103_Veronica Grant === Veronica: So in order for love to exist, there needs to be two things. There needs to be acceptance. There needs to be trust if there's not acceptance, and if there's not a, there's not trust, then whatever you're feeling towards somebody it's not. It could be lost. It could be filling a void, falsely healing, a wound, you know, like I like to call it as someone's scratching your itch. That feels really good. Like if you need, if you need someone or need to be in a relationship to feel chosen, to feel good enough to feel worthy, and then you are in a relationship, even if it's a crappy relationship. A good example of like, basically someone's scratching your edge. That feels really good. Um, but it's not love. And this can be kind of, I understand like a little triggering, cause some people will like perspective, but it was love. But I th I think of love as like, I kind of think of the same thing with happiness. Um, to me, love and happiness. Aren't really emotions. They're more states of being, and you can love someone and be. Angry at them. You can be very happy with them or like, you know, you can be upset with them. Like you can feel it, lots of different emotions, but love. Doesn't just like turn off and on. === Monica: Welcome to the Revelation Project Podcast. I'm Monica Rogers, and this podcast is intended to disrupt the trance of unworthiness and to guide women, to remember and reveal the truth of who we are. We say that life is a revelation project and what gets revealed. It gets healed. Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of The Revelation Project Podcast. I'm with Veronica grant today, Veronica is a love and life coach. She's host of the popular Love Life Connection podcast, and she helps successful women who feel like they have it all except love. She believes deep work is the only way to deep love Veronica's work has been featured in O the Oprah magazine, Cosmopolitan, Your Tango and countless podcasts. She's struggled in love herself. And was tired of unsolicited and usually patronizing dating advice, even if it was well-meaning and the outdated, often unspoken patriarchal rules that still govern dating out of this frustration, she created the resources she wished were available before she. Her now husband, through her binge worthy podcast, free challenges and coaching. She's here to shake up how you find love even in our swipe, right? Swipe left world. A few of her guilty pleasures include this, made me laugh, psychoanalyzing, TV, and real life famous. Couple. That's so good hiking with her husband pop and new baby and sushi, everything welcome, Veronica. Veronica: Thank you so much for having me. I'm super excited to be here. Monica: I just want to start with psychoanalyzing of TV shows because isn't that the most fun thing to do? Veronica: Oh my God. It's so fun. I just, I do it. It started, I started doing it with Sex in the City when I used to watch back in college and then it just grew to like, doing that to the bachelor and then How I Met Your Mother. And then that's, I'm trying to think, oh then like all of the rom coms, of course, and now 90 Day Fiance, like I just do it all over the place. And I love that. Monica: And of course, like the dating ones, right? Like of course the relationship and dating ones. Like how can you not analyze that? I know. So, all right. And these are guilty pleasures, right? So. It's such a funny thing, that whole guilty pleasure thing, because there's this way when I see the bachelor or I'm watching something like that, where I'm like, oh, this is so patriarchal. This is so weird. This is so wrong. And then there's part of me like, Ooh, I wonder who she, you know, or who he's going to choose or, you know, and then I'd get all into. Veronica: I know, I know I struggle with that. And particularly the bachelor franchise, cause they just have so many issues when it comes to gender and race and patriarchal norms and just, oh my God, everything. But I really do think that. I dunno. I mean, I guess in some ways, like I am buying into it, but on the, on the other hand, if you can watch it and then critique it and all the ways that it is harmful, then, you know, cause the show is going to exist. Whether or not Veronica Grant is watching it, it's talking about it. Do you know what I mean? Right. It's going to be there then maybe I can. And I actually did this to my podcast recently. I don't, I don't like over do it in terms of talking about it. Cause a lot of. Producer manipulation anyways, but I do find like the last few people that are left really is more about the relationship than like whatever shenanigans the producers are going to throw at the contestants. And so there was this one, like. big breakup where people are like, oh my God, this poor guy. And like, we're blaming Katie, who was the bachelorette or whatever. And I'm like, dude, he was gaslighting her the entire time. But it was like so subtle. Like, you wouldn't necessarily know it unless you knew what you're looking for. And so I felt like I had to do an episode specifically on that because the past that men particularly white men are given is just like insane. Yeah. And, uh, so anyway, so like, I'll, I'll talk about like, things like that in the podcast, but don't overdo it. Cause again, a lot of it is just like. Stupid producer stuff, but like that to me felt pretty, pretty real. And also, you know, sometimes it's, you don't know that you're being gaslit when you're being guests, like, cause that's the whole point of like what gas lighting is, you know? And so I thought, great example to be like, look how subtle it can be, that it looks like. There for not to pull a line from the bachelor, but from there for the right reasons, you know what I mean? Like where I was trying, I did it up. And so it seems like they're like the good person and like doing all these good things, but really they're gaslighting you so Monica: Well, but seriously, it wouldn't that have helped so much. Is just to kind of like, when I think about what's missing in schools, it's so many relational skills, like learning relational skills and learning how to be in relationship. And so I just think about like how useful it would have been to have a class on relationships and watching a clip and then kind of. Dissecting or breaking down what really happened and, and what the dynamics were because a lot of this stuff is, is hidden in plain sight. Veronica: Oh, Totally, totally. Monica: It's kind of like the, what not to do. And especially if you're watching it from that perspective, you know, in your pick, you're picking up these things, I think then it's helpful. Otherwise, you know, the parts of it that are really harmful are also parts that. Cringe, you know, especially if like my daughter's watching and I'm like, ah, you know, don't watch that There's so much to talk about here because like relationships and I think you and I, you know, share. We've both learned the hard way, how, how to have a really healthy dynamic relationship. And so I'd love to just hear any, anything you want to tell us about why you do the work you do. Veronica: Yeah. So I remember when I was dating, I just got to a point emotionally where I was just like, What the hell? Like what, what am I missing? I want this so bad.I've wanted it since literally sixth grade. Not exaggerating about that. And it's just not freaking working. Like what the hell? And I was nearing the end of a second. I had two relationships right in a row in my early twenties. And the second relationship was definitely. About to end. And I was like, I was in denial about it, but I also knew, and that was what was creating the anxiety. And that was the first time I found myself. Working with anyone about like, what the hell, what do I do? And I, I'm not exactly sure what she was like. I don't think she was just like, just a therapist. Cause she called herself like a spiritual, whatever, but something along those lines. And so we were having one of our first couple of sessions and I was telling her about the relationship. Just the anxiety. Like I really wanted, like I wanted to marry this freaking guy, even though I could only been dating a few months. I just decided that I was in love with him. Cause he was everything I wanted and he was kind of. You know, cool about me, but not like super into me. And so of course I just wanted to know, okay, what's the playbook? What do I do? How do I get him to like me? How do we get back to how we were at the very beginning of the relationship when he was super into me and it was super great and blah, blah, blah, blah. That's what I wanted going into my sessions with her. And she kept asking me about my upbringing and my parents. And my family and I was like, why are we talking about this? And I don't remember exactly what I said, but I said something and she responded with. Okay. So it sounds like that you weren't really in an emotionally available home. Like you didn't grow up in an emotionally open home. And I was. Kind of sat there for a second. I thought kind of like taking in what she said. I was like, huh? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was, yeah. We didn't talk about emotions. The only emotion that was there was anger. And it was usually when you were just like poo pooing it onto someone else, just cause he didn't know how to emotionally regulate or deal with it. So I just learned to just deal with everything and shut down everything. And I didn't know how to connect deeply with someone. And I only really knew how to connect on more of like a. Since. And then I learned to feel the things that I wanted to feel, which was love and security and belonging and joy and peace and calm. I outsource all of that. I learned how to feel that through being skinny. I learned how to feel that through getting good grades, by having lots of plans and being quote unquote popular and all of those kinds of things. And so. With that being kind of how I operated both in terms of how I related to myself and related to others, it's not really surprising as an adult who never really learned communication, boundaries, connection, vulnerabilities, all that kind of stuff that like, I didn't really know how to connect with someone. And instead this person was just filling that void that I so badly wanted to feel connected with somebody. I just didn't know how. And so I was just allowing him to be that thing for me, even though. The writing had been on the wall for four months. And so. Having those conversations about my childhood for me to realize like, oh my God, I'm just playing out old stuff. That's all the says, this has nothing to do with this guy that I was in a relationship that I was in a relationship with. And for me, that just, that was really, I'd always been into personal development since I was little. I just, I don't know, I'm a Sagittarius rising. I think that might be part of it, but I just, I love it. I'm fascinated by it. Like I just want to strive and go deeper and deeper and deeper and learn and learn and learn. But I know. I got that. I never understood how we're playing out childhood stuff in our especially relationships, but I think in lots of areas of our life, and that really began the journey. That really I'm on now, although, you know, much, much further along. And that's really what inspired the work that I do with my clients and on my podcast and all that stuff, because, you know, I just, oh God, I have to like roll my eyes. When I see things like five texts to, I don't know, get him to say yes or, or whatever. And I'm just like, I mean, look like if you want to play that game, I'm not the boss of you would do what feels good for you. But like, let's be honest and ask, really ask yourself, is that working for you? And is that. Really the game you want to play. Cause you, are you just trying to get someone to like you or are you trying to find the right person for you? Monica: Yeah. Veronica: And those are two different things and I don't care about someone liking you or not. I know it feels good. It's good for the ego, blah, blah, blah. But like, I want you to find the right person for you. So I do, what's called inner child work. I didn't make up inner child work. I'm just a practitioner of it, but I do. What's called inner child work to help people really unravel. The patterns and the beliefs that they find themselves in stories, they tell themselves about themselves, about love men, women, relationships, all that kind of stuff, so that we can heal that and then approach this area of our life. That can be very tender, very sensitive from a place of compassion, a place from our highest self than like, uh, please love me. Please love me kinda place, Monica: Right? Yeah. The reaching, the continual reaching and the desperation and the triggered, you know, stuff that comes up like after the honeymoon is over. It's so true that I can really relate to your story because I couldn't see the pattern that I was living out, you know, and why I was choosing the men that I was choosing either. And. Every single one of those choices was dictated from that inner child that wound that you know, of never feeling truly seen. And so I would choose emotionally unavailable people who couldn't see me because somehow that unconsciously felt familiar and that I equated that with love. Veronica: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's that's you said an important thing about love. So in order for love to exist, there needs to be two things. There needs to be acceptance. There needs to be trust if there's not acceptance, and if there's not a, there's not trust, then whatever you're feeling towards somebody it's not. It could be lost. It could be filling a void, falsely healing, a wound, you know, like I like to call it as someone's scratching your itch. That feels really good. Like if you need, if you need someone or need to be in a relationship to feel chosen, to feel good enough to feel worthy, and then you are in a relationship, even if it's a crappy relationship. A good example of like, basically someone's scratching your edge. That feels really good. Um, but it's not love. And this can be kind of, I understand like a little triggering, cause some people will like perspective, but it was love. But I th I think of love as like, I kind of think of the same thing with happiness. Um, to me, love and happiness. Aren't really emotions. They're more states of being, and you can love someone and be. Angry at them. You can be very happy with them or like, you know, you can be upset with them. Like you can feel it, lots of different emotions, but love. Doesn't just like turn off and on. It's not like you love someone one day. You don't love someone the next day, like love is a little bit more steady and you can achieve that steadiness when again, you have those feelings. Safety or excuse me, when you have those feelings of trust and acceptance. But like, if your relationship is all over the place and it's like hot and then it's cold and then the person has a loof and then like they're all over you. And then maybe they'll tell you things, like I told you things that like, I've never told you when, before leaks, like these are all ways that we can build false vulnerability, false intimacy with someone and think it's love and not really understanding what love is. Meaning that like, love is more of that stability, that stable. Kind of undertone, uh, across the entire relationship. Um, when we, when we fall asleep, thinks something is loved, but it's not, that's when we end up staying in relationships that are dysfunctional, toxic, or even hurtful harmful to ourselves, like the love is there or the sex is there, you know, which can also be confusing. Monica: Right. Because that, that, that can be confusing. Absolutely. And you talk, so there are a couple of things I want to go back to. One is. Yeah, like the game playing you, you set the playbook and there's this way that I was making up, that you were referring to like the five things to text or whatever that those are some of the ads, right. That I've seen on social media platforms. And like, God forbid, you even say, this is the worst advice I've ever heard in the comments, because you'll start to get more of those ads. Right. And it's like, no, I don't want more. But there's so much bad advice out there because, and those are not, that's not something that's going to teach us how to be relational. It's going to teach us more of the same, which is kind of the, the dysfunctional way of kind of getting your needs met. But in that false way, where, when I think of intimacy, I really love breaking down that word to, into-me- see, which always puts the onus on me to express where I'm at in this moment. And what's coming up for me when I'm in a relationship. And if that means that I'm saying to. My husband, Austin, like, wow, I'm really noticing myself feeling triggered right now, or feeling like tightness in my chest because of something that you just said, like, there's this way, that true intimacy, like we don't necessarily start fights. We start conversations so that we, we feel like we can see each other and then we can resolve anything as it comes up and let's face it in. Middle of the day. You may not have time, but then later in the day, it's like, Hey, something came up for me today that felt really confusing or upsetting. Can we talk about it and just noticing the differences that I have in my relationship with him now and how that is completely different from anything I have ever known in the past, where I can really attend to an attuned to someone else. Consistently in a way that just feels like we're continually kind of in this choice to be with each other and in this dance to want to create space for the other one, too. Feel seen and loved and known in. Right. And it's not like we don't fight because we do, but it's, it's goes back to something else that you said, which was growing up. We don't realize, like I had friends who used to say, my parents never fight. Like, I've come to learn. Like that's not a good thing either. Right? Like that's not normal either. So I would love for you to say anything that's coming up. Veronica: Yeah. Well, I think what you just shared really hits home to this idea that what I think people are really looking for, it goes so much more than just these five texts to get someone to like you back. And I understand why those kinds of ads and articles and whatnot exists, because heck I want to click those. I'm like, what texts are these top secret? Yeah. I want to know what these things are, the holy grail. Yeah. And so, and, and so then like we get straight into like, you know, clicks and money and all that kind of stuff. So I understand why those blogs and ads and posts and whatnot exists. I understand why people click on them because like, again, I know all that stuff's crap, but I still want to know what those freaking texts are. I'm very curious. So, but I think that, I think the thing that, that comes up for me is we get. Dating and being in a relationship. We confuse the two, it's not even confused as to, we think they're the same thing. And I think that's why those kinds of blog posts and ads and headlines and whatever, you know, are so like, oh my God, please tell me. But, you know, I hear a lot from people like, oh, I hate the dating. I just want to get over the dating part. And it's like, well, then just get over the dating part. You know what I mean? Like, you don't have to play by these roles or play these stupid games because that's all the patriarchy anyways, like all of those tips, all of those roles, they disempower women just by their very nature. It's like, don't be too much, you know, you have to, especially, you know, I'm talking again right here. Heterosexual relationships, but you know, for the woman, it's like, don't be too much. Don't, you know, show off your successes to let them know if you make more money, if you own your house or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, be sweet, smile, be kind, whatever, blah, blah, blah. And like all of that is just like taking your power away and giving it over to the person. And so all of these rules, don't text back, wait, three hours. Don't ask for the next day, don't share how you feel. All of that puts the. Back into the man's hand, just so that he can dictate the rules. He can dictate when you see each other or what the status of the relationship or the boundaries or whatever they may be. And so I understand when people say like, I don't want to play by those rules. I don't want to play, I don't want to date. I don't want to do any of that stuff that I'm just like, well, just don't. Yeah, just don't and, and just jump into, how do you want to show up in a relationship? How do you want to be in a relationship? Even if you're not in a relationship. You can still envision that and then that's what you do now. I understand that's easier said than done. And I do think for a lot of us, we do have to do a little bit of inner work so that we can show up vulnerably so we can ask for our boundaries or agreements or needs or whatever that is. So there is definitely some inner work involved for sure. But, you know, I had, I had a friend the other day who just started dating someone and she texted me and she sent me the screenshot of like all of these. Like she sent me a screenshot of a screenshot that her friend had sent her of like all of these rules, like awesome. You started dating someone. Here's what to do to not mess it up. Oh my God. And I like read through like the first three things. And I was just like, I already started getting anxiety and then she texts. She was like, you don't like buy into this stuff, do you? And I was like, oh my God, no, no, no. And it's funny because like, sometimes I feel like everyone already knows this stuff. You know, why do I do this work? Everyone knows the stuff. And then I get a text like this from my friend. And I'm like, no, not everyone knows this stuff. Now what's a cute keep sharing. This really important message. So I know I'm kind of meandering, but your, your story just brought up really, just a lot of things for me, because I think that there is this fallacy that we have to get through these rules and get through all of these like stages and the so-called dating process to then be able to get into the relationship. That we want or that you want. And I think that's false. Monica: Right? One thing that just came up for me is like, I remember, okay, so let's face it too. This is The Revelation project. So the only time things really start to get revealed, right. Is when shit gets real. And the, when you, when you're done playing the games, which for me is like right away. Like I hate playing games. I don't even like parties with small talk because like, I just want to, like, I can't breathe. Right. Because I feel like, I don't know. It just, it feels like you know, of this, like putting on the mask or. Forcing the smile when inside I'm just filled with anxiety as I always am in a, in a big group of people. And there's some way that unless I can be really grounded and honest or just show up and be. Self-improving in wherever I am in that moment. Like, I'm usually not going to have a good time in a situation like that. Like, I really love it when things get deep. And when things get a little gritty, because that's when I get to see who is the person that I'm in relationship with, who are they really? Because there's this way that we can continue to fool ourselves and continue to be in relationship with somebody. Until kind of the masks come off. And then when you see what you're really dealing with, you're like, holy shit, I've invested all this time and energy and I've been on my quote unquote, best behavior, you know, in order to like end up with. Now somebody who's actually not who they said they were. And by the way, if they're not who they said they were, then I'm obviously not who I said I was. Right. Because I've waited that long to kind of allow a dynamic or, you know, to bring up a dynamic. So I think it's good for us to kind of push sometimes those boundaries and get really clear or really open about what we're wanting. What, even our requirements, not, not to scare somebody, but to just come from a place of honesty and have a conversation from the heart with somebody. And I do this even with girlfriends, right? It's not just men, it's girlfriends that I truly want to deepen my understanding of who they are so that I know how far we can travel together. Veronica: Yeah. I think just to give like one super tangible example of how this could look, you know, I know there's like a lot of like Instagram, all things about be yourself or be vulnerable when you date. And you're like, okay, great. What does that mean though? One really simple thing is sometimes I think sometimes that can get misinterpreted too. Like, oh my God. I have to tell this person, all these private things about me. And I know some people. No big deal. They don't care. There's a share everything. And some people are like, well, I don't want to tell people about, you know, all the things from my past. Yeah. I don't know what this person is, but sharing all of your skeletons or past stories or relationships or everyone to call it. Yeah. That certainly is vulnerable. It's a form of vulnerability, but it's not the kind of vulnerability that at least I'm necessarily talking about, especially early on. Right. When you're dating someone, it could just be simple as like, let's say you met someone online and you've been kind of messaging back and forth and you finally. I have a date scheduled. And so you show up, you see the person, it could just be something along the lines of like, I'm really excited about meeting you been looking forward to this. I've been enjoying getting to know you really vulnerable because you're sharing how you feel in that moment. And that can lower the wall to actually have like a real human conversation because it signals the other person like, okay, cool. It's safe to lower my wall too. So something like a simple as, as that can be. Super tangible example of, of what we're talking about here. I love that. Yeah. And, oh gosh, there is one of the things that I was going to say was you're talking in a totally. I don't know it'll Monica: Well, it's, it's what comes up for me is like that the place where the masks come off. Right. And, and you, you do, I think there comes a point in a relationship where it's just so revealing like that, especially when it comes to. An issue, right? Like a real issue where the two people feel different or there's conflict that comes into play. Right. And it's like, I find that so many people are conflict avoidant, but there's a way that I think it's such a disguised gift because that's where we kind of get to really recover with each other and, and deepen our intimacy and our understanding of one another. And I wondered if you could say something about. Veronica: Yeah. So one thing that I always tell people is 90% of the work when it comes to attracting and then growing and deepening, your ideal relationship comes before you ever even go on the first date. It comes from again, like doing the inner child, work, understanding your limiting beliefs and, um, healing and shifting your perspective and the stories you tell you about yourself and how. Feel love and worthy and all that kind of stuff. 90% of that happens before you ever go on the date and, you know, often get a question, some clients or people in my DMS or whatever, like, okay, I have a date tonight. Like what do I do? Like, I don't want to mess it up. This guy's really cool. Or boom amnd I am like, honestly, at this point you can't mess it up. All you can do is just have an intention to be curious, meaning. What can you learn about this other person? Because this person is a human and they've had a whole lifetime of experiences and perspective. So like what do they have to share? What stories do they have to tell? So be curious and have fun. And that's. And what I also like about being curious and having fun is that it forces you to be in the present moment. Try having fun when you're not being present. I mean, you can't really do it, right. Like, think about like little toddlers or kids playing at the playground or, um, like, okay. When I take my dog to the dog park and like, he is just having so much freaking fun, he is just going crazy chasing the ball. She has two other dogs getting chased. And when we're trying to go, like we have, it's almost like I have to like snap him back, like, come on. We have to go, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's actually quite a process. Right. And the same thing with the kids. So when, when you have an intention of being curious and having fun, that's all you can do. Nothing you can do to mess it up, you know, aside from like truly egregious things. But I don't think that's really the case for anyone listening to this episode or this podcast, but you can't mess it up. If you sharing how you feel is like too much, or you saying that you had a fun time and would like to see the person again, it's too much. If you ask them for what you need, you know, at like this table, actually there's a breeze here. So would you mind moving to this table? Like that kind of stuff? If that's too much, then this person was never, ever going to be able to have the relationship that you want ever. There was nothing you can do to change that. And so it's just better to know that sooner rather than later, to save so much time, so much energy. So if you're not really thrilled with who you're attracting or the kind of relationships that you're finding yourself in, take a pause and really do some of this inner work and the inner child work that I'm talking about. And that will shift things for you a lot. And then, you know, sometimes yeah, there might be a little bit of a learning curve. Like if you didn't experience or see a healthy relationship from your parents or another set of adults, you might just need to learn the basics of clear communication and boundary setting. But like, this is not rocket science. Like it's really not that hard. Monica: It's not rocket science and it's also not necessarily. Going back to what you said, common knowledge, because yeah, like you said, there's so many, there's so many people I know that have, that have not been taught those basic skills. And I think that they're almost afraid to ask, you know, like, so I'm wondering too Veronica, if you can, how would somebody go about starting to work with their inner child? Like, what do you say to that? Veronica: You know, so. The first thing is just to notice the, either the main belief you have about yourself in relationships or in your love life. So let's say a core belief that drives a lot of your love life is everybody leaves me, or maybe a core belief you have is relationships are just so exhausting. It takes so much energy. Right. Or if it's not a core belief, it can be a core feeling like you feel like when you're dating, you just need to get the other person to like you back to feel good enough. Even if you don't even really like the person that much, but you still need that validation. So whatever the core feeling, whatever the core belief is, or the core story that you tell yourself, as it relates to your love life, you just kind of sit with that for a second. You just notice what that feels like in your body. Where do you feel it? Do you feel in your belly? Do you feel it in your chest, your throat, your head, your whim space somewhere else? And then you just ask yourself. When have I felt like this before, or what does this remind me of? Or if you're working more with like a story or a belief it's like, who told me that before? And so then he began to connect the dots. Oh, well this kind of belief that I carry around that relationships are a burden kind of reminds me of growing up because we just, I just felt like. Everything revolved around my dad's temper. I noticed my mom, you know, always trying to please him. I was always walking on eggshells because I didn't want to set him off. I couldn't ask for anything. I couldn't say what I wanted or what I felt or what I thought. And I had to just take care of his needs just so that he wouldn't explode well with. Working through that without healing, that that could very well create a belief that I can create any number of beliefs, but one belief could be relationships or, or even specifically you could develop that kind of belief specifically towards men, if it was someone like your father, would that kind of. It could be like relationships with men are exhausting or they're a burden, or I can't be myself or who I am, you know, with, with men or whatever, or it could just be with people in general, intimate relationships necessarily have to only be with men. So that's where you start. It's just what I call connecting the dots. It's understanding why you feel the way you feel, why you think the way you think, or why you believe what you believe and understand and just seeing, okay. When did this happen before? And for some people who. I have experienced an acute trauma, like a divorce or death, or like any kind of earth shattering life changing experience. It might feel a little bit more obvious and you might be like, oh, well obviously this goes back to whatever for folks who were like, well, like my childhood was, was good. Like, you know, whatever, you know, my parents are dead, what they could, they're busy. They have a bunch of kids and bubbles. That doesn't necessarily, or that doesn't mean that this doesn't apply to you. I believe that this applies to all of us. So as long as you are human and so long as you were raised by humans, which I'm pretty sure it's everybody, then you're raised by imperfect beings because that's how we are as, as humans. That's part of us being divine beings, having a human experience. And so. With that being true, there is going to be times when parents project their stuff onto you when they don't deal with their emotions well, or healthfully or maturely. And so when you're a five-year old and dad has a temper, when you're a, five-year-old your parents, aren't a pedestal, you know, because they're basically gods because they know everything and they can do everything and they've kept you alive. And so they're unlike this divine, like. And that's not bad or a normal, that's very normal in terms of our development and how we relate to our parents. But the problem is with that, when that does happen and then they project, and they're not able to have a conversation about what just happened, then the five-year old or whatever age. Make that mean, oh, well, something's wrong with me because my dad just said this about me or just exploded, you know, all and whatever, his anger, all over all over me. And so you don't have any other frame of reference. You don't have this ability. Most likely as a five-year-old to be like, oh, well this is just my dad. Not dealing with his own stuff in a healthy way, Monica: My own inner child stuff. Veronica: Right. Exactly. If I feel doesn't and so they make it, they make it about themselves. And again, that's on normal. There's nothing wrong, even through things bad, but we do have to then. Deconstruct that as an adult. So you can begin to tell yourself a new story. Now I will say one thing that happens quite often is, well, let's say like that was the five-year-old's experience. That's the inner child we're working with. And then the adult self version of that child and her child might be like, Yeah, my dad was totally an asshole. He had this temper. Um, but I totally understand, you know, he was really stressed. He was working a lot of hours. My mom wasn't working, we had a lot of kids had a lot on his plate. You might be able to rationalize why he did what he did and you might think, yeah, so I'm good. I don't need to work through that. Like I understand. And that might be true. And I think that is sometimes can be part of the healing process. Kind of just seeing your parents is, you know, humans rather than divine like beings, Monica: But there's a way that that's a little bit of a bypass. Veronica: It's a hundred percent of bypass. Monica: Cause I'm like, because that is, so that is so the way I feel, you know, it's, it's like when people say, well, that's just the way I am or, you know, it's, it's like, okay. Yes. And yeah, there's so much that gets revealed when we actually, and I think, you know, what's coming up is that it does take a certain amount of courage to actually, because now what we're talking about is shadow. Yes. Yes. Yes. And so, you know, people get really nervous, but I want to go back to what you said before, because it was so beautiful. It's kind of like how we get out there in the dating world. I want to turn that back on ourselves and say like, what is it like to date ourselves and get curious about ourselves. And go deeper and kind of take it slowly, intimately, right. Getting more and more intimate into ourselves so that we can kind of see, like, what's like, what's here. Like why, why do I get triggered? Or can I get curious and compassionate with myself around why I act that way? Because you know, the two words that you used before were acceptance and trust. And I often. Say, or, or it comes back to me because it's, it's kind of this universal truth that I have to continually remember that unless I have acceptance and trust over here, how am I going to have it out there? Veronica: Totally, totally. So really, and truly, and our child. At the end of the day, all comes down to how you relate to yourself. So I always tell listeners of my podcast and clients and whatnot, you can do every single assignment and use every single tool I ever give you times a hundred times, a thousand times infinity. But if you still treat yourself like crap, then what you're doing is going to have a very blunt. Effect because here, let me, let me give you an example. So let's say like, I don't know, you are dating someone and you just kind of beat yourself up over it. You're like, oh God, how did I find this kind of person again? Why am I in the same kind of relationship? And you can talk crap about yourself that you're such an idiot. You're so dumb. You're so naive. Like you can't do this, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like you can do that. It's probably not going to get you to where you want, but that's certainly is an option. Or, and, and also I would say. There's probably a good chance that that's internalized from someone that probably talked to you like that. Maybe not around dating, but maybe like around your grades or your body or something else. Right. So it's probably internalized from something else. So that's where inner child work comes in because now it's not just that you have to identify. Where the pattern started or why you believe or what you do, what you, you know, all that kind of stuff, the origin of all that. But now you have to be that adult in the room that maybe wasn't quite there. So like if dad was, you know, just spilling all of his anger all over you and not emotionally regulating in a healthy way, then inner child work is really about being that adult in the room, removing the inner child from the, from the room. I'm so sorry, sweetheart. You don't deserve this. This is your dad acting out he's misbehaving and it's not fair and it sucks and whatever you're feeling, whatever you're needing, I'm here, I'm here with you. So that's basically talking to yourself in a very compassionate way, and you have to do that in present time. Because again, like if you're beating yourself up over some mistake you might've made, then you're probably again talking to yourself, possibly like your dad talked to you or another adult versus. Oh, sweetheart. I know we got back into the same pattern again, and that really sucks. It's really hard, but it's also really hard to change patterns. You know, this goes back a really long time when you're doing a really good job. And even if we just make incremental improvements every time, like that's enough, you're already are enough. You don't have to prove anything to anyone. You know what I mean? And so when we can talk to ourselves like that, then it's much easier. Yeah. To be in relationship with ourselves, then be in relationship with others and just have a healthier kind of energy. If you're constantly like beating herself up and doing this and doing that, then like we had to teach people how to treat us and we teach people that that's okay. Or it's acceptable when really it's not. Okay. And it's, and it's not accepted. And, and, and really like whatever you want from your relationship, from your future or your ideal partner, you have to be able to do that. With yourself. Sometimes we buy into this fallacy and I think this is kind of patriarchal in nature that we get things from the partner, from the relationship, like that's how we get our security, get our happiness, get our, whatever, Monica: Or that someone else completes us. Like we're not whole and complete on our own, which, you know yes. That. You know, eh, I harmful myth because it keeps us in a place of, you know, searching for the one who completes us. And we are whole in, into ourselves. We are creative, resourceful, and whole. And when we come from that place, we actually attract someone else who is also creative, resourceful, and whole. And what's beautiful about that is that as your relationship with each other matures, you like in my relationship, one of the beautiful things about my relationship is we don't always need to be with each other 24 7. It's like we. We know that we are whole and complete onto ourselves and that I can go off and do something and learn something and come back to the relationship and enrich the relationship and make the relationship that much better for having gone and taken care of myself. And continued to nourish myself. So I know that we're almost at time Veronica, but I've loved this conversation. And I feel like as usual, we've just scratched the various surface. Like there's so much more. And I also wanted to point to the fact that you talk about women even being emotionally unavailable. And we had talked about kind of bypassing and that's one symptom. Being emotionally unavailable, but I've also seen so many women deflect that there's an issue at all. Or, you know, I've seen them even deflect. Like if you give them a compliment, it's like, there's all kinds of like deflection and stuff going on. These are symptoms where you want to start kind of looking at like, am I an emotionally available person or do I kind of like take off the minute that like, I feel uncomfortable. Veronica: Yeah. So, I mean, I think that there's a stereotype of the emotionally unavailable guy he's aloof, he's noncommittal. Doesn't like to talk about emotions. And so I think it is seeing, you know, for heterosexual people at the seen as like a problem that men are or whatever, and. Again, I think this is still just like a product of the patriarchy. I mean, unfortunately I do think boys are raised to be like that. And then of course they become men. Right. And they're so like that. But I also think that there are ways in which women are emotionally unavailable. They're not as stereotypical. And so like, I think you said the phrase before they can be hiding in plain sight. So I think basically playing into any of the dating. Ultimately makes you emotionally unavailable. If you're not going to share how you feel with someone, because the guy supposed to do that, or if you're waiting three hours to text back or whatever the rule is or anything like that, then ultimately you're at least trying to put yourself in a place where you can't be hurt. You can't be rejected and that's ultimately not being emotionally unavailable. Vulnerability is all about potentially being rejected. That's kind of a part of the deal. Monica: And it's also what I call the trance of unworthiness is when we play those games, when we don't believe in our own enoughness that we actually tend to seek the validation out there or numb from our own feelings. Those are all symptoms of the trance.. Veronica: Totally. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So I think that one of the best things that you can do to attract more emotionally available partners is to look at your own ways that you might be emotionally unavailable people, pleasing, not setting boundaries, being the yes person, not sharing how you feel. All those kinds of things are actually. That you're emotionally unavailable because you're trying to let something or someone else make you feel how you want to feel. Do you know what I mean? And so even when I was dating and I really wanted to be in a relationship, like I desperately wanted to be in a relationship, wanting a relationship and being emotionally available for the relationship are not the same things. You know, when I shared a little bit about my story, like, yes, I wanted to be in a relationship, but I also shared that, like, I didn't really know how to. Be emotive and express emotion and share and connect with someone in a deeper way. And so I kind of just connected like, well, okay, we're going to have sex and that will be intimate. And then we'll be emotionally connected. Nope, no. So, and so I was really mostly unavailable now. It was not in the main male stereotypical way, but I certainly was emotionally unavailable and it wasn't until I became clear and the ways. I was unavailable, you know, until, you know, was when things started changing. The good news is that I think of emotionally or I think of emotional availability as like a spectrum. So like zero being like 0% emotionally available, a hundred being a hundred percent emotionally unavailable. I don't. So it's not like something you are or are not. I also don't think you have to be nor is it probably even possible to be a hundred percent emotionally available. I think maybe. 70 80% range is, is good. Really good. And this is where I get into. Also kind of why it's so important to really focus on the inner work and then less. So unlike the tactics behind dating, because if you're a 0% emotionally available and you go on a hundred dates, well, a hundred times a year, I was still zero. So you're probably not going to have a lot of fruit, you know, from your, from your efforts. And that's just very easy from there to be bitter jaded point the finger. Be exhausted burnout, all of those kinds of things. But if you can slowly get that higher and higher to, you know, maybe that 70%, 80% range, then. A lot of the dates you go on, you know, if you think about it, you want a hundred dates, times 70%, 80%, well, a good 70 to 80% of those dates might actually be able to lead somewhere. Right. And you're probably going to feel a lot more fruits of your labor and you also probably want to have to go on a hundred dates either, which is the best news I think so that's, that's how. Like to, you know, to, to think about this whole, whole thing around emotional availability and dating all that stuff. Monica: Yeah. And I just, I just had my own kind of revelation as I was sitting here listening to you because my husband taught me, like I was somebody who was super, emotionally unavailable in ways when. Was about being intimate right. And vulnerable with a man because, and he, he has taught me, which, you know, it goes so against the stereotype. You know, I often he's always teaching me what it is to connect at that level. And it's, it's such a gift. Like when you find somebody. Who can really meet you where you are, and also love you unconditionally. And kind of, I've just benefited so much in my relationship with him, as I've learned how to love myself, I've also learned how to be more available and more intimate because my childhood trauma really had like, shut that down, you know? Like, and so I'm just sharing this because it's very much part of my story. This. This emotional unavailability. So Veronica, how would you, you know, direct our listeners to really learn more about you? You've of course, got your incredible podcasts so that they can hear all kinds of topics around different relationship subjects. So for sure, tell them where to go, but anything else that you want to offer before we, before we go. Veronica: Yeah. So, um, I do have an emotional availability assessment and it's kind of like one of those magazine quizzes, like you just put a number and then you add up all the numbers at the end and it, it kind of gives you an idea of like, okay, how emotionally available am I? And then depending on your score, I've got some tips and tools and also some resources for you to focus on that will help you to become more open for the relationship you want emotionally. Mentally. And then I have, oh, and you can get that@veronicagrant.com forward slash assessment. And then I have a podcast wherever you're listening to this one. Most likely my podcast is there too. It's called The Love Life Connection. And there on the show I bring on clients and also community members, listeners of the show to coach them through. Situationship a question going on in their love life. And it's also the lens of inner child work. So like, if you're kind of like, all right, inner child work, sounds interesting. Not sure how it'll like help me on Tinder then you'll definitely wanna listen to some of those episodes cause can kind of help you see what inner child work can really help you do and create in your love life. Monica: I love that. I'm going to go take the quiz so I can find out how far along I've come. Awesome. Thank you so much first for being here and thank you for your work in the world. Veronica. It's been such a fun conversation and I can't wait. We're going to do this again on your podcast soon. Yeah. So, um, for our listeners, I'll be sure to, of course put the link to the quiz and how else you can connect with Veronica. And until next time more to be revealed, we hope you enjoyed this episode. Information, please visit us@jointherevelation.com and be sure to download our free gift, subscribe to our mailing list or leave us a review on iTunes. We thank you for your generous listening and as always more to be revealed.