Sean Tibor: Hello, and welcome to teaching Python. This is episode 125. My name is Sean Tibor. I'm a coder who teaches. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: And my name is Kelly Schuster-Paredes, and I'm a teacher that coats. Sean Tibor: Today we're talking about micro learning, which is something that Kelly and I have a lot of passion for because we think in terms of what can I learn, when can I learn it? What do I need to get to the next stage? So I love this topic because it's something that formalizes a lot of the behaviors and thoughts and philosophy that we've tried to encompass over the last five years of teaching together. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: 100%. And, you know, I love cognitive science and educational strategies and about just talking about learning, and it's something that, it actually highlights a lot of the things that we've already talked about, and it encompasses everything, and it's just a great way to learn. And with the TikTok error and the micro learning fits right in. Sean Tibor: Yeah, it's a really great place to start. I think in order to frame micro learning, we have to talk about macro learning, right? Like the traditional big chunks of learning. And what we've seen over the past 150 years or so is this development and evolution, at least in the United States. But I think globally, a lot of countries experience the same things, which is that education has always been very big, right? That you have a primary degree, you have a secondary degree, you have post secondary education. All of these things come together, and different countries around the world structure it in different ways. But generally it's been, you have everything that you learn in primary school, right, and your k through twelve education, that's one big chunk of learning. The second big chunk of learning is a bachelor's degree. And we have like associate's degrees, which we'll get to in a moment because I think it's part of the trend. But like a bachelor's degree, four years of learning, sometimes five, six, seven, depending on how things are going. But four years of learning, right, then a master's degree or a doctorate degree. And each of these are really big meaty chunks of learning that represent a lot of comprehensive coursework, sometimes a thesis, sometimes a project, other really big pieces that all go together. And when you go to someone to say, what education do you have? You can say, I have a bachelor's in this or I have my master's in this. And that traditionally has been macro learning is these big years, long experiences of learning. That when you roll them all together, Sean, something very substantial, or at least that's what they're supposed to indicate, yeah, 100%. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: And then I don't even know what it's called. But there's also the mini macros that happen within the institutions, right? The larger chunks of units or something, for example, chemistry or physics. It's a macro unit within a macro unit. Extended time learning, a large chunk of information. And sometimes the assessments are long six week units or five week units. It's a lot of time that goes by before there's a validation of learning. So you say those macro learning opportunities. Yeah. Sean Tibor: And I think generally the mindset for people planning these courses, these degree programs, this large scale journey that they want a student to go on, it's largely thought of as what do we want every student to know when they matriculate from this program? What's the pieces they need to have? So you see general education requirements, you see majors, you see minors, you see bundles of courses that come together that are intended to be complementary so that students get to a place where when they leave, there's an assumed baseline of here's what every student with this degree knows or knows how to do. In the best cases, that's exactly what it delivers. You get a really comprehensive education in that bundle of learning that happens. So as we talk about micro learning, I do not want to dig on any of that. Right. This is something that has been around for a long time, because a lot of things about this really work and really work well. And so as we talk about micro learning, this is not an either or. We are trying to complement what happens in that traditional education model or the baseline of what education has been for so long, because there are other ways to do this and other ways to complement that learning, especially once you achieve that, it's not like you stop learning for the rest of your life, 100%. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: And also highlight the fact that we're going to take this from two perspectives, as we always do, from the professional level of micro learning and also for the educational k twelve or even college understanding of micro learning and how you can apply it in the situation. So it's interesting to take that look because, which is interesting for Sean is as the more we were researching or I was researching, micro learning is huge in the workspace. And it actually started, I think, I don't know exactly where some cognitive science will have to tell me, scientists will have to tell me that. But it started to take shape in the workplace in order to enhance professional development. So it's interesting and let's dive in. I could talk. Sean Tibor: Yeah. The other thing to bookend this so we're not going to talk about traditional degree programs right from here on out. We're also not going to talk about just in time learning that you do that's like, oh, I need to learn how to do this one thing. So I'm going to go google it and look on static overflow and teach myself how to do it. That very informal learning process that we all do constantly, we're not talking about that end. It's this middle area that's really interesting that has some structure to it. There's an actual process and a methodology for micro learning that is distinct and different from either example that we just gave. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: Yeah. And lastly, another caveat. It's also almost a pedagogy in the way that for me, how I run most of my courses, especially my 6th grade computer science course, is based mostly on a micro learning method because these are the foundations for the 6th graders. And again, we do this 7th and eigth grade, but highlight most of the micro learning process for the 6th grade computer science classes because it just fits well for them and their little brains and their short term, they're big brains with their short term ability to memorize and learn. Sean Tibor: Nice. All right, lead us in then. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: All right. What do we want to do at end? Just first and foremost, this micro learning is this approach to learning and breaking down topics into short form. Trying to find my do not disturb. Sorry, guys. In short form topics, it can be standalone units. For example, in the workplace, it could be standalone units where they would learn a degree, a micro learning degree. But it's something that you can view as many times as necessary whenever, wherever in order to understand a topic. Would you say that's good for you? Sean Tibor: Yeah, I'm good with that. I like that definition. It fits with a lot of things that we've been looking at within our team about learning and how we structure that for each individual person. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: Yeah. And it's centered on absorbing knowledge in small segments. Sometimes it can be standalone parts. Right. But it's something that is done repeatedly, so we have to highlight it. It's done repeatedly so that actually learning is done. Right. And for me, I think it's really good for complex topics like computer science or foreign languages or even going into deep physics or engineering, something where you have to really break apart. A lot of things our brain can absorb or we traditionally teach in longer segments. So say we teach in a 90 minutes class or a nine week course or a year. Our brain is still wired to chunk things and to learn things in smaller bets. So even though we might not specifically be doing micro learning or micro teaching, I should say our brain is still micro learning regardless of the length of time. So this is just enhancing what our brain already does and being more focused and explicit. Sean Tibor: And I think it fits really well with the programmer brain. Right. And the coding mentality, because it tends to be highly iterative. Right. There is a process of what do I want to learn? How am I going to learn it now? I'm going to learn it now. I'm going to apply it and I'm going to reflect on what I've done. And that cycle is very familiar to a lot of people who write code because it mirrors a lot of the process of developing something. Right. I'm going to scope it, design it, build it, test it, review it fits very well against this micro learning model. The other thing that I want to point out is I think it works really well also for people who have learning differences. So if you don't have the ability to focus on a long form piece of learning for weeks at a time, micro learning fits kelly well because it gives you the ability to learn something in a shorter amount of time that fits the attention that you have, the capacity that you have to pay attention to it. So I think it's very flexible. It accommodates a lot more people and their distinct learning differences than traditional learning has typically served, or at least that longer form has served 100%. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: And it's got to do with that cognitive load that improving the ability to comprehend and remember, because there's only so much that whether you have a learning difference or know the difference between you and I, we have a certain level of cognitive load that we can handle and it's our ability to make. And I keep going back to lovely Barbara Oakley, love her. To know the ability to take it from the short term into the long term. And that's in theory, actual learning and not just memorizing. Sean Tibor: Right. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: I had six key things. I don't know what they're called, steps, things that I do in order to promote micro learning. Do you want to go through that and see how they fit with you? Sean Tibor: Sure. Let's do it. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: So like you said, it's emphasis on repetition and space learning. It's that revisiting the core concepts and practicing in computer science. And it works really well with promoting this deeper understanding and the long term memory retention. We talked about this a lot in former and past episodes that, for example, if we're introducing something as simple as a list, we're not going to go in and talk about everything that happens with list and every single method with list and everything that you can do with the list. We're going to do a bite sized chunk, play around with that chunk, learn it, add to it and keep coming back to that lesson. And I know this is like on the smaller scale level to professional development, you'd be surprised, but it's that way of promoting the deeper understanding and that long term memory. Sean Tibor: Well, but I think that, like I said, you'd be surprised because actually I think that fits very well with professional development as well. The more that I've jumped between working with students that are in 7th and eigth grade and working with adults, there's so much that works in both areas that we discount because we think, oh, that's just for kids, or the kids can't handle that, that's just for adults. But honestly, it works really well for professionals to be able to spiral through a set of topics rather than focusing on one thing and trying to extract every bit of detail out of it. It works better to keep revisiting and learning more of it and continuing to learn other areas either as they're needed or in a structured, planned way. I learned something new about sequences and lists in Python all the time because I keep coming back and learning one more thing and one more thing and one more thing and it's much easier on my brain to be able to come back and learn that one more thing about it and then go use it and apply it than it does to try to learn everything and then try to sort out and how I'm going to apply that. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: Yeah. In that space, learning that we know really works. Learn something, chunk it, stop, let it sit there and do its magic and then learn again. Sean Tibor: Yeah. And switch context. So go from the absorb trying to learn and read and interpret and understand the information to I'm now going to try to use it, apply it, get some value out of it, something that is rewarding to me. If I can go through that cycle over time repeatedly, I'm going to learn far more than I will if I try to just memorize everything in a certain area. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: Yeah. And then the next one sort of connected with it is that interconnected learning. So it's this approach of simultaneously studying something with lists. So for example, very simple list. And for loops, we learn for loops, I introduce for loops. Here's a for loop print. Hello. Five times. The next micro learning activity may be list, but then connecting it back with loops in order to see how we can iterate through a list. And it's that interconnectedness that really encourages applying knowledge, making connections, looking at these big ideas, and it helps it to make the connections within our neurons. Sean Tibor: Yep, this is where you also can connect across also. So we're using examples that are within python and within data structures and some of the control mechanisms within python, but you get just as much or more if you ladder this up to larger chunks and say, okay, I've learned these basic data structures and control structures within python and now I'm going to apply that to this area of networking terminology that I'm learning. So I'm going to use a python list to get a list of IP addresses and then I'm going to iterate over those and perform some sort of action like port, scan them and see what ports they have open. Now, I'm an information security professional. You've linked these two bigger areas together, so don't feel that they have to be super tiny atomic chunks. Like you can build bigger molecules and connect those molecules together in interesting ways. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: That's such a good visual. I feel like that's going to be a great picture that I'm going to create in Dolly. Sean Tibor: I feel like I just promoted hacking and chemistry. So I feel like this is great. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: It's awesome. All right, so number three that I have is one that I like, is that active learning, active recall and practical application. So we can talk about list all we want, we can watch videos about list, and I'm just going to use list as the whole example today. But it's engaging students in those quizzes, those coding exercises, it's those things that cement the knowledge, that active recall of really testing what. There's that saying where teaching a kid how to study, don't just have them read a chapter and say, oh yeah, I've studied. Have them shut the book and have them quiz themselves and try to remember and recall, because it's that active process, that practical learning that helps to really solidify the short term to the long term. Sean Tibor: Yeah. And it doesn't have to be that the application comes before the knowledge acquisition. Sometimes flipping those things and trying to apply something and then going and reading it and then coming back to it again can be very helpful. So the idea of doing a quiz before you read the book to get a check of your baseline knowledge is useful to be able to learn better when you read through the actual text and try to do the learning and then test again to see if you've made improvement. I've done this in a professional setting, taking certifications so especially if the certification isn't expensive. Right. If there's no testing fee or something like that, or the testing fee is relatively small. If it's an area that I feel reasonably confident in, I'll take the exam, or at least a practice exam to be able to see how I would score on the test. And in a couple of cases I've passed the certification without actually having to study for it. I wouldn't recommend that. But it happened. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: Yeah, you're just lucky like that. Sean Tibor: I'll take it. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: So, circling back on something you said earlier, my fourth thing of micro learning, I need a word for thing. But things. It's object is interleaving. And interleaving is that process where we have multiple subjects or multiple topics and it's blocking and then blocking and blocking and blocking. So you're doing this kind of almost switch tasking in order to interleave the learning, varying the type, varying the style, varying the topic, or varying the way that you learn. And it's that variety of allowing your brain to make connections where connections wouldn't be so visible. So we're learning Python, and then maybe we're jumping to hacking, or maybe we're switching and we're doing this little break of moments. So I do this a lot, and I don't know if it's part of my attention, my attention, not that I have attention deficit, but my switching around is I'll go from teaching into this is AI. And I do this a lot with the students so that it's not the topic that I'm talking about, but list, but trying to help them see the connections of where generative AI has formed or how pictures, pixels are made. And it's that switching between talking about lists to maybe here's a photo and it's allowing them to see. Because we're explicitly teaching 6th graders to see the connectiveness of subjects. Sean Tibor: Right. This is a little bit different than some of the earlier points because this is almost like when you're exercising, there's a benefit to muscle confusion. New exercises and different exercises get your body to respond differently and better because it's not something that's expected or they're used to or that is familiar. It's something that's new and novel and a little bit confusing. So it's like there's a right amount of intentional confusion that you wanted to instill where it's a bit of the. Well, wait, how does that work? Or how does this fit together? Or she was just talking about lists. Now she's talking about photos, what happens here? And then when you have that moment where it clicks together, it's like, oh, now I see how it works. And you make a neural connection. Your neurons rearrange themselves in a way that is new and different that you wouldn't have otherwise had if you were teaching in a predictable, familiar sort of way. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: Correct. My number five thing that I love to do in my classes is tons of different types of learning materials. This is not really to highlight learning styles, because we know there's no specific way that a student learns. There is a specific way that they may like to learn, but it could depend on the topic. So I like to include videos. I like to do text. I like to do interactive exercise. I like to do paper and pen or talk it out. It's this switching of tasks. So it's not always the same thing, always code alongs or always watching a video. There's a whole bunch of different learning materials or educational materials that can improve retention. Sean Tibor: Yeah. Three magic words. Close your laptops. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: 100%. We love writing on the whiteboards and using the markers even, to draw it out. Draw something that you just saw or draw my hamburger method. For conditional statements, you have your bun and you have all your elephants in the middle. And draw it out and see what it does for improving your retention. Sean Tibor: Yes. Cool. It's a good one. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: Nothing else to say on that one. Sean Tibor: No comment for me. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: The last one, and probably the most important one, is something I talked about along. I don't even know if I talked about on here, but a long time ago, in my earlier years in Lima, I did a couple of talks on feedback. We know that feedback, immediate, specific feedback, is hypercritical for learning. And when you have micro learning, you're able to give. It's a little bit of work, but you're able to give more immediate and more specific feedback. Whereas if you have a summative and you've been studying for six weeks on a unit and you take a test and you bomb the test or pass the test, that's six weeks that have passed before you actually have been given feedback, this real time feedback is really good. That's a great way you did that list. Great. Or here you made this mistake, but it's allowed to correct or reinforce or aid in memory retention. Is that talking about the feedback? So there's all kinds of benefits to feedback and go on forever about that. Sean Tibor: Nice. All right, I have numbers seven, eight, and nine from a. Oh, let's see if perspective. Okay, so the first one is like this concept of laddering. Right? So in a professional context, one of the things you need to be able to do is take all of these individual pieces of micro learning and be able to assemble them into something that is larger, right? So you need to have the ability to show how they connect together, how they fit together towards some larger goal that you have for yourself. When I'm thinking about work plans and learning plans for myself and for my team, one of the things that we do is put together almost like a vision of yourself. At the end of the year, what do I want to know how to do? How do I want to feel while I'm doing that? How will I know that I've gotten there? And what can I do to show that I've achieved that level? Right? And this is not about business results. It's not about the projects that you've done. It's about your own personal growth and development over the course of the year. So you have all these things that you want to do. How do you know when you get there? And so one of the things that we do is work backwards from that vision of yourself into the individual pieces that you need in order to get there and further break that down into smaller and smaller chunks. And by going through that process, we can show how that individual bit of micro learning, or that project that you were assigned that required you to learn something is going to develop into the skills, the competencies, the knowledge that you need to be able to become that person at the end of the year that you have set out for yourself. We make sure that it's aligned with what the business needs, what you're capable of doing. We set a regular goal and then a stretch goal that you could shoot past to get to. So that idea of from a career perspective, you want to make sure that the micro learning that you're doing is helpful and not all of it needs to be directly related. Some of it can be like, I just think this is interesting and I want to learn it. You keep that in the appropriate amount of like 20% time or something where you are working towards learning that you're not sure how it's going to fit yet, but it's something that you think might be useful or you just find interesting. It keeps you engaged and keeps you moving. So my first one is connecting and laddering it all together, right? Making sure that it lines up towards a bigger goal or a bigger outcome at the end. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: So funny. First thing I think of is scaffolding and our 10% time in class or our free project times and KWL charts. Kind of silly, but what do you know before? What do you learn during, and what have you learned after? So it's like, where have you gone? All those little chunks of lane? Sean Tibor: So that's a good. Exactly. So make sure it all leads you somewhere you want to go. The second one is about badging and credentialing. So all of this micro learning, you have to have some way of demonstrating to others that you have learned something or that you know something. And there's a few different ways that you can do this. If you're confused about what I mean by badging and credentialing, the ultimate example of this is people who are named, who have the title doctor. When you hear doctor, you're like, oh, my gosh, they have gone to school for a very long time and they have learned a bunch of stuff. We have distilled all of that down into one word. So Doctor is like the ultimate example of credentialing. But there's a lot of other credentials, and this is a lot of the work that I was doing years and years ago when I was working in marketing for an online university. A lot of what we were trying to do was figure out, especially in it, how to create these smaller, discrete badges and credentials that you could use to demonstrate knowledge to other people. We talked last episode, or I think it's next episode now, about projects and portfolios and things like that, where that's one way of demonstrating what you know and how you know it. It's an artifact that you produce as part of your work, right? Is the portfolio, the project? It's an artifact of the learning. But there are other badges and credentials that you can get in a classroom setting. This could be stickers, this could be learning badges, like, you accomplished something, you're demonstrated some knowledge. Here's your sticker that you can put on the back of your laptop that says, I know how to do that. This process is not just to teach others, but it's also something that you get as a reward. It's a way of saying, I accomplished that. I did that. Here's my sticker. Been there, done that, got the t shirt. This is important in a professional setting. Also, we talk a lot on my team about the value of credentials, and we all know people who have a credential but don't know how to do anything. We also know people who know how to do things but don't have any credentials. The credentials here are things like certifications that you achieve or some sort of project that you've completed or a title that you can add after your name, like some letters, like the project management Institute has. This demonstrates that you have learned something, that you know something, and that you have proven that you have reached that level. I love it in the classroom, we've done stickers before that people could get or earn for doing things. I'm actually a little sad now because I figured out how to use Chat GPT to make custom stickers, so it'd be so much easier to get the artwork for them. It'd be so much more fun to create a whole system of stickers to demonstrate python knowledge. But this is something that we do a lot in the workforce as well, and also something that I encourage my team to do. And I tell them, I'm always going to support you to get a certification or to get a credential or to get a badge, because, one, it makes you more marketable. Inside the company, people see that you have this information. The second thing is looking out at the workforce. There are layoffs happening all over the place. In the tech industry, people are getting laid off, and hopefully that will work out okay. And a lot of great companies will get some very talented people, but you can always take that credential with you. So I've always felt, as a manager, it doesn't make anybody a flight risk to have more credentials. It gives them a security or insurance in case something happens to any of us. We have that ability to go out and demonstrate to others what we know. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: It's so fun when we have these topics that we're very passionate about. I love this. And you brought up two now that are awesome. That I forgot. And it's that they call it gamification, right? That's the trending word for what Sean's talking about, gamification of. Of. There's actually been a lot of studies about the influence of gamification and how it can help students outperform the other kids that are not having that gamification. It's engagement, it's improvement on particular skills. We're going to challenge Sean to make some gamification stickers. Maybe he can bring some examples to Pycon. And if you see us, you can ask us if Sean made any gamification stickers for teaching Python, and we'll see. We'll do a challenge. Challenge accepted. But there's a huge influence in education with gamifying your courses. And I know a lot of online courses did that during COVID and they still are doing it just because it's nice to see that. Yes, I've done that. And people can see that on your profile, whether it's a learning management system or I see educators all the time, they have those little badges. I just did my Ed puzzle badge and I just got my canva badge. And that is a way that these ed tech resources have gamified learning. So now you have this credential, these micro credentials, these micro learning credentials on our emails, and they're in our signatures saying, hey, this is what we've done. So that's another great one. Number three. Let's see if you can get three for three. Sean Tibor: Maybe I should have written these down. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: You forgot. Sean Tibor: The last thing is just that when it comes to learning and being in a professional environment where you are expected to grow over time, the last thing is make sure you go try to learn something that's completely different than what you're focused on in the classroom. So this is different than the connecting it or the interleaving it or whatever. This is about going and finding something that is completely unrelated to what you're doing as a way to further stress your brain in a positive way around learning. There's a lot here around the. I don't know if it's neuroplasticity, but the idea that my 11th grade calculus teacher told me, which is your brain is like a rubber band. If you put it in a drawer and you leave it there, it will become brittle. And the first time you stretch it, it will crack and break. But if you every day take it out and stretch it a little bit and stretch it in different directions, it will remain pliable and it'll work well for your whole life. And so that idea of going out and doing something totally different, like learning to play the piano or speaking a foreign language or learning how to do axe throwing or something like that, that just trains your brain to stretch a little bit further in a completely unexpected direction, is really great to help enhance the learning that you're doing within your own core space. In addition to all of the other things about connected learning, go do some unconnected learning. Learn something that's totally different and outside of your wheelhouse, and it'll keep you both motivated and excited and strong to learn in your core space, but it'll also help your brain become more pliable and more receptive to the learning that you need to do across the board. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: I think educators, we have a great opportunity. It's something that's not really. Maybe it's just not done so much in my current environment, but in the independent school way back in the UK, it was not expected, but promoted that we can go audit teachers class. And I'm not saying just sit in and watch how a teacher teaches. That's also good. That's 100% awesome. If you can do that, at least that's great. But literally take and audit a class. I audited a spanish high school class one year in the UK was very humiliating. Not humiliating, but humbling. Humbling, probably better word to be around a bunch of high schoolers who could outperform me. At the same time, it allowed my brain to expand on an area. This was a higher level Spanish and my Spanish was still in basic form, but I wanted to learn. I kind of got sat in on a course where everyone was speaking Spanish and I was just like, oh, God, what have I done to myself? But it was great and it was a great opportunity to stretch my brain. I recommend it to a lot. And I like to think that my colleague who is taking the python course right now, she is definitely stretching her brain and loving the opportunity to learn a different way. So it's really great. Sean Tibor: Yes. Go try something crazy. Right? Go learn to throw pottery, even if you've never done it before. Go paint. Go learn music. Go do stuff that's completely different and challenge yourself. This is something I need to challenge myself on. I'm, like, sitting here thinking, what is it that I'm working on that's totally different right now? And I don't have anything, so it's probably a good sign it's time to find something. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: Well, I'm going to go challenge my muscles today and try a hot yoga class, which I haven't done in a long time. So let's see how that works for my brain and my body. Sean Tibor: I love that for you. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: We went over the 30 minutes, but this was so much fun. Definitely passionate about this, both of us. Sean Tibor: Yeah. This is something I've been thinking about for a long time, and it's fascinating to me because it both enhances the traditional forms of education that we've had over the years and it also challenges them. Right. It asks the question, is this really the best way for people to learn in a post formal education environment where you are working, maybe raising a family, you're an adult learner trying to figure things out and learn stuff. I don't think you have any choice. I think it's micro learning or nothing. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: I agree. Sean Tibor: All right, well, I think that does it for this week. Just as a reminder, we are live streaming most of our episodes these days. So if you are not listening to us live and you would like to, probably the easiest place to find us is on YouTube. You can subscribe for notifications when we go live and you can also follow us on Twitter and on Twitch and get the same sort of notifications. I just find YouTube a little bit easier. So go find that like, subscribe button, whatever the kids call it these days, smash it and we'll get you notified when we're ready to stream. Yeah, and there's no promised timeframe for when these are going to happen. A lot of times Kelly and I are like, let's find a time. And it's 730 on a Monday morning. Let's do it. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: It works well. It works well. That's our spontaneity. I do want to put a shout out for the innovation institute. It's curiosity unleashed. It's going to be a great one. I know we're going to be flying some drones. Just a little secret out there. Going to fly them in the library. I love my drone. So that's one of the sessions we're going to be doing. It's April 15 and 16th. Check us out on the Pinecrest.edu website to learn more about the innovation institute. And if you're here in South Florida or if you want to take a great vacation in April, it's always pretty here. Check us out and come join us. Sean Tibor: Sounds good. I've gone many times. It's always a really great conference, a really great institute. It's a chance to meet and talk with people in more of an intimate setting. Like, it is not a huge conference, it's a boutique. It's nice, and it means you get to really know people better and spend quality, focused time with them. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: 100%. Sean Tibor: All right, so for teaching Py, this. Kelly Schuster-Paredes: Is Sean and this is Kelly signing off.