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Oh, hey there folks. Brian Nichols here on today's episode of CX Without the bs. Today I am joined by my good buddy, Adam Rosen, founder of the email outreach company, and we're diving into a side of CX that most folks totally overlook the sales side. Yeah, that's right, because your customer experience does not start when someone files a support ticket.

It actually starts the moment you hit send on that first cold email. So if you're tired of blasting messages into the void or you're wondering why your outreach isn't landing literally or figuratively, you're gonna wanna stick around for this one. Alright, onto today's episode, Adam Rosen from the email Outreach Company here on CX without the bs.

What's new my friend? How you doing, Brian? It is always good to be here with you. Always good to catch up. So, uh, I'm excited to be here. Likewise, my man. Likewise, uh, I know, uh, you and I, we, we've been connected now for what, like two years or so, somewhere in there.

I think even longer. You were, you were one of the first when I started to get on podcasts [00:01:00] proactively about three years ago now. You were one of the first podcasts I was on and uh, I'm so happy we've been able to stay in touch, do some cool work together, and now get on your podcast again. Here we go, man.

Yeah. And that, that's my other podcast where I, I'm actually like two episodes away from episode 1000, which is just Wow. Insane to think about. Uh, like WI mean, what, what's the whole thing where you do a certain number of hours of something and that makes you an expert in that field? Like, do, do I need to grow a big, long, silvery beard like Gandalf at this point?

Am I, am I an expert in podcasting yet? I think they say it's 10,000 hours in a specific skill or a 1000 podcast episodes. So you've at least crossed off the thousand podcast episodes. Just checking some boxes. That's right. Uh, well, hey buddy, I'm, I'm really looking forward to this chat. Uh, now for folks listening to the show today, um, they might be looking at this and saying, wait, email outreach company.

That sounds much more in the world of sales development and elephant in the room. It is, uh, [00:02:00] however, I like to look at cx, um, or customer experience much further than the, the, like laser focus I see a lot of folks focus on with cx and that is when, when stuff goes wrong, right? Or, or you need to reach out to customer support or whatever.

There's a mentality that people have that that's the first touch point in a customer experience journey. I, I actually believe the opposite. I believe that your customer experience is any time that you are engaging with that prospect, that customer from either their reaching out to you. Or you reaching out to them.

And I would say it starts as early as the sales cycle, right? So you help organizations when they're trying to, to scale their outbound, um, you know, their outbound sales prospecting, and you're leveraging a tool called the email outreach company. It's your company. Um, so how about this? Do us a favor, just before we dig into how this all kind of fits into the CX world.

Just give us like the overview, you know, what is the email outreach company, what's kind of [00:03:00] your approach and, and how are you guys finding some success in that space? Absolutely. So for me, a little bit of background. I've always been an entrepreneur. I had a tech startup for about five years. Sold that company in 2019.

I ran a couple of real estate developments for a few years, and then I started this agency email outreach company. About four years ago now, where we work with some early stage startups and then massive brands like Allstate or the UFC to help drive their top of funnel, get them more sales appointments.

Those are some big orgs. UFC, Allstate. Yeah, I think we, we've heard of those before. Yeah, exactly. So, uh, it's, it's always fun to work with those big brands, but I also always love working with the companies that aren't as big of a brand too, because sometimes they need it more than anybody and have some great things to offer.

And like you said, Brian, too, what I was really interested in when we started talking about being on the podcast here is I'm a big believer that everyone within an organization has some role in customer success. Whether [00:04:00] you are in the customer success department, if you're in sales, if you're in technology, operations, hr, you name it, whoever is involved with interacting with the customer in some way, shape or form is involved in customer success.

Yeah, no, a hundred percent man. And, and, and that rate there is something I think gets way too often forgotten, right? Like we, I, and I don't know what it is about like the sales side of the house. Um, there, there's been this, like, I think it goes back to like the eighties and nineties personification of sales, right?

Is that the right word? Or the characterization of sales that is so like, there's this Glen Garry, Glen Ross, like clo yo coffee is for closers and sales has been. It's been created in such a way, in this stereotypical mentality of the smile and dial, the, you know, just, just the, the, the, you know, taking an SDR or an account executive and just, you know, burning them out, having them, you know, reach out to hundreds, thousands of prospects, you know, per week, per day [00:05:00] in some instances, right?

And, and really not paying attention to, Hey, am I calling the right person, right? Am I calling the right the right? Persona, am I calling the right companies that actually can use what I'm selling? Do I even know what I'm selling and how it helps solve the problems of the prospects I'm reaching out to?

Like, these are all the things that should be basics before we even engage in an outbound motion. And yet, Adam just, I'm gonna call it out for what it is. Way too many sales orgs are just like, oh, we, hi, we have a brand new AE who started yesterday. Alright, here is your login credentials. Uh, here is a list of a thousand names.

Get to Colin. Right. And I'm just like. What that, that's not onboarding, that's just a recipe for disaster. So let's just turn this to what you are seeing as you're starting out an outbound cadence, like especially when we're taking into consideration the customer experience, the customer journey, or in this case, the prospects experience [00:06:00] and journey.

Kind of walk us through what are some of the best practices from an email outreach company that are tried and true and obviously will work across the board, not just for, uh, for folks who leverage your services, whether I'm, you know, quote, unquote selling something to a, to a prospect, or when I'm in the other shoes and I'm buying something.

I think how you go through the buying process is indicative of what it will also be like if you work with that company. So if it's confusing, if it's unclear, if it's all over the place, if it's not direct, if it's not professional. Most likely if you work with that company, you're going to experience those things on steroids.

'cause people are most likely gonna be at their best when they are selling you. So if it's kind of fuzzy during the buying process, it'll most likely be fuzzy when you're working with that company. So. When I am in the sales, when [00:07:00] I'm, you know, doing my thing and selling to potential prospects, I want to make things representative of what it's like when you will work with us.

Mm-hmm. So I wanna keep things simple. I wanna keep things clear and direct. I want to be professional. I want to be conscientious. I want show that we are buttoned up because when you work with us, it is also going to be buttoned up. For me, there's a lot of red flags when I go through the buying process.

If the person is late to a call, if their camera's not on, if they're not giving me clear answers, if their pricing is confusing, if it's hard to buy. What that tells me is a big red flag. Most likely if I were to work with them, it's going to be all those things, but much, much worse. Mm-hmm. Talk to us more about the making it hard to buy.

Right? Which sounds so counterintuitive if you're in the world of sales. I mean, what are you trying to do? Right? You're trying to add more pipeline and close more revenue. Right. So the idea that there are organizations [00:08:00] that actually make it harder to buy sounds a little backwards. Yeah. When I say hard to buy, I typically mean their pricing is confusing.

Ah. So I actually had a post on this on LinkedIn the other day where I talked about how a lot of times when I meet with founders or sales leaders and I go through their sales process, a lot of times I hear the gap is when they start to go through pricing. Hmm. And typically people would think, oh, that means what you're offering is too expensive.

Oftentimes it's just really confusing. Like I said to one of the customers that I'm doing some sales consulting work for, they, I, they took me through their pricing and I said to 'em, I said, Hey, Brendan, I have no idea what your pricing even is here. Like if you were to tell me you have 20 guesses to guess what I'd be paying on a monthly basis, I would have no idea.

And because of that, I would never be a buyer because a confused buyer is never a buyer. So I think a lot, say that again. A confused buyer [00:09:00] is never a buyer. Exactly. No matter how good your offering is, if they are confused, they are not gonna buy one. If they are the buyer, they're not gonna buy because they don't know what they're buying.

But if they are not the buyer and they have to go up the ladder and their boss says, Hey, explain to me what this product is in the pricing, they're gonna be stumbling over their words and their boss is gonna say, well, if you don't know what this is. Why the heck are we gonna buy it? So if they are confused, you don't stand a chance in the process.

Which by the way, like if you're in a sales motion, we talk about identifying who there's two roles. Champion an economic buyer. Economic buyer. The person who's actually going ahead and putting pen to paper or in, or 21st century world, DocuSign or Pox or whatever, right? But the champion. Champion is the person who not only is gonna get the immediate value from what we're talking about, but the champion is the one who's also gonna help us sell internally, and most importantly, give us access.

Right? So if we're going through a champion. And they don't even know how [00:10:00] to articulate the value or the problems that we're addressing. How on earth do we expect them to not only sell internally, but then in turn get to a point where they feel comfortable enough to give us access to that economic buyer?

It's, it's completely counterintuitive to what we would normally walk through in a normal sales motion. Absolutely. Yeah. We have to make things simple. We have to make things clear and. That's why they always say in sales, you know, details create confusion. And then again, a confused buyer is never a buyer.

It's not how many things we say or telling them. Every little detail people are gonna forget. 90% of what you say they wanna know. How can your product or service. Solve this problem. And then what is the ROI gonna be? If you can keep things that simple, it'll make it easy for them to buy. And the same things on the customer success side.

What are those, those top KPIs we should be looking at to know if this is successful, or if it's unsuccessful? And if it's [00:11:00] unsuccessful, what are the three things we can look at to make sure that we can be more successful moving forward? But no matter if you're in sales, customer success, you name it, we gotta keep things simple.

Yeah. No, man. And, and like, let's, let's laser focus on this because obviously you're here today to talk about, from an email outbound standpoint, how we can best start that customer experience. So talk to us about like some of the best practices that you see when you're helping companies set up their outbound cadences.

Obviously leveraging you guys, but like what, what do you see in terms of taking those principles that we just talked about and the actual applications of, hey. Here you go. A, B, C, uh, you know, a, b, CR us. Like, go ahead and do your outbound, uh, CADing. We're gonna help you set it up. Here are the areas that we, we check the boxes to really fit, you know, fit the, uh, i, I guess the, the mold of what we're trying to accomplish here.

From an outbound standpoint, it's, it's really three things. One is deliverability. How do you land in the inbox? Landing in the inbox is harder than ever, so you have to have the [00:12:00] infrastructure that allows you to scale your, your outbound efforts. Number two is copy. There's ways to create hyper personalized copy that's basically account based marketing at scale.

But even going back to simplicity, the best email copy is how can you u You use as few words as possible to showcase how your, uh, product or service consolidate potential problem that they are facing with a very simple call to action. Hey, do you have 15 minutes to chat about this? That, that's the, the Kevin Malone approach, by the way, from the office.

Uh, he, he season, I think eight. Why say many word when few word do trick. You, you write many write you write. Alright, so, so landing in the inbox, the right copy, what's number three? Number three is list. So you have to be crystal clear on who is your buyer so that you can get lists that are going to represent your buyers, that when you do get meetings, they are relevant meetings with people that would actually be of, of, of benefit to your product or service.

So, wait, are you telling me that if we were to book a, you know, we're trying to go after [00:13:00] IT directors, let's say, and you were to book a meeting with the marketing director, that that might not be a good fit. You can find some value, you might be able to get, you know, handed off from there. But yes, correct.

Like when I'm, my team is booking meetings for me, like I will take just about every call as long as they fit a few benchmarks. 'cause I know our targeting is strong, but like when I get a C-level call, I'm trying to get off the phone as quickly as possible to respect my time into, respect their time as well.

So yes, the targeting is incredibly important 'cause you don't just want meetings on your calendar. We all have busy schedules. We wanna get high quality meetings and lists. The higher quality the list is, the higher quality the meetings are going to be. There you go. Alright, let's go back to, uh, number one here.

So. Landing in the inbox. Right. Um, now from a customer experience standpoint, uh, I know I look at my inbox. I mean, Adam, it is messy and that's putting it very lightly, right? Um, I might open, you know, 15 emails a day and. [00:14:00] Oh no, that, that's, that's not true. 15 real emails, right? And then the 90% of the other emails they open are garbage.

They're spam, they're, you know, they're marketing fluff. So landing in the inbox, to your point is, is hard enough, but actually getting the email not only into the inbox, but then into the purview of your prospect, that sounds like it's an even more difficult challenge. So, so how do you guys kind of bridge those two gaps?

Getting in the inbox, but making sure it's actually something that. The audience wants to click. Yeah, and the, the reality is for some companies it is easier than for other companies. Like when we work with some big names, it can be a little easier. When you work with m and a companies, you know, companies potentially looking to buy a company, it's a little bit easier versus when you're selling IT services, they're a little bit more challenging.

But the key is with any company is what is the hook? You know, what is that Trojan horse? How can we showcase to this prospect [00:15:00] that our customer is worth 15 minutes of your time to explore if their solution can solve your problem? So for every company, it's, we have to figure out like really what is that problem that your customer intimately feels?

And how can we showcase in a way to build trust that you can actually solve that problem? And again, you're worth their time. But it does take a lot of a lot of effort because to your point, Brian. We're all inundated, not just with emails, but you name the marketing medium. We are inundated with ads. The best advertisers know how to cut through the noise to showcase why you should speak to them now and not put it off.

Now, does that go directly into the copy or is that something, something additional before the actual meat and potatoes of the, the content of the email. It is about one again, landing in the inbox. 'cause you can't hit what you can't see. You gotta land there. It goes into the list quality because if you really understand your ICP, if [00:16:00] you really understand your ideal customer, then you should know what problems they're facing.

Like, I know when we're doing outreach to book neon meetings, we're reaching out to a lot of companies with a hundred to 500 employees, marketing leaders, sales leaders. I am sure 98% of them are facing the problems that we can solve because I know our, our customer deeply. If you know your customer, you should know the problems that they want to have solved, but then it goes into, again, copy that's going to resonate.

All you want to do in email is sell why they should read the next line. Mm-hmm. So the subject line is just selling. Why should they read the first line of the email, first line, the email is selling, why they should read the second line, and so on and so forth. And then the end of it is just selling why you are worth 15 minutes of their valuable time to get on a Zoom call with them.

Do you find, and this is maybe a little bit outside of cx, but do you find that the permission ba not permission based, but like the, the asking for the meeting, um, is as effective as what I've seen a lot more, you know, prevalent on, like LinkedIn for example, is, hey, [00:17:00] is this of interest? Right? So not so much asking for the, the actual meeting, but just garnering whether or not this is even something in their purview.

Lead magnets are great, like soft lead magnets like that, asking if they wanna see a case study or a white paper or a demo. You know, all those things are helpful, but at least for me and for most of our customers, what's the most valuable is that one-to-one screen time where you can actually have a conversation to solve their problem.

But, uh, I light asks like that one, is this of interest or good? But as a recipient for me, if it's of interest. Then show me why I should pursue this opportunity. Like I would prefer as a recipient, like, yeah, this actually is of interest. Let's talk, let's use one of the examples you brought up earlier in the show.

Um, UFC, right? Ultimate Fighting Championship. So just get, and you don't have to divulge any trade secrets, right? But I'm just curious, like, let's just pretend the UFC Dana White's on the call today. Hey Dana. Like what would be [00:18:00] a, I guess a, a. First landing in the inbox, like how would you do that? So folks don't look at the UFC and be like, the UFC is reaching out to me.

Is this spam, number one? Number two, what would the ad copy maybe look like? And I guess that is going right into who you're actually reaching out to for the list part, and then what the actual problem we're solving or value we're adding what that would look like. So what would that maybe use case or example be?

Yeah, let's, let's just throw an example out UFC's hosting event in San Antonio in September, let's say they wanted to get, uh, adverti a new ring advertiser. So they're gonna have, uh, a new advertiser in the octagon, I should say. So let's say they want to go after airlines. They wanna reach out to, let's say, American Airlines.

Let's say we wanna reach out to the head of marketing at American Airlines to see if they would wanna be a sponsor in the Octagon for their upcoming event. So [00:19:00] boom, we get an email for that individual. The copy of the email first, the email where it gets sent from. This goes for everybody. Never, ever, ever do cold outbound from your primary domain and your primary email inbox.

You always want to create new domains that you send from. So like we are never gonna be sending from ufc.com, we are gonna be creating all these like dummy cold email domains that we send from. Hey, Adam, really quick. Does that ever raise confusion? Because I know for myself, right? I, I used to work in the cybersecurity space, right?

So whenever we get an email, I would actually look to see like, is this actually from the ufc? Oh no, this is from ufc.biz.co.com. Like, I'm not gonna click that link. Yep. So some people who are very conscientious, they'll notice it. 95% never notice it. Um, but for the 5% that are conscientious like you, Brian, yeah, you might go to ufc.go.biz, and then what's gonna happen though is it's gonna redirect you.

To the UFC's [00:20:00] website, so you're still gonna get redirected there. Um, but it's become a, not a nice to have anymore. It's a must have. Like I was on a panel recently in Vegas with this CEO that's, that runs a billion dollar company and he's doing a quarter million dollars worth of. Facebook ads every single week.

That's always been his Every week. Every week. Yeah. And that's always been his biggest, uh, lead gen magnet form for a very long time. So he'd get people in his funnel through Facebook ads, then he would run email campaigns to convert them, and it was a very simple math equation for a very long time. Then all of a sudden he just saw it drying up.

He was getting top of funnel through Facebook ads, but their email was not converting anymore. Hmm. And he met with his CMO and his COO and he is like, what the hell is going on? This used to be such a great channel, and they're like, oh, it's no big deal. It's nothing. No worries. Long story short, they were emailing from their primary domain.

Yeah, their domain was on the verge of being blacklisted because of [00:21:00] all the emailing they were sending from their primary domain. Really? So they lost millions and millions of dollars because really of the negligence of the CMO and the COO, not realizing you shouldn't email from your primary domain, because the, the threshold now with Google and Yahoo and Microsoft is so low.

They have such a keen eye on what they allow in the inbox versus spam. If you start to get marked as spam within your domain, you can ruin your domain health and get you blacklisted. So that's why you need to create these new domains that look like your domain will redirect, but aren't being sent from your domain.

Interesting. Now. How many domains should you be paying attention to? Right? Because I, I know, you know, as a small business owner, uh, as, as someone who works in the small business world, like anybody who hears that, they might be like, oh, so like one or two, like, what, what, what is the best use case or practice there?[00:22:00] 

It depends on the scale. So that's fair for us. Our number one source of new business. Over half of our 150 customers come from my team setting up cold email meetings for me on my calendar. We have a huge universe of potential customers for my company, so because of that, we need to have a lot of domains.

We probably have 1500 inboxes. We're sending from probably about 500 domains. We have set up wait, 1,500 inboxes. Yep. And the reason why is you really can send more than 10 emails per inbox per day. Any more than that, you'll get flagged as spam. Really. So that's why you want to have this big infrastructure built.

So even when we work with some of our smaller customers, we're still building 50, a hundred, 150 inboxes for them on the low end of the scale. And that's about 30, 40, 50 domains we're creating for them. So it just, it's a must have. Now in the email world, if you don't do it, [00:23:00] you're, you're setting yourself up to fail.

How much does that cost to set up? 1500 inboxes or domains rather, or inboxes? Yeah. Um, number one and then number two, how much is that to manage? That just sounds like it. I mean, I know the whole, you know, how do you eat the elephant? One bite at a time. Fair. But this is a big ass elephant at. If you were to ask this three years ago, two years ago, it would be a nightmare and very, very expensive.

Now, there's great services out there, like one, I'll give a shout out. They've had to deal with some tough things over the last month or so, but they've done a good job of rebounding from it. It's a company called Male Doso. You can get inboxes for just over two bucks now per inbox. They set everything up for you, DNS records, et cetera.

So there's tools out there to keep the price low. And it's not like it's a ton of work on your end because, you know, there's a lot of emailers out there. There's a lot of companies like ours that have, we probably have 10, 15,000 inboxes that my team is managing, and I don't have a big team. I [00:24:00] probably, I think 18 or 19 people on the team currently.

So it, it's, it's not like it's as, uh, cumbersome as it may sound. Interesting. And that company was called Male Doso. Yeah, male Doso. They're one of many great ones out there that we work with. Inbox Lo is another good one. Uh, their price is comparable to male doso as well, but there's good services out there that could do it for you.

And how do you know if your domain is, is at risk? Like, are there, are there warning signs, like all of a sudden, like to your point earlier, that example, the, the leads just stop converting, or is there something else to pay attention to? Yeah, you can look up to see if you actually are blacklisted tools like MX Tool toolbox or Toolkit I think it is.

You could check to see if your domain is actually blacklisted, but the best. And there's tools like if you use an instantly out there, they'll give you an idea of your domain health. It's never a hundred percent accurate 'cause it's impossible to really know exactly what your domain health is. But the best tracker of your domain health and the best [00:25:00] breadcrumbs to see if you may be negatively affected is your reply rate.

So if you do a good job tracking data and your reply rate goes from 3% to 0.4%, there's a good chance your inbox, your emails just aren't being delivered. So what about like the sales guys or the sales gals who are working for, you know, um, a, b, C corporation, you know, big, big entity or mom and pop, right?

Like they're doing outbound emails. Uh, maybe they're doing one-off emails to, you know, end customers. Or, in my world, I'm in the channel, right? So I'm reaching out to technology advisors, like, am I at risk for doing these one-off email outreaches, you know, sending 15, 20 emails a day or, or, or am I safe? If it's cold, like, you know, they haven't opted in, they're not responding to you, uh, you could be at risk because the reality is like we use tools out there like call clay.

Clay creates hyper-personalized emails. Every email looks drastically different [00:26:00] from what, let's just call it Adam at, you know, abc eoc works.com. Let's say we create that domain. If we were to send 10 emails in that day, those 10 emails would be spread out, you know, within hours of each other. They're not, it's gonna seem like it was sent one at a time.

So Google doesn't know if I sent it one by one by one, or if I use an automation tool to do it. So that's why even if you are manually sending 17 emails a day, outbound, if you're getting spam reports on those, if you're not getting replies. Google might think you're a mass emailer anyway, because you're above that 10 email threshold.

Wow. So, so it's not just the big outbound companies. And, and this is like common misconception, right? Like I, I see this a lot. I, I'll talk to small business owners and I'll ask 'em about like their outbound sales processes and, and they'll be like, uh, yeah, you know, we have a, a couple sales guys. But to your point, all it takes is a couple [00:27:00] of those sales guys doing.

Mass emails. And by the way, there's a bunch of tools that I know these, these orgs use. Like there's your outreach, uh, your, your Apollos, your front spins of the world, right? And you can set your, your domain to those and then just start doing cold emails. So like, if you're an AE and you start ripping out, you know, 200 emails a day, just going to a, a no call, email only list, you could find yourself in hot water.

And to your point earlier, like. That doesn't go away. Like once you nuke the domain, it's newt like, is, is there ever any chance of getting it back? You can get it back, but it's not like there's, you can't pay any amount of money to get it back. You can't do anything specific. There's one way to get it back.

It's time. That's it. It's really time and that will get it back, but it takes a long time. And all you need is one seller that's not even being nefarious. They, they just don't know. Like, I'll talk to companies all the time and they'll be like, oh, my team's not doing that much e [00:28:00] outbound. To your point, Brian, they're like, only sending about 70 emails a day.

And I'm like, 70 emails. That's, that's far above the threshold. You know, now if it's warm emails, like people in the CX world, it might be a little more warm. And in that case it's, it's different. But still Google, Yahoo, Microsoft, they are so finicky and they call the shots, they change the rules every day, every week, every month.

And we, we are not in control. The best we can do is evolve to their rules because mm-hmm. We're in their, we're in their playground, they're not in our playground, we're in theirs. It goes back to the whole thing I used to teach business owners. Um, when you're talking about rented land, um, like Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, don't get cozy, right?

Because that's not yours that you, you, you are a guest on their platform and all it takes is them to tweak one, uh, one, you know, algorithm. Like I'm seeing folks on LinkedIn right now, like my content doesn't reach the people that used to. I used to get so [00:29:00] many more likes, um, and I'm just like, well. That sounds like a you problem, like, like build your email list.

Like find, find other avenues to own your, your own like. Outreach and I guess like going full circle here 'cause we are getting close to time here, Adam, but like, this is where orgs like the email outreach company really add value because for business owners hearing this or sales dev leaders hearing this or customer experience, uh, leaders hearing this, they're probably thinking like, geez, that's a lot.

Like, we have to make sure we're, we're getting into the right inbox and in front of the right person. We gotta make sure the copy actually is speaking to the pains that, that folks are having or mentioning to your point ROI and asking for that call to action or asking if there's interest. And then, oh, by the way, we gotta make sure that we're going after the right people, right?

And have the right list. So you put all that together. I mean, that could be weeks, months, quarters of building things out just to hit the green go button. You guys are doing that all at once for companies and you're getting things going in literally like a few days to a week or so. So like, talk to us about [00:30:00] the email outreach company to folks listening today.

Um, you know, just, just some more insight into if they wanna learn more or if they're saying, you know, I'm signed up. Let's go, Adam. Sounds like the man. I wanna go ahead and, and get rocking and rolling today. What does that look like? Yeah. The reality is in marketing, what I've seen, I, I don't care what marketing channel you're using, but the value of a lead continues to rise because how challenging it is to get eyeballs and engaged eyeballs no matter what platform or channel you are using.

Email is no different, like it used to be relatively easy. You get a list, you put a mail merge in, and you send a bunch of emails from your domain, your inbox, and you could get results. The reality is it's just not that anymore. So if you have any questions related to email, there's a good chance we're doing it.

Whether it's like CRM integration, engaging with warm leads, uh, current customers, new customers through cold outbound, building out newsletters, getting email lists, you name it, there's a good chance we're doing it. And if you have any, just more general [00:31:00] questions related to the email and the future of email, just let me know because I, I was having this conversation with my business partner just a few hours ago.

I. The reality is on all these channels, when you're doing cold marketing, it is cold marketing. When you do a Facebook ad, it's you're putting it out cold, and then people that are interested are filling out the form and they are now warm. It's the same idea with email. You're putting out a cold message.

The people are, that are interested are coming back warm. But with all those other channels, there's a chance. Facebook could be gone. TikTok could be gone. LinkedIn could be gone. Google some of might eat their lunch even, but email is not going anywhere. Now. The rules are gonna change. They're always gonna change.

The rules of every platform are gonna change. Landing the inbox will be harder than ever. But I am incredibly bullish on email ain't going nowhere. You just have to figure out how do you best leverage it in 2025 and beyond because the game is changing but it's still working. If you can still do a few things properly to make sure that [00:32:00] you're playing within the new rules that all these providers are are setting for us.

There we go. Adam Rosen, we have one question that we always ask guests at the end of every show, and that is Adam, in your year, uh, a year, we'll go from July of 24 to July of 25, right? In the past calendar year, what is the biggest piece of BS that you've been seeing in this greater CX customer experience, customer journey world?

Uh, what, what do you, what, I guess, what are you seeing, uh, as that big piece of BS.

I want to give you something really, uh, short, sweet, and profound that's related to what I've been going through and that your audience might be going through.[00:33:00] 

You can automate everything. Mm-hmm. I think a lot of people think that because of technology and ai, you can automate and take our, take all manual effort away from us. I forget it. Yeah, I'm a huge believer in ai. We use a ton of it. I am a huge believer in automation, but at the end of the day, humans want to interact with humans.

They wanna know that you care about them, that you know, like, and trust them. So whether it's the CS side or CX side, whether it's the sales side, you name it, you have to keep that human component where they can feel that. And you have to put that into every little thing that you do. Uh, man, I, I cannot agree more.

Um, we, we've seen this, especially you, you hit the nail on the head, the AI piece. Like, if I see another company with a.ai at the end of their na their name, I'm gonna lose my mind because just because it's the shiny new object does [00:34:00] not mean it's solving all of the problems. It, it's just, it's another thing on the, the list, it's another tool in the tool belt.

But to your point, the thing that. I can't agree more, man. Like the thing that's going to really differentiate folks going forward is going to be that hi, not, not the ai, the hi that human intelligence, and with that there's that authenticity. There's just that feeling that, you know, that there's a real person on the other end of the, the, the phone, the email, whatever it may be.

That actually understands not hearing you, right? This is like the classic husband wife debate, right? Did you listen to me or did you hear me? Right? Like, this is the part where people are feeling that as well. They don't wanna reach out to some organization and just get. Stuck with automation, right? They want to have a real person almost go and embrace the suck with them.

Like, dude, I, I'm trying to fix this man, this sucks. Ah, yeah, that does suck. Like, I'm so sorry you're having to go through that. I've gone through that myself. Like that type of thing. [00:35:00] AI is not gonna do, right. AI is gonna be programmed to be tactile efficient to the point like, let me answer this question in the most effective way and, and like.

It can't empathize. It just can't, it can't say, oh yeah, me, AI went through the same thing you did. No, you didn't, you didn't exist until, what, three years ago? So, like, that's, that's the part I, I, I can't agree more, man. You cannot automate everything. You cannot AI everything. You still have to put forth that ai, that human intelligence.

Adam Rosen, what a pleasure having you back in the show. Um, again, let us know where folks can go ahead, reach out, they wanna learn more, um, LinkedIn, all that fun stuff. And of course, email outreach. Company floor is yours. No thank you Brian. Always, uh, always good to chat with you. I appreciate you having me on.

So my website is eoc works.com. My email is adam@eocworks.com. If you do have any questions or you wanna find out how we could work together and then on LinkedIn, you can find me at Adam i Rosen. Adam Rosen, you are one of my favorite people in this sales development [00:36:00] world. You're doing amazing things and you're solving very real problems that every single person and business that's in an outbound sales motion is experiencing.

So folks, if you want to learn more, all those links will be included in the show notes. But with that, we're gonna go ahead and put a pin in today's, uh, interview with Adam Rosen on CX without the bs.

All right folks, that's gonna do it for today's episode of CX Without the bs. Huge shout out to Adam Rosen for pulling back the curtain on what's really going on with cold email from deliverability to list building to just plain, not making it impossible for people to buy from you. And listen, if you took one thing away from today's episode, keep this in mind.

You cannot automate your way out of caring. At the end of the day, people buy from people. They, they want to feel heard, not just. Herded. So, uh, you can find adam@eocworks.com or hit him up directly, um, over on LinkedIn. All the links will be in the show notes. And as always, if you [00:37:00] like this episode, do me a favor.

Drop a like, hit that subscribe button. Tell your grandma, tell your boss, your bartender, whoever it is, and I will go ahead and see you next time. This is Brian Niles signing off for CX without the bs.