Zach Diamond  0:00  
Music. Welcome to the modern classrooms project podcast each week, we bring you discussions with educators on how they use blended, self paced and mastery based learning to better serve their students. We believe teachers learn best from each other, so this is our way of lifting up the voices of leaders and innovators in our community. This is the modern classrooms project podcast.

Toni Rose Deanon  0:25  
Hello and welcome to episode 204, of the modern classrooms project podcast. My name is Toni Rose Deanon they them pronouns, a designated hype person here at MCP, and I am joined by Sam, an elementary teacher, going into her 15th school year, she's taught first grade, served, served as an ESOL teacher, and is currently teaching fourth grade, all subjects. Welcome, Sam, hi. It's so exciting to be in this space with you. And thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for saying yes to the podcast. I feel like this conversation is long overdue, because you've been with us for so long, and so before we even dive into that conversation, what is bringing you joy currently?

Sam Ortiz Whitelaw  1:12  
Oh, that's a good question. Um, you know, right now my daughter, she's three and a half, going on 13, so just the sass and and seeing myself in her, but it's awesome. I get to spend a lot of time with her in the summer, so that's lots of joy.

Toni Rose Deanon  1:30  
Oh, I love that so much. Kids are amazing. It's funny because we were just literally talking about how, you know what, I have dogs to remind me that I don't need kids right now. All right. Well, with that being said, Tell us more about who you are and how you started your MCP journey.

Sam Ortiz Whitelaw  1:50  
Yeah, so, oh gosh, I'm originally from New York. I went to college in Florida. I stayed for my master's, taught first grade, and then I interviewed for what I thought was a first grade position, moving to Northern Virginia, and it ended up being the fourth grade team. So I had a minor panic attack about that, and I haven't left fourth grade since I spent a few years doing ESOL and being our ESOL Team Lead at our school. Just because of need, we really needed ESOL teachers at that time. And then I changed districts, and I changed schools, and I got married, and the pandemic hit, and all of the things happened, and I had one of the most diverse classes in terms of learning levels. So I had kids on kindergarten reading levels, kids on fifth grade reading levels, and it was up to that date probably the most like diverse range of kiddos. And we were about, well, we were told we were coming back that Wednesday, and we didn't come back until the following, like year, and I started reading a book on student centered learning. And I don't know if, like, the social media algorithm knew what to do, but they showed me the Edutopia video for MCP, and I was like, I want to do that. Did the free course that summer, probably within a few days, and then just jumped right in and started planning a math unit, because I knew, how am I going to do all of this with all these different kiddos? And I went head first into math, and four years in to the to the model, and I'm now fully implementing in social studies and history too. So lots of things,

Toni Rose Deanon  3:37  
yeah, lots of moving pieces. I, you know, and you said that I had applied for a first grade position and ended up getting fourth grade. Surprise, surprise, it just kind of it made me chuckle, because I feel like that is so much more common than people think or want to talk about, right? And then to also say, like, Yes, I'm Elementary and there's a huge difference between teaching first graders and fourth graders. Like, yes, it's only a couple years, but really the skills and the capabilities are so different. So yeah, I'm sure that was a quite a quite a surprise for you.

Sam Ortiz Whitelaw  4:18  
It was quite the surprise and, and I'm sure, as many people will say, math was kind of the Oh, I'm not a math person, and I don't, you know, I'm not comfortable with it. And I went to teach fractions and had a full on panic attack, and my Math Resource Teacher had to come in and help me, because I was like, I've been doing first grade math for so long, and which is another point as to why MCP was really helpful. It really helped me become a better math teacher.

Toni Rose Deanon  4:45  
Oh, I love that so much. And it brings me back to my undergrad days, because I originally was on the path of becoming an elementary school teacher and then realizing that, like the basic math. Math and how to teach basic math like was not aligning for me, and I had such a hard time, and I swear to you, Sam, I think that was the only C I got in college, which is like how to teach math, because it just wasn't making any sense in my head. Like I knew how to do it, but I couldn't explain it in a way that elementary school kids could understand. And so that was when my professor was like, Maybe you should try Middle School. I was like, Ah, you're right. Maybe I should. That's how I ended up there. So, yeah, I was actually really surprised also, and it shouldn't have been a surprise, because you've been a part of this community for so many years, and I guess I took advantage of that, Sam, so my apologies. And so you've been implementing for a hot minute now. You said four years, and I remember you being a part of our Facebook group in the earlier days, like when we had, like less than 100 people in that group, and now there's 19,000 folks, right? And I know your name specifically because you are so engaged, and I'm so appreciative of it, and you continue to be engaged as well, which is like, thank you so much for sharing your stories and your challenges and your wins as well. And so tell us how it has been implementing the model for the past four years. How has it changed? How has it improved your work life balance? What have you seen with the students and stakeholders perspective on the model? Because you have been implementing it for four years, and we're getting a lot of educators who are just going through the VMP, who are just now hearing about the model, and they have a lot of questions, rightfully so, and so I'm really intrigued, because I only got to implement the model for a year also before doing full time with MCP. And so I'm so curious. Four years. I know that Zach, our other co host, has also been doing it for four years. I'm just so excited. Yeah, tell us all the things.

Sam Ortiz Whitelaw  6:56  
Well, I mean, it's changed a lot. It has gone from it's gone through two different schools with me, the model. And this is going to sound a little woo, woo. I feel like, but honestly, it's what's kept me in the classroom. And it's, I mean, I feel like it's just, there's teacher shortage, there's this, there's burnout, there's all these things happening. And especially as an elementary school teacher, where you're teaching all of the subjects, and you're trying to plan for all of the things and differentiate and meet all your kids needs, but, you know, do it by this day and all of these strict guidelines, and it's, it's hard, and, you know, I've seen so many really good teachers leave the profession, and I Feel like MCP came right at the perfect time for me, and it kind of re engaged me into the career, and it re ignited, I guess, the passion for what I'm doing, and not saying that there's not hard days and I don't have my moments, because we're human. But it's, it's, been a game changer completely for my classroom, and it definitely has changed. So the physical aspects of it has changed, because, like physical room spaces have changed. And as simple as it sounds, you know where you put your mastery check table matters, and where you organize, where kids can get resources matters. And this year I'm going into a brand new classroom, so I'll be plugging all of my things into a new space, but it's a much larger space, and that'll take some refiguring, but I don't know. There's so many small pieces that have changed along the way, like my public tracker and my the tracker that the kids use, but it it changes with each group of kids. My instructional videos have stayed the same. I've tweaked here and there when I have to, but it's really just kind of the the small, like housekeeping pieces that have changed throughout the years, which is what we do anyway, as teachers, we're always, you know, tweaking and changing. I'm a big fan of not recreating the wheel, so like I and I've always been a singleton too, with MCP at my school, so it's always been just me, which is also really hard and can be really lonely. I do have a fabulous special education teacher that's going through the virtual mentorship right now, so I won't be the only one, which is great, but being the only one and doing it can be difficult, so I try to use what the team comes up with. And our team is fabulous, and we meet for what we call CTS every week. So if I tell any teacher that's coming in to try out the model. You know, use what you already have. Go into your Google Drive, grab the slide decks you already have, grab the worksheets you already have. Use those things to become your practice and your mastery checks. So things that change are usually things that get improved with my team. So as the team improves, um. Um, the different parts of our unit, I'll bring that into what I'm doing in my classroom, but I try really hard not to create the recreate the wheel, because that can also be a deterrent for many teachers. Um, I at the end of each unit, I also have kids do a reflection, and it's really funny, because they're nine and 10 years old, and it's just the array of responses that you get is great. But I really wanted to share because that's really what hasn't changed, or what keeps me going, Are the kids and how much they enjoy it. And at the end of every unit, they're the ones that tell me, can we do this in science? Can we do this in social studies? And I had one kid, and I had to write it down, so I made sure I said it the way he said it, and he wrote, What did he say? Modern math classroom is the best. No cap. Okay, all right, I guess I'm also cool now, so that could hear me byline

Toni Rose Deanon  10:59  
that honestly should be the title of this podcast, no cap.

Sam Ortiz Whitelaw  11:05  
That's no cap. And, you know, so it's, it has changed, and it hasn't, I guess, in a way, and it's, it's the same core skills that I'm teaching the kids, and it's just kind of the minutia that changes day to day. And I get so many resources from the Facebook group, from the website. There's not a lot of things that you that teachers necessarily have to do on their own. There's so many things available. I don't know if that answers the question. I feel like I went off on three different tangents. 

Toni Rose Deanon  11:37  
No, this was beautiful. It was beautifully answered. Sam, I really, again, appreciate the fact that you shared this piece of like, you know, I was kind of over teaching, and then I found this piece, and I was like, oh, wait a minute, it actually reinvigorates everything that I've been wanting to do in the classroom, and now I have the skill set and the capacity to do to create this learning environment the way that I've always envisioned it to be. So that's kudos to you. And I also, you know, Singleton, let's talk about it, because I'm sure you've seen on the Facebook group comments and posts about like, hey all like, I'm the only one. I don't know how to get stakeholders or school leaders on board. Parents are coming at me. Our students are not just, they're not just they're just not doing it. So I guess an off script question for you is, how did you deal with the naysayers, the haters? I don't know what the Gen a terminology is now for people who don't like what you're doing, but yeah, how did you navigate that? Because I'm sure you had, I'm sure you've experienced some comments.

Sam Ortiz Whitelaw  12:39  
Yeah, you know it. Oh, which I also the thick skin comes with the thick skin comes with teaching for so long too. Like, at a certain point, I'm a very I subscribe, I subscribe to the idea of, I ask for forgiveness, not permission, when it comes to a lot of things, when I know it's best for my kids, my track record proves it. And I feel like, if, if you know what you're doing is going to be best for your students, and it's going to help your own mental health, then then do it. And I've always told even newer teachers and invite them in. So the principal at the time that I had was all about it, and was great. And then I moved districts, and we had a regime change. And, you know, like everything, there's new principles coming in, and all the things are changing. So I'm always just like, hey, this is what I'm doing. Come in and see it and kind of beat them to the punch. So if you know that this is new, if you know that this is going to be changed, people are afraid of change, regardless of whatever career situation you're in. People are afraid of change, and they're afraid of what they don't know. So, you know, have them come in. I had a an admin once say, oh, so what's this project you're working on? And that's, like, not a project. That's just the name of it. That's the name of modern classrooms. I was like, nope, come in. Come in and see what I'm doing. Um, and he was great, but he just didn't know. So, you know, inviting them in, and as scary as that can be for a first or second year teacher, like, oh gosh, I don't want my principal coming in, invite them in, be proactive about it. And I kind of just did it. I just sort of took my kids along, especially the first year, and I said, we're going to do this, and it's going to be messy, and we're gonna, we're gonna learn together. And there's a really cool video that you guys have that's, it's some animated and it, it asked the kids, you know, have you ever sat in class and felt like you were bored because you knew it already, or you felt like you were lost because you were absent or, and you could see the kids going, Yep, that's me. That's me. And hands are up, and I'm like, yeah, that it kind of sucks, right guys and and they are all in agreement, and you can see them. And that was, I think, the buy in I get every year. I always show that video at the beginning, and I said, Okay, so this is the solution to that, and it's not going to be perfect, and we're going to have stuff that goes wrong. But when a kid is going home and telling their parents, I like math, now I. Uh, like you're not going to get, you can't, Na, say what I'm doing if your kid now likes math. And I've, I've had teachers, you know, they, they'll warn you about a kid that you're getting and a lot of times it comes from place, a good place, and they want you to know what's going on. But they'll come in to my modern classroom, and they're the kids that are ahead of pace in my room. They're the kids that are helping the other kids. And it doesn't mean I don't have behavior issues. They're nine and 10 year olds. There's always drama going on with somebody, but it's so much less than it was my first 10 years of teaching. Like I don't worry about having a classroom management system as much as I used to. Now, it's, let me get my units done. Let me figure out what my aspire to do is going to be. Let's make it something fun that they're going to look forward to. And I had a AP come in, and she was like, Oh, I just, you know, want to see what's going on. I've heard about your room. And I kind of tried to tout my own what does it toot my own horn and say, you know, I got, I became a distinguished modern classroom educator. You should come see my class. Blah blah blah. And they came in, and she was like, there were kids that were like, whispering to each other, like, are we gonna get to Lesson three today? That's gonna be so cool. Blah, blah, blah, blah blah. And she was like, wait, what? What are you excited? She was so thrown that they were excited to get to the next lesson. I said, What nine and 10 year old is excited to get to the next lesson in fractions? Because I wasn't when I was in school, I was excited to get to the end of all of the math lessons. So I doesn't really answer, I guess, how I handle the naysayers? I try to be proactive about it before I even think they're gonna say something negative about it. And then, if I ever have, I've only had one or two parents ever kind of ask, so what is exactly that they're doing? And I'll say, hey, go on to there for us, we use Schoology. And I'll say, go on to Schoology. Let them show you. And if you have any questions after you talk to your child, let me know. So I really try to push it onto the kids and say, they know what to do. They can tell you, and if they can't, then, then I got to talk to them, because they should know what to do. Um, so it's a lot of, I don't know what's the thing, the proof is in the pudding. Like, the proof is there, like it's it's right, it's right there. You can't, I don't know. I can't argue with it. 

Toni Rose Deanon  17:24  
Yeah, no, you are absolutely yes, yes, yes to everything that you're saying. And I just wanted to kind of point out a couple of things that you had said that really stood out to me. Is the piece where you're saying, invite them in, right? Invite them in. Go ahead and beat them to the punch, meaning, just be proactive about this, and just go ahead before they could even create a different narrative in their head because of whatever it is that they're hearing in the school and outside of school, right? Because, you know, there's a lot of what's the word negative connotation when it comes to blended learning, right? And even, like, mastery based learning and then self pacing. So all these three pillars, there's a lot of misconceptions and negative connotations about it. So yeah, I really like this. And you said, you know, even with like, first and second year teachers, teachers who are just starting out, continue to invite folks in to see the magic that is happening in your classroom. And I think sometimes too, I've seen this too, where, where instructional coaches, school leaders are thrown off because they can have conversations with students, and students can tell them exactly what they're doing, even though it doesn't look like that the teacher is teaching in front of the classroom, right? Quote, unquote, like this whole lecture thing, and so it's just really powerful. Because I think, like, observation should definitely be about student anecdotes and what students responses are based on what they're learning and teaching. Because I feel like, as an educator, I can sweet talk it all up about what I do, right? Like, Oh, I did this. I did that we are here, we are there. And then if you talk to a student, and if you decide to choose a student who was misbehaving, that students could be like, now, what we doing? And and I just chuckle at that all the time, because it's happened to me multiple times as well throughout just like my my teaching career. And you know when you talk about behavior issues, right? You were like, oh, yeah, they're 910 of course they're going to be behavior issues. Honestly. Sam in adult spaces, we also have behavior issues and so, and especially if it's a room full of educators, bro, like, our, our, our behavior is very disruptive sometimes. And I think that that's so fascinating too, right? Of like, educators or adults are like, Oh, what about behavior and classroom management? And it's like, yes. And like, how about those spaces that you are in? Also, like, sometimes we're on our phones and not paying attention to the person. So clearly, like. Sharing is not going to work out. So like, really creating a space where students are are actively learning and are engaging in this work. That's what we want as adults, too. So why not create those spaces for everyone? So I really, really like that. And you know, when you say a child like went home and said, I like math, that's huge. That's huge, right? Sam like that may not be a number, but dang, that is data like that is really, really cool data. I also always loved it. I taught English. When my students come in and they say, I hate reading, I everything to do with English, and then we make it so much, so much more fun than they had expected, that they're like, Oh, snap, actually read five books this year. How did that happen? And when? And again, just as a reminder, right? Like when caregivers, parents, families, come in and question it. It's not because they're doing it out of malicious ways, right? It's just really getting to know like, Hey, I care about my kid. I care about the learning, so I'm gonna have some questions. So I always, like, nurtured that relationship as well. If a parent or a caregiver came in and was asking a lot of questions, and I knew it was because of out of curiosity, out of care, and it may come off as like, anger, right, or frustration, but a lot of the times, like you said, it's fear, right? There's fear, like, navigates a lot of the way, how we move, especially when it's things that we don't know. And so I love that you are just like, You know what? I'm not going to do it like, go talk to your student, and they will be able to show you exactly what they're supposed to be doing in this in this new ish learning environment, right? So kudos to you. That's amazing. I love that. I hope our listeners are able to, you know, pick up some gems as well, just based off of that one response that you had. And then, you know, when you talk about, like, oh, I had a school leader be like, What is this project you're working on? I am quietly chuckling, because I just got back from a conference. And, of course, you know, modern classrooms project. So a lot of the people were like, Oh, tell me about this project that you're working on. I'm like, Yes, of course. And it's, it's just, it's just funny. It's just a funny thing. So I'm really glad that you were welcoming and inviting and just go ahead and like, you know what I'm gonna get right to it in the front of it, rather than waiting until they have all of these narratives in their head to just go ahead and get in front of it and have of it and have this conversation. So I love that. So then I guess, like in the beginning, like first year, right? I know that you had said, Hey, we're gonna do this model, and it's gonna be real messy, and that's okay, because learning is messy, right? How did, how exactly did you introduce the model? Did you have, like, a unit zero. Did you have were you doing the video practice mastery checks? Like, all together as a class, as a whole group first, before you release them? Like, how did that work for you on your first year versus your fourth year of implementing

Sam Ortiz Whitelaw  22:54  
so in the very beginning, I probably got a little ahead of myself, and I didn't, well, I didn't do a unit zero. I just kind of jumped right in with them, and I said, Hey, this is where the instructional video is going to be, and this is everything else. And like, go do it. That didn't work at the very beginning. I had to kind of reel them back in, but it was a lesson learned for me, just like with anything in teaching that we do the first time. Fast forward to now, where I don't necessarily have a unit zero with them, but we'll go through for math. For instance, unit one, lesson one, we will do together, painstakingly slow, and we'll do the video together. We'll talk about, how should we take notes? We'll talk about what Reese, you know, what supplies should we have? Because they'll say, oh, yeah, I did it. Okay. Well, where were your notes, and where was your headphones? And had you did it magically in your brain? I don't know. So it My advice would be to go, go slow, especially if you've got younger kids, and probably with older kids as well. Go slow through the first if you're not going to do a unit zero. Go very slow, and I feel like it's with anything in teaching, like those first two weeks of school, you're not really doing a lot of content. You're doing a lot of procedural things, a lot of routines. So you can build that in and okay, this is where I get my laptop. This is how I sit down. This is where I can sit this is the tools that I need. This is where I can get the tools I need. Um, so I definitely learned my lesson from just saying, Go, go, go, do it. This is gonna work great, because that didn't happen. There was maybe one or two kids who could but I had to say, Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, come back, come back. You guys don't know how to watch a video, take notes and all the things. But I had really good intentions. I was like, they're gonna do it. And they did. They eventually did, but definitely learn to slow down a little bit, take it step by step with them. And then they end up helping each other, and they end up they don't even need me. They're like, No, no, I'm good so and so is gonna help me. I'm like, oh, okay, cool. Well, I'll just go back over here.

Toni Rose Deanon  25:04  
This is actually a hot take Sam, because, you know, we're always talking about unit zero, unit zero, and then now you kind of gave me a different perspective. Of like, you know what? I didn't have a unit zero, and that's okay, but we did do lesson one together so they can experience how painstakingly slow. It is an expecting for everyone to move the same pace. And so I really like that too. Of like, No, we're going to do this as a whole group first, so you can kind of get a feel of it, and then you get to just do the rest on your own, which I think is really another awesome way, honestly, to introduce it. And another thing that I really love that you mentioned too, is that, you know, the beginning of the school year is chaotic. We know this. It's really messy with registration. Oh, actually, this kid is not supposed to be in your class. Oh, wait a minute, here's five more students in your class. Oh, and you're going to teach this extra class that you had no idea that you're teaching. And so there's always a lot of interruptions in the beginning of the school year. And you pointed out that in the beginning it's also like, procedures, right? And I would even say, like, Hey, make videos, right, so that students can have those low lift activities. And the low lift activities is just procedural things, right? Like, hey, here's how to get to your LMS, here's how to do your mastery checks or access your mastery checks. This is how you ask for help, or, like, you know, if you're absent, this is what you do or whatever, right? And so I really like this procedural thing, too. And I think I'm even gonna say, like, listeners get creative with the procedures, right? Like, I know one it was, like, it was, like, it was a year before I started implementing the model, and I was already doing, like, some videos in the classroom for my students, but it wasn't as detailed as it was with the model. And one of the things that I did was I was traveling a lot in the summer, so I was making videos, like, really snippets of videos of me and like, the expectations of the classroom and how I wanted it. And I mind you, this was summer, and like, I don't recommend, like, taking up time and space in the summer to plan, but I knew that I wanted to showcase, like, what I was doing in the summer with my students, and then like, incorporating some videos there. So I had, like, videos from Hawaii, I had videos from like, all the places that I was in, and the students really loved it, because it was like, yeah, it was procedural. But I'm like, Yeah, I'm hiking in Hawaii, and this is what I want to talk to y'all about. This is how you get your whatever, whatever procedure it is that I wanted them to do. And it was a very quick, like, two, three minute video, but they saw, you know, my environment, where I was, and so again, just get creative with it. You don't actually have to be sitting in front of your computer, recording videos the entire time. You can get creative with how you do that. 

Sam Ortiz Whitelaw  27:46  
You said that, and it reminded me, last year I actually had a group of kiddos. We had played around with Screencastify a little bit, and I was trying out their their submit piece, which is like their assignments and things. And I ended up having my kids for reading, because I don't do it with reading. We're getting a new we have a new thing coming down the pipeline this year. And I said, Let me hold off. Let me see what's coming first before I do anything. So knowing that was coming, I actually had my kids who sat at I have five tables in my room, and each table got assigned basically one of the big skills in our room during our reading workshop time. And I made a very simple, maybe four or five slide deck for them that they had to fill out first with their group. And it was, you know, what does going to the classroom library look like? What does it sound like? What does transitioning from the carpet to the table to the hallway look like sound like? Things like that. Tips from fourth graders who've done it before, things you need to know about Mrs. Whitelaw when it comes to the classroom library and her books and her prized possessions and things. And they did the slide deck, and then they got turns going into our hallway and recording. So they actually made videos over the Google Slides. And they they thought it was just like the best thing ever. And then we played the videos from all the groups could see, which was really nice. And it was the last two weeks of school where you're like, why are we in school? State testing is over and there's nothing left. So we had some really cool videos that they worked on, and I told them, I said, Your videos are going to be the instructional videos. I'm going to take your video and I'm going to put it on EdPuzzle, and we're going to add questions, and I'm going to take your slides and make slides and make them into fill in the blank notes, and then kids are going to have to do mastery checks from your video. So I just took all of that work off of me, and now my previous fourth graders are going to teach my new fourth graders this year how to do reading workshop and like, teacher win. So get your kids involved.

Toni Rose Deanon  29:41  
Yes, I really love this. Oh my gosh, you're brilliant, like you said, you know, not having to recreate the wheel, like you're right, you're gonna have the same procedure for library, for your books, for like, how you transition, right? And I love that part. And this makes me think too. Like when I was in the classroom, my students created a website for. Are my future students, of, like, how to navigate? Like, hey, what irks Misty, like, don't do these things. And it was just like a fun overall reflection that my students, my future students, could look at and be like, okay, like, here are some tips and tricks from like, future seventh graders, right? And, and it was I would have loved to do the procedures, you know. And again, like you said, get the students to do it. The less work we got to do, the better. So might as well get them to be creative, and I bet they come up with something even more creative and even more like, even better than we could come up with. So it's always really cool to see students creativity and then and then them, knowing that there's a real audience behind it too. So, Oh Sam, yes, I love this so much. 

Sam Ortiz Whitelaw  30:48  
And I was like, Oh no, get ready next year in the hallway, fourth graders are going to be going, you're from the video. I saw you on my computer. You guys are going to be famous.

Toni Rose Deanon  31:02  
They're basically influencers, all right, so I have a question. I know that you started out implementing in math Sam, which I feel like a lot of people do, because it is a lot, quote, unquote easier to do it in math, right? But now you're implementing in history and science as well. And I know listeners caught the thing that, like, you're not implementing in reading yet, because there's lots of changes there. So you didn't want to, like, rock that boat or do anything, right? And so how do you ensure you're balancing self pacing, collaboration and small group slash whole group teaching for all of those because I can already hear people being like, that's a lot of screen time, or like, that's a lot like, that's a lot that's three subjects. How do your students not get bored? How do you keep them motivated? What are your thoughts on that?

Sam Ortiz Whitelaw  31:56  
I don't know. No, I don't know how I do it. No, I you know, with elementary the the kind of concrete part is the timing part, where we only have certain amount of time for each subject. So that's already done. You know, we have to do science within this hour, and we have to do reading within this, and math within this. So that part's already carved out for us. And, you know, in terms of screen time, it's really, I mean, I feel like it's really up to the teacher. Your instructional videos are going to be on the computer, yes, but they don't. Then have to get back on the computer if you don't want them to. You could have all the other activities. Could be group activities. They could be solo activities. I try to give them a lot of choice. So obviously the instructional video, they have to do it. The paper part is the notes that goes with it, but then for them to practice, there's a paper option. There's like a quizzes, gamified practice option. There's another EdPuzzle option. They get tons of options. They get review pages they can work on. They're aspire to do, which is the last thing if they'd get through all their lessons and they master them. The aspire to do is usually something paper based, and I try to bring in more of like an art or creative aspect. So when we were doing measurement, the aspire to do was the local animal shelter had an influx of dogs, and they had to build a new dog park. And so they had to create, like the area and the perimeter and but it was all on paper. They had to do it in their notebook, and then they had to make copies and drafts and their blueprints. So I try to build in as much of paper and technology, because there's also going to be days where the Wi Fi is going to be down and or the copier machine is going to be down, so already, kind of proactively having those things ready for them is helpful. And a lot of these edtech tools too, like a quizzes, or, I don't know, there's so many, you can you can print out versions of what you've created on the site too. So you can say, hey, if your laptop's not working, or if you left it at home, or if it's dead, there's the paper option. And then with all of the subjects, I always do some sort of whole group. So in math, we do number talks at the beginning of every lesson. And it could be a mental math thing. It could be a, my favorite mistake, something that they were all kind of bombing the day before. That's the question we go over together as a group. In science, it'll usually be our experiments or some kind of video that we need to have a discussion about, and we'll do that together. And then in social studies, it's usually a read aloud or some kind of chapter book that goes with the unit, and we'll do that together. So I've all kind of using, again, not recreating the wheel. So whatever you would normally do, if you would normally do a read aloud for this, if you would normally do an experiment, then still, you're going to still do that with your kids, and then just finding ways to give them options, to go between the computer and paper. I think the content itself is the. Different enough where the kids aren't getting bored, because they're going to go from fractions, and then they're going to go to the solar system, and then they're going to go to ecosystems, and, you know, they're going to the Revolutionary War, and they're watching pieces of Hamilton that I'm putting on so, you know, it's, it's so it's such different content that so far, knock on wood, I haven't had kids become too bored, as long as I add in that choice. If you, if you make it where it's just you do this, you do this, you do this, and it's the same thing every time. Then, yeah, for sure. But if you give them choice and say, Well, you can do any of these three things, you can do any of these four things, they're not going to get bored, 

Toni Rose Deanon  35:40  
yeah. And that's, I mean, again, great, great reminder too, of adding in choice, right? Human beings in general, just love having choices. When you tell them they have to do just one thing, there's a lot of resentment and a lot of just, like, I don't want to do that one thing, right? So I love this reminder to add in choice, and also just a reminder that, like, when you're doing self pacing, it doesn't necessarily mean that you get rid of whole group altogether. I know that for me as well, in the beginning, and there are some teachers who do it in the beginning at the end, where it's a whole group, and the whole group is literally, like, five minutes long, right? Of just like, hey, let's be together in community. Let's talk about the mistakes, or let's talk about this big thing that we all have a misconception about. Or even just like a celebration, like, hey, we saw this person do really well, so we want to celebrate them, right? And so this whole groove, it doesn't mean that you have to get rid of them. I think what we're trying to say when you do self pacing is that when it comes to your lessons, lessons, right? Like you don't want to take 3040, minutes delivering a lesson when you could do that in a video for like, six minutes, maybe left right. So I really love that part, too. And I think you kind of hammer down this whole blended learning, and what it means to actually have blended learning of the whole mixture of computer as well as paper based. And you know when you were talking, when you said, yeah, like, sometimes there's no Wi Fi, and then sometimes the copier is down, I was like, Oh my gosh, these are things, yes, it happened. So, like, we do have to be prepared for that. And that's why lots of choice, or just like, you know, two to three choices make a lot of sense for folks, for students, to to engage in, to really explore and and learn more about right? So I really like that now, I guess my follow up question too is that, you know, your students are engaged because they're learning about different things. And so when you shifted and added on, when you said, Okay, we've been doing this in math, and y'all are excelling, and we love it, so now we're gonna do it in history. Did you have like, cheers or like, were the kids? You know, what were the reaction of the kids? I'm so curious.

Sam Ortiz Whitelaw  37:44  
So it's funny you say that. I we state testing, and it's a whole nother podcast episode. Our fifth graders in Virginia are the ones that test for science, and our school was in what they call warning because the scores were so low, blah, blah, blah, and they're tested on majority fourth grade content and fifth grade content. So the fifth grade teachers are usually kind of left with really reteaching all of that fourth grade content, because the fourth grade teachers had 30 minutes to do it. So once you go into warning, they they move things around, and you get more time, but you get a whole lot more stipulations that come with it, which can be very overwhelming. So our team was very overwhelmed. As much directive as we were given, we were not given as many resources that we would have liked. So we were doing a lot of recreating for science, and I was doing it just the way it was given to us, because that's what we were being told to do. And I said it's going to be a lot right now. And we finished up a math unit, and I don't remember which one it was, but it was they did their reflection like normal. And at the bottom, I was going home for the first time in a few years, and I was bringing home science work. And that really triggers me emotionally, because I go home and I only have, like, maybe two hours with my daughter before it's bedtime when I get home from work. So that's precious time for me, unless I really want to do something, and it's something I really, you know, want to take home. So I was getting really overwhelmed and really frustrated. So I asked the kids their last question was, you know, we've been doing really great. Math with modern classroom. What do you guys think about maybe doing some of these things in science? And, no joke, 90% of the kids were basically like, yes please, like, five minutes ago, and it was because of them, like they are the ones who told me, we need to do this in science. So then I was bringing work home, but it was now work that I was choosing to bring home to be able to help me later. So I was able to, you know, do my instructional videos and and do the practices, and it was just like a switch went off, and I did this in the middle of a solar system unit. I. And which I don't necessarily suggest anybody doing in the middle of the unit, waiting for a new unit, but I was just so when I get to that point where I'm just like, I'm gonna throw all the science stuff out the window, I needed to do something different. And I mean, the kids it was, they weren't begrudgingly coming in for science at the end of the day, because they were like, this is going to be awful. Who wants to listen to anybody lecture about science in fourth grade? None of them do. And the engagement was up. I mean, kids that were getting we score on, like, on a one to four scale, and it was ones and ones and ones all the time, because it's just really hard. The vocabulary is hard, the processes are hard. And it was like, just a total like, switch went off, and I was like, Okay, this is worth it. This is worth taking a few hours on a Wednesday night and doing this. This is worth working a little bit while the baby's sleeping to get ahead of the game. So then next year I don't have to worry about the solar system unit, I'll work on the ecosystems unit instead. So, yeah, they're the ones who told me we need to switch this.

Toni Rose Deanon  41:10  
Yeah. And, I mean, I think you just bring up a really good point too, of like, this is the work that I didn't want to work on, especially not at home. And knowing that, like, I'm gonna may have to do it again next year like that is not motivating at all. And so for you, like it is very activating. Right to think about like, the amount of work that we take home as educators, and the amount of pressure that we feel of getting that work graded and given feedback, like, at a good amount of time like that is, yeah, and then especially if you have a family at home too. So thank you for naming that reality of like, No, I didn't. This is not what I wanted to do. And so I created something that I did want to do, and it was the students who pushed for it. So kudos to you for providing that space and getting students to advocate for what they want as well. And so yeah, in the middle of the unit as well, Sam, you are really over that,

Sam Ortiz Whitelaw  42:05  
not I mean, yeah, don't do it in the middle. Just wait.

Toni Rose Deanon  42:14  
That's hilarious. Okay, so listeners, we're going to take a quick break for an announcement, and we come back, we'll talk a little bit more about Sam's stories.

Zach Diamond  42:25  
Hey there, listeners. This is Zach just dropping in to remind you that we are now publishing this podcast on YouTube. You can listen to the podcast on YouTube, and pretty soon we're going to start dropping in short clips as well with video so you can see our lovely faces and the lovely faces of our wonderful guests. So definitely check the show notes for the link to the YouTube channel. Check that out. We also have a Tiktok account where we answer questions, share resources and research in bite sized videos. So check out the show notes for links and a bunch of other stuff from this podcast, which we are now going to hop right back into with Tony rose and Sam.

Toni Rose Deanon  43:04  
All right, we're back with Sam now. We're diving into blended, self paced, mastery based learning in elementary classrooms. And we've been talking about it, right? We've been talking about the challenges, the struggles, the wins, the not so great wins, and so there's a lot of buzz around it. Let's talk about the potential benefits for young learners. I know that you've been working with fourth graders, and if you were to think about first grade, would you actually implement this model with your first graders? And then also, like, what are you most excited about when it comes to this kind of learning? And then we also just talked about the challenges, but yeah, let's focus on like, Hey, if you were teaching first grade, teaching first grade, would you implement this model? And then what are you really most excited about with this model as well? I mean, there's four years, right? Like, how are we motivating you to keep going? Honestly?

Sam Ortiz Whitelaw  43:55  
Oh, gosh. Um, I I would like to think that if I had had MCP, that I would have definitely done it with my first graders. And then I listened to the podcast, and I see all the teachers on the Facebook group, and they're doing it with kindergarten classrooms. So I'm like, well, dang if they can do it with five year olds. Like, there is no excuse for the rest of us. And obviously it's a lot simpler. It's a lot less, maybe choice, you know, and it's a lot more routines and procedural. But, you know, they're my biggest thing is advocacy for them, and they are becoming such advocates for themselves. And to see kids, how cool would it be to see a six or a seven year old say, you know, I really don't understand this. I don't want to do my mastery check yet, because I don't think I'm going to do good. So I'm going to go meet with, you know, Miss Smith about blah, blah blah. Like, that's, that's huge. And we're seeing so so many kiddos coming to us with this idea of learned helplessness. And then, you know, wanting you to kind of hold their hands through, through every piece of everything. And then what excites me is the kid. Kids advocating for themselves, when I can sit back and watch them and everything's just kind of running like a pretty well oiled machine. And they're, you know, to each other saying, dude, like, don't tell me the answer. I gotta go do this on a mastery check, bro. Like, you gotta, you gotta tell me how to do it. Like, if I don't know how to do it, I can't do it over there. And you hear them having these conversations, and I'm like, Okay, I'm like, Yes, in the background, like, Woohoo, you know? And to see them go to fifth grade, where they may not have a teacher doing modern, you know, classroom, but they're saying, I'm advocating for myself, you know? They're asking for help, and they're asking questions when they normally wouldn't have before. And that's, I mean, I can't ask for anything more than that I feel like with the kiddos. And, you know, four years in, and the biggest thing I feel like with teachers is there's not enough time, and I gotta do lesson one on Monday, and I gotta do Lesson Two on Tuesday and Lesson three on Wednesday. And oh gosh, I was absent on Monday because I got sick from my germ infested classroom of 26 kids, and you know, now we're behind and, oh, and the world. And, you know, it's just it becomes this huge thing, whereas now it's, yeah, I went, I went away for my birthday, and I took off on a Thursday and Friday, and I came back and the kids were still working through their math unit. Or a kid was out of the country. Again, my kiddos are a multilingual and we're an immersion school as well. And speaking of getting thrown into different positions, I'm going to be teaching Spanish Immersion math and science next year. So that's like a whole other layer of change. But you know, kids are leaving the country for a week at a time, and they come back. And I had one kiddo, such a sweetheart. He went to Thailand for almost a month and came back right before state testing. And if this doesn't tell you, like, the benefit of self pacing, I don't know, he comes back and he's like, oh gosh, you know, I missed this whole unit in math, blah, blah, blah and science, social studies. And I just said, just said, just jump right into the unit, like you left off on, and he didn't necessarily finish, like, all of the lessons as everybody else, but he did so well on all of our assessments, on our state's testing, like, because he was able to come back in and jump in where he was. And he might have missed, like, test review, but he did all the basic essential skills leading up to it. And I'm like, Well, okay, if he can leave to Thailand for a month and come back and be almost right on par with everybody else, that's, that's pretty legit.

Toni Rose Deanon  47:35  
That's a celebration, like, that's a win in itself, right? Like, because, again, our life throws so many different curveballs and things at us, and so there's going to be a lot of interruptions. And I think something I really just appreciate about this model is that it lessens the interruptions for educators, for students, for caregivers, right? It really just lessens, it doesn't stop all interruptions, right? Because even though we have self pacing, if our if our student is not able to to learn because of emotional or mental capacity, right, like, then it's still not going to happen. And so there's still interruptions, but it does really lessen that, right? There's not this guilt of like, Oh, I'm going to be gone for so long, so therefore, like, I can't really enjoy my moment with a family or whatever, or I can't really rest. I'm not feeling well because I'm worried my students are not learning right? And so, yeah, those are all true. Like, self pacing in itself is just so magical. Like, why didn't I do this before? Is what I always question. Like, I always ask this question of, like, Ah, I was in the classroom for 10 years, and I only implemented this my 10th year of teaching, and that is wild to me. And so, Sam, okay, so you've basically been with MCP as long as I have been an MCP. I feel like you and I like I probably implemented it the year before, something right? And so I'm curious, we've evolved a lot as a company, as an organization. What is something that you have, like, enjoyed seeing as you have been with us for so long? Like, what are some resources that we may have, you know, created? Or just like, the space where you just kept coming back, because you do keep coming back, you're literally everywhere in our community. So, so what keeps you coming back, right? What keeps you engaged in our community? And what are some things that you've just been like, oh my gosh, this is really cool. So I want to, I want to just continue showing up.

Sam Ortiz Whitelaw  49:36  
You know, the podcast is one huge piece of it. And if you, you know, to any listeners who drive to work and they're thinking about doing this like, get the podcast loaded up in your car, pick one of the episodes where it's about, you know, just starting out with the model, and just start listening. You and Zach have accompanied me to work and back home again. Many, many a days. Little do you know? I. But you're with me all the time commuting. So the podcast is a huge one, because from the podcast, like I've even reached out to some of your guests that you've had on about gamifying lessons and just different things that I thought, Oh, that would be really cool. And I've reached out to that teacher who lives in across the country that I would have never known. So that whole network of being able to reach out to somebody that you would have never spoken to before, and getting ideas, and then some of the tangible resources, the public tracker, which I thought was really scary at first when I saw it, and then I watched the video, and I was like, Oh, I can do this so much easier. So don't, if you want to use a digital tracker and putting it up on your screen. Go to the MCP one. Use that one that's really helpful. That changed the game this past school years. When I started using it, I was just like, Why have I not used this before and that? And then also this year, I'm switching to more of a game board style. I was doing more checklists with the kids, and you guys have different templates for game board style ones. And again, don't recreate the wheel. There's so many resources on the MCP website that have just made my life so much easier. So you don't have to worry about because we can get caught up on, oh, well, this doesn't look right, and this box is here, and then we'll spend three hours procrastinating on the game board or the tracker or the checklist and never actually get to the content. So using some of those kind of staple pieces that is already offered and available is really helpful. Yeah, the networking that the podcast and the Facebook group offers is huge. I mean, being able to be on the podcast today, like, that's this is, I'm like, This is so cool. 

Toni Rose Deanon  51:45  
Now you're going to be listening to you on your commute.

Yeah, and I love this, right? Like, we get to elevate and amplify educators voices and so, and being able to share their stories as well. And you know, one of the things that, too, that came up to me came up for me because you were saying, like, Oh, why haven't I been trying this public tracker? And it's because fear, right, like, fear keeps us from trying new things. And then once you do it, you're like, wait a minute, why haven't I been there, this fair, you know, all this time. And so I think, like, sometimes when it's fear that's coming up, right? Like, let's just go, like, let's do it. Let's try these things. Find someone to hold your hand, or just, like, do it yourself, right? Like, confidently, or do it scared. I think Will Smith said something like that, right? Like, if you're scared, that's cool. But like, do things scared anyway. Still do it. I also have a question, have you I know that you took our free course like back in the day? Have you had a chance to check it out? Now?

Sam Ortiz Whitelaw  52:50  
No, I actually haven't gotten back.

Toni Rose Deanon  52:54  
You're gonna love it. So I would say, whenever you are, whenever you have time, whatever that is, definitely go back into our free course, because it has evolved. It is like, so beautiful. And then we have other courses as well that are free for folks who are who have done the free course. So like, you get the free course for us, and then once you finish it, then you have access to other like courses that we've now created, which we call, like the MCP University. So definitely check that out. Sam, and I'm so curious to see what your thoughts are. But yeah, just a heads up. Listeners, like you want to go through the free course. Once you finish that, then you'll see all these options as well. I don't think that you'll see it right away, but yeah, definitely check that out. And so, oh my gosh. Okay. So, Sam, what do you hope to see in the future?

Sam Ortiz Whitelaw  53:47  
More people using MCP,

Toni Rose Deanon  53:48  
right?

Sam Ortiz Whitelaw  53:51  
Just do it. Just do it. Jump in. I'll hold your hand. You know, just more teachers and schools shifting their mindset from the traditional lecture style, because we know that it's not really working for everybody. And I remember hearing this was probably undergrad where, when you're lecturing, you're only actually reaching a third of your audience. So if you're looking at your class and you have almost 30 kids, okay, you're reaching 10 of them. But what about the other 20? Those are the ones that are rolling around the carpet. There's the ones that are yelling out, or whatever it is that they're doing, picking at the carpet, you know? So if we know it's not working, that's the definition of insanity, right? Doing the same thing over and over again, expecting it to work, it's not working. The kids are changing. Technology is a part of their life, like we have to change along with them. And my sister in law used to say she had this saying about, like, choose your hard. And, you know, I said traditional style teaching is really hard, and it's getting harder, and trying something new, like MCP is also hard, so, but you have to choose your hard. Are you going to stay in the hard that you're in or try something new? That might be hard too, but. It might also have a whole lot more benefit to you, and just for more teachers not to be scared, or to be scared, like you said, and just do it and try it and see what happens, because that's what we do anyway. When we walk into the classroom, we're hoping it works when we walk in, and we're hoping that it sticks. And if it doesn't, we try again on Tuesday and on Wednesday, yeah,

Toni Rose Deanon  55:20  
the world actually doesn't end when things don't work out the way that we need to work out. Like we just, we create this narrative that like, oh my gosh, if we mess up, but if something is not great, then everything is just gonna be awful. And it's like, no, not really. If anything, the kids would be like, okay, and then move on. 

Sam Ortiz Whitelaw  55:37  
Yep, I meant to do that. I was just checking if you guys were paying attention. 

Toni Rose Deanon  55:40  
Right, right, right? It makes us definitely more human. And I again, thank you for the reminder of choosing your hard right. Because everything, honestly is hard. You just get to choose whichever hard you want. So, huh? Thank you. Thank you for that. And so, Sam, How could our listeners connect with you? Because you have a lot of expertise here, and experiences from like fourth grade, just implementing in math and now in science, and now history, and now you're gonna do it in reading and how you're keeping your sanity. So how can our listeners connect with you?

Sam Ortiz Whitelaw  56:13  
So Facebook Group is a great way. It's under, I believe I'm under Samantha Whitelaw there, and then at that teacher mama on Instagram, M, O, M, M, a, and I'm pretty I'll answer DMS and all that, but yeah, Facebook group is also super easy, too, yes, and

Toni Rose Deanon  56:34  
y'all like Sam is super engaged and super welcoming and just such a blast to be in the presence of Sam just virtually. So this is our first time actually having a conversation synchronously in real time. So it's actually really, really dope. So again, like just thank you for showing up. Thank you for being you. Thank you for believing in us and just continuing to show up and engage with the community for four years now, Sam, I feel like I need to, like, give you an award or something, because, like, That's dope. That is so dope. It's so cool to see that. And I'm sure that we have a lot more teachers who are also have been implementing for many years. And so again, just thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Listeners. Remember, you can always email us at podcast@modernclassrooms.org, and you can find the show notes for this episode of podcast at modern classrooms.org/ 204, we'll have this episode's transcript uploaded by Friday. And we're also doing a new thing where we're going to do YouTube audio as well as YouTube shorts with our podcast. So look out for that. So be sure to check back to access those. Also, we are asking our listeners to leave a review of this podcast has been helpful and supporting you to create a human, centered learning environment through blended, self paced mastery based model, it does help other folks find it. Thank you all for listening. Have a great week, and we'll be back next Sunday. Thank you so much. Sam. 

Sam Ortiz Whitelaw  57:56  
Bye, thank you. 

Toni Rose Deanon  58:02  
Thank you so much for listening. You can find links to topics and tools we discussed in our show notes for this episode, and remember. You can learn more about our work@www.modernclassrooms.org and you can learn the essentials of our model through our free course@learn.modernclassrooms.org you can follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. At modern classproj, that's P, R, O, J, we are so appreciative of all you do for students in schools. Have a great week, and we'll be back next Sunday with another episode of the modern classrooms project podcast. You

Transcribed by https://otter.ai