Monica: [00:00:00] Welcome welcome to the revelation project podcast. I'm Monica Rogers, and this podcast is intended to disrupt the trance of unworthiness and to guide women, to remember and reveal the truth of who we are. We say that life is a revelation project and what gets revealed. He gets healed. Hello, and welcome to another episode of the revelation project.
Podcast. My special guest today is a woman named Sandra pain. She's a registered nurse and the owner of Sandra pain, holistic wellness coaching, and she's founder of the nurse, our ex coaching program after overcoming her own struggle with burnout, depression, and anxiety. Using a truly holistic healing approach on what she refers to as her journey through the Canyon of hope.
Sandra felt a passionate fire to guide other women on their own Canyon journeys, through coaching and healing. And so was born the nurse RX program where nurses learn and practice a host of skills and exercises. To manage their own mental and emotional exhaustion through the combination of individual coaching and a powerful sisterhood of connection and support burnout, and how the overwhelming demands on women are leading us down a path to mental and emotional overwhelm.
Is what we're really talking about today, the epidemic of mental illness, as it relates to the expectations of women and also the overarching feelings of inadequacy and failure. And of course, we're all present to all that's been going on with our healthcare workers all over the world with the Corona virus.
So this feels like a really timely and important conversation today. So welcome Sandra.  

Sandra: [00:01:53] Thank you so  much. I'm so, so, so happy to be here with you. 

Monica: [00:01:57] Uh, well, I'm so happy to have you and wow. What a week we've had. I mean, just to create some context here, we are obviously still in the pandemic and of course, we're starting to see a variant of the virus that seems to be spreading, you know, a lot of fear of frankly, in many, many.
Places, but also the thing that I was really struck by, and I don't know if you saw it, but there was a reporter reporting in one of the, in several of the hospitals, kind of the voice of the healthcare workers and those that are sick. And she just kept breaking down in the video because she was just so overcome with emotion.
Did you get a chance to see that Sandra. I haven't seen it. No, but I'm sure you, this is exactly what you kind of talk about. And yeah. So I just wanted to really start by asking you to share with us your personal experience and what really drew you to this work, because I know you had your own experience of burnout, but I know you're also witnessing and listening to it in the world at large.
Sandra: [00:03:05] Yeah, it definitely starts with my own journey from a very young age. I. I struggled with depression and anxiety, primarily depression and all through my teenage years into my twenties and you know, for well over 20 years, I not only struggled with the symptoms and the self-loathing and the self doubt, and just really like this deep self-hatred, but also with.
The label, because the label is almost as damaging as the symptoms, because when we're told that we have depression or mental illness, and it's a hopeless diagnosis, it's one that tells you there's something wrong with you. You're not normal. And you need to. Be on this medication, you need to take this substance in order to be normal in order to fit into the box that the world has created to say that this is what normal people look like and act like 

Monica: [00:04:17] I just want to stop right there and just say, that's  such a great, that just such a great point.
And honestly, I think more than normal is the. Fact that so many of us are experiencing depression, anxiety, burnout, breakdown. I think that normal, I don't know, you know, it's, it's, it, it almost makes me question really what we think normal is, and I'm starting to think that normal might be a pretend state, you know, like I'm pretending to be normal.

Sandra: [00:04:49] Yeah. Yeah. I, I think we need to be questioning it because they're like, this is. You know, it's, it's even far more widespread and rampant and spreading, you know, faster than any virus we've ever seen. The mental health date of our world is in crisis. And I think we need to question why, and it's not just.
You know, there's so many factors, right? Like the pace of our life, the expectations. And I mean, I primarily focus on women because that creates a whole nother ball game of expectations that we're trying to fit. And. I feel like, yeah, we need to question what normal is because I got to say being told my whole life that I wasn't normal, it feeds the illness because the illness already is saying to us that.

Or not okay. That there's something wrong with us. And then we have doctors saying, yeah, there's something wrong with you. And so it's, I don't know, it's this, it's really hard to explain. It's like this self perpetuating cycle that honestly, I'm not sure what's worse the symptoms or living with that label because it is it's hopeless.
It doesn't give any room for a change. It's you know, I, I remember coming to a point in my life where I was. Basically surrendering and not in the way I think of surrender now, but surrendering in the fact that like, this is my life, I'm just going to have to live, you know, taking these pills live in this prison.
Uh, which is what it felt like because you can't feel. And what I've learned is that feeling is actually. Normal thats the normal, like we're trying to suffocate feelings when 
feelings are a normal part of our human existence and, 

Monica: [00:06:48] and such an important part. And if not the most important part. So I know that, you know, that I love talking about the human mess and one of the ways that, of course we, women are.
Conditioned or socialized is to not be emotional men too, right. Were, are kind of victims of this mentality. And it serves no one because what we end up doing is really stifling our emotional intelligence, which is so important when it comes to relational skills with others. And so. We tend to get to that point of burnout where we don't know when to stop because we've stopped recognizing the signs.
And it's a little bit like. You know, taking a pair of scissors and cutting the wire that, that goes to the check engine light on the car. It's only a matter of time until that car is going to have a breakdown on the side of the road. And this is also what we're doing to our essential workers. When. Just as a society again, even when you see how many people, you know, and I'm not here to argue whether the virus is real or not real, that's not my point.
The point is, and the virus is real. It's it? I just want to go there for a minute. Okay. I just got to go there for a minute. I'm like, okay. Because it's real well, I think that we're human beings and we have bodies now how to, how to actually, all right, I'm not going to go down that tangent, but what I will say is this, okay, we all get viruses and there are just certain things that we need to do for basic self care.
And this is what I'm talking about. And I think this is what you're talking about and why you're kind of raising the flag here is that we have forgotten how to listen to our body's wisdom and we've forgotten how to care for ourselves in an O. Strange way. What I'm hearing is that your journey of self-loathing led you into a journey of self love, because you were, you had to kind of take your own health into your own hands and start to normalize how you felt for yourself.

Sandra: [00:08:57] Yeah. I, I think, um, you know, so many nurses that I've talked to that come to me and they're, and they're sharing their story of how they're feeling and they relate it like, Oh, it just came on all of a sudden. And the thing is, is that it feels like it comes on all of a sudden. But it's because, you know, I, and I, it's not a blanket statement.

Of course, you know, there are not, everyone's the same, but we've lost such touch and connection with ourselves that when it hits, it feels like it's this big bang. And, but really we've been getting signals for so long. We hear these voices inside of us that tell us that something doesn't feel right. But this is not good for us.
We continue to make choices and decisions that don't align with what is best for us. And we just keep going down this path bit by bit by bit until eventually it all spills over. Right. And so it's, it feels like it's one thing or like one big event, or it just happens all of a sudden, but I genuinely believe it's because we're not listening and it's.
It's not that we don't hear it. We're not listening. We're not actually, you know, taking action based on that internal guidance that we're being given. And the more we shut it down, the more disconnected we become from it. And then we just continue spiraling down these same patterns, the same paths. Until we hit, you know, the emotional exhaustion where a cup just completely spills over.

And then it feels like the whole world is falling apart. What I call being thrust back into square one of life, 

Monica: [00:10:36] Right. Which is a very humbling place. And in a weird way, I wish it for more people because it is the place where we start to recognize that this is not sustainable and I have to start. Caring for myself.
And I want to also kind of point to the irony here because there's so much of it. And part of it is that as women, we're kind of natural nurturers and we have a, I think we struggle really to, to really understand. How healthy boundaries work as it relates to over committing ourselves, or as you said, not making choices that are aligned with our own health and wellbeing.

And then you take somebody who has gone into the active profession of nursing, who wants to make a difference and be of service to the sick, to the wounded, to the ill and. Then how, again, as a society, they get treated and, or there's also that other side of that coin, which is that they're called into service and then there's not enough of them.
And then of course they end up working for double shifts and triple shifts in order to be of service, but then at their own expense, Yeah. 

Sandra: [00:12:00] Yeah. It's. So, um, yesterday this client was saying to me that in the same sentence, a manager told her, you need to start looking after yourself, but for today we need you to stay for 19 hours.

So they want, you know, and that's one of my biggest. Frustrations with our system is like, we talk about prevention and we talk about, you know, creating healthy, healthy lifestyles. We talk about holistic health, but we don't actually practice it. And we don't actually sort of create. Environments where it's possible and nurses are just, I mean, they're at the forefront of that.
And you know, like you said, the primarily nurses are women and we're coming from, you know, a lot of really. Toxic upbringings, as far as what women are supposed to be and what kind of roles we're supposed to fulfill constantly pushing ourselves, constantly feeling like we're not good enough. And like, no matter what we do, we're always failing.

And then we're giving, giving, giving, leaving next to nothing for ourselves. And then we go into a profession like this that feeds that again. And it's, uh, again, it's one of those cycles. It just keeps. Feeding into each other. And then we reach a point and I've had this conversation with so many nurses too, of like, isn't it just inevitable that we're all going to burn out.
And I said, yeah, in this culture, it is like in what we're, what we're doing right now is not sustainable for anyone. It's not how human beings were meant to live. So yeah, it is inevitable. We're all going to reach that point, but we don't have to. So that's where I'm kind of at. With my coaching and what I do is just, you know, trying to not just help people at that stage, but looking at ways that we can kind of, uh, implement strategies sooner so that we don't have to reach that point.
And ultimately it's the systems that need to change, but at an individual level, we can create a huge difference. Not only in ourselves, but in the people coming into the profession. And, you know, I talked specifically to nurses, but this is applicable to so many different professions. Cause burnout is not isolated to healthcare workers.
I mean, there's parental burnout. There's burnout in professionals like in business there's burnout everywhere. Right. So. And th the, the trickle into other mental health struggles, when burnout goes untreated, it goes unmanaged. And then it just becomes, it gets out of control. And we start to see it show up in, you know, full blown depression and anxiety and PTSD and panic attacks and substance abuse and even suicide.

Monica: [00:14:38] What keeps coming into my consciousness as we're talking is the book, patriarchy stress disorder, the invisible barrier to women's happiness and fulfillment by Dr. Valerie Ryan. And I don't know if you've had a chance to read it yet, but I recall interviewing. Sage Polaris a few podcasts ago. And she was really quoting Valerie's line, which is instead of burning us at the state, they just hand us the torches now, because they know that we'll burn ourselves out and it's this it's, you know, it, it really is this.

I think we find ourselves in a, in a very, very provocative time where we are kind of in the middle of. What I'm deeply hoping is a societal break down for us that, that actually, you know, really forces us to look at how we have been creating unsustainable systems. And how we're not meant to live this way.
And, you know, I continued to remind everybody that when we talk about the patriarchy, we're not talking about men, we're talking about a system and a way of living and being that is. Toxic. And frankly, everyone is a victim, even men. But when I think of, especially just the, the healthcare workers and our essential workers in the world, that's what comes up for me is like, it's just a cry.

It's a crime. So tell me, uh, Sandra, just, I would love to hear more about how nurses find you and then what you help them do through the nurses RX coaching program. Like what, tell me more because, and I would love to also hear some statistics if you have them just in terms of like, just there, there's gotta be a tremendous.
I mean, I'm just thinking about your. The conversation that you're having with the world and how many nurses would, Whoa, I got to listen to this. There's so 
many. 

I feel like my own journey led me to a place where I started to really rediscover so much about myself and so many truths about what I'm doing here.
You know what my. Purpose use, like, you know, Robert, your quotes, my purpose here. And as I started exploring more of this coaching path, and I mean, I I've been a nurse for 14 years and a lot of my career I spent in the community working with, with patients that had chronic disease. So like heart disease and diabetes and doing a form of coaching.

But what I call coaching in a box because there's so many restrictions and it's just, you can't fully serve people in our current system. It's and I mean, I'm in Canada, but I know it's across the board in Canada and the United States that our systems just do not provide us. The ability to work to our fullest capacity and to our fullest scope.
And so it leaves so many of us feeling like what we're doing is not making a difference. Like it's not enough because it isn't enough. And after I had my last child, uh, which was three and a bit years ago already, I decided that I couldn't go back to that. I couldn't go back into that, that type of coaching, uh, knowing that being a teacher and being an influence and being someone who, who really has a passion for helping people create the kind of life that they deserve.

Sandra: [00:18:32] I knew going back into that environment that I couldn't fulfill what I needed to do with my life. In that role. And so when I started to lean towards nurses and giving back to nurses in the way that I felt I could serve it just, I mean, honestly it just all kind of unfolded. So as it does when you're aligned, so I just kept following my, you know, just following my own little arrow that is inside of me, that that kind of guides my way.
And I created this program. It's a group program. Uh, there is one-on-one as well because I ideal, you know, nurses are exposed to a lot of trauma in their careers and not even just in their careers, like we are whole people and many of us have experienced different shades and different forms of trauma in our personal lives as well.
And so in the one-on-one we go through a lot of, uh, more deeper work and, and the group it's creating this collective. Of women. I specifically work with women nurses, and it's not that I don't acknowledge that there are men, male nurses out there who are struggling, but at this point it's just for women and we create the group which provides, I always just think of it as like this.

Safety net. It's a space where you can show up and be completely yourself and not have to put on a mask or put on any kind of armor to protect yourself and to make sure that you fit the mold or that you seem strong and you seem like you're cut out because nursing is, we have. This it's a very fear-based profession and it's, fear-based in a, in a, in a few ways, but one is that we are expected to work to these standards of practice.
We have, you know, a very strict code that we are expected to practice. Within, Oh, we're not given the resources to do it, right. We're short-staffed, we're not supported. We're working way over time. They're just, we're not supported to work to that scope. And so there's always this underlying fear and anxiety of discipline.
If you're not meeting those standards. But yet we're not being given the resources to work to those standards. So it's, uh, I mean, it's, it's so messed up, right? 

Monica: [00:20:58] I mean, I'm just sitting here, like, you know, really just shaking my head because in saying like so many systems are set up this way where we're, short-staffed not supported, not.
Paid. I, I think of our teachers in the world. Right. You know, again, it's just, it's crazy making stuff. It's crazy making, it's a crazy-making way to live. And of course it's antithesis of what nurses and teachers start from, which is a heart, a genuine place of wanting to serve. I mean, these are, these are our most essential, most important.
Workers in so many ways. And so again, it, it just, it strikes me as just. You know, and I hear the, the weariness in your voice because, and I know that you are a pro activist you're out here really wanting to make change happen, but I'm sure that it's daunting when you really kind of look at the overwhelm that comes with a system such as this.

Sandra: [00:22:04] Yeah. Yeah, it is. Yeah. I would be lying if I said, you know, there are many, many days where I'm like, what am I doing? Because our, I mean, our systems are so broken and. It's you know, like I have to scale myself back and I remind myself and I remind my clients all the time. And when I do, when I teach workshops, I'm Al I always make sure that I mentioned this, that I am not here to change those, the system.
I am not, that's not my focus. My focus is the individual woman who is struggling, who is so emotionally overwhelmed and who has lost her passion, who has lost her joy. Who has lost her spark for wanting to be in this in, you know, not even just in this career, but you know, in life. And, and I feel like. This is a concept I, I visualize is we have an idol that we strive to be like, and this idol is strong.

She can get through anything. She can go through a code, she can resuscitate a baby and then move on to the next patient. Just as strong as she would, as she was before nothing gets to her. She's tough. She's that kind of nurse who can just, she can handle all the shit. That is being thrown at her. And that's when nurses come into this profession, that's the idol they're striving to be like, and it's not realistic because so part of my narrative that I am teaching is individualy when we change ourselves and we learn to prioritize ourselves and make.
Make sure that our lives are aligning with what is best for us when we learn to set those boundaries and say no, to refuse the overtime, to refuse, to stay, to refuse, to miss a break, uh, to refuse, to look after an entire unit without any help, like when we can learn to stand for our stele ourselves and prioritize ourselves, then.
Nurse by nurse individual by individual, we can change the idol that is in nursing. 

Monica: [00:24:22] I was just going to say, like you just said, like I have chills because you said you just surfaced so many great revelations here and. I so you're absolutely right. Right. The distinction here is you're not here to change the system.
And I do believe I'm right there with you, that it starts at an individual level. It starts from the inside out. And which is why I think we're all being called in this very uncomfortable time. Right. To really. Pause, stop, break down, whatever it's going to take to look, you know, because we're, as we change, we're going to change the systems.

And as we start refusing to comply, you know, with the status quo is when the system is going to be forced to change. Yeah. And it's so important that you just really also demonstrated, I think, where that shows up and also. That we have, I think the fact that you, you were able to just point to kind of this idle, but what I also want to put to kind of like, like a superhero, somebody who literally isn't human, that.
That these things would make them some kind of superhuman to be able to, like you said, resuscitate a baby and then move right on without having to stop and process and release some kind of emotion. It's like, those are luxuries somehow. Not for these very, very important people that serve us. And it's like, no, no, no.
That is the, the opposite of, of what we want create. And of course you can sit there and say like, Oh, it's no wonder, but I also think that it points back to what you were saying about your work and how even just bringing nurses together in a coaching circle where they can. Not have to wear that superhero mask anymore and really just reveal the truth of what's really going on.
And inside of them, that seems like the most simple thing, but it's also the most profound thing when we can witness each other and hear each other's stories. And I think start to recognize and realize like, Oh my God, like I've. I just keep going to keep from thinking and being, you know, that there's that moment where we get to pause and breathe and look at our lives and say, this is not sustainable.
This is not serving me. And of course we know that if we're not actively nourishing ourselves, how can we truly nourish others and serve others? 

Sandra: [00:27:08] Yeah. It's that whole concept of putting on your mask before you put on the mask of others who need your help. Right. And it's not, it's not what we foster in, in today's current healthcare climate.
It's just, it's not. And you know, I'll just go back to one of those, one of the points I was making about nursing, being this fear based culture and because there's another part of that is that we also have this very long standing. Foundation of bullying and you know, the whole nurses eat their young.
Like, I don't know if there's a person out there. Who's never heard that statement. Um, It's, it's also a part of the problem, of course, because if we, you know, we're not supporting each other, we're not getting support laterally. We're not getting support from the top. And so we're very alone. We feel alone anyways.
And we, and so we suffer in silence because we don't want to feel, we don't want to be seen as the weak nurse or the one that can handle it. And there's so many stories of, you know, people reaching out and saying that they're struggling and then. They're ostracized or they're, you know, they're out of the cool kids club because, because they can't handle it.
And so nobody wants to be the victim of bullying. And so that's another reason why often nurses don't reach out for help. They just struggle in silence until it hits a point where they can't do it anymore, where they're just completely falling apart. And often it's somebody else, you know, someone in their family who recognizes it and says like, I think you need to, I think you need some help.
Sometimes a coworker, but often it's our family. Uh, sometimes it's ourselves too, but like, you know, they, they did this, this, uh, across Canada study in 2019. And it just showed that there, uh, that the majority of nurses are experiencing burnout, like something close to 90% of nurses have symptoms of burnout and many of them with clinically significant symptoms and.
Like I'm telling this is before COVID. So can you imagine what it's like now? Like the, I think two thirds of nurses experienced symptoms of depression. So, uh, you know, one of the most startling is that I think it was 10% of nurses have thought about suicide in the last 12 months. And I mean, it's, it's a, it's a crisis we're in the middle of a crisis, but we we've just been studying it.
We talk about it, but we're not doing enough and I'm not trying to like diminish or dismiss what has been done, because there are a lot of pioneers in this, in this arena as well. But we're not doing enough. We're clearly not doing enough. If there's that many people still struggling. And, you know, I just, I love what you said too about like how we're not given the time to process, because I think this is a big contributor to how burnout happens and how depression happens.
And PTSD is because we are continually, especially in more acute care or rural settings where we're not, when we don't have the extra resources that many urban settings do. And we, you know, we're, we're hit with these significant situations and we sit with people in their darkest moments, in their, you know, in their despair and their loss and their sadness.

And then we're just supposed to pick it up and move on. So we're treated like we're not human beings, we're in this human caring profession and we are not, we, the nurses and other healthcare workers are not treated like humans because we need time. That affects us. That affects our heart. That affects us on a deep, emotional level.

Uh, and often it triggers so much pain inside of us, right? If you're caring for a sick child or, or a child that has died and you have a child at home, like it just, there's so many parallels that are human, a part of our human existence, but they're dismissed and we're not given, we're not given any time or space or respect to be allowed to feel, to be human.
And I mean, it's so connected to. Everything that I went through as a kid feeling like there was something wrong with me because I was sad. Um, or because I was emotional and that, you know, I, I, I look at the work I'm doing right now, which is often talking with, you know, grown women who feel like there's something wrong with them because they feel anxious or because they feel sad and it's like, You know, when we really look at it, 

Monica: [00:31:29] How could you not, how could you not, how could you not?
And just to just really kind of drive this point home a little bit. If I were to look at just the employment of nurses in the U S it's just under 3 million and I. Think I'm terrible with math, but at that 10% that you were talking about that were, you know, contemplating suicide based on, you know, just years of burnout before COVID even happened.

We're talking about what almost 300,000 nurses. Yeah. Individuals, people, women, a lot of the majority of these nurses are women. And this is, this is kind of again, You know, I understand that we're, we're in a time of urgency and now's now's maybe, you know, not the time that people, because everybody has got their heads down, just working to keep people alive, but it's really, I think.
Recognizing that this has been going on for a long, long time and it absolutely has to change. And I wanted to ask you just more about the Canyon of hope, because, you know, as we talk about this, I just really want to say, I'm just appreciating your work and what you're. Illuminating at such a deep, deeper level now, because now I'm like, Oh my God, like just hearing some of what you've had to share with us today has really hit me in a deeper way.
So thank you. You know, like it just it's I come from a family of. Doctors nurses and teachers. And it just, it really, for me, creates deeper understanding of what these people that I love and care about so much have gone through. 

Sandra: [00:33:22] Yeah. And. I think we all know what they're doing. Like we, you know, I think we get it on a, on a very surface level.
What, what the work is like. And, you know, there's a lot of, like you signed on for this, you chose this career, like don't complain. And I don't think nurses are complaining and I don't 

Monica: [00:33:39] think they, they, they would have signed on for this, had this been, you know, it's like, no, they, they, it also is like very glamorous, you know, like going into nursing, like you're, you don't fit you don't.
Think about, same with teaching, you know, I think that people go and they serve from a place of being inspired by somebody who had a huge impact on them without knowing kind of how it really goes down. Yeah. Yeah. So I find myself really getting, almost needing to hear about the Canyon of hope. So as I go down, you know, this, this path a little further, so tell me more about that.
 
The Canyon of hope is visualization. That I, I walk people through when I teach workshops, I've been doing it even before I started working with nurses. It's, it's something that I'm a very visual person and it helped me understand. Or it like gave me context to what I was going through and now I share it because what I feel so many people are missing is hope, uh, hope for another way, hope for a change, they feel stuck.

Sandra: [00:34:50] They feel like they're, this is just. This is just the way it is, right? Like we just have to put it, like you said, put your head down and just survive until I can retire. And then I can be finally free of this. And that is such a prison to be in. And I, I don't think anyone deserves to spend a day more in their life once they wake up to the fact that there is another way.
You don't need to spend any more time in this space that you're in, in this space that feels so dark and heavy. And that's the one side of the Canyon. And, you know, I have it recorded. It's on my YouTube channel so people can listen to it if they choose. But basically it's like where you're at right now in this dark heavy place where you feel stuck and you feel like there's no hope.

You feel like you don't know if there's any other way of living where I talk about like, yeah. Or I just surrendered to this is my life. I just have to, I'll never be normal. I'll never be truly happy. I'll never really be excited for my life. This is just the, the lot I've been given for life. And. That's a heavy place to be.
And then you're standing in there with all of this and you, and you look across the Canyon and you feel something and it's pulling you, it's this magnetic pull from across the Canyon and it feels warm and it feels light and it feels like possible and happy and expanded. And it's like, you don't know what that is, but you know that it's.
Far better than where you're at right now. And so then you make decision to start going down the Canyon and the Canyon going like scaling the Canyon wall is the journey. It's going through, you know, it's digging through our beliefs. It's, it's building resilience. It's learning how to take care of ourselves and prioritize ourselves and set boundaries and detoxify our life.

And it's the way I describe it. It just, you learn to trust yourself, you learn to take breaks, you learn to slow down and then you get to the base and you are. You see how far you've come and you look ahead and it's dark. It's just black and cold. And this is where I feel is like the root. Of our pain of our loss of our complete despair.
And it's scary. And it's why, you know, so many of us drink and so many of us smoke pot and eat chips. And it's. So why, so many of us turn to busy-ness in our life and different other behaviors to try to hide, because this stuff is really uncomfortable. But this is where I believe a community of support at the very least a support.
So someone in your corner, but a community like a sisterhood that comes together, that circles up with you, that links arms and then leads you through this dark place where you can feel everything that you need to feel, but also be held in that and completely accepted. And then you get to the other side and.

When you put your hat and every time I tell it, I, you know, I'm overcome with this emotion when we get to the other side and you put your hand on the wall and you feel this overwhelming feeling of hope that you've come so far and you've made it through so much. And. Now you just have to climb out and you're climbing own.
It's like, you can feel freedom. Like you feel this power inside of you and you've, you know, you've done it. You've built it. And you have this network where like the support network that is almost pushing you. Like, it's like, they're lifting you out. Um, anyways, I kinda just walked you through it. 

Monica: [00:38:35] Love, I love it because I'll tell you, I just kind of like visualized it and it's so true, you know, it, I think.
I personally can really relate to kind of this feeling of the unburdening, you know, as you go down and then you have all this energy, you reclaim all these pieces of ourselves that we we've. Forsaken or that we've abandoned or that we've dismissed or that we've forgotten. And it's by reclaiming these pieces of ourselves.

What we're also doing is really realigning. And as we realign, we. I say we become divine and that energetic source and that connection gets, it's never, it's never gone. But I think what happens is that we, we dim that signal and we do it to ourselves and. We have the power to undo it and to become realigned.

And that's why I love these rewords so much it's reveal, reclaim re author restore, resolve there's. And then the revolution is what happens when we're able to. Come back to the world with our whole selves. And then we have the energy to face and to change what needs to be faced and changed. And it's a beautiful process, but man, when you're on one side of it, it certainly doesn't look beautiful.
It certainly doesn't look appealing. And actually, which is why I think a lot of people and uh, just deciding that death is better. And it's like, I just want to say to all those people, it's not it's, I can't say that for people, but of course. I, those of us that know what's on the other side, I just want to say there's so much support available and I love that you have created this Oasis for nurses.
And I just, I just am so grateful in this moment for you sharing this work with us. Thank you. 

Sandra: [00:40:42] Oh, thank you. And I, you know, I'm just reminded of, as you were saying that about how people think, or people can come to a place where they feel like, you know, ending their life would be just so much easier.
Right. And you know, the, the journey through the Canyon, cause I know you've been on your own. And, and so many of the people listening will have already, you know, have started their own journey back to themselves and. It is hard. Uh, it makes you face a lot of really hard things. And some of us have been through some really significant trauma in our lives that is painful to heal, but we can heal it.
And I just, cause I've, I've been there in my life where I have, you know, thought about ending it and. I think back now. And I feel, I feel so proud that I didn't, because it's a part of my story. And, you know, I feel like everybody's pain is a part of their story. And I don't. I see, I see my past now as like, I didn't have to feel that way.

I, you know, that there was nothing wrong with me. I wasn't broken, I didn't need to be fixed, but I had to go through through that to get to where I am today. And one of the. Biggest things that has changed the way I see myself is one of the simplest things, but it's recognizing my uniqueness and, you know, I share this with my clients.
I share this with my children and honestly, anybody who will listen because it's so simple, but I think it's so simple. We forgot that the day that we were born. The world needed us. There is nobody like us in this entire world and we have unique gifts to share and a unique way of sharing them and expressing them.

And when we are living with these masks and this armor and pretending to be. Somebody who are not just so that we can fit in or we can, you know, mold ourselves so that we feel like we belong, that we are actually doing a disservice to the world because the world needs us like the truest, the truest essence of who each and every one of us is.
And I had this conversation with my, he was four at the time. And he said to me that he didn't feel like he was important. And this is a big, you know, a big emotionally fueled mission in my life is to impart this kind of inspiration, that to help people see how important they are. And, and my own child said that I was like, Oh my God.

Like, it just, it hurts so badly, but I looked outside and it was snowing. And. I had this idea and I shared it with him about, you know, relating the uniqueness of human beings to snow. Um, and you know, I get choked up just thinking about it, cause it was, uh, such a deep conversation with a, with a four year old, but he got it.

Okay. Yeah. And I'll just say, like, from that, I just, I, I wrote a book and I, I wrote a song and I. Recorded the song this year and the book is being published and it's called the perfect snowflake and it's a children's book and it's perfect. And like it's so I just, you know, I'm not sure what kind of got me started talking about that, but I feel like, you know, it's this it's at the heart of everything is.
You know, coming back home, like coming back home to who you are and no matter who you are, no matter what your profession is, no matter how stuck you are, no matter how deep you feel like you're into the muck that you're in, there is a way back. There is a way back. And we need you. 

Monica: [00:44:40] We need you, and back to normalizing the breakdown is part of the breakthrough.
It's part of the process. It's part of our evolution. I think, as we kind of move towards consciousness, frankly, that sometimes, you know, You think about those quotes and we think maybe they're so trite, but God it's like when Rumi says, you know, the crack is where the light gets in. It's true. It's like it took, and it does take because it's human nature, sometimes a complete and utter breakdown before you can really see what you need to see and become who you need to become.
And so for those of anybody who's listening, that feels like you've hit that wall. That just means you're. So close to being, you know, one step away from being on the other side of that journey. And so, you know, back to kind of these circles, because I do believe Sandra that it's how women are circling right now is so important.
And what I want to say to women out there that are like really circling with women, the w the it's really the coaches and the leadership that holds these circles of women that create the context for how women gather together now. And it is changing. And, you know, you and I both have had a personal experience with women's circles that have.
That are such a great example of what I'm talking about here. Yeah. And more and more I'm experiencing whether it's a course I'm doing or a zoom call or a seminar series or an actual coaching group that these ways of being together and supporting each other and learning a new way to. Be with each other is a huge part of what I think is creating this space for more and more women to do this work.
And so if you're listening today, you know, certainly if you're a nurse reach out to Sandra and I'll have all of her information, of course, in the show notes, And if you're a woman, who's just curious about learning more about different coaching circles, please reach out and email me. I'm happy to share at any point and help you find the circle that's right for you and Sandra, where can our audience find out more about you?
And I'll let you just kind of share that before we, you know, say goodbye, but again, I just really want to. Honor your work in the world and just say, thank you for this. Just, I loved how I could really hear how passionate you are and how close your emotion is to the surface. And that just shows me how deeply you care.

And so again, I just want you to know how much I appreciate your voice today and just making the time to bring this conversation to all of our listeners. So thank you so much. 

Sandra: [00:47:35] Um, I, I appreciate your words. I, that people can find me in many ways. Uh, I, for nurses, I do have a private Facebook group it's called surviving nursing, and that's a space that I am striving to create community that is safe.
That is. Secure that is sacred really for us to show up and to share our struggles, to share our success and to be there for each other in an online way. So it's, it's not perfect, but it's something. And from that, I also teach workshops every couple of months. And those, you know, one of the biggest feedbacks I get from there is.

That it's so good to see that I'm not alone because as I, as I mentioned, so many of us are struggling in silence. And I, uh, I've also, uh, just, I'm starting a podcast this year and it's called end the silence. And it is an opportunity for nurses to have a voice and to share their stories because our stories are powerful and they inspire and they heal.
And we need a platform for nurses who I call our silent heroes. Um, To speak and to be heard and to be appreciated and validated. So that's, they can reach out to me on Facebook. Of course, I have a Facebook page, Sandra pain, wellness, um, and on Instagram. And, uh, yeah, so they can re anybody, anyone, honestly, whether you're a nurse or not, my door is always opened.
And, uh, and of course you can watch for the book coming, coming in the spring. Uh, the perfect snowflake for all us. 

Monica: [00:49:14] I love that so much. Well, again, to our listeners, I just want to thank you for being here. We'll have all of the details in the show notes. For finding Sandra. And until next time more to be revealed,

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