#citizenweb3

Episode link:
https://www.citizenweb3.com/derekwills

Episode name:
Statism and the Secrets to Happiness with Derek Wills

Citizen Web3 
Hi, everybody. Welcome to a new episode of the Citizen Web3 podcast. Yes, I finally did it and said the new name correctly and didn't say the old name. I'm doing well. Today, I have a special guest with me today. He isn't a validator. He isn't the founder of a blockchain project. He's not a VC, and he doesn't even work for the SEC. His name is Derek Wills. He's an author of the book of Liberty Solutions, if I'm not mistaken.

The correct name, Derek will correct me if I mispronounced the title here. I hope not. Derek, hi, welcome.

Derek Wills (@AncapAir)
Hi, how are you doing, man?

Citizen Web3 
I'm doing good, man. I've been looking forward to this conversation. And the bummer is I didn't get any sleep last night. And it's always like that. The once and a half a year that I'm really like excited to have a conversation with somebody who I share values with. I'm like, I feel like that. And I'm like, damn it. Why? Why today?

Derek Wills (@AncapAir) 
Yeah, life definitely always throws you curveballs, right? Right when you least need them, and I believe me, I understand.

Citizen Web3
Man, I know and how's that? Let's do some cheats. How's how's the weather for you today? Are you having a good day today? You know, let's do this chit chat thing to get the ice breaking

Derek Wills (@AncapAir) 
Oh yeah, it's actually quite nice. So I live in the Dallas Fort Worth area in Texas, and you know, usually the weather is quite brutal today. It is a mild 54 degrees outside and you know, not raining. And so it's actually quite nice. It'll be like this for another week or two, and then we'll have another probably 90 degree heat wave just in time for Christmas. And then.

And then we'll get our, our two weeks of real winter in like late January.

Citizen Web3 
So here it is.

Citizen Web3 
Nice, nice. You know, the irony is being a really stubborn person with values that I am from drought. All your speech, what stuck with me was the stigma, yourself being a libertarian and Texas. Because everybody who is non-American has a stigma and I'm non-American, obviously, as you can hear, I'm going to give you a secret, guys. But you know.

Derek Wills (@AncapAir)
Mm-hmm.

Citizen Web3 
Um, all of us, the non-American people, we have a stigma. Texas is like, you know, bam, cowboys guns like bam, you know, and this is of course, the image that has been built over the years by, by the society we live in, you know, the culture we live in. So it's ironic that, that it's like that, you know, and, but am I being completely foreign stigmatic and, and anti-American here or, or not, or is it normal stigma to have?

Derek Wills (@AncapAir) 
No, so Texas has this reputation, uh, all across America that, you know, exactly what you described, uh, but it's actually wholly inaccurate. That's the worst part. Like even Texans, uh, buy into the bullshit that, uh, you know, we're the greatest state in the union and you know, we got our goods and then.

In reality, no, Texas is just as much of a status shithole as any other state. It might be a little bit better than California or New York, but it's still, it's not a libertarian paradise. It's just as status as anywhere else. It's one of those things that, with a philosophy like mine, you never really have a political home, if you will.

Citizen Web3 
I really connect to that last sentence. Before I stopped where I am today, I traveled for almost 20 years, a lot of countries. I traveled a lot, a lot, a lot. And luckily I was able to with what I was doing. And I still don't connect the words political and home, but at least I managed to find something which was a bit closer. At least aroused the tickle, tickle that feeling.

that you're talking about. How does one even find a political home? What does one have to look for in a political home?

Derek Wills (@AncapAir) 
You know, I think that there's no such thing as an actual political home. Um, and I think that if we're searching for a solution in a status ideology, then we're we've already lost as, as human beings. So, uh, you know, I, I wish there was some sort of easy way to go about it, but, uh, in this day and age, I just.

don't think that there's going to be a I don't think that there's a simplified way to get to a place where we're all happy and you know, not dehumanizing one another based off of differences and opinion and things like that without some sort of massive negative event happening. So I really I can't answer that.

Citizen Web3 
Absolutely. 100% I'm with you. This is interesting, man, because I'm still understanding that I need to go back and ask you to introduce yourself and stuff like that. But this is already like I'm starting to talk in normal conversation. Sorry, forgot about all the stuff that I'm supposed to ask you about introductions and stuff and books. But um, no, but this is much more interesting. You know, it's like, it's interesting because you are over the last

for years, I've recorded a lot of people and I spoke to people who are, well, I'm part of that industry for the last, over the last 10 years, supposedly building an alternative free industry. But there is something very ironic of finding it. Everybody's too fucking optimistic in that industry. And it really scares me because when you talk out in the field to people and I once did a show on the road.

And I was asking all those guys at the conference, all those founders, I was like, but honestly, like it was a set of same questions and one of them, they all got stuck on, I was saying, so what you do today, whatever it is you're building, whatever products you're building, do you really think, hand on your heart, there is a person that are out there today in the world that you're solving the problem for that you make in the world a better place. And this is exactly what you're talking about, about an event that has to happen. That something, you know, yeah, it's just ironic that the person that

is not from that, like directly from the industry sees it like that clearly. And people who are trying to build an industry don't want to see that they believe that, you know, they can, a lot of them believe that they can save and change, you know, the politics of today to, to become better or, or more. Right. Yeah. I dunno. What do you think about that? Does it make sense?

Derek Wills (@AncapAir) 
I understand why people think that. I'll put it like that. Do I agree with it? No, I don't think that there's any way that you can vote for a positive change in the world. Uh, I, voting to me is it's the adult version of writing a letter to Santa. It is a, um, it's an acknowledgement and an endorsement of your status as a slave to the state. So. There's no.

There's no positive outcome that can ever take place by, you know, voting at the ballot box. You know, Republicans, this is a prime example, Republicans will swear up and down, they are for limited government, they are for shrinking government from its current size, and have, they have never once, even whenever they had total power in both chambers of Congress and held the White House,

They have never once decreased the size of government. They've never even maintained the current level of government. They've always expanded it. So it's, I mean, people are getting lied to. They know they're getting lied to and they continue to buy into the lie. Um, I mean, Trump is another great example of this. You know, you have these, these people that worship Trump, um, and

They'll take exception with my use of the word worship. They're like, no, he's just not a politician or whatever, whatever bullshit they want to tell themselves. And it's like, dude, he has been he printed more money in one year than most presidents in their entire term. In 2020, he had the Federal Reserve and the Treasury print six point six trillion dollars.

And whenever you point this out, you know, people just make excuses for it. They'll be like, oh, well, you know, it was COVID or whatever. That's not, that's not an excuse to devalue our dollar even more than it already was. And that's worthy of criticism, very fierce criticism. And if you can't criticize them for that, well, then you're clearly in a cult. That's that's, and that's what people do.

Citizen Web3 
You know, in crypto, there is like a bit of an evil joke, a bit of a soft spot for Trump's printing go brrrr because they say, well, at least they made a good bull market. You know, all those Americans went and put their fiat money in crypto and that's where we got now the bull market. So suddenly all that cash came from, thank you, Trump. I mean, at least, you know, you did one good thing. But no, of course, you know, this is like kind of a joke. And the thing is like you started to say something and that points me to the last question I had for you.

Derek Wills (@AncapAir) 
Hahaha

Citizen Web3 
But I'm going to ask it now because it's just spot on. You know, like I said, I traveled a lot. And I've been different places, done different things. And one of the things I noticed, not on the good side, there are good sides that change in terms of people's thinking. But one of the, and this is the question I have to you, that what I notice is people.

not just being lied to, they believe those lies. And as we progress, it seems people are getting, they're so scared, they're so terrified of anything, of pointing a finger, of just moving the finger, God forbid, pointing the finger, you know, just holding, not even a fist, you know? So how do we, is there a solution to that? How do we get rid of that fear, man?

Derek Wills (@AncapAir)
I, that is a, that is the question I ask myself all the time. It's, it's, it's why I do what I do online. Uh, I just, I just try to reach people. It's, it, I don't, if there was a way to take over the propaganda machine and there was a, an algorithm or some methodology that I could implement that could change people's minds overnight, I would do it in a heartbeat. Um,

but it is a very tough, evil entity that we're fighting here. The Stockholm syndrome runs deep in the people that are subject to it. And that's Democrats, that's Republicans, that's even more than a handful of libertarians that believe that there is a solution in statism. And it's just wrong.

I would love to be able to reach those people and show them the error of their ways, not in a belittling or demeaning, like you're fucking wrong type way, but as a way of like, hey, look, you've been misled. These are all lies. This is the reality of the situation. I would love to be able to do that to people and get it to click for them. But that is so hard to do. We're talking about generations

brainwashing and conditioning that we're trying to break. And I don't think that there is an easy solution to it. If there was, man, I'd be all over it. But I just think that the best way that we can do it now is just keep doing, keep chipping away at it as best as we can. I know that's not a great answer. It's not an optimistic answer, but it's the only one that we really have at the moment.

Citizen Web3 
me if I'm wrong, your book is kind of about, what's the English word here? Guidance, guidance, may I use that word? Like for a freer society, so to speak. So is that correct to say or am I misinterpreting the message here? A bit bridged in between the lines. You know, like, this is the...

Derek Wills (@AncapAir) 
Yeah.

Derek Wills (@AncapAir) 
No, no, no. That's kind of how I wrote it is, you know, I didn't want to write to an echo chamber. I didn't want to, you know, it certainly resonates with people who are already pro-liberty minded, but I wanted to take a systemic approach to highlighting the various atrocities that the state commits. And so the book, it has two parts.

Citizen Web3 
very.

Derek Wills (@AncapAir) 
Part one, it takes real world scenarios that the state has actually committed, things that the state has actually done to people. And it's not tailored for the left or for the right. These are things that the state has done that violates our natural rights. And to show them that no matter what, your rights have been violated, even if you acknowledge it, your rights are being violated.

And then part two kind of gives a guide on how we could do better as a society, um, as a free stateless society. Uh, it's not, and it's, it's very clear. This is not the only methodology by which we can achieve this, but it is one. And we can, you know, expand upon this and, you know, Institute some trial and error if we need to, but ultimately.

It would mean a freer individual, a happier individual, an individual who doesn't have the fruits of their labor robbed from their, you know, right off the top of their income or at the point of sale, or, you know, being extorted an arbitrary value of their property. It would really benefit every single person, including those who would find themselves in destitute situations because...

We're no longer relying on the state to steal from us and then help the less fortunate. We can be more charitable in ourselves and we are incredibly charitable now. And that's another thing that I highlight is just how charitable we are as a people and just how much that would increase without the state. And so I take this type of approach and I do it. I at least I tried to do it.

in a very calm and not demeaning manner, just to say, look, here is a blueprint. Let's, let's build from here. And, you know, based off of the reviews that I've gotten, I, I think I've done a pretty good job of that. But, but that was my goal. It was, it is kind of a guide as here's some foundational arguments that we can do that we can use and, and kind of go from there.

Citizen Web3
You know, while you were speaking, I just had the most, you know, silliest, like, I'm going to use the word manifestation. I'm going to over exaggerate here a little bit, you know, but a lot of people outside of the libertarian scope of thinking or for whatever reason, they always have this, especially those who are not familiar with any work of

anarchy, what is anarchy or any libertarian forms of propositions, at least, you know, of different forms of lesser evil forms of status, if I may use that, even though it's paradoxical, but okay. But like, you know, a lot of them, like they go to this argument. So what is then the goal of anarchists to destroy? This is interesting. Like here is you sitting here and you're telling me that what you did, what your job was is to write the guidance on how to, and I'm thinking here while you're saying that men,

I wrote a piece, an article about six years ago, it's on my blog, exactly the same, which is a guidance on... So the goal of By the Looks of It, of every anarchist, is how to create a fucking lovable society, how to create peace and not how to... This is the irony of all of this fucking situation. It's just... It really is a fucking vicious cycle though. That's what scares me.

Derek Wills (@AncapAir) 
Yeah. And I mean, the state does us no favors, right? The word anarchy has been bastardized. It has been twisted to mean lawlessness, chaos. They describe Jesus Christ. They described the January six quote unquote insurrection as like anarchy. You know, there's anarchy at the Capitol. It's like, OK, first of all, fuck off with that.

January 6 was I don't even know if I want to go into that was such a such a bullshit. But that's not anarchism. Neither is neither is looting in the streets and protest. That's not anarchism. That's setting fire to police state. I mean, that might be anarchy now. But anarchism really is like

It's our daily interactions that don't have the state attached to it. So, I mean, we engage in anarchism regularly. Uh, you know, this conversation right now is done in anarchy because the state doesn't really kind of control it at all. Um, you know, if you, if you sell, if you grow some, you know, some vegetables and somebody's like, Hey, I'll give you, you know, 20 bucks for.

a few years of corn or whatever, and you're like, sure. That voluntary exchange, that's anarchism in practice. There's no violence there. It's free voluntary exchange. It is owning yourself, owning the fruits of your labor. And, you know, people think that, oh, well, you're arguing for this anarchist utopian. No, anarchism isn't utopian by any stretch of the word.

You know, there's going to be bad things that happen to good people. There's going to be bad people who are successful and have influence. Of course, that's just how life is. It's very unfair. But what anarchism does is it levels the playing field for everybody. There's no centralized monopoly on violence that's going to pit one person against another. There's no.

Derek Wills (@AncapAir)
You have these mega corporations that are using eminent domain to steal people's property. That won't happen. If some mega million dollar, billion dollar, multi billion dollar corporation decides to sue somebody in their $250,000 house for whatever reason, there's no convoluted law and judicial system that they can use to...

to exploit that individual. It's all done on a free market supply and demand type basis. And that individual that's being targeted by that multi-billion dollar corporation legitimately has a level playing field against them. They can throw all the resources that they want at him, but it doesn't matter because he still has, he still has his rights retained.

There are neutral third parties that can adjudicate this on a purely fair basis. Uh, because failing to do so would negatively impact the neutral third party. Right. So it really is a fairer system. Is it utopian? No. What's utopian is this idea that just the right amount of people controlling just the right amount of violence can make the world a better place. That's statism. Statism is utopian.

Citizen Web3 
mute button. My all time favorite example of anarchy that always gets people is homeschooling. That is the, it's like guys, whenever you want to talk about violence and anarchy, just expectations and reality. The reality is that homeschooling is the number, like for me, it's always, and it's like you said, I love the fact that you said about statism and perfection.

Derek Wills (@AncapAir) 
Yes.

Citizen Web3 
One of the oldest teachings of Zoroastrianism, I believe, or is it Buddhism? I might get mixed up here, but the idea of the philosophy of perfection and that the biggest problem of humanity is perfection because nature doesn't have perfection. Nature is anarchy that works in any young balance and there is no such thing as perfection, which what is the human mind creates, which cannot exist. So that's why we always strive towards something that is unreal.

Hence we always stress blah, of course, like going like spiritual, but it's pretty much what you're saying, like in different explanations.

Derek Wills (@AncapAir) 
Yeah, no, I mean, you're 100% right. There is no perfect system. But our attempts to control one another only adds to the imperfection. So you can't create, I mean, the best thing that we can do is to live with what we've been given and enjoy that.

Trying to control and manipulate it into this system that supposedly is more fair is only going to inherently make it more fair. We as human beings are imperfect. And if we try to control something, we're going to inject our imperfections into already something that's imperfect. So it's going to just compound the problem.

Derek Wills (@AncapAir) 
I hope I've explained that properly because yeah.

Citizen Web3
You explained it perfectly. Well, to me, to me, it sounds like music to my ears. I don't know if it's I mean, I totally understand what you're saying, because to me, the whole chase, I mean, I mean, you never see a perfect elephant, you never see a perfect tree. I mean, if trees were perfect, they would all be the same, right? There would be one type of I don't know, tree that would always repeat itself, but it doesn't do that, right? There is ugly tree, there's ugly puppies, there's ugly, I'm sorry, but there are, you know, there's ugly humans, there's ugly

Derek Wills (@AncapAir) 
Hahaha

Citizen Web3 
There's ugly everything and it's okay, it's normal. There is nothing wrong with it. And this is this sickness of us, I think, to strive towards perfection. But you also, Derek, by the way, before... By the way, sorry, just for the listeners, as always, there is obviously show notes. So if you haven't read the book from Derek, please find the link in the show notes and enjoy. Of course, all the other things that we mentioned as well, I'll be most of them.

be linked as well. You also have a Twitter account which is also going to be obviously linked there guys, so if you don't follow Derek, please do. What's, let's talk, tell me and the listeners about your Twitter account as if I've never heard of it, I've followed it for a while, but what's it about, why do you do it, what's the point?

Derek Wills (@AncapAir)
So I have a very specific mission in my Twitter account. You know, I realize that memes are kind of like the quintessential philosophical tool nowadays. So I try and make memes that, or find memes that I think resonate. And if I can't find one, I'll try and make one. But I also write.

essays. They're short reads, but for Twitter, they're pretty long. I write essays designed to explain what the meme is trying to say. Take a social contract, for instance. I posted one that has a picture of Lysander Spooner. It says social contract. I didn't sign shit. And then I go on and explain why social contract theory is invalid on its face and why it doesn't work.

Um, my most recent one, it actually, I didn't have a meme. I took a page out of my book that shows the value of the dollar from its inception from 1792 until 2021. Uh, and how it's just fallen to nothingness. And I explain what causes inflation, which is, uh, which is a buzzword and it's improperly used, why it's improperly used and explain what, what's actually happening is devaluation.

I explain how we counter that. Well, how do we solve the money problem? And it's found in decentralized crypto currencies and private minting of precious metals. And why? And that's another important thing. I go into why that is. It's designed to be simplistic and something that everybody can understand. The I will say that the inflation one that I just wrote

it does go into, you know, some complex things like the M1 money supply or and what that is. But I try and keep it simplistic. And it's again, it's not designed to talk down to anybody. I do not want to do that. But I also know that these issues, these they can be complex, they can be convoluted and they can be confusing. So I try to present it in a very clear and concise way that everybody can understand.

Derek Wills (@AncapAir)
And that's what I hope to do. I hope to keep taking topics like this, expounding upon them in a very clear and concise way and explaining why an anarcho-capitalist society would fare far better than in this particular issue that I'm writing about than the current status quo. And if I can get enough people to resonate with that, I think that we're off to a good start. And I think I've done a...

a fairly good job at that. I am definitely not opposed to criticism and debate. I've had people play devil's advocate. I've had people ask questions that were completely clueless like, well, what about this, and this? I will do my best to explain it to them. If I don't know the answer, I will absolutely say, I don't know. I'm not one to blow smoke up somebody's ass.

human just like anybody else. I and if I don't know the answer, I will I will find it or somebody else will chime in. And I hope to encourage that type of discussion.

Citizen Web3 
And here is another bonus to the director mentioned to his memes is that if your girlfriend isn't an anarchist, they really help. Like, you know, there's a customer's donation to do all my girlfriends and listening to this episode, really. I'm so going to get it. But it's been a few nights, you know, where I had to explain a lot of things after them showing the man, but it helps. It helps. It's like, okay, we'll connect to that. But I mean, when you say it's so ironic that, you know, by doing completely different things, you know,

Pretty much it means that over the 10 years of working in and around blockchains and being in this industry, like professional, I was 15 roughly, but I've been around before. It's ironic that over time I realized that if you want to really like pill somebody, then you don't mention blockchain. You don't talk about decentralized cryptocurrencies. You tell them how the system works. You tell them what M1 is, what is M0, what is deflation, what is inflation, what is M...

monetary issuance, what is, how does the central bank work? What is a bank account? And this is how people connect to it. And what I'm saying, it's just astonishing that we all come to the same conclusion that just show people the fucking truth. That's it. They will cry for a solution.

Derek Wills (@AncapAir) 
Yeah.

Derek Wills (@AncapAir)
Absolutely. I mean, a lot of people, a lot of this is, I mean, it's propagandized. It's either not mentioned at all, or it's twisted or flat out lied about. You know, Biden lies all the time on Twitter saying, oh yeah, we've reduced inflation, but inflation still exists. That devaluation is still happening. The cost of goods is still going up. Just because you've reduced the amount that it's gone up month over month.

doesn't mean that people are still are no longer suffering from it. It's still very real. And to say that, oh, we've reduced inflation again, using the misusing the word. If they were to say we've reduced the devaluation of the dollar from three percent last month to two percent this month, people would be like, what are you talking about? You're continuing to devalue the dollar.

That's a net loss of 5% But they can't they can't say that so they say we've reduced inflation from 3% to 2% and As if that's a that's a win. No, it's not a win. You've still devalued the currency a net 5% and if people understood that my god bodies would have been stacking a long time ago, but

Citizen Web3 
And you haven't even mentioned the beauty of statistics of adding different numbers together. And just like simple stuff, I mean, if you today pay 10 euros for eggs and the next year you pay 20 euros for eggs, the inflation on the price of eggs was a fucking 100%. There is nothing you can do about here. They shouldn't mix up different markets, put them all together. And I mean, the question, there are so many fucking questions where,

Just sometimes when you ask yourself, then like, you know, like you start to wonder, but people don't, and on this topic, actually, on this topic, you know, I did say before, and this is sort of gonna be the last, I think, topic before I'm gonna try and take you slightly another way, really curious about your opinions on some things, but on the topic of like good and bad things, we talked about some bad things happening before, more people.

being afraid on the good for anarchy side, on the wind side. Lately we have Argentina. Now it's an interesting case, isn't it? I mean, I'm a bit even confused myself. I'm like, I'm starting to have feelings I never had before. I'm like, it's like it's a high school crush suddenly. I'm like, whoa, she's cute. I mean, I'm not sure if I'm gonna kiss her. That's disgusting, but like, she looks cute.

Derek Wills (@AncapAir) 
Mm-hmm.

Derek Wills (@AncapAir) 
Hahaha

Derek Wills (@AncapAir) 
I'm out.

Derek Wills (@AncapAir) 
Hahaha

Citizen Web3 
I mean, okay, I understand what all the fuss is about, maybe. No, but seriously, you know, like, like joking aside, what, what do you think about, I mean, he's a good, he's a good fucking whatever he is, he's an amazing fucking performer that guy is, he's had to study to be an actor for, for several years. I don't believe that he never studied to be an actor or played in theater or some mother's shit, whatever, and he's in his young, young hood or whatever, but whatever. He has some good points. He makes.

You know, the first decree of let's fuck away the central bank and, you know, what's your opinion on all those wins for anarchy?

Derek Wills (@AncapAir) 
So, Javier Malé, yeah, Javier Malé is, first of all, I love the guy. I love everything that he says. At a very bare bones minimum, he has gotten the discussions of libertarianism and archo-capitalism, and he has brought it up to the forefront of thought.

Citizen Web3 
and Argentina in particular, sorry.

Derek Wills (@AncapAir)
The hashtag and cap was trending on Twitter after his election. That's never happened before. And people were starting to ask what is anarcho capitalism? That right there is historic. Even if he is a CIA plant or whatever the fuck. W.E.F. you know, plant, which I don't think that he is. But even if he is, he has brought that discussion to the forefront.

That is a win because now we can take this and continue to push that messaging and push it hard. And people can at least who have never heard of anarcho-capitalism before are hearing about it. And maybe the wheels are turning for them. Do I think that Javier Malé is going to abolish the Argentinian state? No, I don't think that he is.

Do I think that he is an anarcho-capitalist? To an extent. Um, I think that economically he is, uh, but there are some social issues that I think that he will continue to regulate. Um, so I would not call him an ANCAP, uh, by, you know, default. Um, do I think that the people of Argentina are going to be far better off when he leaves office than when he took office?

I do believe that they will be. I am cautiously optimistic to see what sorts of things happen in Argentina. And I think that he, if anybody is going to be able to fix some of the issues that they have, I think it's him. Um, and I think that he will overall be a net gain for individual liberty and freedom in Argentina.

I do think that there might be some things that we don't know about him and that there might be some negative things that he might do. But that all remains to be seen. It's fully speculative right now. And I think that time will tell. And I think ultimately he will have a net positive.

Derek Wills (@AncapAir) 
really like the fact that he has brought this type of discussion to the forefront. And, um, I can only hope that messaging continues to grow and resonate because the seed has been planted. It just needs to be watered and cared for. And I think that shows like this, uh, are a great way to do that. And if we can continue to do that and continue to build that, then the tree of Liberty might actually sprout. So that's my take on it.

Citizen Web3 
I like that you did that take because that actually going to allow me to make the bridge perfectly right now. And once again, an analogy that you made that is going here to crypto that I will try and take that conversation as well and see if it goes or not. If not, we can always talk about anarchy. But I want to talk about anarchy in crypto a little bit. But before that, you made a perfect analogy there. Even if he's the CIA, he's the CIA.

And this is the same crypto analogy. A lot of people that they start to say, okay, but what if it is okay. But if it is, it brought some knowledge of how the system works to a lot of people. Some people really started to believe in it, which is more than before. And really, if it brings awareness, maybe that is the beginning of that, you know, big mass, huge, I don't know.

that we need to make those steps towards, to bring awareness, first of all, to the masses, like you say. And I really see that same similarity here. And on that note, I'm going to ask you now a strange thing. What do you think about... Well, the first one is not strange. It's actually quite easy. But what do you think in general about the influence of...

crypto, let's say Web3. I mean, I don't know to what extent you are into the whole scene. I'm assuming that from the way you talk and what you say, you know the basics at least for sure. Apologize for those assumptions. I just don't want to assume anyone knows. I'm not one of those people who like, you know, deep in their industry, like everybody must know about my industry, you know, so like, okay, but...

Derek Wills (@AncapAir)
you

Citizen Web3 
To what extent, I don't know you are in it, but to what extent you think Web3 and its potential development can bring into today's realm of politics, maybe in the governance systems and decentralized verifiable governance systems, maybe in the community pools and the whole, I don't know how we view taxes or community gatherings or is it all a pile

Bullshit, you know, and you know, all this is just a gathering of a couple of whatever kids that believe and want to play in their, you know, plastic toys, you know, so, or digital toys in this case. So yeah, long, long intro for the question, but I'm sure you got it. So.

Derek Wills (@AncapAir) 
Well, I mean, so I'm not too particularly savvy on Web 3. If I'm being completely honest, I've seen the term thrown around a lot. But from what I understand, it's basically like advocating for decentralized decentralization for everything, blockchain and things like that. Right. You know, anything decentralized is always going to be a net benefit.

You know, centralization is nothing more than control. And so if it's decentralized, the control rests on the end user, which is where it should be. So

Derek Wills (@AncapAir)
I'm not quite sure how to answer your question just because I'm not too terribly savvy on Web3 specifically, but I think crypto in and of itself is a stellar way to reclaim the fruits of your labor. Because as long as there's a central bank and there is a centralized authority on monetary

Derek Wills (@AncapAir) 
your wealth is going to be robbed from you off the top. It's going to continue to be stolen from you until the end of time. And if you keep your money in centralized fiats, then you're just asking for your wealth to be stolen from you. So I think that it's a way, it's a great way to reclaim that. And it's also why governments absolutely hate it.

and want to regulate it to death and want to abolish it. And, you know, they claim, I mean, the US government's claiming to kind of be on board with it a little bit by introducing their own cryptocurrency of the US dollar, which is just a godawful way to track every expenditure everybody ever has. That that is something that is a

bastardization of the idea of what cryptocurrency was founded for. Cryptocurrency was founded, Bitcoin was founded to decentralize money and to have real competition in something that has traditionally been a monopoly. And I think that if we can get people to take control over their assets,

by getting it out of decentralized fiat, I think that the world will be a better place. Despite the federal reserves and other central banks his best efforts to absolutely destroy the value of individual wealth. If we can get people to start putting savings into crypto, my God, the world will instantly be a better place despite everything else that's going on. And that's just the beginning. I mean, if you expand upon that

you know, to its logical conclusion of decentralized everything, getting the state out of everybody's business and no longer existing, then it just, that's the exponential growth that we're shooting for. So I hope that answers your question. I'm sorry, I'm not

Citizen Web3 
It's perfect. I was actually going to try and maybe correct it a little bit. Not correct, but adjust a little bit what I was saying. And I'm thinking that the best way to maybe do it is I'm going to tell you why. And I want to know your opinion, but I'm just going to say why I was asking the question to where I was leading and then instead of asking it from the back.

So what I was trying to ask and to understand your opinion as somebody who is not in blockchain, that's important not to have, regardless of how objective we all try to be. We are not, we are fucking humans. So if I'm in blockchain, I'm never going to be objective and you will be a lot more objective than I will be here. And so to me, as to an anarchist, why were blockchains fascinating? Now what I hate is when people start doing majestic.

qualities to blockchains. It's a database. It's a decentralized database that's a verifiable decentralized database. That's it. Here's the story ends. But it's a communication tool. Now we are all social creatures and anarchy and in general politics and consensus our lives dependent on the way we communicate with each other. Now if such a technology as blockchain is an improvement in that communication, it's not a solution, but it's an improvement to remove the trusted...

intermediary, whether it's the bank or the president or the voting ballot counting girl, whatever. This is what I was trying to ask, do you think, this is my opinion, how blockchain can influence potentially and consensus algorithms, how we as a society come to agreement about things in a more open and trustless way without having to trust.

We don't trust each other, right? I mean, if you're a builder and I need a house and I'm like, yo Derek, I really need a house. You're like, yeah man, it's like 200 upfront and 200 later and I give it to a hundred and that's it. I'll never see you again, probably. Or maybe you come tomorrow and I'm feeling all guilty, but this is right. And because of that, we have those trusted parties and if blockchain can remove them, this is what I was trying to get at and to see what your opinion here is, because I'm biased, as I say.

Derek Wills (@AncapAir) 
Yeah, and I can definitely see the value in putting literally everything on decentralized blockchain. The only concern that many might have would be privacy, but I'm sure that there are solutions. There are blockchain solutions for that as well. If you can have a fully decentralized trustworthy source for every transaction that you make, anytime you're posed with

a new business dealing, you can go back and see their credit essentially without like Experian or any of the other credit reporting agencies for businesses and say, yeah, this would be, this is a good transaction. It's like, think of it like buyer review or seller reviews on eBay. It's a great way to go about that. Yeah.

X number of positive transactions and a very few number of negative transactions. And those disputes were resolved, you know, satisfactorily. You know, you could you could definitely verify that. And I think blockchain technology could definitely, definitely do that far better than any other centralized authority ever could.

Citizen Web3 
There is a big belief in one of not big. I like to over exaggerate sometimes, Jesus. Sometimes I look at myself and I think, why did I just say that? It's not like that, but okay. There is a certain, as a side track of anarcho-capitalism, of let's say crypto-anarcho-capitalism, where it talks about the value and reputation and that value and valuation in general can be based on reputation.

Derek Wills (@AncapAir) 
Hehehe

Citizen Web3 
in order to create this perfect reputation. So this is actually what blockchain right now cannot solve. And there is no, there are a lot of propositions but they don't work. People find holes in them and milk it. But like they say that, you know, the blockchain it will find the solution to a perfect, like trustless, verifiable, open, decentralized reputation system that could really create a different form of value as understanding of what, as a value of a product.

because it might be based not in terms of money, because we always think about money, right? About the cost in numbers rather than, but we don't really need them. We need the products. It's the products I want. It's the services I want. It's not the money in between I want. This is just the language. This is just the communication. It's amazing. But yeah, but anyways, and now...

Yeah, so it's a big, what you say is a very major, you're spot on, kind of weight, when went off track, but yeah, you're spot on with pointing that out. I think it's really, really is, is there any, I don't know actually, is there any...

any similar ideas outside of the crypto capitalist, so to say, world of using reputation as a valuation system.

Derek Wills (@AncapAir) 
I mean, I think that in anarcho capitalist society, your personal reputation has value, it has to have value. Even if, excuse me, even if it's just your daily dealings with things, it doesn't have to be something that's, you know, documented. But, you know, having a reputation that has an actual value would be a

approach to what the way we interact with people today. You know, I often you know, and I'm, this is not a popular opinion that I have even in libertarian and anarchist circles. But I think that I think that there is a way to have something that resembles a justice system without violating a guilty person's rights. Let's say somebody is objectively guilty.

at, you know, committing a violent crime against somebody and violating their rights, like, you know, homicide, for instance, you know, I believe that taking that person against their will putting them in a cage for, you know, 2530 years for the rest of their life, whatever it may be, is a violation of their rights. Yes, they, they violated somebody else's rights. And yes, they are a guilty person. But that doesn't mean

that doesn't justify their rights being taken. But what can be done in a way that doesn't violate their rights is once this person has been objectively found to have committed this crime, well now it's a very public thing that this person is a bad person who did this horrible thing. And public ostracism can take care of that. And especially in this digital day and age.

That person would be ostracized from every society, not just the society they lived in. If they trekked a thousand miles to a new city, it wouldn't take long for somebody to find out, hey, this person in this other town, this person committed murder in this other town, so he can get the fuck out. And then again, public ostracism. That's when your reputation really has value. And whenever your reputation has value.

Derek Wills (@AncapAir) 
you are far less inclined to screw people over. You're far less inclined to try and defraud them. You're far less inclined to act out in a way that is antithetical to individual liberty and natural law because of the fact that if you do, your life for all intents and purposes will end. Just not, it may not end because somebody else kills you, but it will end because you can no

You can no longer have business dealings with anybody. If you weren't self-employed, you are not going to find a job anywhere because nobody's going to hire you and you're going to live the rest of your life in exile because you have done this horrible thing and your reputation is now worthless. I know I probably kind of went off on a really weird tangent from what you were expecting, but I hope that answers your question.

Citizen Web3 
No, no, not at all. Not at all. I actually, you'll be surprised. I have even more extreme views on that. I completely agree. I think that this is very problematic that today, whenever somebody commits a crime, whether and I'm going to be even more extreme, I'm going to say even if it's a pedophile, nobody wants to fucking look at the problem. And these crimes keep on happening. Kids keep on suffering, people keep on suffering, families keep on breaking.

People commit suicide over those things. People kill people over those things. Nothing has been solved. Nobody wants to look. Why? Why is it happening? Why did somebody beat somebody up? Why did somebody and this would really like, you know, it's about what you're saying, you know, it's another solution to that, you know, like you can have the reputation and put them, you know, and what I'm saying is let's go even further. Let's try to understand what the fuck is happening instead of starting to punish everybody to the left and the right and taking their rights away. I'm trying to agree here on the fact of

You know, instead of taking rights away, let's first try and solve something rather than straight away, get the gun out and start to shoot to the left and to the right. And then to count. Oh, OK. Well, you know, maybe I shouldn't have shot really first. You know, maybe nobody was going to shoot, you know. But yeah, it's a fear. It's a strange, strange topic that I think. Yeah. And there is no right or wrong answer. I have kind of like a very simple.

Derek Wills (@AncapAir) 
Hehehe

Citizen Web3 
Last question for you before I want to ask you like the quick blitz. And, and it's a simple question, but, um, I dunno, I had the last question, but already asked it already at the beginning. Uh, but this one I thought is going to be also a good one. And, um, what is Liberty and why is it important? This is the question.

Derek Wills (@AncapAir) 
That is a great question. And it is, you know, the very first question that I answer in my book, because I have to. You know, it is, it is essential knowledge that everybody needs to know. Liberty is the right of the individual to invoke soul dominion over their own life to act as they see fit.

Provided the act in and of itself does not violate the rights of another individual to do the same that is Liberty that is what it looks like and On its face. It seems like it's a beautiful answer But it inherently means that people will act in a manner that you find distasteful they will act in a manner that you find grotesque deplorable or

outright morally bankrupt. but as long as they don't bring harm to another individual or inhibit their right of living their life as they see fit, then they are perfectly within their rights to do that and you know that is what makes that important is that if you do not recognize that is Liberty's definition

and it only means that which will you agree with, then it means that everybody who doesn't agree with you should be your slave. And this is why statism exists, is because people have different ideas of what liberty should look like, and they think that it should look like the things that they agree with, and that's why they invoke these centralized monopolies on violence.

to ensure and coerce others that they disagree with. This is why voting has no actual remedy to any problem. This is why the state is always going to be antithetical to liberty, no matter how small, no matter how limited, or no matter what form or function it creates. If you have a centralized state, it is going to usurp this definition.

Derek Wills (@AncapAir) 
It is going to necessarily create a relationship of master and slave between the state and the individual. And they will, by default, have more of a say over the life, the body, and the property of an individual than the individual himself does. And again, that is the definition of slavery. So why is liberty important? Because without it, we're all just slaves. And there is no greater evil in this world.

Citizen Web3 
I don't know what to add to that, but apart from if you're still doubting it and you're listening to this, well, ask yourself why you have a number since your birth and you have to show that number everywhere. Things haven't changed much. I mean, some politicians, we still build castles, we still build big palaces. We even give immunity now to some of these people, which is absolutely fantastically fascinating.

to me, you know, it really is a matter of, I don't even know what to say here. But okay, that is not for me to go on, because I will start asking more. But okay, so I'm going to do like a small blitz. And yeah, before I do it, just thank you again for all those opinions, because just to say maybe one last time, I kind of already said that,

Maybe I didn't emphasize it enough. And I hope this is more like for people who are listening to us, you know, lately, like, and a lot you see, like this alternative industry that has been built with blockchain WebTree. And lately, like, especially last two, three years, I've started seeing more and more and more and more people going completely like creating, using that.

as perfect to create essentially the direction of a perfect surveillance tool. And I'm hoping if you're listening to this and you're listening to what Derek is saying, and if you connect with at least part of it, you know, and or at least, or if you're interested in wanting to know more, go read the book, you know, start there. It's easy, simple, you know, and maybe that will help you to remember values guys.

And I think that's very important. So yeah, sorry about that little off top. It's a topic that is very dear to the heart. And it's just annoying when, you know, you waste 10 years of your life, not waste, but you spent, you know, 10 on something. And then you start seeing the same bullshit just happening again. And this is why I really want to bring more people like you to, even though it's a talk podcast about people in technology and about technology. And we talk a lot about like completely different things. Usually.

Derek Wills (@AncapAir) 
Hehehehe

Citizen Web3 
We talk about privacy as well. We talk about rights as well, but not to that extent, not like that. We never had somebody on come on and talk about it like you just have. And I just want to thank you for that. So yeah, thank you again. So.

Derek Wills (@AncapAir) 
Well, thank you for having me, man. Really, this has been wonderful. It's been a great conversation, and I really have loved every second of it. So let's get on with this Blitz, man. Excited.

Citizen Web3 
Thanks, thanks. I even changed, I even in the middle, I even changed it for you because I thought it's stupid to ask you one of the questions anyways, and you don't have to answer like one word answers. This is like a blitz in quotations. Give me please a book, a book that right now resonates with you lately, it could be a movie, actually book, a book or a movie that you would suggest, of course.

Derek Wills (@AncapAir) 
a book or a movie that resonates with me. I've been reading the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy series. And I absolutely love it. I'm currently on So Long and Thanks for All the Fish. So, you know, it's I think it's seven books long the series is. I love it. It's so wonderfully written and so just, I just, I really do love it. And I, it's fun. And

It's just, it's just makes it puts me in a good mood. So, uh, Douglas Adams is a stellar author and a big fan.

Citizen Web3 
love that book. And yeah, absolutely fascinating. Second one. Well, it was supposed to be the second one is usually give me a project you like from the blockchain world, but I changed it while we're talking. Can you give me an economist that fascinates you? And this is an interesting question, I guess, for you, but doesn't could be Austrian economist could be a could be not could be maybe it's John Law, I don't know. But, but give me economist. Sorry.

Derek Wills (@AncapAir)
Yeah. So an economist that economists that fascinates me. God, there are so many and for so many different reasons. I mean, I could say somebody like Karl Marx is interesting. Economist definitely not. Is he interesting for good reasons? Definitely not. But

Citizen Web3
interests you.

hahahaha

Citizen Web3 
Why can I ask personally?

Derek Wills (@AncapAir) 
Well, Murray Rothbard changed my life by with his books, For a New Liberty and the Ethics of Liberty, Anatomy of the State, What Has Government Done With Our Money? He was mentored by Ludwig von Mises and he just kind of expounded on the ideas of Austrian economics to a level that is just perfect.

You know, we talked about perfection earlier. I think that if there was perfection ever written, it would be Murray Rothbard, to be completely honest.

Citizen Web3 
Once again, just to remind all the listeners, you can find all the links that we are mentioning, whether it's books or show notes or whatever. Sorry, movies in the show notes, sorry. Okay, three more. Give me, when I say technology, I mean like AI, blockchain, I don't know, robotics. One direction of technology, considering we are more focused on the technological side of things, that you find...

You think you're lucky that you live during its development or you're curious to see how it will develop in the future.

Derek Wills (@AncapAir)
I'm going to say, I'm actually going to say Linux, because I think that more and more people are beginning to see the evils of centralized spying and how companies like Microsoft and Apple assist in that. And so I think more and more people are finally waking up and seeing the value of open source software.

particularly met, you know, in their operating system. And I think that more and more people should be waking up to the ideas that using like an Ubuntu or even like Linux Mint is there is a huge value in that. And honestly, I don't care what distribution people are using, if they're using a Linux operating system, they've already they're already winning. So that's what I would say. I know it's I know Linux isn't anything new.

But it is, that is something that I think more people should focus on is decentralizing their lives by using open source as often as they can.

Citizen Web3 
Amen. No centralized things intended. The last two are slightly different. The first one is, give me one motivational thing that helps Derek wake up every morning, write books about liberty, create memes about anarchy and carry this message to the masses. Something that you would

Derek Wills (@AncapAir) 
Hehehe

Citizen Web3 
you know, maybe suggest to other people to also try to do or think about, I don't know, whatever the thing is.

Derek Wills (@AncapAir) 
Um, I try very hard to remove stressors from my life. And if you really think about it, the state is one of the biggest stressors that people have in their lives. And, you know, I stopped watching mainstream propaganda news. I and if I'm being real, that means all news, all news sources.

Unless it's coming from somebody that I trust like Glenn Greenwald or Ed Snowden, I'm not really paying too terribly much attention to it. If anything, I see a headline like, okay, what are they trying to distract us from? So what motivates me is that I have been able to reduce a significant amount of stress in my life by no longer caring about the state's existence in my life.

and hoping to remove that in its entirety from not only my life, but the life of everybody else's. Just turning off the propaganda has been such a net benefit for me, that if I could fully shut it out of my life, I know that my life would be better, I know that your life would be better, and that's what that's what wakes me up.

Citizen Web3 
Man, I want to say I mean again. And it's true, right? I mean, people really underestimate to what extent that it's worse than mosquitoes, man. There's only one thing worse than mosquitoes. And the last one is going to be a weird one for an anarcho-capitalist. And now give me and wait, it's a bit of a like not... Anyways, dead or alive, real human book character, movie character.

Derek Wills (@AncapAir) 
Hehehe

Derek Wills (@AncapAir) 
Hehehe

Citizen Web3 
writer, I don't know, whatever, a person or a person or a writer, like I said, or a singer. And it's a weird one for an anarcho-capitalist that has had and maybe even still until today has inspiration on you.

Citizen Web3 
and to what you do.

Derek Wills (@AncapAir) 
Again, I got to go with Murray Rothbard on that. But I mean, there are fantastic other authors out there, Alexander Spooner, Walter Block, who Walter Block wrote the foreword to my book, and he is somebody that should also be read and understood. Even Thomas Sowell is wonderful from an economic standpoint.

Citizen Web3 
Okay.

Derek Wills (@AncapAir) 
Yeah, I mean, there's just so many good, I mean, even in today's age, you know, you got like Jack Lloyd, who's bringing anarcho capitalism via graphic novels and short pamphlet style books. He does a wonderful job in that as well. So I mean, I just have nothing but respect for everybody that, you know, came before me with these philosophies and is working with me.

in spreading these messages. So to pick one, I don't know if I could, but if I did have to, it'd probably be Roth.

Citizen Web3 
Thanks. It was a good answers, man. I liked it. And it's also good because like I said, you know, it's a very different conversation from a lot of the ones we have. And it gives a lot of new directions in my opinion, for people who want to explore apart from the typical, not the typical, not that the other people say typical things, but it's different direction of even if it's going in the same way, so the things you say are a lot more, I would say.

higher level in terms of like, this is more about values. This is more about understanding really how to grow our society rather than to fix something particular here and there, how to change the economy, how there's different perspective, how it works. And yeah, thank you again for all those answers, man. And yeah, I just one thing, if you want to add anything before we finish, I know you're writing a second book as well, right? I think, or you already wrote it.

Derek Wills (@AncapAir) 
I am currently writing my second book. This one is actually fiction. So I mean, if I'm being completely honest, a book my first book, well, I'm incredibly proud of it. It's a philosophical treatise that and that is not exactly a sexy genre that people like, you know, just being real. It doesn't resonate with a lot of people. It takes a special type of person to

to read a synopsis on a book like that and be like, yeah, this sounds like something I would want to read. But so I'm writing a book of fiction, I'm kind of taking an Ayn Rand approach to my philosophy for this go around. It's about a town in New Hampshire that decided to secede from the United States and establish itself as an anarcho capitalist society, and how the United States decides to respond to that. So

It's, I'm excited about it. I still have a long way to go on it, but it's turning into a really good story and I'm really enjoying writing this. And I think that using fiction mediums, and I brought up Jack Lloyd, he's been doing this forever. I think he's onto something with helping it resonate with people. So I'm taking kind of that approach as well. So.

I'm excited about it. Well, I don't have a release date yet. I'm still, I'm still writing. So, but yeah, that's, that's in the works. It's coming.

Citizen Web3 
We can, we can leave it on a cliffhanger. It's even better. Derek, thank you again for your time and everybody who joined us today. Thank you very much again, Derek. Please don't hang up yet. And thanks everyone. Bye. See you next time. So let me just stop.

Outro:
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