[01:00:00:00 - 01:00:10:13]
 The left calls it reproductive health care. Marjorie Danenfelser calls it murder. And she's fighting to make sure Washington can't look away from the Mifapristone crisis reshaping abortion in America.

[01:00:12:14 - 01:00:57:05]
 I'm Hayden Ludwig. Abortion numbers were supposed to be going down under our most pro-life president. Instead, they're surging, and a tiny pill available by mail is why. Mifapristone, the chemical in the abortion pill, has made big abortions stronger than ever with the ability to reach any home in any state, even where abortion is illegal. Yet, incredibly, the industry has never been more vulnerable to decisive action from the White House. Action that, unfortunately, has been denied. But why? Why put politics above babies' lives? My guest today is here with the answers. Marjorie Danenfelser is president of Susan B. Anthony Pro-Life America, and she joins us to discuss the right to life under assault in our country. Well, Marjorie Danenfelser, thank you for joining the show.

[01:00:58:08 - 01:01:59:09]
 What a delight. I love, this is my inaugural appearance on your show. I'm really excited about it. As am I. I hope I do well. Oh, of course I will at the end. Well, I want to begin with your incredible state of the unborn. This is an address you gave shortly before President Trump's state of the union in late February. And in that, you pointed out that despite all of the pro-life movement's many victories, victories you, of course, are part of with SBA Pro-Life, abortion is the number one cause of death in our country. I don't think people realize that. But right now, abortion is rising, even though we possess the means to virtually defeat the entire industry. What shocks me, and I think our viewers should be shocked too, is that some Republicans in Washington say, "No, now is the time to be flexible on infanticide." Even as abortion is rising and we have the ability to defeat the left. So, Marjorie, I just see this disconnect between the movement and pro-life politicians. How do you see it?

[01:02:00:17 - 01:02:07:17]
 Well, I think the reality is, and since January, there have been a lot of chapters in this back and forth.

[01:02:08:21 - 01:04:15:21]
 The big problem is this idea that somehow this is a state's only proposition. That each state should meet out its own law, and of course it should, but it's solely back to the states. That is the biggest misnomer. It is a huge misunderstanding of where we stand post-dobs and what the Constitution and the Declaration, our founding documents say. This is a national issue. And if you've decided, as this administration has very sadly, that this is not something the administration, the presidency, the federal government has any say in, then we're in real trouble. And yes, we've seen, yes, we are in real trouble because what happened is that the administration has not only failed to change the regulations that Biden set up under COVID to dispense with in-person dispensing of the drug, but also approved a generic version of the abortion drug. And therefore, the flood of those drugs into all states, including strongly pro-life states, has resulted in the abortion rate going way up. So what many people are shocked to hear is that the abortion rate is higher now than it was on the day that Roe vs. Wade was overturned. And it's because of these abortion drugs. And so now we fast forward, we've called for the firing of McCarry, who's the head of the FDA for doing nothing. We found out as of just recently in a Wall Street Journal article that McCarry says, you know, he doesn't even think about this. This is not something he's focused on. It is not an issue for him, not on the table for him. And all his claims, which he has, told to House and Senate leadership that he has got this under control and he's studying the problem, well, that's not even happening. None of it is happening. And there never wasn't even a chance that it was going to happen. And it's for political reasons.

[01:04:17:00 - 01:04:37:18]
 That is the big issue facing us, this states-only political decision, so that federal officeholders don't have to deal with it. And then the escalation of abortion because of the lack of regulation of the abortion drug, or just the limit of the abortion drug, which is what we should be doing.

[01:04:38:20 - 01:05:47:27]
 Well, of course, studying is beltway speak for doing nothing at all. I mean, we all know this. Let's create a commission. We're going to study it. Exactly. Exactly. Well, you know, and of course, President Trump, who really has been our most pro-life president, I mean, the Dobbs decision in 2022 was an incredible overturning Roe v. Wade. And he very famously said, "I'm returning," through the Supreme Court, "I'm returning the right to decide abortion laws to the states." Well, I'm glad that we can now have more pro-life laws passed in places like Florida, Texas, Louisiana, you know, the conservative states. But what you're pointing out is true, and we see this going through the Supreme Court right now. It's not only a state's issue, as you just said. There's national implications. So let's talk about this case going on right now that involves a young woman named Rosalie Markosich, and it centers on the FDA's decision that you mentioned under the Biden administration to allow people to buy the abortion pill through the mail. So you don't have to just go in person to a pharmacy or a doctor to get a dispense to you. You can now go online and buy potentially huge quantities of these pills delivered through the postal system to your door.

[01:05:48:28 - 01:07:35:24]
 That was done during COVID. That's now being battled in the Supreme Court. So give us a sense of if we won that legal battle, what would happen to the ability of big abortion to mail abortion pills to our houses? Well, if we win that legal battle, there has to be an in-person doctor's visit so that you have a sonogram. You know, if you have an ectopic pregnancy, you know, if you have preexisting conditions that might end up being a cesarean, you know the gestation of the baby. You can't know specifically, or you might not care if you're desperate. What at what point your baby's life is on the timeline. So you would you would actually be under a doctor's care and you would at a very minimum, even if we didn't save all these lives, which we must, you would know where your own health care stands, which it used to be the mantra of the abortion advocacy movement. That it's between it's about health care. It's about your relationship with you and your doctor. And it's about your body and your health. Well, that has gone by the wayside post-dobs because the only things that matters in the mind of the abortion advocate is that you get the pill induced abortion that you so that you quote deserve. And why? Because that is the only pathway to freedom if you're facing unexpected pregnancy. It says everything about what they believe about women's innate ability to solve problems, to affirm life, to not see other people as obstacles in their life. It's a vast underestimation of who women are, but they their their words, their PR campaigns are over the last 50 years are now all getting unmasked.

[01:07:36:25 - 01:07:58:24]
 It's only about getting the abortion. We don't care about the woman in this case. We don't care about the woman, the case in Ohio, where the woman's boyfriend or kind of a strange boyfriend who was a medical resident got the pills himself and stuffed him down her throat when she was sleeping and, of course, lost the baby that she wanted and put, of course, her under incredible.

[01:07:59:24 - 01:08:17:23]
 She had to go to the R herself and no. And the the crazy nature of this thing is that the abortion movement is very happy with the idea that the president, unfortunately, seems to be OK with or at least McCary, the head of the FDA is OK with that.

[01:08:18:24 - 01:17:53:28]
 You don't have to report anything to the FDA. Nothing has to be reported. It doesn't matter if you're hemorrhaging sepsis, you you come close to death. The only thing that has to be reported to the FDA is death itself. Everything else you might have lost your fertility for the rest of your life. You may never be able to have a baby again because what happened in this abortion drug scenario, the horrible psychological consequences that occur when you deliver in your bathroom and you're holding a patient. You're holding a baby and you're thinking, do I flush it or do I what do I do? And you didn't expect this. Only thing that matters to the abortion movement and unfortunately is being put up with by the by the FDA is that the woman got the drug and that she has the abortion. So it's a it's a crisis that I'll say I like to think that I'm I can foresee and I've got wisdom about what might happen in the future. We did not see that this would happen under a Trump administration. Yes. And it's the moment to fix it. Well, and obviously we know why it's all about politics. We have the November 2026 midterm elections coming up and people still believe the Democrat talking points that they don't themselves believe, by the way, that women will all turn out and vote against you and vote you out of office if you if you take swift action and actually act consistently pro life. But you know, it raises the point of we're going to get over the November 2026 hurdle and no matter what win or lose on the right, there's going to be another election two years after that. There will never be a scenario where there's not an election, at least, you know, one to two years out from you. So what point do we actually take action? I guess part of the question here is, do you do you see Marjorie that there's this rift we're seeing exposed between people who are genuinely authentically pro life and those who are merely anti abortion? Because I see a huge divide growing in the movement. I think, yes, there's a divide and it's a political versus true believer divide. And it was inevitable when when Dobbs came down and Roe versus Wade was overturned that there's going to be some political fear. But what do you do with that? You get smart is what you do. And what you do is you go for what most people believe. And then you also have the courage to speak and you don't try to pretend like it's not happening. When we stand still and do nothing, the other side is accelerating. And who wins in that scenario? It's the other side accelerating. And I'm sorry to say that is what is happening right now. We stand to lose everything because the team that is elected in twenty six, that house and senate, and then in twenty eight, the presidency will determine the whole future for generations, maybe forever of what our law is and whether it matters that the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence both have things to say about the If you have a right to run being able to accept it, do what you want too. And then people call it the fuels, what you want into politics. But even down in merry with me and which signals I don't speak to. future for generations, maybe forever, of what our law is, and whether it matters that the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence both have things to say about the inalienable right to life, about a responsibility to enact equal protection under the law. Is that real, or is that just doesn't apply to the tiniest children that are coming into the world? So it is a moment of great, needing of great and brave advocates on our side. And I just want to add that the ones that are really out there doing a beautiful job are in the House and the Senate, the leadership in the House and the Senate, Mike Johnson, Senator Thune. We had a whole stage of them at our gala recently, of people who are locked arms with us saying, no, this is a national level issue. Yes, every state needs to have their laws enacted. We need to protect their laws. And then we on the national level need to define what it is, who are we as a nation? It does geography, determine whether you have human rights or not. Or is it something innate, something inalienable? Before we continue, you should know about Independence Magazine. It's where we take the ideas we cover here and go deeper, reporting, commentary and analysis you won't find anywhere else. And you can read the latest issue right now free at restoration dash news.com and sign up to get future issues of Independence Magazine delivered. Now back to the show. Well said. Yeah, it's shocking to consider going back to the Supreme Court battle that's ongoing as we record this right now. You wouldn't need the Supreme Court to weigh in on whether the FDA can permit women to buy these drugs through the mail. The Trump administration controls the FDA. That's not an act of Congress to tell them to change the law to go back to the way it was in the very first Trump administration. So if we get what we pray we get, it's the Supreme Court weighing in on something that the president already has the power to do and the mandate to do from his 2024 blowout election. I mean, I hate to say, but that is a very shameful thing. You know, when for a president who's very concerned about honoring God and where he will go after death, whether he will go to heaven and speaks all the time about I'd love to see there be more American babies. Sir, you have the ability to do this right now. You can absolutely do this. And nobody will be more excited to go vote than pro-life evangelicals. Hayden, I wish I hadn't interrupted that last part because that is a clip that we're going to send everywhere. What you just said is exactly the case. And look, we all have our moments in life where we step up and be the most courageous that you can. And that is exactly what President Trump did when he was first getting elected. And without him, we would not have this huge open door to save all these children. But what the unfortunate situation right now is that those doors are being slammed shut. And that can't be. This great opportunity can't be buried after 50 years of trying to get to a place where we could protect those children. And I agree with you, no greater group in the world, evangelicals, Catholics, people who believe just that this makes intellectual sense. It's just reasonable that this is a human rights issue that favors the life of a small child. And it has the ability to end the aspirations of people who we agree with who are running for office when there isn't that leadership at the top. I think the intensity is the problem in a midterm election, especially when there's a 100% Republican Congress or Republican president, and we're trying to re-elect, we're trying to re-establish and protect majorities in House and the Senate. We don't have Trump at the top of the ticket. And in fact, right now, for our base, it's an unfortunate drag. Because of the issue we're talking about, but it can be fixed. And I want to talk about the base too, kind of where does the pro-life movement go in the wake of dobs? So you mentioned in your State of the Unborn, some statistics I'd never heard, we know abortion is on the increase once more in the wake of Roe v. Wade being overturned, unfortunately, but support for unlimited abortion on demand is down 19 percentage points. That is stunning. One in five people has changed their mind on that. The other one is that young people are more likely than ever to say that they're pro-life. So again, that rift between what's going on, the priorities in the Beltway, and everyday Americans, young and old and in between, that is a gigantic divide there. So do you see a lot of opportunity with that? And how do we capitalize on it, not only to win elections, but also to continue that momentum against the abortion industry? Gallup never has numbers like that. And those are, Gallup and Pew, they're tracking all these things. And what you said is real. That is the trajectory. And what we can do is do what you're doing. Podcasts like your leadership in the podcast world is continuing to communicate the actual decisions that are being made on the state and national level when the decision on the abortion topic, on the abortion tragedy really matters. So for years, it was a theoretical topic. It was just, what do you think? We should have this. But Roe v. Wade was always the backstop. You could pass a limit at this modest 20 weeks, but it couldn't go into effect because Roe v. Wade established abortion now for all nine months. Now, those arguments, those conversations that real people are having every day, and nobody has them with more intensity than young people, they're saying it matters what we decide here. I can't be just cavalier. I'm going to have to think. And then also to Trump's, President Trump's credit, and to you and other people who are increasing the level of debate and conversation to the, yes, Charlie Kirk, but then also all of the people who are calling back young people to think before they establish their opinions and then vote, that is a huge wave that not everybody is seeing. And they, the increasing numbers of people going, young people going back to church.

[01:17:55:06 - 01:18:19:11]
 It's just something that only God could author. And we, of course, want to do all we can to fan those flames. But I think we, I see such incredible hope because I used to be so pro abortion and nobody ever gave up on me. I thought I was a smart person in every room. And it turned out it was the least smart person because I wasn't willing to look at what was true.

[01:18:21:01 - 01:18:49:08]
 And so I think we, you know, this, the situation with the president right now is most grievous. And I mean that it's a grief. Like we want him to step up and we believe he can. Maybe post midterms, maybe he will, especially with all that you've been talking about, about the court right now. That is, that is a prayer. And I think that midterms will be greatly benefited when that happens. I didn't know that about you. If you don't mind telling us that story, I'd love to hear it about how you changed your mind. What triggered that?

[01:18:50:13 - 01:19:55:21]
 Well, it was people like you and people watching this podcast. I was really in God's grace. And I was at Duke and I was a co-chair of College Republicans and there was a pro-choice and a pro-life co-chair. That's not how they handle the issue. Like, let's just go for both. Right. And being that person, because I was an advocate, I mean, I was advocate within Republicans for being what I call pro-choice. And it just totally, God totally set me up. And people like you and people watching here were smart, didn't judge me, just engaged me in it. And I was a philosophy major, so you're supposed to have logical arguments. And all I had was my body, my choice. That's usually what it amounts to. I found two. They're like, "Oh, me? You don't get to say anything." It's not about the actual argument. It's about me as a decision maker trumps everything. Trumps every bit of truth. It's just I get to define me and everything. So, and then my, I always had faith, but it was

[01:19:56:25 - 01:25:26:03]
 probably the gateway for, and I find this in other people too, the pro-life position becomes a gateway for all sorts of other good things that happen in their lives. And it happened to me. It just was totally unexpected. I didn't merit it. It was just God's grace to send those people and his own grace into my life. And then when my mind changed, I was very political. So I thought, okay, something huge is missing at the heart of the pro-life movement. And it was smart strategy. How do you win a life? Like, if our goal is to overturn Roe, let's back it up. What are the steps? And then, and like you, like you inspire, you want to inspire the people that you elect to be all they can be. And if they don't, you collect scalps. Yeah. I love that. I could not agree more. I found working in and out of pro-life circles for about a decade, just writing articles in this and trying to change the headlines, you have the most heartfelt support and genuine belief in all the conservative movement is found in the pro-life space. But there's a severe lack of the ability to think long-term and strategically, you know, and because you can do both. It doesn't make you cynical to see around the corner there and predict what the enemy is going to do next. And what amazes me, you know, you've kind of mentioned this already, but this, we have the opportunity now to basically deliver a lethal blow to the abortion industry. When you look at how dependent they are, big abortion is, Planned Parenthood is on the abortion pill, the ability to mail it out. Financially, if you took that away from them, you virtually decimated their entire modern business model. They don't do the in-person stuff like they used to 20 years ago. That wasn't necessarily something pro-life movement planned for it fell in our lap. So to be able to take advantage of that, to have the courage and the wildliness, the craftiness to use that, we need more leadership like yourself, you know, telling people what to do. And I think President Trump has that capability as the craftiest man I've ever met and I ever heard in, I mean, in the best possible way. We need that kind of clever, almost ruthless, but principled way of approaching politics. Yeah, exactly. The backbone by God's grace that you develop when you actually see somebody dying and you think just one person dying and you think, what would I do to save that person's life? But then you see a whole class of citizens suffering under a bias that leads to their death or their misery. And you think this is a human rights issue. This transcends all the other, except for faith, it transcends all, you know, many of the issues that were debating. I mean, I'm all about capital gains tax reduction. I'm all about, you know, estate tax fairness. I'm all about all sorts of things and tax deductions for office equipment, but nothing comes close to protecting the one right that leads to every single other. And as you said in the beginning of this, Hayden, is that it's the number one cause of death in the nation. The reason that we don't feel, the reason when I was very pro-abortion that I couldn't see it or feel it is I didn't want to see it or feel it. You can't see that death unless you look, unless you're seeking it out. And they can't speak. So others like you and me, we are trying to speak out for them. I think this abortion drug issue is actually something, as you mentioned, is going to have backlash because the women who are experiencing this trauma of turning their bathroom into an abortion clinic, and then they have to live there every day after having gone through something no one prepared them for. No one told them, you're going to be bleeding out all day, like in all these terrible stories. No one tells you, you're actually going to give birth and hold this baby in your hand. And then what do you do? They never saw what it looked like. Nobody told them. So I hate it that we would have to learn something in this horrible way, but we have other human rights journeys that we've learned the humanity of that person that is suffering. And that's what it took, sadly. Well, it sure seems like God leads us to the precipice and puts our head over and says, "That's where you should go," and then pulls us back. I mean, you can see this in American history time and time again. And I guess you had raised the point earlier about young people returning to church in huge numbers. I mean, that is the most astonishing story I don't think anybody saw coming in the last few years. So as we close out here, Marjorie, what are your predictions over the next couple of years? Whether we win the Supreme Court battle or not, how do we get young people back into the pews? Not only that, but how do we get the church to be more involved? Because what I sense right now is the pro-life movement, their heart is in the right place. They may not be aware the battle is actually at its most intense point right now. It's more fraught than it's ever been before. Winning Roe v. Wade was more like the Normandy landings on D-Day than taking Berlin. So how do we finish that fight out? Well, I think as you alluded, it's primarily a spiritual battle, but unless that leads you to action, it's like Frederick Douglass said, he said, "I marched for years, I advocated for years, but I never saw any progress until I prayed on my feet."

[01:25:27:03 - 01:26:57:09]
 So I think it's that. I think it is, in the next handful of years, from here until, frankly, I date it at when we get our next presidential nominee on the Republican side, because it's the only place you're going to find a pro-life president. In that handful of years, we'll determine whether we as a nation affirm the humanity of the unborn child, or we decide this is just one more like an appendectomy, that we should never have thought about it. Of course, history will judge us differently if that's the case, and eternity will be judged differently. But it will determine in that handful of years, and I think that no matter whether you sit, whether you're in a pew and not active, if you've not gotten on your knees yet, that a national leader, now I'm not going to put it all on this, because they're not running for, not running for pope, they're not running for head of an evangelical ministry, but a presidential candidate who's got the whole package and understands the founding of our nation, and understands the moral principles and the godly principles that we were founded on, and understands what it means for one child to die, and can communicate that, I think has a riveting effect on people like you and me. People like me who thought when I changed my position, I didn't think I was making a spiritual decision. I just thought I was smart enough to get it. I'm so smart. Of course, I finally got it. But I do think,

[01:26:58:22 - 01:27:45:04]
 think of all what Lincoln did, what Reagan did, what Winston Churchill did, people found themselves on their knees after they got active. Yes. Well said. Well said. Well, that's what we have to pray for. Marjorie Danafelser, thank you so much for joining us today. What a pleasure. I really enjoyed it. Thank you. Thanks for tuning into Restoration Spotlight. For more conversations like this, hit subscribe, leave a comment, and stay with us. For daily America First reporting and deeper analysis you won't find anywhere else, visit restoration-news.com. That's restoration-news.com. This mission moves forward because people like you stand behind it. So stand with us at the link below. I'm Hayden Ludwig, and we'll see you next time on The Spotlight.