John Nunemaker (00:00.219) makes it nervous like. OK, I am John and this is the fireside podcast and we just want to start something and actually be able to use our software because none of us have currently have podcasts. Some have podcasts in the past. Some have been guests. But if we don't use our software, how will we know how to make it better? So we thought we would just start a podcast and go from there. So first, we're just going to say like who we are, let you know, and we'll kind of. ask each other questions and hopefully this will be a fun ride. So I am John. I am a programmer, mostly backend programmer, and I just have built and started a lot of SaaS businesses, worked at GitHub for a while and in general just really intrigued by the idea of like buying versus building because I've always built my entire life. And so I really like this idea of like buying and starting with like a customer base that exists and problems that exists and things like that. just like to help people through software. And so that's why that's kind of who I am. So and I'll send it over to Kris next. Kristopher Priemer (01:07.149) wow. My name is Kris Priemer I am an entrepreneur, consultant, marketing aficionado, closet, concert promoter. And, you know, on this project thing that was super interesting is spending the last 10 years doing consulting work for marketing for other companies and now trying to take all the things that I've learned and attribute those to my own product. John Nunemaker (01:19.406) Haha Kristopher Priemer (01:35.053) and also giving it a little bit more of a test bed to test out new ideas, activities, to see, you know, the state that the application is currently in and how we can make these different tweaks to make the company grow. And then we got Garrett. John Nunemaker (01:51.392) awesome. Garrett Dimon (01:53.721) All right, I'm Garrett Dimon I am a software developer like John, but whereas John's more of the backend, I kind of angle more towards the front end and things like usability and information architecture and design and those sort of things. And I've dabbled in marketing. I spent a lot of my career consulting. I ran my own Rails-based SaaS application for about eight years and then sold it. and have wanted to get back to it, but knew I would never do it completely alone again. And then the stars kind of aligned and here we are. So I'm just stoked to be able to work on an app with a team and being able to focus. And like John said, when it's an app that already exists, you know, you have a list of things to address already. There's no question of like, where do we go? How do we find product market fit? It's just, how do we just get down to work and start improving it? And It's nice to be able to focus on that and not have to be so back in the, the like high level thinking about what do I work on today? Marketing or development or whatever. And we can just fix bugs or answer support requests or add new features and just knock it out for people. John Nunemaker (03:09.806) Yeah, that's awesome. I feel like one of the key things too about who you are is you actually worked on this for quite a while. And it might be cool to mention that and talk about like some of that history. Garrett Dimon (03:18.488) Right. So I was probably, I don't even know the, maybe two and a half, two, two and a half years of part-time work while I was kind of an independent Rails consultant. I've been working on Fireside. Dan was involved in my previous app as an advisor. So, you know, we knew each other and have worked together for many years now. And so That was kind of a nice bonus that I'm definitely coming in with a running start, but previously I worked on a very narrow spectrum of it, just more the front end of the app rather than like the deep backend, the optimization, the infrastructure for delivering MP3s and file uploads and caching and bandwidth and cloud flare and DNS and all of that. have a passing familiarity, but definitely not deep. that's where It's really comforting to have John on board to be able to round out the area where I have big gaps in my knowledge. John Nunemaker (04:22.477) So I think also the reason that it's important though, like we do this podcast and we talk about who we are is because you guys don't know each other, barely at all. So this is like Kris and Garrett have been like on video calls. This is like the third time maybe, but yeah. So like what's that been like Kris, like for you? Like you're going in, kind of going in blind in one sense. Garrett Dimon (04:28.759) Well, that's who. Garrett Dimon (04:35.529) Bye bye. Kristopher Priemer (04:44.041) Yeah, I say going in blind, but I knowing you for the last, you know, 12 years, I think that is put, you know, you're coming from a trusted source. And I, and I seen, I've seen in the background, Garrett working on a couple of your projects. not that I, you know, looking at the code or anything, but, I know you've trusted him to, work on those projects. And I think the initial personalities to we met before we committed. John Nunemaker (04:59.448) That's true. Kristopher Priemer (05:11.881) And I think there's just a lot of complimentary skill sets and trust in one another, even just from that beginning conversation. Garrett Dimon (05:14.919) . John Nunemaker (05:22.007) Yeah, and Garrett, like not having to think about support or marketing. You've brought it up a couple of times, like how nice that is. And I feel like it's the same for me. Like I've actually enjoyed being able to just like hop into support and answer questions. And immediately I'm like, I know exactly, you know, what this customer needs. I know how to fix it, stuff like that. I've found that really fun to be able to like on most of my projects, I'm not doing support. It's like, I think it's a super rare thing for me to like. spend a lot of time doing support. So that's been kind of cool to do support. And then obviously, you know, Kris has been on working on a lot of help docs and marketing content and revising pages and text. What like why? So again, that's just random stuff. But like, why were you kind of excited about this? Garrett, like what when when this popped up in your head? Why did you even think to reach out to me the first time you talked to Dan about it? Garrett Dimon (06:17.303) I mean, obviously we had, you and I had been working together for the last year or two on, on rails apps in general, let's just say, and having run my own rails app there, I mean, there was even a point where I had thought about reaching out to Dan and asking him about figuring out if there's a way I could have by fireside. But then I realized the amount of infrastructure it required, like all of the user interface and that stuff is easy and very much in line with what I did with my previous app. But my previous app was just user interface. There wasn't a lot of infrastructure and that sort of thing. And so I knew I was like, you know, even if I could figure that out, there's no way I'm up for like handling all of this infrastructure stuff. and there's no way I'd be happy doing it. And so like having, you know, I sold my company about eight years ago and in that eight years, if there's anything I figured out, it's just, want to build front end stuff. want to make things easier to use and do it with Rails and Ruby. And I knew that. And so it was like, well, I really wasn't even thinking that far when I threw it over to you. I was just like, well, John's in SAAS. This is a Rails app and you know, we're doing all this other stuff. And I just threw it at you thinking if I didn't know somebody, I thought maybe you would know somebody. And then when that somebody was you, was like, well now we're talking. Okay. And John Nunemaker (07:44.108) Hahaha Garrett Dimon (07:44.764) Again, it was just kind of that serendipity of like, we've been working together on Rails apps. We both knew what we're capable of. And then obviously you and Kris have been working together and it was just like, okay, this is all almost like everything kind of just fell into place. And it seemed kind of unreal to be honest. And it's just like exciting because now I get to work on exactly what I want. It's just a matter of Kristopher Priemer (07:45.726) Yeah. Garrett Dimon (08:09.769) Getting from working on it part-time right now to growing it some more so it can be full-time on it and just crank on rails every day. Kristopher Priemer (08:17.481) So, okay, I the next question. I feel like it's a perfect opportunity to ask this and I don't know my answer yet, so I'll let you guys go first. If this is the first episode, what's your vision for where the app is a year from now? How would you define that? And I would say, it... John Nunemaker (08:42.175) I would, mean. Go ahead. Kristopher Priemer (08:45.865) I just say maybe outside of terms of like subscription or revenue, like let's leave that aside. You know, what would be the ideal state 12 months from now? John Nunemaker (08:50.836) Yeah. Yup. John Nunemaker (08:55.819) Yeah, I'll go first. And I'll also say like, I didn't even think revenue or like subscriptions or any of those are not the things that actually came to mind first. My first thought was like, like, like stability and resiliency, like I just want the software to work great. Like I wanted to do what it's promised to do to not cause people problems to get out of the way so they can do what they want to do, which is podcast and get their ideas and their content out there. So like that's Garrett Dimon (09:01.931) Me either. Not at all. John Nunemaker (09:22.815) It's a very generic answer. think more specifically, I would love to see. Again, part of the reason we're doing this is so that we are using the software so that we feel what it's like to create a new episode, to upload the MP3 to, you know, get a transcript and put it in there. so I want to I want to like when I picture it a year from now, I picture like in some fashion, it's more streamlined to create an episode. Like number one, And then like number two, I want to do anything that I can. I'm a stats addict. love analytics, all that kind of stuff. was, whenever I talk about analytics, I was talking about back in the day, you know, I played Tecmo football and like Tecmo basketball and all this stuff. like Tecmo basketball did not track rebounds correctly. It only tracked points per game correctly. And so I would pause after every rebound and like, you know, track my own rebounds and stuff like that. And like Tecmo bowl, The football game didn't track any stats, the original one. And so like I would pause and do stats, you know, attempts, completions, rushing yards, like everything for the whole season. And I had like just this booklet just full of this stuff beside me while I sat on the floor and played Nintendo on like, you know, this tiny old TV in my parents' room. And so like, I love stats. So that's what I picture is like, I picture, you know, number one is like, it's smoother and faster to create an episode. Garrett Dimon (10:41.141) Ugh. John Nunemaker (10:50.974) And that's easier than any friction that's there is like to get started, to create a podcast, to then get an episode up. I want that to be awesome. And then once you have that, I think the second thing is like, I keep thinking about like, how can I help you from like an analytics or from a stats standpoint, like measure what you're doing and see like what's working? What isn't? You know, and that kind of stuff. I just I always find that really interesting. I love measurements. So that's me. Garrett Dimon (11:22.26) Like John, I didn't think about revenue or numbers at all. I kind of feel like just based on SaaS experience, I just generally know like it's built. And so now it's more, if you do the right things and take care of customers, the numbers will take care of themselves. Like SaaS isn't a super tricky financial proposition from a business standpoint. It's just work on it, improve it, make it better and take care of people. And so... To me, it's kind of nice that like, that's really all we have to think about. We don't have to be like, okay, how do we find our first hundred customers? How do we like, we're past that. And so it's nice to able to dive in and just leverage our skills. And so to me, you know, cause obviously, you know, the last couple of years, life just took Dan away from fireside. So he hasn't been able to put as much time into it. That's kind of what happened to me when I sold my app is going through health issues, losing my leg, yada, yada, yada. I was like, crap, this is how it's going to happen. I'm not going to be able to juggle both of these well enough. And I didn't even want to think about it. And so I sold it. And so I definitely get that. so to me, and I've thought many times since then, like, it'd be so great to like, now that I'm recovered and I'm through the woods to like get back into sifter. And like, even joked with JD once about whether he'd sell it back to me and he wouldn't, but, that's another story. John Nunemaker (12:41.289) We all think that. who's sold an app has thought, maybe I could buy this back again. Garrett Dimon (12:47.123) And, so based on that and all of that experience and running sifter for eight years to like, if there's anything I learned, it's different when you're consulting and kind of following orders and delivering what the person who owns the app wants versus when it's your app and you know, I'm going to be responsible for this for eternity and definitely whatever it is. That it's like, want to invest in the thing. So the app kind of runs itself so that you are free to focus on those quality improvements of whether it's new features or bug fixes or whatever it is. And so to me, it's just exciting that we can do that. And so like, in my head, it's kind of like this first six months bearing in mind that it's basically part-time. It, or for me is that stability, the upgrades get all of the major frameworks and dependencies caught up. And then it's stable so that we don't ever, we're not wasting time putting out fires or like ad hoc addressing things. Then it's just running itself there that we can start focusing on really, really improving it. Not that we won't make other improvements between now and then, but at least initially it's definitely, it hasn't been, had those things upgraded in a couple of years, get those things out of the way so that we aren't. worried about any surprises there and then just run with it. John Nunemaker (14:18.995) Okay Kris, how about you? Where do you picture it in a year? Kristopher Priemer (14:20.868) Yeah. Yeah. So I go actually to the customers in the community and hoping that we can create a community of podcasters and customers that are really passionate about the tools they use, but also a space where they can learn from each other. And I, know, I would even go so far as to say like, is there like a mini podcaster conference that we put together of customers and get a speaker and have them all just learn how to better themselves and get more market throughput. So I think there's some really cool things we could do with the customers and the ecosystem that we, as we continue to talk with customers and get new ones as well. So I went in a little bit on the the the side. Yeah, yeah, I guess I know we can build amazing software and, I think there's a lot of cool marketing things we can try. On the flip side, think having a brand that people feel good about and want to tell other people about and are I think that's something that is, you know, time has to be spent to grow that sort of thing. John Nunemaker (15:12.935) Yeah, that's a cool spin, I hadn't thought about that. Kristopher Priemer (15:41.425) both talking with customers and providing those events, whatever they may be, to make that sort of thing happen. John Nunemaker (15:51.411) Yeah, that's cool. I what's interesting is like when you start talking about community and customers, I was actually thinking like, I'm like, like, yeah, well, oh this is great. We should make like a forum or like, you know, like, you're like, no, no, let's do the whole we're going to do an event. It's going to be, you know, we're going to get speakers. We're like, you go straight to that. I think it's cool that that's where you went because I was just thinking like very small scale, nothing like as cool as that. I like that idea a lot like and we definitely would have to have a fireside chat. Kristopher Priemer (16:02.06) Hahaha! Yeah. Kristopher Priemer (16:20.152) Hahaha John Nunemaker (16:20.242) or chats that's guaranteed so that's cool I like that idea Garrett Dimon (16:20.673) Yeah Garrett Dimon (16:25.039) Well, we're recording this on Riverside for Fireside. There's got to be some kind of camping theme that can come out of this. John Nunemaker (16:29.842) Mm. John Nunemaker (16:34.32) Yeah, well and all the sides too. I've actually noticed like a lot of people are like, how is a Riverside going? And I'm like, nope, it's fireside. That's the wrong, wrong side. But you know, it's okay. I'm okay with that. Garrett Dimon (16:36.368) Mm-hmm. Kristopher Priemer (16:42.049) Hahaha! Garrett Dimon (16:42.961) You Kristopher Priemer (16:47.695) Well, and one of the things that, you know, we're not YouTube, we're not even close. We're not going to be, but YouTube has a creator collective events they do. So they go around the country and have them for the creators to help them better their content and better what they're putting out. And I think there's a lot of people trying to do podcasting. And so I think there there's definitely the efficiency part of the tools that you guys talked about, but there's also just like the, John Nunemaker (16:58.191) Yeah. Kristopher Priemer (17:17.465) you know, how to do the thumbnails, how to do the marketing of it, how to get, you know, how to talk to their audience correctly. All those things, how to Yeah. John Nunemaker (17:19.707) Yeah. John Nunemaker (17:25.958) how to find people, like even just how to find people like that. Sorry, I thought that's where you're gonna go like next is like, how do you find guests? How do you get them scheduled? You know, like, how do you make sure their audio is not terrible? Kristopher Priemer (17:33.7) Yeah. Garrett Dimon (17:39.441) And all of this, did 24 episodes, I think, for my book where I interviewed a bunch of other founders. And that's hosted on fireside, of course. And so like I had some of that experience and there's so many logistical details to publish a single episode, you know, and from transcripts and images and, you know, pre-roll all this, like, it's nuts how much is involved. And, you know, John Nunemaker (17:55.631) Mm. Kristopher Priemer (18:04.185) Mhm. Garrett Dimon (18:08.248) I forgot somewhere somebody who was it that was saying how many hours per out like recorded hour it translates to. But it, and it was something ridiculous. Yeah. John Nunemaker (18:15.953) Ryan Bates for the Railscast. Yeah. Yeah. It was like for every minute, like that's that shows up. It was like 10 or 30 minutes of work or like, yeah, it was, it was a order of magnitude. Yeah. Garrett Dimon (18:30.401) I would have guessed more like I felt like I mean, I guess I wasn't super efficient because I was just getting started. But it felt more like well for podcasts a little easier probably than his videos. But I mean, I feel like it was taking me in like three or four hours an episode of just like, I don't know, this was, know, godly four years ago or so. like transcripts from a little more difficult and a lot of that stuff was just in a different place back then. John Nunemaker (18:59.633) Fun fact too, you mentioned like your podcast is on, on fireside and I hadn't even remembered that. I listened to some of them, but I obviously didn't connect that it was fireside or any of that. This week I was like, okay, well, I'm not gonna pay for my own service. I'm gonna like give myself a free coupon, you know? And so I was like going through the free coupons to try and like find a free coupon. And I was like, there's not any. I'll just make one. And I kept seeing this, it was like. Dan works here, Garrett works here. Like the coupon codes were named after the people who worked on Fireside that got free accounts. And then I was like, yeah, Garrett did work here. And then it was like, you know, for one podcast and I saw, you know, your podcast and I was like, yeah. Like, that was literally like two days ago. And I thought, that's hilarious that like, kind of didn't even think about it. I was just scrolling through some coupons and then that popped up. we do now we do actually have, you know, like a free podcast now. So we can, we can get it up there and get it hosted after this is done. Garrett Dimon (19:52.79) It's, it's, you got to eat your own dog or well, drink your own champagne, I suppose is the, the new way of saying it. Eat your own dog food. It Donaghy estates like Donaghy estates. Well, cause eating your own dog food is just less pleasant. Although like there is certainly a point at which you're eating your own dog food. And then eventually you're hoping to be drinking your own champagne unless it's Donaghy estates, which may be. Kristopher Priemer (19:59.009) Yeah, let's do that one. John Nunemaker (20:00.963) Is that the new way? I've never heard that. John Nunemaker (20:07.95) Yes, that's true. John Nunemaker (20:18.596) That's true. Okay. So drinking your own champagne, is that coming from something? Okay, it's just it's just okay. Garrett Dimon (20:21.731) Too obscure of a reference for real? I don't know. I think it's just a more positive spin on so you're not like, our app is dog food. It's our app is champagne. It may not be great champagne. John Nunemaker (20:32.016) Well, will say this, one of us of this three is a big champagne fan. They're in the middle on my screen and they're smiling really hard right now. Yeah, Kris is, every time he's at my house, he's like, he's ready to pop some bubbly over something, so. Garrett Dimon (20:40.568) Yeah. Kristopher Priemer (20:50.466) The we both have a champagne and wine episode of our favorite new finds The other thing I thought would be kind of interesting That we could list off Maybe it's maybe it's premature, but I'm just thinking now Okay, all the things that we need to do for a podcast and I was like, you know What by what episode are we gonna have some podcast, know artwork cover art? John Nunemaker (20:54.82) That's, that's, I like that idea. Kristopher Priemer (21:17.886) or what by what podcast, well, might we have like an intro, you know, an outro, you know, audio or music. Yeah, all those things that we'll have to figure out over the next couple of weeks that you don't think about when you get started. John Nunemaker (21:18.447) jeez. John Nunemaker (21:23.788) Yeah. John Nunemaker (21:34.945) Yeah, right before I hit record, all that stuff like rushed through my head. I was like artwork. was like, well, we can use the fireside logo and maybe we'll just like cut our heads out with some white outlines or something terrible. And then of course, you know, I don't have any pictures without sunglasses, so we'll figure that out. But and then, you know, the other thing I was thinking too is like for the intro, I'm like, like I was somewhere I was recently that you can use up to like a certain number of seconds of any song. Is that correct? Garrett Dimon (21:52.271) Hmm. John Nunemaker (22:03.917) or is that a lie? I making that up? Kind of. I feel like it's like 10 seconds or something maybe. Garrett Dimon (22:06.399) Mm. Kristopher Priemer (22:09.506) That's how lot of the social media ones, how why you can use the audio over and the artists don't necessarily get paid for it. But I'd also suggest, let's go on Fiverr and get some custom. John Nunemaker (22:20.451) Okay. John Nunemaker (22:26.103) Yeah. I mean, think I, Garrett, did you hear his hand race? I think he just volunteered. So. Yep. But yeah, I was, I was like stuff like that. I think that'd be really cool. Like a to have like, we need, we need actual artwork for the podcast. Cause then, you know, our, our fireside website will look legit. And then we also need, we need, for each episode, we should like try and do, cause you can do custom per episode. Kristopher Priemer (22:32.02) hahahaha Kristopher Priemer (22:52.961) You got to, if you want to get the downloads, at least from what I know from like the on the YouTube side, you got to do a custom, which also means maybe you need to create a box out template for us. Garrett Dimon (22:58.498) Yeah, you need to. John Nunemaker (23:05.772) Yeah, where we can just I know I go ahead. Garrett Dimon (23:07.32) Well, and we need to get a wrap for your camper and set up a recording studio and go all over the country, all over the world as far as we can drive. When I guess it, yeah, yeah, right. Kristopher Priemer (23:14.364) Yes! John Nunemaker (23:15.202) mobile. Yeah. We'll just never improve fireside. We'll just be podcasters now. Yeah. I like that. That's good. I really like one thing I speaking about intros and outros. I think my favorite is probably from what I've seen is where you get like one clip at the beginning. That's like some something where you're like, that's hilarious. And then it's like, you know, short bit of music like 10 seconds or like like my first million has that like, you know, Kristopher Priemer (23:43.926) Mm-hmm. John Nunemaker (23:48.387) the rap song and then like you just go right into it. Like I love Honey Badger, FounderQuest, the Honey Badger people, they always just like, they go straight into it. So like every episode, it's like you hit play and they're like, yeah, so the other day I was doing this and like they just, there's literally like, there's not even a clip. I think those two are, I like both of those formats. Garrett Dimon (23:59.831) Yeah, you don't need all that. Kristopher Priemer (24:07.47) What I would say, think that's what, John, if you're editing this, you'll have to consider is people don't want it to be slow. And so we got to edit out where it starts to drag and feel slow. If we're from just pauses or the natural conversation when you're listening, it's not always as interesting to experience those. John Nunemaker (24:19.234) Mm. John Nunemaker (24:26.754) Yeah, that's very true. Garrett Dimon (24:26.99) Well, and like I know some of the apps will just edit out that dead silence for you in a way, just automatically kind of trim it down and compress it so that it flows. John Nunemaker (24:38.814) That's part of the reason why I picked Riverside is because I'm pretty sure they do that. And if they don't, I'm going to be super bummed that I because I was but I'm like almost positive that somebody told me they like do that automatically. And I think you can like hit a button and get a transcript and all kinds of stuff like that, too. So I was like, again, we want to do like to get going. We know it's going to be terrible at first. But like, let's just get something out there in the world. And so like, what's the fastest way? And it's like, this seems like it'll work. It seems to be I've done a couple of podcasts. Yeah. Garrett Dimon (24:45.613) haha Kristopher Priemer (24:46.337) Hahaha Garrett Dimon (25:06.926) Figured out. John Nunemaker (25:08.886) So, but yeah, I agree. Like at some point, like there's some local people that do editing and all that kind of stuff. And I think that can be kind of cool leveling. I know there's, can go as far as you want down the podcast route of like, you know, quality and all those kinds of things. But yeah, but I'm excited though. I feel like all three of us have a lot of things to say. And so the question will be like, and we've talked about this a lot before we started and I almost hit record because it felt like an episode. We're like, what's what are we going to do? What format? What topics? Who you know, how are we going to do these kinds of things? And so yeah, I think it's it's interesting. It'll be a lot of fun. All right, do we want to wrap up with like, have we learned so far? are, it's October 31st when we're recording this. What was our close date? Does anyone even remember? it? Now I don't. Okay, that sounds. Kristopher Priemer (26:04.373) September 27th, maybe. Garrett Dimon (26:04.376) the big I say the beginning of October, the very tail end of September. John Nunemaker (26:10.828) Yeah. So we're just, just like a month in, like what, what is one thing that like, you know, you've learned or one thing that's like, kind of surprised you or like, anything like that. whoever, if anybody has a initial thing that comes to mind, go for it. Garrett Dimon (26:27.406) I mean, I've got mine is less of pure learning and more of validation because for. many years now I've had this theory that like, want to be involved in running another SaaS app again, but there's no way in hell I'm doing it by myself again. And, obviously there's complexities. Cause as soon as you evolve, you know, it's like the, saying, if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. and I've, I've even tried to like figure out the original source of that. And it's just one of those proverbs that is attributed all over the place. And so I don't know who originally thought it up, but that's kind of how it's felt to me just validating that for the years I've been like holding myself back and like, don't start something by yourself. Don't start something by yourself. Not that you shouldn't just that I don't want to again. and so like seeing this all play out, especially being part time, like Even if I'm, you know, doing other work, I come back and one of you two, if not both, have made progress on some important thing that so it doesn't feel like it's stagnating. If I'm doing other things in the meantime, mean, as much as I'd like to be doing this full time, we'll get there. But that has felt really good knowing that it's working like I always dreamed it. could, I guess. And that's been my biggest takeaway is just like, cool, I wasn't totally off my rocker. Like it was a good idea to wait and for the right circumstances and all that. And to just have a team again. John Nunemaker (28:09.666) Yeah. Kris, do you have anything in your head? Kristopher Priemer (28:14.403) I would say surprising. So I do a lot of this like beginning work and I've done a lot for either myself or some other organization. So it's very common to me. So I think maybe what's more surprising is I think having to help coach you guys through something like this is it's going to be slow. Maybe this is more coaching John of like these are challenges that happen. And whether it's you know setting up accounts or setting up bank accounts or getting credit cards all those things that John Nunemaker (28:36.523) Hahaha! Kristopher Priemer (28:44.335) I've done many, many times over. And so I know that there's a slog to it and it's not as efficient as software developers might hope it is. And so I think like, I'm more thinking the future and that's what it's more exciting of like, where will we be in three months if we just keep showing up, keep doing the work. John Nunemaker (28:55.224) Yeah. Kristopher Priemer (29:11.887) And that's, think, more where I hope to be pleasantly surprised on how quickly we're able to get there when we keep showing up. John Nunemaker (29:20.147) Yeah, that makes sense. And it is a slog. anything, and actually that was the thing that I wrote down is like all the stuff that you have to do to run, like, you know, a SaaS app like this and make money on the internet, at the beginning, like you just, you don't think about you need, you know, well, you have to transfer everything from the previous person and some apps that are used, make that really easy. It's like clicking a UI other apps. you've got to contact someone other apps have help docs and then you use that to contact someone then you wait a while and like so like seeing which software is easy to kind of migrate around or handoff is interesting and I think that gives you a little different different take on how you should build software as well. But you know on top of just transferring it's like bank accounts like we we we got access to everything and it was like, shoot, yeah, we need to be able to pay for the services. I hadn't even thought to like set up a credit card and I was like, I'm like, okay, now where can I get a credit card in a day? Well, I can't, everything goes to approval. So it's like, okay, well, let's go to the bank, we'll get that credit card there, we'll go to Chase or whatever and get a credit card there, we'll have an ad sponsor spot for them. No, I'm just kidding. like, you you go those two things, it's like, well, whoever gets here first gets my money going through them. Kristopher Priemer (30:16.774) Hahaha Kristopher Priemer (30:20.585) Hahaha Garrett Dimon (30:37.45) . John Nunemaker (30:37.939) Like that's literally where we're at, you know? And even just like on the same route, I actually just put in my personal credit card and a couple things, because I was like, I don't care, we'll figure it out. And then you get dinged with bills. And so then I've got to reimburse. And I'm like, like how do I reimburse? I've got to, I don't want to like just set up my bank account attached, because I know both of you guys are just very untrustworthy and you probably just start pulling funds out of my thing. so it's just like all that kind of stuff of like, you know, just being able to like receive money to give money and then to account for it in some fashion. And like all that stuff you just don't really think about. You just think, I'm just going to go in. I, this is what I just think I'm saying you, but like, just think I'm going to go in, I'm going to hack and it's going to be glorious. And you can't you, you know, I've had basically a month of just all that other stuff. I'm just now starting to get to where I'm like, yeah, I'm comfortable sup- responding to support requests and doing some things. that feel like coding again. and so that's been fun, but that's definitely, I think that's the thing that I've learned the most is just to remember that like, like you're saying, Kris, it just takes a lot of time, like, and now there's a song going through my head, but I won't sing it because that I am truly a terrible singer. So, but yeah, it takes a lot of time to get a SaaS app transferred. And then it takes a lot of time to get it like kind of stabilized and running smooth and just to be patient with that when you want to go and crank out some really cool stuff. That's a big thing. And then I think the last thing that I've learned is I love interacting with customers. I sometimes I forget that because like, you know, like on Boxout, one of my other bits of software, like I don't do customer support unless it gets extremely technical. And then, you know, on Flipper, another thing, it's an extremely technical product for software developers. And so like when I'm doing support there, it's like, it's almost like I'm just talking with friends. doesn't, it's not the same. Garrett Dimon (32:13.45) you John Nunemaker (32:34.793) And so this is the first one where it's like somebody who's like having a legit problem and they don't know how to solve it and they can't help themselves and they're really frustrated. And I was like, like, no, I can help you with this. And that's really, I think that's been a really fun thing as well to be like, no, I got this here. I'm here for you. I fixed this transcript URL or, know, you can now upload because I, you know, somebody restarted a process here. And so it's working. Like, I think it's really cool to see that again up close after being away from that for probably 10, 15 years really being that close to the customer. So I think those are the two things I've learned so far. It's just like it takes a lot of time and it's really fun to interact directly with customers who really appreciate when things go right. Garrett Dimon (33:19.582) Yeah, I would add to, cause I mean, it feels just like y'all just echoed and reinforced what I was saying. Cause I have been able to just hack. mean, obviously I'm already familiar with the code base. And so I could just kind of get in there and start doing things and figuring out little bugs or whatever. And that's been a huge relief because I haven't been bogged down with the operational logistics because I've known like, or thinking about marketing, like. John Nunemaker (33:28.64) Yeah Garrett Dimon (33:48.156) I haven't even had to think about that. And I've always enjoyed that diversity of like when you're running, starting something like you, it is exciting because every day is different, but on the flip side, as much as that's exciting, it is very difficult. Like the frame of mind you need to be in for marketing versus writing code and versus doing support. Like it's all so specialized. It's really difficult to shift gears between those and. Like doing it on a weekly basis isn't too bad. And so as long as you've got a team of people where you're all kind of coordinating and you can stay in the right frame of mind for the right type of work, you can do better work while you're ignoring everything else, knowing that it's taken care of. John Nunemaker (34:38.345) Yeah, agreed. Kristopher Priemer (34:39.979) Awesome. Well, for those listening, if you want to like and subscribe for to hear more about our journey. John Nunemaker (34:45.983) Ha ha! Garrett Dimon (34:46.484) haha Garrett Dimon (34:50.48) liking and subscribing. John Nunemaker (34:50.779) What's funny is I was thinking the whole time I'm like my you mentioned intros and outros and I'm like all time favorite outro is my first million because Sam always just like looks at Sean he's like is that the pod? Sean's like that's it and then they end I'm like that's how I want I want that ending. That's that's definitely what I love So maybe we'll have a gentleman's agreement at some point as well. We'll see Garrett Dimon (35:17.195) Right on. John Nunemaker (35:21.387) Yeah, I'll stop. I'll hit stop and cut it after that. Unless there's anything else you guys want to say. Kristopher Priemer (35:26.041) No, no, yeah, was gonna say stuff. That was my...