Gen Shaker === Daniel: [00:00:00] I've feel that, well, we Vince: have two dogs and Daniel: zero Instagram accounts. Well, I Oh, you're slacking. I Gen: know, but now I can see. Daniel: Yeah. Yeah. It's, uh, it's, there's, there's a lot of, there's, there seems to be a lot of people that do that, and then they have this whole personality that gets created about their pet, and then they just create an account out of it then. Just getting dog hair off here. Sounds dark hair off. Yeah. Gen: Sounds like a plan for, yeah. Daniel: There you go. Yeah. You've got just spare contents there. You're spare everybody's Gen: spare time that they have. That's our plan Daniel: B. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Good luck. Senior needs a puppy, right? Uh, so could he be our digital content Vince: creator? Two? Yeah. Two things on that. No. First of all, you, you guys mentioned you just got a puppy. Yep. Yep. What'd you guys get? Yep. Yep. Gen: A Malon Be a Maltese and Bichon. Okay. Oh, so Vince: small. Gen: She's tiny. Yeah. Yeah. She's four pounds and she's Oh, wow. Oh, almost seven months. Vince: Okay. So I see if I see her run across the Highland parking lot on, you'll know she catch or get her. She is Gen: a scaredy dog, so she, she'll, [00:01:00] she just, what I'm doing with her now is we walk like, maybe I'll walk over to Highland or walk down our street. I'll carry her. Mm-Hmm. And then when it's time to come home, you know, I put her down and she just runs home. So. That's how we walk. Daniel: Nice. She won't leave home, Vince: but she can get that. She can get back. Right. She can get Gen: back home. So that's good. Yeah, that's good. Vince: Yeah. You mentioned my dad. He, he is classic. I don't want any dogs, you know, we grew up with dogs. He doesn't want any more dogs, blah, blah, blah. But then when he sees him, he's like, oh, hey buddy, he can, oh another. So we're getting ready to start a house project after we do the office move. It's all great. Timing. Mm-Hmm. I know. Just stack it all up. We were thinking, but as part of that, there's gonna be a certain portion of time where we have to be out of our house, so we're just gonna move over to my parents' place. Moving back in Daniel: with your parents and, Vince: well, at first, my, my mom was like, oh yeah, that's no problem. And they just like, oh shit, you guys have two dogs. I'm like, Mm-Hmm. Where are they going? Your house and my dad was like, uh, I don't know about that. Yeah. [00:02:00] So we'll see how that goes. It'll be, he'll laugh Gen: it. It's a term, it's a term limit. Exactly. A hundred percent. So Vince: here's what's like a rent a puppy. Yeah. Here's what's gonna happen. We're gonna be there the first few days he's gonna like it. And then about a week or two in, he's like, Hey, uh, Sue. When did we say we're going to Florida? Yeah. How about Daniel: tomorrow? How we just leave now? Yeah. I just keep telling him, him, he should, the first day they show up, they should like go to Humane Shelter and bring a puppy for him. Oh, everyone. And say I bring like three puppies and just like, oh yeah. Hey, we thought, you know, it's a thank you for letting us stay here. We got you guys some puppies. Vince: I did start messing with them Daniel: that we were getting Vince: another one. And so we'd be over there with, you know, the two adult dogs and a puppy, and my mom was like. No puppies. You, you are out of your minds to get a third dog, let alone a puppy. Puppy. A puppy. But yeah, we're good that, that would be, that would be fun if we all showed up with a, yeah. A puppy in our hand. Oh my God. My dad would Daniel: crap. It'd be worth it. That's how you watch the Instagram account, Vince: right? Sorry. There you go. [00:03:00] Tired. Is this thing on. Hey guys. Welcome back to their episode of the Summits podcast. Thank you all for joining us from wherever you get your podcast, or if you join us on the Heroes Foundation YouTube channel. Thank you for doing so. By the way, if you're there, you haven't hit that subscribe button, please do so. It won't cost you a puppy. Um, but if you wanna get one that's great. That's send fine too. Send us, send us those pics in. Uh, and then while you've done that, hit the little notification bell icon so you can be alerted when new episodes like this very one drops. We would greatly appreciate it. Alright folks, we are going to talk fundraising and philanthropy today. Because that is how the Heroes Foundation, uh, started and how we can ex continue to exist and carry out our mission. Uh, Dr. Jen Shaker, who is the professor of philanthropy, or sorry, philanthropic [00:04:00] studies and the Donald, a Campbell chair in fundraising leadership. Welcome to the Summits podcast. Gen: Well, thanks. Thanks for having me. Yeah, you're welcome. Vince: Jen. Why don't you provide our listeners and viewers a little background on yourself. Gen: Uh, well, I'm from the Midwest. We were just talking about that. I have lived in five Midwestern states trying to cover some more in my lifetime, but kind of got stuck here in Indiana. Yeah. Yeah. And but Ohio, that's a good thing, right? Yes, yes. I'll tell you why in a minute. Yeah. Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Minnesota. Okay. Indiana. But came to Indiana to, um, get a degree in philanthropic studies. Yep. And then. Loved it here. Stayed here and made my life and career at what is now IUI and the Lilly School of Philanthropy. So had some ex many years of experience in there raising money for the university. Also, you know, wanting to [00:05:00] really understand more about how people give, why people give mm-Hmm. How we can, uh, create the best giving experiences, how we can raise the money for our causes. So, went back to school, did a PhD, and now my passion is. Helping people and organizations achieve their philanthropic goals and hopes through fundraising and other forms of philanthropy. Daniel: Well, that's perfect. We have some goals. Yeah, exactly. Yes. Did you work out in industry for a little bit before you went back and got your PhD, or did you jump right into. Gen: I worked in the university, came here. Okay. Did a, did ma did a master's degree. Started working. Okay. Uh, at what I, UPUI. Mm-Hmm. And continued to work there throughout doing my, uh, doctorate. Okay. Okay. From IU also. Nice. So yes, I, well, on IU day, once I described all my roles with [00:06:00] IU and it was long. Vince: Yeah, it was a long Gen: list. Well, that's Vince: good. You mentioned, um. That you've bounced around the Midwest. How many, this is random, but how many universities have schools of philanthropy now? Okay. Gen: Not too many we're the first. Okay. Vince: Really? Oh really? Yeah. First Gen: in the world. Oh, sweet. Wow. So that we are proud about that. Yeah. And, you know, excited to be part of that story. Daniel: What, what launched and when did it start? Gen: Uh, we started as a school that was more about, more than 10 years ago now. Okay. As a center on philanthropy. What we began as that is more than, uh. 30, 40 years ago now. So we've been around since the eighties. Daniel: Yeah. Gen: As a center on philanthropy. Daniel: Wow. I remember the Vince: eighties. You remember the eighties, not so great. Mm-Hmm. Nope. Gen: Well, the Center on Philanthropy came out of that. Yeah. Vince: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Gen: And And I have to say, I have to, we are also a product of philanthropy. Sure. And the Lilly Endowment was a core reason [00:07:00] that we exist. And they really wanted to build the capacity of the nonprofit sector. Mm-Hmm. So they see it as an important part of, you know, what makes our country go Mm-Hmm. And work and function. And so one way they thought of doing that was to build an academic field. So build a degree program, and build research and build the field in that way. And so they have supported us from the beginning and thus. Lilly Family School of Philanthropy. Vince: Yeah. The school itself. Do you find, um, is it, I should say, is it mostly made up of students coming through with that major or do you find a fair number of people who are, have already graduated with whatever are in the world of, of. Working for not-for-profits now and are coming back to the school to, to focus on that particular area, Gen: right? Well, or all Vince: the above. Maybe this, Gen: when this, the real, like if you really go back, a core [00:08:00] beginning of the school was through something called the fundraising school. Okay. And the fundraising school was founded in 1974 by Hank and Dottie Rosso, who were fundraising consultants and educators. Okay. And wanted to, um, teach nonprofits, uh, people how to raise money. And so they eventually gifted the fundraising school to Indiana University in 1987. Okay. Okay. And so, so first we began, you know, before we existed. It was a professional education program. Then we became a center, the fundraising school part of it. We became an academic program as well, offering degrees. Our first degree was a master's degree. And so, you know, I, uh, that was why I came here. I did that degree and most, most of the people doing that degree were people who were in the field or had had that experience. There were some people like me who came right out of undergraduate Mm-Hmm. And [00:09:00] knew this is. What the direction I wanted to go in my life. Sure. So, you know, so it's a mix. So the fundraising school continues. We teach professional development, uh, courses, hundreds of them to thousands of people a year. We also now have, in addition to the master's, we have PhD, a bachelor's, and a professional doctorate program. Okay. And so it's, you know. We have many people coming to us with experience outta the field. But it's also wonderful that in our undergrad program we do have people coming right out of high school. Mm-Hmm. Or soon afterward who know this is where they wanna go in their life. And so that's pretty exciting and I get the privilege of teaching a lot of those undergraduates and being part of their. Their philanthropy story. Yeah, Vince: yeah. Gen: That's really starting at the beginning and has been fostered in high school and through their, um, through their churches and through their communities, and. Through [00:10:00] Riley, right? Mm-Hmm. Dance marathon. A lot of us have come through that. Yeah. But who find us early as well as people who find us throughout their careers and lives. Vince: Sure. Do you guys still offer, like ex um, I'll call it executive classes, if you will, like not full fledged. I'm, I want, I wanna get a degree, but I already work for, not-for-profit, but I need some, I'd like to get. More education. Yeah. Yeah. So you offer Gen: Yeah, absolutely. And I, in fact, I'm teaching Monday through Wednesday, this coming week, our leadership course. Okay. And I was just looking before I came, uh, at the group that's in the course this time, and it is an amazing group of, uh. Nonprofit leaders, people in leadership roles are ready. Mm-Hmm. Presidents of, there's a president of a college. There's heads of nonprofits. There's also younger professionals who want, who aspire to more leadership in this class. And so we're teaching those types of courses all the time. Mm-Hmm. In person. This one's in person in Indianapolis, but we teach [00:11:00] them in other cities around the country. Also online. Yeah. And so those are, um, we have a couple certificates. One in fundraising management, one in fundraising leadership. We're launching some other ones this fall. Some things around planned giving and other things like that. So we're very active in that space. Vince: Okay. That leadership one, how long does that typically last? Yeah, Gen: so that's three days. Three days. Okay. Three days. Um, all, all day. And there this, in this cohort, there's 30 students coming and we, you know, we pride ourselves on providing a mix of research-based insights, and also interaction and, uh, best practices from the field. Okay. And so it's amazing to see the groups of that come to us. Mm-Hmm. And the. Learning that happens in the room. I mean, I think, I think of myself as just a facilitator, right? And there's so much amazing experience that [00:12:00] comes in the room and so much that all the students learn from each other. And I say students, these are professionals with many years of experience. Mm-Hmm, right? Who are, you know, coming to us to build their, you know. Their knowledge on lots of levels, and we just are really privileged and grateful that they choose us for that. Mm-Hmm. And I learn every time, so I'm excited. That's cool to see what happens. Yeah. Next week. I like that. I have to look into Daniel: that. Yeah. How many, how many students do you are typically enrolled in a year? And then what's the breakdown between Indiana or local students versus people that are coming in from outta state or overseas? Gen: Yeah, so now in the professional education or the academic professional? Daniel: Uh, I'd say academic. Gen: So in the academic, our ma or both our master's, our master's degree is our largest Okay. Program. Our first mm-Hmm. In our largest program. And we usually have about a hundred over a hundred students in that, you know, mo many, many of those. Students now are online. Oh, okay. [00:13:00] And studying from around, around the country. Mm-Hmm. And beyond to do that degree with us. And then that has changed. That shifted during Covid, right? Mm-Hmm. And so, but we have a very nice in-person, um, cohort two, and they are coming from around the country and around the world. Cool. The in-person students, it is. Amazing where they are coming from. Mm-Hmm. From around the globe. And that's the same with our PhD program, which is just a small group of students admitted every year. Mm-Hmm. And, but many of them are international. Cool. And then we, our new degree, which is our. Professional doctorate. Mm-Hmm. In philanthropic studies. So that is for, um, already people established in, in their roles in organizations and that is fully online also. And so people in that program are, are also around the world doing that program. And That's amazing. We just launched our second year of that, our second [00:14:00] cohort. Oh, fantastic. And. I, I mean, I am just in awe of those students again. And then our undergrad ba, you know, mostly they're from Indiana. Okay. Coming to us and, and like a lot of our campus, um, yeah. Hoosiers, yeah. Coming to us, uh, wanting to, um, stay in the state and make contributions to the state. Even after they finish, so that's good. So it's very, it's a, it's quite the mix. Yeah. It's, it's never boring. Yeah, that's right. There's always, I mean, people's stories are, um, the best better than fiction people's own stories. And there's always an amazing, amazing story, right. Books Vince: based on those alone. Gen: In the school of Philanthropy about what brought, what brought them to us because everybody is coming to us with a cause, with a passion, with a desire to, to do good. And so following that journey and helping them along the way is just, you know, the best job. Vince: Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. It's probably a broad question, but on [00:15:00] the online portion that you have a fair amount of international folks. Yeah. Uh. Without going into great detail, could probably an episode on its own, but like, do you see a lot of trends, like whether you're fundraising in Australia or Japan or somewhere in Europe or or North America? Is there a lot of trends like, I mean the human spirit is very similar regardless of nationality, or is there a lot of difference in how they go about fundraising? Some cultures are either. You know, just have a different mindset. Gen: Yeah. It's Vince: probably maybe a mix of both, but, Gen: yeah. Well, you know, we, in the school of Philanthropy, we are studying philanthropy around the world. And my, um, good friend, Dr. Pamela Weep King, who is in, also in an endowed chair that focuses on giving around the world. They have termed the made the term generosity behavior. Hmm. And so we really think of the ways people are philanthropic under a big umbrella. And [00:16:00] the word philanthropy, you know, it's doesn't roll off the tongue and it doesn't resonate with everybody. So trying to really think about other ways of framing the, these things we do to help other people and help the world. And so, you know, when it comes to fundraising. It, it's in a very different place in countries around the world and some other scholars. Um. Uh, Beth Brees and Wendy's gave, made like kind of a description of what fundraising looks like in different countries. Mm-Hmm. And when it comes to fundraising, you know, they determined that the US is the most advanced. It's just most established here, formalized fundraising to non-profit organizations. It's most established. We have a giant nonprofit sector. Mm-Hmm. We have a long legacy of people giving in this way. We have lots of structures of support. We have. Education, like what we're talking about. And it's not that way everywhere. Mm-Hmm. You know, [00:17:00] in many other places, there are other countries, um, Canada, uk, Australia, you know, that are, um, Netherlands, countries in Europe that are not where we are, but that are pr but are growing in this area. But ev growing in kind of more advanced, but one of their conclusions is that every country that they studied. Believes this is important for the future. Sure. And needs to build this infrastructure that can provide all these additional services and supports that we need and that everyone needs across different societies. So that's. People are generous back to my beginning point, like at everywhere. Vince: Mm-Hmm. Gen: In different ways and ways that are distinct to the Mm-Hmm. Their culture. Yeah. And their understanding of what, what is giving is. That can vary or the reasons why definitely varies, but when, you know, it comes to kind of this sort of giving that we have in the US [00:18:00] that is something other places are, are working to grow. Daniel: Okay. Hmm. The things you know. Yeah, exactly. The more you know, the more you know, the more you know. Yeah. The more you know. Yeah. Do the little Then what Gen: do you do? The Daniel: little Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Once you know, what do you do? Vince: Yes. We had a, um, we had a, you and I had a conversation, uh, leading up to this episode and, and it, it was interesting because it kind of. Jen flipped a script on me. Mm-Hmm. She started asking me more questions and I was asking her, and I was like, oh, okay. This works. I'm holding back. Can you tell? Yeah, I know this. We're just getting started. I'm just, I'm leading into it. So, so what is your first question for us? Gen: Oh, so my, my first question is, you know, how have you experienced people's philanthropy and their giving in your. Your many, your years, 24 years of the Heroes Foundation, and you know, what is, how have you seen people be philanthropic [00:19:00] and generous? Mm-Hmm. Vince: Well, it's been pretty widespread. I mean, I have no background. I have no education in philanthropy. Um, oh, I Daniel: thought you were gonna. Full stop at no education there. Vince: Well, that's debatable as well. Um, is that a Purdue joke? Pur? Why you joke? I mean, that was a little rough. Um, I, you know, pe people, as you, you were mentioning earlier, you know, people, people want to help. Mm-Hmm. Um, and, and help, and I don't know if this is how you define philanthropy in general from a really broad term, but, but people wanna help in d in different ways. It doesn't always have to be giving money. It's a great way, don't get me wrong. Um, but we were talking about events earlier. Like we have our, our golf tournament at the end of September and we need people to help. We, we need volunteers there, otherwise we can't put on a good event. People won't have a good time. Um, so there's, there's a variety of ways people can, can give and be Phil, be philanthropic and feel like [00:20:00] they're giving back and making a difference. Um, whether that's through a check or whether that's through volunteering or, or what have you. Mm-Hmm. Um. The other thing I've learned is you just have to ask. Gen: Yeah. Vince: And a lot of people, uh, I, I being a salesperson or having a sales background, um. As my dad always used to say, and other other sales individual would say, you have to ask for the sale. Like, you can present all the stuff, but don't just assume they're gonna get it. Like, okay. Yeah, I'm in. Like, you have to just ask for it. Um, and if the answer's no, that's okay. Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm. Move on to that next Mm-Hmm. It's a numbers game. We, I were talking about this earlier. Mm-Hmm. Um, so I think that the biggest thing is just is, is asking and, but then at least being educated enough to know how to structure your ask. I mean, yeah. I'm not gonna go around everyone and say, oh. Well, you gimme a million dollars. Right. It has to be realistic. Right, right, right. Um, bill Gates was just at the, uh, IU School of Medicine. The, the IU or Yeah. [00:21:00] IU Indianapolis campus. Uh, this past week, um, I. You know, we're not, we're not getting Bill Gates as coming to the Heroes Foundation to make gifts. That would be awesome. Bill, you're welcome to anytime. Have you asked? I have, I have not asked. I don't have, I know he's not in my contacts. I gotta figure out what his, what his mobile number is. Um, but that's, that's probably one of the biggest things. And, um. You know, we, we, you and I were talking about this earlier, where, where are we now after 24 years and kind of, we just happen to grow up in the world of, um, fundraising via events. Mm-Hmm. And it's not necessarily wrong, but we also know that as we have made the decision to, as. Carry this thing forward to get beyond the core group of us that started this 24 years ago. And this, we want this thing to be in existence 24 years from now, whether we're still here or not. Um, we need to diversify. First of all, all we need to. Create structure. Mm-Hmm. So that's hiring staff. Mm-Hmm. Because, you know, one, it takes money to make money and you, we've gotta invest in ourselves just like a business does. [00:22:00] Uh, and two, we wanna diversify our, our revenue streams. Mm-Hmm. To put it in business terms, I mean, uh, yes. Event fundraising will still be a big part of that, but there are a whole host of other, um, philanthropic revenue streams out there that we're not really tapping. Mm-hmm. And it's getting the people in place to help put the structure in place to then be able to go after some of those. And some of those streams may not make sense for us, but certainly others do. Mm-Hmm. That we're just not, we're just not tapping. Mm-Hmm. And so, uh, those are important. And I think, um, you, you asked me a question right before we started, which was, what am I most proud about? Um, both in general as well as short term and in general, the fact that we're still here. Mm-Hmm. I think that's. Pretty cool. 'cause I mean, let's face it, when we, we started this, we were 26 years old. Mm-Hmm. And you'll appreciate this because all three of us are having to be hi members. And the very first one. Was it the first gala? Mm-Hmm. And I put it in air quotes because it [00:23:00] wasn't really a gala, was it Highland? It was originally gonna be at my parents' house. And then all of a sudden the guest list became like 300 something. My mom was like, uh, you're not having that here. So we moved to Highland and it, it was like, what you would expect, a bunch of 20, you know, mid 20 somethings. And then in like our, our parents' group. So it was, it was great. None of us, none of us knew what the hell we were doing. I mean, some people were involved with dance marathon at IU and other things, but like. That's all we knew we had. We didn't know what the heck we were doing. Um, but it was fun. So it was basically like a nice cagr. Um, and then the parents, you know, 11 o'clock, 1130, midnight, came around. All the parents were like, okay, we're out. They left. We Gen: gotta Vince: go. We kept going and our original goal was to raise 10,000 bucks. Gen: Mm-Hmm. Vince: Um, and it was like three-ish in the morning. We were still at Highland. There's, I don't know, 12 or 15 of us, just a core group. I was maybe a month out of chemo, so I think I had my first, you know, beer or two that night in eight months or nine months. And, and, um, we were sitting on the floor and a buddy of [00:24:00] mine who was kind of acting as accountant said, Mm-Hmm. Um, I think we raised almost $45,000. I go, I go, dude, you can't see straight right now. Let's come back tomorrow to clean up and we'll talk about this. And sure enough, you know, the next day we came back and we were kind of run through things we're like, wow. I was like. 43 and a half thousand dollars. Like wow. Wow. We didn't know what the hell we were doing. Amazing. So it was that moment when we said, Mm-Hmm. And I think it was Heather O'Brien. It was Heather Countryman at the time, but Heather O'Brien today mentioned, we gotta keep this thing rolling. Mm-Hmm. And we're like. Okay. Yeah, let's do it. So I'm, I'm, I'm most proud because we're still here. I don't, that was not part of the plan. Had no idea this would, would evolve. Um, and then Daniel being a current board member, I think he's, he's been around the last few years to Mm-Hmm. To see this firsthand is the collective decision, uh, not just from Cindy and I but the board as a whole to say, Hey, the vision is 24 years from now, we want this thing to. Still be trucking. Mm-Hmm. And whether Cindy or I are around or not, doesn't matter. [00:25:00] Um, what do we need to do? What do we need to put in place today to make that a reality? Because the reality is, whether we like it or not, cancer will still be here 24 years from now. In what form? And you know, how, how well have we advanced the, the fight against it. Remains to be seen. Hopefully we've made a lot of progress, but people still get diagnosed with cancer. Um, so we wanna be here to help address that and help support that community, however, that looks 24 years from now, which my crystal ball isn't good enough to say what that's gonna look like. But, um, that's probably my answer to that question. Mm-Hmm. Gen: Wow. And, and that's a good answer. So many things in there I wanna respond to. One is, uh, research says 90% of people. Give after their give the. Gifts from 90% of people follow and ask. Mm-Hmm. A request invitation to give. So, you know, no [00:26:00] matter how much we care about something, most of us don't, you know, kind of randomly wake up in the middle of the night, dash our computer and just make a contribution and. Even if we do, maybe it's because someone talked to us that day about an organization or their story, or maybe we saw an advertisement or maybe we, you know, so we are prompted. To make these contributions and to we just, something helps it to come out and to happen. And so yeah, we have to get over that, that hump, that bump that, uh, anxiety of inviting somebody to be part of a cause. Mm-Hmm. And that's how we talk about it in the fundraising school. We're inviting people to join us in, in something important and something that matters. And that's actually something to be proud of. Yeah. Be because that was creating important things in the world. Mm-Hmm. You know, and so I think you're right, you know, in inviting people to be [00:27:00] part of our organizations, our causes in various ways, and thinking about the ways people can be involved. Uh, the school philanthropy put out a, a nice, steady, just like. Couple years ago now, maybe it's called What Americans Think about philanthropy. And so just talking to people, you know, what is philanthropy to you? What do you think of it as? And coming kind of out of that report we were, that report talks about philanthropy as kind of simply as, um, time tr time, treasure testimony ties. And now I'm missing talent, you know? Yeah. So the idea that we can, we can give money, we can volunteer. Mm-Hmm. We can, uh, tell our story. So that was, that's included in that, how that report was thinking about philanthropy testimony telling our story, which I've heard people doing Mm-Hmm. On the Summit's podcast, telling their cancer story and their family story and, and that kind of thing. That's a [00:28:00] piece of it as well, sharing our networks. Mm-Hmm. Right. And that's, that's one that. You talked about quite a bit, and that's what really made this organization possible from the beginning. Yeah. Um, and, you know, advocating, spreading the word, all those things, those are all forms of philanthropy. Giving our time, volunteering at the events. Right. Um, using our specialized skills that we might have. Mm-Hmm. On behalf of a nonprofit organization. And so. Having ways that people can interface with your organization is really important. Mm-Hmm. In a, that variety is important as well in terms of, you know, building their connection and their affiliation and, you know, it started on, on sitting in a circle on the floor, Vince: right. Three in the morning, who knew Gen: three in the morning as a young person. Right. You know, like, and, uh. Uh, for a lot of people, you know, it's, it's the philanthropy and doing good for others that drives their their [00:29:00] life. You know, I, I have, I teach a class on celebrities and philanthropy and gotten to talk to some celebrities and just, well-known people. And a lot of people say things like, well, that's my day job. That's just my, this other thing. That's my day job. Yeah. I know it's great all that, but what feeds me is these other things that I'm able to do. Yeah. Because of my day job. Yeah. And so I think that's, um, you know. That speaks, speaks a lot to why people give and volunteer and serve, and why they do it over and over again. Mm-Hmm. It has a deep, it has a deep place in our psyche. Right. And it you, and that keeps us going back to do it more. Mm-Hmm. Vince: It makes us feel good. Yeah. Mm-Hmm. Gen: It makes us feel good. And once you have that feeling, you want to replicate it. Right. Which is a good thing. Right? Some things you get a good feeling from maybe not so great. True, true. But this is, but this is one where you can, you know, dig in and [00:30:00] just keep going, right? Mm-Hmm. Yeah. And. Do amazing things. Yeah. That you probably never thought you would do or would happen completely when you started out on this journey. Vince: Right. You asked earlier, um, uh, what was the question? Something that the, the answer ended up being, um, like some of the things we're working on now, but um, had to do with really. Me kind of breaking it down. This, this is again, the non academic answer, but it was, it's a numbers game. Mm-Hmm. Both numbers in terms of, uh, numbers of donations, but really it's, it's, it's getting out to hit the numbers of people. Gen: Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm. Vince: And one thing we always talk about, people have heard this a hundred times, that I feel like in Indiana it's, it's two ways back to Kevin Bacon instead of seven. Right. Uh, because. The three of us. I mean, so you two have not met before this morning? Mm-Hmm. But my, I would bet a hundred dollars that if you two started chatting about your different networks, all of a sudden you're gonna find connections. Mm-Hmm. That are only separated by like maybe one person. [00:31:00] Mm-Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, it's crazy how that works. So for us, it's, it's okay. You're familiar with heroes. You're now familiar with heroes. Who else do you know that's gonna start to get into that family? And then of those, you know, 10 people that get introduced to it, maybe two or three, really find that connection and stick. And all of a sudden now we have two or three more either donors or volunteers or whatever. Gen: Yeah. Vince: Um, it's amazing how it worked out. Um, and then we were talking. Just before this about moving offices and whatnot. Gen: Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm. So Vince: access are my, my day job that pays the bills, um, is moving and then, then that, that somehow flowed into heroes is gonna need to find a new office. Mm-Hmm. And then sure enough, Hendricks commercial properties who are about, while they're based outta Wisconsin, have a big presence here. Indy. 'cause they're, they did Ironworks and Bottleworks. Mm-Hmm. And now did the Circle Center mall, um, they had open space and like. They have been great to work with. Mm-Hmm. Now I realize we're, we're like down here on their list of priorities right now, especially with the Circle Center project take getting ready to start up. But like, they've been [00:32:00] great. They're, I mean, you, that's, that's the, you could argue is that treasure, is that talent, it's maybe kind of a mix of both, but like for them to say, oh yeah, you know, we have this space in the building that you're, that assesses in. So that way you, you, 'cause we have some shared resources. Um, we're not utilizing it. Why don't you guys take that space? Gen: Mm-Hmm. Vince: Okay. That sounds great. Yep. What's the rent? Yeah. No, we'll just, we'll do a trade out, you know? Yep. We'll work on that. Like, it's like, awesome. Yeah. I mean, just how you stumble into that and you, and then you come across, you know, even for, for-profit companies, but that they have a heart, they want to improve the community that they're in. Mm-Hmm. That's massive. Mm-Hmm. Well, there, Gen: there are people, you know, in those companies. Vince: Mm-hmm. Right. Gen: And um, as you know, I really believe. In the goodness of people and that when they can, in, in almost all cases, people do want to help. And so we're, it's, it's nice [00:33:00] that, you know, our companies, there is more space for them to do that these days. And you know. And everybody can always do more. So I won't say that everybody's doing everything they can do all the time. Sure. Yeah. But you know, I do think that we have, we generally kind of look at companies and expect them also to do some of that, and that has. Evolved over time. Um, there was a time when companies weren't, couldn't do that. It was not legal. Mm-Hmm. They needed to always, shareholders. Always, always. First, first. And, you know, you couldn't direct some of that funding to be to, to nonprofits. They found other ways, but, but yeah. That has that changed and. The middle of the last century. And so we, yeah. You know, we see that and we have companies now that are B companies and other forms that have really leaned into, uh, community concerns. And so I think, you know, there's, I think you're right. Like people do want to help [00:34:00] and, and they will individually and within these companies or other structures. Vince: Mm-hmm. Right. Um, as part of that question, when you asked earlier what. From a short term standpoint, what are we proud of? But then I think you asked what's, what's our biggest challenge right now? Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm. And I think it, it's, it's the same, it's the same answer in a way. And that when we made the decision that we want to continue to be here 24 years from now, Mm-Hmm. The big challenge is, okay, how, how do we do that? Gen: Mm-Hmm. Vince: And how, what, what is the structure we need to put in place so that it's not, it's less reliant on those that founded it and now it, you know, it has its own legs. Um, so we're kind of putting that. Putting that structure in place and then also figuring out, okay, with that structure, those people that are coming in with a greater much, certainly a greater knowledge base than than I had, um, are looking at. It's okay right now. You know, like, like any business you hit, there's, there's multiple revenue, revenue streams. Mm-Hmm. Revenue stream opportunities out there. We're [00:35:00] only tapping one or two when there might be four or five others that are applicable to us. Mm-Hmm. So we need to start putting. Things in place to to, to go after those because that's what's gonna better allow us to, to make it the next 24 years. So I think that's our biggest challenge right now, is just getting some of that structure in place that maybe wasn't there, and then figuring out how do we, how do we go after Mm-Hmm. Some of the. A cast a wider net, if you will, I guess. Yeah. Gen: Yeah. And I think that makes a lot of sense. You know, you have gotten really far with the energy and passion and commitment and that that emanating from you, the founders, and then through the board and through your circles and. But you know, there kind of comes a time in an organizational like life where you do have to kind of think about, you know, what happens, what now? Okay, you made the decision. Vince: Mm-Hmm. Gen: We are here. We are here to stay. What do we need to do? We need to move things outta my [00:36:00] brain or my notebook. Vince: Mm-Hmm. Gen: And move it into these systems and structures. Yeah. And so I think that's near maturing. As an organization and your life cycle and Yeah. So found founder, you, you're, you're trying to I was, I was, I was heading Daniel: him up because he was like, like, you mature. Yes. Gen: He's Daniel: he's been maturing for a while. Yeah. You've been witnessing it. Yeah. Yeah. It's a process. Gen: It's a process. Yeah. But yeah, and so it, it's. That's what you have to do. And it's good you're, you know, Mm-Hmm. Doing that now. Right. And not, you know, I've heard other stories where it's really down the, it's prying the information out of the founder's brain is a challenge. Mm-Hmm. Right, right. And your, your level and of investment and commitment is what has made the organization go, but it won't make it like. Go forever. Vince: Mm-Hmm. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I'm not, I'm not Yoda. I'm not living this 700 and whatever. Gen: No. So, you know, a actively thinking about what do we need to do? Yeah. Who, who [00:37:00] do we need to have on our team? How do we, how do we move towards a professional, more professionalized organization? Right. Vince: Yeah. For me, one other struggle is gonna be, I'm curious to hear what your, what your thoughts are on this is. I think one benefit to us is that we are small and nimble and. Still pretty entrepreneurial and. If we see an opportunity and we, you know, study, I'm like, Hey, let's, let's try this out. We know it, it may work, it may not. We, we try to mm-hmm. You know, do our best to make a, an educated guess, but then know that, you know, we've tried new things. Some, none of all of them worked, and we, so we pivot and then go a different direction. Whereas some of the, I'm not saying I'm anti big, large national orgs, but like some of the big, you know, the larger companies, whether it be non-profit or for-profit, they just move more slowly and mm-hmm. Mm-Hmm. More established and whatever. And I think in some respects, I have seen people who kind of like that startup ish environment mentality that we're in, [00:38:00] um, I've also seen it not work in our favor Mm-Hmm. Because they look like, look at a say, well, you're, you know, I'd rather give to the, the American Cancer Society who's been around and it's huge. Yeah. Um, versus you guys because you're, you're, you're small. Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm. Um, so I think for us, that's been a challenge as well, is trying to figure out how do we sell ourselves to. Um, maybe a little bit older, uh, more mature, uh, donor who, um, doesn't know much about us and, and might be more concerned with whether we're really accomplishing what we, what we're setting out to do. Mm-Hmm. So that's probably a challenge for us too. Gen: Mm-Hmm. Well, and I, I think there's a lot of space between where you are now and, um. Becoming so, you know, too bureaucratic or, you know, stagnant, you know, so I think you have a lot of room to kind of maintain or continue that sense of innovation and, uh, experimentation that's been really a hallmark and just have, you know, move towards a little more [00:39:00] formalized. Systems or structures. Sure. And so I think you can, you can carry that value forward as a value Mm-Hmm. Of the organization. And you know, in some things you'll, you'll have some, in some ways you'll be able to innovate better 'cause you'll have more inter information to help you make those decisions, you know? Yeah. Vince: I use our research piece as a good example because we, we started out wanting to fund some support programs that back 24 years ago were not. Part of a stable piece of cancer centers today. It's commonplace, whether you're at the IU Simon Cancer Center. Mm-Hmm. Or a smaller, like urban or a rural cancer center. Mm-Hmm. They all have some form of a support program now, which is great. Gen: Yes, Vince: yes. Um, the prevention piece was just kind of common sense, like how do we go out and just continue to educate the public, like don't smoke, put on sunscreen, things like that. It was the research piece that we got to. You know, you see our three summits in the logo there? Mm-Hmm. They, they, they represent support, [00:40:00] prevention and research. And our big initial question was like, research takes like millions or billions of dollars. Like we don't have that, you know, if we have 25 grand, like what can we possibly do? And, and as we went and we actually talked to people in the research world, like, oh my gosh, that 25 grand is hugely important. Mm-Hmm. I'm like, Mm-Hmm. Okay, you just, bill just made a $25 million gift and what's, what am I gonna do with 25 grand? Yeah. And they're like, well, here's the deal. Um, Bill's 25 million may go to a much more established project. Yes. But there are tens of projects out there that doctors such and such has this hunch and. Like they don't have enough data or have proven anything yet to get that $25 million grant. Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm. They have to start up and prove some things out. They need some help at Gen: the beginning, which requires Vince: lab time, mice, supplies, help, whatever. So they said they like, you're a business person. I'm like, yeah. They go, you know what angel investing [00:41:00] is? I go, yeah. I go Think of yourself as an angel investor. Gen: Mm-Hmm. Vince: And these younger kids come to you and they have this idea for the startup business, but they're, they're going out. They can't go to the VCs to get No. A hundred million dollars or whatever they need. They've gotta go to friends and family to all chip in and help 'em. Mm-Hmm. Get this thing off the ground. That's what our research dollars are doing. And it's been, it's been interesting seeing some pe telling that story to people and be like, oh, I get that. Makes sense. That's cool. It's exciting. Mm-Hmm. Um, and what's more exciting though, is when, um, you, you fund a project and, and there was one in particular, it was a pediatric, uh, cancer project. Mm-Hmm. And. I can't remember the timeframe, but let's say it was two years from the time we gave the initial gift to, um, the time they uncovered or proved out, um, whatever that model was, and then could take it. And they went on to get a, I can't remember the number, but a much, much larger grant from Right. Um, might've been a Department of Defense, I [00:42:00] think, but it was, it was like, you are like a proud parent, like. Oh my God, we helped them get to that. Yeah, that's awesome. And I'll never forget the researcher who unfortunately has passed away, but um, several of us from the board went in because we wanted to see kind of Mm-Hmm. Get, see what happens in that environment, whatever. And, you know, of course he was talking all this stuff that was just flying over our heads, but he is like, lemme just show you like, okay, so he takes us over this, you know, large computer screen and essentially says, okay, these are cancer cells and now I'm going to. In, insert the, um, combination therapy that we came up with and literally it was like a video game. You could see the cancer cells like exploding and dying. I'm like, it's like an old school aral. It's like Atari 2,600. You don't know what that is? I do. Okay. Yeah. Uh, game. But like you could see like. The, this, the, the regular John and Jane doe's. And they were like, oh, I get it now. Mm-Hmm. That's awesome. Mm-Hmm. Yeah. How do, how do we, how do we help support more of that? Mm-Hmm. That's cool. Mm-Hmm. Um, [00:43:00] so I think for us it's, it's, um, still ha as usual. We were talking about having, having still having that kind of mentality of a, a startup mode, but, but maybe a little bit more mature than where we were 24 years ago as 26 year olds. Gen: Yeah. Well, I think that's an exciting place to be and yeah. How you can. You navigate those choices to continue the organization and keep those values that are there now will set you apart and, you know, gives you your niche as an organization in this big space, uh, with this big need and big disease that touches so many. I. Everyone. Yeah. Yeah. So we, we need all hands on deck. Mm-Hmm. Right. Helping with this Agree and Yeah. Whether it's Bill Gates or Heroes Foundation and Right. You know, maybe part of the same story one of these days. Um. And that's fine. You know, like the scale, [00:44:00] different scale is needed. Vince: Mm-Hmm, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Gen: So keep it going. Keep, you know, working on the things you're already working on and building the organization's infrastructure and, and, uh, approaches to raising the money and then telling the story. Mm-Hmm. Like the stories you've been telling here about the impact you're having. And I think that's important and people are looking for those stories and examples and. And you're great at telling them. So that's important too. Mm-Hmm. Thanks. Vince: Well, speaking of telling stories, yeah. Jen, you know, the basis of this podcast is cancer stories. So Jen, what is your cancer story? Gen: Well, I was thinking about what the fact that cancer is. Really everybody's story. Now, some people it is their story. Yeah. Mm-Hmm. And they were in, they went through it and they, um, their family was there and their friends, and you had all the experiences. But I think for all of us, it's our shared story because. [00:45:00] There are so many people that are affected by cancer. Mm-Hmm. I just was, I'm making a list. As we were thinking about that, I was making a list of all the people in my life who have been affected by cancer in different ways. Mm-Hmm. Um, and different types of cancer from, um, breast cancer, to skin cancer, to lung cancer, to bladder cancer, to lymphoma, to brain cancer. And I wondered. Uh, has there always been this much cancer? Mm-Hmm. You know, better than I. Or do we just know more now that Yeah, that we, we see it, we catch it, we diagnose it, and thanks to Medi Modern Medicine, we have so many more ways of treating it. And so I think, you know, my cancer story is. Uh, not a personal story of me and the experience that I've had, but of what I have witnessed in so many people in so many lives. Mm-Hmm. And [00:46:00] I just am so glad that there are organizations like The Heroes Foundation that are approaching the disease from all these different. Perspectives and trying to find cures, but also support, support families and individuals as they're going through. Mm-Hmm. And prevent prevention. I mean, that is, I've heard that so much. We are so focused often on cures and what's happening afterward, that there's a lot that can be done in the prevention space. Mm-Hmm. And there's more research all the time that is helping us to know these many factors Mm-Hmm. That contribute. And so I just. Um, I'm grateful that we, you know, have nonprofit organizations like yours who are approaching this problem in the many ways that it requires. Vince: Mm-Hmm. Oh, thank you. Yeah. Gen: And grateful for the progress that has been made in, um, what in the past would've been terminal [00:47:00] diagnoses. Yeah. Are not that way anymore. Mm-Hmm. So, I'm. Really grateful for that and yeah, Vince: grateful for that. Yeah. At the same time, especially for me being the never satisfied dude, let's Gen: go. Vince: We also know there's just still too many people dying from it. Mm-Hmm. And, um, you know, we, we have, we have a lot of work to do. Mm-Hmm. Gen: Yeah. Yeah. I know. I'm seeing a, a friend of mine this weekend who just, you know, out of the blue, got a lung cancer diagnosis just suddenly one day and. It turns your life upside down. Right. And one day you're fine. We were talking about that last year. I was fine and then suddenly this year, my whole life is different. Vince: Right. Um, so Sarah begs, who we both know. Yes. Her daughter, 24 years old out of, no, not never smoked, um, out of nowhere at 24 stage four lung cancer. Like, wow. I can't say what I wanna say, but like what the, you know what, like, Gen: yeah. Vince: [00:48:00] I don't get it. Gen: And how and how's it going? Vince: I mean, she's still battling, but I mean, she's, she's making progress, but, um, I mean, she's, she's got a battle on her hands for sure. Mm-Hmm. Gen: Yeah. So, uh, we wanna stop, we wanna stop hearing those stories 'cause we don't want them, we don't want this to, we want to solve this problem. And that's one of the things, you know, philanthropy is about is yeah. Fostering innovation and change. And so it is a space where. People, people and organizations, um, funding can come in and say, sure. Why don't you try that? Vince: Mm-hmm. Gen: You know, you're not ready for the big government grant yet. Right. But that's okay. And you know what? If you try it and it doesn't work, at least we've tried it and we know and we'll do the next thing, right? Yeah. Yeah. And so that's, uh, one of the roles that philanthropy can serve for us is to kind of go into that [00:49:00] space. Vince: I think in addition to that, one thing I've always asked, and I've asked this to doctors, so I'm like, Hey, I'm not a physician. I've never done any research. So if, if this is a dumb. Statement, just let me know. Um, but if they pr, if they do something and they prove that it didn't work, somehow put that out there. So others around the country, around the world aren't wasting resources, whether it be time, lab, money, what have you trying to. Invent the same wheel that we already know. Right. Can't be invented or every someone working. Gen: Yeah. But yes, it's important to get that information out there too. Mm-Hmm. Vince: I know that's always a little bit easier said than done, but Yeah. Gen: Yeah. Well, sometimes you have to publish something that says, well, this didn't work, and here's, here's the next step. Like Right. We, or we hope someone else will take to. Learn from this experience. Yeah. Vince: Well, um, I do want to say before you, we go, um, the leadership course, I want to get some more information on that when I walk into that. Good. Um, I can, I can think of a few candidates that [00:50:00] might benefit from that. Gen: Good. Well, yes, I'm wind me up and get me tacking about philanthropy. Fundraising. Vince: Well, we'll talk about that one. The drinks. I'm be glad to keep that. Gen: Yeah, yeah. Keep that conversation going. And you know, I'm just, thank you so much for having me, and I just am excited to see what the next chapter brings and you know, how you build on the momentum that you've had already and just keep, keep working and bringing people together to, yeah. Find, find a cure, many cures. Mm-Hmm. Yep. Is what actually what it's requiring. Yeah. Vince: Well, thank you. Appreciate it. Thanks. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks for your time this morning. Yeah, thanks. And thank all you guys for joining us on this episode of the Summits podcast. We appreciate you guys joining us. We hopefully, we hope that you all learn something new today. Um. We appreciate you guys. Uh, hit the notification bell icon so you can be alerted when new episodes like this one drop again. Hit that subscribe button if you haven't already. Super simple. Don't take a class. You don't have to get a [00:51:00] puppy. Just, just hit it. Um, outside of that, guys, don't forget as this basis of this whole conversation, think about who has been affected in your world from cancer and, um, think about how you can pay that forward in, in whatever way you can. Mm-Hmm. At the end of the day, don't forget, guys beat cancer.