Zach Diamond  0:03  
Welcome to the modern classrooms project podcast each week we bring you discussions with educators on how they use blended, self paced and mastery based learning to better serve their students. We believe teachers learn best from each other, so this is our way of lifting up the voices of leaders and innovators in our community. This is the modern classrooms project podcast.

Toni Rose Deanon  0:28  
Hello and welcome to the modern classrooms project podcast. My name is Toni Rose Deanon, they them pronouns, a designated hype person here at MCP, and I am joined by a middle school bilingual science teacher who's been working with students since 2007 and a public school teacher since 2012 a published researcher, a public school parent, a local school council member and a basketball fanatic. Hi. Mike Friedberg, welcome.

Mike Friedberg  0:57  
Thanks Toni Rose, that's quite an introduction. I don't know how to follow that up, but yeah, those things are true.

Toni Rose Deanon  1:03  
No, it's so great because you have a lot of perspectives, right? You're wearing a lot of different hats and a lot of experiences. So I'm excited to share your story. I'm excited to get to know you a little bit better as well. So again, just thank you so much for being in this space, saying yes to the podcast. It's really exciting to be here with you, and you're doing it during school day, so I appreciate the pause to do this podcast with me, and shout out to your co worker who is helping you out with coverage. So 

Mike Friedberg  1:31  
thank you. Sheldon, yes, 

Toni Rose Deanon  1:33  
there you go. Awesome. Before we get started, Mike, what is bringing you joy currently?

Mike Friedberg  1:39  
Man, I would say, like my own kids, like my my daughter's willing to flag football. My son has been bike riding. It's just getting warmer, so that's been really fun. Music, basketball, WNBA, NBA Playoffs. Great game last night. So just enjoying life.

Toni Rose Deanon  1:59  
It's so active, and I love that. Yeah, right. Lots of movement really helps with our physical, mental, emotional health. So it's really great that your kids are in a lot of movement. So yay to that and so, and thank you for sharing that as well. So tell us, you know, tell our listeners a little bit more about who you are and how you started your MCP journey.

Mike Friedberg  2:20  
So I'm a Chicago Public Schools teacher. I but I didn't start off like that, you know, I just, I mainly did music and just real random odd jobs, and started working with kids and at a local Y MCA, and I was like, Oh, this. I This is the first job. I don't hate this. I don't hate coming to work. It's kind of a nice feeling. And so I've been, you know, teaching since 2012 and my co worker shout out to my co worker, Millie Salguero, who did the virtual mentorship. She showed me a video of the modern classroom project, and it's the one that Ed Utopia posted with the, you know, your guys founder. And I was, I was just floored by it. I hadn't, you know, as you know, Tony rose, like in education, it feels like there's so many passing fads. And just like, oh, this year it's something new, and we know next year will be something else. And this was the first video that I had seen in years where I didn't feel like that at all. I was like, wow, this is really amazing. This could be really revolutionary to education. I just feel like that. There's so many meaningless buzzwords in education that people throw around. And for one for me, one of the things that attracted to me was on every formal observation I had, I was told it was not student centered enough. But also I never really had that modeled for me, what that would look like, right? So that was one thing, and it was the first time I saw I was like, Oh, this is what student centered could really look like, right? And what I would also say is, you know, I don't know about you, I don't know how long you were in the classroom, but I just I felt like, I felt like we've taken so many steps backwards in public education, and there's been like, lowering standards in so many areas. And when I saw the video how, for example, you could almost, like, clone yourself with instructional videos and actually increase direct instruction and increase the ratio of learning at a given time, it's like, wow, this is, this is the first thing that I've seen a while that's really raising student expectations and what a classroom can be and the potential for a classroom. And so you know, my own modern science classroom, like often, has a lot of things going on at once, different experiments, different activities, different packets, instructional videos, notes, still trying to find out how to how to balance it all, especially with revisions like. That's my biggest kind of goal for next year, to work on revising work. But like I said, that video just hooked me in did the virtual mentorship over the summer. Shout out to my mentor, who's also a CPS science teacher, and this is my I would say, you know, this is my first year doing it, but I'm hooked, and I'm so excited to to have so much more in place where I'm not constantly planning so much next year.

Toni Rose Deanon  5:29  
So yeah, this is such a fascinating journey, too, right? I know that there are so many different venues or journeys of how teachers come to the profession, and I'm a huge fan of y MCA. So this really dope for you to say, like, Oh, this is the first job, working with students, or working with kids is actually such a vibe. And I love it, right? And, and I have to, and I relate so hard when you said, like, in your evaluations, it was a student centered piece that were that was getting you lots of critiques and judgment, right? So I think for me, it was differentiation, like I would sit and argue with admin, of like, you've never taught me how to differentiate. So how are you going to take points off? This doesn't make any sense, right? It's like, okay, cool. I hear you. I know that I'm lacking that, but can you also teach me how to do it? And there was never a clear pathway of how to do it, and that would that became such a tension between me and admin that actually had to leave the school because I was like, you keep docking points off and you're not teaching me. So this is actually not a conducive like learning environment for me. So thank you for pointing that out, and I know that this model really did for me, highlight what it means to differentiate, what it means to be student centered, what it means to actually reach every student's needs. And so thank you for naming that. Because I was just like, oh, that's me too. It's me too. It's me too. The only the other statement that you said too that I was in the classroom for 10 years, Mike, so a while, and I always told myself that after 10 years, I was going to take a break. So I was an instructional coach after never thought I would leave a school. And so this transition to working with educators through a nonprofit like modern classroom was never even in my pipeline dream. So this is really interesting for me to navigate conversations with school leaders and educators about how to continue innovating classroom settings, right? Like learning environments, and so for you to name, like, Hey, we're taking steps back, or, yeah, we're taking steps backwards. And I think it's it all, not maybe all, but there's the resistance piece, there's the hesitancy piece, there's also the fear piece, and also just the fact that, like, oh, covid was such a time, right? That I just want to go back to what it was before. And I think there's like, this fight to go back to what it was before. And I'm like, No, we actually can't we that? Yeah? So lots of feelings there. And then, of course, you know you're saying, like, this is your first year implementing the model. So there's a lot of iterations that still need to happen. And I think this is a nice reminder, too, for educators, for our listeners, that this model is not a like a solution for all of your problems. Like it doesn't mean that things are going to stop with education. There's lots of iterations that need to happen. And like you said, revisions is something that you want to do better. And I think that's another thing that I love about education, is that it's never, we're never at the end, there's always something to work on. So I'm excited to see your growth throughout your implementation, and I'm also really excited to hear that your mentor is a fellow CPS science teacher. Like, how dope is that? That's really cool. Yeah. Yeah. So I think you know, for for this episode, we're going to be talking about, like, a plethora of things, because I know that one of my colleagues, Lisa Doty, talked so highly of you, and I was like, I bet, like, we got to get Mike in right. Let's talk about his his teaching and learning practices. So let's dive right into it. So you've been really critical of technology in schools, and I am interested in hearing more about that. How have you navigated the MCP framework with being pragmatic with tech?

Mike Friedberg  9:10  
You know? I mean, even before covid, you know, my previous school pilot, piloted science curriculum, and it was so computer based. And, yeah, there was some hands on stuff. But I just noticed kids just again, this is pre covid, pre remote learning. Kids were just zoning out, like, in front of Chromebooks, right? And I just feel like one. I've seen some learning apps almost used as, like, busy work, right? As opposed to instruction, right? I do think they can be, like, beneficial in, like, small doses, like supplemental, but that's one and two. Like I said, I just feel like kids sometimes zone out, like I know that I zone out and if I'm in front of a screen too long, right? And I'm an adult, so I can't imagine how it could would. And the other thing that I think most teachers noticed during covid, you know, you. For whatever reason, kids put, I think, less thought into electronic work than paper and pencil, right? I don't have a paper to back that up, but I've just noticed that, right? And I have all my students, I have a lot of paper based things. My playlist with my instructional videos are obviously all digital, so they have their Chromebooks, but every response they have to handwrite, they do complain. I said, Okay, you can complain all you want. That's the way it works for some of my eighth grade units. I have packets that I've made, but I just feel like, you know this what the other thing I love about my classroom is, I feel like, if we're, if we're pragmatic about tech, such as a teacher making their own instructional videos, that's not busy work, right? That's, that's increasing ratio, right, the amount of learning happening at a given time, right? That's almost like, as like, cloning myself, right? So other other students can, you know, practice a physics problem, or whatever. So I have been critical of tech. I think it, I think it has to be used pragmatically. But I think example for modern classroom, if it's like an instructional video that I'm making where more students can learn, you know, do guided practice, whatever that it can be really beneficial. And the main thing is, like I said, I'm balancing with my own room, where I'm having kids write things out by hand and doing a lot of paper based work, or posters or whatever, and I'm seeing them put that effort in that I personally have not seen as much with digital submissions.

Toni Rose Deanon  11:32  
You know, you've given me a couple of things to think about, as far as the comments of less thought on digital versus paper. You know, there have been a lot of research on how handwriting is actually way more impactful when it comes to learning things rather than typing it out. And so this, this would make sense, right? Especially, again, with the covid, with the push of one to one and then the there's a lot of not a lot, but there was definitely a lack of support on how to manage like, different devices, right? And you know, you're thinking about being more intentional with technology, and because, again, we have so many tech tools to choose from, right? And we can get so distracted by all the tech tools wanting to implement that, but really, it just equates to busy work, or even just like, really, like in the beginning stages of learning, of the Bloom's Taxonomy, right, of just like identifying and defining and not necessarily creating and applying their knowledge. And so I, I completely agree with you about how technology definitely needs to be a lot more intentional. And I also think that, because there is a lack of support. Like, you know, teachers are always just been like, Here you go. Do it yourself. Figure it out yourself. We don't know what to do with it, so I'm sure you have all the time to do whatever it is you need to do with it.

Mike Friedberg  12:51  
Yeah, I feel like we've always just figured stuff out. That's kind of like the nature of the profession. And actually, one thing that I love about the modern classroom framework is, you know, my mentor isn't saying, This is what you have to do. It's like, here's this guidance, here's the playlist, here's my mastery checks. Now you go do it yourself, you make your own version of it. And that's actually saying that I really love. And actually went to Clinton, which you may have heard of, which is a CPS school it's all modern classroom. Ironically, I used to live across the street from there for five years before I even knew what modern classroom was. And it was so cool to go into different classes, and none of them looked like mine at all, in a great and I mean that in a really good way, like they all had their own versions, right? Whether it was like I use the spreadsheet Progress Tracker where it was kids, you know, primary kids moving their their names on a Velcro board, right? Or book clubs, or, you know, different math mastery checks. Like, none of it looked like mine at all. The science one didn't look like mine. And I think that's awesome. Like, the modern classroom framework gives you this autonomy to make it work for you?

Toni Rose Deanon  14:01  
Yeah, it's the ownership, right? Because, because as educators, we're so used to being given something and being like you got to do it this way, and then that we become resentful. We become I know for me, I, like, hated a lot of the curriculum that I had to work with, and I hated especially when I had scripted curriculum. So now you're telling me I have to say certain things a certain way. And so with the model, I think again, a favorite saying that we have here is there's no one right way to implement the model. It is essentially like, what are your strengths and skill sets as an educator? What has been working well for you, and then how can we continue to enhance that when implementing this model? So I'm really glad that you got a chance to check out Clinton. I'm a huge fan of Clinton. There's so many dope teachers there. 

Mike Friedberg  14:47  
Amazing, unbelievable. Yeah, yeah.

Toni Rose Deanon  14:50  
It's really, really, really cool. So, and I love that we have our demo day there, so we always show off Clinton. And I love that because, I mean, it is such you kind of. See it, right? You have to see it to believe it.

Mike Friedberg  15:02  
You have to see it. And what was really cool was they did a panel afterwards with not just teachers, but students. So I straight, I straight up said, how? I said to the kids, how are you motivated to do your dues and aspire to do is like, what works? And I was like, here's what I'm doing in my room. So it was so cool to have that, that dialog with them. It was, it was amazing, yeah,

Toni Rose Deanon  15:24  
and it's giving student agency as well, and and, and a platform to speak about their learning experiences, right? It really does create the student centered learning environment where students are part of the planning, and they give you all the feedback, and they love it when they feel heard. So I love that, that you were able to ask, like the customers, a question, and then they were able to share what their thoughts were. Okay, so let's shift a little about science. You know, I'm so curious how you chose science as your content because you did not like science as a kid, and you really struggled with it. So how does that shape your perspective as a science teacher? What made you interested in doing science?

Mike Friedberg  16:02  
Yeah, I hated science, and it's so funny, I can't imagine teaching anything else now. I never want to teach any other subject. Just what made me do it was when I was in back in school, people were saying, math, science, ESL, that's how you're going to get jobs. And, you know, this was like the Great Recession, where, where we thought there'd be a lot of job openings, but because of the Great Recession, there weren't right, so people weren't retiring, so it was much harder to get a job than it is now. So I think I feel like I almost flipped a coin between science and math. I think I had more credits for science, so I just decided to do that. I did get my ESL as well, and I was kind of one of those kids, those, like, smart mouth kids, like, why should I care about this? I don't care. How is it relevant to me? I mean, even in college, I remember I took this class that was like, four science teachers, and we had to memorize different types of birds. Then we went to the park and we had a quiz on the birds. I'm like, I don't care. Like, I don't care about different types of birds. I don't care. Why am I doing this? Right? So that's my lens with everything in my room. Like I'm that kid as a sixth, seventh, eighth grader, right? So, no, no, I'm going to explain to you why this is important, and we're trying. What I always tell my students is we're trying to figure out how the world works, and that's what's cool about science, and that what makes it unique, right? So I really got the science endorsement just because I out of necessity, right? There's a lot of humanities endorsements at the time, and then, like I said, I just kind of loved it. You know, the the teaching thing, where you where you see kids understand, there was a moment, actually in college, where, at the time, so I was working at the YMCA, and there was a YMCA by my house, and there was, there was a gym at my college, so I'd work out at all three and I noticed that on the cable machine, 30 pounds felt different, like, sometimes 30 pounds was harder on one machine than others. And the whole semester, I'm like, How could this be? And then my physics professor talks about the force of tension in cables in exercise machines. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, that's why, you know, this weight feels harder on this cable machine than the others. And so that's really like that moment is how I try to approach all my science classes, right? Like we're solving problems. We're figuring out how the world works. We're figuring out why this happens, right? I hate this buzzword, but it's relevant inquiry, right? Like we're trying to figure out how things work. And once you look at it that way, whether it's genetics, right, I have an autistic brother who came in yesterday for Autism Awareness Month, and all the kids were like, did some some kid was like, Did someone hit Copy and Paste on? Mr. Friedberg, right? He looks just like you. So connections like that with genetics, right where they see me and my brother, or a physics thing, like I have them build an egg drop device, and then we drop it off the third floor. Basically the opposite of memorizing different types of birds. Like nobody cares about different types of birds. It's not going to help you. I, as your science teacher, do not care, but we, we do care about things like genetics, and we do care about things like things breaking in physics, right? And chemistry can be aligned to cooking. So every single that, or, or I always use the example of cuts and scrapes, because they like to play sports with mitosis and cell division, right? So everything I try to make relevant to them, because that's how I was as a kid, and kind of still am now as an adult.

Toni Rose Deanon  19:46  
That's really funny. Um, speak for yourself about birds. Mike, okay, being this age, nearing 40, I'm like, ooh, birds are nice, actually. Why did I learn about birds?

Mike Friedberg  19:58  
Hey, Toni Rose, if. You were in my class, I could have you research some birds, but I would tell you, you know, I think you would be not the norm, right? I don't think most kids are like, I want to learn about types of birds, right? But when they see a thing, for example, with sports or genetics or something, that's like, oh, I can see this, right? I can experience this. Oh, here's an experiment. Oh, I like to cook. This is this type of reaction, right? Something that they can see or touch or experience, then it gives it a whole new meaning. 

Toni Rose Deanon  20:28  
Yeah, and you started it out with the why, right? It is so important for us to connect. Why are we learning this? Why is this important? Because I know in my own K 12 experience, we were not allowed to ask why we were learning stuff, right? It was just kind of like, well, it's because it's part of the test, because it's part of the standards. You need to know it. And it's like, that, actually, no, I don't need to learn it, yeah.

Mike Friedberg  20:51  
And then when you have that, you know, like, you know, this is this big topic in education now, right? With, like, student centered, right? Kind of like, oh, well, kids should research just what they're interested in, right? It's like, okay, like, so what are kids gonna spend the whole year playing like, fortnight and do a project on that, right? Like, do we just, you know, it's, it's funny, the thing that I said to my to my co worker, is, like, I feel like this term student centered is kind of misused, right? Like, do you think Toni Rose? You think the best athletes in the world go to coaches and be like, I want a client centered experience? Like, no, they want to be trained, right? And I feel like as teachers, like that is our job, right? So I don't I think student centered involves guidance, right? And so to me, that's what this framework can do, right? So, for example, kids have some choice. They have some autonomy. We're still guiding them, right? But we're also, we're not just saying, you have to learn this because it's on a state test. Like, I, at least I'm not. I'm saying, like, Hey, we're trying to figure out how the world works. You know, whether it's chemistry in your kitchen or exercise equipment or sports or, you know, you got to cut your cells dividing. We're trying to figure out how the world works, and that's why, you know we're doing this. It's not just for a state test.

Toni Rose Deanon  22:17  
Yeah, I really like Mike, your your definition, slash perspective on student centered. Because I do think that people may, you know, there's a lot of skewed definition of what student centered means. I mean, yes, I heard you say that there's lots of feelings about relevant inquiry, right? And because, again, that's another word that I feel like has been used a lot of just like making it relevant, it is important to make things relevant. And making it important is tying it in with the why? Why are we learning this? Because we want to learn about how the world functions. And you're absolutely right. As far as, like, you know what? I want to create a student centered space. But student centered means giving them, you know, giving students choice, giving them guidance, giving them autonomy, giving them voice to actually advocate for what it is they're learning about and also how they can learn. And I think, like you said, with this framework, students are able to voice those things right? They are able to make those connections on their own as well, sometimes with or even not, sometimes, maybe a lot of the times with their peers as well, because there's a lot more collaboration and authentic conversations happening. So I really like that you pointed that out as far as what student centered learning actually means, because you're right, I don't think I've had an opportunity to dig deeper into what that means and how people define that.

Zach Diamond  23:36  
Hey, there, listeners, this is Zach. Just got a couple announcements and reminders for you. Are you ready to transform your classroom conversations? Join us for Book Club Session Two on October 30, at 7pm eastern to explore the shift to student led by Catlin Tucker and Katie Novak, with a focus on workflow shift two, moving from whole group teacher led discussions to student led small groups discover strategies that give students the reins, Spark deeper dialog and create meaningful collaboration. Let's rethink discussions together. MCP will be exhibiting at ASA fall leadership conference from October 26 to the 28th in Tucson, Arizona. Dr Cecilia Gillam, Corey Henwood, wavio and MCP are presenting at full scale symposium from October 25 to the 28th and Miguel Melchor will be presenting at WIDA Consortium from October 27 to the 30th in Seattle, Washington. If you're attending, make sure to drop by and say hi. Links are in the show notes, of course, for more info and to register, but for now, let's get back into it with TR and Mike.

Toni Rose Deanon  24:48  
Okay, you know in the beginning you had mentioned that you were really into music, so I'm curious, how is music showing up in your classes, and how you know you also said like you didn't. You start college, you were focused on underground music to I don't even know what underground music is, Mike, so you're gonna have to school me on this. But how did you choose this profession?

Mike Friedberg  25:11  
Man, I don't even know where to start. I so first off, I don't know. I don't a lot of my stuff is personal in terms of, like, what, you know, I feel like, you know that, how do you do fellow kids meme? I don't want to come off like that, right? I'm not trying to be like cringy, you know. I mean, I was involved in the punk scene in Chicago. I mean, I still am, but just like, I don't have as much free time, but like, for me, it was like, I did a fanzine. My friend and I started a record label when we were in high school. We put out five records, and I thought, like going on tour and bands and like, I thought that was going to be my whole life. And those things are great. And I have people, you know, most of my I have a lot of friends who still do those things. But what I also saw was that some of those people, not all, but some of them just went from job to job that they just hated, right? I would say the one, a lot of the ones that are actually still doing it, found some kind of sustainable career, right, even if it wasn't a formal education, like starting a construction business or a painting business or whatever. And then some of them did get a more formal education path, but I just saw some of my friends involved with music, and they were just going from one terrible job to another. They were just miserable. And I just came to this epiphany. It's like, I don't want I don't know what I want to do, but it's not this. You know, I was just going from one just like job that I hated to another, just like looking at the clock when it's a shift gonna end and and, oh, seven. I ended up, I think that year, I worked like, seven or eight different jobs. It was really bad, and I ended up moving back in with my parents. And I was like, like, again, I don't know what I want to do, but it's not this. And I was like, I'm just gonna stay start taking class at the local community college. So shout out, Oakton community college, my alma mater. And that's when I started working at the local Y MCA. And I was like, this is I just started volunteering there. I just I literally went in after a shift at this crappy copy shop that I worked at. And I was like, Do you guys need any volunteers? Like, I had no plan or anything. And they were like, Yeah, we do. We have this tutoring center upstairs. Have you ever tutored anyone? I was like, No, but I'll give it a shot. And then within, I don't know, two months, I was like, the tutoring center supervisor, and then I was working the after school program. And again, like I said, it was the first job that I really didn't hate. I was like, wow, this is, this is fun and fulfilling, like, in a way that, you know, working at a grocery store was not. And no shout out to people who work at grocery stores or anywhere, you know, it just like, I was like, I don't want to work at Whole Foods for the rest of my life. You know, I don't want to, I don't want to do that. And working with kids, like I said, was fulfilling. And I actually thought I would stay with the YMCA. I was like, I'm gonna get this degree as a backup. And then, you know, just like having a union and benefits and pension and flexibility that you don't always get in a non for profit. Like, it's like, I'm gonna do this. And it's not that I wouldn't work for a non for profit again, I would. But I'm also a proud union member, and I, you know, that's something I want to keep doing, and I love having those benefits and whatnot. But, yeah, that's so my path is atypical. Toni Rose, like, you know, some people are like, I want to be a teacher my whole life. I mean, I, not only did I not, but for me, it was more just like, I want a job I don't hate, you know, and I found it,

Toni Rose Deanon  28:50  
yeah, and I'm so happy to hear that teaching is not a job that you hate, because I feel like we do have enough people in the teaching profession, too

Mike Friedberg  28:57  
many jobs, too many like go. This is what I say, like, if you, if you don't like, if you don't like it, you should leave. Because you, because kids. You know, if I work at a coffee shop and I burn coffee, nobody's hurt. But kids are people with feelings and emotion. You have too many people who don't care, who should just leave. Yeah. So I'm passionate about my job, and that's what I expect from teachers everywhere. And that doesn't mean too I don't get discouraged with systemic issues, but I still give it 100% to my students every day. Yeah.

Toni Rose Deanon  29:26  
And I also say, like, you know, if you're someone who's really struggling with finding the passion in your teaching career, it's like you deserve more actually. Go explore the passions, right? Go live the life that you actually want to live. Because our students also deserve someone who is like as passionate about the things that they're doing. So highly recommend, like, go find the thing that you're passionate about, because the life is way too short for us to stay in a crusty, crusty environment, right? And of course, thinking about the systemic pressures and like, the injustices and inequalities, I also want to take that into consideration. So, but okay, yeah, no, these are, these are so great. Shout out to your community college. I feel like we don't give them enough credit. It's so much cheaper also than college. I feel like if I knew that that was an option for me, I definitely would have taken that route and as a teacher, as a person who was like, I am going to be a teacher, that is what I want to do. You know, you're talking about working in Whole Foods. Me being in education since 2010 I'm like, wow, wouldn't it be nice to, like, turn off my brain and work at a grocery store so that I don't have to keep thinking

Mike Friedberg  30:32  
about all the things, you know, what my brain does go back there. Sometimes I'm like, I kind of want a job where I can just punch in and punch out. So it has. I love what I do, but there's definitely times where I'm like, I kind of miss just punching in and out and not thinking about

Speaker 1  30:48  
it. Yeah. I mean, there was this Tiktok video that I saw of a teacher who had like, a clicker of every time he had to answer a question. I saw that. I saw that. I don't know how to find it again, but y'all, if y'all haven't seen it, like, check like, he was just like, clicking and I think at the end of the day he was, I think maybe lunch, he was already at like, 500 questions. And so, like, our brain is just constantly answering questions, constantly making decisions as well. So it is very tiring. And so I always like play around with like, oh man. How cool would it be to have a job where I can just like, you know, clock in, clock out, see how that works. I worked at McDonald's for the longest time. Mike and I fantasize about working at McDonald's sometimes, because I'm like, I just got to worry about the chicken nuggets.

Speaker 2  31:37  
I mean, I mean, yeah, I I hear you like, there's times where I would Oh, McDonald's, or some job where I could just punch in and punch out. Sounds pretty good. Sometimes, some days, for sure,

Speaker 1  31:50  
some days, yeah, definitely not like a long term thing, but definitely some days now, would I actually do it? Probably not, but I do daydream about it. Yeah, yeah. Definitely daydream about it. So I really love getting to know you as a human being, because it does just show like, oh, here all of your passions and your interests that are shining and like, kind of helping you be this educator that you are now for your students, which is really, really dope. So we're going to shift to like, this success criteria that you have, that you created for your students to use as they navigate their learning journey, right? So I am curious tell us a little bit more about the success criteria. How do you define it? How do you communicate it with your students, especially middle school,

Mike Friedberg  32:30  
yeah. So, so this has been a school wide initiative. I teach in the Pilsen community at Orozco Academy, and I just want to shout out to my co workers and admin and also parents as well, who this has been a school wide initiative, right? So it definitely has been a learning process. So what we're one of the prior our, our CI, WP priorities, which is like, it's like the school kind of priorities is students like tracking their learning and monitoring their progress, and that totally fits with modern classroom, right? Like the kids have their own Progress Tracker where they can access their row, but the success criteria beyond that, we wanted kids to start kind of go having, like a step by step checklist of what they need to, need to do to be successful. So now, like on my on all my playlists, I'm redoing a bunch. Shout out to my co worker, Millie, who is way better with laying things out, who was very radically candid with my first one, and she redid it, and it looks way better. And the kids actually said that, and they thanked her, which I thought was really funny. But on there, now I have success criteria. So they have a packet and they check off each things. And I think especially for a science experiment, anything with the procedure, you know, I want to make sure that, you know, kids will say like, Oh, we didn't do this, right? So they have their packet and they check it off. Oh, we need to do this, right? Did we add the BTB solution to see if oxygen is present, right? Did we dilute the copper chloride? Did we use our spring scales or whatever, right? So, you know, some activities I have like, three different success criteria for the activity. Some I have, like, closer to 10. If it's more complex, I don't want to overwhelm the kids at all, but it's something we've been doing as a school, and it's also too we're building that as a school culture. So hopefully the kids know, like, oh, this was the success criteria I had in, you know, third grade. Oh, I'm Oh, it's the same thing that I've been doing for a few years, and I know to track my progress when I get to middle school science, yeah, 

Toni Rose Deanon  34:43  
and there's that vertical and horizontal alignment, right? Like, it's really nice for students to see it, not just in a middle school science classroom, but also math, also, you know, ela, or PE or whatever. So you actually shared a resource with us, which, thank you so much. So I actually get to see a visual on this. So listeners will put that in the show notes you can actually see. So you can actually see the example that Mike is talking about or that you know shared with us. And so yeah, and kudos to your your colleague, who ramped it up like revamped it to make it a little bit more accessible for students and a more appealing, right,

Mike Friedberg  35:18  
way more appealing. I'm just not, I'm not great with layout. I'm just being honest. And and Millie, again, she's the one who originally showed me my own classroom. She's like, No, no, I'm fixing this. And so, yeah, so now and now it's, but most importantly, like, it's, it's user friendly for kids to track their progress. And that's the purpose, 

Toni Rose Deanon  35:39  
yeah, and I think that's, that's, that's the beauty of it is, like making it user friendly, because we want to be clear and transparent with the expectations, right? Like, I know, with MCP, it really pushed for me to actually name what I expect students to create, as opposed to just being like, you know, whatever you come up with,

Mike Friedberg  36:01  
right? Right. 

Toni Rose Deanon  36:02  
So this is, this is a really nice example. Thank you for sharing that with us. And I'm sure your students really appreciated just the fact that you were able to kind of go along with the change, right? Like, knowing, yeah, it's the formatting that's not it for me, but I'll have the content, I'll have all the things. It's just a formatting that I needed and then, and it just seems like you have really great conversations with your students, and so I love that. Okay, so you know, let's talk about feedback. I know that you had also talked about how you wanted to improve revisions. Can you tell us a little bit more about how that looks like right now and what you plan to do for the following school year?

Mike Friedberg  36:38  
Yeah, how it looks like now is, it's not great, like, it's definitely my biggest area of growth, I would say, for any first year, modern classroom teacher. Like, I even think after, I think the program should consider, I mean, I know my mentor is still available, but even maybe the mentorship should continue without throughout the first year, right? And I also know I could have reached out to my mentor. He's great. He would have, he would have answered anything. But I, you know, again, my co worker was like, why don't you do one grade at a time? And I was like, no, no, I want to do all three. And I wish I would have listened to her, because it was so it was so much at first, it even just like I had these bins for science materials, and I have a thing on the board where to get stuff, and it was just a lot to juggle. So my that's my biggest area of growth, for sure, is revisions, right, whether it's a mastery check or student work or whatever. And part of the issue is with that is I also feel the sometimes I feel like I need to be in front of the classroom to answer questions, to, you know, direct students, to make sure students are doing things well, right? So, like, physically, I'm in front of the room supervising, right? Because it's kind of a controlled chaos, like there's so much going on at once that I just hadn't really made revisions the priority. So what I'm really thinking with next year is I have this standing desk and trying, trying to be more student centered, and being a little more hands off, and letting students go gradually, and then trying pulling kids so, you know, maybe just seeing a few minutes at the end of the day. I have this daily slide thing that I have up on the board, and maybe just just adding a few notes like, okay, you know, revisions, just a few or I want to see a few students right at the beginning of class, right after we go over our objectives and success criteria. Right? Criteria, right? And even if it's just a few a day. I mean, I taught language arts before, and I we did a lot of conferencing, so I'm putting on my language arts teacher hat on, even if I'm even if it's just a little bit like, hey, this. This was your mastery check? Great. Let's do a mini lesson. Hey, you know, I have this Panther science exit slip rubric that I use. Basically, your responses weren't great, right? You got a I think I have, like exceeding as a four, you know, like mastery based grading, right? And if they're not giving me sufficient answers, you know, me modeling, right? Here's what a sufficient, here's what a four or exemplary would look like, right? Let's rewrite some of your answers to help you get there. So I don't know about other first year modern classroom teachers, but revision was definitely my biggest challenge, because I felt like I was so much of this was new to me. You know, this is not my first year teaching, but it almost kind of felt like it in a certain way, right? And I would guess that other modern classroom teachers stay say the same thing. So I really want to make revisions a priority next year, even if it's like some set time, maybe the last 10 minutes, or just something sustainable, right? Because there's a lot. When you have a modern classroom, especially, I will say a modern science classroom, where there's sometimes, like, five or six different experiments happening at a time, and then some kids are watching instructional videos, and some kids are doing mastery checks. There's just a lot happening at once in a great way, in a in a way that a classroom, in my opinion, should be. There's a lot of talking and exchanging ideas and sharing thoughts and like learning how the world works, as I always tell my kids, right? And so in that controlled chaos, I feel like I have to make revisions more of a priority. It's just falling to the wayside. So I have to figure out a structure, whether it's the first five minutes of class, the last 10 minutes, whatever, to make time not have time, make time for revision so that kids can achieve mastery.

Toni Rose Deanon  40:44  
Yeah, I really appreciate that. I really just appreciate you trusting me to share your reflections, because I think that there was a lot of honest question, honest responses there, right of like, Yeah, I did a lot more. I bit off more than I could chew. I definitely should have listened to the less is more thing. And I think sometimes, you know, when teachers, we get excited, we want to do all the things all at once. And so it's a great way to be able to see, like, what works, what doesn't work. I taught, I taught English and revisions were the ones that I really struggled with prior to MCP, actually. And then when I implemented the model, I was like, oh, wait a minute, there's time for revision. And we got really good with revision, and so I'm excited to hear like, what you create for next school year on how to revamp this, reiterate it, make it so much better for you and your students. Because, like you said, it is a first time implementing, and it does sometimes feel like it's your first year of teaching, because it's just so different than what you're used to. So thank you for sharing that. And again, keep me posted, because I'd love to hear how you toy around with that.

Mike Friedberg  41:52  
I will. I'm actually, I was actually just emailing back and forth with my mentor, so he's actually going to try to come to see me. So shout out. Said, Yeah. And so I think I'm gonna reach out to him, especially as the new school year starts, for like structures, for revisions, specifically in a science classroom, yeah.

Toni Rose Deanon  42:09  
And I was thinking too, I think that we do offer an opportunity or an option for teachers to continue on for the school year with their mentors. I don't know how that looks. I need to be up to date with that stuff, but I think that is an option. And I know when I was a mentor, this was back in like 2020 I was just accessible for all of my mentees. Of like, Hey, you have a question, just ask, and I'll be here as a thought partner. So yeah, I think it all depends on the mentors as well. And like, your relationship with the mentor. I always tell teachers to like, hey, advocate for yourself. Like you want us to advocate. You know you want students to advocate. Students to advocate for themselves. I Please advocate for yourself as well. Like, if you need help, please reach out and ask for help. We don't want you to do this by yourself. We want you to have a thought partner. We want you to have some kind of support so that you don't feel alone and overwhelmed. And so, you know, thank you for answering all of that. And I do want to make another shift, and this one's really interesting to me. This one kind of caught my attention because you and I were talking about, you know, the questions that we want to discuss in this, in this podcast, is the Danielson Framework. Let's talk about it. 

Mike Friedberg  43:16  
Let's talk about Charlotte Danielson.

Toni Rose Deanon  43:19  
Yeah, let's, let's talk about it, because I've had lots of questions about this too. Mike, like, hey, my school uses the Danielson Framework. How is this going to impact my teacher evaluation? So in case people don't know what the Danielson Framework is, it is used as a teacher evaluation or rubric to see how teachers are doing in the classroom.

Mike Friedberg  43:39  
Yeah, it's so funny. I was talking about this a few hours ago because my former student is going to be my student teacher next school year, which is crazy. Oh, that's exciting, and it makes me feel old. So she has questions. She's really hard working. Shout out. Pollyanna Giacomo, just awesome person. And I was trying to kind of give her a breakdown, a basic breakdown, you know, of like Daniel said framework. So again, I was always docked points for, you know, things weren't student centered enough, right? And again, I feel like this is one of those terms that's just kind of misused, right? Like, okay, what, what is true student centeredness look like? Because I also know that to get to kids, to to be more independent, to get more autonomy, it's going to take a lot of teacher centered modeling to get there, right, whether, whether we like it or not. And again, I wasn't really shown what a student centered classroom would look like, until I saw modern classroom like administrators didn't really show me that. So that's number one. The other thing I would say, in general, even outside of modern classroom, is, you know, it's going to depend on your administration. I mean, my admin has given me a ton of autonomy, and I'm really grateful for them, right? And they did not have to do that, but I I basically said, like, look like, like, there was a prescribed curriculum, right? And I was like, if you give me autonomy, kids will learn way more, and kids will love science. And they signed off, and it's, in my opinion, been really successful. So the Danielson Framework is a way that teachers are evaluated for the non teachers listening to this, there's four domains, and it started off as an evaluative framework, but it's, I'm sorry, I started off as a reflective framework and became an evaluative framework, right? For better or worse, I think it's pretty much used now by like almost every school district in the country, or at least a lot in Chicago Public Schools, was one of the first year, was one of the first districts to use it, right? So it was, and that was actually my first year teaching 2012 so it's this framework, and you get evaluated, and there's different domains, and basically, to me, like part of I forget what it's like, the classroom environment or whatever, and part of it is like that, student autonomy, student agency, student centeredness. And you know, there are certain things that great teachers do, whether it's a modern classroom or a non modern classroom, but you know, things like modeling, right? Things like guided Release of Responsibility, right? Things like frequent checks for understanding. So those things I think should happen, whether you do modern classroom or not. But my, I mean, I have a there's a parent volunteer here who was in the classroom, and we've become friends, and she came in collecting money. She's like, What is this? And she was like, floored, and she and I sent her a video about modern classroom. And, you know, so she's been evaluated, right? She knows what goes into it. And to me, it's like, yeah, that that, you know, ratio of student learning and time that checks for understanding. You can do all those things with the mastery check. Like to me, it can align really well. To Danielson, you know, I was a teacher. I mean, I didn't like I have not always gotten good ratings. I'm going to be very transparent. I was on a professional development plan for poor ratings, right? And to be honest, I felt like I should have been more assertive and fought for my ratings, and I regret that I was way too passive, right? Because I didn't deserve those ratings. But regardless, I'm very confident now about my praxis and my pedagogy, and when I think administrators see the autonomy that kids have, when they see the growth that students can do using the modern classroom framework, I think it's going to get admin more and more on board.

Toni Rose Deanon  47:44  
This also reminds me to, or not really remind, but a reminder for our educators listening, for our listeners, that, yeah, definitely be assertive about your scores, right? Have those conversations. Let's not be passive about it. Ask questions of like, What do you mean by this? What do you because, you know, again, we want our students to do the same, so we want to do it as adults as well. So thank you for sharing that too. And I know that the Danielson Framework, it's like the there's the planning and preparation, the learning environment. And I think it was like another piece too, but I've just heard a lot of, not a lot, but a handful of teachers asking about how implementing the model could impact their teacher evaluation. So I'm really glad that you brought this up, too, because I feel like there, there should be even more of an conversation about it, just so that we can kind of alleviate some stressors from educators who are concerned about that, and then, as well as open up conversations with school leaders about like, Hey, this is the teacher evaluation. Let's talk about how MCP actually shows up in all of these different domains that we're talking about. So beautiful. Thank you for kind of letting me pick your brain about that, because I think this is just an opening conversation with like stuff that I may create later on down the road about, you know, what the Danielson Framework could look like with MCP. So Mike, I know we've been all over the place with this episode, and I love it because it's still, you know, just again, showing that we are human beings. We're talking about different things that have really impacted how we show up in the classroom, and how excited and passionate we are, as far as you know, making sure that our students are good and taken care of, and they feel successful. So what do you hope to see in the future, and what goals do you have?

Mike Friedberg  49:24  
I mean, just, just personal. I mean, I have two kids. I want them to be successful, and, you know, I want them to be as confident as I am now, because I wasn't super confident as a kid. And they're, they're growing, for sure. So that's like priority number one for me. And then professionally, I mean, I want, I want to show others. I personally want to train other teachers here in modern classroom framework. Of course, they have to, like, buy in, right? And I also realized, recognizing that, you know what I've always said with. Admin is, if you're if you're giving us something else to do, you have to take something off, right? So my classroom has a lot, so I'd also have to get my admin on board with like, Hey, you guys would have to take stuff off. And if they can't, then probably not as many people can get on board with it, but, yeah, I want, and even if people don't do the full like, all components of modern classroom, like I've even seen, like, when I was at Clinton, I saw a wide range of stuff, like I saw teachers who didn't make their own instructional videos, right? And they sometimes use, like, a Khan Academy video or an Edutopia video, but, or, I'm sorry, Ed puzzle, but everything else they made like they had their playlist, they had their activities, all that. So I yeah, I want to show others what it's about. I mean, I'm going to do the distinguished educator program. I want to do that. I want to mentor others with the framework. But I just feel like stuff like this can really help get kids engaged. And like I said, I just feel like we've taken so many steps backwards in education, like in every way. We've lowered expectations in so many ways, and this is like the one beacon of light that I see in the way to make education better.

Toni Rose Deanon  51:16  
And we would love to have you as a DMC and a mentor, so we're going to manifest that into into fruition. And another thing I wanted to say too, is that it all also depends on admin, the school leadership, right? Because I think school leadership have a lot more power of creating time for teachers to create the resources that they need to create and provide resources as well. Like, hey, here's a screen recording, screen pal, right? Or Ed puzzle that you can utilize to create the instructional videos and and so there's just so many ways that school leaders can uplift and empower educators into creating this space. So I really want to highlight that as well. So because I know Clinton, the school that you and I were talking about, they have great leadership there that they're like, Okay, what do you need from me? Cool, we're gonna make that happen. And so I love, love, love that. Love that part. And so, Mike, how can our listeners connect with you?

Mike Friedberg  52:12  
My Twitter is m Friedberg, teach, that's the main thing. So I'm not on there a ton, but I do check it so they can reach out to me there. And, you know, even just connecting with others, and I would love to, especially not just non science, not just science teachers, but I love hearing, you know, just general, like modern classroom success stories and strategies, especially teachers who are good at who are good at revisions, feel free to reach out to me, because that's my biggest area of growth for sure.

Toni Rose Deanon  52:41  
Oh, I love that so much. Well, Mike, this has been such a pleasure. I've really enjoyed getting to know you as a human being. So thank you for sharing your experience and expertise with us.

Mike Friedberg  52:51  
Thank you Toni Rose, it was an honor. Thank you so much.

Zach Diamond  52:59  
Thank you so much for listening. Listeners, remember, you can always email us at podcast at modern classrooms.org and you can find the links to topics and tools we discussed, as well as more info on this week's announcements and events in the show notes for this episode at podcast dot modern classrooms.org We'll have this episode's recap and transcript uploaded to the modern classrooms blog on Friday, so be sure to check there or check back in the show notes for this episode if you'd like to access those. And if you enjoy our podcast and it's been helpful in supporting you to create a blended, self paced, mastery based learning environment, we would love if you could leave a review that does help other folks find our podcast, and of course, you can always learn the essentials of our model if you want to go beyond the podcast through our free course at Learn dot modern classrooms.org and you can follow us on social media at modern class. Proj, that's P, R, O, J, we are so appreciative of all the hard work you do for students and schools. Have a great week, and we'll be back next Sunday with another episode of the modern classrooms project podcast. You.

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