Zach Diamond  0:03  
welcome to the modern classrooms project podcast. Each week, we bring you discussions with educators on how they use blended, self paced and mastery based learning to better serve their students. We believe teachers learn best from each other, so this is our way of lifting up the voices of leaders and innovators in our community. This is the modern classrooms project podcast,

Toni Rose Deanon  0:28  
hello and welcome to episode 213, of the modern classrooms project podcast. My name is Toni Rose Deanon, they them pronouns, a designated hype person here at MCP, and I am joined today by this rock star elementary school teacher, Drea Siford, welcome, Drea, 

Drea Siford  0:43  
hello.

Toni Rose Deanon  0:44  
It's so exciting to be in this space with you. And thank you so much for saying yes to the podcast before we get started. What is bringing you joy currently?

Drea Siford  0:51  
Oh, what is bringing me joy currently? Well, I mean, the fall colors. I'm here in Maryland, and so, like, they've just started to, like, really take off, and it's still, like, warm enough to enjoy them. So that's been bringing me some joy.

Toni Rose Deanon  1:08  
Oh, that's really nice. I really love the colors that show up in the fall. So yes, yes, and yes, I'm here in Georgia, and it is still so hot outside, and that is something to embrace and fight about,

Drea Siford  1:22  
I grew up in California, so like, you know, we got minimal fall colors, so being in the mid atlantic for me, like, that's like a a real treat. Like, all four seasons.

Toni Rose Deanon  1:34  
Yes, that's what I hear all the time from folks who didn't have the four seasons. So, really dope. So Dre Okay, go ahead, go ahead and tell us more about who you are and how you started your MCP journey, or even just really talk about your education journey, if you'd like to. All right.

Drea Siford  1:49  
Well, Drea Siford just said I was originally from California and had like, a roundabout trip to Maryland via South Carolina for a few years, and then Florida and now in Maryland, I actually worked in like food and beverage, like restaurant work, for many, many years, and then switched to teaching eight years ago. And I love it like I couldn't imagine doing anything else with my life, but for modern classroom, Project happened for me, like, kind of during pandemic. Shortly after, during the pandemic, I had actually noticed that a lot of these technologies that I was like, kind of like, quote, unquote, being forced to use, were actually amazing. And I saw students that wouldn't normally interact having ways to interact because they whether it was because they were shy or because like, they could use the technology to their benefit, you know, for accessing material that they found difficult to access before. And so I knew when I came back into the classroom, I wanted to find ways to really leverage that, and I started, kind of like experimenting on my own with, like a self paced form of learning, like using Zearn lessons, because we were like Eureka math at the time. And number one, my math scores increased, my engagement increased, and, like, kids just couldn't get it enough. And I was like, oh my god, I have got to find a way to do this for, like, all of my curriculum, because I'm a fourth grade teacher, and at the time I was teaching all subjects, and, um, all you know, one day I'm listening to another podcast, Angela Watson's podcast, and Kareem was on there. And then I was like, This guy is saying everything that I found to be true in my teaching experience so far, you know. And then, you know, lo and behold, he was a DC public school teacher, and I'm a Baltimore public school teacher, so I was like, this guy truly understands, he understands, you know, the special challenges to teaching in this environment, and he has found a way to meet the needs of all of his students. Because I really had recognized that, like I was not doing that. And so I signed up for the free course, I took it over a summer, and pretty much meant I spent the whole summer like redesigning the way that I taught, and then came back to school the following year, like knowing that I could only do this with one subject, and that if I could get departmentalized, that was be amazing. And luckily, my administrators and other fourth grade teachers agreed to departmentalize, and I went with ELA to sweeten the pot for one of my colleagues who I knew enjoyed math. So I was like, Look, I'll take ELA. You can. Have math. And then I started just like, reworking everything. And then the first couple weeks, my administrator, my principal, came in, and she saw what I was doing, and was just like, What is this magic that you're doing? This is insane in the best possible way, and it's just kind of like snowballed from there, like it just keeps getting better.

Toni Rose Deanon  5:27  
Oh, I love this Drea, and it's so interesting. I didn't know that about you, that you were into, like, you were working food and beverage, right? Like the restaurant work. And then how did you decide, like, oh, actually, I'm gonna go into education instead. How did that, how did that, like, formulate in your head?

Drea Siford  5:45  
This is, like, such a crazy, I mean, this is a really long story that, you know what I mean. But, um, I had, sort of had been living this, like, I don't know, nomadic lifestyle, you know, of like, kind of like, not really, not really, more like working to live than living to work sort of lifestyle. You know what I mean? I had an education, but I also had, like, lots of friends that were living in places like Lake Tahoe and Key West and Hilton Head and, you know I could get, I could make good money bartending and waiting tables in places like this, and living seasonally. And so, like, I just did that for many years, and it gets really easy to sort of just like, stay on that hamster wheel. But like, after a while, like, I just knew that it wasn't like fulfilling me. Like I needed more. Like I needed purpose, you know. And so, like, I didn't want to just like, live. I didn't want to work to live anymore. You know, I knew that I wanted a job that, like, was help making me feel more like a part of something bigger than myself. And so, you know, teaching had always been on my radar, because, like, I loved school, and in particular, fourth grade I loved, so I don't know, here I am, 

Toni Rose Deanon  7:06  
and that just worked out so beautifully that you're teaching fourth grade. 

Drea Siford  7:09  
Oh, I went after fourth grade. Yeah. No, that was like, I knew, I knew I wanted to teach this. I knew I wanted to teach, like, those, those middle grades, like, three through five,

Toni Rose Deanon  7:18  
yeah, yeah. No, that, that's, that's so great. And, you know, I'm just chuckling with, like, the whole nomadic lifestyle thing, right? Because, I mean, there's a trend now where teachers are leaving the classroom to go be bartenders and be part of the restaurant industry, which I think is so fascinating. Because, I mean, I also, I was also a server. One summer, I made a lot of money in six weeks. So I was like, Wait a minute. How does this work? 

Drea Siford  7:45  
Listen, I took a pay cut to become a teacher. It took me, like, I want to say, four years before I saw, like, the first like, Okay, I made as much money this year as I did bartending in Key West.

Toni Rose Deanon  7:59  
Holy cow. And how did you keep your like, sanity, or rather, why did you stick with it when you were like, Oh man, I'm not making enough money. And I know I hear, you know you needed purpose, and you know you kind of wanted to work somewhere that's like, larger than yourself, right? And I love that, and I get that, yeah, but it was, it just like a mindset shift of shift of like, you know what? It's okay, I'm not making as much money as I used to, and this feels actually much better for me,

Drea Siford  8:25  
yeah. And it was like I had my eye on, like, a larger goal, you know what I mean, like I was looking at, like, years down the line, versus, like, staying, you know, just thinking about this year, because I knew that sooner or later I would make more, you know, and like, things like pensions and health care and all of that sort of stuff. Like, you know it matters,

Toni Rose Deanon  8:46  
yeah. And how did you end up in Maryland, of all places? Because you were going to all the cool places, right, key, West Lake, Tahoe, and then now Maryland.

Drea Siford  8:53  
Well, my husband grew up here, and we knew that we wanted to buy a home, so like we were looking at the different, the different sort of, like, different places that we had on our list. And like, is it Maryland? I know people from Maryland will say this is not true, but when you've lived in places like Lake Tahoe and Key West, like Maryland is very affordable, you know, plus family, yeah, you're

Toni Rose Deanon  9:18  
absolutely right about that. And I like it, you know, like Baltimore

Drea Siford  9:22  
is like, a very like, it's a very like, blue collar city. It's a working class city. Like people in Baltimore are, like, down to earth and like, real like, it doesn't have like, a pretentious feel to it. And like, so we both liked that.

Toni Rose Deanon  9:37  
I do have to agree with the realness of Baltimore, right? There is no, I mean, I never thought I would end up in DC. And so for me, I was like, I'm not going to DC. I'm actually gonna go to Baltimore. And absolutely just love the people in Baltimore, like my students, my colleagues, everyone was just so real, like they, they keep you humble, okay? And I love that. And then. Moving to DC, it was a lot of, what do you do? What's your title? And I was not prepared for that. So I really love that you, you said that it was such a nice reminder. Okay, this is, this is great. Some more. You know, background information about you that I didn't know, which, which is really fascinating. So thank you for sharing and answering all the follow up questions that I have. And so, okay, Drea, you you learned about us in 2020. Is 2024, now, right? Basically makes you, like a seasoned implementer, you've been doing it for a half minute. Like you said, You've been improving. And then also, like, everything aligned right where you're like, I want to just focus on one subject. And then your school departmentalized fourth grade, which worked out really well for you. And so what are some of the strategies that you've kept every single quarter or year in ELA specifically.

Drea Siford  10:50  
All right, so a couple things I think that with like ELA and fourth grade that have worked for me. Like I know some other teachers like to put like a whole like unit out at a time. But I really kind of just, like, put little pieces out at a time for them, you know, like, I have those, like, soft deadlines, like often to keep them on pace. You know, otherwise, I feel like my students would probably fall behind very, very quickly. So, like, I don't give them a lot of lessons and then say, Okay, this is what to do at the end of the quarter. But it's like, here's a I use what I call, you know, game boards. And I'll be like, this game board is for the next two weeks, you know, or week, or whatever it is, so that, you know, it's chunking, it's not overwhelming, like young brains,

Toni Rose Deanon  11:42  
yeah, and that's a really great reminder, too, because I know again, right? We get so excited, we're like, here all the things for the whole unit, and then I know for me, I would have completely shut down, especially as a young kid in fourth grade. So okay, let's talk about your soft deadlines. How do you determine the deadlines and how? How do you determine the pacing of the lessons as well. I know you said is, it's either weekly or every two weeks. How do you determine the deadline? Because I know sometimes our educators struggle with deadlines, and they always, they often say, like, Oh, my students are way behind than what I had originally planned. 

Drea Siford  12:16  
Yes, and that's, you know, I, like I said at the very beginning, I just had a Friday and these were, like, some of the discussions that I was having with my students, you know, like that we can't take forever, you know, on this and reminding them that today was was a deadline and that we didn't make it, you know, like, so I gave them, like, one more day, and then it's like, a for Sure, for sure. But I, I don't know. I'm very fluid with it. You know what I mean? Because, like, for me in the fourth grade, and also because, you know, 75 to 80% of my students are multilingual learners. Like, I'm always like, I'll say this like, to my admin, and luckily, I have like, cool admin that I can be like, real with is like, I can be on pace, or I can have them learn and like, sometimes I can't do both, and luckily, like, my admin understands that statement. And so I might have to rework something a little bit later to let it go a little bit longer, especially in the beginning of the year. So I just am constantly, sort of, like, weighing those decisions in my head about, like, how vital is it that, like, they finish this, you know, do I need to give them more time? Or can I just say, like, we've got to be done and move on. I'm covering this again later in the school year, you know, but it's a constant weighing and balancing act. I feel like, yeah,

Toni Rose Deanon  13:50  
I was just gonna say too. Like, kudos to your leaders for creating a space for you to just be honest and real, right? Like, Hey, do we want students to be on pace, or do we want them to actually learn? And I think some context behind this too. And Baltimore City Public Schools, there is a curriculum that you have to follow, right, and there is an expectation that you stay on task, especially when you when you get observed, right, when you have like, instructional coaches or just school leaders coming in. And so just some context for our listeners here, when we talk about on pace, like, that was the expectation of like, hey, if I come on this day, this is the lesson that you should all be on right, like whole district. And what Drea is saying is like, Yes, I hear you and

Drea Siford  14:32  
yes, I hear you and 

Toni Rose Deanon  14:34  
and we want our students to actually learn right. Because, like you said, there are plenty enough barriers for students who are not even multilingual learners right to access the information and the standards and the concepts that they need to master, right? And then to add a different another layer of hey, these are students who are learning the language is going to take more time, and so we want to make more time for. Students to grapple, to struggle, and then to master the skills, as opposed to saying, like, nope, actually, sorry, moving on.

Drea Siford  15:07  
Yeah. So, like, my data had not been very good, you know, and I just was, like, working my tail off all the time, doing all the things. But you know, what was supposed to happen wasn't happening, and I didn't understand why. And so, like, for me, the the first big aha I had was that I was moving too fast, you know? And when I moved to a self paced model, the kids showed me right away that I was moving too fast, and I started to notice, like, yeah, it was taking me longer. But oh my god, they understood they were learning, you know. And so it was a whole new experience for me on what school could look like, how it could feel in a classroom, what this could be, you know, and like I'll never forget, like, my first year implementing, and it was towards the end of the school year. I mean, I literally got tears in my eye because there was, like, this one day I was just sitting batch walk, watching my classroom, and there's like, a girl like, skipping across my classroom to go and get her notes from the bin, and there's kids, like, just giggling and laughing everywhere. And it was just like pure joy in my classroom. And I was like, the model created this,

Toni Rose Deanon  16:29  
and I can just hear that, right? The giggles. And I love it when students get so excited about, you know what? I'm gonna go grab my notes and I'm gonna skip like that. Like, How adorable is that? Right? That's really great. And I think that's one of the things too, that I really love to focus on, is just the fact that, like, let's bring back joy into the learning and the teaching of all the things, right? Because school has been schooling, and we got to shift some things around and get rid of some other things. I do want to touch base on this data that you were talking about, right when you were on pace with the curriculum, right, just as what the district was expecting you to and you said, the data has not been good. So like, clearly, something's not working here. And I also hear, too from teachers who first implement the model that their data is not that great yet, right? Because, again, it's just like starting out as well, and like students are, I guess, getting used or adjusting to this new way of teaching and learning. But from what my understanding from you is that you implemented at the end of the school year. You may not, I don't know if you had, like, numerical data, but I can, I can hear from the stories that you said, like, No, my kid was skipping. They were talking about the work. They were laughing and giggling. That also is data. Did you see any numerical data as well? As far as like, mastery was concerned, at the end of the school year? 

Drea Siford  17:49  
Oh no, for sure. Like, and I did actually implement at the beginning of a school year,

Toni Rose Deanon  17:54  
Oh, got it. Okay, got it, got it, yeah. So it was like, You input it, and then at the end of the year was like, oh, okay, now I'm taking a step back and reflecting all about, okay, got it. Got it. Thank you for the clarification. 

Drea Siford  18:03  
Yeah, I'm trying to, like, remember, like, how the years went. I think it was like the 2122 might have been the year that I was experimenting on my own, and then 2223 was like the first year I implemented fully modern classroom project. So yeah, 2322 23 and then 2324 and now again. This is my third year of full implementation. And yeah, no, that very first year, the data, the data, the data showed it that very first year, like I said, My My classroom is 75 to 80% multilingual learners, and so even though I am not a English Development Teacher, like an English language and ELD teacher, I I still feel responsible for that, especially because I'm a language language arts teacher and I'm I'm teaching so closely with my English language development teacher that, like I, I look at the WIDA scores, and I care about the WIDA scores, you know. And that very first year, we noticed a huge difference in our WIDA scores that very first year. And then, in addition, my MCP scores were better than they'd ever been.

Toni Rose Deanon  19:23  
Oh my gosh. And that's the first year that you were that you implemented,

Drea Siford  19:27  
yes, and then I saw the same thing again last year.

Toni Rose Deanon  19:31  
Yes, I love to hear this.

Drea Siford  19:33  
I'm assuming that I'll see the same thing again this year. But they I mean, the data wasn't like awful, awful before, but it's been, since I've done this, it's been the best, yeah,

Toni Rose Deanon  19:45  
that's, that's what I hear from educators as well, too. Are posting in our Facebook community, right? Like, hey, if you need, you know, motivation, this is, these are my numbers, right? And we just started implementing like this semester, and also just like the cell. Celebrations of educators saying, like, Hey, I had almost 100% of my students mastered the skill. And that in itself, I know when I was in the classroom was really difficult prior to implementing this model, and then this just kind of made it more doable, I think, right? And more like, oh, I can actually do this. It's not just a pipeline, like it's not just a dream, it is actually it can be a reality. So that's really great to hear as well. Thank you for that. And so I guess, like the conversations that you have with your school leaders, how has that shifted? Have they just been I know that you said that they're pretty supportive, and they love the changes, and they love the increase in data, right? Because we do love data increasing. Was there any other thing as far as like teacher evaluations or school expectations that you also kind of had to play around with or share other things to make it work?

Unknown Speaker  20:52  
I mean, a little bit. But you know, at the same time that I started implementing this, my school was actually being remodeled, and they have a big initiative in Baltimore City right now called 21st Century schools. So, like all of these schools are being updated to become 21st century schools. And when that happens, your school has to choose, like, what sort of 21st century model are you guys going to focus on? And you can do like project based learning. Blended learning was one of the options. And my school had opted into blended learning, so this kind of just fell right in with that. And one of the requirements also was for, you know, someone to lead a PLC within the school around blended learning. So I I led a PLC in my building of modern classroom project. So even though I had already done like the free course, then me and 10 other educators in my building signed up for the mentorship the through the virtual mentorship program, and we all went through it together. So, you know, trying to, kind of, like, get more teachers within the building and involved. And since then, one of those teachers has moved into a math coach position, and so she's bringing this into, like, our academic planning meetings now also where, like, the teachers are experiencing this model. Oh, that's dope.

Toni Rose Deanon  22:22  
So she's utilizing it as a coach so people can really see and experience it, 

Drea Siford  22:28  
and so that we can, you know, work efficiently together. Like it makes my heart so happy. 

Toni Rose Deanon  22:35  
Yes, I love that. That's That's so great to hear and and also, Drea, I mean, the whole concept of you getting 10 teachers to sign up, how was that process? Like, did, did it take a lot of trying to persuade them or teachers? After your presentation, your teachers were just like, oh, no, no. Like, definitely want to do this. 

Drea Siford  22:53  
Yeah. I mean, I don't feel like it was, like, too hard to get 1010, teachers on board. No. Like, I mean, I'm upfront with people like, this is work. You know what? I mean, on the front end, this is a lot of work. And even my third year in, it's still a lot of work. It's not, you know, it's less work than it was the first year or the second year, but it's still a lot of work. But like, my, you know, thinking behind that is, like, it was a lot of work before, too, and for me, it was inefficient and it wasn't working. But now is still a lot of work, but it's working better. You know? Could it be better? Absolutely, it always could be, you know what I mean, but, like, it is better. And so I don't mind putting in the extra work then. So I think that's usually to me, kind of what, like, some teachers are always hesitant, like, they just, they see, like they see, they can tell that work is going to go into this, you know. And I don't blame them, you know, like, we already have a lot on our plates. So I think that's the biggest hurdle always for me to try to get people over. But, you know, one of the things I really respect about modern classroom project is that it's opt in, you know, and it's one of the reasons that I love them, is that they're never like, I'm gonna push this model down your throat. It's like, Hey, if you want to do this cool, let's do it. And if you don't, there's other good ways to teach too. This is just one,

Toni Rose Deanon  24:28  
yeah, and just the concept too. Of, I've heard Kareem say, like, if you pick and choose as well the other strategies that, or other strategies that we were like, Oh, do this for self pacing. You're also more than welcome to do that. You don't actually have to implement the whole model. Whatever it is that we can do to support you, to make it a little bit easier for you, works for us. And you're right. I do love that part about us, and I think to Dre I want to highlight this whole there's a lot of work to do, but we just been doing it inefficiently, like we were not efficient. It with it. So can we do it in a way where it is actually efficient? And I think it takes a whole mindset shift for that too, right? Of like, Oh, it's a lot of work. I don't have time or the energy for it, right? And and then just naming the fact that, yeah, it is a lot of work, and this is actually going to make it so much better during the school year than doing what you've been doing before, right? And again, pick and choose whatever you want to highlight and focus on. It's also okay, but like you said, we can continue improving. So I really, I really love that.

Drea Siford  25:32  
I mean, even for me, because I teach language arts, you know, I feel like this model, you know, if you're a math teacher, this model, it's like, boom, boom, boom, perfect, right? And Kareem was math. So that makes sense with ELA, I find it needs to be a little bit more fluid, you know. So, like, we're finishing up an informational text right now. This is perfect for informational text, but the next is like a novel, and we're going to go whole group on it. I'm going to step away from the game board, from a little bit so that we can have that experience of, like, reading aloud together every day, and like, you know, group discussions about character development and things like that, you know. So, which is interesting, because when I told them this today, I there was a lot of cries, no, don't take the game board, you know, when just two weeks ago it was like, are we always gonna do the game board? You know? And like, once the kids get it though, like they do not, they do not want to stop, yeah,

Toni Rose Deanon  26:31  
and that's what, again, what I've been hearing often is when students complain about game board, the self pacing, right? And then they go back to whole group, and they were actually, then they go, no, no, actually, I don't want that.

Drea Siford  26:44  
So it's always like a good reminder, you know, for me this time of year, for the kids who aren't still, still fully on board, and I'm like, Okay, we're gonna do whole group for a little bit. And then they're just like, Wait a second. I don't know if I like this anymore. 

Toni Rose Deanon  26:57  
Yeah, and I like that. You're mixing it up, right? Because it doesn't mean that you have to self pace the entire time, either. So and we don't get rid of whole group at all. It's just like our whole group is just so much more intentional. Yeah,

Drea Siford  27:09  
there's places for all the different models and types of teaching. And I always just look at it as a tool in my belt and like, I'm gonna use whatever tool is best for the job. 

Toni Rose Deanon  27:19  
Mm, hmm, whatever is best for you and the students, right? It's like, okay, this could work, this probably won't work, or whatever else adjustment you need, right?

Zach Diamond  27:33  
Hey there, listeners. This is Zach dropping in with some reminders for the week of November 3, 2024 Have you always wanted a community to read books with? We are hosting a book club with screen PAL and Kami. The community is reading UDL and blended learning by Katie Novak and Catlin Tucker, and we're on our fourth session together, where Dr Catlin Tucker will be answering questions you can get your must do reading pages for our fourth session, which is on Thursday, November 7 at 7pm eastern second. We're attending gaetc in Atlanta, Georgia, from November 6 through the eighth. Toni Rose, our intrepid co host will be leading two sessions on finding your rhythm, building authentic relationships through self pacing on November 6 at 4:30pm and rock the remix, making blended learning inclusive and dispelling the fiction on November 7, at 3:15pm we hope to see some of you there. And of course, registration links are in the show notes. Now let's get back into it with Toni Rose and Drea.

Toni Rose Deanon  28:39  
Okay, I'm curious though, Drea, you have to kind of walk me through you said informational text. It works really well. How did you format that?

Drea Siford  28:48  
Um, so I find that it works really well with informational text, because that's more like, uh, how do I put it like it's it's more like the input, you know what I'm saying that we can do with, like, a with an instructional video, and then having them, like, practice a skill, and then, like, check for the understanding and stuff like that, I feel like it just works better with informational text. So I might have something like in this one. You know, there were numerous lessons on strategies for finding the meaning of unknown words, you know. So like, they would see me model it a couple times, and then they would find a partner and work with them on finding the meaning. And then finally, they're doing it themselves. And with a novels, I find that that can be a little bit harder, you know, it's not, it's not like those, those types of books aren't as like structured where you're going to find that, that, uh, that pattern to repeat itself. You know what I mean? Does that make sense? What I'm saying, 

Toni Rose Deanon  29:51  
yes, yes. It makes a lot of sense. And I know that's like, that's another question that a lot of our ELA teachers are asking, as far as, like, novel studies. How does that. Work with self pacing and and also just a shout out to the read aloud. Everyone loves a good read aloud. I know I do, and I'm an adult so, and I've heard also that high schoolers also love read aloud, right? And everyone and anyone love a good read aloud. So I'm glad that you're shifting right from self pacing to like, let's go back to whole group and do this thing to, you know, do this novel together. And I think again, it just keeps it fresh. Keeps your students on their toes as well. Because it's like, okay, like, we don't have to stick with the same thing all the time. Okay, so what we're in October now, y'all started in August or September.

Drea Siford  30:43  
We started like, like the last week of August, last week of August. 

Toni Rose Deanon  30:47  
So it's like almost three months now, like two and a half, something like that.

Drea Siford  30:52  
We're next week is the end of our first quarter? Got it? Okay? 

Toni Rose Deanon  30:56  
Yep, yep. So how did you roll this out to your students? As far as self pacing is concerned, do you have a unit zero? How long did it take for your students to also get used to this, to adjust to this? And I think maybe I may have misheard Tony say that you were able to move up with your students. Is that right or 

Drea Siford  31:16  
No, no, no, no, I want to.

Toni Rose Deanon  31:20  
You want to. That's what it was, yeah. That's what Tony was saying, yeah, like, Drea wants to. And he was like, which, you know, what teacher do you hear say they want to move up with their students? And I was like, gosh, me, 

Drea Siford  31:31  
one of these years, just because I want to see, like, what it's like, and I want to get the data for what it's like with a group of kids to hit the ground running. Because there is, like, some some time lost to, like, learning how to implement and so, like, if you don't have teachers in grades younger than you that are already doing this, there is some, like, heavy lifting for you to do to get them used to this idea. And there's like, some unlearning for them to do as well. And that can be painful sometimes, because, like, it's them going from a very like passive form of learning to a much more active form of learning, and and there's a mindset change for them, right?

Toni Rose Deanon  32:17  
And to think Drea that their fourth grade, right? So they've only been in school for like, four years, really, and that's, you know, the whole unlearning process is really difficult. I mean, one of the things that my best friend told me, you know, he goes, Do you really think we can unlearn things? Like, once we learn things, it's really hard for us to unlearn things. And I had to step back and think about I was like, yes, now it's really just recalibrating or re shit like, or shifting our mindset, like you said. And so I would be so curious if you were to ever loop with your students to see how that goes, because you're absolutely right there. There is a lot of time that is put like, there's a lot of effort and time that is put in the beginning of the school year to really grapple and go over how to do self pacing and how to be self directed learner, how to be a much more active learner, right? So, okay, when you how long did it take for you to roll this out?

Drea Siford  33:10  
So look, my first year, I did a full model Module Zero and like that didn't really work for me. Like I knew right away. I'm like, Okay, next year I can't do that because I lost too much time. And, you know, with multilingual learners and everything already taking longer than it is, it was like, or longer than then I have, you know what I mean, like, I can't really, like, spend that much time on it. So then the next year, I rolled it out piece by piece, a little bit slower. And then this year, I just kind of, I don't know, I'm a very fluid teacher, you know what I mean? Like, I'm very much like, Well, I'm just going to see how the kids are and how they're reacting to different things, and when they're ready for a piece, I'm going to introduce it, you know. And then when they're ready for another piece, I'm going to introduce it, you know. So once I saw, like, how good they were with computers, you know, I'd be like, Well, hey, let's do this lesson where we're just going to watch a video and we're going to take notes, you know, and but we would like do it whole group. And then I put out just like a little one day, like a one day game board where, you know, it showed them watching a video, taking notes, and then they had to go find a partner for what I call practice, and they had to do their practice together and then turn it in, and then complete, like, a quizzes, you know. And I'm like, what if you could do school like this, like every day, you know? When they were like, Yeah, you know. And so I just started, like, slowly rolling things out like that, and then I gave them their first game board. And, you know, every day in that beginning, I would just kind of like talk about a different piece, you know, like, we'd have this little introduction where I'd be like, Okay, so let's talk about, what does it mean to take good notes. What does watching videos look like? And what are some. Rules around that. How do I find a partner? How do I know when I'm ready to level up? You know, giving them, like, little personal anchor charts that they keep in their binders that show them, you know, the steps to getting started. Like, first I do this, I log in, then I go to the class website, then I, you know, find my name and, you know, things like that.

Toni Rose Deanon  35:23  
Oh, I really like that. It's really breaking down, like, it's scaffolding, right? Or just building blocks anyway. So it's not just like, Okay, throw you in the deep end and have fun. 

Drea Siford  35:31  
A little bit of throwing them in the deep end, but at the same time, like every day, like adding like pieces to help them understand better. And this was this year, like, they really took to it a lot faster than the previous years. Like, these kids were, like, I got it a little bit of, you know, like, a little bit of, like, hand holding and crying in the beginning, but once they got it, they they just, like, really, they took to it. 

Toni Rose Deanon  35:56  
Oh, that's, that's, that's really good to hear, actually. And I think it's it's also your process and procedures that you've created as well to make them really understand it that much quicker, too. And so you you brought up the blue signs that said, or you brought up level up. And when I went into your classroom and observed you, like I already knew you were a rock star teacher, based on, like, all of my colleagues saying that you were and so it was really great to see you in action, or rather, see the students in action. And so as I was walking around, they were blue signs that said, level up. Can you tell us more about that?

Drea Siford  36:33  
So I tried to, like, gamify everything as much as possible. So like their game board when they get to, like, a quote, unquote, like mastery check, I that's, I call them level ups because, like, that's like, what it is like in an in a video game, right? They level up like they understand that language. As fourth graders, they understand what it means to level up. And so when they do level up. They have these little signs that when they're working on on a mastery check, they have, like, little signs that say level up on them, that they put on their desk so that other people know not to talk to them, and also so that I can see that that's what they're doing, so that, like, if a student is talking to them, I can kind of be like, hey, you know we're not supposed to do that right now.

Toni Rose Deanon  37:23  
Yeah, and it's such a it's a great visual thing for you, like you said, right? And so this is just kind of saying, like listeners Drea didn't have a mastery check space where students got up and took their mastery checks in that corner, or a setup in the classroom. It was just, I was walking around, and there were a couple of students with a level up signs. And I in my head, I was thinking, Oh, they're doing like, something really cool. I mean, mastery checks are cool, but I love that, because you got to know your students, right? You understand that fourth graders love gamification, anything, games. And I do also just want to say, too, I visited my best friend in Pennsylvania the other weekend, and she has two kids, and they taught me Roblox, and now Jaya, I understand why Roblox is so addicting, and I get the appeal to it. So it's like really just understanding your students and understanding the lingo that they use so that they can get excited for things like a mastery check like that. That's really dope. 

Drea Siford  38:25  
Listen, these kids get so excited. It's crazy. Like they like, literally cheer when they like, complete a level up. They cannot wait to put their names on that little space so that they can do it. They will ask me if they can do them at home. Like, I actually have kids get excited to do homework. Ah, that's so lovely. It's crazy. Like, they're like, Wait, you mean I can do this at home? And I'm like, yeah, the videos are at home. You can take your notes home. Like, I don't let them do level ups at home, but like, all the rest of it, I'm like, Sure. And they're like, for real? And I'm like, yeah, for real, like playing a game, you know? And it's like learning. And that's like, one of the things that I really love about it is that, like, for fourth graders, especially, it makes their learning this very tangible thing on the game board that they can see. They can see that they're doing these things to get to this, this place where then they can prove what they know, and if they can prove what they know, then, you know, then they level up, and then they get to go learn something new. They're on a new mission, you know, or a new task, a new, you know, fight the dragon, whatever it is. And, you know, that's just like the way their brains think,

Toni Rose Deanon  39:45  
oh, and that's Oh my gosh. This is giving me chills, because that's what we want. We want our students to be excited. We want our students to be eager. And also just pointing out, you know, when you talk about the game board, it's tangible, right? And also it just. Eight says clear pathway. It's transparent. There's no surprises. Students know exactly what they need to do to get to where they need to be, right? And the whole concept of leveling up, I too, am just automatically like, I want to level up. I'm going to do all the things that I need to do to level up, because that's so cool. Of course, I'm going to cheer. And you just created this positive culture, learning culture in your classroom. So I love that so much. And I could tell also, with the students that I was engaging with in your class, that they were just excited to move their pieces and the game board. I mean, it was just so dope. And then there was even one kid that just kind of looked at me and was like, I am busy. Like, I'm doing stuff, don't bother me. I'm like, You're right. I'm gonna go now, yeah,

Drea Siford  40:51  
because usually, even with, like, the kids, you know that in the beginning that are like, not like, I don't know about this, and you know, those are the kids that usually are like, you know, maybe not into school and stuff like that. And in the beginning, they might be the kids that just sit there and they don't do anything, and you're kind of having to, like, remind them that they need to log in, that they need to watch the video, they need to get their notes. But sooner or later, what happens, at least for me, with like the game board, is like, they start to see their friends names just keep moving and their names staying in the same spot. And then they see their friends, like working with other people, because they know that if they're on, like, on my game boards, if they're on a green square, then that's like, I get to work with others, you know. And they want to go work with their friend. And then they're like, Oh man, I gotta, if I want to hang out with my friend, I gotta go do some work, you know? And so they'll start doing work so that they can work with their friend, because their friend has decided that, like, learning is fun, yes,

Toni Rose Deanon  41:49  
and that is that social piece too, right? It's not just the academic. I mean, academic comes along naturally, but it's the social piece. I mean, I feel like a lot of the times our students do show up for school because of the social piece. Their friends are there. They want to interact. They want to connect. And wow, what a great way to motivate our students, who are a lot, you know, are a little bit more reluctant and or struggling, right? It's just like, Oh, okay. Like, it's okay if I struggle, and I know that these are my friends I can talk to to help me. 

Drea Siford  42:17  
Yeah, I asked some of my students today, like, I was like, Well, I'm gonna do this podcast. I'm like, you know, what do you want me to tell them? How do you, you know, what do you guys think about the game board? They were so excited. And the very first comment that I got was that it feels good to do the game board, because you get to work with others and learn from them too.

Toni Rose Deanon  42:37  
Oh my gosh. I feel like we need to frame that, because that is, that's adorable, and that's amazing, and that's a whole thing, that that's what we want our students to feel we want it to we want learning to feel good for our students, right? And so, okay, fourth grader, love that. 

Drea Siford  42:54  
Yeah, they're there. I've got a really awesome group this year. I mean, I feel like I get an awesome group every year, but this group is, like, they're really cool. I like them. I'll keep them,

Toni Rose Deanon  43:05  
loop with them, loop with them. But that just means you have to do fifth grade stuff.

Drea Siford  43:12  
I mean, it would be like, you know, kind of like revamping the curriculum and stuff for me again, but like, at the same time, one of these years, it doesn't have to be this year, but one of these years, like I do, just want to see what happens when I can hit the ground running, you know, and what, what sort of growth can I see them? 

Toni Rose Deanon  43:30  
Yeah, yeah. Because then, you know, I mean people teachers who loop with their students absolutely love the fact that they don't have to do, you know, they don't have to cultivate relationships, because they already know their kids like the relationship is just continuous, so I'm excited if this ever comes to fruition. Drea, you have to keep me in the loop, because I I would love to hear that experience. Yeah, definitely. And I think also kudos to you, right? Because you continue to improve every year that you've implemented the model. And I love one of the strategies that I saw in your classroom is that there's QR codes, right? We love a good QR code, but this is something that I haven't seen in any of the classrooms that I visited anywhere. Maybe I wasn't paying attention to it, I don't know, but your student, every single student, had a QR code, and they would just like, bring up the QR code and put it in front of the camera, and then they were able to access the their learning materials that way, 

Drea Siford  44:22  
well, that just like, that's clever. That's the clever, yeah, that's the clever login they so clever gives like, QR codes like that way, so that they can, like, log in to their computers, basically, so like, they could have like, and because I have like, fourth graders with varying abilities. Like, some of them use QR codes, and some of them, like, know their passwords, and so they'll log in that way. Although today we just, I said, You're in fourth grade. Now, you know we gotta start, like, remembering passwords, and like, you know what our email addresses are. So we had a little like, let's see who can remember their email. Mail address and login passwords today, and they were all very proud to show me that, like 90% of them are there now. So QR codes might be going, although there's, it's still good like for, for, you know, if I need them to log into, like, say, a quizzes or something like that, like to use like QR codes that way. And I just learned this from my current ESOL, like CO teacher that, like, I can print those QR codes onto stickers that I can then, like, put on to like index cards and stuff. 

Toni Rose Deanon  45:36  
Oh, that's it's brilliant. It's brilliant. I absolutely love it, and it's even better with your explanation too. Dre of like, No, that was just a it was an option, right? And it was another scaffold for students to if you need more time to practice your passwords, cool, right? If you have capacity right now to practice it, great. If not. Here's a QR code sign in that way so you can just it lessens our cognitive overload, right? Like it lessens the frustration levels of students who may not have the grasp of like who may not know how to type words in yet, right? 

Drea Siford  46:08  
Yeah, because, like, you know, again, we're multilingual learners here at this school. Many of my students come from Honduras, El Salvador, like Guatemala, and they have some of them have been to school before. Some of them have not, and so like, there are a variety of learners in my classroom with a whole host of different needs and abilities and languages and knowledge that they come with,

Toni Rose Deanon  46:40  
and you're crushing it with this model, like, you're able to provide the needs, right? Because it's self pacing, because, you know what? We're gonna take our time here, all of the different strategies to also scaffold the learning, so it's a lot more accessible. And I love it. That's great. That's so great. 

Drea Siford  46:57  
And then for me too, like, I don't, usually I don't do, like, the the must do's and the should do's and all of that. Like, as far as they're concerned, on the game board, everything is a must do. But like, I know you know that the lesson on text structure is not going to help my kid that just got here from El Salvador, that that lesson is not for him. So, like, I know that when he gets there, we're just going to skip him, and I'm going to put him somewhere that's going to help him. You know that something that he can access now to help him with his learning. So that's like, another way that I like, use the model like differently than I guess the traditional model is that there is no must do, should do, everything's must do for them. As far as they're concerned. There's plenty of other lessons that I know that only my like most proficient students are going to get to that lesson, and they're getting that extension that they need. And they don't feel like they're doing extra work

Toni Rose Deanon  48:06  
right, right? And that's and that's the thing that I've been telling educators to Drea is like, Hey, you really you have permission to not label any of your lessons, any of your tasks. If you don't want students to skip the should do and aspire to do, don't label them. Everything is a must do, and then you have those one on one conversations, because that's still really personalizing learning, right? It's like, oh, yeah, cool. I know that the students able to do this right now, keep going. I know that the student will probably really struggle and may take a lot of time. We're going to pause off on that. We're going to pause on that real quick, right? And, and I love that. I Yes, yes, yes. And so the students, they never question you, though, Drea,

Drea Siford  48:44  
like, they do a little bit, okay, yeah. So, like, they'll be like, Well, why did he just get to skip that? And I'll be like, well, you know, you know that, remember that, or he has to go with that teacher a lot during class. So, like, you know, is it fair that they should have to do all of this when they're only in the class half the time. So you know, we're gonna say they don't have to do this part. Or then if a kid does something that, like that, not all the other kids did. And then we, like, stop the game board. I'll be, well, that's okay. You just got a bonus level. And then they get really excited about that. And I've even in the past, have other kids get very upset that they didn't get to do the bonus level, which would have been, you know, like the aspire to do. So, yeah, for me, not labeling them was much. Was helpful. I tried labeling in the beginning, and that didn't work for it just didn't work. Not for the fourth graders. They don't understand the difference.

Toni Rose Deanon  49:43  
Yeah, and I was just gonna say too, as long as you, as the teacher, the educator, know which ones are the must you should do, aspire to do, then that's all really that matters. Like your students don't need to know.

Drea Siford  49:54  
And for me, that that list looks different depending upon the student. Mm. What I'm saying, like, it's some students have different they have different needs, especially like in my classroom, you know, like they it is truly individualized learning, yeah.

Toni Rose Deanon  50:13  
And I also just wanted to point out too, that just because some students are skipping lessons doesn't mean that our our expectations are lower, right? Like, that's not what it means at all, at all. It just means that we are creating this space where it's all the must do assignments that will really help them, right, master the concepts that we really want them to know. And yes, we would like for all of our students to do all of the things. And in reality, that's not. It's just not real. It's not it's not possible. I mean, especially as adults, right? Like I would love to do all the things I don't have the energy or the knowledge or the capacity or the ability to do all of the things. And so again, just keeping in mind too that it does not mean you're lowering your expectations. It just means that you are just creating this space where students have the time to master the skills that they need to master at that time

Drea Siford  51:00  
exactly,

Toni Rose Deanon  51:03  
okay, Drea, I have a follow up question, because I know that you were talking about or rather, I have an assumption that elementary school teachers are really good at small group teaching and learning, right? How has this model helped with your small groups? Has it changed anything? Has it made anything better, or is it pretty stagnant? 

Drea Siford  51:23  
That's a really good question. So, you know, when I first started teaching, and I kept hearing, you know, oh, teaching in small groups, and they would give me the model of like, so we're gonna put out, you know, these different activities, and I'm gonna group kids like by their abilities, and then they're going to spend 20 minutes at each like little rotation, and then we're done. And that was so overwhelming for me. I was like, that seems like a lot of work for not a lot of payoff in my brain. That's the way that I thought of it. So what this model has allowed me to do with small Well, I mean, I teach when I'm using the model, when we're teaching the game board, I'm teaching entirely in small group all day, and but my small groups are, like, so intentional, you know, like, everything I'm doing is so intentional because I am looking, well, who's behind? Why are they behind? Let me pull those kids right. Let's address why they're behind. Or I'm looking at the mastery check that most of the kids just completed, and I'm seeing how they did, and I'm like, well, let's pull these kids that got 40% and let's kind of try to figure out why did they get 40% let me look at your notes. Oh, you didn't take notes. That might explain it, you know? Like, let's re watch that video and take notes this time. Or maybe there's a major misconception of some kind, but it's like the grouping has become so intentional. So it's not like, I'm seeing every kid for 20 minutes, because every kid needs 20 minutes. Is like, you know, some kids don't need to see me. They got it, and they're okay with that, you know, they'll come and see me when they need me, um, but some kids might need to sit with me for the entire day. And you know, that's just where it is. That's where we are, right? 

Toni Rose Deanon  53:13  
And that's also okay. 

Drea Siford  53:14  
And, yeah, exactly, um, but I feel like everybody's getting what they need.

Toni Rose Deanon  53:21  
Yeah, I mean, I like, I like what you said about being intentional with it, right? There's a lot more intentionality behind it, and it's also data informed. Because you're looking at the mastery checks, you're looking at, you know what? They're struggling with, their misconception that you can do it right away. It's not like, oh, last week we did this thing, and now I'm gonna pull y'all in, because I know that that's typically what happens, right? It's like a very delayed process of pulling students out based on, like, the mastery checks or the formative assessments that they did not master. 

Drea Siford  53:47  
Yeah. This is a lot of catching misconceptions in the moment of misconception and correcting it right away. And then, of course, there's, you know, the mastery check, which is like, I'm not going to help you with this, and that's a true check. But even then again, I feel like this is where I probably take the most liberty with the model of, like, I am teaching language arts and within ELA standard, it's like, again, I have to look at this student, right? Like, what is the progression for this student of understanding how to find main idea, right? Like it, that's not going to look the same for every kid in my class. And so with mastery on something like that, I'm also a little bit fluid. And kids aren't getting the same. You know, those mastery checks might be very differentiated depending upon, you know, who's who's taking them sometimes, like, in their directions on the website, the mastery check will be like, come talk to miss Seaford. And you know, I've got four different piles on my desk, and each kid are getting very different versions of the same mastery check,

Toni Rose Deanon  54:55  
yeah. And again, I just love to point out the progress. In part, right? Of the skills, like, there is a progression to every skill that we're learning in the classroom, and so it's really good to to focus on that progression. And I was also going to say to have had conversations with educators too, of our mastery checks, right? If we're focusing on theme or the central idea, right? We just want to know if the student can actually identify that central I you know that that main idea, that theme, and not focus on if they can write a full sentence that says what the theme is, right, right, right.

Drea Siford  55:29  
For some students, yes, I need them to write that sentence. And for some students, it might be like, here's three choices, which one, and I'm leaving those three choices to them, and then they're pointing to the one that it is because, again, I have students that have just arrived into this country, to students who have grown up here their entire lives and only know one language, you know. So it's a big variety in my classroom. 

Toni Rose Deanon  55:56  
Yes. I mean, like you said, very much, individualized, personalized, like all of these things, so students can feel successful in their learning journey. And that's really what we want for our students to feel they want to feel good. I want to feel like they belong, and they want to feel like they can actually do the stuff that you're asking them to do. So I love that. Okay, Drea, what do you hope to see in the future and what goals do you have? It can be modern classrooms, or it doesn't have to be modern classrooms, whatever you'd like to share with us. 

Drea Siford  56:22  
Oh, man, I would like, I mean, I know that there's been a big push in Baltimore, you know, for this model, and that there's been the offering of, like, the scholarship. So that's been nice to see. I would love to get a group some year that have already had exposure and see how that would be different, you know, like, so I guess I would love to see like, more teachers implement the model and like, I don't know. I just want to see like my students be successful, you know, and go they're having success with the model in my classroom. So I'd like to see them go on and experience it in other classrooms. I know we have doctors, you know, Dr S here, who's also doing it, but such a good question. I don't know. I just want to see my students go on to be successful and like feel joy in learning. That's it. That's my whole why. 

Toni Rose Deanon  57:21  
So I have, I have a follow up question to that, is your fifth grade team departmentalized as well? Yes, yeah. Is the fifth grade ELA teacher implementing the model?

Drea Siford  57:31  
I mean, she, yeah, she took the she took that. Well, I don't know if she's implementing the model, but she took, I know she did the mentorship.

Toni Rose Deanon  57:38  
Okay, I'd be curious for happy doing parts of it? Yeah, I'd be curious to see if y'all can like, collaborate and, like, have conversations or story time of just, like, how, how is it different? How is it the same? What are some challenges, celebrations, all of that good stuff. 

Drea Siford  57:52  
Yeah, yeah, that's a good idea. 

Toni Rose Deanon  57:54  
Okay, no. Thank you for sharing that. I'm excited about this potential of you, like, going and looping with the kids, hopefully, one, one year. And so, yes, some year does it have to be the next year? But one, one of these, one, one of these upcoming school years,

Drea Siford  58:11  
I think it would be interesting. 

Toni Rose Deanon  58:13  
Yes, I completely agree with you. And then I'd have to get you back on the podcast to talk about that experience, because I think that's like another great perspective, right? So Drea, I know that our listeners gonna be like, Wow. Drea is just spitting out all the cool things, right? How can our listeners connect with you? 

Drea Siford  58:30  
Um, they can email me, yeah, to add a, m, s, i, f, O, R, D, at, b, c, p, s, dot, k1, two.md.us,

Toni Rose Deanon  58:43  
beautiful and listeners, you don't have to write that down. We'll have it in the show notes so you can just copy and paste. But thank you so much for sharing your experience and expertise with us. Drea, this was just so much fun and so lovely. So thank you. Thank you.

Drea Siford  58:56  
Yeah, and I think, like you said on the on the thing that I filled out, like to share a resource or something I shared, just like, a picture of the game board. 

Toni Rose Deanon  59:07  
Yes, I was gonna ask too Drea to be like, Hey, can we have a picture of your game board? But you're way ahead of me. I love elementary school teachers. Y'all are fire.

Drea Siford  59:15  
So, like, just in case anyone, like, really likes that and stuff like, what I do is I create the game board in Canva, and then each each square is linked to the directions in the class website. And so then that game board in Canva is embedded in the website. So when the kids go into my class website, they just click on Like where they are, and it takes them straight to the directions. But then to put it on my smart board, I just download a copy of a picture of the Canva game board, and then I embed that on classroom screen and add the. Name tags so that the name tags can move.

Toni Rose Deanon  1:00:03  
Oh, that's amazing. And that was literally the first thing that I saw, too, when I came into your classroom, was your game board. And I was like, Oh, yes, love this. This is so great. Well, thank you. I didn't even have to ask so listeners, you'll be able to access that in the show notes as well. Thank you. Just thank you for that, Jay. I appreciate you. Listeners, remember, you can always email us at podcast at modern classrooms.org, and you can find the show notes for this episode of podcast.modernclassrooms.org/213, we'll have this episodes video uploaded on modern classrooms YouTube channel and transcript uploaded by Friday, so be sure to check back to access those. Also, we are asking our listeners to leave a review of this podcast has been helpful and supporting you to create a human centered learning environment through a blended, self paced mastery based model, it does help other folks find it. Thank you all for listening. Have a great week, and we'll be back next Sunday.

Zach Diamond  1:00:55  
Thank you so much for listening. You can find links to topics and tools we discussed in our show notes for this episode, and remember, you can learn more about our work www.modernclassrooms.org and you can learn the essentials of our model through our free course learn.modernclassrooms.org you can follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram at modern classproj, that's P, R, O, J, we are so appreciative of all you do for students in schools. Have a great week, and we'll be back next Sunday with another episode of the modern classrooms project podcast.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai