Penance a place of transformation
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[00:00:00] Thank you for joining us on Draw Near Rooted in the Catholic faith. We're two best friends, navigating life, family, and faith with honesty and a lot of love. 

Our hope is to inspire you as we all grow closer to Christ and to one another. We're so glad you're here. Let's draw near. Today is Ash Wednesday, which marks the beginning of Lent, and I have to say I feel like God has a plan like for this Lent. I think he has obviously has a plan for every Lent.

As I say that, I'm like, that's healthy. None of the Lins in Lenin history matter. They didn't matter except this one. I don't know. I just get the sense that like he's trying to do something really beautiful. This Lent. And so I have been like listening to a couple videos and like random podcasts and stuff.

And obviously with Lent approaching, a lot of people are doing the topic of Lent as are we. And like just there's like a theme in all of them, [00:01:00] which I find really beautiful. And it's it's all centered around what God is trying to do within each heart during Lent. I don't know, I'm exci, I'm excited, I feel like there's a need for lent. Yeah. If that makes sense. Like a need that's greater than I've ever felt before. Yeah. And so Lent this year feels pregnant with hope, if that makes sense.

Yeah. Yeah. What I am sensing is just like this return to our crosses and. Obviously Lent is a time of preparation where we are embracing penance. We're embracing suffering. That's the goal because we're preparing to unite that with Jesus's suffering death and ultimately the joy of the resurrection.

But that's like the sense that I get of what he is inviting us to is just this deep embrace of. Suffering in the cross. I was watching a video the other day, just a really short one, and there was one line that stood out to me. It was from this, I think he was a monk [00:02:00] maybe, and he said, lent is not a time for giving up.

It's a time of building up. And I just sat there with that one line, because a lot of times in Lent, that's like the focus, what are you giving up this land? And it almost turns it inward. I'm gonna do this because whatever reason. I really like that. Lent is not a time of giving up.

It's a time of building up. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. That fits the theme actually of, we're getting ready to do a lin and retreat here at our parish. And that fits the theme comes from Isaiah 58 being a repair of the breach, a restore of past dwell in. The idea that our fasting should bring about a renewal, it should bring about a restoration.

I think it reminds me, we did an episode with, we have a couple episodes leading up to Lent 'cause lit Liturgical season is just rich with like themes and topics. Why would we not capitalize on that? For sure. We did an episode close to Lent a few years ago with Sonya Corbett as a guest, and it [00:03:00] was called God's Ways or Desert Ways.

I just think the desert is this intense place of transformation and that is definitely not how I used to think of desert moments in my life. I'm pretty sure this Sunday's readings are Jesus going out into the desert and fasting for 40 days.

Just seeing like the transformation, living and dwelling within his identity as our savior. I just think those moments of where we all experience deserts, they're meant to transform us. So yeah, I'm really excited. I would say sometimes when we enter the desert that is lent, which like, let's just embrace that Lent is a desert.

Even if we're not entering into it with excitement, it's I can't have meat on Fridays or, oh, I forgot I gave that up. Was woe is me. Yeah. There's a little bit of drudgery in the midst of the fast and the pendants. And maybe we're struggling with the pendants that we chose. So sometimes we're expecting, like you wander into the desert and we expect [00:04:00] death.

But what I guess I am looking forward to, and maybe I would challenge listeners do this lent. Is change our perspective of Lent, just enter into it with this hope of renewal and transformation and being built up. Yeah. I feel like I have some hot takes on as, as you're talking about that like the idea with fasting should come.

It should be sacrificial. Yes. But in that sacrifice, there's a beauty in that it shows us what we're too attached to. Oh, for sure. Like I, I know a lot of people that give up social media and that's a sacrifice during mass. And this is not a criticism of doing that by any means, but if I feel like if you're that attached to social media that giving it up becomes a sacrifice.

Then perhaps you should prayerfully consider always giving it up. Always giving it up for me. I think Lent. It offers that challenge of maybe I'm too attached to that, whatever that particular thing is. Like for some it may be giving up pop. Maybe. Maybe that's a [00:05:00] good way of showing that.

Yeah. Pick your favorite drink, or region. All pop is coke, soda. Oh, really? Yeah. Or I've never said other parts. It's soda. Soda or soda pop. May, I'm not trying to offend anyone.

No. I'm just, it's a hot take for me, and it's a way that I analyze my own heart. In that way too, is. If it's something that feels like a great sacrifice or a sacrifice drudgery more than that seems rational. Maybe it's because I'm too attached. And that's where it's not meant to be.

I guess I have to give something up. So here's the thing I'm going to give up. And it's very inward focused. It's meant to be something that God invites us to. So I know growing up, like I gave up pop and it was something like I was so proud of because then I never drank pop for 10 years as I'm sitting here with a pop in front of me, so it's like I was so proud. Oh yeah. That one lent, I gave up pop, and then it stuck. Who cares? How did that bring me closer to Jesus? Exactly. Who cares? So I guess the thing becomes it's not about what you give up, it's about what is God asking and inviting you into [00:06:00] this transformation in Lent.

And that really begins with inviting God into choosing what's the penance I wanna enter into? This Lent right. Because he wants to do something. The fast is for a reason. Yeah. And I'm going back to, I mentioned in passing Isaiah 58 in the theme for a Let and Retreat we're doing this coming weekend and the readings for Saturday.

The Lord says is not this, the fast that I choose to loose the bonds of wickedness, to undo the thongs of the yoke, to let the apres go free and to break every yoke. Is it not to share your bread with the hungry and bring the homeless pour into your house? But I had a pastor that used to challenge us don't just give up a meal.

Do something with that meal. And he's going back to this scripture passage. The Lord is saying is this not the fast I choose, that not only are you giving up something, but that something is going to someone else in need. Yeah. There's a certain beauty in that it that we see. It's not just for the sake of giving something up.

There's a greater purpose behind it and can we see it that way? So Kara, who was your coke going [00:07:00] to, who was your root beer going to when you were giving up your pop? Yeah, nobody, I was like 14 years old. I didn't have any kind of concept of like sacrificial offering. Exactly.

Yeah. and I think that's normal. And I think that's okay. So again, I wanna say I'm not criticizing anyone, and I was at a point in my relationship with God where we were just like, we are just starting out. We were okay. We weren't friends. We were acquaintances. I believed in him, but I was like, I'll do this for you, but it was more for me 'cause it was healthier, yeah. So if that was the place I'm at, it helps get Yeah, exactly. Yeah. He was using that to bring me to a place where I am at now and then he'll use this SLT to bring me at a place where he wants me to be in 20 years.

When you were saying that. Don't just fast, do something with that meal. It reminds me of the three disciplines that we are called to during lunch and not just lent, but in our Christian life, prayer, fasting and almost giving. And it's almost like when you were saying that, I was like, they're not separated things.

I think I'm gonna fast. Just, I'm just gonna fast. But if we don't have prayer in the fast, that fast is pointless. And if we don't give alms. That fast is pointless. It's kinda like what you're saying. [00:08:00] Don't just give up a meal. Do something with that meal. So it's if we fast from a meal perhaps then grow in generosity.

And go offer that meal to somebody in need. But if none of it is centered around God and United in prayer, what purpose does it have? I wanna touch a little bit too on the specificity of Lent, because we're getting into a lot about penance and offering things up in sacrifice.

Yeah, I skipped ahead, sorry. No, that's fine. Let's do it. So how does penance specifically relate to Lent and like, how is that meant to train our hearts? I go to Hebrews 1211. Hebrews 1211 says, for the moment, all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant. It goes on here, but I wanna stop there for a minute.

For the moment, all discipline seems painful. Rather than pleasant Whatever we get up, give up during Lent does have a certain discomfort with it. Because should it be painful, what, whatever degree we're attached to it is painful. So in a way, yes, it should be painful.

So I'm gonna [00:09:00] go the opposite direction of what I've been saying so far, and that there should be. A challenge to it. It should seem painful 'cause scripture says, for the moment, all discipline seems painful. Rather than pleasant. It goes on to say later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

In other words, penance. These sacrifices, this fasting alms giving prayer. They might be painful, seem painful in the moment. Although it seems weird to say prayer can feel painful in the moment, but if we're honest, there are seasons in our life when pain, when prayer does seem painful. I don't think that's a bad thing.

But those moments of pain are training us. So that the fruit of righteousness would be formed in us. Whenever I think of penance, I think of the Great Saints who just like willingly entered into deep moments of penance. Like Francis, who feasted basically, or fasted basically 24 7.

Or in the legends about St. Clair of Assisi. I'm gonna read it. She says. It says the [00:10:00] holy virgin lay on the bare earth and instead of a pillow, she had a hard piece of wood under her head. So they like enter into intentional penance.

And I remember, St. Benedict, like he once had an extraordinary moment of lust. And so to counter that, he like threw himself naked into a bush bushel of thorns and rolled around. Ouch. Yeah. Won't be doing that again. No. And so it wasn't, obviously that's not, it's not the intention of self-harm, it was an extraordinary moment Yeah.

Of Tempation responded with an extraordinary moment of penance to combat that. And it, his, it did go away. That he never was tempted in that fierce of a way again. So I think it just, when I think of the Great Saints, they didn't do that for themselves. It's not because St. Clair wanted to be written about that.

She was so holy, she never slept on a bed. She did it for a purpose. And if at any point in our penance what we offer up for Lent, what we add as a [00:11:00] discipline for Lent, whatever it might be, if at any point it becomes. self-serving or prideful or even like feeding into a mentality of I have to do it all myself.

Or I'm the one building up. Or if this penance does not draw us towards God, then something's off, right? Because the penance that we have discerned with the Lord, that we are being called to. It's meant to draw us towards God and it's meant to allow his grace to be the one that comes in and does the building up and the transforming. I like what you said just to jump back a sec, if it's something that you are uncomfortable giving up, it means that we have an attachment there. I think that would be a very good thing to give up. Because. If it's something like, I know I was, I would do this when I was younger. I kinda wanna give up this, but that seems really hard. I don't think I'll be able to do it. So then you go for the easier route, there was very little discernment and invitation from God in any of those choices.

[00:12:00] But if you discern it with the Lord that there is this attachment to something and it's impeding your relationship with him, that would be a very fitting thing to give up.

Because the goal in the whole of Christian life, this is just specific to Lent, the goal is to allow God to build us up and to transform us, and to help us to grow in holiness. And this is just a beautiful liturgical season to let him do that. I think, as I'm reflecting on what I need to give up for Lent, 'cause I'm still at that point where, by the time listeners hear this, I've made the decision.

Sure. I'm still at a point of discerning what might be the best sacrifice for me this lent, or is it more a matter of adding than subtracting? Is that what the Lord is asking me? But as we're talking about, what's the thing we're attached to in my head, and maybe this is the, I can tend to scrupulosity and sometimes be a little zealous. I can probably think of 10 things that come to mind where that I should give up. I'm too attached here. I'm too attached here. Gotcha. I think sometimes we also need to come at it as what's the primary [00:13:00] thing? What's the predominant fault, so to speak?

What's the thing? That everything can trace back to. And maybe that's the thing, that I should give up. 'cause if you're like, I'm gonna give up 10 things, five things even that might be too much for you. And you might be setting yourself up for failure during Lent. So maybe discern what's one or two things that would make the maximum impact.

And Kara, I'm going back to what you said about how did giving up Bring me closer to Jesus Christ. Let's say I give up. One meal a day, I'm only gonna eat two meals. What if I used that time that I would've eaten that meal to spend reading the daily readings? And I wouldn't ordinarily do that, but now my mealtime is prayer time.

Prayer time. Yeah. I'm eating the word, so to speak. And then maybe I also give a little bit in, project rice bowl or, then just feed one, one of those sorts of charities that help people have meals. Whatever I would've spent, maybe it's $3. I don't know [00:14:00] how whatever you spend on your lunch.

Yeah. 10 bucks. Where are you getting lunch for $3. Yeah. Yeah. I've heard things. I don't know. That'd be nice. Yeah. I don't know. It's all your secrets, but if it costs $3, you probably shouldn't eat it. Yeah, I'm just gonna throw that out there. It was just the first number that came to mind, Kara.

I feel like what you're saying too is it's not even necessarily, oh, I'm gonna do five things or 10 things. Because sometimes we can be like, okay, if I give up this and then I'm going to add this prayer to my everyday devotions, and then I'm also gonna give to the poor here, then it starts to almost feel extremely overwhelming because in our mind it's now a list of, 3, 5, 7 things.

And it's I can't do all of this. Maybe the way to view it is. If we're giving something up and you don't even have to have like your to-do list laid out bullet points, what are you replacing it with? But just intentionally, if I'm giving something up, how am I drawing closer to God in that?

So in your [00:15:00] example where it's, if I'm going to fast for a meal, then I'm going to take that time that I'm sparing from not having to sit down to eat and I'm going to go and pray. Or let's say somebody's giving up social media. If you are attached to social media, to the point where you have discerned, you should give that up.

It probably means you're spending an hour or plus on social media, right? So you have a free hour in your day, put in a holy hour, right? But rather than making it a, I'm gonna give up this and do this, and having it feel overwhelming, just intentionally be like, I am going to spend more time with God, this Lent and the thing that I've given up.

Now almost just allows me that time. Yeah. Whatever it might be. And the device could actually be your pathway to doing that. Like maybe you're not normally on Hallow or the Ascension app. You give up social media, now's a great time to pray with Gwen Stefani or Chris Pratt or you know what?

Whoever is on, on hallow at the moment. Like use that time. I know a lot of people doing Bible in a year. Bible in a year. Yeah. Use that time [00:16:00] productively. Yeah. pop Leo just said abstain from harsh words and rash judgment, this lent.

Oh, I like that. So there's a challenge. How much time do we waste, with harsh words and rash judgment? What if we use that time? To build people up to edify, to build the kingdom rather than tearing people down. And I we, there was a homily this Sunday at our church that was actually very similar to that because it was going off of the gospel reading, if I'm remembering right.

It was, Jesus preaching, you say, don't kill. I say, don't even be angry. You say, don't you know, don't commit adultery. I say, don't even look with less. So it's like doubling down on our invitation to holiness. And so the gospel was. Like how we will be judged by how our heart was towards another person and not like how we treated them in the moment to their face, but how our heart was to them.

Did we have forgiveness? Did we have hatred? Do we have anger? So I really like that. That's a good, that's a good challenge. Think of somebody maybe in your life [00:17:00] that like you have a hardened heart towards. Or you have unforgiveness towards ask God to heal. In the midst of that because when we have these disciplines in the church, I recently heard this, which I from like an a teaching standpoint, I have always associated prayer, fasting and alms giving with combating spiritual temptations, which is absolutely true.

But I recently heard that they also are three disciplines that bring healing. I love that like prayer heals our relationship with God. Fasting heals our relationship with ourselves, and alms heals our relationship with others. I love that.

So it's if there's something that you struggle with, maybe it's identity, fasting can bring healing in the midst of that. If it's done united to God, maybe you have anger towards a person. Alms can increase our charity and our generosity. That helps. So you know the second half of this question.

How does penance relate to Lent? The second half is how is it meant to train our hearts? Because Lent invites us to so [00:18:00] many tr transformative devotions or disciplines that it is meant to penetrate. And it's meant to be this time of transformation. Yeah. Amen. I really to, this is one of my favorite passages in Matthew 16.

It says, if you wish to come after me, deny yourself, take up the cross and follow me. And I think that's just one of the biggest. Opportunities in penance is just that spiritual death to self and embracing. Like just embracing, denying ourselves. Pope Benedict the 16th, I don't know if he actually said this, so I have been doing research into the, into his quote from World Youth Day.

You were not made for comfort, you were made for greatness. I think it's a paraphrase actually. I don't know if it's a direct quote. Because I have not been able to find the direct quote. So if somebody has it, please, I would like to properly cite it. I'm pretty sure it's a paraphrase of what he was saying to the adults or the young adults there, but it wasn't an exact quote.

But basically the paraphrase [00:19:00] associated with Pope Benedict the 16th is The world promises you comfort. You were not made for comfort, you were made for greatness. And so this like. Invitation to really deny ourselves and embrace across is an invitation to let go of what those comforts are. And in that we are united more closely to Jesus.

And so that's, I would say that's how, like the retraining of our heart comes, is just embracing the heart of Christ as we embrace penance and suffering. Yeah, so talking about death to self, we actually start, if you guys have gone to Ash Wednesday, mass today, it's not a holy day of obligation, but Lent is a beautiful time of preparation.

So what better time to begin it for us than to, go and feed on his word, go and receive the Eucharist. So hopefully you had an opportunity to go to Ash Wednesday, mass. When we go there and we receive the ashes, we hear these words, you are dust and to dust you shall return it. It comes from Genesis three, says in the sweat of your [00:20:00] face, you shall eat bread till you return to the ground for out of it you were taken.

You are dust and to dust you shall return. I was talking about death to self. We actually begin lent with this very idea of death. Fred, why do you think that is? Why is this like what we initially hear in Lent? For me, it calls to mind the gospel message itself. We look at creation, how man was formed from essentially the dust.

We see the fall death as a consequence of sin. We see. Even the redemption that re repentance brings Gospel hope. Jesus said its first words in Mark, we hear him saying is proclaiming the kingdom. Repent and believe the kingdom is at hand. So it calls to mind that gospel message, I think we can see in this that death is not.

Natural in the sense of God originally intended. It entered the world through sin. As Romans five 12 tells us, the ashes confront us with the reality [00:21:00] that sin has consequences. The decisions we make in this life have consequences. 

the hardness of our heart has consequences. Yet we see in scripture again. Where we are in the grand scheme of things, how the Lord created us from dust. Our life is just a flicker as we read in scripture. We only have so much time and it's a reminder and it should humble us to remember, that God is God and we're not.

It calls to mind the sovereignty of God for me. Two things come to mind when. I was reflecting on you are dust. A dust you shall return. Like how is this about death and even more, how does it matter for my life like that it is about death and that I hear these words and I think the first thing that came to mind is very relevant to what you were saying, like sin matters and it reminds us of the consequence of sin.

So the first thing that I was thinking like we should be ever preparing for our death. That's St. Eu, the business of the Christian is to be ever [00:22:00] preparing for death. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. And I was thinking of that, phrase, memento Maori. Remember that you must die. A lot of the saints they're depicted with like skulls on their desk or a skull ring or something.

And it's not the occult, it's this idea. They're remembering their dust and the dust they shall return. And seeing that is a reminder that we only get one life. And I don't say that I don't know, I think sometimes What's that cheesy phrase like. Don't put off today what you can do tomorrow or something.

Don't put off to tomorrow what you could do today. Thank you. The other version is the procrastinator version. Ah, why do it today? I can do it tomorrow. Don't put off to tomorrow what you could. 

do today. And a lot of times like that's almost. Said, as in a YOLO mentality, you only live once, so eat that dessert, go on vacation, live your life. But it's very true in terms of our search for God and our desire for holiness. Just, I think hearing those words at the start of a time [00:23:00] that is meant to be very transformative.

That's meant to be, not about giving up, but being built up. It reminds us that it's this very short life. That does the building up to prepare us for eternity, right? That's what came to mind was that we should be ever preparing for our death and remember, like why would we put off a relationship with God and what he's calling us to and holiness for tomorrow.

Yeah. And especially scripture makes us clear and there's numerous scripture, scripture passages that you could cite for this. Tomorrow's promise to nobody. Exactly. Even, this is something I've been reflecting on a lot, especially over the last, I'd say six months, but, and we're recording this, it's February 16th, 20 20 20, 2023.

it's interesting when we think about it, this is the only February. What's the date? 16th February 16th, 2026. I will ever get. Yeah. And so how am I gonna live this day? Yeah, because it's sealed, the [00:24:00] present moment is an illusion. 

But the idea of, the moment we're in the present moment, the moment we're aware it's already the past. Does that make sense? Yeah.

Like the present is just, it's a flicker. Our future. Like the second you recognize that you are living in the present, that present moment has already passed. You passed, yeah. Yeah. And so what are we, what the grace of the present moment comes in mind here.

What are we making of that moment? Yeah. The dust is not the end. I like the, there's hope in it. It's there's hope throughout this short life too. There is. Yeah. There should be. Absolutely. Because it's the hope we have in God and the resurrection and eternal life. And we started by saying Lent feels pregnant with hope.

I think that's it's not, you are dust and you will die. It's not meant to be just this like death judgment. Remember your death. It's not meant to be something that is without like joy and laughter and hope. Because the dust is not the end, like we will live eternally.

It's just a reminder [00:25:00] that we're meant to live now for the eternity that we desire. I said two things kinda stood out. So that was like the first one that related to your, is like we should be always preparing for a death. I think the second one, at least for me that stood out is that God is the one that holds me together.

This passage jumps back to creation, obviously when God created us. So if I be began as dust and I will return to dust, then like this is just what I was reflecting on as I was like praying with this particular Genesis passage. If I was made outta dust and I will return to dust, what's happening in between and the in, yeah, I could say life, but the in-between is God.

God is the one that holds all things together. This is scriptural. It's in Colossians chapter one, starting in verse 16. It says, for in him all things were created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible. All things were created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all [00:26:00] things hold together.

I was talking about this with, our kids the other night actually, we were doing our evening prayers and I forget how it came up, but basically we were talking about how God's love is the reason that we are all here. And my daughter, she's eight. She goes, what does that mean? If he didn't love me, I wouldn't be here and yeah.

Actually, like he, we broke it down for her. We're like, the Bible tells us that God is love. And so if at any point he were to stop loving you. He's not God, just to give her that affirmation. 'cause she was like, if God doesn't love me, I wouldn't be here. It's hold on. But he can never not love you.

And that's what holds all things together. It's actually in the catechism too. It's in paragraph 3 0 1 with creation. God does not abandon his creatures to themselves. He not only gives them being and existence, but also at every moment oppose and sustains them in being at, and that continues through eternity.

Through eternity. Yeah. So like dust is not the end for us, but what's between the dust? What's between my [00:27:00] creation and my death? It's God. And it's his love because that's what holds me together to live a life for eternity. So like those are like the things I guess as I was praying for.

Entering into mass on Ash Wednesday, what is going to be this like reception of these words and these ashes? What's gonna mean to me this year? And that's kinda what came to mind. It's like God is literally everything, right? Even that word return, from dust. You were, you come from dust, you shall return, even that word return.

It carries a lot of meaning with it. 'cause what's our origin? It's God himself. Where do we return to God himself. And I think that's why Ash Wednesday, the very first reading, I think this is every year begins with, even now, says the Lord return to me with your whole heart. Return to me with your whole heart.

And what that, what's that getting at? Is that interior conversion? Yeah, that's what I was thinking. That, we're called to. It says in Catechism 1431. Since you're gonna pull from the catechism imt, of course we are a Catholic podcast. Yes. [00:28:00] Interior repentance is a radical reorientation of our whole life.

A return, a conversion to God with all our heart. An end of sin, a turning away from evil with repugnant toward the evil actions we have committed. Return to me with your whole heart. That's. Splint is that season of return. That comes to mind with, I know we're talking about ashes and dust and what does that have to do with death and all this, but.

It means a return to God. That's what he's calling from us. That's what he wants. That's what he desires. Yeah. In that too, I hear a lot of God's mercy. Like it's this invitation to return to him. And what, when you said that, that was my initial thought was Lent is such a beautiful time of conversion and reconversion.

And reconversion. Like we're constantly experiencing these little moments where we turn away from. Something that is not of God and we turn back towards God. But even in Lent, it's actually extremely easy and I would venture extremely common to get discouraged. Oh, I didn't do very well and I forgot it was [00:29:00] Friday and I ate meat and like we have these prescribed, if you will.

Disciplines that we are meant to carry out during Lent. And so if we mess up, it's easy to almost get like very discouraged on ourselves as if we need to throw all of Lent away. 'cause We've messed it up too badly. But guess what? Lent is not on you. Lent is a time where we're uniting to God and God's grace is moving you, and God's grace is doing something within you. So it's like for all of the entire, the entirety of Christian life, it's not just Lent, but I love that return to me with your whole heart. It's we can look to that with hope throughout all of Lent.

Like when we mess up or get discouraged or forgot to fast from me or whatever. It's like return to me. It's okay. Return to me your whole heart. Yeah. Yeah. It's okay. Like I'm not sitting here judging you as a condemning father. I'm inviting you. Yeah. Scripture. The Lord's mercies are new every morning. Yeah.

Okay, last kind of reflection question for us. We've talked a lot about hope, joy. What's that passage you always [00:30:00] quote? Jesus endured the cross. Jesus endured the cross for the joy that was set before you, for the joy that was set before you. What was the joy that came after his cross?

Ultimately his resurrection. Resurrection, yeah. So we talk about how Lent is a time of building up and a time of the desert is a time of transformation. So what does the role. Of resurrection, this like idea of resurrection play in shaping how we approach lent, how we approach sacrifice, penance, interior life.

What is this role of, and this idea of resurrection, like how does that shape our lent? I think without the resurrection lent could be potentially seen as pretty grim. Yeah. And pretty desolate and lonely without any really sense, real sense of the why behind it. However, sacrifice only makes sense if death is not the end.

Yeah. And I think that we are in Easter people and Hallelujah is our song as Pope Benedict said. We are on the path toward [00:31:00] Easter and the be the beautiful thing about the crucifix is that we know that the resurrection comes three days later. And so we can carry that hope with us throughout our sacrifice, throughout all of Lent.

We can say with St. Paul, oh, death, where is thy victory? Oh, death. Where is thy sting? Thanks be to God who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. I see a lot of like joy and hope, obviously, in the resurrection, but yeah, if we don't look forward to a resurrection or keep that in mind, then it just makes everything in vain.

Paul says that, he says, if we don't believe that Jesus rose from the dead, then our faith is in vain. His death was in vain. Yeah. Basically, to put it in a modern paraphrase, we should go do anything else. Yeah. Let's party. Let's live it up. If Jesus didn't raise from the dead, then what the heck are we all doing?

Our faith is in vain. Yes. Yeah. And so it's the same with penance. It's the same with embracing a cross with Lent. If we are not looking towards the resurrection and not just [00:32:00] Jesus's resurrection, our own resurrection. 

And obviously, like for our listeners, the sorrowful mysteries are the walk with Jesus along the path of Holy Week. And it ends with the crucifixion as the fifth mystery. I feel like God is walking me through his sorrowful mysteries and like those are the things we were experiencing.

But then comes the resurrection, is how I'm remembering it. Yeah. And it was like one of those, it was one of those things that I'm like, no idea where that came from. So like I, I trust that it was the Holy Spirit wanted to say that to you. Because I'm not that smart, like a hundred percent.

yeah, but Fred, what comes after the crucifixion? I feel like that's like a word for all of us. Is the invitation to embrace the cross is not do it for its own sake. It's the hope that of the resurrection that the Lord wants to bring about within you, because God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

His ways that he has worked are beautiful and similar, and we see this throughout scripture like we see Abraham, his sacrifice. Led to the promises. We see [00:33:00] this. I know Job is one of your, favorite, people in scripture. He sacrificed and lost so much. And in the end, there's a resurrection and he received gifts.

Joseph of the Old Testament, like he is betrayed by his brothers. He's sold off. He is imprisoned. I'm going through a litany of scripture in Genesis 50 20 about Joseph. It says, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good.

So we see, and obviously in Jesus, like we see it with the people of Israel. Like you can name countless examples, but obviously with the person of Jesus, he willingly sacrificed for the joy of the resurrection. It's annoying when we are in the midst of the suffering and the sacrifice in the cross, and we're like, hold on.

I'm not a willing, I'm not willing. You're, I'm just in the midst of suffering. But what if we changed our mentality to be willing, because we see it as a gift. And when I say it can be frustrating because we're like, I know there's a resurrection at the end. Can't I just be there? But it's [00:34:00] the wandering, it's the 40 days. It's the 40 years. It's the desert. Yeah. That's what gets us to the resurrection. Because it's a place of transformation, can we see every small death of Lin as one step closer to the resurrection? Yeah. Yeah. I would say I have two challenges. One, is there a resurrection in your life that you know you need?

And then I guess the bigger challenge would be as we are beginning lent this ash Wednesday, what have you chosen as your sacrifice? What is the cross that the Lord is asking you to embrace? And I would just invite you to really prayerfully invite God into that and discern. Is this something that is purposeful?

Is this something that God is asking me to do and is it stretching me to a place where I will be in a desert with Christ for these 40 days and I get to experience his [00:35:00] resurrection?