Zach Diamond  0:00  
Hey there, listeners. This is Zach. Welcome to Episode 190 of the modern classrooms project podcast. We have something a little different for you this week. This week's episode is a webinar that Toni Rose hosted earlier this month, called fostering inclusivity. Navigating special education in students centered classrooms. Toni Rose was joined by an incredible panel, and they talk about effective strategies for differentiated instruction, collaboration for success, cultivating a sensory smart classroom and fostering social emotional learning. I'm also going to link the actual webinar itself in the show notes, so you're welcome to check that out as well. Happy listening, I hope you enjoy.

Welcome to the modern classrooms project podcast. Each week, we bring you discussions with educators on how they use blended, self paced and mastery based learning to better serve their students. We believe teachers learn best from each other. So this is our way of lifting up the voices of leaders and innovators in our community. This is the modern classrooms project podcast.

Toni Rose Deanon  1:09  
Hi, everyone, welcome, welcome. We are in this space to learn a little bit more about fostering inclusivity navigating special education and student centered classrooms. So thank you, and welcome. And we're just so appreciative of you spending some time with us for the next 59 minutes. So again, who we are in this space together, because you want to learn more about how to foster inclusivity, especially with special education, right? And so how do we create eight student centered classrooms for our students who may have some learning disabilities or any kind of disability students with 504s with IEPs, all of the above, right. So hopefully, in this panel of teachers that I have, you'll get, you know, at least a little bit of a takeaway, maybe one or two or maybe multiple takeaways so that you can continue expanding your brain and then also creating this community so we can continue to have these hard, challenging conversations, right. And so with that being said, I am so so so so, so excited to have our panels panelists here today. And these are three rockstar special education educators that I've had the pleasure of getting to know through modern classroom. And so with that being said, Mark, we'll start with you introduce yourself, say whatever it is that you want to say about yourself. We'll go to Maddie and then Cassie. 

Mark Pederson  2:34  
Hi, Mark Patterson here, I had the pleasure of working with my classroom and as a special ed teacher for 13 years, passionately amplifying student voice and making learning accessible for all of our students. I've had the pleasure of being a department chair to and really advocating for staff and students. So totally excited to come and talk to you. 

Maddie Richer  2:56  
Hi, I'm Maddie. I have bounced around quite a bit over the last 10 years from public to charter to private to back to public schools. But I am a special education teacher. I've worked with co teaching and pullout services and learning specialists. And I'm currently working as a horizon teacher in New York City, where I work in an eight to one to one setting of neurodivergent ninth graders with a range of emotional and academic needs.

Cassie Fontaine  3:29  
I am Cassie I have been a special education teacher for 18 years. And I have worked in the public and private sectors I currently teach in a language based program. So my students just have difficulty comprehending the curriculum and I'm there to kind of support them through what are some pretty rigorous expectations for high schoolers. And you know, modern classrooms has been amazing in helping me reach everyone's needs. I love it so much that I am mentoring others and really excited to just spread the word and just help educators be able to feel confident in their classrooms again, as I love all of the expertise on this panel. 

Toni Rose Deanon  4:15  
And so Hey y'all, I'm TR they them pronouns. I do community engagement. I am a former English middle school teacher 10 years an instructional coach after so I would be what is considered a gen ed teacher, but I was also SPED certified and TESOL certified so as you can tell, I mean, you probably can assume that I had all the kids in my classroom right and so I'm just really again excited to be in this space to pick your brains and also to expand my brain because it has been a while since I've worked with with special education. So here we are, again, thank you all for being here. Okay, so even before that before we get started y'all because we are human beings here, what is currently bringing y'all joy, and we can start with Maddie

Maddie Richer  5:01  
I think right now what's bringing me joy is like the weather is finally starting to be warm for like more than two days in a row and that I'm noticing more than ever this year just like increases my joy by like 50%. 

Toni Rose Deanon  5:17  
I love that it's really like, you know, this summer, summer is coming right son is coming out, but also allergies. It's allergy season. So that's also exciting. What about you, Mark, and then Cassie?

Mark Pederson  5:30  
I hope to see the weather this weekend, go and go to the beach with my son. So that will be fun. 

Cassie Fontaine  5:37  
Yeah, I would say I mean, obviously, I'm a huge, I live in New England, in Massachusetts. So we get this sun for a couple, a couple months a year. So I'm really excited that it's presenting itself again. And with that comes a well deserved summer break. But that gives me the freedom and the time to start really tapping into the creative process. I love so much about creating my classroom for next year. So the gears are turning and the thoughts are flowing. And I can't wait to just you know, put pen to paper and start thinking about what cool stuff there'll be next year. 

Toni Rose Deanon  6:13  
I think I hear that often from educators of like, Oh, I'm so excited to just have the time to reflect, to have the time to process to write down things that went well that could have gone better. And then what I intend to do to make it that much better for myself as an educator, and as well as my learners. So thank you all for sharing that. And so let's go ahead and start with our first question. So in a student centered classroom, how do you effectively balanced the individual support required by students with IEP and 504? With the collaborative and interactive nature of group activities? And Maddie, we'll start with you, Cassie. And then Mark. 

Maddie Richer  6:53  
Sure, I love this question. I think that it's funny, the wording of this question implies that you might think that a student centered classroom would be at odds with meeting the needs of students with IEP s, but I actually think it's the opposite. A student centered classroom is what makes it possible to meet the needs of all of your students. And so for me, when you're thinking, when I'm thinking about collaboration, I'm thinking about, okay, like, just like anything else, what does each student need in order to be able to participate in a collaborative activity. So, for example, one of my currently one of my current students is selectively mute, and selectively meaning almost always, so he does not speak at all at school, I have never heard his voice. And we one of the collaborative protocols that I have in my and students that are protocols, I have my classroom and ELA classes that every day, we have what's called a teacher, let's talk where students have to have a conversation with no adults involved. And so obviously, this presents a challenge for a student who does not talk. And so what I do to support him is I have created certain material supports, where he can point to what he's thinking and what he's feeling as his way of communicating. And the other students have practiced how to include him in the conversation. And so, you know, before they're about to start the teacher, let's talk I roleplay with them. And I say, Okay, how are you going to include Jacob in this conversation? And so they can start to think of ideas and through modeling, they're learning how to be inclusive in their collaboration. So they know that when they're talking about an opinion based question, they can say, Jacob, what do you think and he can point to I agree, or I disagree with this right on his desk, or if they want to know how he's feeling he has a feelings wheel, and he could point to, I'm feeling peaceful, or I'm feeling I'm suffering, I have a headache. And through practice, because it's student centered, they can do that, even if I am sworn to silence for five minutes during the duration of a teacher's talk. So with that example in mind, to me, it's just a question of thinking, okay, like, what is the gap for the student and what? What can I give them, ideally, materially, so that I can walk away and they can use it independently so that they can be involved in whatever the collaborative activity is? 

Toni Rose Deanon  9:25  
I really liked that example Maddie, and it kind of highlights or spotlights the fact that like, collaborative doesn't necessarily mean talking. Right? It could be like, there's not a, like a physical voice coming out. But there's a way for us to collaborate by pointing like you said, or even just like typing up responses, that's still collaborative work. Because I know sometimes I have comments or questions from educators that are like, but they're not collaborating, the students are not collaborating. And it's like, Well, I think we have to also define what collaboration means because it doesn't mean all The time that students are talking, right? Like sometimes there are groups who are collaborating, and they're completely silent. But if you look at their device, or if you look at something body language, it's all coming together. So I think it's just a really nice reminder that collaboration looks and sounds and feels different for a lot of people. So thank you for just highlighting that part. Cassie, what did you have to what did you want to add on?

Cassie Fontaine  10:25  
Yeah, so I think of collaboration as an opportunity for everyone to get their needs met. And I look at it as a teacher perspective as a great opportunity for me to collect data, and kind of check in and get an idea for what kids know. So I look at this and I say, as a teacher, I have the ability to choose pairings based on what I'm trying to capture. So if I have two struggling students that I need to work with, I might pair them together. But if I have a struggling student, and a really strong student, I might challenge the struggling student to learn from someone other than an adult, because that might be unusual for them. And it gives the pier the opportunity to show me what they know, because now they're leveling up and having to explain it. So a lot of the times I will coach students in that may have a question. And someone will be like, I know, and I'm like, great, you tell them. And that's a collaboration by taking a backseat and in teaching the kids that I'm not the only teacher in the room, and that we can share ideas with each other, and planning for that really strategically.

Toni Rose Deanon  11:39  
And I think that's again, like another really great reminder for student centered learning environments, right? Of like, it's taking away this pedestal on the teacher, that the teacher is the one person who knows all and then really pushing for our students to learn how to work together to solve a problem. And then also trying to figure out how to work through differences. Because, you know, as you all know, I work with middle schoolers, they were always disagreeing. And so these are just soft skills or skills that they could utilize in the real world of how to collaborate effectively and appropriately with one another. And so I appreciate that naming to have like, you know, it's a way for me to gather data, right, and then sometimes to I really love being able to see the strengths and weaknesses of each of my students, and then you put them in a group, and then they just like, shine, right? Like they just become this like magical team, because they're working off of each other's strengths and weaknesses. And I think that in itself is such a such a powerful tool for community to happen for the the classroom to kind of get to be together, right to like, start learning how to trust each other, and to start leaning in and leaning on each other. I really love that. Thank you. What about you, Mark?

Mark Pederson  13:04  
Yeah, and from our class, really leaning in for those collaborative things of the must do parts of the assignment or things that we want all kids to kind of comprehend. So like in our classes, like having a Socratic or a whole class discussion or group discussions, front loading the kids with the objective, like be at the beginning of the lesson, so that all kids can see like on a Padlet everyone's responses so they can pull from each other's ideas, and then having for like our students that have a difficulty, talking, having sentence frames on everyone's desk, so that it's for everybody. So you're not singling out the kid that has a hard time talking or as a second language learner, you're just providing universal support. And anybody that wants to use it, it's there for them. And then, for I've had a couple of kids with anxiety that they've said, I don't want to talk, I'm like, that's great. I have a Flipgrid that you can just record your thing. It goes straight to me so that we see your collaboration. And if you want to talk or if you want me to share your voice later, and totally cool.

Toni Rose Deanon  14:16  
I like that you pointed out that there's lots of options, right? And I think that that in itself is really powerful. And like you said, it's not just for students who have IEP s and five oh fours or need extra support. It's literally for everyone, right especially like sometimes we think our neuro typicals or like our students who are way more advanced right, that they don't need these like supports, actually, their lives a little bit easier. And so why not amplify that why not make learning that much more accessible and a lot more seamless for everyone and not just for for students with IPS and fiber floors, right? And so like I really liked this concept to have um thinking of all students, right? Like, it's not necessarily just thinking of a small group of students and creating like, different things for those group of students, but it's really like looking at the whole picture of like, how can we make this a lot more accessible and inclusive for all the learners in my classroom? Okay, so beautiful. So we have question. Next question. What strategies do you use to create a classroom environment where all students, including those without IEPs feel comfortable offering support and celebrating the successes of their peers with with with IEPs and five, oh, fours. Maddie, I think you have a great answer for this.

Maddie Richer  15:43  
Okay, so one way that I do this is through routines at the beginning and the end of class and also check ins throughout. So I start every morning with a check in where students share what they're feeling and what their intention is for the day. And so when they do that, and they do that as community, then all the other students know how everyone's doing, and they know what kind of support their friends are going to need. And that's something that, you know, helps build empathy. And then throughout the year, they see me offering support to some of the kids say they're feeling and then they start to do the same as well. And at the end of every day, I end with shout outs, and rowstore, and bud. And so, during shout out, students celebrate each other by saying I want a shout out, so and so because he met his intention. And so students, regardless of what they're working on, socially, emotionally, academically, they're celebrating their peers for working on what their peers working on. Even if it's something like totally different, like I've have had students shout out their peers who are having total meltdowns, shouting them out using common strategies when this kid is put together and doing His work, but is, you know, his, his intention is about staying organized. And so when you when you have routines that foster community, the students learn how to celebrate each other, even if they're working on totally different things. Similarly, I have check in so if they're working independently, they have their instructional videos, and they are in different places we have, you know, every 20 minutes, I say, Okay, turn and talk with your buddy, share how far you got one challenge you had and how you got through it when you were stuck. And so through that, students are kind of making their thinking visible and sharing. Okay, I was stuck. But I got unstuck because I did this. And that helps other students who maybe are having the same challenge, learn from their peers, regardless of what their abilities are, or what a particular level or assignment they're working on. 

Toni Rose Deanon  17:54  
I think I think I really love this this answer Maddie because, again, there's intentionality, right. And there's also this teaching of empathy, because I feel like empathy is such a hard skill to teach. And I know that adults even struggle with it. So to create a space for students to learn how to empathize with others not sympathize, because we don't want we don't want sympathy. We want empathy, in my opinion, anyway. And so just creating the space for students to check in and be humans, right, like be human beings of pay, let's talk about what you what your needs are, socially, what your needs are emotionally, and then we'll also get to the academically need the academic needs as well, right. And so I really love this routine of like checking in the beginning, so that we can refocus, because you're coming from wherever you're coming from, there's probably a lot of distractions happening outside of the class. But when we come into the space of stay, let's get grounded and have intentions on how to navigate the next 5060 90 minutes of class. And then it's like an accountability partner thing to write of, like, oh, I said this to my friend. So now I know at the end, they're going to check in with me to make sure to see how I did for the time that we have. And again, this is what creates like the student centered learning environment to have like, there's students need to know how to manage their time wisely. They need to know how to prioritize, right, they really need to know how to communicate and collaborate with others as well. And so I really love this whole thing of like, we're going to share ideas, we're going to learn from each other. I always told my middle schoolers, like, I could say something 20 million different, like 20 million things, different ways. And you will still not understand me and then appear will say it the exact same way that I did. And you'll be like, Oh, I get it. And it's like, yeah, so you know what, let me just take myself out of the equation, and let y'all handle the conversation, the learning and just really provide this space for y'all to be messy and to take risks and to learn from each other. So I really love that Maddie, we do have a follow up question in the chat. It says how do you Emily says how do you engage non speaking or severely impaired individuals? How do they shout out and be included?

Maddie Richer  20:11  
So it's the question, how do I engage them in the routines? Like shout outs? And all? Yeah. So for, for what I do, I do a lot of models. And at the beginning, I'll say like, here are three shout outs that you can give you choose one, right to really kind of like consolidate the cognitive load that that student has to do. And then as the year goes on, I, and depending on you know, gauging how the student is doing on that particular day, I try to take away the scaffold, I might say, okay, like, here's a sentence starter now, like you fill in the rest. Again, those supports, like having a feelings wheel and saying, like, Hey, how are you feeling? And then if you're feeling this, here are some intentions that makes sense for you today. I have a, something that the occupational therapist at my school suggested that I found really helpful is she has like on a post it note, it says, stuck thinking and good. And so if a student, if one of my non speaking students is like looking frozen, and I'm not sure what's going on, I'm not sure he's about to have a meltdown. Or if he's just, you know, processing, I'll show him that post it note, and then he can tell me if he's stuck. He's thinking, or he's good. And that kind of helps me understand where he's at. And then that tells me what I need to do next. 

Toni Rose Deanon  21:35  
Yeah, this also makes me think of just like positive narration and reinforcement in the classroom, right? Especially coming from educators, of just naming the thing that's like a really positive thing. I think, as an educator, too, I would make sure, like, try to keep tabs of like, who's getting shoutouts versus who's not getting shoutouts. And then I would jump in and say like, Oh, I really want to shout this student, because I know that that student hadn't gotten a shout out, right. So as an educator, like, yes, we have this space for students to shout each other out. And there's also this this other space where there's going to be some students who feel like they haven't gotten shut out. So it's really good for us to pay attention. And then I really liked this, this thing that you said to Maddie with your OT, which, again, we have a whole team, or we hope that there's a whole team and the club and the school, right, we hope that there's a whole team and OT, a counselor, like all the things that we need, right? Just conciseness I think is really important, right? Like one word like, I'm feeling stuck, not even I'm feeling stuck, good. Or, like confused. So, so just keeping that in my two. So thank you so much, Emily, for your question. And I think it also just depends on like, what your student's abilities are, and then playing that up, right, if even if they are severely impaired there, they still have strengths. So figuring out what those strengths are so that they can showcase what it is that they need to showcase, and however that they need to do it. Right. So thank you for that question. So we're going to shift to the next question, Mark. This is all about UDL. But before we even get started with UDL, what does UDL mean, because I know sometimes. There's a lot of acronyms in education, y'all. And I know in the US there are a lot I don't know how it is outside of the US. And so let's kind of just give a terminology or a definition of UDL. Mark if if you feel comfortable. 

Mark Pederson  23:25  
Yeah. Breaking it down is like UDL universal design learning. So think of it as making learning accessible for all students in your classroom. There's two sides receptive and expressive. So like how do students get the information, and then how the students express that information or comprehension of it. For like, student centered classes, a huge part that helps with the receptive for all students is those recorded instructional videos. For like our kids with ADHD or Attention difficulties, they can stop start or if they need it fast forward, they can do two times speed. I've had kids play my videos two times B. They sound like a chipmunk, but they love it. It's hilarious. Students are processing they can slow it down they can watch it as many times as they want. And those comprehension questions embedded really helps with their engagement. So that's kind of been a thing that's helped. For like the expressive in a lot of our high school classes we're doing we're allowing choice so student choice on how they express something in a project. For summative for some mastery checks we have they can do multiple choice, oral discussion with the teacher or record it like a speech. We've had some students that writing or reading is real difficult for them but they are master paintings. They can express themselves so well. So we'll have them like record this and explanation and how it relates to the unit to show mastery and And that has been something that like we've loved, like we have drawings on our classroom that students have done from like Russian Revolution, and it's just glorious. So there's just some ways that we've kind of integrated UDL for students so that they can show mastery in like a multiplicity of things. 

Toni Rose Deanon  25:19  
Thank you so much Mark for that. So and I know the fun fact about UDL was that they it actually originated from folks who are building buildings. So to make it a little bit more accessible for anyone and everyone. And so then education was like, Oh, my gosh, that's a great idea. Let me do that, too. And so that's where UDL kind of comes in. And if I'm wrong, sorry, y'all don't quote me on that. But I'm just cackling because Mark, I was definitely a student who had ADHD, but was not diagnosed until I was 33 years old. And so really navigating this space of like, when you were saying, Oh, they listened to me to x feed. Same, like, I cannot listen to anything out just like regular normal pace. Because to me, I'm bored. Like, after two seconds of that, I'm just like, oh, no, I'm gonna look at this thing. And I'm gonna be doing this instead. And so I really love the the option of having this instructional video and accessing accessing it, however. So when I was back in the classroom, I had students who had ADHD and so they needed a lot of breaks, right. And prior to creating a self paced classroom, a student centered classroom, I had lectures, I'm sure you all had lectures to write. And so I would expect my students to sit still for 20 minutes, and listen to everything I said, because what I'm saying right now is important. And no, you cannot use the restroom. And no, you cannot do anything else that you want to do. You just need to pay attention to me. But with the videos, my students were literally like, oh, I need a break right now. And doesn't they don't interrupt anyone else, right. And it's really just creating this, like accountability for their learning. But it's also alleviating a lot of stress and anxiety of like, but I really need to go use the restroom right now. And you're telling me no, I need to go. I'm not gonna be able to focus on anything you're saying. So let me just go and then I'll pick up where I left off. Right. And so I think I really love the concept that like with the instructional video, the student is literally taking the teacher anywhere and everywhere, right? And like you said, I'm pretending that I'm listening to the video watching it. And then all of a sudden, there's a question and I'm like, Oh, snap, I wasn't paying attention. Let me rewatch go in real time. That can't happen, right? Like, when you're doing lectures, like there's no way that a student can say like, actually, you know, Miss Fontaine, can you say that again. And that is like, one of the I think, for me as an educator, anyway, so annoying of like, you're asking you to repeat myself, again, I've said it five times. And so with a video, it's really nice that students can access it at any point, if they were absent for two days for a week for whatever, they have those instructional videos already there for them, that they can actually access outside of the classroom. And so the learning continues to happen. And so when we think about UDL, it's really about how can we make learning accessible for all of our learners, no matter what life is throwing at them, they're still able to access the information. And that is, I think, is the most important thing, right? And so another thing to mark that you mentioned is the the mastery checks where students have the ability to choose how to show their mastery, right? Like, for example, right? Like, I know, for me, my students, so my students really struggled with writing. And I don't want to say they didn't master a skill because they couldn't write it properly. But if they could talk to me, and let me know and explain to me verbally, they have mastered, it's just like, I'm not actually checking for writing skills, I'm checking to see if you know, this content or this actual this other skill, right? And so I think sometimes as educators, we need to be really mindful of that as well of how we navigate these spaces of mastery checks of like, okay, if I'm asking for a theme, I'm not actually asking for you to write about a theme I'm actually asking for you to see No, do can you identify the theme? And can you give me some examples or evidence to back up your your claim, right, and so just keeping that in mind too, but thank you, thank you. Thank you. All right. So this one I know that we've had conversations about together it's just empowerment, when we think about giving students empowerment and an ad like teaching them how to advocate for themselves, right, like, how do you You empower students with IEP s and 504s to become self advocates within a student centered classroom. Because again, we're thinking about student centered classrooms, right? It's self paced, it's blended is mastery based. There's a lot of like, we're gonna relinquish control, I'm actually not going to hold your hand anymore, you're gonna have to figure this out, you have to make this you have to become a more self directed learner. And we have to disrupt the learned helplessness, right? Because again, like our students have mastered, learned helplessness. And we, as educators, have like supported and celebrated learned helplessness without even knowing that we were doing that, right. So how do we empower students? How do we get them to advocate for their needs, so that when they leave our classrooms, they can continue advocating for themselves? And it's not they don't need us to do that for them. And we'll start with Mark and Cassie.

Mark Pederson  30:57  
Some great ways in high school, we're asking freshmen, 13 year olds to become young adults by the time they get out of high school. And that's like a daunting task, especially like nowadays, but really ingrained in the students beginning unit are less than, like, goal setting. Like what I want to get great, what mastery, like how much am I willing to put forward towards this lesson? And then action steps. So if it's a unit on this linear equations, like the objective is this worth, how much am I willing to put forward Am I willing to study and those kinds of things and then holding them accountable, what they say, is a high school setting. And also, having a progress checking that the students have like, it can be a game board where they're just checking off units, or lessons that they're doing. And you can check visually where they're at, or if you have a whole class progress checking, that usually really helps to just to hold them accountable and have them own their learning, instead of me looking on their gradebook and be like, Hey, why do you have 15? missing assignments?

Toni Rose Deanon  32:09  
Yeah, it's really difficult to get what am I least favorite responses from students is Idk. So it's like, how do I create a question where they cannot say Idk? Because that those are the worst acronyms to get on any kind of like tasks that we we do, right? And so I really love this holding them accountable. And again, this is something that a lot of our students have never really experienced, if I'm going to be honest, right? Because they haven't I mean, you know, even all the policies that that are being passed, right, there's a lot of where we're just kind of pushing students through, right, where they're not really understanding the concept, but it's also like, oh, well, we don't have the proper support, or we don't have the proper guidance, or we don't really know what else to do. So we're just gonna, gonna, like, pass this kid, and just like hope to god, someone is going to help them right. And so it's different. It's different for teachers, it's different for students. And I think it's a huge struggle and the beginning a huge struggle, and you're gonna have, you're probably gonna get a lot of resistance to right and so, Cassie, yeah, what else do you want to add on?

Cassie Fontaine  33:22  
This is my favorite question, because this was my first year implementing, and man did I go through it? This was the hardest thing to conquer. And I'm not sure we've done it completely yet. But my number one answer instantly was to allow opportunities for failure. And so failure is the best way to learn. And we're so afraid to let kids fail, that they're missing out on all of the skills that come with, coping with and overcoming obstacles. And that has been true for the parents of the students as well. So not only the students getting used to failing, but the children, the the parents getting used to their children failing. And we throw around that word like it's nothing because it's not something to be afraid of. And so really teaching them to get used to hearing that word and not being afraid of it. But then, most importantly, when they fail, coming right behind and saying Great, now we get to learn how to walk through this, what are the steps to get through it, and I'm going to support you 100% of the way. And if they never fail, we can't show them how to get themselves up. And those are skills that they have to learn and we can teach them. But we have to start by letting them fail so we can teach them how to advocate and people don't traditionally advocate when things are going well. They advocate when things aren't going well. So we have to be able to contrive that situation so that we can work on it and teach skills practically that they can carry on.

Toni Rose Deanon  35:04  
I mean, Cassie, we're getting a lot of like, amen. Agree in the chat. And I'm also like, yes, yes. Yes, keep going. And I really so you said this is your first time implementing the self paced blended learning as well as a mastery based learning environment. Right. So Cassie, I'm sure that in the beginning, you failed a couple of times as well. Right. 

Cassie Fontaine  35:28  
Yeah, I mean, I think that we are in we are halfway through quarter four, and we have finally hit our stride. And the kids were mad at me. And I was mad at the kids and the parents were mad at me and I was mad at the parents. And it was a beautiful disaster. In that was a, an excellent model of what it looks like to fail, and how I'm going to teach you how to overcome it and watch me, I am making a mess right now. And we can clean it up. And we are all better for it. And my students are so much stronger. And as a special education teacher who has 20 Plus meetings a year, scheduled, nevermind the parent conferences, and all that I'm not in the classroom. And so now they're confident enough in their ability to overcome obstacles that they're not dependent on me to be there to fix it for them. And it's been life changing, just to share that perspective. But I do warn you that it was a ride. And next year, when I get new students, that will be another ride because I teach high school too. So when they come in from social promotion at the younger grades, and actually have to meet the requirements, that's a new environment. And they're like, Whoa, this is different. And there's a lot of pushback, but letting it happen and coaching them through it. It will eventually come around. 

Toni Rose Deanon  36:51  
I love that so much. And I think it's also one of the things when folks are pushing back. That means they're paying attention, right? And I think I love resistance. I welcome it, actually I crave it, because I'm like, Oh, this means you're paying attention. This means we're shaking things up at this point now, and we're making you uncomfortable. You're making me uncomfortable. And this is where learning happens. This is where growth happens. And so I appreciate you saying, Cassie and giving permission, honestly, for folks to just embrace our mistakes to embrace failure, because there's absolutely nobody is perfect. Everyone fails. Like, you're right. There's not. There shouldn't be shame that is tied to failure. But I think we're just like societal expectations, right? Like failure is not an option. And especially growing up in an Asian household failure. What is that we don't even know what that means. And so it's like one of these things of like, oh, actually, this is how we grow is when we learn from our mistakes. And I think I also want to highlight when you were talking Cassie, that it made me think about revisions. Right? How did your students feel about having time for revisions? Because I know prior to implementing this model, mice, we didn't have time to to revise anything. I was just like, do it on your own? Have fun, but now it's like, oh, no, no, no, you're going to revise because you actually can't move forward until you master this concept. So how did your students respond to revisions? Any of y'all can answer? 

Cassie Fontaine  38:36  
Oh, it was, it was not great. I'll be honest. So because I work in a self contained program, my students have some executive functioning needs. So time management is not their strong suit. And so the the self pacing part we really had to modify in the beginning, you know, just jumping in, hoping for the best. Kids failed right away. And we went through the process, and we did the revisions, and it was so much effort so fast that they stopped. And it you know, like it got way worse before it got better. And so I had to adjust to what they were telling me and take some of that management back and just kind of feed it out gently, you know, I threw it all and we're like, we're doing this and I don't know what's gonna happen. And they're like, Okay, wait, pause. Let's backpedal. And so we're kind of still figuring that out. But they are part of the conversation and I asked them constantly, do you still use this? Do you care about that? What do you think about this? And in every Do you like this type of revision? Would you rather do something else? And I'm constantly asking for their feedback, because they're the ones going through it and And if it's easier for them, it's easier for me. And so being flexible on some things and firm on others. So revisions is still current, we're still trying to figure out the sweet spot for that. And because we live in a state that has mandated testing to, so we have a timeline that's not flexible, statewide. So some, in some senses, we still don't really have a ton of time. So we pick our battles, you can make it up later, maybe that deadline is extended, it doesn't have to be right now. So just really also, as an educator, giving yourself permission to take a concept and modify it to your needs. It might not be the way it was taught to you. But if it works for you, and it's successful, then it's a win.

Yeah, I just want to say that we want to chunk for our students, but we really want to chunk for ourselves. Yeah, because sometimes we do too much. Sometimes majority of the time we do too much. So it's really nice to take a step back and say like, oh, my gosh, I did that know, that needs to be a little bit more scaffolded and chunked for me. So it's a very humbling experience. Actually, mark or Maddie Do have anything to add on. Yeah, I would love to add on to what Cassie said, because I think I experienced something similar. 

Maddie Richer  41:24  
I think when I first approached it were introduced revisions to students I had in mind, oh, they're gonna love this, like, this is a gift, I'm giving them the chance to revise, they're going to be so happy that they get to get 100 because I'm making them. And the reaction I got from many students was actually, no, you're throwing my failure in my face, I just want to move on and pretend it didn't happen. And so I had to really, again, yeah, like you said, it's humbling, I had to reassess and be like, Okay, I need to present this in a different way. And so I talked about how real writers revise a million times before they publish books, no professional writer publishes their first draft. And that's the thing we have to talk about with them a lot. And for some of them, that's still, you know, like, for some of them that feels that that helps. And for others they're like, but that I'm not a professional writer, I'm just trying to get through my day. And so, you know, sometimes revision for, like, that's where the student is at developmentally and emotionally. Instead of making them revise the same assignment, I might need to be like, Okay, we're moving on. And I'm teaching, I'm re teaching the skill, but with a different article, and with a different scaffold, and they don't necessarily know that they're revising, but I'm having them, you know, practice and a new way, if they're not emotionally ready to, like, experience the expectation of like, if you don't get it, you're gonna need to redo it. And then we work up to that as we build up their confidence. So definitely echo what Cassie said about taking what you learned and then modifying it in a way that's going to work for you and your students so that you don't end up in a power struggle over like revising one assignment. 

Toni Rose Deanon  43:20  
I really appreciate you naming the fact that like some of our kids are not emotionally prepared for it. Right? Because that there is a lot of guidance and confidence building before we get them emotionally ready. Another thing too, that I would that I was thinking you said professional writers write like they have to revise. I think for me, I'm like athletes, like athletes don't just show up that one time, they have to do all of this extra work to get to where they need to be. So I think sometimes too, I'm like, you know, when my kids who are aspiring football players, NFL or NBA, I'm just like bruh that means you have to revise and you have to practice over and over and over and over again. So if you hate doing this two times, how are you gonna do that which making baskets. And so that's just like, you know, just having those real, concrete like real conversations with folks to with our students to have just like, there's it's never just a one time thing. Actually, we actually have we actually do things multiple times before we move forward. Mark, did you have anything else that you wanted to add on? 

Mark Pederson  44:23  
What Cassie was saying is like reflecting with your students, like having them reflect on their learning, and how's it going as a class because there's been times I was like, this lesson is amazing. It's going so well. Like it's like, that was the worst thing ever. I was like, Okay, let's how should we switch it up? But yeah, having those things where, especially like in co teaching, co planning things, having the student input and voice like, guys a class in how it's delivered is like, it's cool. 

Toni Rose Deanon  44:55  
This is a great segue Mark, because now we're going to be talking about co teaching right? Because as SPED teachers, right, you, you have to work with Gen Ed teachers. So how does that work in your space where you're like, Hey, I'm implementing this like blended self paced, mastery based, like learning environment so that my students can get all of the skills, executive functioning skills, and really to just meet their needs. How do you have those conversations with Gen Ed teachers who are like, what, what are you doing? Why are you doing that?

Mark Pederson  45:28  
Yeah, it's, it's talking about, like, a lot of the gen ed teachers they come across, but we're not giving them everything they need, not giving them all the content. They're like, No, the instructional videos do. And it helps them pace at their own, like level and meets each student where they're at. But really meeting with the gen ed teachers in person and just delineating how the special ed side can help with accommodating and making it accessible for the students. And then they can demonstrate their mastery of the content, and really creating the class together or creating the lessons together. It's like, it's difficult. It's not an easy thing. 

Toni Rose Deanon  46:09  
Yeah, I mean, it's an uncomfortable space, right to invite our students in. Especially if you're an educator who's so used to doing whatever it is that you've been doing, and you don't want to change. And so Cassie, how do you like welcome or invite our Gen Ed teachers in this kind of learning? 

Cassie Fontaine  46:30  
So I was, I was thinking this earlier, when we talk about how beneficial this can, you know, reach kids, and we were talking about UDL and how it can reach everyone. And part of that is reaching their community. So the thing I love most about the instructional videos is I have students are in my self contained program, but they go upstairs with a gen ed teacher and study hall. And that teacher might need to help my student but they have no idea this the procedure, I used to teach geometric transformations, maybe they do it one way, maybe they're an English teacher, they can watch my video, which is, you know, a couple minutes long, and they can support the student, a student can go home and their parents can support them. So having a consistent lesson that can be accessed by all of the parties invested in this child's learning, helps everyone support them. And that has been something that has been I, you know, I apparent educators have come up to me in the hall and said, Your videos are great, this is awesome. I didn't know how to do that. You just taught me something. And so that is universal design, right? If a parent is like, if you just taught me something new, it wasn't even intended for you. So it's really universal. And it's that helps anyone be able to get on board. And then I really like to walk to that situation, I have to go talk to a general educator, maybe they're not following some accommodations in a plan, and I'm the one that's got to go talk to them about it. I say, Hey, these are some things I do here some strategies. Are there things? How does your classroom look? How can how do you handle? You know, kids answering questions, or how do you handle time extensions, and talk to them about the specific things that my students need in their space? And volunteer, you know, tell them some strategies and volunteer to help where I can. I really want to empower general educators to do the modifying and accommodating themselves. But I want to be the yeah, as I see in the, in the comments, the collaborator, I want to be your biggest cheerleader and helping you. Because I think of special ed, not as special just different, right? Like, every learner is unique. So we take a chunk, and we say it's special ed, but really, it's just teaching and you just got to find what they need. And if I know the student best, I can go to a general educator and I can give them those things.

Toni Rose Deanon  49:12  
We love that. Love it. Okay, so we have five minutes. So this is going to be like a quick response. We have a lot of questions, and anyone can take it. So one question from Vicki how does these strategies work for students who are nonverbal with devices or blind and autistic? 

Maddie Richer  49:30  
I guess I can handle that. Um, I so I used to work at a school with students with severe Special Needs autism and you know, augmentative communication systems, so very familiar with that. So pro, you know, whatever the response is that you would be expected for, you know, you can just modify the methodology. So, really, I like to think of each lesson I create as having components in instruction Practice and an assessment. And really, you can just add a component and modify it for that individual students need and they can still be watching the same video or they could still be using their input their output device. So there's a lot of ways to modify that middle section where they practice and the last part where they assess and they still get the same instruction.

Toni Rose Deanon  50:27  
Yeah, we actually have a couple of educators who teach blind students who utilize this model. Because if you think about instructional models, right, it's like audio. So you still have that, and there's all texts so that our students can have that as well to be like, Oh, this is the image is being shown. And then when it comes to autistic, I actually had a PD where I had a teacher who was autistic. And the model worked really well for him because it was self paced, right, it was like, Oh, I can just do this, I have to go in order, because my brain is telling me I have to go in order. So creating a Progress Tracker, where it everything is in order was like super clear for him. So again, really just getting to know your students and what their needs are, and then like tweaking it, modifying it in a way that it'll be, it'll be great for every student. Right? Okay. Thank you. How do you deal with caregivers who don't agree with some of the classroom strategies for special needs as for special needs for students with special needs? Right? So how do you how do you deal with caregivers who question everything? And I think, Cassie, you had a really good point about this too, right? Like, our caregivers are used to like, having like failure being like a shameful thing, right? And then, of course, if you have a label to their kid, everything, there's gonna be a wall up already. Right? So how do you how do you have these conversations with with caregivers who are who are resistant,

Cassie Fontaine  51:51  
it has been a, you know, I feel really confident in what I'm doing. And so I think that's number one, if you walk into a pet, parent who's questioning you, and you do not feel confident in what you're doing, that's going to show as a professional, you do know what is best in the classroom. And you may not know their child best, but you know, your student in the classroom. And so having that confidence is really big. But also, the data, you know, there is so much data behind these practices, and it doesn't lie, it tells the story, showing the evidence showing that it's working. And also trying to change the idea of special ed, that special education isn't lowering the bar, it's lifting and supporting students to meet the bar. And we're so used to just removing components or dismissing you know, you don't have to do that, don't worry about that, instead of again, overcoming those obstacles. So that can be a long term. Goal, you know, and just little by little, just kind of changing the culture and the idea and the expectations around what special education looks like. 

Maddie Richer  53:12  
So about talking to caregivers, I think, just like with anything, listen to their concerns, and then address them. So I recently had a teacher saying like, she feels like her kid would benefit from a more old school approach. Um, and I just, you know, I said, you know, like, you've you've mentioned to me before your kid, and like, he's dyslexic, it's really spelling is really hard for him, it has been for his whole life, like this model really is good for him, because he's using a device he's not writing. And he can revise as many times as he needs to. And once I framed it in terms of her concerns, she was like, Oh, that makes sense. So listen to what the concern is, and then, you know, address it. And if you're addressing the need, then I think most people are reasonable and will concede that what you're doing makes sense. 

Toni Rose Deanon  54:05  
Mark, did you want to add on before we close it all out? 

Mark Pederson  54:07  
And no, but both you guys responses were amazing is just that listening to parents, because when they have concerns, they come in, heated, if you have an empathetic ear, they are so much more receptive to what you have to say. And when you're seeing it as a professional. They respect you

Toni Rose Deanon  54:26  
great reminder, active listening skills is hard for everyone. Right? And then just feeling heard is really important, too. All right, y'all, we're right on the hour. Thank you so much. I know that there were a lot more questions, and Webb is actually going to share with us those questions and we'll respond to you all after this webinar. But we want to be mindful of time. Go do something that brings you joy. Go empower your students, all of your students, not just our students with a 504s and IEP and really create this beautiful space so that students can enjoy learning once again. And so with that, being said y'all, Mark, Cassie, Maddie, what a fun conversation. Thank you for sharing your stories and your expertise. And we really appreciate you. Bye, everyone. Thank you. Thank you.

Zach Diamond  55:17  
Thank you so much for listening. You can find links to topics and tools we discussed in our show notes for this episode. And remember, you can learn more about our work at WWW dot modern classrooms.org. And you can learn the essentials of our model through our free course at Learn dot modern classrooms.org. You can follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram at modern class proj. That's PR O J. We are so appreciative of all you do for students in schools. Have a great week and we'll be back next Sunday with another episode of the modern classrooms project podcast.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai