Zach Diamond 0:02 Music. Welcome to the modern classrooms project podcast each week, we bring you discussions with educators on how they use blended, self paced and mastery based learning to better serve their students. We believe teachers learn best from each other, so this is our way of lifting up the voices of leaders and innovators in our community. This is the modern classrooms project podcast. Toni Rose Deanon 0:25 Hello and welcome to episode 206 to the modern classrooms project podcast. My name is Toni Rose Deanon they them pronouns, a designated hype person here at modern classrooms, and I am joined today by an educator who has gone through kind of like all the spectrums, right? Like an educator, a teacher leader, a school leader, all the way up to superintendent. And so I'm just really excited to be here, to spend this time and be in the same space as Don Allen, so welcome, Don. Don Allen 0:58 Thank you. Thank you. Glad to be here today. Toni Rose Deanon 1:01 Yeah, it's, it's really so exciting to be in this space with you. And thank you. Thank you so much for saying yes to the podcast. I know that you are a huge fan of MCP. I know you and I also met, I think, in 2021 right? Don. Don Allen 1:15 I was during the pandemic, 2020 2021 yeah, yes, yes, absolutely, Toni Rose Deanon 1:20 yes. And then I just my brain was expanding every time I talked to Don and so I've just always hyped Don up as well. Whenever we have opportunities, I'm like, oh, we gotta put Don al in there. So you've been with us for a hot minute. And so before we get started, what is bringing you joy currently, Don Allen 1:37 just the summer, camping, relaxing, spending time with my middle school boys, sixth grade and eighth grade, and trying to see what's in them that I could bring into a classroom or into a school, because they're both doing really good, just being with the family during the summer. This is the first summer I've had off since 2015 and kind of I'm enjoying it. Toni Rose Deanon 2:04 Yeah, definitely needed. I'm glad that you have this summer to be with your family and be with your kids. How is it having two middle school kids at home Don Allen 2:15 the words that come out of those boys mouth? Oh my goodness, it kind of reminds me. I mean, they're nice. They don't do it in school because they're both straight A students. They're both just proficient doing really good and and the thing is, it's like just, just having them here, it kind of sets the tone and the tenor for what I should expect from a middle school because of all the slang that I learned from them and what they say. So if I go in as a administrator or as a teacher and I start using those words, the students stop, and they look at me and they go, how'd you know that just forms a better, you know, kind of relationship with whoever you're talking to. So it's fun. Toni Rose Deanon 2:55 Yeah, it definitely keeps you young, being around being around students that age. So Don are they considered Gen alpha or Gen Z? Don Allen 3:05 I think it's Gen Z because my, my 11 year old always walks around says, You can't say that to me, because I'm Gen Z and you're a boomer. I said, Oh, really. So Toni Rose Deanon 3:19 okay, got it. Got it. Yeah, I know that Gen Z years are so proud to be Gen Z ers, and I love that for them. Don Allen 3:25 Yes, yes, absolutely. Toni Rose Deanon 3:27 Oh, that's amazing. Thank you for sharing that, that part before we get into our conversation. So alright, Don tell us or the art the listeners, a little bit more about who you are and how you started your education, slash, MCP journey. Don Allen 3:40 Well, it was really by chance. I wasn't always in education. I was in corporate America for about 22 years, marketing populations in media, television, radio and print, and part of Six Sigma teams and internet marketing teams that went around the country, blah, blah, blah. It was really good. And then I met my wife in 2009 who was a professor, who is a professor at the University of Minnesota, and she goes, she would make a great teacher. And I says, really? And I'm also a veteran of the United States Army. And it just so happened I got a call about the same time we got engaged, and say, Hey, do you want to go back to school, get your Masters, and do this, this and that. I says, You know what? I was just thinking about that. Yeah, I want to go. I want to be a teacher. So I ended up going to university here locally. And, you know, Master's in teaching, a master's in education, a master's in communication, educational specialist, which is a Master's of course. And now I'm finishing my doctorate in education, but I'm also have a superintendent license, which I got 20 earned in 2023 and just to top it off, this fall, I'm taking 14 credits because I have to do the doctor's program and I add an additional principal license. So I want to have everything, so I'm doing everything. So when they look at my. License. They see everything from tier four English teacher all the way down to super or up to Superintendent. So it's a journey, partnering with different people. And what led me to the modern classroom project was their black male engagement piece that they had in 2020 and I just was searching online because I was so bored at home during the pandemic. I says, there has to be some kind of professional development I can do, because we can't go to Minnesota Department education anymore. We can't go to the school building, and boom, this pops up. So I signed up and went through the course, mentored course, with a bunch of the other guys. And I says, Wow, this is like, we need this in all of the schools in Minnesota. But back then, I was just like, a low level English teacher teaching concurrent enrollment. I would tell people about it. I get out of there. We don't want to talk to you, so I got on the phone. I remember this. I got on the phone and I called this local foundation. I says, Hey, you guys have got to get them in Minnesota, and they did something, I don't know, but they're here. You guys are everywhere. That's how that's the origin. Don't let anybody tell you different, because I was there on ground floor and put in a call, didn't write a grant, put in a call, and whatever work you guys did on your end, it worked because everybody that I talked to in the Twin Cities, public schools and suburban school district knows about the modern classroom project, even if they're using it or not using it, Toni Rose Deanon 6:30 yeah. And I know, like, you've just been such an impactful, like, just an advocate for this model, right? And I know with with with modern classroom as well, like Minneapolis. Whenever we had something doing, you know, something happening in Minneapolis, we would like, Okay, we gotta reach out to Don. We gotta reach out to Don. So it's definitely all about connections, right? So we appreciate you just being such a presence for us, and always just again, hyping up the model and speaking so positively about it. And I remember the cohort of the black male educator cohort, and I remember being so excited that we had this specifically for black male educators, because, you know, you and I have had conversations too of like, there's not enough black male educators. And so really trying to figure out, how can we continue to help support, empower and and really make make teaching sustainable, especially for black male educators. And so this is, this is really great. Thank you. I didn't Don I didn't know that you were an Army veteran. That's amazing. How did I not know that? Don Allen 7:35 Yes, yes. Back in the day, when we were just in the woods, 30 days out of a month, there was no war going on, no conflict in Seattle. Fort Lewis, it was pretty exciting. I had a wonderful time. Toni Rose Deanon 7:48 Yeah, thank you for your service, and I appreciate you. Just thank you, you know, kind of taking all of what you know from your past experiences into education and so All right, well, given your extensive experience in both academia and the public school system, right, from from being a teacher to teacher leader to school leader and then a district level leader, right? How do you see the relationship between higher education and K 12 education evolving, particularly in addressing this achievement gap? Because I know that you're always talking about this gap, right, especially with our black and brown students. So what are your thoughts? Don Allen 8:26 Well, there is a there's there's a piece that I think is missing. You have a lot of things happening here with education, and especially in like, let me give you some context. The Twin Cities, Minneapolis and St Paul actually have the worst achievement gap between black and white students. But then again, according to cerisei, this research firm, which is actually a law firm that they did the research, 40% of the dominant kids in the dominant culture cannot read either at grade level. So that becomes a problem. And so when you look at addressing the relationship between higher education and the involvement and addressing achievement gap, you have to take it from a constructivist approach, and what's missing out of the classrooms is what I call the pig mailing effect. The pigmailing effect is teacher thinks student is smart. Teacher focuses on student teach. Student learns more, student gets better grades. It's a reinforcement loop, and this is where the modern classroom project, you can set that right in the middle of that loop, with forward facing trackers, blended learning, self paced structures, mastery based grading. It goes hand in hand with the pick mailing effect, and we're missing out of that, that out of a lot of school systems, a lot of curriculum and a lot of teachers, and I'm not going to knock any teachers or anything like that, but there's a serious challenge when when you add culture and human capital and work groups inside of learning organizations. To have to have a responsibility, for example, real quickly here the school that I just left, it was in my contract. Of course, I was shocked, because we did all this testing. We did all this work. I had every one of the teachers to take the free modern classroom project course online, and they didn't have a lot of money, they still don't, but 90% of the students in K through eight were in the zero to a 10 percentile, which means that none of them were rate reading at grade level, none of them were doing math, none of them were doing science, social studies, anything. And this, because this is a systemic problem, and when you look at the the gap called achievement, educational we have the talent, it's not the children, it's the resources. And so that's kind of how I look at it, you know, in a nutshell, not to talk, I can talk about this for four hours, you know that already, and this is not a four hour long podcast, so we'll leave it at that. Toni Rose Deanon 11:05 That's so fascinating that you say it's more so the resources, right? I think I completely agree with you, even working in some of the quote, unquote worst public schools in this country, right? It's like, it's really interesting to think about how it's so easy to blame people, when in actuality it's like, no, it's a systemic issue, and it's also the lack of resources. And we have money, we have funding, we just don't know where that funds are going. So that's like a whole conversation as well, that we can have a conversation about too. And so okay, well done. I think I want to circle back to what you were saying about how you got your superintendent license, but then now you're adding 14 more credits this fall to get your principal license. I think for me, who have never had any interest in becoming a principal or superintendent, what's the difference between those two? Don Allen 12:00 Oh the money to charge the college charges. Basically, Toni Rose Deanon 12:03 okay, Don Allen 12:06 yeah, basically, here goes the deal. I'm a different kind of person, and I believe in looking at stuff, you know, from a constructivist lens, and how can I build knowledge off what's going on? And what I found out is like I have a superintendent license, it should supersede any principal job or license, and in Minnesota, you can get waivers to be a principal if you have a superintendent license. And I went to this one school district that I really liked, interviewed with them a couple times, and I'm pretty sure they were to hire me as a assistant principal, which I would have been totally cool with, but it came down to the bottom line. They says, well, we're not going to give you this opportunity because you do not have a principal's license. That really Anna says, that's all. And so I called up my school, Hamlin University, and I says, Hey, can I get a letter that says that I qualify to be a principal? They says, Hey, you got to take two classes. And all those classes are you shadowing a principal for 80 hours? And then on top of my doctorate in education classes, it comes to 14 credits, which I'm cool with, because I'll get it done quick, fast, in a hurry. I'll be licensed by February. Now, I want to know the next excuse they might have Toni Rose Deanon 13:25 that's really frustrating, and I'm sure that that's not just in Minnesota. I'm sure that happens quite often, especially when it comes to having folks of color apply for higher level positions, right? Because I often, I often hear about, like, Oh, I'm actually overqualified, but they're gonna knit. There's a nitpicking thing that's happening of like, Oh, okay. Like, well, we can't hire you because you don't have this one thing when it's like, but it doesn't make any sense. So, yeah, go ahead. Don Allen 14:02 It's not really even worse going back and forth, because you look at it and you say, Okay, I know that how the system works. I know how easy it is. And and the race card piece, it's like, I don't consider myself a victim. It just makes me work a little bit harder. And so I says, Okay, I'm gonna go get that principal license, and then come back to you next spring and see what you have to say, because now you have nothing to say, and we're gonna see what happens. So it's your biases. It's not mine at all. So, yeah, Toni Rose Deanon 14:33 yeah, I mean, and it so happened that you're also a lifelong learner, so you actually love being being able to expand your own brain and your own knowledge of like, okay, cool, that's like a barrier. I'm gonna knock down that barrier, right? I just know that, like, yeah, I just know Don that I hear time and time again from educators of color that they feel the need to have certificates, they feel the need to have all of these things so that nobody can kind. Of invalidate what their skills and assets are. And so I think, I mean, that's just a really interesting it's just interesting. Okay, so as a teacher on the front lines of education, right? Because you've had, you've had a couple of years where you're in the classroom teaching students and then someone who is also pursuing a doctorate in education. I don't know if you have a comment on this, but how do you envision the role of AI and big data shaping the future of teaching and learning? Don Allen 15:35 That's a great question Tony, and my professor wanted me to leave my dissertation and do another dissertation. And I had to make a deal. I says, okay, my first teacher take dissertation is about charter schools and how they've become successfully, successful, especially for black kids in the communities. My second part is, you know, I've been a fan of the internet when it was prodigy, and AI is very important to me, because now I want to look at AI as a tool. Because I'm an English teacher. I'm a writing teacher. I taught the University of Minnesota strategic writing for professional communication and crisis communication, and 90% of the kids are the students could not write in higher ed. So I'm thinking, I'm working out a question now for this, but how can we use AI in big data? And AI has a big role in future classrooms in the K through 12 system and also in the higher ed system, and I think it's important that we embrace AI again. I'm going to go back to the barriers when the internet first came out, schools and students of color in my neighborhood and around the country were behind. They didn't have one on one equipment, didn't know how to use the Google Suite, Google Docs or anything, and they're still today, probably three or four years behind now AI has been laid on top of us. So how do we get our students and adults up to speed using the AI I would I'd love the last time I had to sit in for this English teacher at my last gig for like, three days because he was sick or whatever. And so I told the students, I says we could play with AI. I want you guys to ask this chat GPT a question that you really want to know the answers to. I want you to be specific and ask it to write 750 words. Okay, I had 30 kids ask 30 different questions, and then I asked them second part of the lesson, would you write like that? Have you seen this type of writing before? And I said, I want you to take what chat GPT slammed out to you there and write an analysis about what would you write? What would you think? I got beautiful papers out of that, but you can incorporate it in the classroom. Of course, you have students that in higher ed. I've had like 20 papers that want to use chat or one of these AI things to write papers, and I never went down on them or just said, Hey, you can't do that. Then I said, Hey, this is really great, but it came up as AI, can you write an analysis for it rather than burning them at the college level and ruining their college career? And they were appreciative of that, and they never did it again. But yeah, I see a big role in big data, data mining AI and shaping the future of education, not only for teachers, because right now you, as you know, teachers can actually type in, give me a lesson plan for English class based on the book raising in the sun for fifth graders. And AI will spit out a 10 page lesson plan that is almost perfect, you know. So that should make it easier for teachers. And I'm all for that, just as long as you're teaching also, Toni Rose Deanon 18:59 yeah. And I'm also thinking too, because I love AI. I utilize AI all the time, especially with someone who's neurodivergent, right? Like it's really hard for me to start with a blank page. And something that I talk about with my colleagues and my supervisor is that with AI, yes, utilize it, and AI will always need human eyes on them, right? Like that, the stuff that AI produces, there's got to be a human looking through and and fact checking and making sure that it aligns with the question that it sounds, you know, like you said, like an analysis, right? And I, and I also want to say, I really love this whole concept of you being like, you know what? Like, yeah, I've had some students in higher ed who turned in work that was generated by AI. And instead of penalizing them and giving them a zero and ruining their college experience and their learning experience, I provided them an option to give me an analysis of why or how and what the AI came up with, right? And so it. Funny, Don because I'm currently reading grading for equity, because we have an MCP book club now where we're reading this book, and one of them is, like, we don't actually want to penalize kids behavior through grades, because, in that sense, we're just taking away that learning. We're telling kids, actually, you cheated. So that's a zero, and then you still don't know if that kid is able to to do the standard or the skill. You just kind of gave them an out, right, an easy way out, honestly for them, because then now they know, oh, I don't have to do that. So that's cool. I'll just cheat and go to zero and give it, you know, and call it a day. And so I really appreciate you naming this thing of like, Yeah, I mean, they cheated, and then we had a conversation about it, and they had to do extra stuff of like, hey, let's not, let's analyze this and give me kind of like an explanation, or rather, just again, like an analysis, right? And so I think, I think this is, yeah, thank you so much. It's really, really exciting. So let's talk about transitioning, because it seems like you've transitioned a lot in education, right? You've gone from a teacher to a superintendent. Now you're thinking about being a principal. There was even an opportunity to be an assistant principal, and now possibly you could be back in the classroom. And so you're very versatile. Dot, and I love this, and I think that's the beauty of education as well, too, especially for folks who love education. It's like, no problem. I'll go back in the classroom. That is a okay with me. I actually love being with the kid. Yeah, perfect. Yeah. It's like, that's, that's not, it's not a punishment. So what leadership qualities do you believe are essential for creating a positive and effective school culture, especially in like, challenging urban environments. And I think also to Don let's, let's define what urban environments are for folks who may not know Don Allen 21:50 in the hood. No, just the urban environment is just like the inner city. Any every state in the United States has an inner city with at least 33% or more African American, Hispanic, Latino, Asian population. That might not be they might be somewhere between 50 and 150% below the federal poverty line, then you might have a middle class. We have a missing middle here in this country, quite a bit. So there's people on top and there's people on bottom. And the missing middle kind of fluctuates depending on where you are and what you do and your job, et cetera, and where you live, and so the leadership qualities, the second part of that question, I think it's important to human capital in workgroup cultures is different. At every learning organization, at every school, every business, and I found it best to be a nuanced leader, which means that I'll come in, I won't come in ahead of the culture or behind the culture. I'll try to shape shift into the middle of the culture and then pull those people to me that know what's going on, like the engineer or janitor or the office manager or the sped director, uh, more so than the assistant principal or principal or the lead teachers or I want to know P I want to know people in the building that has the dirt on everybody, and not necessarily dirt, but then for you know the information you got to know who you're talking to, who you're dealing with, and when you treat the guy that cuts the grass for the school like you treat the person that's the principal or the lead teacher, the nuance piece is even more bright because also you have to look in the blind spots. I went in to a situation as a superintendent where the school was over $300,000 in debt, you know, as a favor to a friend who was the authorizer, and I told him, it says this is my first superintendent job after I got my superintendent license. And there's things I didn't learn that I know I would learn there. And so, you know the nuance looking into the blind spot, seeing what's going on. Because you want to have people say, buy in and buy in is good, but you need more of a collective determination. You need everybody on the same page, working for the same goals, you know, and you need to appreciate the small stuff, like the school had two teachers reach certification for girls learning your Grove certified teachers, which is huge in the Twin Cities. But that was something that was started before I even got in the school. So when I got there, these teachers achieved that, and I recognized it in a big way. They said, Well, you weren't here when we started. I says, I'm here when you finished, and you did it, and you're the first teachers to do it in 10 years. Thank you very much. Let's have a party. Order some cupcakes and some lemonade, whatever. And so it's just it's in very poor important in these urban environments. Now we had all black teachers, all black students, and. Uh, to understand what that culture is, what it represents to you as a leader, and to make sure that you're you're leading in a way that it's not like, well, let me just add this. I think Darth Vader was a great leader, you know, minus the strangling. I think he uplifted people, but I didn't like the strangling, but right now, education needs a central antagonist. If we look Detroit, Chicago, Minneapolis, New York, Denver, Washington, DC, Miami, Florida, Houston, Texas and many, many more cities are duplicating the results that are coming our use our normal out of a urban community, the kids aren't reading at grade level. They're not math is not at grade level. Science, of course, is not at grade level. But we keep pushing kids through, and when we push them through, we graduate functional illiterates. And I don't mean that in a negative way. I just mean that in a way that crime, the Kia boys crime, the street robberies crime, the shoplifting crime, the riots and during the protest, stealing out of stores. And we don't teach our children about war. There's no Machiavellian concept about what is good? You know, I'm not picking a side. I have yet to pick a side. I will not pick a side. But all I can say, if a student asked me, who's better between this country and this country, and my standard answer has always been, if babies are being killed on both sides, you have to determine for yourself what is good or who is good. So it's challenging in the urban environment to say the least, Toni Rose Deanon 26:45 yeah, and I think this is another thing too, of like, it's not, you know, it's really not white or black, or, like, one way or the other, right? It's just very there's a lot of layers. There's a lot of intersectionality with everything that's happening. And so I do want to just acknowledge the fact that you recognize the teachers, even though you didn't start with them. You were you were there when they finished, which I really love. And I also feel like when you're talking about leadership qualities, it's more so of like a I think for me, it's like a needs assessment, right? Like coming in there and not ultimately trying to fix everything, but just like getting in with the community and understanding the perspective, understanding the needs and the desires and the challenges that that community has, and I really love this, this whole thing that you said of you're not above the culture, below the culture. You're shape shifting into the middle of the culture. And so this is your way of just creating this collective determination, which I love, instead of buy in, because I feel like a collective we can do so much right, and and really being able to have conversations with people who don't particularly have conversations like we do, right? And so I love this concept of you having conversations with custodians, with office assistants, with really the whole, the whole thing, like just the community itself, right? It's not necessarily going straight to educators and school leaders, but also who else are part of this community that makes a huge difference, that keeps this going for for all of our students. And another thing that resonated for me as an English teacher, right? Because we're both English teachers, which I love, we got to know the audience, right? This is something that I tell my sister all the time too. Is like, I chuckle, I chuckle at her, because it's like, you got to know your audience. When you have an idea, determine how you can, again, create this, like, collective determination, as opposed to just saying, like, what it is that you want to say, and then everyone's like, No, I actually hate that idea, right? It's just really knowing your audience before you come in there with an idea that may not work for everyone because you don't know your audience, and the functional illiteracy, those are also terms that I have not heard, but it also makes a lot of sense, right? When we continue to push, push students through, or even, like, push adults through without any kind of education, without any kind of restorative I don't want to say like punishment, but just like restorative practice, of like, Hey, you messed up, and this is what we have to do to fix it, as opposed to just like, No, you're in trouble, so you're going to go to detention and then never have this like conversation or even a time to reflect, right? And so I love this whole concept to like determining for yourself what is good, what is bad. I cannot make those decisions for you. And we want to teach our students to be able to critically think and critically analyze everything that's happening in this world, in their classrooms, out and and outside of the classroom, right? Again, you're just like giving me all the words, Don This is fantastic. Don Allen 29:54 Let me insert this you look from what you just said, Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs has this piece. They're called self actualization, and we have to get kids to self actualization. And part of self actualization is that they know and understand discernment. You know what's right, what's wrong. And if you look at testing, MCAS, anything testing, we can tell that our kids are not learning discernment because they can't eliminate a multiple choice answer out of four answers in a paragraph. You know, ergo, you have 1.3% of 1000 students at a 2% rating or proficiency in science. So that's a very important piece, and I'm glad that you said that? Toni Rose Deanon 30:41 Yeah, no. Thank you so much for that. And this also brings back again, the whole mastery based concept of teaching and learning, right? Like we're not grading for effort. I know that we have students who give all of their effort and still not meeting the standards. It doesn't mean that it's unfair. It doesn't mean that we don't love those babies, but we don't want to lie to them and say, Oh, actually, we're going to give you an A, because you've given effort. And effort is subjective. It's also very biased of us to be like, Oh, this kid is, you know, giving a lot of effort, so I'm going to give them an A. And so when we think about mastery base, like teaching and learning and grading as well, it's like making sure that our students are really ready for, like, the real world out there, that's essentially what we want them to do. We're not going to lie to them and say, Oh, because you gave your effort or because you showed up every day, you have mastered this skill, and it's like, that's not how the real world works. Actually, we don't want to lie to them in the classroom and say, You know what, you showed up, you participated and you gave effort, full effort. So we're going to give you an A and then they still don't understand the concept. And this is, again, just kind of like this gap that continues to widen. Because I think we as humans, you know, want to be fair through unfair practices. Does that make sense? What I'm saying Don Allen 31:57 that makes that makes a lot of sense. I stopped working in summer school credit recovery. Because what you just said about the effort, it wasn't about learning. Oh, they showed up every day. They did the boiler plate, 12345, the work is, uh, but they showed up. Okay. And so instead of that F, going to make it an A, because we do standard based grading, and they hit all the marks. And I push back against that so more. I said, so much. I said, you could use this summer. Let them show up. But let's give them, let's give them the full banquet of an ELA class, of a math class, of a chemistry class, or whatever they need to graduate. And let's do it instead of them just hitting the marks for this credit recovery. But yeah, the effort grading is like and the teachers, you know, I've saw teachers in that setting, they sit back all day, give them packet. Once they turn that packet in, they turn it in, it's not even really graded or scored, so it's crazy. So you should do school a lot differently. Toni Rose Deanon 33:03 Yes, I completely, completely agree with you, and that's what I'm hoping to kind of shift with, like modern classroom, right? Of course, like our model, does not fix all the problems, it just creates other solutions that are better for students to be able to really enjoy their learning experiences. So and then another, you know, one thing that I thought about too, Don is this coercion and compliance, right? And in education, it's like, okay, well, you know what, if you participate, or if you do this extra credit, you'll get a passing grade. That's coercion. That's like getting students to comply. And again, we don't. Our students are brilliant. Our students will know how to do school. They're not actually going to embrace learning, especially when it comes to doing all of that right and and another thing to Don when you were talking about, you know, the summer credits, you know, more students are getting the credits in the summer, I was thinking, well, if they had, you know, a modern classroom, classroom in there. Like, for example, if they failed ELA right, and then they had a teacher who was implementing our model, instead of creating packets, they can just go back to the LMS and go through the lessons that they didn't do well on bingo, right? Like, be able to reassess, redo all of the things that they missed out on for that school year. So then the teachers aren't really stressed in the summer of creating packets. Of me, like, it's just meaningless packets. Yeah, I hate packet work as well. It's, like, my least favorite, but like, actually making it more meaningful. Of like, this is what we learned in school and during the school year. So you didn't get it during the school year, so now you won't have to do it in the summer. So it's again, no easy way out, right? Like no, we're going to put this in front of you again and give you other opportunities to to have a better understanding of what we're learning in class, so that you can actually be ready for next school year Don Allen 34:55 or to graduate with the credits that you missed out for playing around in school and not doing anything. The first place, and it's not your fault. We get Toni Rose Deanon 35:01 it right, right, right. Oh, this is such a beautiful like, it's just all aligning beautifully. Zach Diamond 35:11 Hey there, listeners. This is Zach dropping in with some learning opportunities and announcements for the week of September 15. Our Back to School toolkit is out and ready for you for this year, we focused on communicating with caregivers and stakeholders all about blended self paced and mastery based learning. Have you always wanted a community to read books with? We're hosting a book club with screenpal and Kami starting at the end of this month, and that's September of 2024 the community has chosen to read UDL and blended learning by Katie Novak and Catelyn Tucker. Join us in this 10 week community of practice to learn with and from educators across the country. Receive premium access to both screenpal and Kami and deepen your understanding of UDL and blended learning. Finally, want to learn more about how to use AI to create self paced lessons for you join us in this 30 minute info webinar with Teach flows on Tuesday, September 17, at 6pm Eastern. Registration links are in the show notes, but for now, let's get back into it with Toni Rose and Don. Toni Rose Deanon 36:17 Okay, so, so Don, how has modern classroom like, supported empowered or impacted your journey? Because I know that I often get text messages from you and Facebook messages of like, all the cool things that you're doing with all of your classes in the schools that you're working in, the districts that you're working at. So yeah, I'd love to hear more about how we we can support you, or how we've supported you in the past. Don Allen 36:41 Well, the leadership cohort that we just got done with in June was really wonderful because I got a chance to intermingle with a lot of folks, some folks I met out of town last year, and it was really cool. But the thing is, you know, you said something about that work during the school year that you've done with the minor in classroom project, bringing it into the summer school piece. I wrote this piece called it's called Recipe for Two characters, and the student would get together and he, he or she would pick one of 10 conversational pieces. Like you get stuck in the elevator with another person for 30 minutes. What's that conversation look like? You've met someone that you haven't seen in 20 or you've run into one again you haven't seen in 20 years that you thought was missing, or you get into a fender bender in downtown Minneapolis or St Paul, wherever you live, what is and with two people, what did the conversation look like? So I recorded this as a modern classroom where the PDF had the link that said, hey, click here first for the introduction to the to the lesson. Click here for me to read the whole lesson to you while you file along. Click here to listen to me talk about the questions, and click here for the exemplar of how this would read out the actual typed document in the format. So I had an opportunity to bring that into a summer school program. The teacher says, You're crazy. Why are you doing that? Why aren't you using the packets? I said, because this is way more fun. And I had we had a behavior problem there, and the kids used to love to run in, put the headphones in to see what kind of crazy video I made for that morning, and always because I have the Star Trek background, Captain Kirk Scott McCoy, all these people thing with a Rambo, a thing with Deadpool. They were loving it. And so the modern classroom universe has modern classroom project universe, as I call it, has supported me and given me tools that I could use, or either say to a teacher that has never known anything about the modern classroom project to say, hey, they have a free course, and I see you kind of stressing out a little bit. Why don't you go take the free course and see if you can adopt that, some of that into your and all I hear is like, Oh, I love doing the videos, or I love doing this way. I love like in my when I worked over here at a charter school as a lead English teacher or the middle school lead teacher, actually, I took pictures. I learned this from my classroom project. I took pictures, face shots, of all my classes. So I had a board with 30 kids for that class of the board with 30 kids just their mugs, just sitting there. Then I put the dates. I said, every day you come to school, I want you to go grab your face and stick it on that day. It's just a student facing tracker. It didn't wasn't about any assignments. They had really terrible attendance, and says, if you if you guys get down here, we're going to have this great get together here at the end of the at the end of the month. So students came in. I had one student who was suspended for fighting who actually had his mom to bring him up to the school and say, I'm here. But I just. Order to I'm not here, but I need to move my face over to this day I got suspended, but I want to see that I'm here and I'll be back tomorrow. Cool, you know. And just the engagement that the modern classroom project let you have as a teacher, especially if you're a creative teacher, you could roll with this on any level. I did this at the I used the model at the University of Minnesota. I told my university I'm at now getting my doctorates. I says, You guys have to teach us teach this in your master's, in teaching courses, you shouldn't let another teacher walk out of this MIT program without understanding the modern classroom project. Of course, I'm a little bit abrasive with my push with these guys, because I've been there for so long, and they kind of look at me like, oh, go away. It's him again. But there's opportunities, and if you miss these opportunities now, they're going to come back around. You're going to jump on board, just like St Paul Public Schools. When I worked there, they didn't want to hear me talking about modern classroom project at all. I talked to the superintendent, principals, assistant superintendents. I says, Hey, we should be doing that two years after I leave. There's 150 teachers getting trained on it. Oops, yeah, I told you, you know, and, and you know, other places that I've talked to that kind of, Nah, we're not going to do that. But that's okay, because that's how evolution happens. It happens you know, someone, usually someone that is not really part of the mainstream comes in and says, Hey, let's do this. It's not a good idea, and you have to sit back and make them think it's their idea. So when you do that, this is what you get. But yeah, it just it's really fun to be a part of this. I always feel connected to it, and I talk about it all the time. I even used it in the interview last week. And you should have saw draws drop to the table like he's a genius. He said, blended learning, self paced structures and mastery based grading. We have never heard that before. It's like, oh my, they were violent to me. I thought they were giving me an offering for church. I'm like, oh wow. This is beautiful hallelujah and you know, but it's like, if they don't know, that's an opportunity for me to say, hey, why don't you go check it out. It's not free, but you should get everybody in the school of district to do this, because it's what will work, especially if you're starting like the micro schools are talking about now and these other things, you need to start off with this, because just basically the way education is going, it's going to implode on ourselves, on itself, especially here in the Twin Cities, I expect in the next 15 months. And we can't keep putting out these kids that don't know anything. And I'll close on this. I went to the McDonald's here, close by my house, and I knew there was a bunch of high school kids working there, and I just wanted to test, test their acumen. So I walked up. This is gonna help you, sir. I says I would like a hamburger with cheese if you rung up a hamburger and rung up extra cheese instead of just writing, typing the cheeseburger, hit the cheeseburger button. I wasn't mad, but that was my test. That was like my litmus test to see, okay, are they learning in school? This person's in the 10th grade? Maybe that self actualization, that that discernment is not working. But anyway, getting back to my point, I think that the why know that the modern classroom project has given me tons of resources. I have access to, things that like when I if, if I decide to be a teacher, a dean or principal or superintendent, again, there's stuff right now online that I can access that will make me be better than everyone else around me. Thank you very much. Toni Rose Deanon 43:46 Yeah, I love that so much. Don and I know that we tend to lean, lean on you for for a good amount, actually, especially for the leadership cohort, because I think what makes you that much more amazing is the fact that you were a teacher and you implemented this model, and then you became a school leader, and then you continue to utilize this model, and whatever position that you take, that you that you take, right? And I think that that's just such a beautiful thing. And I also love that when you were talking about how you use the model in the summer, right, you provided those options for your students, and you provided accessibility as well, right? Really like thinking outside the box for you anyway, or maybe not even thinking outside of the box. He was like, How can I make this simple for my students, and how can I make this more engaging and more meaningful? And so I really love this whole concept that you talk about, like as create. Like teachers are creatives, right? Like we are able to create and be creative. And so when we're given the permission and the autonomy to do so, we can do some really wonderful things. And I love, love, love, love, love, that you just created a student tracker that's specifically for attendance because you knew that attendance was very much a challenging thing at your. School. And I love that. I mean, like to have a student come in with their mom, just so that they could be like, That's so cool. That's so cool. Don Allen 45:07 He was suspended. He was suspended, okay, but he came, it blew me away. I said, really. So that just made me know that it does work. It does get in their heads. So, Toni Rose Deanon 45:18 yeah, that's That's amazing. And also, again, you're just, like, expanding my brain. I worked at McDonald's for like, eight years when I was in high school and then college as well. And I chuckled when you were like, I want a hamburger with cheese, and I know, and you're right. Like, that, that piece of skill, right? Of like, oh, well, okay, cool. But would you prefer, like, a cheeseburger, because it would save you this amount of money or whatever, right? Yeah, exactly. And, but that was what I would always do when I was in McDonald's. Like, I was all about saving people money also, just like, here's, here's a hack. How about you do this, this and this, and so, yeah, that's, that's such an interesting point too. Don that's so interesting that, like, hey, I want this thing, and you're just taking it as is, and not even, like, criticizing or analyzing or just being like, Oh, actually, there's like, a better way to do that. Because, again, like you said, discernment, right, the self actualization, and then also just being able to, like, actually, know, like, here's another option for you. Oh my gosh. What a skill, what a skill. And how difficult is that skill? It really is challenging Don Allen 46:27 with technology. Just quickly, your technology has taken the cell phone has removed. When I was I don't know about you, but when I was a kid, we didn't have cell phones or anything like that, and that space that teachers and educators need to navigate, that discernment, that that that all that stuff is taken away by the technology piece. That's why I was glad that last school I was in, there was no cell phones in any of the classrooms. We got a little bit done, not a lot, not a lot to move the narrow arrow. But it was okay. And so rather than me at 14 having 80 telephone numbers memorized as my aunts, my cousins, my uncles on a rotary dial. Okay, that just builds. You know, Hammond talks about Serotonins. They talk, she talks about dopamines. And then, you know, in learning lessons, there's Ignite, chunk, chew and review and all that stuff. It's just not happening with our kids today until we implement it and put it back in the classroom. And that's another thing I just want to say in closing, on the modern classroom project, I can take other models for teaching that stimulate the brain, which is the most important thing when you're dealing especially with middle schoolers who are in the middle of their adolescence, they're getting pimples. They're like, whoo. Hormones are going crazy. They're running into walls. And you're like, sit down. What are you doing? You know, yeah, she doesn't like you anyway, be quiet. And so you're talking to them, you're trying to get them to just focus. But you could take other models and set them on top, you know, modern classroom project is the foundation, so I'm going to use that, but I might grab Hammond's model that says, do a lesson that says, Ignite. Chunk, chew and review. Ignite. What's the lesson about? I'm record that video. Chunk. These are the things you have to read and watch, because not every kid is going to learn by reading. Okay? Review. What did Mr. Allen just show you or tell you? What did you just read? Uh, in night, chunk chew and, oh, I forgot you chew it up, all the information, and then review. Let's go onward. Let's do a formal assessment, a formative assessment, which is whatever you want them to do, the exit to the exit, ticket to a short paragraph essay or just to have a conversation. So, yeah, it's a wonderful thing to do and wonderful thing to have. And I'm appreciative 100% Toni Rose Deanon 48:50 Yeah, I hear that again as well. Don from multiple educators of you know, saying like, Oh my gosh, modern classroom allows me to do building thinking classrooms. Modern classrooms allows me to do UDL. It allows me to do, like, all of these things that that, that educators have always wanted to do, and just like, didn't know how. So I'm really glad to hear that from our community as well. And so, okay, Don I have a question, and I know I say this to you all the time, is like, wow, you do a lot. How do you balance your personal and professional development? And what advice would you give to educators seeking to pursue further education? Because you've done a lot full time teaching and doing all of these things, and you have a family and so and you're doing all of these like personal pursuits as well. How do you balance all of that? And what's your advice? Don Allen 49:40 Well, time management is a learned behavior, and you as an individual have to understand what's important to you, not what's important to everybody. So that meant I cut out 80% of my friends. Okay? People that I thought were my friends, which gave me three to six hours a week extra. Then I says, Okay, I'm going to focus on my family and my two my two boys and my wife, which says we have a machine going around the house and and that worked out great, but it's just the time management. I know that I have assignments that I have to do. I know that I'm doing these degrees, these classes, how I'm going to do that, and that's why I try to also relate to my students about homework. I didn't do it. I didn't have time. No, that's not true. You have a lot of time. Think about the time when you're just sitting on the bed looking out the window, or you might go for a walk. No, going for walks are great. But if you have something to do, maybe do it. And my satisfaction is finishing and then doing what I want to do. So if, like, I have assignments coming up for the end of August and the beginning of September for the Doctorate in Education Program and the principal track, and I've basically done them, so I have to wait till the first class meeting and do the reviews. It's just a matter of time management and sitting back and knowing when you need a break, and that break is not necessarily calling and saying, I'm not going to school today, I'm not going to be coming to class or I'm not going to do that break is more of a mental break and how you think. And I love to read, so I'm engulfed in four books right now that bring me pleasure and relaxation, and with the white noise in the background, I'm doing great. Toni Rose Deanon 51:33 So yeah, and I gotta ask, Don, what are you reading? Don Allen 51:37 I am reading Peter Block Community, one of the best books about building community, like the modern classroom, has this really good piece on building community. I don't even think they've even read this book, the people that do it, but the one of the most important parts of community is the invitation. Modern classroom project is great about invitations. Once you've locked in, they'll send you 800 million emails, not really, but hey, this is what we're doing. This is what we're this is what we're doing over here. Do you want to do it? This is the times, the invitation, and then the community building I'm also reading falls No, it's actually faz. Not faz knows constructivism. How do you build knowledge? How do you build knowledge? Linguistics, for writers, I'm not going to get into that, because we'll be talking all day, and the last one is the best we could do. And also, one more book I don't have over here. It's downstairs. I'm not going to run and get it. It's, it's called, it's by, uh, what's his name? It's called. I want learn from you. Like it's causal, if I'm not mistaken, it talks about kids in urban school settings that just see the teacher. It might be a white teacher, it might be a blue teacher, whatever. But I don't like you. I don't like school. We don't speak academic language at home, and I don't want to learn from you, and it talks about those experiences he had in New York and other places, and how to overcome that. But really good book. But yeah, that's what I'm reading. Toni Rose Deanon 53:10 This is, this is amazing. I also not you calling us out on all of our emails. We're working on it, done. We're working on it. Don Allen 53:16 I don't have a problem with it, because I love I had a period where I wasn't getting emails, but I could always count on an email from modern classroom projects. And that's what, that's what kind of helped me through a really serious phase, you know. And I appreciate that. I'm saying, keep them coming. If I choose to do something, you know, I will jump on like the what is it? The top rated educator piece that you have distinguished. I get emails for that all the time, and I'm gonna do it. It's just that the timing is not ready yet, and I've been getting them since 2020 and I save them in a file. I'm not gonna go count them, but there's a lot in there, and I'm gonna do it eventually. Keep sending them out. Don't stop because I said this. Toni Rose Deanon 54:02 No, no, it's okay. I know it's just something that, you know, when we're thinking about building community, like there are folks like you who don't mind the emails, but then there are also folks who are like, Oh my gosh, way too many emails, right? So we're really trying to be responsive to our community. And so thank you for sharing what you're reading, and Those all sound fantastic, so listeners will put that in the show notes as well, in case you want to just jump into those, those reads as well. And so, okay, well done. How can our listeners connect with you? Because I'm sure that they'll be asking, Don Allen 54:32 oh, wow, I don't want any calls. No. Just kidding. I have a blog, and I'll give you the the address here when we get done here, or whatever. It's called Journal of a black teacher. And I put a lot of things I'm thinking about up there. I might share them on LinkedIn or Facebook, and then I might not, but it's just the way that I see education through my eyes as a nuanced leader and someone that really looks. To the blind spots that is sometimes a central antagonist and disrupts the status quo, because it needs to be disrupted. And I would love for people to follow that right now. It's, I have, I'm following it, and my other account is following it. So it's, I'm two people following the account. But that does, that's done purposely, because it's basically for me, for my research, from what I'm thinking, and I have stories up there that I think anybody could relate with in the country. And I wrote for the Independent Business News Network for over 13 years about education, and mostly politics and education. And this is kind of a spin off from the Independent Business News Network, where it's just, I'm staying in education, I'm speaking fact, and I'm not leaning to the left or to the right, and I'm talking about things that concern people Toni Rose Deanon 55:51 I love, that I love that. Yeah, definitely share that with us. So we'll put it in the show notes. Our listeners can read through your perspective. So I'm really excited about that. Well, Don thank you so much for sharing your experience and expertise with us. I just absolutely love being in the same virtual space I know you and I have never met in person, which is wild to me, and I feel like this conversation was long overdue. So again, just thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And listeners, remember, you can always email us at podcast at modern classrooms.org and you can find the show notes for this episode of podcast at modern classrooms.org/ 206, we'll have this episode's video uploaded on modern classrooms YouTube channel and transcript uploaded by Friday. So be sure to check back to access those. Also, we are asking your listeners to leave a review of this podcast has been helpful in supporting you to create a human, centered learning environment through a blended, self paced, mastery based model, it does help other folks find it. Thank you all for listening. Have a great week, and we'll be back next Sunday. Don you are the goat per use. Thank you for expanding my brain. Don Allen 56:56 Thank you. Bye. Zach Diamond 57:02 Music. Thank you so much for listening. You can find links to topics and tools we discussed in our show notes for this episode, and remember. You can learn more about our work at www.modernclassrooms.org and you can learn the essentials of our model through our free course at learn.modernclassrooms.org you can follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram at modern classproj, that's P, R, O, J, we are so appreciative of all you do for students in schools. Have a great week, and we'll be back next Sunday with another episode of the modern classrooms project podcast.