Hi, and welcome to beer with geeks for two geeks geek out with beer.
I'm Tim, and with me as always is my man who loves being a lord from the shadows.
It's Frank. How are you today?
At last, we will have revenge.
That's a pretty good Peter Sederfinowicz.
Thank you.
Yeah. That was pretty good.
I've been working on it for twenty five years.
Absolutely.
He has he has two lines in the whole movie, and you're like,
I'm that he he will forever be somebody I talk like. Yes.
Yeah. Of course. Absolutely.
Frank, how are you today?
I'm doing pretty well. My friend is good to see you.
How are you?
I'm also doing pretty well. It's good to see you too.
We are here today to be friends, of Star Wars friends,
which is always a good day, Frank,
when we're Star Wars friends.
And Star Wars friends drink tell each other what they're
drinking Oh, yeah.
Before we're Star Wars friends. So what are you drinking today?
I'm drinking calf.
Oh, calf. Calf is good. Are you drinking stout calf?
A calf stout. No.
I am drinking, today, I'm having a corona.
I'm I'm having the King of beers.
Yeah.
Sure. Yes. Yeah.
The well, you know, it is in a
La Cerveza Masfina. So the finest beer.
So Corona means crown.
So, you know Yeah.
That's true. This is true.
You're right.
Yeah.
Yes. It is, in that sense, the king of yours.
But, yeah, nothing nothing especially exciting tonight for me.
But you know what?
I like I like a service every now and then.
And and it is Cinco de Mayo,
and that's my real reason as we record this.
That I just just snatched victory from the jaws of
defeat, and that's the reason.
That is a really excellent reason. Good for you.
Did you put the lime, or did you have a lime or no?
I don't have a lime. I don't. I'm limeless.
That's okay.
I'm not in the limelight.
Well well, that's okay. What are you gonna do?
Frank, I know this day, like you said, is Cinco de Mayo,
so I'm drinking a Czech Amber lager.
Yeah. That was all I had going for me today.
This is from Button Woods Brewery.
This is their Czech amber lager with a Nokia.
Check this out.
On
the on the sides, Buttonwood Brewery is in
Providence, Rhode Island.
Nice.
They're pretty they're only about ten years old,
the brewery itself.
Haven't been Oh, nice. Time.
It's good. It's nice and refreshing.
It's pretty light for
for the check for a pretty light for the check, Amber.
It's not too hoppy, but just just the kind of the right
amount for a fifty five degree night.
You know what I mean?
Love it. Yeah.
A a a good a good spring evening beer.
Exactly. Yep. Exactly.
Yep.
Because it The kind of thing public.
It's always spring.
Is it though?
I mean, in in the New Republic, yes. But in the empire?
I don't think so.
I was watching the latest season of shrinking with my
wife last night.
Yes. So good.
I love shrinking.
And I was laughing, drinking this Czech one because they one
of the characters was trying to prove that he is not old.
You know, a classic storyline if there ever was one.
And someone was like, you still call it Czechoslovakia. Yes.
I was like, why? What happened?
Why? What happened? It was so good. Was it Derek?
No. It's not Derek. It's a lawyer friend there.
What's his name?
Yeah.
Yeah. I don't remember his name. But yeah. No.
I don't know.
Yeah. I can't remember his name.
Brian.
Brian. That's it. Yeah. Yeah.
So but, yeah, it was Brian, and it's just it's a great show.
If if people haven't if you have not watched shrinking,
do yourself a favor and watch shrinking,
especially if you were, say, Ted Lasso fan.
Yes.
That's basically the same creators as Ted Lasso.
It is.
And so it is well worth your time and attention.
Yeah. Yeah.
And I just I just recently learned,
that evidently they had planned a three season arc
for this show, and they were gonna be like, yeah, we're done.
But but Apple was like, please, please.
And so they're like, okay. Fine.
We're gonna we'll continue it.
But, like, we we told that that is the the the arc that they wanted to tell.
We they just wrapped it up.
And and knowing that they were already greenlit for more
seasons, they're like, well,
we will transition into telling some other stories.
I think that's why some of the characters have been leave you know,
leaving or going elsewhere is so they can focus on some
different characters.
Maybe some of the same characters,
but but some new ones as well.
I I actually I I knew it was a three season.
Like, this is the story they wanted to tell. We told it.
I did not know they were coming back for more.
They are. They're apparently coming back for more. Yeah.
They're they're basically the way Ted Lasso ended and and is
now coming back anyway.
Sure.
They just sort of short circuited that,
and they were like,
let's just why don't you do the same thing you're doing with
Ted Lasso, which is, like,
tell a slightly different story that, like,
that overlaps with the one you already told in in some ways?
That's good.
Why don't you go ahead and do that without the, like,
five year gap in between?
Yeah. And they were like, sure.
We'll just do been that long?
Really?
Something like that.
Yeah. Wow.
I think so. Close.
Man, I love that show. Gonna watch that one again. Yeah.
I'm I'm happy it's coming back. I, yeah, I will.
Me too. Me too.
I I I was skeptical about it at first,
I'm feeling better about it these days.
So, anyway, tangent into Ted Lasso and shrinking,
but but yeah.
So good.
But they're so good.
Highly recommend. Also really good is Maul Shadow Lord.
Frank, it's so good. It's so good, dude.
I can't even we have not been talking about it because you
were not watching, like, week to week.
No. I wasn't for for a while.
And then I I caught up last week and just in time to watch
the finale on May the fourth.
So Yeah. It's just it's so good.
I just I I have not felt this way about
Star Wars being so good in a very long time.
Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, there's been very good Star Wars.
Don't get me wrong. Like, Andor is excellent.
Yes.
The Mandalorian is excellent.
You know, like, those are those are all good.
But this is is Star Wars.
Damn it.
Like, it's all the Star Wars,
but but it's still fresh and and new,
but but but familiar.
And it's not Star Wars doing Star Wars,
see The Mandalorian Oh.
For in certain seasons.
Not all seasons.
I started to go I went back, you know, to to start, you know, like,
it doesn't always it's not always Star Wars doing Star Wars, but
But especially early on.
But but here, the Maul Shadow Lord is
in the Star Wars universe being fresh.
And it's just and familiar at the same time.
It's inviting new new viewers and giving
something to old viewers at the same time.
I'm gonna say more nice things about it, but let's talk.
Can we, like, just do spoilers? Let's. Yeah.
Now that we just that our recommendation is strong. Wait.
Before we do spoilers, Frank, I forgot our segment.
Oh my gosh. Yes. Lois and Clark. Gotta do it.
Lois and Clark, we gotta do it.
Lois and Clark, the novel the Superman novel by CJ Cherry.
And
What does CJ have in store for us today?
Okay.
Oh, yes. That's right.
Clark asked if he was going to dinner with Lois.
He was wise enough not to ask, and here we go.
But maybe not wise enough to look thoroughly delighted.
Clark, you know, have to know how lucky you are.
This place is absolutely book solid,
just absolutely impossible to get a reservation.
We'll need to leave my apartment at six.
At six, the latest, don't tell me you have another engagement.
Great, Clark said and told himself he meant it.
Dinner and theater in London or trattoria in Rome had always
been in reach for him personally.
The world's best theaters, the most exclusive restaurants,
he could always go globe popping.
But he only rarely indulged this kind of whim.
For one thing, because a reporter's salary didn't extend to meals at
Alfredo's, and for another,
because he'd grown up with the harvest hand breakfast and
suppers back home.
In American country, cooking was what he truly favored.
There was a roadside cafe on an old Route sixty six that served
up chili cheeseburgers to die for.
But Metropolis' latest and trendiest restaurants were
Lois' personal passion before they dated.
And by what she said and what he'd heard of the place,
reservations were hard to come by.
It was a quest, an acquisition,
a moment of glamour she aspired to.
And as surely as he loved the ground she stood on,
they were going to go tonight to a tiny, exclusive,
and expensive place called the twelve tables,
aptly named since there was the number that was the number of
tables, which was the rave of Metropolis.
He suspected the chairs were going to be frail,
the premises crowded, the flowers edible,
and the portions more like a sample than a satisfaction.
But she was going to be happy,
and a man in love rated that goal above all other considerations.
She was the kind of woman who can enjoy that Route sixty six
cheeseburger too.
She loved him. She knew everything about him.
Everything. And she loved him anyway.
And there wasn't a thing wrong with the world.
The twelve tables it was. He memorized the appointment.
His apart her apartment at six. Early dinner.
Now, Frank, I don't know who considers six o'clock an early
supper, but I'm getting ready for bed.
Well,
I just say, yeah, CJ.
CJ has such a vivid prose style.
Very descriptive.
Does. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.
I'm feeling I suspect she.
She. Yeah. I suspect she.
What was the name of CJ what?
CJ Cherry, but Cherry is spelled with like Cherry with
an h at the end.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
I'm using my one lookup for this because For CJ Cherry and
not for CJ Cherry.
Not from all. That's right.
Excellent. Excellent. Yep.
Yep. That's what your lookup is for.
Perfect. Perfect.
CJ Cherry. Yes. Carolyn Janice Cherry.
Knew it. Knew it.
So there you go. All good. Anyway. Age age eighty three.
Wow. Really? Wow. She writes so well for her age. No.
Said, though, let's book She's writing it thirty years ago.
Yep. Yep. I know. I know it.
I know it. Let me see.
This would have been come on.
Publication page. Publication page.
Publication page. Don't let me down.
Nineteen ninety six.
Oh, I was gonna guess ninety seven.
Thirty years ago. Exactly.
Thirty years ago. Exactly.
Yeah.
Cool.
Anyway, Frank, speaking of things that happened almost thirty ago hate
that you can remember things from thirty years ago?
Do you hate that? Because I hate that.
Yes. I hate that.
Cool. Anyway, Mal.
Speaking of things that happened almost thirty years
Darth Maul was introduced to the world twenty seven years ago.
Right. Yes.
And and we've had this love relationship with him ever since.
What's wild taking a character that
has almost no speaking lines, you know, at last,
we will have revenge, you know, and yes, my master.
Okay. Great. And here we are, you know.
And then and then here he is front lining his own show
after being on several other shows, you know,
previous to this.
Where he played significant roles on those shows too.
Right?
Like, had significant arcs on Clone Wars and
Rebel.
Yep.
What I what I find rather incredible about
about Maul is that his character
We know he's doomed to fail. Right?
You know, because we know his story ends with a a
very, for him, lackluster fight with with Obi Wan
Kenobi in the deserts of Tatooine.
You know, everything builds to this moment,
and then here you go.
And you lost one more time.
That boulder he's like the Wily Coyote of Star Wars characters.
He just can't quite get there.
Yeah.
And so but he's still quite a compelling watch,
which is what what which I find incredibly wild.
Even the two inquisitors that are after him,
Crow and Martok.
Yeah. It's I think Merrick.
Merrick. Okay.
But either way,
we also know they're doomed to fail too.
In some in some respects,
Merrick is
Merrick is on Ahsoka.
That's when we first introduced that character. Still around.
I can't remember what happened.
And then but Crow was defeated by Ahsoka during
Tales of the Jedi. Right?
Right. Right.
Exactly. That was like a one and done introduction. Yes.
But I think what I what I found fascinating about taking those
two characters who seemingly do continue to fail or we know
they their vague end points is that they're great foils for
Maul.
Like, because Maul would like he's so cool and
he's so distant to that, but, let's not forget that he, like,
lost to a padawan.
Right?
True.
I mean, was Obi Wan.
Granted, it's like the king of all padawans.
But still.
But still, he he he lost to he lost to still a
learner as he was a learner himself.
And then his hubris has just never really
faded, I guess, and ebbed, and that's like but,
like, the show is like it, like,
takes him down a couple of pegs where we think that he can do
anything except that he always fails.
And so so,
like and then you get so then when you finally get him up
against a couple of inquisitors,
you he's obviously great because he can take both of
them at the same time and survive,
but not well enough to, like, flat out win.
Yeah. In the end, he's kind of small potatoes.
And, like, he's not Vader, like, as in like we said,
like like, Vader's almost bored fighting him.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Didn't doesn't speak a single word, Vader, the entire time.
Nope. He's on screen. He's Totally totally beneath him.
Yeah. It's beneath him.
He's like, I shouldn't even have to be here.
I was supposed to be on Hoff today taking my vacation.
But I wasn't supposed to be here today.
It's Thank you. Yeah. Yes.
Yeah.
So I I I just think that's that's great.
But, like, to to basically make a show about a loser
and but he's still somehow so cool
and watchable
and still has some kind of deep impact
on the Star Wars universe, I'm here for it.
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
You know, something I really enjoyed about this show and really paid
about this show was it actually really flips
the antihero thing on its head.
Like, it doesn't do the typical the the typical antihero
tale where or the typical antihero POV
where like you want they want you to root for
him because you want to be that badass or whatever.
Right?
But the thing about Maul is you're
not rooting for him because you wanna be like him.
I was like, I hope not.
But, like, he is a he is a bad guy,
but he's a bad guy whose motives you understand.
He's quite poorly. No. Yeah. Very much. Very much. Yeah.
And then there are the worst guys.
Right?
That's how Sam Whitworth has been has been describing it.
It's a show about bad guys and worst guys
instead of bad guys and good guys.
And I think that's a really good like,
there's no pretense that Maul is a good guy or, you know,
the protagonist in any way.
But you're still kind of rooting for him in in in a way.
I mean, if if only because he's the title character.
So it's a very, very,
I like that that perspective and that that that change.
Like, I'm I very much am the kind of guy who, like,
likes to see good guys be good,
but sometimes it is kind of nice to see, like,
guys good guys being good, but also, like,
bad guys being bad and not needing to pretend like
that he's more sympathetic than he really is.
I agree.
This it's a show about it's it's a show about
Maul is a character who makes a a Faustian deal. Right?
He makes the deal with the devil,
and it backfires because he made the deal with the devil.
Right. Darth Sidious.
So then what he his whole thing is
saying that, like, you gotta break out of the shackles of that,
but then he just redoes the same thing over again to other
people over and over and over again.
He just makes his own Faustian bargains.
Like, it's like, you know,
the what happened to me is terrible,
so I'm gonna do that to you as well.
But I'm not gonna see it as something terrible.
Yeah. Like, that's I've been thinking about that too.
Like,
him trying to to get Devin as his as his
apprentice is exactly what he's trying to
get revenge on Sidious for.
Well, so, like, he says to Devin very early in episode two
or three where he's like, you have been basically, like,
brainwashed by the Jedi.
You only growing you only you you grew up only knowing what they taught you,
and you have to break out of the shackles of that thing.
But, like, Mal, you don't Really, Mal.
Really. Yeah. You don't stay.
More tell us more about how you only have been taught one
worldview and how you've been stuck in that worldview and how
you just continue to be stuck in that view
without breaking out by telling other people to bring out.
He's the world's biggest hypocrite.
And he doesn't see it,
which means which is why he continually fails because he's
not introspective enough to under he thinks he is.
He pretends he is the way he is.
And so but he's so He thinks he's so evolved and
so sophisticated.
Yep.
Because, like, the even though the way he and holds himself,
you know, and but he's not.
He's just he's sadly an abused
kid Yes.
Who grew up into an adult who is now
going to abuse somebody else.
Yeah.
Yes. That's exactly it's a hurt people.
The trauma, like, cycle continuing and,
like, hurt people, hurt people type of thing.
Right.
Yeah.
So, like, in that regard, it's a very it's a very serious,
very serious themes that the show touches on and deals with.
But but it's still I think that's one of the great things
that Star Wars can do.
Like, that it can it can it can go there,
and at the same time be a an adventure show.
Right. Yep.
It's there just enough for you to understand character
motivations, but it's not gonna preach at you.
It's not it's not it's not about what you what we're
talking about necessarily.
Star Wars is, for better or for worse,
a plot driven, you know, story.
Right? Plot matters first.
It or it should. You know?
And then for and then for and then character and then theme
and then symbol and so on and so on and so on.
But Yeah.
But it gives you just enough to to
it gives you just enough to think how complex these
characters being fun on an adventure can be.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's right.
Yeah.
It it gives you just enough of the character and almost leaves
enough for you to, like,
fill in the blanks with your imagination.
And that's maybe one of the great things about, you know,
the the the period after the original trilogy before the
prequels that there was so much that
people just had filled in with their imagination.
And even between the prequels and the sequel trilogy, like,
that that that whole time and and before the clone wars show,
began, like, didn't really know what there were big
gaps in between, like, the the films.
There were there were
things like what happened to Maul.
You know, you think he just went down the shaft and that's it.
He was gone.
But it turns out there was all this rich other story to to be told.
I I definitely lost my train of thought there,
but I stand by everything I said.
It's okay. I I'm I'm with you.
I kinda knew what you're putting down even though the
train left the station.
Yeah. I don't know. Not have a ticket.
But either way Well smart go over there.
There it is.
Let's talk about Devin Yes.
For a second.
Because Devin and
Ducky. Ducky. Thank you. Ducky the dinosaur.
I knew he was Ducky the dinosaur.
He was, like, modeled after a dinosaur, apparently.
That was, like yeah.
That's I mean, it shows. Yeah.
Part of the part of the part of the charm.
But I I think I think the the show is
was very smart because it looks early on in that you're
like, oh, well, obviously,
she's just gonna be his apprentice because she's dissatisfied.
Sure. You know?
But it takes a whole season for you to learn that it's not
because she's dissatisfied.
Yeah.
That's only a part of it. She has to be angry. Right?
She has to be afraid.
You know? Right?
And that's, like, because fear is the path to the dark side.
Fear leads to anger.
Anger leads to So, like,
she starts in a world in which she's afraid because of order sixty six,
and she gets to the point at the end of the season where she
is angry.
Right? And then and even to the point of hatred.
Right?
And so but you also know that's going to end
in tragedy because She's he's like,
I'm gonna I'll teach you to train.
I'm gonna go after Darth, like, Darth Sidious did this.
But in but to her, he's an unknown quantity.
Vader's the person that she wants to go after.
Like, you can feel it.
And that's not gonna go well either.
Right.
So I think I I I think that I
think that the this the the show sets up doom sidekicks very well.
It does, doesn't it?
Characters just enough to be like,
they are here to propel you forward.
Like, Mal's whole camaraderie of characters gets it
because they need to propel him to a place of desperation.
Right?
And so, like, you have to get to the place where,
and you're alone again.
Or before because you that boulder's gonna come rolling
back down the hill at you every time.
Yep.
Yeah. Yeah.
What
about Captain Lawson in his Oh, Captain Lawson.
And two boots.
And two boots.
I didn't recognize him without the boots or the red arm.
Such a funny Thank you.
Know, and I was I was really wondering,
is this is is the two boots thing,
is that a nickname, or is that his real name?
And then it turned out his name was t b zero t. I'm sorry.
Two b zero t. Yep. I'm like, oh, that's clever. Okay.
So we go from, like, two bot to two boots.
Alright. I see it. I see it.
And then they gave him boots and cute.
It's cute.
Anyway, Lawson Lawson, I think, is a,
I really liked him as a
he he was a look.
I mean, his name is literally law.
Son of the law.
Son of the law. Yeah. Right?
It's very clear, like, who he is.
Yep.
They're they're right there with it as as on the nose as
Nicodemus.
Just just boom. Right there.
Yep.
So they they they tell you they telegraph right right there who
he is, but he lives up to it.
And he is, you know, a good guy being good.
Good guy trying to do the right thing.
He's he's wants to he's a good cop. He's a good detective.
He wants to do the right thing by his son.
I'm not convinced he's gone.
He's so not gone?
Yeah. I don't think he's gone.
Listen. Look.
In a show, if I may,
this was the my only qualm with the show.
A show where Nico Dimas,
who we could also card Narco Dimas if you wanted to be a
little bit more on the nose.
Nice. Right?
You can see the blaster bolts through him. Right?
But then and Stormtroopers get taken out with one blaster
here, one blaster there, whatever.
He gets shot twice and just keeps walking.
That happened to some other another character too.
I can't remember who and I was like,
that's very inconsistent.
Was it one of the others Zabrax?
I think so.
Yeah.
Yes. It was. Yeah. Right? Until yes. Until the until the end.
Yeah. When he, like, when he, like, dove off the side.
Yes. Exactly. Yes. I I clocked that too.
Yeah. And I was like, wow.
That's like,
what is that?
Like You know what I noticed about both of those?
They got shot in the shoulder in in both those cases.
So it was like Okay.
More of, like, flesh wound.
Sure.
Whereas, I guess, the the stormtroopers are getting
more, like, direct hits to the the heart or something.
I'll take it. Yeah.
I mean, we know their their armor means absolutely nothing.
It's Absolutely. It is for show and nothing and nothing more.
It's three d printed. That's that's it.
Yes. Yeah.
With your fix your thick wool sweater has a better chance of
popping a black hole than Stormtrooper armor.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I Put put put that money into a nice Fair Isle sweater.
It'll it'll Yeah.
You'll be fine.
Yeah. Well, it'll start good.
Really nice ones. You can, like, throw that on.
Yeah.
That was the only thing that I but I guess if it was shoulder,
I will I will accept that it just felt inconsistent.
But listen, if if a character gets shot,
but you don't see him fall and he runs into the mist, well,
that's I'm gonna live to see another day if I've ever seen it before.
I wanna remind you that this show is named after someone who
we watched get chopped in half.
Correct. Well done. Well said. Now but here's with that.
I think so his son, whose name I cannot remember.
Yeah. I don't remember.
Done. Starts with an e, maybe.
I don't know.
I'll use my I'll use my It's like a very normal name too.
Yes. It's not even like a it's not even like a Star Wars name.
It's like Ethan or something.
Yeah, it's like.
I can't even think of a I can't even think of a normal name right now.
Yeah.
It's like Blake. Is it Blake?
Brander. No. No. No. That's why.
No.
Brander is is Brander is the captain Lawson.
Please. Brander was my father.
Rock Cabrese, born officer Wade, Rook,
Horace, Lutie, Two Boots, Devin Mall.
Why can't I find you? It might be Blake.
Rander. Rook, Ryle Riley. It's Riley.
Riley. That's it. That's it.
It is Riley, and it is a very,
very normal name.
It's a little too earthy for me, honestly.
Like, as much as we have Luke and stuff, and, like,
real name Leia and Han, the very earth names.
I mean,
Han, not so much.
Yeah. But Sure.
But Luke and Luke and Leia.
Sure. Especially Luke, I think. But, like, so sure. Yes.
We we do have those. But Riley just feels like you know what?
It feels very American specifically. Oh, sure.
Think that's what takes me out of it is that doesn't feel like
Luke goes back to antiquity. Right?
Like Sure.
But his last name is Lawson.
That doesn't feel I mean, that's also very on the nose.
Yeah.
Yeah. So I wanna roll with it. Yeah.
Fair enough.
Mechanics is a new world.
We don't know what their culture is.
It's true.
It's true. Blade runner. It's the Blade runner world.
It is. Very much. It's it's Coruscanto.
Make it Blade Runner.
Yep. Absolutely. Yeah.
But so anyway but so, like,
Riley is now Riley is a good kid.
He's obviously got feelings for Devin. Right?
And so but she's gonna be in a place of hate.
He's now with he's now with
Maul in kind of this weird precarious situation
Thinking his dad is dead.
So we're gonna want like,
I feel like we're gonna watch his descent as well.
Only for Lawson to return.
And does, like, does Riley recover from that?
Because if you notice Riley I really appreciated this that he
wasn't using blaster bolts.
He was using the stun set.
Yes. I noticed that. Yes.
Yeah. I love that. Like, he's a good kid.
He's like, I'm just not immediately gonna kill a bunch of stormtroopers.
I'm just Right.
On them and and everything will be okay,
which begs the question, why don't we do that more?
Like, like Truly.
Yeah. You can do that. I think it's not it is immediate.
I think you have to, like, let it charge or whatever. Right?
Because you want Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
I think you're right.
Keep they never they're not ever always flying, but
I don't know.
I just, like, watch that,
like so we're gonna watch the descent of Devin and Riley,
you know, but, interesting.
Riley's gonna have somebody that could pull him back,
but not Devin.
But Devin won't.
Which will put them at odds too.
I because I was gonna say,
I wonder if it's more maybe it's both.
I wonder if it's more of a,
they go their separate ways.
Like, she turns to the dark side, and he tries to cling to.
Hope or, you know,
the light side to some to even not being a force user,
you know what I mean?
Right.
Like he tries to cling to to hope and she
just goes with despair and and anger and hate.
It go that way.
It could be the kind of thing where, yeah,
like he has someone to pull him back.
So he's like, it's okay.
And she's like, already too far gone.
Right.
Which already make maybe would make her even more resentful.
Right.
Some way because she doesn't have that. Right.
Because her whole world has collapsed around her.
You can't blame her in some ways.
Well, I it would be I don't know. I'm not sure.
But I think I had a thought earlier about it today,
and I I you know what I mean?
I didn't write it down,
so therefore, I I lost But I'm sure it was profound.
I'm I you know, wow. I feel moved just thinking about that.
I I thought I thought you would.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Wow.
What about the, like, the the almost like
tactile painting,
the, like, paint style of the back?
Because there was actually, like, they were,
like pretty sure they were actually
painting the backdrops.
And then They may have been actual, like, matte paintings.
I haven't because I haven't I did see this something where,
like, the, like, Star Wars is kinda built on the tactile.
Like, you wanted it to go real.
And so but also created at the same time.
Like, you know, it's not real, but it is at the same time.
I got that from this in a big way.
Sure.
Very beautiful. Great lighting.
I they very good lighting.
The CG, you know, think about when you first saw Clone Wars, right,
which is the introduction of that
general animation style To Star Wars.
Right?
We're still sort of in a Clone Wars influenced animation style.
It's it's evolved, but it's still sort of in the same family.
Right? That's the first time we saw it back in, like, o seven.
And
think about how it how, you know,
they talk about like the the hair looked like helmets of
hair and everything.
And and now it looks almost photorealistic sometimes.
Yep.
It's it's amazing how far they have they have come in almost
twenty years of of, like, iterating on that style.
It's it's phenomenal.
And and I love that they still work in, like,
there was some practical stuff in there.
Like, when
we saw Maul's flashback to
to the stuff with With
Sidious and his With Sidious and with Savagio Press and a
lot of that stuff.
They actually projected it onto a smokescreen and filmed
that Oh.
To give it a smoky effect.
Like, they so, like,
they were they're that's an actual practical, like,
effect in an animated piece.
Like, that's I just yeah. I I love that they did that.
I said it's same where where watched an interview with him,
and he was talking about early on how Dave Filoni came in
and was like, alright.
We have to be better.
Like and that was kind of like his and everyone was like,
well, we're already
good.
Yeah. Like, it's already, like, we're already good.
He's like, we are.
We're already good, and we're gonna be better.
Like, in that then I was like, and it worked.
Like, you know,
because it it really went back to the that they were not
resting on their laurels.
Like, there was a really innovative way of of doing things here.
But even in the story, in the animation, like,
sound effects, whatever.
Right across the board, they were just they went for it
and told a really good story that is not over yet.
Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.
The the score too was very Star Wars.
Very scary. It was I think it was episode nine, I think.
There was a bit where the trumpets or the brass was going.
Yes.
Oh, that's exactly what I'm thinking of when I say that too.
That is exactly yes.
Yeah. Made me so happy. Just yeah.
And not that, like,
other scores from other Star Wars pieces haven't been good
or anything like that, but Sure.
This just particularly felt like it had Star Wars
Yeah. DNA in it.
Very much.
Very John Williams was was, you know, in the room, spiritually.
Yeah. For sure.
For sure.
It's so
really, that that that kind of applies to the
whole the whole show.
Like, it it feels like Star Wars.
It feels like everything is like, oh,
that's a that's a familiar thing.
You know?
The the trumpet's making that, like, fanfare sound or, oh,
the the the, the the light the the the fight
choreography, the lightsaber battles, like Incredible.
Incredible lightsaber core.
It felt you know, like,
when we watched season seven of The Clone Wars,
which was also one of those things where you went, wow,
Star Wars is back, baby.
Yeah. Yeah.
And and you just watched them fight and you were like, this is it.
This is what this is what I, like, have always wanted,
you know, and and here we are.
Or this is kind of like how I felt as a kid watching The
Phantom Menace, you know, or Revenge of the
Sith or whatever.
I'm not gonna count on Attack of the Clones because
truthfully, that fight choreography is not great.
It just doesn't it's not equal to the the first and third part
of the the prequel.
Yeah.
But it was just incredible to watch some like,
it go even further in animation.
Just the amount of mapping and and
storyboarding that it took to flow from this to that to that
to that that without you getting lost as to
what was happening.
It's just really really an impressive amount of of thought
and animation went into this.
Yeah. Yeah.
I I can't say better things about it.
Like, there's so much Star Wars content out there.
Like, is it the like to like to be like, oh,
this isn't my top three Star Wars of all time now.
I just can't do it. There's just two. I can't do it, mom.
There's just too much Star Wars out there.
Yeah.
Good stuff.
It's just it's impossible.
And so but as far as even Star Wars animation,
there's so much good stuff out there.
Now I just but I would just say that it just makes me really
happy to watch something that clearly people loved making that Yes.
They were able to prove that Star Wars still
has a lot of legs and not just gross metal spider you
know, but like real, like Yeah.
You know, legs to to run on still.
It's just it's just really nice.
It it's, you know, it's it's obviously very
there is a whole creative team
behind this.
And and and it obviously was far beyond Dave Filoni,
but it is very much in the Filoni sort of tradition and style.
And and I I imagine sort of like the
production sort of system that he has
established in in some of his prior shows has carried into this one.
And it just bodes well for the sort of felony era of
Lucasfilm.
I agree.
With him at the helm. Right? It is a good, like, okay.
Here's the first you know, obviously,
this has been you've been working on this for a couple of
years, but or the team has.
But here's the, you know,
something that we know is very much near and dear to his heart
that is one of the first things released under his
I guess, has he officially taken the role yet?
I guess not.
Yes.
I think it was when they announced it,
he was kind of already in it.
Okay.
And so, I mean, like, obviously,
it takes a couple of years for these things to get made.
Yeah. Yeah. Of course.
So it's been in the pipeline for quite some time.
It is.
But I think he had, like,
creative control in the pipeline here.
Yeah.
Like, we're just here we are.
We're going in. We're doing it.
And what I did is it was that
interview with Sam Whitworth that I I I watched where he
talked about how, you know, Dave wasn't really showrunning.
Like, he was doing Yeah.
A bunch of other things and whatever else.
So but he would come in and be like, everyone, this is great.
Make it bigger. Make it better.
This is what we're gonna do. Try this. Do this.
And he just kept pushing
Different ways to You know what?
He's the George now.
That's what George Lucas was doing in Clone Wars.
Like, he would come to those meetings and be like,
make this bigger, make this faster, more intense, whatever.
And
and and then Dave and the team would go off and do it.
And, like, now the learner has become the master, I guess.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, which is awesome for him.
I mean, we we knew that he would get there.
Yeah.
He's been there for so long, but,
like, I have gone on the record saying that I like Clone Wars.
I don't love it. You know?
Same symbols.
I don't love it. This, I love.
I love this.
And truthfully, Maul has never been like my guy. You know?
I've never No.
Me neither.
I I I mean, like, in in Phantom Menace, like, I I was like, of course.
I was a ten year old boy. Was all about it.
But, like,
but but, yeah, like, beyond that, like, yeah, no.
It hasn't been, like,
some people, like, sort of idolize him to the level of,
like, Boba Fett kind of, you know,
that that level of which also I was not.
Was sort of like him. I mean, like, he's cool.
Sure.
He looks cool. Yeah.
But, yeah, like the lore that sort of built up around something like that.
I was not that kid either for for for a mall. Right.
But Didn't have a mall lunchbox.
You know what I mean?
No. Know exactly.
I like and I think but this show
gave me what it gave me what I think everybody else has been
saying where I kinda go, I see now.
I see why this character is so attractive to you.
And maybe it's it's attractive to you for completely different
reasons than me, but at least we can agree that he is a
character worth putting on a pedestal of like, leveling off.
No different than, like, how we would put invader or or or Luke
or or Obi Wan or Padme or whatever.
Like, you know, you hear these you hear these dimensional characters.
Let's throw them up here and Examining that character under,
you know Yep.
A magnifying glass.
Just being a cool looking character that dies early on.
Exactly.
No. Worth it.
I I mean, obviously, Dave saw that very early,
and he loves Maul, clearly.
And, and, we're all better for it, apparently.
Agreed. Yeah.
And and, like, you know,
Dave has been so has been responsible for
filling in so much of Maul's, like, timeline.
Right?
Like, he's he's gone to different eras of his timeline and filled
them all in sort of like it's like his personal mission to
tell that story and wherever he needs to do it and whatever
show he needs to do it.
And so he was like, finally,
give him his own show and finish it there.
Yep. Did you know actually, this is fun.
Did you know that Sam Whitworth did he not he played Maul,
but he also did Savage and Darth Sidious in the last pack?
I just think that's awesome.
It's so cool. Right? Yeah. Yeah.
Because he did Sidious in the
for some force unleashed.
Was that the game?
Yes.
He was he was the voice of the main, the main character. Yes.
He was. Yeah. He did the And he OKAP and all that.
Yep. Exactly. Exactly.
But he also did he did Sidious for that too.
Something Starkiller.
Yeah. Stark. I think it was just Starkiller, wasn't it?
Or was it just Starkiller?
I think it might have been just Starkiller for that one.
Yeah.
Yeah. Oh, man. Good times.
But you're thinking of Deke Starkiller,
which was the name from the original That's it.
Script. Yeah. Original Luke Skywalker. Man, what a time.
Glad that was not how that turned out.
Yeah. Really.
Yeah.
Well, one thing I just wanna I wanna leave with with Vader's
appearance in episode nine,
then pretty and everything in episode ten with him not saying anything.
Would you have liked him to say something?
I expected him to say something.
And and I was thinking about, like, oh, wow.
First time we're seeing I think for some reason, know,
Darth Vader, since the passing of James Earl Jones, you know,
will they will they use the the AI thing that they that he saw
he gave them the rights to.
Yep.
Just sort of waiting for that.
And then he didn't say anything, which was, you know,
kinda like the it was impactful in in for for him.
You know, he doesn't need to say less is more.
So it was impactful in that way,
but I was expecting him to say something.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I I thought him not saying anything was a great way
to taunt Maul, who's very talkative.
Yeah.
You know?
And I just you know, for him to be like, who are you?
You're not like he's like,
I'm not I'm not even gonna do this with a response because I don't care.
Like, I just don't care about you.
But as far as the animation is concerned,
I just wanna say that I think it
Darth Vader's movements are very hindered. Right?
It was we know, like Yes.
Watching New Hope and Empire Strikes Back and whatever,
like, just because the suit was, you know,
very constricting.
But it's incredible that they were able to turn
something that were, like, he could barely move into
choreography that amounts to him being a powerhouse that he
doesn't even have to move.
And that's why he doesn't.
Amazing.
It, like, reframes how I, like,
think about the fight in Empire Strikes Back a little bit.
Yeah. Because he's like, I don't have to do anything.
I'm like, feel like one because he, like,
one hands Luke the entire time.
Right. Right. Right. Right.
Whatever.
It's only when Luke actually is, like,
continues to survive that he's like, alright.
Two hands.
Right. I'll use two hands.
And he actually, like almost, like, struggles by the end.
Like, Luke gets a hit in, which is Of course.
Yeah.
You know, incredibly hard.
And, you know, and Luke's so strong in the force that, like,
this is basically the only reason he can survive slash
Vader lets him live because, you know,
he wants to have the daddy son talk.
Sure. You know?
But
but I I liked the I liked him not speaking,
but it did occur to me while I was watching.
I was like, does he not speak because it's painful?
I think I put this in a Yeah.
Yeah. You might have.
Like, but I'll put this out on the podcast that, like,
Vader obviously slows down as the years go on because of his
extensive injuries.
And so he's just so but, like, moving around and lumbering,
it can't be comfortable, plus the fighting,
which despite him, like, I'm be almost, like, being, like,
this is all beneath me,
He still has to exert some kind of energy to fight
Jedi, a Padawan, and Maul.
So
so I think, like, in some ways speaking is like,
that's just a little too much for me.
So I'm gonna use it to my advantage in that, like,
it's gonna look like I am
super awesome and not talking to you,
but I'm actually maybe a little tired.
And, like, and I don't wanna exert the energy that it takes in order
to get this out there because he becomes less and less
effective as he go as he ages up.
Yeah.
I never I had never thought about that before you said that
in a text the other night, and I
He's got the black lung.
Like, that can't be good for speaking. Sure.
Yeah. Yeah. I I love this headcannon. Yep.
I love a good headcannon, Frank.
I love a good headcannon, man. Yeah. Absolutely.
It it's fun.
It's fun for for me to have my own headcanon and be like,
I because this thing is happening.
It just makes like you said, it lets you fill in the gaps.
Like, Star Wars lets you fill in the gaps, which is Yeah.
Which is one of the joys of Star Wars, filling in the gaps.
And this show does that well,
but a lot of Star Wars does that really well.
But it is it is what is so fun about being a fan.
Imagine Yes.
Yes.
The the stuff on the side. Yeah.
Frank, what else is great? Where people can find us.
Yeah.
You can head on over to Beer With Geeks dot com and, check out, gosh,
everything we've said about Star Wars in the thirty five
years we've been doing this show.
And
you can you can also head over to Apple Podcasts
or Spotify or YouTube, wherever
you get your podcasts and and find Beer With Geeks there.
You can rate and review us there.
You can subscribe and like and
follow and everything else.
And I should rate and review. Yeah.
So so please and tell a friend.
Please. Please tell all your friends.
Tell all your friends.
That lord lord, mall shall.
Lord, the shadow monster. What's it?
What is this show called? We've been doing this.
Shadow monster.
That's it.
Yeah. Lord, the shadow. Lord, the shadow monster.
That's the one. That's a great show.
It's Yeah. Really tremendous.
Couldn't ask for a better Star Wars show. Maul Shadow Lord.
Good stuff. Is he the Shadow Lord? Is Vader the Shadow Lord?
Just putting that out there.
Daki called Maul the Shadow Lord at one point.
He did.
Not knowing that that the inquisitors answered to a
different shadow lord.
This is true. Because he's a lord without a kingdom.
Just putting that out there.
True. Yeah.
So I guess I guess then Vader was
The real Phantom Menace.
No.
But
I guess he was in that in that hologram when we saw the it was yeah.
Because I I was convinced it was Sidious.
That's what I thought too.
Because actually,
it's funny because I when when I knew Sam Woodward did the
voice, I was like, oh,
well or Sam Woodward is a great Palpatine.
So he'll probably just do Palpatine Right.
When we see him. But we did not see him. Yep. Yeah. Yeah.
Actually, truthfully, I'll take Vader over Palpatine.
I mean, yeah.
And we got Palpatine in flashbacks, so good enough.
Excellent. So good.
Frank, it was great to talk to you as always. Until next time.
Cheers.
Cheers.
Happy revenge of the sixth.