Grafting transcribed
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Fred: [00:00:00] Thank you for joining us on Draw Near Rooted in the Catholic faith. This is more than a podcast. It's a space where authenticity meets joy. We're two best friends, navigating life, family, and faith with honesty and a lot of love. Every episode is a heartfelt conversation, sometimes deep, often lighthearted, and always real.

Our hope is to inspire you as we all grow closer to Christ and to one another. We're so glad you're here. Let's draw near. Hi friends. Hello. We have not had an episode in a while where it has been both Fred and I, but we are excited to be back in our studio recording. I just didn't want to be with you, is what it was.

Oh, stop. Um, no, we did share, I think in our still here episode, just like some very intentional changes and refocusing. Um, and so if you. Kinda wonder like, oh, is it both of them this time or we've been [00:01:00] calling 'em solos. We're just kinda having, uh, you moved away from shorties, I take it. No, shorties are shorter ones, but these ones haven't been short.

They've just not been with both of us. Mine have years been short on. Yeah. Um, but there has been a lot going on because there were intentional things that we were refocusing on, but also things that God is doing. So it's been, um. You know, a time where we need to give you guys updates. Mm-hmm. And 'cause a lot has been going on.

So I know, Fred, you have a, a big update for. Your family life? Yeah, I do. We have, uh, baby number seven arrived, um, about almost six weeks ago. Yeah. By the time you hear us it's been six, six weeks. But, uh, Sophia hope she'll be baptized this weekend, so we're excited about that. Yeah. I think you shared in one of the episodes that you were thinking about that name.

What drew you to Sophia? The past few years have been not easy. Mm-hmm. Uh, for our family. And, uh, so it's, it's required a lot of hope and a lot of trust in God's mercy. And so Sophia [00:02:00] means wisdom. And so, um, thinking back on how all of our kids are named in a way after the season we're in at the time. Very biblical to do that.

Yeah. Um, so we, we just kept thinking, our hope is in the wisdom of the Lord. Our hope is in the wisdom of the Lord. Yeah. So Sophia, hope, that's what she's, that's what her name means. I love that. Yeah. Definitely a time needing, needing hope. I told that to somebody and they responded very differently than I expected.

It was like, oh. I wish I would've named my kids like that. Like I didn't mean to make you feel bad by, yeah. By how I named my, or how we named our children, but that wasn't my intention. But it's a beautiful thing to do, I think, throughout scripture. Yeah. You also never know, like you might have picked a name, but God also had a hand in picking the name.

So look up the medium of the name. Amen. Amen. Yeah. It, it, it is that God does have a hand in, in naming our kids. Yeah. Do you have any other, um, we have a couple, um, just changes in writing things [00:03:00] that we're doing and yeah, I think it's been an exciting, however many months it's been since we've been together.

Yeah. That, that, that I can share. I can't share the details, but I am working on another big writing project too. Two technically big writing projects, so, um, yeah, that's keeping me busy right now, so, yeah. I don't know if anybody has ever. Sat down to write a book or write a, you know, right. Write a big project.

Um, I even sometimes am like trying to think of writing a blog post. Like it's just so, it does take a lot of time. I, I've heard it compared to having a baby. Oh yeah. And I feel like that's pretty accurate. Probably like from my limited Except you don't get 40 weeks. Yeah. Yes. No, you don't. From my limited perspective of what's that like?

It, uh, I think at times it does feel like, that certainly feels. Stressful deadlines and stuff like that. It's uh, it's a joy having done it. I, uh. We've done it enough at this point. I feel comfortable saying I'm a freelance writer. There you go. That's why I feel like I can [00:04:00] add that to my LinkedIn that I don't have now I'm a freelance writer.

Yeah. But, uh, yeah. Well, and I know we shared a while ago that we had worked on a project and pretty soon we'll be able to share what that was. Yes. We can't right now, but yeah. Yeah. So I'm trying to think if I have anything to update. You're pretty boring, Kara. I know I'm pretty boring. I don't have a ton of updates.

I'm pretty boring. But, um, there are some changes coming. I know in. In a recent episode, we talked a little bit about, um, like social media things and even I shared my own struggles with social media and how kind of getting lost in like discouragement. Um, so we have some, um, changes coming to our social pages and I think it really started one, it started on Ash Wednesday and felt like, um, it was the Lord kind of placing something, um, and revealing, uh, next steps, which I.

Argued with him for like a couple weeks about them. Just, um, he brought a lot of clarity and I needed to make sure that it [00:05:00] wasn't my, my thoughts or our thoughts, but God's thoughts. Mm-hmm. And so just fully trusting that like his next steps are true, and I'm actually really excited about them. And you guys know from past episodes, like social media was not something that excited me.

It was. I, I think what excites me is that I've never found this particular thing. On social media, um, if that makes sense. So it's like just really trying to, to set apart a space for interior life and interior growth and, um, love and answer that question. What makes us different? I think that, I always go back to that question, Kara, there's so many podcasters you could be listening to.

There's, there's millions of podcasts and the Catholic podcast is a crowded space and Christian podcasting is even more crowded. So yeah. Um, how do you stand out in the crowd? How do you offer something that is different, that is, but also worth listening to? I think that's, yeah. What we're praying and [00:06:00] discerning now.

Yeah. And it felt very much like one of those moments where we've always said, you know, draw near to God, draw near to one another. And it felt like one of those moments where it was like. This is actually how I want you to do this. Um, I want you to help hearts draw near to me, but also in a community that's full of love and charity and respect and safety.

So, um, that is coming soon. That's kind of one of the efforts we're we've been working on too, and. It might seem weird that like solo episodes are like, oh, well they're doing other stuff, so we don't get to hear from both of them. Sometimes it does make it a little bit, um, a little bit easier when, you know, if Fred has a writing project or if I'm working on something over here too, so we can get.

Get all of the things done, um, especially with, you know, seven kids, four kids, family life, things like that. So we hope that you have still experienced joy and blessings from those episodes as well. And if you hate the solo episodes, just let us know. Please. Can I, can I take it? No, I'm just kidding. I can take it.[00:07:00] 

Um, yeah, do, I mean you're welcome to let us know, but I am excited for us to be back in the studio together. Yeah. For this episode. Okay. So kind of going and building off of that call more to dive deeper into the interior life and spiritual growth, because you said, you know this, this Catholic space is really saturated.

There's so many resources out there, so many places that you can be taught about apologetics or different topics, and I think there are resources out there that help us grow in prayer. But what are those, where are those places that you go to that are like intentionally walking with you in your interior life towards God?

Um, so we're gonna kind of focus in this particular episode on that, on the interior life and walking, walking that way. So I have recently been rereading, um, the book Interior Freedom. I don't know if anyone's ever read it. It's called Jacques Philippe. I know a lot of people have read it, but I don't know if any of our listeners, if you are familiar.

It's called Interior Freedom, and there's a passage in [00:08:00] here that was like one of those pricking of the heart moments because so often we see what's wrong in the world. What's that one famous passage like What's wrong in the world is me? Oh yeah, it's GK Chesterton. Um, yeah, basically. All that's wrong in the world is me.

The direct quote is escaping me at the moment, but he says, what's wrong with the world? It it's me. It's me. Yeah. It reminded me a lot of, like that scripture passage. We see the spec in another's eye, but we don't see the beam in our own, and so, so often it's easy for us to look at the world and see all of the problems with the world, but this book has really kind of been one of those pricking moments of like, the things that are wrong in the world are not going to be solved by all of these external efforts.

It's the Interior Heart. It's you. It's every single person. It's every one of us. And this is a book that should be, I, I think, required reading for every Catholic who, yeah, takes. Takes a spiritual life or wants to take this spiritual life seriously. Yeah. Should be required reading. It's a [00:09:00] hundred pages, but it's one of those books you could read it a hundred times.

Yeah. And get something different from it each time. Yeah. This is my second time reading it and the first time I went through it, I, I write in my books. I don't know if that. Angers people sometimes angers like book covers. It does. I write in my books, um, in the margins and going through it. The second time I see my blue pen marks and my pencil marks from the first time, and now I have a, a black pen.

So it's like the piece, she does that to the Bible too. I, I do do, she's got a whole commentary in the mi margins, but I, I have a specific Bible that gets the notes. The other one's more of like. The prayer and the contemplation one so you can make both people happy. Yeah. The one that sees that is, how could you possibly do that and Yeah.

Well, well, I mean, in grad school, like it was like a study bible, you know? Mm-hmm. But yeah, it's cool like getting to see what stood out the first time around and then four and a half years later, what stood out, what standing out this time. But kind of going back to that, um. It should be required reading because, not even for people who are like, well, I take it seriously, but really it [00:10:00] gets at the heart of Christian life, which is love, and just this interior trust that brings about peace.

Interior freedom, I love like that's such a good title. You just feel freer. I feel like when we like read this, read this book and apply the graces that God is speaking through the book. Anyways, I'm gonna read a passage and this is kind of, um, it'll get out like the topic for today. So this passage says, ultimately we have just one moral duty to reclaim large areas of peace in ourselves, more and more peace, and to reflect it towards others.

And the more peace there is in us, the more peace there will also be in our troubled world. I love that. Just seeing the thing that's going to heal the world is true charity, love and peace. But like we always say, you know what, what do you want? I want world peace. Okay. But that peace starts with you and it starts to interiorly and with your heart.

Like I even, I think he, he says [00:11:00] reclaim that peace, right? Yeah. If I remember correctly. Yeah. I, I think that gets to our original creation, how we were created. Is in a space with that, that inner peace. Uh, and then as a result of the fall, we gradually more and more have lost that piece. Yeah. Uh, through concupiscence and.

You know, our inclinations towards sin and yeah. You know, our tendency to be selfish, our tendency even to tear ourselves down. I think all those things rob us of that piece that should be, at least by God's design, something we enjoyed. Yeah. And I think even a little pride and control. Like this morning I was leaving a, a parking lot and somebody cut in front of me and they were turning left and I was turning right, and they had to wait for every possible car and we sat there for five minutes because they had to turn left.

I felt in my, like, I felt frustration rising up like, well, if you wouldn't have cut me off, like I wouldn't have to sit here too. 'cause I could have turned, right? Mm-hmm. And I was on the phone with somebody and I, I like, caught myself multiple times wanting to vent about this [00:12:00] particular situation. I was in that moment and it was like, I'm trying to control this situation.

I have no control over this person driving. I have no control over getting to sit, like sitting here and waiting for five minutes. It wasn't five minutes right. But sitting here longer than I had to and it was stealing. That, just that moment, just that one moment of peace and calm. Why? For nothing. Like, you know, I, I mean I was found my way here, but I was about to say like I had nowhere to go, but like, you're not gonna be mad 'cause I'm three minutes late because I had to sit behind a car.

You know? That's what you think. Yeah. Yeah. But so often I feel like those moments that steal the peace that we have been already given and we let get stolen. Mm-hmm. They're so small. And they're oftentimes things that we have no control over. Mm-hmm. So, all right. What does that have to do with today's episode?

We're really focusing in on the, this interior life. And so we wanna actually read a passage and maybe at first glance it might not, um, like we might not immediately see it, how it goes with the interior life, but we're obviously going to get into [00:13:00] that, and we're gonna dive a little bit deeper into the themes of this particular passage and just how these themes can really guide our heart.

And the. Deeper call that God is giving us to have this peace and to rely that on him for the, that piece. Mm-hmm. So for the context of this passage, it's Paul writing and he's speaking about the Jewish people who he's coming from a place of, um, I don't wanna, I mean maybe frustration or like wonder of like, why have so many of God's people rejected Christ.

And so he is talking about, um, the Jewish people. As we kind of get into this, and then he'll switch and then he'll talk specifically to the Gentiles who are not, um, a part of God's, you know, covenantal family in the Old Testament. And he seems to have a confidence in God's wisdom, in God's plan in that.

And at no point do you walk away feeling like he's condemning [00:14:00] either. Yeah. People. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So we're gonna pull from Romans 11 for these readings, uh, starting with verse 11. So I ask, have they stumbled so as to fall by no means, but through their trespass, salvation has come to the Gentiles so as to make Israel jealous.

Now, if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean? Now I'm speaking to you Gentiles, and as much then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry. If some of the branches were broken off and you a wild olive chute were grafted in their place to share the richness of the olive tree do not boast over the branches.

If you do boast, remember, it is not you that support the root, but the root that supports you. You will say branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in. That is [00:15:00] true. They were broken off because of their unbelief. You stand fast only through faith. So do not become proud, but it stand in awe for if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you.

Note then the kindness and the severity of God severity toward those who have fallen. But God's kindness to you provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you too will be cut off. And even the others, if they do not persist in their unbelief, will be grafted in. For God has the power to graft them in again, for if few have been cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree and grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree.

How much more will these natural branches be grafted back into their own olive tree? Gosh, I love this passage. For me, what stands out in this, and I'll come, I, I wanna hear from you too, Fred. What stands out for you? For me, it's like the whole [00:16:00] context. Like he's speaking of the Jewish people who have rejected Christ and he's using this analogy of an olive tree and how those, they're the original branches and in their rejection they've been cut off.

But it's, it's not a permanent, okay, well I made a decision and I'm rejecting Christ and you are never allowed back in. And so I love that. Kindness and he brings that kindness of God back in because he is like, how if you have been grafted in and you are foreigners like you're a foreign branch, how much easier will it be for the natural branches to come back in?

It's almost like this invitation, like, you've rejected me, so you've been cut off. But in love and in kindness, I want you back. But also like how he talks about in, in their rejection, it's opened this door for the Gentiles to come in and like Paul's ministry going to the Gentiles and for them to come in and be also grafted to this tree and to be joined into the family of God.

I don't know. It just, I, the context is what [00:17:00] stands out to me and like all I see in it is just God's kindness. Like I want everyone. I want everyone. Right. Yeah. What stands out to you? I think in the overall context, what stands out is God's providence and his initiative. Mm-hmm. God's chosen people. Um.

Israel and it also demonstrates his faithfulness to the covenants throughout history. Yeah. Uh, and his whole plan, going back to the promise to Abraham, you see he'll be a blessing to every nation. Mm-hmm. You see that coming forth in, in this passage. And really it's, although he is talking about some being cut off, he's also the promise of.

Those being grafted back in who were cut off. Yeah. And you just, you see a beauty in his faithfulness to the covenants. Yeah. And just how everything connects. Like in Jeremiah 31, it says, I'll make a new covenant with, um, the people of Israel. So it's like, you know, in this time when Paul's teaching, 10 tribes have been lost, uh, to [00:18:00] the whole people of Israel.

So that's, they're Jews, that's the tribe of Judah and Benjamin. And so here it's like the Gentiles. Might be those lost tribes. You know, they've, they've intermingled, intermarried, um, generations have come and it's, it's everybody. And so when he's preaching to the Gentiles and saying, you're being gra, you're being grafted back in, it's like they could also be God's chosen people and they were lost.

So there's just a lot of, like you said, a lot of providence mm-hmm. In, in his plan in this. I also see where he says, if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean? So it's like there has been a plan in their rejection, like God, Romans A 28.

God uses all things for the good of those who love him and Yes. And are called according to His purpose. His purpose. Yep. Yeah. I just see that here where he's like. They have left and now we're bringing in the Gentiles. And then verse 14, uh, which we [00:19:00] didn't actually read, verse 14 says, in order to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some, some of them.

So like seeing the Gentiles being brought in. Can stir up this almost holy jealousy. Mm-hmm. Um, if that's such a thing. Mm-hmm. Um, I think it is Paul Paul saying it right here. Right. That it's bringing about a good, like, oh, well I want that. Mm-hmm. And they're gonna come back in and they're gonna receive him because of that.

So I just see a lot of, like, God is using this for, for the good, but the part that, um, I think for the episode, we wanna really like just. Unpack, like, I just see it as like taking a magnifying glass on this one word and just looking at this one word. Mm-hmm. Um, we heard it multiple times in this passage, and that word was grafting.

Grafting. I don't know if any of our listeners are just big gardeners, but I mean, most people, if you're a gardener, you probably at least know what grafting is. I'm not a gardener, so it took a little bit of like researching [00:20:00] and looking in because that word just kept. Um, standing out. And it's not just a, a gardening thing, I guess, though.

Um, it can be, you know, you have, um, it could be in like in the medical field, bone grafts, skin grafts. Gum. Gum grafts. Gum grafts. She just discovered as a thing. I know I had a dentist appointment. I'm have to get gum graft, um, and planting grafts. And so I looked at the definition as far as like planting goes, and it says the act or process of joining two plants or plant parts so that they grow as one.

They grow as one. And here obviously Paul is talking about a tree. So he's talking about the plant side. But basically it's this method of connecting two living pieces or of of plants, and then they continue to grow together as that plant. So there are two aspects to it. Um, the first is the root stock, root stock or the stalk.

And that's like if, if this is an olive tree, that would be like the base of the tree, the roots, the trunk, and so forth. And then there's [00:21:00] something called the scion, and that's the plant or the branch that you are, um, grafting into that root stock to be used for the fruit. Leaves, the flowers, the fruits and so forth.

And in this process, the two are, are brought together. They're bound together in such a way that allows there to be this exchange of water, nutrient support, and it it becomes like this living union. So I think it's such a beautiful imagery to think about that in terms of people. And in this passage, what's the root?

What's the root stock? It's God's family. Mm-hmm. Right. It's being grafted to God and his family and we are those branches meant to go and and bear fruit. And I think sometimes when we think of bearing fruit, it's like. All of the things we do and the works that we do in the world from God are meant to like bring people and bring goodness.

But I don't know. [00:22:00] I've kind of actually had like this, this came in in a a time of spiritual direction. I had this moment where I realized like spiritual fruit. Isn't always the thing that you can see your work bringing about in other people. It's what God is bringing about in you, like a growth in virtue or a change right in direction, like a conversion that happens in your heart.

So I think even some of that, the fruit that comes from being grafted to the Lord is this change in our heart. That is meant to bring about the fruit. I think we can see that in, if we look at what the fruit of the spirit is in Galatians, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.

Um, all those things are interior things. Yeah. Um, there they should be signs to others of what they see in us that we are bearing fruit in our. In our life. It comes from Galatians five, which, funny enough, going back to how you started [00:23:00] begins with For freedom, Christ has set us free stand fast, therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery's.

Like your freedom. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, as you were saying that, that's exactly what I was thinking. I was like all of those, the fruits of the spirit, I'm like, that's a dear freedom. Yeah. Just that peace, joy reminds me of the passage in John 15 where it talks about like abiding. Mm-hmm. I know you, I know you have a lot on abiding in God.

Yes. Abide me and I in you, and you shall bear. Much fruit apart from me. You can do nothing. Abide me and I in you and you will bear fruit. It's a promise. Yeah. It's a promise that you'll bear fruit. What's that fruit again, going back to what we just said, it's gentleness, self-control. Mm-hmm. It's, it's freedom ultimately.

Yeah. Well, and that's not to say like I feel like it's super easy to read that passage. Abide in, you will bear fruit. Like the good things that you do are going to bring about good elsewhere. It's super easy to read that passage. And associate it exteriorly. And it's not to say that that's not the case, right?

Like exteriorly, even apart from God, we [00:24:00] can do nothing. But I think it adds so much more richness, right? To think of it as fruits, interior fruits, interior, it's it's fruits within me. And those fruits then ripple outward bear more fruit, right? Yeah. As they go. But like if it doesn't start interiorly in the heart.

There's just a lot of like, depth mm-hmm. To thinking of, of this idea, of grafting in that way. It's so beautiful. I don't know. I even see, um, like in the medical side, on the medical side, like when you think of a, a skin graft, like a lot of times that happens when there's a severe burn or something, but to heal.

And to graft a new, a new healthy piece of skin to that, to that burn. Like you have to cut away something, you have to cut away that old skin. And then they stitch the new healthy skin to it and it takes a lot of time to heal. And that new skin is like taking oxygen. It's taking nutrients from the tissues underneath.

New blood vessels eventually start to grow into that new skin that has been placed on there. [00:25:00] So it just like, I just see. Obviously this is talking about olive trees, talking about planting, but I just see so much beauty in this idea of grafting that, you know, Paul even warns against it, don't become boastful because it's not you bearing the fruit.

It's the root, right? It's the root that bears the fruit within you. Poet, and you didn't even know it. Carol, did I rhyme? Yeah. It's the root that bears the fruit. I like it. That's the title for the episode. Not really, but what if, what if? Um, but I, no, I like this idea of, of cutting, like with the skin graft because it goes with even gardening and planting in the olive tree.

Because in order to take a branch that does not belong like the gentiles. Graft them to the family of God. What happens is you have to cut the branch, and then you have to cut the root and place both of those together and bind them together. There's a cutting that has to happen in order for [00:26:00] this like new life to be brought together as one in this union.

And so the word actually in Romans 11, which we read from the word used for grafting is en trigo. I probably am saying this wrong. N Kenzo. Yeah, I'm definitely saying that wrong, but that's what it's, that's the word. I'll put it in the show and I'll seek it up the spelling. But this first, the n means in or into, and Kenzo means to prick or to pierce.

So into the prick. Into the pierce. So to be grafted to the rootstock, which is God, we have to be pricked and we have to be pierced. I, I think that alone could be like its entire, an entire. Retreat, honestly. Mm-hmm. Like multiple talks on this. To be grafted to God is to enter into the prick or to enter into the pierce.

That looks so different for everybody. Mm-hmm. Like it could just be this interior moment where God pricks the heart and [00:27:00] challenges you on one specific thing. It could be this deep hurt and question. It could be a rejection. At first, right? Because Paul's saying they rejected God, but he wants them back.

He wants to bring them back, and then there's this maybe holy jealousy, this piercing. Mm-hmm. So what does that, I don't know. What does that. Look like for people? And how can that bring about transformation in them? Pruning comes to mind, Kara, that there, there are any promises to p prune the branches that aren't bearing fruit.

Mm-hmm. So, um, that entering into the piercing, uh, sounds a lot like pruning. I'm not a gardener. Like what happens when you prune, you're cutting off the branches that need to go care and, and then like the others receive the more, more life that way. Yeah, more life. And they. I know we have like a dying Rose Bush on the side of our house that we very, very rarely prune.

But when we prune it, then the, the, the other stuff can come through. Full bloom. Full bloom. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I don't [00:28:00] think we read this verse. Um, in Romans 11, it's verse 25. I think we stopped before this one. But it says, lest you be wise in your own conceits, I want you to understand this mystery. A hardening has come upon part of Israel.

Hardening has come upon the part of Israel. This is a theme throughout the Old Testament, is just looking at the heart and the issue of the heart. Like God calls it out often with his people, seeing their, the questions that they have, the doubts that they have, you know, wanting after they've been freed, they wanna go back to Egypt because they don't trust, you know, God's gonna provide for us in, in.

Desert and there's just this hardening that happens. And we see this in Jeremiah 31. We see this in Ezekiel 36 where God calls it out. And in Ezekiel 36 specifically, he says, I will cut out your heart of stone and I will give you a heart of flesh one. I love that. But it in the verse right [00:29:00] before in verse 25, Ezekiel 36, 25, it says, I will sprinkle clean water on you.

And then in verse 26, I will cut out your heart of stone. And I'll give you a heart of flesh. So there's already, there is this spiritual cutting that is happening to graft us towards God, and he tells us exactly how in verse 26 25, I'll sprinkle water on you. So at what point are we grafted into the family of God?

Our baptism? Mm-hmm. That is not something that we can ever lose. That is not something you can lose. When you are baptized, you are baptized into the family of God and indelible mark has been placed on your soul. You cannot not be a part of God's family at that point. And you belong to him. You belong to him.

And there's been the spiritual cutting that has happened to our heart. He has given us a heart of of flesh. However, just like. In a, in a medical grafting or implanting, like you have to watch to see if that graft takes or to see if it's [00:30:00] rejected. And I think that's true even for us. Mm-hmm. Like here, you know, the Jewish people were God's people.

They were God's chosen people that can't be taken away. And even in this, there's like that faithfulness that. Providence, that like God wants them, he has this plan for their salvation. He's staying true to the covenant and their salvation as his chosen people. However, they have chosen to reject him. And I think that's true for us.

Like we have been baptized into the family of God, cut away our, our stony heart and we have been chosen, but the spiritual fruit and the spiritual grafting. Can be rejected, don't you think? Yeah. I think Romans, your passage from Romans is how we got here being grafted in baptism, how we got here. But John is how we live there.

Yeah. How do we stay? How does that grafting keep We have, you know, we have to abide, right? As you said, we have to stay rooted. We can't become self-reliant. [00:31:00] We have to recognize that the life isn't coming from the branch itself. Mm-hmm. The life is coming from the tree we're grafted into. Yeah. I would say even here where it's Paul is like diagnosing almost where the, where their rejection has come from.

In verse 25, in Romans 11 says, I want you to understand a hardening has come upon part of Israel. So he is like diagnosing where their rejection has come from. So if, if that's the same for us, which I think it is. Mm-hmm. We've been brought into the family of God and yet we can choose to spiritually reject the fruits by how, by what?

Hardening. Mm-hmm. And so even though God has taken out this stony heart and he is given us a heart of flesh, written his law upon it, upon it, which is a law of love, we can slowly begin to build up the stone and build up the walls and harden our hearts again. And I, I would say that can come in many different ways.[00:32:00] 

When we are pierced, which has to happen to be grafted, when we are pierced, when we are cut, when we are broken, there are two directions we can go. Anger and hardness, or humility in our brokenness and graft allow ourselves to be grafted further to the root. I don't know, that's the spiritual side. I don't have, I don't have like a, like a call to action in that, you know?

I think there's just truth in it. I think sometimes. Because it can seem like, well, what are we doing to cut ourselves off? Well, we're, we're living in a state of mortal sin. Sure. Or, you know, we, we've backslidden or we've fallen away. But sometimes we miss, there's even more subtle ways that we reject the grafting, if you will.

Almost like, uh, it's Brother Francis. There's this episode of Brother Francis where my kids used to love watching this particular scene. There's, there's a grape vine and there's a grape that has, I know, that has a, a, [00:33:00] a saw and he's cutting himself off from the vine. And as you see him cutting himself off, he's starting to look more and more like a raisin and shriveling up and shriveling up.

And many of us that's, it's more gradual and more subtle. And so one thing I've been working on more recently is. For example, negative self-talk. Mm-hmm. I'm, no one has said worse things to me in my life than I say to myself. Mm-hmm. But in doing that, in a way, I'm cutting myself off from the vine because every bit of negative self-talk that I allow is rejecting what God says about me.

Mm-hmm. Is rejecting God's plan that he has for me is rejecting, um, the fruit in a way. That I am bearing, if I would just open my heart. It's, it's, it's stealing joy. It's stealing joy, it's rejecting freedom. And so I, I, we have to be careful that we don't miss, 'cause the more subtle waste that we cut ourselves off from the vine.

Yeah. [00:34:00] Especially interiorly and I think sometimes it is, it is, you don't have to be in a state of mortal soul. You don't have to outwardly be rejecting God, like I don't believe in him, or I'm angry at him. Sometimes it's, I go to church, I pray the rosary. I, you know, we do all of these things. The holy things.

That's the, maybe the external fruit. Somebody cuts us off in traffic and we flip 'em the bird. Right. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. And it's just, it's just where is that coming from in our heart? Is it a hardened place? Is it a desire for control? Is it, is there mistrust? Right. Um, and just really looking interiorly and being okay with the prick that he wants to send us because, oh man, you don't, nobody loves getting poked.

Nobody loves getting pricked. Nobody loves getting poked. Um, but when we can receive it with humility, which is hard, let's recognize, that's hard. When we can receive being challenged or being rejected or being, um, told what's wrong by God. And he does it in a gentle [00:35:00] way, but sometimes he also uses other people to do it.

Can we receive that with humility and, and see the ways that like, maybe I've hardened myself to the grace of God's transformation mm-hmm. And his love. Right. I'm almost envisioning those pricks are, are meant for our healing, are meant to give us a gauge of. How well we're doing. I'm thinking of pricks, like tying it to medical things, since you've mentioned that briefly.

Yeah. But oftentimes shots were pricked. What do those shots do? Keep us healthy. Mm-hmm. Um, or pulling blood like Yeah. Yeah. To, to make sure we're healthy. Mm-hmm. Um, it's the same thing. The things that agitate us, the things that irritate us, like, like your traffic incident earlier. Mm-hmm. Those are just tiny pricks that are meant to, they're an indicator.

Am I bearing fruit? Yeah. Am I truly free? As you were talking about the, the interruption to your plans and having to wait for five minutes. Mm-hmm. I've been trying to see those moments as Lord. I pray for your protection every day [00:36:00] in this inconvenience. I bet you're trying to keep me safe, like sitting here at, at this light when someone cut me off.

Yeah. Um. Maybe that's how you keep me safe. Maybe that maybe I'm gonna be seconds away from what could have been. Yeah. I've been trying to see it that way, and I think that is, not to toot my own horn, but I think that is bearing fruit. Yeah. That's abiding. It's allowing yourself to also let go of control and see God's plan right in it all.

Yeah. I don't have the passage in front of me, but there's a passage also in interior, in the book, interior Freedom that talks about. So much of, um, our peace that is stolen or the problems that we have are our fault, our own fault. Mm-hmm. And it's, I think it's talking about like being anxious about, you know, the future or focusing so much on the past.

And we allow ourselves to like, think up all of the things that could go wrong or that frustrate us, but they're stealing our freedom rather [00:37:00] than living in the moment of God's present. Grace. I guess going back to the grafting, sometimes those moments are the ways that he's like challenging us. And I, I don't know, I see this in, in what Paul is saying too, just do not be boastful.

Do not be prideful. That you have been brought in, that you have been grafted to God. That's so easy to do. Um, there was a passage, I guess this is becoming also about interior freedom. There was a passage in there too that talks about how, um, the multiple saints, St. John of the cross st theres of Lasus St.

Paul, every single day was about. I start again. I start today. Mm-hmm. Today's a new day and I think it's really easy as Christians to look at yesterday or look at the consolation from a year ago, or look at the moment I said yes five years ago and to think so far back in the past. Like that has defined me as, as a Christian, that has defined me in my interior life with the Lord.

But what the Saints did was they did not come before God with their hands full of all of their past good deeds and their past yeses. Right. Every single day they [00:38:00] chose Yes. Mm-hmm. Lord's mercies are new every morning. Yes, yes. And he has present graces for us. But that's what grafting is. It's like we can become boastful, but in our boasting, we're forgetting who we're grafted to.

We're forgetting the source. Then we're like that with Shriveling grape. We're just, mm-hmm. We're just slowly like shifting the focus. If we focus so much on, here are all the good things that I've done, but what's that good thing that God has done? He has invited us into the family and every single day he invites us a new, to have more fruits in our interior life.

You mentioned a call to action earlier, so what does it look like to stay grafted? We've touched on it a bit, but what does it, what does it look like? Yeah, we're grafted by baptism you said, but, um, we've talked about abiding and I think in a general sense, but, but what does it look like to remain grafted?

I would say to start, it's waking up every single day and saying, God, I choose you. I know that sounds really simple, [00:39:00] but like, I know people in my life who they're like, I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm here. And that's like their relationship with God. They're like, I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm here.

I'm like, that is the best first step. 10th step and 50th step. Mm-hmm. Because being grafted to God, just grafting in general, being grafted to a plant, being graft, you know, skin graft, whatever, there's, it's a slow process. Mm-hmm. So we have to also have a little bit of grace on ourselves to recognize you're not gonna wake up tomorrow and everything's gonna be better and different.

Right. It's a slow spiritual journey. One of the fruits of the spirit is kindness. And sometimes that means being kind to yourself. Yeah. It's also patience. Right. And sometimes that means being patient with God, right? 'cause he has new mercies and graces for you. But it's gonna take time to see all of those fruits bear and grow.

Mm-hmm. But God is the nutrients. So I would say how, yeah, how do we stay grafted? I would say one, be be gracious to yourself. Um, because it's going to take time. [00:40:00] Also wake up and choose God every single day because you might have messed up yesterday. You might have had pride yesterday. You might have rejected him yesterday, but just like the Israelites rejected him, just like the Jews are rejecting him, he calls them back every single day and we get to say yes.

Mm-hmm. I think staying rooted in scripture is also important, letting the word shape and nourish you. Um, being grafted in, we're nourished by scripture. Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ. Um, who are we grafted into? Yeah, Christ. And so, um, scripture says be con, be conformed by the renewing of your mind.

How do we renew our mind? By being rooted in scripture. Yeah, that's good. It's not simply the grace that is that nutrients in giving life, but his life-giving word. Right? Yeah, his living word. How else do you know his mercies are new every morning if you haven't read that passage. Yeah. If you haven't been in the word.

Yeah. And obviously, um, of course, like as Catholics, we. Have an outpouring, constant outpouring of God's [00:41:00] grace in the church. Right. So, and we don't say that as like, it's, it's a work that we do to earn something. It is his gift that he has given us. So why would we not go and get it? It, it's easy to get down on how things are in the church and in the world, but what we miss is we live in a golden age of Catholic resources.

Of Christian resources. Mm-hmm. Never in the history of the world has it been more. Uh, easy, easy. Mm-hmm. To read the Bible, read scripture to, um, I mean, you're hearing podcasts. We talked about that at the beginning. Yeah. Like, we live in a golden age. We really do. Um, and, and so there's so much out there that can help us stay rooted.

And reinforce that grafting. Mm-hmm. But there, the important thing to also know is like when we are doing the external things, that God sends constellations for the purpose of growing our interior life and relying on him. Um, that was one of the passages in interior freedom as well. It talked about how the constellations that the Lord sends us, even the hardships that the Lord sends us, um, [00:42:00] or the outpourings of the Holy Spirit that he sends us are always for the purpose of growing faith, hope, and charity.

Mm-hmm. Faith, hope and love. Love above all. Um, and that's, I mean, God is love. That's being grafted to God is when we, when we are growing in love. Amen. That's what's gonna change the world. Yeah. We say draw near to Christ, draw near to one another. I think, um, being grafted in also means remembering that branches don't grow in isolation.

Yeah. We need community around us. It's, it's, God has never asked it to be me, God, in the Bible and nothing else, no one else. It's, we're meant to be in community. We're meant to. Encourage one another as St. Paul says in Ephesians, encourage one another. First Thessalonians. And in other places, Philippians Paul reminds us to encourage one another to build one another up.

How odd would that be to just see like a stump with one like single branch right. Coming out. Yeah. Community. I will say, so I have, I have two, um, kind of call to action of reflection [00:43:00] questions, I suppose for you guys to. Think about. One is of the things we talked about, how do we stay grafted to the Lord?

What's something that today or tomorrow I can choose this, I can do this. Um, and when I say I, I don't mean like we're pulling ourselves up, but like we're bringing ourselves closer to God so God can do it within us. So what's that one thing? And then two, are there areas of your heart that have hardened.

Or have been pierced or have been cut, and which of those two paths have we taken? Have we hardened it with anger or have we allowed ourselves to be, um, open to being grafted to the Lord in that? And obviously his invitation is to turn to him in that hardness. Um, so if you have areas of your heart, how can you turn to him?