Yeah,  yeah. I mean, that's such a great question, because, again, you have to understand the context. And I think ultimately, regardless of the situation, my, my, my opinion is we always have to be looking at an assets based approach, what is already in place, what is already working. Who, who are we serving, and who is achieving right? Who is engaged in the decision making. That's a great place to start, because as we're looking at the assets, we might identify barriers or or gaps in in what we're actually trying to accomplish. It, you know, it's, I think part of the it's, I've seen a few different equity lenses, and I know it's part of the Oregon equity lens is, you know, what are the assets, or what are the actually, I'm not sure if it's the exact Oregon equity lens, but I've seen it in equity lenses that, you know, it talks about, like, what is working and who is it working for? And so when we talk about. So for me, my perspective, I'm thinking about early learning, and I'm thinking about these intersections on and you mentioned the macro level, well, there's a big piece of macro data, which is attendance, right? We can identify a school's attendance rate or a grade level's attendance rate or even a class attendance rate. And those are, those can be indicators, but when you've got an attendance rate, you're really, you're only you're referencing there. You're referencing days. It's a math problem. It's what are the total number of days that could have been attended by all students altogether, and what are the total number of days that were attended, that's your numerator. And so then you have like, oh, well, we've got a 94% attendance rate. And okay, well, that sounds good pat on the back. But like, let's look at like, how many regular attenders do we have attending 90% or more days, and how many chronic absentees do we have attending less than 90% of days or missing 10% or more? You know, because now you might have a 94% attender rate. And I used to have a math problem that I could quickly describe on this, but I don't even want to go there, because I'll probably mess it up. But you could, you could have a 94% attendance rate, and you could still have. Have a subset of chronic absentees that they're not attending regularly. So when you think like this macro level, you think, okay, so a school district might have like a 70% regular attender rate, which means 30% of all the students across the district are chronic absentees. Well, those are people, each one of everyone that makes up that 30% so it's, let's say it's 1000 schools in the district, or 10,000 schools, 1000 students in the district, or 10,000 students in the district. If 30% are chronic absentees, that's 300 or that's 3000 right? Let's distribute those numbers across our schools, across our personnel if we take it down to a building level, most elementary schools that I know are somewhere between like 304 100 elementary students in general. I mean, that's, that's a very broad range, but so we got an elementary school of 400 students, if they're if they've got 30% chronic absentees at 400 students, you got 120 kids. That's 120 kids across that so how many kids of that 120 where are they? What grade levels are they in? What are some other common traits that we have behind some of these kids. Is it, you know? Is it gender? Is it racial identity, right? Is it other federal program, right? Like, like, what do we know about these kids? So you take this macro information, like attendance, and you break it down to identify the kids, and then you and then you start asking more questions like, Who are these kids connected to? What do we know about their families? Or, what are do? Like, do we have relationships with these families? And then there's a great program called the parent teacher home visit project out of California. And there, I mean, we're our our program is going to be partnering with them a little bit more specifically next year. But you know their approach on parent teacher home visit project is not sending someone to the home to tell the person about or tell the family about all of the resources. Their approach is clear. Invite a parent to engage with you so that you can learn about them, their situation, their hopes and dreams for their kids. Like if we do that on those smaller levels, where we have clear evidence through the data that students are being underserved, that needs are not being met, that there are needs that exist, that we haven't identified yet, if we can do that on the micro level, then we can start bridging these gaps with some of the other performance data, like reading. I met a kid not too long ago, and now I granted I'm I feel very, very privileged to be where I'm at with my with my career, with my family, with my spouse, with my kids, my mom always took me to the library, but I was never really into it. I just went because she took me. But apparently that's what some moms do, but I never really thought anything of it. My wife started taking our kids to the library. Going to the library has just always been a thing. I was out of school the other day. We were short staffed on one of our programs, and so I was filling in, and this kid was really into the books on the shelf, and he's asking me if I've read books, and I'm asking him if he's read books. And I said, No, but I bet you give the library. He's like, I've never been to the library, and this is a fifth grader, and, like, I just completely took that for granted. But I mean, and this is a very small example, but if we don't know that kids haven't even been to a library, what else don't we know about some of these students we're serving, and how can we not that we need to go solve all these problems and present solutions. We can't just go out with a solution focus, but if we can really go out and inquire about what they like to do. What brings them joy? The first question you ask, what brings you joy? What do you like to do? And how can we bridge these gaps? How can we make school more meaningful for each of those students? And it's not the administrator, and it's not the Student Success Coach or the attendance advocate or the superintendent. It's whoever in the district is going to have the best, closest relationship, the most interactions with that kit. It could be an instructional assistant, it could it's more likely, a teacher. And you know, then we got to find a way to support our our staff in making these meaningful connections. So it's empowering. How do we empower from the top down, or how do we invite ideas from the bottom up? Ways to build these relationships, and where do those meet? Because when we have strong relationships and we have a better desire to get into school, we've got, you know, we will end up with better performance. And we've seen that in some of the schools that we've served, where they've made some some strategic changes, opened up the doors for some better pathways for two way authentic communication. More messaging going out, better messaging in where language needs, where there's gaps in meeting language needs, and you know, that means underserved I think I was reading the language on the MCP, on the MCP language, and it was like, you know, it's like, underserved populations. I can't remember. I'd have to pull it up again. But it's like, where aren't we meeting the needs of our parents with that are experienced, that are limited English proficient. Anyway, okay, that was a big tangent, but so that's kind of where those intersections meet for me.

Toni Rose Deanon  35:57  
Yeah, no. I mean, I took lots of notes. Of course, I think the biggest thing that popped up for me was just the focus on relationships, right? And something that also came up for me is that it's relationships and not assumptions, right? When you were thinking about like, what do we know about our caregivers, our families, our parents, right? Instead of saying, like, what do we think we know? It's like, no, what do we know? So I think I also just want to always just say, like, it's really quick for us to make assumptions. It's really quick for us to for our biases to show up. And that's why relationships are so important, to really take a step back and actually get to know the person holistically as a human being and and I really love, love, love the reminder to Sean that, like, we don't always have to go in there with a solution focused mindset, right? Like, I think as I continue to learn how to be an active listener, I am learning that I don't have to fix people's problems. I can just listen. So I don't have to have a solution every single time. I can just be a listener. I can be a sounding board. I can just be someone that they can, you know, reflect with. And this is why I always say like a thought partner, right? And so I really love this whole thing, just a reminder that, like, we don't have to go in with solutions, we can just go in there and have a conversation, because I think sometimes we don't do that. We always have some kind of, like purpose behind the conversation, besides, like, having a genuine connection. So I really like that reminder. Yeah,

Sean Aker  37:39  
I was just gonna add one more thing. I mean, you know, I'm speaking about parents, but I'm thinking also, like, sphere of influence, right? I'm speaking with my administrator hat on Right, right? And even in my program right now, I'm an administrator. I have folks that work on our team that serve educators directly, and those educators serve students and families, right? So I'm like, three or four spheres removed from the students I'm serving, right? Yeah, and when I think about that, it's not about me, it's about me elevating the idea of relationships, but also I have to practice relationships with the people I'm serving directly. I need to know those folks, and that's been a big journey for me over the last couple of years is really like understanding, like I don't know these people, like I should know them, they don't know me. And so building that relationship authentically, so that they know who they see my hopes and dreams, not just like this vision, because I'm the I'm in charge, or something like that, you know, and so that's been that's been helpful, but that trickles down, just like what you said before. That trickles down, you know, it's yes. I want them to have relationships with students and families, and I want to have relationships with students and families, but I also need to have relationship with the people I support, because that's my direct influence, is those people I support, 

Toni Rose Deanon  39:00  
yes, yes, and yes. And this is why community is so important, right? Like, to be able to lean in and lean on the community, and community could be all stakeholders, if that's what we want to call it. But like, essentially, like, who's all part of the learning process, and that's the community, right? Like, really elevating and supporting community as much as we can. And I know I was thinking to you, know, you were saying, like, when we think about, we want to serve every single student, right? And like, trying to figure out who can have those better connections with specific students, or with with families and caregivers. And really, just thinking about, it doesn't have to be me, right? Doesn't have to be me. It doesn't have to be an AP. It doesn't have to be the sped teacher. It doesn't have to be like any of that. And this is why I think time and time again, I always say, like there's a trusted like a trusted adult. Ask your student who the trusted adult is, right? And then you'll figure out, like, who they actually like, who they respect, who they vibe with, who they love to go to and just like, be themselves. Yes. And so, yeah. And, like you said, creating and providing that space and capacity for teachers to create these relationships as as we need to, right? And so, okay, great, great, great, great. So, okay, so in the in your exploration of opportunities, what kind of system alignment are you most interested in achieving when it comes to something like modern classrooms, is it alignment with specific goals, human values, or like something else entirely? I'm so curious. 

Sean Aker  40:31  
Like to me, it's just about empowering people. I mean, it's just about empowering people. It's about empowering kids to really understand my son as a sophomore, he I was, I picked him up from school one day. I'm driving him home. This is, like, maybe a week into school. So he's gone through all the syllabus they've talked about, all the syllabi, you know? He's talked about the grading systems and whatnot in all his classes and and he just says, Dad, you know, I I think that students should be graded on how much they learn. That's, that's what I think. Like, what do I know now and what do I know at the end, you know, that should be on graded. And, you know, we had a short conversation about that, but in the end, I'm like, I'm trying to encourage him. You should go talk to your assistant principal about that. You know someone that who he had a very strong relationship with. You need to go talk that, because if you're if one of your administrators hears a student say that, and you have influence over that person, and you've got other folks in your camp, other students in your camp, and there's some agreement around that conversation that could be a catalyst for change, which I know your district is working on anyway. And it was, it was really cool to hear him say that it's been, you know, now it's been through two years since that, right? He's going to be a senior next year, and, you know, I haven't seen that type of system change yet, right? So that's that's a little disheartening to me. It takes a long time. Tom guskey, are you familiar with Tom guskey? He is all about proficiency grading. Mastery grading, really, really empowering students. He, I can't remember if he, if he did a show with John Hattie. John Hattie is visible learning. But you know, you talk about, like, what are the influences on, on student outcomes? And like, student agency is one of the is like, is one of the biggest. I can't remember where it falls on the list. It's been a while since I really got dug into that. But when you talk about student 80 agency, you know clarity on on what it is I need to do to be successful, like he's talking about students, but I'm I don't serve students directly. I serve people who, who serve students. Do, is it clear enough for them what it should look like, and do they have the autonomy to set that up collegially? I think I can't remember where I put it in when I was like, you know, reviewing the notes and stuff. So I'm just going to enter. I'm just going to insert it here. I mentioned before about ways of being in ways of doing. So what do I hope? I hope that people can change their ways, their ways of being, and they can, which means, I think understanding the impact they're actually having, and then, okay, that's not my desired impact, so I need to change the way I'm being, which might be my beliefs about students, my beliefs about grading, my beliefs about the approach to student learning, my beliefs about leaning into some of the research practices. And if I can change those, those beliefs and my way of being now, I can do things differently, and that's when okay, my mindset is open to learning about what I'm actually what's actually happening, and now I'm going to do something different because of it and ways of being and ways of doing. When I the first time I heard it, I'll just the first time I heard it, I was just like, This sounds like nonsense, nonsense, right? But the person who was saying it, I totally trusted and I was like, All right, if that person, if that person is saying this, and that other person is saying this, and I trust them and I know what they're saying, I need to find out what that actually means. Again, my perspective, bringing into this conversation here ways of being and doing for some, is not tangible, because we don't get that's not a formal doctrine in our ed programs and our ed prep programs, of ways of being in ways of doing. You know, take a class on ways of being in ways of doing. You take a class on pedagogy, right? You take a class on instructional best practice, practice. This practice, practice. What does practice mean? Practice is what I do every day. Practice is what I do over and over and over again. That gets me a result. If I'm serving somebody directly and I'm getting results that I don't want, I have to change my practice. It's imperative that I change my practice. Therefore, if I'm open to that, I am changing my way of being because I understand something about myself differently. Therefore I'm changing what I'm doing. I'm changing my practice. If one person changes their practice, and you're working with a group, well, you're working with a classroom, and the way that I change my practice is resulting in a different way that my class does something. Now I'm changing my classroom procedure. So now I've got to change I've learned something new. I've developed a new skill. I've got to change to my practice. I'm changing my practice. It's led to a different procedure. I'm working with my colleagues who are doing something very similar or trying to accomplish a similar goal. I'm a math teacher, I'm a social studies teacher, I'm an English teacher, whatever. I'm changing the ways that I'm that I'm being and doing. My practice is changing. My procedure is changing now. I'm growing this and with my colleagues, we're all changing our practice, and we're all changing a procedure. We find out that this procedure that we've changed is so impactful. It is serving those that we thought we couldn't serve it is serving those we used to blame for not being successful. Well, they aren't this, they aren't that. Well, they can't this, they can't that. No, no, we aren't doing something. We change what we're doing. Our procedure is different, and because that procedure works so well, now we actually start writing it down, and it's in our Student Handbook, it's in our staff handbook. It's in our district policy, right? We're doing things different. It's now a policy because we're seeing the impact on student outcomes. So as the student outcome is a result of changes to practice, procedure and policy, and it happens all throughout. It's not like, it's not like, if we don't change policy, we don't get student outcomes, no, if we don't change practice, if we don't develop new procedures, if we're not open to changing policy, then we won't see the consistent outcomes that we want to see, the change the student outcomes. And so that, to me, is that ways of being, and that is from a program like ours. I'm promoting modern classrooms project because I know that this changes practice. I know that this leads to better procedures. I know that this leads to more student agency, which creates better student outcomes, right? And if we have enough teachers that start doing this, and this is like, Hey, if you're going to teach math at this school, we teach math with the modern classrooms project approach, or call it what you want, but the approach has been changed, and it's going to be written down within our math department. Now is a policy within our math department that we do it like this, because we've seen the impact on our historically underserved populations. We've seen the growth and achievement super long winded, but I mean, like that, it's one person, it's one person, right? It's one person. And you get a lot of one peoples, and we got, you know, I feel so blessed. We end up, you know, 2000 people engaged in our program just in this last year. I think it's around 2000 that might be a slight exaggeration. Maybe it's like 1800 or something like that, but somewhere around there, like unique educators engaged in the programs and services that we are offering through our program, because we listen and learn and we're trying to meet their needs, and that's a lot that could be a lot of impact, if one educator is impacting 30 or 50 or 100 students,

Toni Rose Deanon  48:40  
listeners, can't see this, but I'm just like dancing and nodding and like doing all the things because, I mean, I don't have anything else to say except, like, say it louder to the for the people in the back, like, I don't know what else to say except that, right? I think, I think one of the things that pop up for me is that change, change is scary, right? Like, for folks of like, ways of being in ways of doing, like, if this is how I've shown up, and then you mean to tell me that actually, never mind. I'm changing, and I have to change my whole belief system. I have to change, you know, all of this, like, that's there's a lot of shame, there's a lot of anger that comes with that. And I think that's why a lot of the times, like the ed prep programs, don't talk about these skills that we need to have, as far as, like, you know what we need to think about our ways of being and our ways of doing. And I just, I don't know, this is so great. That was just so great Sean. And when I was thinking about the ed prep programs, like when I was when I went to UGA for my my bachelor's in middle school education, I just remember I felt like it was an over preparation, but then when I got into the classroom, it was actually like, nothing that I learned actually like made any sense, because we would spend hours and hours and hours on one lesson plan. In reality, that's not the case at all. Like, we don't have hours and hours and hours to do one lesson, like, but that was, like, what they instilled in us. And I just think that that was so ridiculous. Like, why anyway, so that was like, my Ed Prep Program. I mean, shout out. Go Dawgs, I guess.

Sean Aker  50:16  
Question for you, question for you, yeah, during your ed prep program, what was your perspective, right? Like, what was your lived experience going through your ed prep program? Because I feel very similar to you. I was like, what did I learn in my Ed Prep Program? But actually, I have to, like, reflect on myself, because I think I don't even know what I was hoping to learn. I just had a goal of being a teacher, right? I don't know what I was open to learning. I just I had an experience of being a student in schools, right, not knowing what was on the backside of what a teacher was really working on or trying to achieve. I didn't know my teacher's goals. I just know the teacher got up there and gave me homework and then graded my homework, right?

Toni Rose Deanon  51:03  
I think, I think, like, for me, it was, it was definite, because it was, it was middle school English, right? And so we, we read a lot of YA books and middle grades books, and I absolutely love that. So it was so much fun that part. I think it was also just, like, really frustrating, because I got to be really creative with the things that I was coming up with, as far as like, Oh, this is what I want to teach. But in reality, like, there were just so many boundaries and so many like, limitations as to how I how much I could be creative, and like, the autonomy I didn't really have that. And so it was just kind of like a facade for me, of like, wait, I had all the autonomy to be creative in my ed prep program, but then going into schools like public schools and public charter schools and independent schools, I'm like, Oh, they do it this way, and I can't do it actually the way that I had intended or wanted to. And it's it's actually really interesting too, because one of my professors, who I absolutely adored, one of the things that really stuck with me was, you know, she was like, you're going to work with middle school kids. So I highly recommend that you exercise, because they have a lot of energy, and you need to be able to keep up with them. And that was, like, the one thing that stuck with me this entire time is like, Oh, I gotta exercise. I have to exercise. Have to be able to keep up with them, you know, and and that's actually been super helpful. So I couldn't tell you, like, the theory or the pedagogy that I learned from from this, this professor. But I could tell you, Okay, you're right, like I do, and then, you know, should always say too, like, don't take anything personally. Middle schoolers are brutal. And I was like, Okay, good to know. I've got to have thick skin. Don't take anything personally. So I feel like those are life skills that I definitely needed to hear, at least, like, advice anyway, so yeah, but yeah, the whole ways of being in ways of doing. Thank you so much for naming that, and I will put that in the show notes as well. For folks who want to look into that, definitely check out bright morning. They have great resources about this as well. And it really does take one teacher, right? And for me, I'm always talking about moving pebbles, and those pebbles will make huge changes, even though they're so tiny, right? Like the whole ripple effect, right? And something that we something that I chuckle about all the time too, is like with modern classrooms, we, our teachers do the marketing for us, because they talk about it, right? They talk about it so well, so much, and they're so eager to share all the things that they're learning. And just the amount of times that I've heard that like, oh, this rejuvenated my teaching career. This made me want to stay for many more years, because we have, you know, the opportunity to really get to know our students, to really differentiate personalized learning, and to really focus on the things that are important and then not focus on the things that are not important, right? And so I really like that aspect of our our model as well. Okay, so, Sean, I'm gonna go off script for a little bit, because we were talking about, we were talking about The Checklist Manifesto, which is a book that you recommended for me to read, and I did, but like, I read, like the Blinkist part of it, so it's kind of like the Cliff Notes summary version, or the top, the top three things you should know. And it really stuck out to me, because I love checklists. But the difference is that I actually do to do lists and not checklists. And one of the things that they talk about in this book is really creating an intentional checklist where it had it, where everything, the procedure itself, you're talking about, the procedure right, is transparent, so that folks, your teams, can feel successful. They are not confused, and they're not making mistakes that could have been prevented. And so with these checklists to make it more transparent, because I think sometimes in education, we're not transparent, and it like irks my soul.

Sean Aker  54:47  
If you're not transparent, people will write their own stories, right, right? And there is a lot of fiction that comes out of a lack of transparency, right, which you. Which, then which, which is never labeled fiction, right? And then it becomes all of a sudden fact. You're like, what? So, yeah, 

Toni Rose Deanon  55:09  
yeah, yeah. And that's why I was thinking, like, with this Checklist Manifesto, definitely check it out. I'll put that in the show notes as well. It's just the fact that, like, everything is transparent, everything is clear. And then, you know, the person who's creating this checklist make sure that their team understands the purpose, they understand the procedure, they can practice it. And then, in a way, like this checklist, the checklist that they embedded into like health practice, like doctors, we're creating checklists finance advisors. We're creating checklists for like, their team to create, just like, a more collaborative and a more like, nurturing, right? I feel like you have to be clear to to create the space of of support and collaboration, I think. But yeah, like, what are your thoughts on that? I know you were like, Oh, I read that, like, three years ago. I can't believe you read it all. Well, 

Sean Aker  56:04  
I'm so glad you read it a little more context on it. So the author is atul Atul Gawande, I think is how you pronounce his name. He's also done a couple, at least one TED talk that I watched recently. Actually, he's a he's a doctor, he's a surgeon, and basically the the, you know, there was just a lot of death happening at hospitals post surgery, surgical death that could have been prevented. And they realized that if they had set some things up, some procedures up in place, and double checked to make sure that things were going well, that we could prevent these negative outcomes on the back end. So, all right, so my thought on this, okay, that I have to go back to, like, education in the classroom and even evaluation. You know, our evaluation systems for administrators and classroom teachers, even our paraprofessionals, you know, they're people feel they make people feel so bad sometimes, right? Or they unintentionally cause our evaluators to, I mean, to unintentionally be not as truthful as they need to be, because I don't want to hurt my colleagues feeling they are doing good. You know, we, most of us, are, I think scale of one to four, right? And like, essentially, three means you're adequate. Four means Yeah, like you're you're great, right? I mean, if I was going to really distill it down into just like some feelings, you know, so I feel, I feel okay. I feel good about being a three, I feel awesome about being a four. But if I'm, if I don't have enough force, if I only have threes, and God forbid, I have a two, right? We have, you know, then you have like this disruption. You have like this perseveration on like these low areas, because evaluation happens, you know, you get formal evaluation twice a year. If you're on cycle and then you're off cycle, it doesn't happen for every three years. So who is checking your procedure? Who's actually checking it? If I'm an administrator who oversees 50 staff members, that alone is a full time job, how am I ever going to give them the feedback they need? Let me tell you when you're a classroom teacher or if you're an administrator with a staff you've got that many people who can give you feedback on how you're doing if things are set up transparently. So The Checklist Manifesto, they even talk about Wanda talks about airlines right there, like they have flight check right? Let's, let's go down this checklist. They check off everything, because if they don't, if something happens and your plane crashes, right, that is a lot of people that are going to suffer because of that with life, right? So, you know, in education, it's, it's not that dire, right? We're not necessarily talking about life and death, but we are talking about how, how our students feel, or how they're currently feeling, or how they're receiving their education, how they're experiencing their education. And you know, teachers are there. They have feelings and perspectives about how they're coming into a space, or how they're being received into a space, how they're being received by their colleagues. And if there are some agreements on ways that we want to be in this space together, we can check with one another, and our team has leaned on this program through it's a program out of the Yale Center for emotional intelligence called ruler. Ruler is regulating, understanding, labeling, expressing, I'm sorry, recognizing, understanding, labeling, expressing, and regulating emotions. And you know that it. You know, there's, there's multiple parts that like the number one thing is, like, create this charter. It's essentially this agreement of how we want to feel in this space. It's not necessarily a checklist. It's kind of open ended, right? It's like, okay, we agree. We want to feel valued. We agree. We want to feel connected, right? Those are a couple of basic agreements that come up quite often on some of the charters that I've seen. And you start with adults, right? And classrooms can do the same thing, but in this classroom, this is where you want to feel. Now we talk about the behaviors we want to, you know, kind of like some basic behaviors we want to see. And then, yeah, there might be some others. But then when we see behaviors that aren't in agreement or in alignment with the ways we want to feel, we can check each other and have that conversation. And there's like, this blueprint where it's like, okay, if something is off the rails, right, how do we check? So this Checklist Manifesto, you know, and this is just like, that's about feelings. That's something like, operationally, but like, there's when we talk about, like, the ways that we're being, like, are we living into the agreements we have with one another to be in this space? And then you can get very technical. I want to feel informed. Well, now we're talking about procedurally, and again, just kind of talking about my team, one of, like, one of the things that was happening, we do a lot of professional development. I can't remember how many events we had this year, but it was like crazy. It was a crazy amount of events we have. And you have, you know, we've got like, 10 or 1213, people producing these events. They all funnel through our two awesome senior clerical specialists. And, you know, from booking a room to booking food if we need to, and catering to ensuring that communication is good to set up, and all of these things, well, things aren't transparent enough, then there's disruption and there's confusion and there's lack of information, I don't know what's happening and and we had to create a system where we're in everybody knew what was happening. The flow was clean, and we're still working on the system, but it's getting better and better, because we're constantly accepting feedback, and then we review afterwards, you know, and it's short phases, short cycle, phases of improvement, if that is not built in, you know, the system of care, the system of checking procedures. This, this open mindset to receiving feedback if things are not working or for not producing the results we want. And if the mindset is like that, blame mindset of like, well, you didn't, well, I did mine, so I'm good, but you didn't do yours. Like this, this collegial approach to finding ways to do better. I think evaluation ends up taking care of itself, because you can identify people who are basically, you know, unwilling to change, or maybe don't have the skills or the capacity to do the things they need to do in the role they're in? So let's find them a role that fits better, but it's but it becomes very, very clear to everybody where folks are strong, or where the system is working, or where it's not working, and then we can really look at the system together and know our part in that system. So you check this manifesto. I mean, this is, like a long way around it, but it's like there are different things that need to happen, and we constantly need to be checking, but we also need to be open to feedback for what is working. You know, open feedback, not, not didactic, not yes, this worked. No, this didn't work. Like, hey, what worked for you? You know, what didn't work for you? Tell me, what are your ideas to make this even better and then incorporate those things as we can, as we should, or as we need to, honestly,

Toni Rose Deanon  1:03:58  
Sean, like that was, that was pure magic. How you connected it with assessments and evaluations, or just, rather, evaluations. And I was like, Yeah, that makes so much sense, right? Like, if the checklist is evaluation, right? Making it transparent, making it something that you know, our educators can understand, the whole process for it, then it's a much better way to create the space of whatever it is that our expectations are right. And then it got me thinking about students, because, again, I'm always thinking about our students right. When we think about mastery based learning or proficiency based or standards based, right, we want to have a clear rubric, right, like, a clear, quote, unquote checklist. Also, of like, what can you do to reach mastery? Like, what? What are some options? Or, what are some ways that you can reach mastery? And I always tell teachers, is too it's like, if you have a mastery check, you have to do it yourself so you know exactly what, what, what you want. You know what you want to see. Like, how do you think our students? Going to answer this mastery check. How long did it take you, right? What are some misconceptions that may show up in this question that you had asked? Or maybe, what is this question of restricting or limiting our students, right? And so it's just really interesting that, like when you have a mastery check or any kind of assessment, honestly, you want to have a really clear and transparent way of showing and sharing. Like, oh, this is how you quote, unquote, reach mastery, right? Or, like, this is how you can show that you really understand the concept that we're teaching you. And so, yeah, my mind is just kind of going everywhere, and I really, again, appreciate it. Yeah, my neurodivergent brain is just like, oh my gosh, I can talk about

Sean Aker  1:05:40  
this. I can talk about, yeah, maybe I don't

Toni Rose Deanon  1:05:46  
know it's great, because, again, it's just a reminder to how important feedback is right and being receptive and how change is inevitable. Something that worked for you the last year may not work for you the next year, or something that worked for you last week, may not work next week. And so just being able to being open to iterations, being open to change, and there's just, oh, there's always room for improvement. There's actually not an end goal. Like, we just don't say, like, oh, here we are. And then think that that's what we're gonna stay. We get stagnant, and that's not that's not what we want. That's not how we grow, that's not how we get our students to students to grow. That's not how we get our community and our team teammates to grow as well. So So again, thank you for those Thank you just for those reminders, like, Duh, like, I needed to hear that. Let's think about, okay, I'm really curious. Like, what do you hope to see in the future? What goals do you have? Can be personal or professional? Really up to you.

Sean Aker  1:06:43  
You know, I I guess I hope. I guess I really hope I might my youngest daughter, she's going to the second grade, and I hope that by the time she's in high school, she's got things are a little bit more clear for her in terms of in terms of grading practices, in terms of her locus of control, in terms of helping her to not feel like she's being funneled into a college route or a CTE route. I would love to have kids understand that every step of the process keeps them open, so that post secondary I have a plethora of options. I could go this way or that way or the other way. I would love to see that play out a little bit more. Some of I know a couple of counselors who are just phenomenal people. They they serve students so well. And still, I hear you are a college track type of a student. You are a CTE type of track student, you know, and that I don't know their perspective, they're saying that with, you know, respect to the student, with respect to what they know about the student, with respect to what they know about the process, which is deeper than mine, but it still causes me to just, you know, panic, just a little bit like, Are we, are we just funneling that student, you know, why are we saying that, that that's the type of person you are? You know, I was actually, I was going to join the military. I was right out of high school, I was like, 100% I was going to join the military. It wasn't even a question on my mind. I was like, Yeah, not really that. I was like a three. I was like a 3536, GPA in high school, and I did not challenge myself. I didn't take any advanced classes. I probably was not the most academically honest student at times. Not proud of that, but, you know, I made it through. I think, you know, charisma probably helped with that confidence. You know, my my upbringing, I probably didn't recognize my privilege that I had, and I was, I was going to join the military, and then my my high school pitching coach, I just remember it was like a summer. It was, it was summer. We were already playing summer ball, so it was like late June or something. And he said, Hey, you, you should go pitch. You could go pitch down at the community college. He's like, you could easily go pitch over there. I mean, had he not said that, I doubt that I would have become an educator. It's very likely I probably would have been a career military person, because I just kind of get into something, and I just keep going in that direction. I get passionate about whatever it is I'm doing, and. And you know, that changed my trajectory. And you know, I was, I was military because I didn't have a lot of interaction with my counselor. I it seemed like a good thing to do. I, you know, I so that would have been my route, had I had more conversation and known like, Hey, these are my options. I might have looked at, okay, what would it take to do this or that or the other? And I just I hadn't done that. And so I I hope that my daughter, you know, seven years from now, whatever she goes into high school, I hope that that she can have a little bit of a picture painted of like, okay, if you choose this doorway, these are the doorways it will open up. And if you choose, choose this doorway, these are the doorways it will open up. And she'll see, oh, I can choose door number one, door number two, door number three, and look at the intersection of the doors beyond door number one, door number two, door number three. There is intersection within those and so I hope that that can be clearly articulated to her and to more students as we go into the future.

Toni Rose Deanon  1:11:07  
That resonates a lot with me. Sean, thank you for sharing that, and I wrote my notes. You know, with the counselors, I was definitely labeled College Track, right? Like that was what college you to go to. What do you need to get into college? This is what you need, you know? This is kind of, these are the skill sets. These are the classes. Like, it was always very much College, and for me, that was just such a limiting narrative. Like you said, I didn't know my other options. I didn't know there were other options. Instead, I got into student loan debt, right? Because I'm like, Oh, I'm gonna go to college. And, like, my parents couldn't afford it, so I just took out all the loans, and so it's like, it's a very limiting narrative. And I really do love this whole concept of, like, paint a picture here all of your options. And I would also love, I would also add on to your future goals. For me anyway, like, here are all the options, and not one is better than the other. They just right, because sometimes we tend to think, as a society, oh, if you go to college, it's so much better. And and I've been doing a lot of self reflection lately, and it's like, I miss being in the classroom. I think I've said that over and over and over again, and I love learning, and I love expanding my brain. And Avery, and I were talking actually, and I was like, You know what I'm getting in this space in my life where I'm like, I could probably get my doctorate. And then I started chuckling, and I said, Actually, Avery, instead of getting a doctorate, I'm going to go to trade school and get my plumbing license. I want to learn how to be a plumber. Because academia has always been easy for me. That's not going to really expand my brain, right? Like, I want something that's going to challenge me, and I feel like trade school, like we just don't talk enough about trade school. We don't talk enough about CTE. We don't talk about, you know, the other options, that's not college. And so I'm like, can you imagine, just like me being a plumber, getting my hands dirty like that makes me feel really uncomfortable, but I feel like it'd be so exciting than me getting a doctorate. But you know what? That's the stage of my life right now. But thank you for bringing up all of these emotions as you were talking about your hopes for your daughter. I also hope that for your daughter, because I feel like for your daughter and all of the student you know, all the kids out here just experiencing schools right now. And so Sean, I appreciate your time. I appreciate your expertise. I appreciate your patience as well. How can our listeners connect with you? 

Sean Aker  1:13:36  
Well, you mentioned actually, you know, running a lot, and if anybody, I suppose, wanted to follow me on Strava, I'll have to get you that link, because you mentioned that. You know, Strava is like social network for, you know, athletic things, right? So you can do all kinds. Anyway, if people know Strava, they're on there, they can get on the on I'll follow it. I'll send it to you. I really don't do a whole lot of social media except LinkedIn, so I've got a LinkedIn profile, and folks can follow me there. I'll post occasionally, things connected to what I'm passionate about, oftentimes, about my family, because that's like, that's the whole reason I do anything, is like, I want to make sure that they they have the life that that they need and, yeah, those are two. Those are the probably two best ways to get a hold of me, my email. Folks can have my email. We can drop that in the chat so they can reach out that way. But I'm happy to chat about the things we spoke about today. Yeah, these are, like, these topics are just, they're so important. You know, originally we talked about the system alignment, and every system is different, right? And just understanding why we do the thing you mentioned, you know, like, I'm told to do something, and it's like, yeah, we're all told to do things. How can we do them? Why? What's the purpose behind the. Things we do, how is it going to help me be the best that I can be, or serve those that I need to serve really well? And just being open to those conversations, I'm happy to have any of those kinds of conversations, because sometimes they're really tough and you just need somebody who's very neutral. Yes,

Toni Rose Deanon  1:15:20  
I love that. So definitely reach out listeners. This is definitely the first time Sean, that we've had someone say, reach out to me or be friends on Strava. I love it. I actually don't have Strava, but I feel like I should as a runner, because every runner I know is like Strava, Strava, but good to know. So we'll definitely, we'll definitely put that in the show notes. So thank you, like some

Sean Aker  1:15:46  
of my friends on Strava, I don't have that many friends on Strava, just the people I know. Like, I don't friend a lot of people I just kind of like, anyway, 

Toni Rose Deanon  1:15:56  
yeah, totally, totally understandable. Okay. Well, thank you so much for sharing your experiences and expertise, Sean. I absolutely love spending time with you anytime I get a chance, so just thank you and we can just continue to appreciate each other honestly. Okay, well, listeners, remember, you can always email us at podcasts@modernclassrooms.org, and you can find the show notes for this episode of podcast. Dot modernclassroom modernclassrooms.org/ 202, we'll have this episode's transcript uploaded by Friday, so be sure to check back to access those also, we are asking our listeners to leave a review of this podcast has been helpful in supporting you to create a human centered learning environment through a blended, self paced and mastery based model. It does help other folks find it. Thank you all for listening. Have a great week, and we'll be back next Sunday.

Zach Diamond  1:16:49  
Thank you so much for listening. You can find links to topics and tools we discussed in our show notes for this episode, and remember, you can learn more about our work@www.modernclassrooms.org and you can learn the essentials of our model through our free course learn.modernclassrooms.org you can follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram at modernclassproj, that's P, R, O, J, we are so appreciative of all you do for students in schools. Have a great week, and we'll be back next Sunday with another episode of the modern classrooms project podcast. You.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai