Zach Diamond 0:03 Welcome to the modern classrooms project podcast each week we bring you discussions with educators on how they use blended, self paced and mastery based learning to better serve their students. We believe teachers learn best from each other, so this is our way of lifting up the voices of leaders and innovators in our community. This is the modern classrooms project podcast. Hello and welcome to the modern classrooms project podcast. My name is Zach Diamond, and I'm a high school media production teacher in Washington, DC, and of course, I'm a modern classrooms implementer. And today I'm joined by Erin Luckhardt and Michele Deming, who are co teachers of future educator Academy, which is a career tech ed class. And we're also joined, and I'm super excited about this part, by one of their former students, Eve Willoughby, who is a college student pursuing a career in elementary education. So welcome to all three of you, Erin, Michele and Eve, welcome to the podcast. Erin Luckhardt 1:04 Thanks. We're excited to be here. Eve Willoughby 1:06 Hello. Michele Deming 1:07 Thank you. Zach Diamond 1:09 Of course, I'm excited to have you. We have a lot to talk about today, and I'm super excited to be talking about CTE career and technical education. But before we get into that, let me hear a little bit more about you all introduce yourselves to our guest. Tell us more about who you are and how you started your education and modern classrooms journeys. And I guess Eve you're like right at the beginning of your education journey. So that's a really fun story to get to hear too. Michele Deming 1:34 Hello, everybody. My name is Michele Deming, and I am getting ready to go into my 29th year with education, and I'm going to be shifting and focusing on consulting either with new teachers, CTE teachers, or anybody that's needing support. How I started with MCP. I love the story, because it just kind of organically happened. So prior to covid, the shutdown, I was in a space, oh goodness, this was probably year 2022, for me, and I just felt like I wasn't having the impact that I wanted to have. And I think if we had asked my students, they probably would say the same thing. We were kind of just passing papers back and forth. I was, you know, grading assessments. Students, yep, they got a score, but I'm not sure they really cared or knew what they had learned. And we both felt it. Then covid happens, and I took the time. Thankfully, my co teacher, Aaron lukehart, was leading a book study with a focus on blended learning. It was new to me in my career, because I had, you know, kind of perfected the orchestra. I was leading the orchestra day to day, doing pretty well with it, but knew something was missing. I enrolled in the book study, and I actually was invited to speak on mastery, grading, standards based grading along those lines, the experiences that I was dabbling in, and one of the teachers who was a participant, also an MCP mentor, expert mentor, pulled me aside after and said, I think you need to look at this. You are really close with what you're doing, and you're going to love the support that MCP offers. And then it just kind of took off from there. Zach Diamond 3:37 That's awesome. Yeah, I love that. I mean, that's definitely, you know, doing this podcast, we hear that that kind of a story a lot, right? Where, like, it wasn't working, you know, we everybody knew it, the kids knew it, the teachers knew it. And I think it's really interesting, though, how you sort of converged with MCP and, like, came to the same, same conclusions, right? I think it's a, it's a testament to how these are, like, best practices, right? It doesn't have to be modern classrooms. Capital M, capital C, capital P, like, it's, it's the stuff that just that works the best in classrooms. And I guess MCP has done a good job, kind of bottling it and making a model that's accessible, but that's, that's awesome. Eve How about you? You're like, just starting your education journey. So tell us, I guess, what made you want to pursue education and where you're headed, Eve Willoughby 4:23 I would say what made me want to pursue education was definitely taking this future educator class as a senior in high school. Going into it, I was really unsure about education. I kind of, like, didn't know what I wanted to do at all, and I kind of gave it a shot and ended up, like falling in love with it. So I just graduated this spring from an early college program, so I got my high school diploma with an Associates of Arts, and I'm transferring, or I guess I'm going to be a freshman at Northern Michigan University this fall for elementary education. Really exciting, Zach Diamond 4:59 fantastic. Did you know, as when you were in this class about modern classrooms? I feel like, because it's an education class, maybe there was talk about that. Eve Willoughby 5:08 Yeah, I would say both Mrs. Who car and Mrs. I mean, were very like, I feel like, transparent, in person and online about like, what teaching strategies they were using when they were using modern classroom, they explained like, how that framework worked. And I felt like, as a student and as a future teacher, I was really aware of what they were doing, and it helped me kind of gain more knowledge about teaching. Zach Diamond 5:33 That's awesome. That's awesome. Erin, how about you? Erin Luckhardt 5:37 Yeah, thanks. Thanks for having us. My role is kind of a dual role. I get to co teach with Michele, which is so much fun, and then I'm also an instructional Tech coordinator. So I feel like in the past, I've been a blended learning coach. I've thought about mastery based grading when I was full time in a face to face classroom. I thought about self pacing. I've thought about flipped learning, and it kind of was like when I stumbled across Kareem podcast with Jennifer Gonzalez and called to pedagogy. I feel like lots of people saw that during covid, that was kind of this piece that led me into digging deeper into modern classrooms and figuring out how all of those things could come together in a framework that I could start with and then kind of just take and make our own. So I get to teach within this model, and also get to share the model through a couple of projects like across the whole state of Michigan, where we're trying to just bring more awareness to the model itself and benefits for teachers and students. Zach Diamond 6:40 Yeah, that's, that's awesome. And I think that's sort of how we got connected, right through Dana when, yeah, when she was on this podcast, she said to me, you need to get connected with Erin, because she's presenting this, this stuff on CTE in modern classrooms. And it's all really cool. So that's fantastic. So let's, let's get into it. The, I guess the supposed topic of this episode, although I feel like we could talk about a lot of different things, because we're all very much educators, talking about education. The topic is CTE, career and technical education. So I'd like to start the episode just defining what that is. We have had a couple of episodes related to CTE before, and I guess I can link them in the show notes. But let's for this, you know, self contained thing here. Let's define what CTE is. For any listeners who may not be familiar, sure, Erin Luckhardt 7:31 I'm actually going to steal Michele's language because I think she says it best. It's a high school opportunity to just kind of try it before you buy it, right? So you're exploring a career pathway. You're typically having some sort of kind of immersion into that pathway, whether it's shadowing, whether it's, you know, for our students, that means they're working with small groups and local classrooms. For other CTE classes, like a building trades class, maybe they're working on construction projects. There's hospitality classes where they're working on, you know, how do you kind of manage all aspects of like a restaurant industry? And so it's really just this awesome space where students are still in high school and they get to explore a career pathway. We love it because we feel like there's so much value in figuring out if this is a good fit for you before you get to college and are maybe 123, years down that pathway, and realizing like, Oh, I thought this was a good fit, and it's not. Michele and I learned after our first year, we always tell our students, if you figure out that teaching is the pathway for you, we're so excited for you. And if you figure out that teaching isn't the pathway for you, we're so excited for you. Like, both pieces are good information. Zach Diamond 8:49 Yeah, I also teach CTE now, this is my new my new life. And, yeah, it's like, we have survey classes essentially for freshmen in high school, right? And 100% like, it's great if you figure out that this is what you want to do. And to do, and we have classes for that. And it's also great if you figure out this is not what you want to do, and you can try something else, right? I think, personally, another really valuable part of CTE is, like, the the emphasis on career skills and and I guess career based work is that it's real work, like you're doing, the work that you would be doing in that career, which I think gives kids an opportunity to, like, get outside of the school mindset a little bit, which is really sort of like, ingrained from, you know, a very young age, and try out something that I, you know, I It's kind of weird to say this, but try out something that's real, right? Michele Deming 9:42 Yeah, so I spent 25 years in a traditional, mostly ninth grade US history classroom. Loved my time in that class. I you know, I'm passionate about history. Had the opportunity to shift into CTE and. And I don't say this lightly, but it's really the first time that I really felt like I was helping a student prepare for their future, whatever that might be, not that history isn't important, or math, or, you know, all of the different core subjects, but to really watch a student evaluate those skills, the work skills, the career related skills, and be able to identify whether it's a great fit. That's where I really felt like, this is, this is where I'm meant to be. Zach Diamond 10:32 Yeah, yeah. I feel that. I feel the same way, like I mentioned last year was my first year teaching in the high school at my school, teaching CTE, and I completely agree. Eve, do you? I guess I'm curious to hear, like, from the student perspective, as as somebody who this worked for, tell us about your experience. Like, how, how did you in this class? How did, how did the class make you realize, like, this is what I want to do. Eve Willoughby 10:55 I would say the biggest piece for that was definitely the placement experiences working with students, because learning about teaching is one thing, but actually being in a classroom with students makes a difference. For me, it was like, Absolutely, this is what I want to do. But there were, I mean, like Mrs. Luckhardt was saying there was a lot of people in my class who also figured it was not for them, and they're going in different directions now, which is really incredible, because I know people who are, you know, going into their senior year of college for education who haven't had classroom experience yet. So if they get into their, you know, student teaching time and they don't like it, they've already spent all that money. And for me, having the CTE class, like, saved me that. Zach Diamond 11:39 Yeah, that's what I meant. It's real, right? You actually go into the classroom, you interact with with students and and, yeah, you not only do you determine, make a determination for yourself and your future, you get the skills, right? I feel like it's so easy to idealize teaching and be like, Yeah, I want to be a teacher when I grow up, right? Like, imagining what it's like is one thing, but being in a classroom is obviously something very different, even though, as students, we're all in classrooms every day. You know, the teacher perspective is very different. Okay, so let's, let's talk a little bit about modern classrooms and CTE. I'm going to try and let you all talk, because I have a lot to say about modern classrooms and CTE, but how does the model help you to teach in this, I guess, real world context? And I'm also curious to hear how you teach the model if you do in this class, if you were sort of talking about that a little bit like because this is an education focused, career based class, I would imagine that there's discussion of the model as a as like an item in the curriculum, sort of, if that makes sense, maybe not. Maybe I'm wrong, but just in general, let's talk about modern classrooms and CTE. Erin Luckhardt 12:55 So I think a little bit of context that would be helpful, and where Dana saw us when we were presenting at the Aurora Institute conference is we are in kind of a rural northern Michigan. Two counties our CTE programs are set up in a consortium model. So we don't have a center. Some of the local counties have centers that all those students drive into. But because we have such a big geographic area and experience winter weather for a longer duration, maybe than most of most other counties in the state or other areas, driving into a center was not a super feasible option. So when we started to think about, how do we have enough students to run this program? We had to think differently and then kind of an innovative model. So rather than meeting in person, our students are a little bit more online. It's a hybrid class. We meet up for six full in person days throughout the school year, but otherwise, our students get their learning released in our learning management system on Monday. We connect with them synchronously on Tuesdays for about 45 minutes, and then later that week, early in the year, they're either working on their work or as the year progresses, they're spending time in their local classroom placements. So I think you know, one of the easy answers, like, how does MCP help us? Is we had to think differently about a way to be able to offer this class to our students that could be done online, but we wanted to make it meaningful. We wanted to support, kind of like those soft skills, but really like 21st Century Skills, durable skills, whatever you want to call them, like those super important skills that our students need as they grow and learn. So that's kind of the foundational piece of like we created this class four years ago with. We could do it differently, and the model has really helped us to be successful in that. Michele Deming 15:05 Yes, I'll take it one step further. So we're really intentional about modeling the model, right? So we we have blended instruction. We do our own instructional videos. We honor self pacing. We share a pacing tracker for the students at the beginning of the week. And I keep referencing I call it pre MCP, post MCP. So pre MCP in the traditional classroom, I thought I was doing a great job of helping students manage their time, but the key word is, I was doing the managing, right? I'm telling them what's anything. So in this hybrid, blended approach, we have students monitoring their own self, pacing tracker and reaching out if they're needing support. We kind of offer the support. So all of that being said when students are in their placements and start to take the the teacher eyes, the teacher role. We love when that happens, because students start to look at this class differently. They look through the teacher lens. They're looking in their own classes differently. And we just we're really good about asking questions. So if you have four groups of students that you're working with different levels of students, how are you going to meet their needs? And naturally, usually it comes back to either maybe an instructional video or a station that students could be at and work through. One might be a station for yourself, and then the self pacing. So we just really talk about ways that they can implement the model while they're living in the model. I'm not sure if that makes sense, but we like to be really, really upfront about Well, let's look at this, some of the things that we do for you, and then how might you apply that to the grade level that you're placed in? Zach Diamond 17:07 Yeah, I mean, it sounds to me like that's sort of one of the unique aspects of an education class that uses a particular model, right? Like I would imagine that in terms of being reflective and thinking about your learning, you're thinking about your teachers teaching as well, because that's what this class is. Eve Willoughby 17:23 The only thing I could quite think of as, I mean, as Mrs. Deming was saying, there was a lot of instances where, I mean, in different situations, we'd be like, in an in person meet up, and they would say, like, oh, you know, this is a teacher thing. We need to switch gears. We're running out of time. And they would narrate that kind of stuff as they were doing it, and with the modern classroom project, there were times they did that too, where we might be at the beginning of the year using our pacing tracker. And I feel like there were certainly time I can't remember specifics, but there were certainly times that they would ask, like, you know, how do you think this pacing tracker is like supporting you as a learner? How do you think you could use that with students? And throughout the year, I feel like it made us feel more comfortable with the model as a student, but also we saw a lot of ways we can use it as a teacher as well. Zach Diamond 18:10 Did you like in your work with students? Did you wind up using any of the aspects that your teachers were using? Eve Willoughby 18:16 Yeah, I did. We taught two small group lessons or large group lessons during the school year. And for the first one, I was in a sixth grade history class, and it was kind of interesting, because I taught it for like, a full day of kids, and because it wasn't a part of like a week of work, I couldn't quite use all of the aspects of modern classroom, but I used some of them, and I felt like it was helpful for me to design the lesson, and it was also helpful for the students to be able to like, target specific goals and like, make sure they were meeting mastery on them, Michele Deming 18:50 one of the roles that Erin and I, we also mentor CTE teachers. So I'm thinking about CTE teachers who may be listening to this, or somebody who might not be comfortable yet, and they're they're likely saying to themselves, because we see it happen over and over, boy, I just don't know how to I don't know how that's going to work. I just don't trust the students, or I'm not sure I have the skill set to do this. Or are you telling me that they are going to go from station to station? And I think Erin and I, we, the three of us, would just encourage people to try it, because once you start to realize that students want to engage, they just want to have the ability to do it at their own pace, maybe re watch an instructional video or two. I'm thinking of building trades. I'm thinking of hospitality, preparing a special dish. All of the different career pathways that people are exploring, our students are exploring. Think of duplicating yourself. That's really what we do when we're creating our videos. They're nothing special. You. You know, we make mistakes in them. We keep going. But students, I think, appreciate that we're authentic. And let's say they didn't get it the first time. We know there are students who take a little longer and need a little bit more support. This meets the needs of all of the students. So we would encourage you to try it Zach Diamond 20:20 totally I think, I mean, like, that's a great point. And I think, you know, the the model gives us tools for when students can't do it. If that does turn out to be true, it gives us the tools as the teachers, to help, right? It's not like we're and I was going to ask you about this eve specifically, because this is a very self paced, self directed class, and I want to hear more about that, but like, we're not tossing these students into the deep end and then leaving if they really can't do it, we're there. We're their teacher. Then we have a responsibility to step in and we have a tracker that shows us they're struggling and and I think that that honestly, that data, the data that they're struggling, is hidden from us if we don't use a tracker, if we don't use the model. That was my experience transitioning into the model. I was like, Wow. I always I've told this story before. It's not really a story, but I've told this before that Kareem. I went to visit Kareem classroom the year before I did the modern classrooms training, and he said this model sheds a light on what's really happening in your classroom, and it's so true. You see where kids who need support, where they are, what support they need. And so, yeah, try it, right? Because if it turns out that your kids can't handle it, you're there for them, right? And they probably can. A lot of them probably can, and you need to give them more credit. So yeah. Like, I want to hear more Eve about your experience as a student in in a very self directed class that only meets it sounds like six times a year. That's a lot of self direction. And yeah. Like, how, how did you manage that, right? Like, did you have a period in your day for it, or was this on top of the rest of school? And you know, how did this work? I guess for you, like, logistically, Eve Willoughby 22:08 yeah, um, I will say we did meet once a week over zoom, which did make a difference. So we all kind of connected as a class. And sorry if you can hear my cat meowing. She's very needy down here, but we do meet once a week as a class over zoom. And that opportunity was really great. Because, you know, you get to kind of talk about what you're learning, so you don't feel like you're on your own. Because, I mean, you see everything that gets released for the week, you get to chat with everyone else. We did a lot of breakout rooms where you would talk about, maybe how things were going in your placement. So I felt connected to my peers, even though I was on my own. And I would say the structure of the class really allowed me to, like, fit it into my schedule, because, like I said, I was an early college student, so I had, you know, had three college classes at the time, one more high school class, and if it were in person, I wouldn't have been able to fit this class into my schedule. So it allowed me to be flexible and have this experience, and in terms of fitting all the work in, I think it was sort of different every week for me, which was nice. There was a specific like class period. It was like my second and third hours, but if say, I needed to work on something for a college class during that time, I could, and then I could do the work for this class. You know, later that night or later that week, I felt like I could do the work when I was ready to work, and not because it was due the next morning in my second hour class. You know what I mean. In high school classes, it can be tricky with that. It's like things are due the next day, so you have to do them now, and if it's not good, you don't have much control over it. Erin Luckhardt 23:50 I mean, Zach, I think a big piece is we want our students to feel like they have those skills when they go to college, right? There's such a big gap, I think, from high school to college, where you're being told it's due the next day, the teacher is really directing things. And we feel like whether our students go to college or straight to a job, having some time management skills are important, and self pacing is such a huge piece of that. Are our students 100% successful all the time? No, absolutely not, but it's such a great safe space to build that skill set and start to think about, okay, what tools are helpful for me, what tools are not helpful for me? How can I set myself up for success? I'd love to tell this story I have a parent perspective. My My youngest daughter was in a classroom that was using this model, and she is so articulate about what helps her learn and how to use time wisely that like as a nine year old, I was like, This is impressive. Not every student can share this, this reflective piece about what works for them as a learner. Zach Diamond 24:59 Yeah, no. And. Huge, and we've talked about this on the podcast before, starting that from those young ages, right? Like, it's something that I don't know people my age, did. I did not get that in school, and I really wish that I had, because I struggle with it as an adult. Eve. Did you find that, like, in addition to not, you know, like the self pacing aspect, not having the pressure of it being due right away and all of that, but like, also just knowing what you had to do next. Did you like use the tracker for that? Or did you keep yourself organized in other ways? Eve Willoughby 25:32 I typically, I would use the tracker, and then I also, for all my classes, would plan things out on a planner every week. So usually I would end up pacing my work like that, because that's the way that I like to organize myself. But honestly, I feel like taking this class at the same time as taking, like my first college classes in person, they were like the exact same setup, which was incredible, because I was kind of figuring out how I could organize myself, and it was a really useful skill. And like they said, it's a safe space to do it, because college professors aren't always as lenient. So I felt having that experience was really important for me. I also really liked it's kind of a different piece. It's not really organization, but for all of the assessments and assignments, everything you could do it a second time or a third time if you needed to, which I really liked, because there were times that you know you wouldn't fully understand something, or you thought you understood something, and instead of just getting a poor grade and moving on, you like had the opportunity to figure out what you did wrong and fix it, I think is really good for learning. Zach Diamond 26:41 Yeah, and that's a core piece of the modern classrooms model, the revision the revision piece right? What really matters is right, that we is that we get it right, not that we get it the first time, is that we get it. Yeah. It's funny, because what you said made me think of my college experience, like some of the first classes that I took, the really, really giant, like, survey classes. They actually did just throw you into the deep end and then leave. Maybe there was a TA, but you could ask questions, right? But like, yeah, those, those classes are very self paced and self guided. Not self paced so much, but they're very self guided, and you have to get it in the lecture, and then you're on your own after that, which I guess, for better or for worse, but that can definitely, I can imagine that being a very, a very like a major transition for a high school student who has been basically led through the content their whole school career. Okay, so I want to talk a little bit about these presentations that we've we've sort of been hinting at this. I think the way that I was framing this in my in my mind, as I was writing this outline for the show is sort of like we talked about how CTE can give real world experiences right to students, and this is an actual, real world experience that that Eve that you've had the opportunity to present right sort of on, like an even playing field as your teachers, not that you're competing against them, but does that make sense? Like, Erin Luckhardt 28:08 No, she'll be replacing us some days. Zach Diamond 28:14 Yeah, and this has been my experience with my CTE students as well, like they get opportunities to do things that adults are doing in their careers. They you know, I've had students who have had actually, my colleague has students who have had work that was aired on PBS. I'll link some of it, really incredible stuff. And so that's one of the really cool things about CTE. But I don't know, we've already talked about that a lot like the real worldness of CTE, I guess. Just tell me more about presenting Eve, how you wound up presenting with your teachers, and what it is that you're presenting on because I sort of zeroed in on this, because it's how we got connected. I mentioned that through Dana, but tell me more about what it is that you all are presenting at conferences and and Eve, I guess how you got involved. Eve Willoughby 29:08 Mostly what we're presenting is we're talking about kind of everything we've already discussed here, because our class is sort of a unique setup with the online parts, and like being spread across two counties, we like discuss the setup of the class. We discuss the classroom experience. We talk about the modern classroom project a little bit in that as students, me and the other girl, Carly, who presented, talked about our experience with the class, like what we got out of it, and kind of how we thought that other teachers could implement, maybe modern classrooms or a CTE model. And I would say we kind of got roped into it, just because it was a similar thing to this, where they written Mrs. Luckhardt and Mrs. Deming were interested in presenting, and they wanted a student perspective, so they brought the two of us along. I. Which is an incredible opportunity. It's really cool. Michele Deming 30:03 I think I'll jump in with what we're presenting and why for us, I think the driving force is we are watching students re engage in the learning process using this model. And I know there's a lot of conversation and discussion across the country about why students are just disengaged, and when we hear that, we kind of go, oh, but maybe if you just shift a little bit it, you might see a different result. And I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm just sharing our experiences, and I also I watched it in two different formats, so I use this model when I was still in my traditional classroom, which sounds a little little different to think about, right? It's a blended approach, but your teacher standing right there with you. You're watching my video, but I'm right next to you if you need support, and it works in both settings. And I what I love to see when we're presenting about the model, about what we're seeing are the eyes light up, and literally, the light bulbs go off. So when we talk about students are disengaged and how they're coming back, they go, oh, I need to know more. Or we talk about lifting those restrictions for traditional assessments and we open it up to mastery. And I always share. I say, you know, if a student, I didn't have any students coming to me when I was in a traditional assessment mode, saying, Could I please relearn this, or I need to do more to master this? When I shifted to this model, many students were genuinely interested in learning more, and as a teacher, I just said, I can't, in good faith, say, No, I'm sorry. I don't want you to learn more. You know, it just didn't make sense to me. So those are some of the things. And then the self pacing, of course, when we talk about who's doing the management of the student's time? Is it the teacher, or are the students managing their own times? And I always have to tell this story when I first shifted the very first unit that I released in a blended format using the MCP model, I watched students just dive in, and they were thankful, right? Thank you for not reading the directions every day. I know there are students who need the directions read to them or some support, but not everybody. So I didn't know I was frustrating some students, but I had one student who sat in the corner, and he just blatantly didn't work for three days, and I tried all the teacher tricks that I know. You know, proximity, asking questions, are there any words in the directions that are you know, you're struggling with. And he just finally looked at me, and he said, Mrs. Deming, I would like to just sit here and let you do all the work. And I, I was like, Okay, I think I needed to hear that. I didn't want to hear it, but I needed to hear it. And then ultimately he came around and we talked about why I was setting it up this way to help him build his skill set. I have my skill set, and I could go on and on, but that was a really important point for me as an instructor to hear that, because you said it. Zach, you said, you know, basically through my whole education, I was told what to do, and that's what we I was trained to do. Now I'm, I know, a little bit, little bit different approach, which I appreciate. Erin Luckhardt 33:52 Yeah, I think I would add to like, we're, we're thinking about building future educators. In Michigan, we have a teacher shortage. That's not unique to just Michigan, and I think we pair it, and I feel like modern classrooms has done such a great job of researching and sharing the research on teachers feeling effective, feeling like they know where their students are at and also feeling re energized. I think a big concern for Michele and I, as we work with new teachers is it's exhausting work, and it's especially exhausting if you feel like you're not meeting learners where they're at and supporting all of our students and to some extent, like, that's always going to be there, because we're educators and we care deeply about the success of our students, and if we can start to kind of think differently and shift the way we spend our class time, the way we spend, you know, our prep time, or our time before and after school, to better. Or impact student learning, then that can be a really powerful tool for our students as they become educators, and hopefully then have a really long and successful career in education as well, Zach Diamond 35:13 totally. And that definitely comes down to the connection, I think, between, well, I guess the sort of specialness of your class in particular, right, where your students are going to become teachers, and so, like, the things that are good for teachers really, really matter even more so than in a regular, I say regular, but like a non teacher preparatory class. Yeah, there's lots of data, and MCP had published some of this data showing how efficacy and feeling effective can motivate a teacher to be a better teacher, right? And I'll put that in the show notes, because it's interesting to read. Obviously, very good for modern classrooms, because we do feel that way. And I think CTE also it's like, it's, it's that, but turbo charged, basically, because, like, again, like when, when students are doing things that are real, it's not like, okay, learn this math concept in the abstract, because you have to learn it to move on to the next math unit, which is also going to be in the abstract. And eventually, maybe you'll use this for something, if you become a physicist or a mathematician or something, right? It's real. It's like, you're, I'm going to teach you. You're about to go into a classroom. Here's what you need to know, right? In my case, it's like you're going to create a podcast. That's actually what I teach. I teach audio production. You need to know how to arm a microphone to record. And if you don't listen, what you're going to do is go into the sound booth and then you're just going to come back to be like, Actually, Mr. Diamond, can you help me? So let me just tell you now. And everybody feels like they're doing something for a reason, right? And in my case, you know, if it turns out that you don't like making podcasts, well then you don't take audio production anymore, and if you do, then you continue in that pathway. But that's motivating too, and I think that that's another piece that, like it helps everybody in the room, the teachers and the students, to feel like they're being effective, because they're actually accomplishing a real, tangible thing. Michele Deming 37:14 Some of our favorite moments, I'm just there's so many, but I'm thinking of, you know, when students are getting ready to go into placement, there's some they're stressed about it, like, will the students care for me? Will I be able to connect with them? Are they going to accept me? And then they quickly find out, yes, because, you know, they're k8 students. They're very accepting and welcoming. And then we start getting into the lessons right of working one on one small groups, and usually it's our second meetup all day, we have our students in person, which are our favorite days, where they come back and they go, can you believe they aren't listening to me? And we kind of giggle, and we go, really, really, you don't Yes, and we throw the question back, so how might we go about getting students to listen? And then we talk about engagement, and then we give choices for students to investigate. They implement the different choices or strategies at their own pace. We ask them for feedback, so all of it just naturally fits with the MCP model while they're exploring this, and we're pretty confident they're going to face that year after year in their career. So better to start building that skill set now, but at their own pace. You know, I think about, if it was a traditional approach, would we be able to let the student investigate what works for their particular scenario? Sometimes there isn't time, because we're moving everybody together, but with MCP, it opens it up for students needs to be met, both the ones they're working with and the students while studying this career field. Zach Diamond 39:06 Yeah, no. I mean, I love that. I feel like I going, Okay, so like I remember my first year teaching, going into a classroom is nerve wracking, it is, and I feel like we can put all these code words on it, like CTE and MCP and all this stuff, but like, it's very human to seek out help, right? It's if I care to do a good job. When I'm going to go into the classroom and there's somebody who I know is an expert, of course, I want to talk to them and ask them, like, how should I do this? How should I do that? Why aren't they listening to me? Whatever the case may be, like, it's, it's, it just feels like a more natural way of of framing the learning process, right? Yes, there's somebody who is an expert at this, so let me talk with them. And instead we're, I guess, as CTE teachers, we're doing the reverse, right? I'm an expert, and I'm going to give you the tools. And obviously, I personally, am not a I don't know everything. There's going to be stuff that comes up, and we have to be authentic and be like, oh, let's learn this together, right? I've never had that happen before, but, but I think that that's, that's you helped me to, like, clarify this in my own mind. The value of CTE is that, right? It's like, if you care about doing a good job in this authentic scenario, I can help you, and you're going to come to me because you want the advice. Um, if you don't care, then that means that teaching or podcast production is not for you, and that's also fine, like, like Erin, like you were saying at the very beginning of the podcast, right? But it doesn't mean that I have failed as a teacher. It just means that you discovered what you're interested in, what you're not interested in, right? Eve Willoughby 40:47 And I would say I know people who did, who weren't in future educator who just, like, went into classrooms and like, were teachers aides informally. And I feel like that's the big difference between doing that and taking a CTE class is you don't have the support of two teachers who are really knowledgeable. And all of the work we do every week and all the learning we're doing, I feel like I'm very well prepared because of the classroom experience, but also because of everything I learned with the model. Michele Deming 41:19 We really see ourselves as side by side partners, and regardless of what class we were teaching, I think that's how we see ourselves moving forward in MCP. The model allows us to do that, but it is a partnership in our I think that's how we like to describe it. Zach Diamond 41:40 Yeah, 100% I feel the same way in my class, and I always have since starting MCP. I remember hearing be, you know, be the guide on the side, not the sage on the stage, which is one of those, like, teacher catch phrases. And I would always be like, how like, what do I do? How do I do that when I walk into the classroom, right? Or when I'm grading, like, what do I do? And now I'm like, I understand, and I think, I think it was Michele, it is a little weird at first to be like, you're gonna watch the videos and I'm gonna be here at the same time. It's not like, it's bad, it's just that I feel like that wouldn't occur to me to do. And then when it, when it, when I was told to do it, I was like, oh, oh, yeah. That makes total sense. That makes me the guide on the side, because then they can come to me when they need help, and I can keep track of them. So I know they can't just not do anything, but you know, they can come to me when they need help or not if they don't need help, yeah. Michele Deming 42:38 Well, and some of my most powerful moments would have been they're watching their stations in my traditional classroom. So they know, with the self pacing tracker, sometimes I would reserve dates for myself to say, you know, it's released on Monday Wednesday is going to be a check in day. So between Monday and Wednesday, you need to have this accomplished. Watch the instructional video and get prepared to share what you have learned or questions that you might have. And for the first time, I could run small, mini group interventions and meet students. I could differentiate in the moment on the spot with small groups, and you actually would get three to six minutes with your teacher. And you know, if you do the math, I always, I like to do the math, also saying, Okay, if I were to give every student in my class, let's say we have 25 students, you get about a minute and a half of my time if I were to divide it out, which we know that doesn't happen, right? I can't go to everybody. So you're always working with the masses with the instructional video piece, which happens to be me, you still get me, but you're going to get some quality time with me also. And I can see right where you're at, looking at might be. Let's look at how you're using your pacing tracker. Let's answer any questions that you have. I called it the hot seat. Bring your questions and just fire away, because I'm going to help you, you know, move your learning along. So there's just so many different ways to meet students needs and meet them where they're at. That's what I think I'm most proud of. This model for helping me discover as a teacher. Zach Diamond 44:26 Yeah, yeah. I love the math. We always ask this question about what you hope to see in the future and what goals you have. And I think this particular group of people like you're the three of you are in very like different and unique positions in your careers. So like this question is very interesting to me to hear the three different answers. Eve Willoughby 44:46 What I would hope to see in the future in terms of education for students, I would hope that their teachers start implementing more modern classroom project. I would say it's I haven't implemented it. Obviously. In elementary but I feel like in high school as a student, it is really beneficial regardless of what you end up doing, as Mrs. Lugar was saying, with the soft skills and stuff, even if you don't go to college, the skills you gain from using this kind of framework are really helpful for myself. Goals I have is, I mean, I hope to use this one day in my classroom. I'm planning to teach, like early middle, elementary. So I have to kind of figure out how I would implement that with students who are a little bit less independent, but it that's a big goal for me. And I mean, other than that, I'm working on finishing school, and I hope to move back to the area that I grew up in, the area I took this class in, which is, I guess, sort of the goal of a class to create the teacher pipeline. Zach Diamond 45:49 Yeah, I know that the idea of modern classrooms with very young learners is kind of strange and can be daunting, but it can be done. We've definitely seen it done in in many different and very creative ways at all different levels of elementary and even preschool. So that's a excellent goal, and it can be done. Erin, how about you? Eve Willoughby 46:12 Well, I we I think Michele and I hope Eve will move back and start teaching once she has her degree. That's one thing. That's one thing we hope to see in the future, I think, I hope that more teachers explore the model and maybe find pieces that work for them. I think sometimes it can feel overwhelming to do all of it at once, and so finding, you know, some of those like challenges or pain points in classrooms, and identifying which pieces might be a great place to start is something that I hope to see, and then I hope to you know just more CTE teachers might explore it. I think we've shared there's so much real world experience happening in CTE, and the competencies that we are working toward or helping our students work toward just lend themselves so nicely to this idea of mastery based and this, this idea that you have to be able to demonstrate mastery in order to move forward, or in order to go out to that kind of like job shadowing, internship placement, whatever it is experience. So I think there's a lot of just room and opportunity for growth of this model within a CTE space, especially, and so hopefully just seeing more teachers start to utilize pieces of it or all of it, Zach Diamond 47:31 I love that, and I completely agree. Michele, how about you? Michele Deming 47:36 I think my wish or my goal would be to continue sharing the model, but also to encourage anybody, whether you're new to the profession, midstream or at the tail end, and you're kind of questioning what it is it that you're doing? Am I making an impact? Is this? Is this what I want to do before you talk yourself out of this career pathway, I would encourage you to take a look at the MCP model and to, as Aaron said, just implement maybe just even one piece of it, and see how it might help you. It might help your students look at learning in the classroom experience a little differently, and you might be pleasantly surprised Zach Diamond 48:22 totally. And speaking of sharing the model, which is something that I know the three of you do actively. How could our listeners connect with you if they wanted to hear more about CTE MCP, MCP and ZTE, all of it. How could our listeners connect with you. Erin Luckhardt 48:41 Michele, would like them to write her letters. Michele Deming 48:45 Anna, I do. Zach, I do want to say this also. There might be some teachers listening who go, Oh, I am not techie. I don't know if I can do this. You're looking at somebody. If I can do it, you can do right? They can email me at Coffee Corner consulting@gmail.com or I am an expert mentor for MCP. I think we're listed in a directory, so that would be another avenue as well. Zach Diamond 49:14 Okay, I'll link that as well. Erin Luckhardt 49:16 Yeah, same for me. They're welcome to email my work email, which is probably just easier for you to put in the show notes, because it's a little confusing. But I'm also an expert mentor for modern classrooms as well. So my modern classroom email is great, too. Eve Willoughby 49:31 Awesome. Eve, yeah, email would be great if anyone would like to get in contact with me, which I provided in the form I filled out. Zach Diamond 49:40 Fantastic. Yeah, I'll put all of that in the show notes, and I will link the mentor directory, which is cool. So that's fantastic. I I want to thank all three of you for coming on that we had some scheduling issues. It's the summertime, so this was great. I love CTE. I don't know, I was really excited that we were able to get connected and get to talk about these. This alphabet soup of MCP and CTE are my two favorite things in education right now, and PBL, let's just add four letters. But those, those, you know, I just, I could talk about CTE all day, but we don't have all day. It's time to go. Listeners, remember, you can always email us at podcast@modernclassrooms.org and you can find the show notes for this episode@podcast.modernclassrooms.org We'll have this episodes recap and transcript uploaded to the modern classrooms blog on Friday, so be sure to check there or check back in the show notes for this episode if you'd like to access those. Also, we're asking our listeners to leave a review if this podcast has been helpful in supporting you to create a blended, self paced, mastery based learning environment, because that does help other folks find the podcast. Thank you all for listening. Have a great week, and we'll be back next Sunday. Michelle Aaron Eve, thank you all so much for joining me. Unknown Speaker 51:04 Thanks for having us. Thank you. Thank you. Zach Diamond 51:12 Thank you so much for listening. You can find links to topics and tools we discussed in our show notes for this episode, and remember you can learn more about our work at www.modernclassrooms.org and you can learn the essentials of our model through our free course at learn.modernclassrooms.org you can follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram at modernclassproj, that's P, R, O, J, we are so appreciative of all you do for students in schools. Have a great week, and we'll be back next Sunday with another episode of the modern classrooms project podcast. Transcribed by https://otter.ai