Monica - 0:0:2 Welcome to the Revelation Project podcast. I'm Monica Rogers, and this podcast is intended to disrupt the trance of unworthiness and to guide women to remember and reveal the truth of who we are. We say that life is a revelation project and what gets revealed gets healed. Monica - 0:0:26 Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Revelation Project Podcast, ADIs, I mean, just the word actually makes me light up, and today's subject is all about aphrodisiacs and many other things. But I am so, so happy to introduce you to Kimberly Gallagher. But before I welcome her, I wanna give you a little bit of background. Kimberly is the author of Aphrodisiac, the Herbal Path to Healthy Sexual Fulfillment and Vital Living. She is an herbalist who's been working with healing plants for over 20 years, and she's the co-founder with her husband, John Gallagher, of Learning Herbs, one of the most respected online herbal education websites. She's the creator of the Wildcraft board game, which has sold more than a hundred thousand copies worldwide, and she's the author of Herb Ferry's Children's Books, Kimber, Kimberly and John have two grownup children and are on their third decade of marriage. For many years, Kimberly had been actively exploring healthy sexuality and the power of erotic energy as source energy for creative vital living. She is an ordained minister at Trail of Beauty, where Sacred sensuality is at the heart of her work. Please join me in welcoming Kimberly Gallagher. Hi, Kim. Kimberly - 0:2:18 Hi. Thank you so much, Monica. It's a pleasure to be here with you today. Monica - 0:2:22 What a subject, Kimberly - 0:2:25 , what a subject. Monica - 0:2:26 Right. I'm like, I get to do an interview today on Aphrodisiacs, and I will have to like practice saying it, but I love, I just love this whole subject because I think every time we eat oysters, my husband will be like, why don't you have some more, you know, Kimberly - 0:2:43 . Right, right. Monica - 0:2:45 But of course, there's aphrodisiacs all over the place in nature, and I think until I picked up your book, I didn't really know that. Kimberly - 0:2:54 Hmm. Beautiful. Yes. Monica - 0:2:57 So, I mean, I would love to just start with how this subject ended up enchanting you, because I do sometimes feel like we stumble upon, you know, some of these things through our own unbecoming is what I'll call it, where we Right. Get curious about some things that, you know, we maybe have never allowed ourself to dive more deeply into. So I'd love to hear, you know, just how that all began for you. Kimberly - 0:3:31 Oh, thank you for that question. Yeah. I, I traced the beginning of this interest of mine back to this time when my kids were young, and I was a homeschooling mom, and, uh, my kids are five years apart, so they were little, and I was, you know, trying to homeschool the older one and care for the younger one and care for the house. And John and I were just getting learning herbs up and running. So there was all this energy going out, you know, to the kids and the house and the business. And, you know, during that time, my own needs and desires just kind of took a backseat, and I was really feeling less and less vital, less and less confident, just kind of, you know, in this, this doing, doing, doing, giving, giving, giving mode. And then there was this moment where I started circling and meeting with my girlfriends, and we started talking about our early sexual experiences and started reading books about sexuality and about our bodies. Kimberly - 0:4:38 And we kind of just engaged the energy around our sexuality. And it was such a beautiful, like, reclaiming of my own energy and my own, um, power, really. And so I noticed like how important this journey of sexual empowerment is for people. And, you know, as I, as I delved more into this topic, I started to realize just how much shame and repression and trauma there is around sexuality in our culture. And I felt like, wow, there's so much healing that needs to happen here. And when we are healing the, in this area of our lives, like, I think it's a very core level healing. And that healing then affects everything in our lives, right? It affects our confidence, our ability to share ourselves with the world. It, it affects, you know, how much I can give to my children when I'm filled up sexually. Kimberly - 0:5:44 I have so much more to give. And so as an herbalist, I'm always looking for how can the herbs help to support us in our lives? And they are such magical beings that just have so much to offer, and they, they bring so much, you know, in all different areas of health. And I thought, well, how could the herb support us in healing around our sexuality? And that became such a compelling question for me to, you know, bring by herbal knowledge to this, this area of sexual empowerment that had made such a difference for me. And to be able to share that with other women and, and men as well, you know? Monica - 0:6:27 Yeah. I mean, I, I do. And there's, there's actually so many things that you said, I'm like furiously writing them down so I don't forget to go back and ask you. But, so I love that you called it like a core healing, because there's that dual meaning with core. And I think at our very core, we are these sexual, sensual beings. Mm-hmm. , and it's the first place so many of us are taught to shut down and to disconnect from, or that is distorted in some way. And so it leads me to the question of, as you were doing your research and you started recognizing all of the shame, repression, and trauma, did you bump up against your own and did your own upbringing kind of need to come into this healing? And were you, or were you one of those rare women, you know, that didn't, was unscathed in that way? Kimberly - 0:7:38 Oh my goodness. I don't think any of us in this culture like come out unscathed, Monica - 0:7:43 . Okay. I love that you said that too, Kimberly - 0:7:46 . I did have a mother who was pretty special in her desire to communicate with us about our sexuality. You know, she read books with us as kids and talked about our bodies, talked about menstruation. And I grew up with a definite love for my body, um, which I think I'm really grateful for. Cause I think a lot of women have a lot more, you know, shame or just, you know, negative feelings about their body. So I think my mom gifted me with a lot of beautiful pieces. And at the same time, you know, she was, she actually got pregnant really early. She got pregnant at 20 and wasn't able to go to college because she was, stayed home and raise the kids. And so one of her main messages was, you know, if you're going to be sexually active, be sure you use birth control. Kimberly - 0:8:41 You know? And so there was this sense that maybe I would be sexually active early, but I needed to use birth. You know, it just was very confusing. Like it wasn't like, yeah, it was just not such such clear messaging, right? There was this messaging about it's okay to be sexual, but it's not okay to be sexual. It was challenging to negotiate as a teenager, like, do I want to engage in this way? How soon do I wanna engage in this way? It's definitely, you know, was connected with the feeling of, of not wanting to be alone in the world. Uh, my dad also, you know, then my parents got divorced, my dad left. So there was a feeling of like wanting that male figure in my life and that, you know, sex somehow connected you to another person. So, you know, there's, there's layers for everybody of how we, you know, depending on what our parents' experience was, what they taught us. And then, you know, we just live in a culture of shame around sexuality mm-hmm. , um, and uncomfortableness, you know, there's almost more comfort, like I think about movies, and there's almost more comfort for us in letting our kids watch something violent mm-hmm. than watch something sexual , you know? Monica - 0:10:2 Yeah. That's such a great point. It's, and I was having this, you know, almost like a revelation as you were speaking, that it's also something that we think, you know, we just have to have the one conversation with our kids, or say the one thing. And it's such an ongoing conversation, and it's such an important conversation that gets stepped over in so many ways. And just the very fact that we have had the talk, right. or whatever it is, like that one time, you know, it's like when we think about how we just are as learners and how, how curious we are about everything is children, and that that becomes kind of this no-fly zone at a very early age. And so mm-hmm. , it also occurs to me as like just this natural wonder, this proper astonishment that is squashed from really the moment I feel like, you know, we turn like six, you know, or five or six, and that's the time we're really just getting started, you know, to ask, you know, some of these bigger questions and to, you know, explore our bodies and to, and it's like that whole period of time we're kind of like, then, like a teabag. Monica - 0:11:43 We start kind of being steeped in shame, and it's this very, it's like in the very air, you know, that we, we breathe. And so it's like, I loved what you were saying earlier, it's like, it's, there's so many layers, right? There's so many layers, there's so many confusing messages, and we're certainly most of us not given that kind of attention time or space to really have those needs. Matt, all of the question asking and having that be allowed anytime, like, so it, it really is part of this conditioning that I often point to that also contributes to this trance of unworthiness, I feel like so many women are in. And I think men are deeply impacted by this too, in different ways. And so also I find that there's this complete paradox as well about how men are taught about it and how women are taught about it. And so how the heck we ever end up having a successful, integrated, mature relationship with others is a frigging miracle. Kimberly - 0:13:7 It really, it really is. That was one of the things as I was working on writing the book, was this question of like, what would healthy sexuality even look like? Mm-hmm. You know, because we live in such a culture of unhealthy sexuality, we're so far from that, how would that even manifest? What would it feel like? What would it look like? And I, I started to, you know, get some ideas about healthy sexuality as I was working on it. And, you know, one of the pieces I think is that, you know, for he, for sexuality to be healthy is there's this underlying level of foundation of health in our bodies, you know, um, that our organs are functioning properly, that we're, that we're feeling alive and vital, you know? So there's like social, there's physical, there's emotional health, you know, like all of that underlies healthy sexuality. Kimberly - 0:14:6 Um, we often, I think, think of it as this separate thing, you know, but it's really tied into our whole foundation of health. And then there's a piece, I think, with healthy sexuality that has to do with authenticity. Like us coming into relationship as our authentic selves. And so many of us are masked in our, relating with each other. You know, we're trying to impress someone or, you know, show up sexually looking a certain way, or, you know, being able to provide the right kind of pleasure for our partner. So this idea of being able to come into relationship just as who we are and having that be the foundation of our relationship. Um, and then I think some other pieces are like being attuned to our partner and their needs and desires. And the, the biggest part of that is, is consent. You know, like that's the really important thing for sex sexuality to be healthy, is that everything that's happening is happening, um, with mutual consent, and that both parties are actually a full yes to what's happening. Kimberly - 0:15:19 Mm-hmm. . And, and then I think the other piece of, um, healthy sexuality would be that we would have pride in our sexuality. Yeah. You know, instead of shame, like, it would be the opposite. We'd be walking around like, I am a sexual being, and I love this part of myself. I love this part of my life. You know, like, we would be feeling excited that this was part of our nature, rather than like, oh, I, I'm having these sexual feelings and I don't really know exactly what to do with them. And, you know, I don't want anyone to, to know that I'm turned on, or, you know, whatever it is, there's this, this layer of shame. You know, I don't wanna attract unwanted energy by being proud of my sexuality. Right. I might, I might put myself in danger by being proud of my sexuality. Kimberly - 0:16:12 And at the same time, like this energy, the sexual energy is what created all of us. We came from a sexual act. Like none of us would be here without the fact that humans are sexual creatures. Right. It's that sexual, erotic energy that creates life. And, you know, it's that energy that fuels life. So, you know, I really look at sexual energy as this source of energy, source of creativity for us. And when we cut ourselves off from it with shame, we are cutting ourselves off from, from life force. So I, yeah. I just think it's such an important area of our lives to, to look at, even though it can be super uncomfortable in certain ways. Monica - 0:17:4 Yeah. Well, it can be. And I guess, you know, I wanna go back to, I wanna go back to what you were talking about earlier, because it, I think it's so many women's experience that, you know, we get busy with life whether you're a mother or not, and at some point, our own needs and desires take a backseat as you so plainly stated it. Yeah. And yet that, and that's when that vitality, that true creative energy that I don't even know, you know, that that source energy that kind of keeps us feeling alive and potent and filled with potential and possibility just kind of goes dormant and we lose ourselves. And so it all makes sense when you think about this also this kind of disconnection from our core. For many of us, that might have happened gradually for some of the, for some of us it happened very suddenly. It might have happened due to trauma, or it might have, right? Like, there's so many different ways that it happens, but it's kind of a universal story for so many women. And so I'd love to go back to just kind of where you are and how you, where you were and how you started to discover and allow yourself to explore and discover and then engage aphrodisiacs and like how that story happened. Kimberly - 0:18:56 Yeah. So I think that, you know, this, this way that we are in our culture where we can like put our desires in the backseat and be in this doing mode. That that really is the time when we most need this energy, you know? And it's the time when we disconnect from it. So I think that, you know, as we start to create more opportunities for ourself to be in our pleasure and to fill ourselves up, that that is the energy that we need in order to do the things that we wanna do. And so, yeah, if I trace like my own personal journey, it really, you know, part of what was so important for me was having the support of my girlfriends. You know, we were, we were reading some books together and having like a little discussion group and like, um, started sharing like, what were your early sexual experiences and how was that for you in your body? Kimberly - 0:20:2 And, um, and what have you explored since? And like suddenly, you know, taking this, this topic that had kind of been in a closet, you know, like, that's not something that I had talked with people about before mm-hmm. mm-hmm. . And, you know, we opened the doors, you know, opened my door's box a little bit and started being like, oh, wow, you had that experience. That's really interesting. You know, and like mm-hmm. , oh, you can do that with your body, you know? And I started to recognize like, how little I actually knew about my own body, which was so sad to me. You know, here, we, we dwell in these like magnificent bodies through our lives, and yet, yet we don't know the full capacity for pleasure that we have. Mm-hmm. . So, you know, I started, you know, looking at online tantra classes or, you know, what is tantra ? Kimberly - 0:21:0 There's, there's so many questions that come in, you know, you start to learn about, you know, different breathing techniques or different ways you can touch yourself. And, you know, as you start to reach for just one experience like that, then you, you feel it right away. I mean, the energy comes in and then it's like, Ooh, I want more of that. You know? So then you start to go to the next one, and it's, it's kind of this journey, if you let the flow happen, that just takes you on it on its own, you know, because you, you notice what a difference it makes in your life, and you start to want to add more of it so that you have more of that source energy to bring to everything that you're doing. Monica - 0:21:48 Yes. I, and you said two things, and I wanna kind of circle back. So one is the attention that I heard that you started to put on this subject, that just the very fact that you started paying attention is what started to have you notice when it was present and when it wasn't. And mm-hmm. Monica - 0:22:14 . Then the other word that you said that I loved is like allowing, because there's this, you know, lie that we have to do all these things to create or access or, and the truth is that this energy is available to us all the time. It's like, it's like allowing it to, to like inform us that there's this reciprocal relationship that we always have available to us with the energies of the world. And it's like we have this way in our culture of invalidating it because we can't see it, because we can't measure it, because we can't, you know, figure it all out. And that's the beautiful part of this precious life, you know, is that we are in a dance constantly with this mystery. And like, we know enough to know that, you know, for example, sex is how we all got here, the big bang, you know, the other big bang. Monica - 0:23:33 And that there's this very potent, uh, I think about all of the ways we cast spells or become entranced or enchanted, like these are actually all very, you know, we put them in fairy tales, but they're actually very much a part of this energy that you speak of, that there's a way that we can allow, draw, use, plug into, right? Like, there are all these other ways that we can be with this energy that is so nourishing, that is so life-giving that is so healing. And yet it seems to be the last place we think of accessing. Kimberly - 0:24:25 Right? Right. Yeah. In my book, I have all kinds of exercises all the way through it to bring a flow of this energy into your life. So how can you start to cultivate a flow of that energy so that you can continually be filled up in this way? And I think some of the keys to that are just really slowing down. You know, we're so quick in our lives and we're so up in our heads, so how can we slow down to really appreciate the sensual of life, you know, in anything that we're doing. Like, you know, this morning I got up and, and I'm looking out my window at the sunrise. And just, you know, giving yourself those moments to sit and just really be in awe of the beauty of that morning sky with those colors, you know, lighting up the clouds is essential experience. Monica - 0:25:25 And I would say, you know, like, even as, cuz I feel like now we're venturing into this territory, which is such a great transition, but even that becomes this sensu way of connecting, like, that can even be an aphrodisiac. Right? It's like, exactly. Kimberly - 0:25:43 Right. Exactly. Monica - 0:25:44 Ma arose, it's like this, it's the, the presenting of yourself with another. Kimberly - 0:25:54 Yeah. Monica - 0:25:55 And so much of these elements of life, these also sentient beings, the, you know, the birds, the bees, the flowers, the, the herbs, the plants, the tastes, the smells, the touch, you know? Mm-hmm. , these things are in the most natural sense are birthright, you know, like to be in relatedness and relationship to the beauty that is surrounding us. And of course, there are many mystics and poets that get off on literally just the natural world, right. In just its beauty. Yes. So, yeah. So as we enter into this conversation about aphrodisiacs, you know, I love just pointing that out, like how you even started your mourning. Kimberly - 0:26:57 Yes. Yeah. And I talk in the book about like, creating aphrodisiac experiences, right? And that's really about being intentional, slowing down, and really being in your senses, bringing your full attention to whatever it is that you're doing. So, you know, there's this recipe for this chocolate tort in the book that is so incredibly delicious. And, you know, like eating that tort, right? You're in, you're putting this cacao into your body, which, you know, can have this really heart opening effect. It can energize us. And, and it just really sets, uh, a mood for connection. And at the same time, like even before you get to that point where you're putting the cacao into your body, like you can make the making of this tort into an aphrodisiac experience by, you know, really shutting off your cell phone, you know, putting away distractions. You know, often we, we cook in the midst of doing 10 other things, you know, but instead, like really saying, I'm gonna make this tort now, and like, I'm gonna turn myself on while I make this tort. You know, I'm gonna like, smell the chocolate and the coconut, um, milk, and I'm gonna, you know, feel the chocolate and the cardamom, and I'm gonna, you know, really enjoy the, the sensuality of stirring these ingredients together. You know, it's beautiful. The making of the tor, you know, Kim, Monica - 0:28:33 Kimberly, I'm getting all turned on over here, Kimberly - 0:28:36 . And then there's like, it has to set overnight, right? Wait for it right away. Oh my God. There's so much in our culture about like this instant gratification, you know, but then we miss the whole joy of anticipation. Yeah. Like, anticipation can be such a beautiful aphrodisiac, you know, you, you get to think about, oh my gosh, tomorrow I'm gonna take that torn out and I'm going to get to slice it and, you know, oh, let that chocolate melt in my mouth, you know, like, or I'm going to bring it to the dinner with my lover, you know, and I can't wait for him to get to taste it. And for us to, you know, get to experience, you know, the love that I put into it. I, I really, you know, suggest that people set an intention when they're making an aphrodisiac treat for themselves, or to share with a lover, you know, and put that in as an ingredient, you know? Yes. Like, I really want us to have this magical night of deep connected love making, you know, Yes. Intention to Yes. With that intention, right? So it's really about slowing down. It's about, you know, bringing your full attention and your intention to what you're doing, and that's really what creates life as an aphrodisia Monica - 0:29:58 . Well, and I, I'm just, I'm just immediately brought back to that movie Chuck a lot. Kimberly - 0:30:3 Right? I love that movie, Monica - 0:30:5 . I love that movie. It was like, so brilliant. But also Kimberly, like watching you, right? As you're talking about this is like the radiance and just, you know, it's like truly kind of tapping into that, Monica - 0:30:26 That lo like expressing the love of like what you've discovered, you know, and want other people to experience, you know, and how much that just comes from a genuine energetic that is so loving and giving, and so it's so intimate. And yet it's like, I think about going back to what you said, how we like just rush through these experiences, or how we oftentimes let our own embarrassment, which by the way is shame. It's a form of shame. You know, kind of like come and kind of like stifle our expression in it. Where I think about some of the most beautiful people in my life, and what they all shared in common was this unabashed way of sharing their enthusiasm about something. And I just had this experience in Scotland with the woman that we were staying with. Her name was Kaia, and she was the bed and breakfast owner. Monica - 0:31:40 And everything for her was this experience. And if we were gonna ride in the car and we were gonna listen to music, we were gonna really listen to the music. And if somebody started to talk, she'd just like, pause it, you know? So she could really listen to the person that was talking, and then she'd, then we'd be like, complete with whatever the story was, and then she'd turn it back on and we would all, you know, and it was just like, I was just like, I love that. You know? Like, I love the intentionality. I loved her shamelessness about her wanting to just embrace life in that way. It was such a beautiful way of experiencing a human who is fully immersed in her own enoughness. Kimberly - 0:32:31 Lovely. Yeah. Yeah. And that, that being present with, with the moment, you know, even like making the tort is a beautiful example, but it can even be like, you know, doing the dishes, like actually feeling the warmth of the water on your hands or the bubbles, you know, there, there's so much sensuality even in, in simple tasks, you know? So just that idea of being present, I think is a huge piece of, of being in your sensuality and, and connecting to that erotic energy of life. Monica - 0:33:10 Yes, yes. Yes. The erotic energy of life. That's such a beautiful, like sentence. And so, Kimberly, let's dive into like, I now I'm like, my curiosity is fully activated. I am a fully enthusiastic yes to this conversation. Full consent. . Kimberly - 0:33:32 Awesome. . Monica - 0:33:34 I am so curious. Like, what are some things that we would never know are aphrodisiacs that actually you've discovered are very potent? Kimberly - 0:33:47 Yeah. So, you know, it, that's a really interesting question because I think we have this idea about aphrodisiacs as being kind of these exotic herbs or, you know, things that we can't even quite pronounce the names of, and they have to come from far away, and they're gonna be like this love potion, right? That I can brew them up and then I can give them to this person that I'm crushing on and it's gonna make them wanna have sex with me. Right? , like, like, like that's kind the vision that we have when we think about an aphrodisiac. And like, what I found in my work is like, the herbs are so much more powerful when we use them for ourselves in our own bodies, for our own sexual healing and sexual empowerment. And so, like, de taking away this idea that we're gonna give this potion to our, to our love, our lover, you know, and instead like, how can I turn myself on? How can I bring my, my own body alive? You know? And it can be with plants that are just, you know, right here in our, in our world, I really, as an herbalist, love to get people to connect with the plants that are right outside their door. So one of the herbs that we experimented with was actually oats, which is like such a funny one. But there's, there's the reason why we have this saying about sewing your wild oats . Like, no, Monica - 0:35:21 That's why Kimberly - 0:35:23 Yes, because it's a total aphrodisiac herb, this plant that is really common, right? Everybody knows about oats. A lot of us eat oatmeal for breakfast. And so the, the oat plant can actually help really heal and nourish our reproductive system. So it's a amazing tonic for our reproductive organs. And, you know, in order to really share about this, this plant and its power, I love to tell this story from when we were, when I was researching for the book, one of the things that I did was I brought together a circle of people and we experimented with one herb each month in our bodies to see what the effects were. And so there was a couple that was part of that aphrodisiac circle, and they had been buried for 15 years, and the spark had kind of gone out, you know? And so they were wanting to find ways to reignite. Kimberly - 0:36:27 And so one of the things that I suggested during the oat month was to take, uh, like a mesh bag and put a handful of oats, just rolled oats like you would make your breakfast cereal out of and take that bag into the bathtub with you. And so they did this, they had a bathtub that was big enough for the two of them to get in, and when you bring the oats into your bath, it turns the water like really silky smooth and this creamy white color. And you can take that bag and like run it over your skin, and it's just like super, super sensual and silky and amazing. And so they just had this whole experience with the oats in the bath, like really just playing in a way that they hadn't played sexually sensually in years. And so, you know, just that simple thing reignited this spark for them. Kimberly - 0:37:26 It's like, oh, we can do different things than we are, you know, are in the pattern of doing with our sexual connection. And then the other piece that I, I've gotta get in here with the oats was that they were also drinking, uh, a infusion of oat straw every day, which is the, like the dried leaves and stem of the plant, and then put into a jar and infused for like four hours, right? So you take an ounce of the dried oat, and you put it in the, the jar jar with, uh, just boiled water at least four hours, and then you strain it. And this, they were drinking that daily, and they were each having these different sort of struggles with their sexuality physically. Like she was experiencing a lot of vaginal dryness. And when she started drinking the oats, like she became more juicy. Kimberly - 0:38:22 Like oats are really demulcent, um, slimy, like, you know, that, that, uh, slipperiness that we want mm-hmm. in our vaginas, right? So that started to happen for her. And then her partner was having these orgasms that were actually painful sometimes. Like, they were so powerful that he would experience pain rather than pleasure mm-hmm. . And so he was always kind of braced, like, you know, is this gonna be a pleasurable one or is this gonna hurt? You know? And when he was drinking the oats that smoothed out for him where he, he wasn't experiencing the, the painful ones anymore, and he was just in his pleasure. And so the two of them, you know, with those two issues resolved, they were able to drop so much more deeply into intimacy and into the pleasure of connection. So the power of this very simple, very common plant right, is just amazing. Yes. So I love that story just to, you know, give a sense of what's possible. Monica - 0:39:28 That is amazing. I mean, now I'm really laughing at the truth of, we think it's like this exotic thing out there and we can't even pronounce it. And it's like oats, oats, right? Like, I just, it, it cracks me up. And also, I just wanna admit, I just wanna be in full transparency. I'm like over here getting like all these visuals and I'm like off in this other world, like having this my own like, you know, like erotic fantasy as Kimberly is like talking about this It Kimberly - 0:40:4 Is so Monica - 0:40:5 Awesome. Okay. So I love that because it just shows, again, it shows me like it's hidden in plain sight, right? Is something I always love to say. And so these very common everyday foods and or plants are right here around us. Sometimes it's the way that we, you know, prepare them. Or part of it I'm hearing is even in the preparation, it's in the, the waiting, it's in the suspension of instant gratification that we kind of build this muscle for pleasure and for our sensuality. And it really becomes like what I love to do with my groups, which is pleasure research Kimberly - 0:41:1 Mm-hmm. . Yep, yep. Yeah. It's really about developing a relationship with the plant, right? Mm-hmm. , like, they didn't just drink that infusion one day, and oh my gosh, everything changed. It's like we, they were drinking that for the whole month, right? Every day. Like, it's a slow process sometimes to get into connection with that orb to bring the intention to it, to let it do its gentle work in your body. Like, oats are so gentle, you know, and they're, and they're slow. So we have this sense, oh, it didn't work for me, you know, but really we just need to give it a little bit of time to do its magic inside of us. Another thing you can do with oats, which I think is important to think about in this culture, because we're such, we're in such doing mode all the time, and we can be quite stressed out. Kimberly - 0:41:56 And so if you take a tincture of milky oats, which is like the, the seed, the milky oat pod, the seed pod infused in alcohol, and you can take a dropper full of that tincture to really calm your nervous system and really bring this sense of relaxation. And, you know, that's one that actually can happen quite quickly. You know, sometimes it takes a few weeks for an herb to really start to work, like being the oat stron fusion, but this tincture, like, you take the dropper full and it can help you, your whole nervous system, just to be like, oh, okay, now I'm here, I'm present, I'm ready to connect with someone. You know? So nervous system tonics can be amazing aphrodisiacs for us in this culture, cuz they help us to slow down and to relax. Monica - 0:42:50 That's right. I, I think that can't be understated or can't be overstated that there's I think, a nervous system requirement. I know that in order for me to be fully present, it's all about the nervous system. It's all about regulating it. It's all about tending to it. It's all about just really being in a, in a balanced, calm, centered, grounded, anchored place. You know, knowing that like the container that I'm in feels safe for my body, you know, feel safe mm-hmm. for my full self-expression. And so I think that is a huge piece for so many of us. And then what also comes up, of course, I wanna go back to a couple more of the aphrodisiacs, but what also comes up for me, Kimberly, is like, there's gonna be people listening who don't have a partner. You know? And I, I am wondering like what you would say, because I, I mean, I feel like I know what you would say, but I want you to say it. Kimberly - 0:44:4 . , yeah. It's such a really good point. Because, you know, there are times in our lives where we're partnered and times when we're not. And I think that when we're not partnered, there is a tendency to maybe put our sensuality on the shelf for a while. Like, okay, I'm not gonna go there cuz it's too painful. I don't have somebody to explore this with. And so I'm gonna just set it it aside. And I think that actually that's a huge mistake because we're, again, we're cutting ourselves off from the source energy that's gonna make us vital, that's gonna lead to us being able to attract someone new if that's what we're wanting. And, you know, we may be wanting that. We may just want to be by ourselves. Like there's, there's joy in, in being unpartnered sometimes, you know? And just being able to be in our own flow. Kimberly - 0:44:58 And that doesn't mean that we have to be cut off from this erotic energy. There were several people in the group who were single, you know, and we're still exploring with us and in all different phases of that. And so, you know, we can still do this slowing down, we can still, we can make that tort for ourselves to like, just enjoy the fact that we are sensual beings. You know, even though I do have a partner, I made that tort just for myself, you know, my own own ceremony of like, you know, I'm like doing this journey of sex sexual empowerment for me, right? So we can be in our own self pleasuring practice, we can, you know, just bring that energy in. And I think the thing that can happen, right, that we've all experienced is that it can get sort of stuck in our pelvis and we can feel like, oh, I just wanna have sex, you know? Kimberly - 0:45:59 Mm-hmm. , I just want a partner now. Like, I've gotta release this energy. Yeah. And so I think the key is to reframe that I, the idea of what that energy is in our minds. Like, okay, this energy can be channeled into sex. It can be, you know, beautifully channeled into sex. Like, that's wonderful if you have that partner and you wanna do that, it can also be, you know, channeled into a glorious self pleasuring experience mm-hmm. , um, which also has a sexual kind of energy to it. But this energy is also fabulous for creativity. You know, in this book called Vagina, Naomi Wolf, she talks about how in women who were very creative over and over again, these surges of creativity happened during a time when they were having this really passionate love affair. You . So like yeah, that's one of my favorite books. Creative energy, right? Yes. And yes, they had a partner, but we can also learn to channel it without a partner. You know, Montauk Chia, who is an as an amazing sex, sex educator, um, focusing a lot on, on men's sexuality. He talks about how, you know, he has cultivated this way of orgasming without ejaculating so that he is reserving his sexual energy for himself, right? Mm-hmm. , he's like, he's like, I use that energy to write books. And I think he's written like 70 books. I mean, Monica - 0:47:36 He's, I mean, you just can't underestimate Yeah. Right? Yeah. Kimberly - 0:47:40 So it's learning to, to to move this energy channel it into different ways. And, and like I said, I think it can get stuck down in our pelvic region, and that's when it becomes sexual frustration. Mm-hmm. . So learning some breathing techniques, you know, you can kind of breathe that energy up your spine and breathe it back down your front mm-hmm. and start to make a circula a circular movement of the energy in your body. And it starts to disperse it and it starts to become less like, oh my gosh, I need to discharge this energy. Yeah. You know, there's, there's a way that an orgasm is actually a discharging of our pleasurable energy mm-hmm. . And so learning to actually tolerate that energy in our bodies, like increasing our tolerance to be in a place of pleasure, right. Somehow we've associated pleasure and pleasurable feelings with shame mm-hmm. . And so Monica - 0:48:39 Like, somehow how can we Yeah. Somehow can we be in it? Yeah. How, how that's Kimberly - 0:48:45 So moving the energy, moving the energy with our breath or shaking, you know, like just a, a process of just shaking. Yeah. I like to just stand and just like, Monica - 0:48:55 And dancing, letting and moving and, Kimberly - 0:48:57 And dancing. Move that energy through your body and really have an intention. Like, I'm gonna put this energy into whatever it is. If you are making a piece of art, if you are running a board meeting, if you are spending the day with your children, like all that energy can fuel all of Monica - 0:49:16 That, right? Yes. Yes. Kimberly - 0:49:18 So you don't need a partner, you just need to be a vital, alive person and be channeling Monica - 0:49:24 It. That's so, so true. And I love what you said earlier too, and just normalizing that there are gonna be people actually that have no interest in a partner, you know, but like, right. And, and that is so valid and that it is a way to like, as you said, channel this energy in other ways that give you not only vitality, but that's, I'm sure where so much health comes from, like mm-hmm. , this just natural reservoir of health where like all of the neurons in your body are firing and you're like fully alive. I mean, you think about the surge of that kind of energy and you're like clearing your lymph system and you're, you know, creating new neuro pathways and like, just all of the ways that this, there's a reason that radiance is related to this conversation. And it's because it's, we radiate with our aliveness, with our sensuality, with our, the spirit that animates this, this body that we're here to glorify this body. We're here to honor this body in all of its capacities. And all the rest is a fucking lie. Kimberly - 0:50:55 . Yes. I mean, really, like, we are sexual beings. We are. And we can, we can deny that or we can embrace it and just really, you know, get to experience the fullness of what's possible when we are proud of the fact that we are sexual beings and we get to experience this amazing world. It's e sensual world that we live in. Really. You were talking earlier about these poets, right? Who talk about, um, you know, sensuality, right? Yeah. Yeah. And one of my favorite poems is, uh, by this woman Donna Niko, and she has this poem called Bisexual. And um, it starts out, I think I'm bisexual flowers turned me on. Oh, love. I have eco erotic thoughts. The liquid trickle of the stream flow over the rocks makes my juices flow, my nipples respond to the tiny cup lips of flower petals. And a flower is really nothing more than spread open botanical labia love lips, smiling at the world. A flower is a sexual invitation, luring, insect pollination, trans species sexuality is what makes your garden grow. Monica - 0:52:30 Oh, Kimberly - 0:52:30 That's just Monica - 0:52:31 The beginning, Kimberly - 0:52:32 . Monica - 0:52:33 I'm like, take me now Kimberly - 0:52:35 . That is like beautiful. Monica - 0:52:38 Amazing. I love that. That poem is called Bisexual, is that what you said? Yes. And her name again? Kimberly - 0:52:45 Donna Nito. Monica - 0:52:47 Donna Nito. Donna. That is beautiful. And I wanna go back too to what you said earlier, because those of us that want to attract a partner, I thought what you said was so important because when we're turned on, right, there's a reason I think we even use that language that that like, we're turning on actually these pheromones in our bodies that actually act like a pollinator, like act like a flower, right? That attracts the bee. It's biology, right? , I mean, it's like, right. There's such a, there's such a exquisite brilliance to the way our bodies work and the way nature works, which is our body. And it just the way that certain flowers intoxicate us with their sensual Right. That smell right. That glorious smell. It's, and there's a reason too that our, our lady parts are often ref reflected in these blooms. And so yes, it's that all of these beautiful ways that we, that when we get turned on and we're open in that way, you know, that it really is this intoxicating way of being in the world that just attracts people to us. And, and that's in all forms. It could attract friendships, it could attract money, it could attract, right? Like, so I think there's also all of that. Yeah, yeah, Kimberly - 0:54:39 Yeah. It's the energy that attract, right? Yeah. It's, it's when you are in that energy, you're lit up. You are bringing the best of yourself to the world. So cultivating it is what's gonna bring that energy that you're desiring to you. You know, they're, it's not gonna come when you're walking around like depressed and like, ugh. You know, it's gonna come when you're like, wow, look at this amazing world I get to live in. I'm just so turned on by like the, the plants and the, and the sky and everything. You know, people are gonna be attracted to that, that glow that you have. Yes. And while we're talking about flowers, I'd love to just share a little bit about the month that we explored roses. Cuz you know, I think roses are so interesting because they're this, you know, kind of stereotypical romance plant, right? Kimberly - 0:55:34 , like, if you, if you love someone, you bring them a dozen roses. And, and there was, you know, when I told my group, okay, we're gonna do roses this month, there was kind of this like grown, like, I don't really like roses. Like the smell is too much. It reminds me of my grandmother , you know, and then like, we started exploring Rose and the wild roses were blooming in the northwest during the month that we were exploring with them. And so people like actually went out to the wild rose bushes and like gathered rose petals and brought them into their lives. And they started like noticing the rose bushes in their yard and they started tending them, you know, and they started developing this relationship with Rose and they started, you know, we made all kinds of things. They made rose petal infused oil that they could use for massages. Kimberly - 0:56:33 They made rose petal incense, we put rose petals in our baths, we put roses on our beds. Like, it was just a road's fest, right? And so, you know, a couple of the women had joined the group because, you know, they hadn't been partnered for a long time and they were wanting to bring sensuality back into their lives, you know, so a couple of women had these just glorious pleasuring sessions with all of these rose things that they had created, you know, like Rose was their partner for the , for the self pleasuring. So, you know, there was that aspect to it. And then there was one woman who had just broken up with her partner of like 15 years, you know, when the Aphrodisiac circle started. And she would often like, come to the meetings in tears. Mm-hmm. , like, she would be so sad and like frustrated that, you know, she didn't have a partner to explore these herbs with. Kimberly - 0:57:36 And it was hard for her to listen to other people having these experiences. And, and she came over to my house, you know, the, the day that I had just like strayed my rose oil. And, um, so, you know, I was just kind of comforting her and I, I was rubbing the, the rose petal oil on her back and just, you know, as a friend just being like, oh, you know, it's, it's okay. Like you can still be in the group . Like, this is probably gonna be important for my readers to, you know, there's all kinds of people out there who have just broken up and your story's gonna be so powerful. And, you know, I was just taking this moment to just really nourish and nurture her with the rose petal oil. And that was such a turning point moment for her, where she realized like, oh, I can still feel pleasure and I can still feel sensuality in my body even though I, it's not connected to this partner, you know, that, that I've lost, you know, like I am a sensual being in myself. And like the Rose helped her to remember that. Yes. Monica - 0:58:42 Which Kimberly - 0:58:43 I think is so, so beautiful. Monica - 0:58:46 Yeah. I, I had this revelation when I was reading Regina Thomas Hour's work, which is my listeners have heard me, you know, talk about the book Pussy in the past and, and also her work with the School of Womanly Arts. And it's such a, such a powerful book and transmission for so many reasons. But I, until I read that book, I, I had never given myself permission to receive pleasure from myself mm-hmm. in that way, right? Mm-hmm. where I was mm-hmm. mm-hmm. , you know, cuz like, I mean t m I who, you know, alert, but in terms of like , you know, masturbation for example, or Right. That, that there was just this, again, urgency to it versus just a way to be with my body and like in, even in like the Ayurvedic traditions, right? Just really tending to your body and your skin in ways that really offer pleasure and get you back in touch with your sensuality and the feeling of your skin and the feeling of just right. Like touching your own face and really giving, giving yourself and receiving from yourself, right? Yes. In that, in that one exchange and expression, because we do like everything else, think it has to come from out there and if we can learn to give it from in here first mm-hmm. , it's, it just becomes such a foundational place that we can always return to. And that is always here. Kimberly - 1:59:40 Yes. Yeah. Like, that's been one of my questions is how do we cultivate this, this energy, this aliveness without, you know, that magic of this person that we're falling in love with, you know, like how do we cultivate it for ourselves? And I think one of the beautiful things about pleasure is we always have access to it. You know, like no matter what is going on in our lives, if we have our own hands and our own bodies, we can access pleasure. You know, it can be as simple as like running your own finger over your lips. That's how I start the book. It's just like, yeah. Feel the exquisiteness of just your own touch on this sensitive area of your body, you know? Yes. Yes. And bringing a plant in can be as simple as a rose petal running that rose petal. Oh my gosh. On your lips or on your nipples. It's like so glorious. Monica - 1:60:34 So, and like what, what about falling in love with ourselves? Right, Kimberly - 1:60:40 Exactly. Yes. . Monica - 1:60:43 So that's also just like, oh, like, oh, I forgot, you know, like, I can be the object of my own affection, my own mm-hmm. Kimberly - 1:60:55 , Monica - 1:60:56 Right? Erotic touch my own, you know, cur like I can be my own lover. And just to really try that on, you know, as we are remembering our way back home to ourselves and coming back into this precious body, you know, of ours that is so deserving of Kimberly - 1:61:28 , so deserving, Monica - 1:61:31 So deserving of our deepest admiration and love and devotion. And so, Kimberly, what can I say? I'm in love Kimberly - 1:61:43 . Yay , yay . Monica - 1:61:47 And thank you just for, you know, I, it takes guts to write about something like this. It takes guts to get out there with your just love of this subject and just watching you, you know, in this, in this session, just, you know, from my listeners, you know, we like have the video on. It's like been like watching like truly like all of these stages of y your bloom, right? Like it is just coming alive in you and watching you express it in all these ways. And just that genuine understanding as somebody who's been witnessing you in this interview, like this is so, like, it's such a deep part of who you are and the gift that you're bringing to the world. And so I just wanna acknowledge you for your courage and your compassion and your love of others because if you didn't have that, you wouldn't be doing this. And bringing us back to these really important and essential conversations that give us all permission, you know, to have a deeper relationship and relatedness to our own sexuality and our own erotic energy. So thank you. Kimberly - 1:63:15 Oh, thank you so much for saying that cuz it does, I mean, it does, it's such a big act of courage to put this book out into the world. And, you know, I really thought about, you know, what is the most important thing I could do with my life energy? And this feels like what I want to share with people because it just brings so much aliveness and it, it brings, it has the potential to really bring people into this place where they are more filled up and they're more able to offer their authentic selves and their creativity to the world. You know, one of my friends talks about this erotic energy as a renewable resource. You know, it's like, it's like there, it's abundant, right? It's, it's a source of energy that is abundant. There's no end to it. It's only, you know, limited by our creativity and our imagination. Kimberly - 1:64:15 So, you know, bringing it in as fuel for our, for our lives. Just, it makes me so happy to think of coming to a time where, you know, we are in a culture where people are walking around sexually fulfilled. Yes. Like, just imagine walking down the street with people around you who are all feeling sexually fulfilled. Like, you know how you feel when you're filled up sexually, when you're in the afterglow, right? Yes. Like, yes, the, I just think there would be so much less violence, there would be so much more patience, so much more celebration and creativity. So I'm just devoted to helping with this healing, this core level, visceral healing, even if it takes all the courage that I have to bring it forth. Monica - 1:65:12 So, yeah. Well, I thank you. I am here to support you in whatever way I can. So, and for our listeners, you know, I'll be sure to put all of Kimberly's links in the show notes, but you know you're going to get that book like Yeah. You're gonna go get that book because even though we talked about oats and roses, there's way more, you know, and so more to be revealed. We hope you enjoyed this episode. For more information, please visit us@jointherevelation.com and be sure to download our free gift, subscribe to our mailing list or leave us a review on iTunes. We thank you for your generous listening and as always, more to be revealed.