Through the Looking Glass with Olivia Taylor Dudley

[Starts with a clip of Zelda and Alice in the library. Alice offers her experiences of being a niffin to the library. Zelda has a counteroffer.]

CLARA: Hi everyone, and welcome back to Physical Kids Weekly! I'm Clara.

DANI: And I'm Dani.

CLARA: And today we're joined once more by the lovely Olivia Taylor Dudley, who plays Alice on the show. Thanks for joining us, Olivia!

OLIVIA: Thanks for having me back.

CLARA: Oliva, the last time we talked to you, Alice had just turned into a niffin, and we talked as if you weren't going to be part of the show for a while. That didn't really happen.

OLIVIA: No. Thank goodness!

CLARA: Yeah, thank goodness. So I do think it's fair to say Alice has...changed. Tell us about that journey.

OLIVIA: Yeah. I mean when I signed on, I had obviously read the books so I knew Alice was going to get killed off at some point and it was a discussion from the beginning with the producers whether or not I would disappear for a season or how would they keep me on. And luckily they kept me on because it would have sucked to be gone for an entire season. I think that John and Sera and the writers did an amazing job of incorporating niffins into the whole season and it gave me to explore a different side of her.

We get to see Niffin!Alice in the books for a few chapters at the end of the books and I absolutely love that whole section of the books and I think she's just this force to be reckoned with. That was really fun to explore for a whole season and not just a few scenes.

So it has been fun to develop so many different sides to one character. I mean, I think I've played like 20 different versions of Alice. Whether they're just slightly different shades of her, but I feel really lucky that I get to. I've never lived with a character as long as I have with Alice and I feel like I know her really well.

It's so funny when people say "I miss the old Alice," but in my mind, I don't really know what the means because as people we grow and grow and we don't really necessarily see our own growth. I think that's the same when you're with a character that long. I don't see any other option other than where she currently is. So you just keep building and building and they let you do that on this show. You're not always stuck on the same character, they let you build upon the experiences you're going through. Does that make sense?

CLARA: Yeah! I agree with you. I think a really great thing that we get to see in this show is real character growth from all the characters. Even– we were talking to Hannah last week, who plays Victoria– who has had this relatively small role so far but even with her fairly little amount of screen time, that character has been developed a lot.

OLIVIA: Yeah.

CLARA: So one of our listeners, Logan, wanted to know how much of Alice's evolution you think is about her having been a niffin and becoming human again, and how much you think is just that Alice no longer has any fucks to give?

OLIVIA: Oh, I think its a combination of a lot of things. I think that this whole season for me is kinda Alice trying to figure out who she is. I mean, that's the story for all of these characters, all the time on this show, but I think for her, she's had– I mean she's died and came back and was a completely different person for a long time. She's been through so much so I think she just has no grasp of who she is.

And I don't think she has any intention of not being the old Alice, I just think these experiences have changed her and I think a part of her loved being a niffin and misses it. Slowly, as we've seen over the season, things have come back to her, what happened as a niffin and I think there's a part of her that's questioning whether or not she liked it more than she would like to admit. Because she did so many nasty things as a niffin, but she also kind of found her true power as a niffin so I don't know. I don't remember the original question you just asked me.

CLARA: That's okay! That was a good answer.

OLIVIA: Okay!

DANI: I feel like it would be really hard on anyone to become a complete being of magic, like pure magic, then have magic completely ripped away.

OLIVIA: And for someone like Alice, Alice was the one who never really wanted magic. I think it's fascinating that Lev wrote that character to be the one that gets pure magic. I don't know. They just all have such different relationships with magic and hers is really complicated and seems to be forced upon her at all times. I feel like she finally let it take her over when she was a niffin and now she really doesn't know how she feels about it, but I don't know. I'm still trying to figure it out. I found myself lost this entire season and my showrunners, John and Sera kept assuring me that that was the point. That Alice was lost. And I was like, "Okay, I trust you!" But in the end, it was totally true.

I'm an over-preparer and I work really hard and this season they didn't really give me a lot of information ahead of time. I take a lot from Alice's book of being hyper intelligent and trying to over-prepare and know what's going and have a plan and that's how I approach her as a character. This year I had nothing. I had no idea what we were doing or where she was going. It created a different vibe for her for the whole season.

CLARA: Do you find that more unnerving or freeing?

OLIVIA: Can you hear my dog barking in the background?

CLARA: I can, but it's fine. Don't worry about it.

OLIVIA: I'm sorry. Seti hates when I don't let him in the room.

CLARA: I mean, we wouldn't mind him in the room if he doesn't bark when he's next to you.

OLIVIA: Oh, it would be insane. He hates the phone. Wild beast. What was I saying?

CLARA: I asked has it been more unnerving or freeing for you?

OLIVIA: Oh yeah. Well normally, that's how I like to work. I don't need a whole lot of information. But for Alice, its just the way I've worked to understand who she is. I try to do the work the way I feel she would do the work. And so it was a bit confusing this year to just be all over the place in my mind– which is normally how I work and the characters I normally play. Yeah, it definitely served me this year in a way I wasn't expecting. I can't give away what happens at the end of the season but it worked well.

CLARA: We'll speculate about that later.

DANI: So you said last time that before she became a niffin, Alice was unlike most of the characters you've played -- that you had to go against your instincts and hold back. Do you still feel like you have to hold back with her?

OLIVIA: Yeah, I think she's a complicated woman and she keeps things down, as we've seen over the three seasons. Slowly, things have bubbled up and she's not afraid to speak her mind and let things take her over where we didn't see that in the beginning and I wanted that to be the evolution of this character. I like that about her, but when she was a niffin I got to be a lot more in my comfort zone and do whatever I wanted. I find comfort in Alice's keeping things under wraps and always kinda bubbling on the inside and not being somebody who wears everything on her sleeve.

CLARA: You sort of alluded to this in the beginning, you really had to be a chameleon. On The Magicians we've seen you play several different characters, or versions of your character, in the last few seasons. What has that been like for you?

OLIVIA: I love it. I thrive off it. I think its a gift as an actor to be able to do that. I don't know if all actors like working that way, but we're all very different. I'm lucky that they trust me with playing so many versions of a character and playing completely different characters which is fun. Like I got to play Cassandra, which we got to see a bit of two episodes ago… right? You guys are better at knowing numbers. I have no idea what episode we're even on.

Yeah, but it's really fun to play different characters! It's an exercise in what I love doing and find the nuances of Alice specifically is really fun and trying to keep a throughline of who the character is the whole time but also exploring all these other places is really exciting. I loved playing Cassandra. I wish I could play her more, like every episode would be super fun. I don't know; I had a lot of fun. I love playing dress up. I love costumes. I love character acting. I wanted to do a voice for her, but they didn't want me too. They wanted me to sound like Alice so. But I had all this crazy shit prepared and I had to be a little more subtle.

Yeah, it was so strange to get to play Cassandra cuz I had no idea that was coming until the script was sent over to me. I was like, "What is this? What does this mean? Am I no longer Alice? I don't understand." But they explained it all to me. I can't explain it all to you yet.

DANI: That's awesome. It really reminds me of getting into Orphan Black territory, playing all of these different characters, which is amazing and I love seeing you as different people. I would definitely welcome more characters if you're willing to do that.

OLIVIA: Thanks. I know that Orphan Black– that would be such a dream job. I love that. Juggling so many different characters in your mind is really fun.

CLARA: I'm actually still taken aback that she got no recognition for that role.

OLIVIA: It's crazy!

CLARA: She played sooo many people.

OLIVIA: I know! It feels like everyone was so excited in the beginning and then they completely forgot about the show. That makes me sad.

DANI: If we could have Tatiana on the show, I would die. Like if she would be on The Magicians.

OLIVIA: Oh she would be amazing.

DANI: I feel like she could play Kady's sister or something. She would be amazing.

OLIVIA: Yeah, she's got the hair to play Kady's relative.

CLARA: I feel like the show has been having a lot of really interesting guests, like Judith Hoag who plays Alice's mom, I think is an amazing actress.

OLIVIA: Yes, she's wonderful.

CLARA: Did you see Arjun tweeted that in this next episode, Michael Luwoye who plays Hamilton in the touring play is gonna be on the show? I'm so excited about that.

OLIVIA: He's amazing. I went to set the days they were filming those scenes to watch and I was blown away. We get such great caliber guest stars on our show. The fact that we have Oscar winning actors on our show and people who are really solid performers, just speaks volumes to what we're making and what people are actually watching and wanting to be apart of it, which is exciting. But he's phenomenal. I can't wait for that scene.

DANI: Yeah, I didn't know about that, but I'm excited now. Let's get back to Cassandra though. How do you see her?

OLIVIA: What'd you mean?

DANI: What is she to you? As a character.

OLIVIA: Well, I can't really explain. It's kind of a hard thing to talk about because if I talk about it to much then it gives it away, but I can say that I don't understand the character. I don't know fully. They don't tell me everything. They don't tell us everything on purpose so I don't have all the answers as far as what Cassandra is. I have my own speculations, but she's not Alice. I mean, to me, she's not Alice by any means. So that's about all I can say cuz I don't think she's Alice, but you know what? At any moment they could just change their minds and she could be her twin sister– her older twin sister.

DANI: There's a lot of people who think its like Alice in another timeline that just happens to have a different name because just like how Margo's named Margo and she's Janet in another timeline.

OLIVIA: Oh she could be. Look honestly, I don't know. I don't know the answers because they won't tell me so I'm game for whatever fan theories there are and I'm sure somebody is right.

CLARA: Honestly, I'm just so thrilled to have that character. I mean it's really cool that your playing it. Just having Cassandra from Greek mythology be part of the show. She's my favorite story from Greek mythology.

OLIVIA: Oh that's so awesome!

CLARA: And she's so relevant today. I mean, like.

OLIVIA: Yeah. I think it was a really powerful choice and I was really excited when talking to Sera about her. I don't know. I wish we could have done more with her in that episode, but I think its an interesting storyline that I'm pretty sure they're gonna keep telling in the future.

CLARA: Even in just that episode though, I think there was a lot that y'all did with her. One of the things we talked about in the episode breakdown was how you get a little bit of the Cassandra gaslighting thing going on in a subtle way with just the fact that Penny doesn't believe that what she's giving him is relevant to what he's doing. I thought that was so great. I hope we get to see a lot more of her. It's gonna be really cool.

OLIVIA: Yeah, those scenes were really fun to shoot. I mean, I always have a blast working with Arjun. I think our chemistry as actors works really well together so that was a fun one because I got to do something completely different with him. I actually really enjoy when I'm frustrating an actor in a scene and I got to do that a lot as a niffin with Jason. I got to frustrate Arjun in that scene and that's always fun cuz you never know what they're gonna do. It was actually really hard to shoot technically the Cassandra stuff because I had all this hair that I was literally strapped to and to move was really difficult. I had these fake nails that kept flying off and all this stuff was very complicated and that dress I was wearing was like fifty pounds. All that stuff just makes it really fun to play. Actually, I think at one point we were gonna do prosthetics on the face to make her look really old, but I have really sensitive skin and we weren't able to do it with the makeup tests.

CLARA: I really like it the way it was though. It really gives her that other worldly sort of look.

There's been some speculation among fans, based on the title of an upcoming episode, that we'll see another version of Alice again soon -- Alice from the twenty-third timeline, who we saw last season in the Teslaflection. I won't ask you to comment on that speculation of course, but I would love to hear you talk about alternate timeline Alice. She's so different from the Alice we've seen develop over the last two seasons.

OLIVIA: Alice-23 is my second favorite Alice other than Niffin!Alice just because she's really tragic. Henry, one of our producers and writers, who writes the 23 timeline, him and I share a love for that timeline for some reason. Alice in normal life, in the timeline we're used to seeing, she's not an emotional person and I think that Alice-23 is pure emotion and pure raw emotion and isn't thinking as much with her head as much as her heart–which is not what Alice normally leads with. But it is still her. It's just that situations have done differently in the past. I think that's a really fun thing to explore. I find that that Alice makes me cry. Like after I shoot that Alice, which has only been a couple of times, I go home very sad and I'm emotional. That's fun. Alice never gets to be that way. And I'm an emotional person so its kinda a torture to play her sometimes so its fun when they let me cry.

CLARA: I think you said that before, that you feel like you're a very emotional person. Do you mind if I just ask you to expand on that a little?

OLIVIA: Oooh. I don't know. I mean, everyone's emotional. I think human beings are all very emotional, it's just how much comes to the surface. I'm somebody who probably cries every day or every other day. I know people who don't. I just know that I've always classified myself as an emotional person and I know people who don't. So I don't know what the other side of things are like, I just know what its like to be me and that's probably the reason I do love acting cuz its a release for that of some kind even if its not crying, any kind of emoting is therapeutic. I don't know. What are you guys? Are you guys emotional or are you–?

DANI: I'm an incredibly emotional person. I'm like the person who's watching a comedy and something slightly sad happens and I'm in tears.

OLIVIA: I cried three times this morning just watching the third season of Love on Netflix. I love that show and there's nothing emotional happening. It's literally like these little beats that the actors are just nailing it, the mood of the scene, and I just start crying. I think cuz I'm happy for them that they nailed the scene. I don't know. I cry at everything.

CLARA: I didn't used to see myself as an emotional person at all and that's something that's been changing in the last few years which I think is a good thing. I think that comes from therapy and becoming more in touch with feelings I always had. But I've been watching Bojack Horseman for the first time.

OLIVIA: I haven't seen it.

DANI: I love that show.

CLARA: You will love it. If you're an emotional person and you are interested in that sort of complexity, I think you'll really like it.

OLIVIA: Yeah, I've been wanting to start it

DANI: It's deep.

OLIVIA: Really? I never would have thought that.

DANI: It's very deep.

CLARA: Yeah, it gets me emotional pretty regularly. I just stopped half way through an episode before this where– spoilers for people who watch Bojack Horseman– where he meets his daughter for the first time. And its– he just comes back from his journey where he's been off dealing with his own emotional journey and feeling like he did his life all wrong and he's coming back from that and immediately finding out he has a daughter. It's intense.

OLIVIA: Oh man. I love that.

DANI:Is this the newest season?

CLARA: No. I'm in season three. I think there's four seasons out right now.

OLIVIA: Whenever I'm shooting The Magicians, I need to have a show to watch at night when I get home that's not super serious so I always watch Friends or Seinfeld. Rick and Morty was a good one last year. I like animated ones too, so maybe I'll add in when we go back to the fourth season.

CLARA: Yeah. It is pretty emotional though. It gets a little heavy sometimes. So just, fair warning.

OLIVIA: I fall asleep ten minutes in at the end of the night anyway so I don't actually see any of it.

DANI: Speaking of Rick and Morty, have you tried the Szechuan sauce from McDonald's?

OLIVIA: No?

DANI: Yeah, they brought it back.

OLIVIA: Really? How funny.

DANI: Yeah, because they had that whole, they only had it for a limited time and it ran out in an hour or whatever. So they apologized for it and a bunch of the McDonald's have a bunch of it now.

OLIVIA: I just haven't been to a McDonald's in a really long time.

DANI: I was pretty disappointed in it. I was like, super stoked and this is not what I remembered it to be. It;s like teriyaki sauce with a little too much vinegar

CLARA: Should we get back too–?

DANI: Yeah we definitely should.

So Sera tweeted that there would be more "crazy Alice shenanigans" coming up this season.

OLIVIA: She did?

DANI: She did. Is there anything you'd like to say to fans about that?

OLIVIA: Hmmm… I love where Alice goes this season. Yeah, I think Alice is going to continue to get a little bit crazy and that's part the writing and part the way I end up playing her and I really love the direction they're taking her because my character is one of the few that almost the entire storyline from the books has been on the show. We went through it very fast so I'm kinda in my own territory now. I think Alice this season is really questioning magic and if people should have it and what it actually means and how dangerous it is and if she wants it or not. I think that that is a dangerous game to play in a world full of magic. I don't want to give anything away

DANI: Yeah, I don't know if you can tell us, but we're wondering if Alice made a deal with the Library.

OLIVIA: Ohh, I can't talk about the Library stuff.

DANI: Yeaah, I figured.

OLIVIA: But I do love working and doing scenes in the Library. I got to do some and that's a fun place to be. That set is beautiful and is really haunting when you're in there. I love it.

DANI: I love the librarians. They're amazing.

OLIVIA: So amazing.

CLARA: I have really loved the Library set too and I keep thinking about it because in a lot of ways its just a library. It's like so many libraries that you see and compared with a lot of scenes in Fillory, it feels like it shouldn't be as interesting as it is. But it really is! It's so–

OLIVIA: It is! Our production designers are amazing and all the creatives behind the design of the show are so incredible and the way its shot in the Library is my favorite version. There's so many hidden, secret things in the Library that people can't see on camera. Like all of our names are on the books and hidden messages are all around the place. I think this season I really need to take photos of everything so I can post it later for everyone to see. But there's SO many hidden, hilarious things on the Library set that I love. Cuz there's so many books to fill. We have so many books on our show. I don't know any other show that has any many books as we probably do. We just have library after library after library shelves against the walls that you can't even see. There's like a million Twilight books.

CLARA: Do you just pick them off the shelves during breaks or in hair and makeup–?

OLIVIA: Yeah, we do! We read them. Like I have so many books in my trailer that I steal from set all the time cuz I was in the middle of reading it.

CLARA: What's one that you remember?

OLIVIA:I don't know. The last one I was reading was a metaphysics book, but like a classroom one. Like a high school classroom book and I was trying to go through and give myself lessons. Must have been towards the end of the season. Must have been losing my mind.

CLARA: So one thing I would like to know is where would you like to see Alice's journey take her?

OLIVIA: I mean I don't know where I want it to go, but I know— I don't miss, but I love the relationship between Alice and Quentin. I'm curious to see where that goes in the future. Like I know where it goes in this season, but I want to know where it goes in the future. That was the storyline I loved the most in the books. That's what drew me in. That's what made me want to do the show and I wouldn't mind seeing that. This season isn't so much about relationships. Like there isn't much love interests happening. I mean there's the Penny and Kady one, but that's an incredibly broken and flawed relationship and I think the Alice and Quentin one is a very healthy one. Eventually. I would hope. I want it to be. I don't know.

I also wanna work with Arjun more. I think Alice and Penny are fascinating together. As the actor I like thinking about scenes and who I want to work with. Where the story goes, I have absolutely no idea. This show could go for twenty seasons and probably still be just as insane. I want her to find some peace, but maybe not anytime soon because that would be boring.

DANI and CLARA: Yeah.

DANI: I also love Alice and Quentin. But I also love Quentin and Eliot.

OLIVIA: People love those two together. It's so fun. Yeah, they're amazing. I loved episode 5 with the mosaic. It was so beautiful. I feel like there was so much scenes and so many more that they shot because it was a really really fat episode and not everything fits into the time. And I feel like there's so much they did that we didn't even get to see, but it's in my heart. I remember it.

CLARA: I saw someone was tweeting about how the flying Muntjac was supposed to be the sixth story in The "Six Stories About Magic" and then it couldn't fit so they put it in 9.

OLIVIA: Ohhhhh. Yeah, I totally forgot about that. You're right. That's very much true. That was something I was told like a year ago and I hadn't thought about it thence. The "Six Stories About Magic" is one of my favorite episodes.

CLARA: It's incredible.

OLIVIA: It's such a strong piece of television and I'm so proud of it.

CLARA: And you just don't see anything like that on TV. There's nothing comparable.

OLIVIA: I kept seeing people tweeting beforehand when they saw the title of the episode like "These kinds of episodes don't work. Six stories like six little viniettes." People kept dogging it at first and then they watch it and they're like "Oh my god never mind. It totally works." I think it was a very complex episode that they nailed.

DANI: It is true a lot of the times those episodes don't work. Especially because a lot of the times that when people do episodes like that, they're trying to use it as a recap tool.

OLIVIA: Totally.

DANI: Like "This has what's been going on."

OLIVIA: Yeah. This just drove the story forward in such an amazing way.

CLARA: It really did.

OLIVIA: Oh I loved working with Brittany, who plays Fen. We got to finally have a scene together, the scene in the living room. That was fun. I love her. She's one of my besties. We never get to work together.

CLARA: She's fantastic. We really adore her.

OLIVIA: Yeah, she's a doll.

DANI: Here's one we've been asking a lot this season to our other guests. What have you learned from Alice, and what do you wish you could teach her?

OLIVIA: I feel like I get asked this sometimes and I feel like I never have an answer. I don't know. I really look up to Alice. I find her very intelligent so I've learned from her some discipline. And speaking your mind. I do think she's becoming somebody who speaks her mind more and I really like that about her cuz I'm a quite shy person so I do enjoy that part of her. What was the second half of the question?

DANI: What do you wish that you could teach her?

OLIVIA: Oh man! I wish I could teach her to chill the fuck out! She doesn't relax.

CLARA: She really doesn't.

OLIVIA: Yeah, I wish I could teach her to chill out for a day. Go on a walk. Watch TV. Put on some sweatpants. I don't know. Other than that, she's kicking ass so I don't really have much to teach her. Although I got to wear pants this season.

CLARA: That was our next question! Last season, you told us you couldn't imagine Alice in pants, but that's exactly what she's been wearing in the last two episodes. How do you think those changes in her wardrobe have reflected her personality?

OLIVIA: Well it's always a conversation and it's always a collaborative thing with the wardrobe department—oh my boyfriend's letting my dog out and it sounds like a herd of horses. With Magali, our costume designer, and with Sera—Sera Gamble is highly involved in our costumes as well. I told her this season I really wanted to start wearing pants for practical reasons and I just felt like Alice had become a woman and she has become stronger, figuratively and literally, and she needs to start wearing the pants. She totally agreed and got on board and we did a bunch of different tests on which kinds of pants to wear.

We don't want her to dress like Julia. She can't look like Margo. We had to find our own vibe. So we found a mixture of keeping old Alice and new Alice just by adding pants and keeping the same shirts and that. It worked really well, I thought. It worked a lot better for me as an actor because I do a lot of physical stuff this season and in dresses it's just impossible and it's really cold in Vancouver in the winter. I was sick of freezing my butt off. But I think it gives her power. There's old Alice, the original Alice is in an arrested development and her wardrobe reflected that—where she was and she was still in a kind of childlike state and she's not anymore. It was really important to me, as the actor, to change her wardrobe up—but not too much! Plus they would never let me change it too much.

CLARA: One thing I noticed early in the season is that Alice is in a lot more darker shades in entire season, but she had a lot more blues in her outfitted in her makeup and I was wondering if that was related to how much of a Niffin she still feels like or how kindred she still feels.

OLIVIA: No, not directly. I just wanted to do subtle changes throughout the season so that she could become a different woman. I don't know. Nothing was directly niffin stuff—niffin related, I don't think. The blue not on purpose, no. I just think we try to get creative and try to change things up slightly when we're doing hair and makeup and wardrobe. Yeah. Sometimes I look back on original Alice sometimes in season one and she looks so different to me but it was all on purpose. Time slowly changing her.

CLARA: She's very different.

OLIVIA: She is very different, yeah. It's insane. At the same time, I still go to work. Get the same makeup put on, just a little bit more. And I get my hair straightened, just a little better. That's really the only change. And the pants now.

DANI: Don't have to freeze your butt off.

OLIVIA: Yeah.

DANI: So. Is there another character from the show you'd like to be paired with who you haven't yet, or a pairing you'd like to explore more?

OLIVIA: Well I really wanted to work with Stell. You know Alice and Julia really have a fascinating relationship that we've never really explored so we got to do that this season, as we already saw, and that was fun. That was fun because these are two very strong women leading very different lives but keep crossing paths and have different relationships with each other. Like the way Julia feels about Alice is completely different from the way Alice feels about Julia. I think Julia is very compassionate and open and healing and has this openness with her. And Alice has all these fucked up weird jealousies because of Quentin that Julia doesn't even know about. I found that to be a fun one. All these weird little stories in my head, working with the Julia character.

But who haven't I worked with that I want to work with? I love working with Marlee— Marlee Matlin. She's wonderful. I mean she's been one of my heroes forever so working with her was always amazing. You know Mageina who plays the librarian is amazing and she did that episode with the "Six Stories." She learned all that sign language and she doesn't speak sign language, she learned it all.

CLARA: I read that. That's amazing!

OLIVIA: Which is phenomenal. Mageina is just one of the most fantastic actors. I'd love to work more with her and Marlee. I think that would be amazing. This season I got to work with the whole cast. Like as the season goes, we all intermingle.

CLARA: So moving away from The Magicians for just a moment, I want to talk to you about another show you're on, The Comedians. Tell us a little about that show and your character.

OLIVIA: Well The Comedians is no longer on the air and it's a show I'm super proud of. I got to work with Josh Gad and Billy Crystal and they wrote me this very simple character. I'm barely in it, but it was fun to play. I just play this barista character and I'm really sad that the show got off the air because it was genius and the writing was amazing. And I'm bummed that some people didn't quite understand it but it could have been another Arrested Development-type show with very odd characters. It was such a short run, I really don't have much to say about it other than I think it's hilarious and I really loved working with those guys. I think Josh is amazing. Wait, have you seen it?

CLARA: Yeah, my husband watched it religiously and I watched a few episodes. So funny story. After the last interview we did, when we found out your character came back pretty much the next episode, my husband started referring to you as O-lie-via.

OLIVIA: That's funny.

CLARA: I started watching a few episodes with him and one of the episodes I saw was with "Charity" where Josh tries to impress your character by roping Billy into a "charity event," and it was so fun to watch your character fuck with him and turn his awkward obsession against him.

OLIVIA: That's fun. Playing a hot girl that gets hit on by the lead character kind of sucks, but they let me turn it on it's head and put him in his place which is a good thing. Yeah, I don't know. I wish that show was still on. It was really fun.

CLARA: Yeah, well you really took it and ran with it. Billy Crystal is amazing. I can't believe any show with him got cancelled. It's just crazy.

OLIVIA: I know.

DANI: That was a Netflix show, right?

OLIVIA: No, it was an FX show.

DANI: Oh. I think it might be on Netflix.

OLIVIA: It might be on Netflix. It's so confusing now. It ends up getting everything now.

DANI: Netflix will buy the rights of whatever to distribute it and they'll say it's a Netflix Original when it's not.

OLIVIA: Yeah. Don't they own Riverdale now? And Riverdale is just on Netflix?

CLARA: Do they?

OLIVIA: Yeah, I think so.

CLARA: Thats crazy.

DANI: They own it, like the rights to basically show it everywhere except for the US, so.

OLIVIA: Crazy. You guys watch Riverdale?

DANI: I do.

OLIVIA: Oh I'm a naughty magician. I shouldn't be talking about Riverdale while promoting Magicians but I love that show.

DANI: I love really bad teen dramas. Like, I'm all for them. Like Hulu's The Runaways, the Marvel one, is amazing cuz it's literally the OC meets superheroes.

OLIVIA: I haven't watched it yet. It's on my list.

DANI: You have too. It's incredible. I love it.

OLIVIA: The only thing about Riverdale is that they totally stole my style for the lead characters. They came out a year after our first season and they were all wearing Alice outfits the whole time.

CLARA: Oh that's true.

OLIVIA: And I was like " *gasp*." I mean, it's a classic, the Peter Pan collar wasn't just Alice, but I got a little jealous.

DANI: You should go on the show.

OLIVIA: Yeah, that'd be fun. We're always filming near them. We're always at the same locations, so I should just pop over there. I won't. I'm terrified of that, but I'll just fantasize about it.

DANI: They're also bringing Sabrina. Like they're making a Sabrina show. Which will be awesome.

OLIVIA: Yeah! I think some of our crew members are working on that.

CLARA: Like another Sabrina? Sabrina the Witch?

DANI and OLIVIA: Yeah.

DANI: Cuz she's from Archie comics and it's kinda like a companion piece to the other show— to Riverdale.

CLARA: Yeah! I remember the 90s show that was not dark. It was like the opposite of dark. It'll be cool to be a different side of it.

DANI: They had this super fancy casting notice for the cat that plays Salem. It's pretty hilarious.

OLIVIA: I love that show.

DANI: Well back to the interview. What other projects have you been working on lately? Anything we should look out for?

OLIVIA: I'm mostly just working on my own stuff right now. I've been writing and I've been producing and starring in a film I've been working on for many years called Canary, which I'm about to start to pick up shoots for next month. Then I'm writing a show with a friend and get that out into the world. I don't know. I'm just trying to make my own material in the off season. It's really hard to be on a show for half the year because schedule-wise it's really hard to find other work that's not just small guest star roles or a day here or there so you kinda just have to make your own work to stay creatively satisfied in the off season. But I'm here! I'm open! If anyone wants to hire me, I'm available.

CLARA: Well I mean, anyone would be lucky to have you. You're talented.

OLIVIA: Aww, Thanks.

DANI: I can't pay you, but I would love to work with you.

OLIVIA: It's just a really strange time in the movie business right now. There aren't a lot of films being made. I don't know what the vibe is outside of Hollywood, but here it's a very different landscape. There's mostly television being made. That's where all the money's going. And when you're already under contract on a show, you can't really go do other shows. It's pilot season right now. They're casting all the network pilots and I can't be on them so there isn't much for me to go audition for right now. And by the time that's done, there's only a small window before I go back to The Magicians so it gets to be a bit difficult to find time and make movies so I think everyone's feeling that right now. There are either big superhero blockbuster movies or television.

CLARA: You'd be really good as a superhero.

OLIVIA: I would love too. I would love to be a superhero. I'm waiting for that phone call. We'll see.

CLARA: If they do more of the younger generation X-Men or back in time X-Men, you could totally play a young Jean Grey.

OLIVIA: Oh, that'd be cool.

DANI: I don't know if they'd do it again since they already have Sophie Turner playing Jean Grey.

CLARA: Yeaaaah.

OLIVIA: There's gotta be some superheroes that we haven't tapped into yet.

CLARA: Oh there's so many. There's so many.

DANI: I feel like—

OLIVIA: I get messaged on Twitter all the time about it. I don't even know who some of the characters are. I'm not that deep into either of the universes.

DANI: I'm sure you could work with someone who's in Captain Marvel's universe. Work with Brie Larson.

OLIVIA: Yeah. That'd be pretty chill.

CLARA: While we're on this general subject, what's your dream role? Are there any directors, writers, or other actors you're dying to work with?

OLIVIA: I mean the kind that I love and are attracted to are small and intimate movies. It would be fun to do those Marvel movies, but just because it would be fun. The things I actually really love and enjoy are small movies. My favorite movie this year was Call Me By Your Name and that kind of completely encompasses what I love about filmmaking and acting. Those are the kinds of projects I would love to be making. Less of them are being made right now just the way the market is going. I would love to do that. One of those with a director who has a vision whose delicate and takes a lot of time to tell a very simple, emotional story would be my thing. I don't have a specific. I wanna work with a million different people. I love Paul Thomas Anderson. I don't know. There's so many. I always freeze when people ask me for specific names. It's always changing too.

DANI: I would love to see you in a Drake Doremus— is that how you pronounce his name?— film.

OLIVIA: I would love to work with Drake. I met him a while back. His movies are very much what I love seeing and what I love working on. Yeah, I think he's amazing.

DANI: His film Like Crazy, haunts me.

OLIVIA: I know! That was an amazing film. I still tell people to watch that movie.

DANI: Same. I watch it every year and cry buckets for like a day.

OLIVIA: Yeah. I haven't seen it in awhile. One of my other favorite movies is Blue is the Warmest Color. That I think is a perfect movie as far as the kinds of things I'm interested in, the kinds of characters I love, a very specific exploration into someone's journey in their head.

DANI: Well I know they're making a Call Me By Your Name sequel because I'm not sure if you've read the book, but it takes place over the span of twenty years and they didn't really do the last half of the book.

OLIVIA: I haven't read the book but I don't know if I wanna read the book. I wanna wait, I think, cuz I watched the movie first.

DANI: Well spoiler, but maybe you can try and play Armie Hammer's wife that he will have.

OLIVIA: Is there a wife character in that?

DANI: There is. There is a wife.

OLIVIA: Okay, I'm calling my agent as soon as we're off this phone call.

CLARA: Alright so, moving back.

DANI: Yes, so you mentioned before that you have a longstanding interest in magic and the occult. How has that figured into your life as an adult? How has it impacted the way you understand roles like the one you play on The Magicians?

OLIVIA: I think that having a love and openness to things that are supernatural are only going to serve me on a show like this. I let my imagination get the best of me constantly and at work I get paid to do that so it's lovely. I love things that are unknown. I love uncertainty and I think that's what's alluring about fantasy and things of that nature and magic so I think it's a very romantic thing. I don't really have a logical brain so that's just not how I operate so playing Alice who's a very logical person, sometimes it can be difficult to be swept up into magic but Olivia on set is super stoked filming magic shit.

My grandmother, who recently passed away, was one of the people who raised me and raised me in a world of magic. And I don't know. I think it was one of the most valuable things I got growing up because I just—I don't know why. I can't explain it but I'm sure you guys understand, you're magic nerds. It's a nice escape. It's a healthy escape in my mind. Better than what a lot of people growing up, teenagers, were into. I was more into magic and they were more into bad stuff. I think it was a very valuable thing in my life. Does that explain it?

CLARA: Yeah.

DANI: I think so.

OLIVIA: I don't know. I feel like it's a bit of an existential answer. I don't know how to put it onto paper. Other than magic's awesome and at work I get to do it and I'm stoked. Some of my cast mates aren't into magic as much as I am. That's not what draws them to it so I don't understand it, but to each their own.

CLARA: Have you gotten anyone into it? Were you able to make that new connection?

OLIVIA: No. No, I mean Hale's super magic and we do tarot cards and we play with our crystals. I would like to get Summer more into magic, because she's not. She's hilarious and I think that would be super fun to see her get into magic because I think she'd be pretty resistant.

CLARA: So, What's your partnership like with the writers and directors on the show, and how has it evolved over the past three seasons?

OLIVIA: I mean we're all really good friends. In the off season I don't really see much of anyone much because we're all in either different coasts working on different projects, wrapped up in our own lives, but when we're working they're completely available. John and Sera are always there for us and if we have questions, they're willing to answer them and talk through characters. Like whenever there's a new character design, like Niffin!Alice, I had so many conversations with John and Sera about it. They're really open to us questioning things and if we think things should change they're open to listening and if they think it shouldn't change, they give us great reasons why.

It's a really wonderful collaboration and the writers room is full of all these really insane, nerdy, wonderful people who love the show to no end and pour their hearts out into it. I mean not every writers room is like that. You know they get staffed and maybe it's not necessarily their dream job, but on our show it seems to be everyone's dream job. I think it really shows in the material and what gets put on screen. Everyone really wants to be there and we've gotten lucky. It's been almost all the same people the whole time. The writers room just keeps leveling up each year. They're hilarious and funny. The writers are obviously in Los Angeles. At John and Sera's office, they do a boys night every Wednesday or I think it got moved to Thursday's cuz The Magicians are on the air and that got complicated. We play handball and party and hangout and just goof off. It's such a great environment. I feel really lucky to get to work with these people. They're such super nerds.

DANI: Yeah, so do you have a favorite episode or character arc from this season? What about season 2? It doesn't have to involve Alice.

OLIVIA: Well this season my two favorite episodes were the "Six Short Stories About Magic" and "All That Josh." The musical episode was such a challenge for all of us. Musicals always look so effortless on the screen but it's so much work, it's absurd. When you're filming it—when you're doing it on the stage, it's different cuz you just have it all memorized and you just do it and you perform it and it's done. But on a TV show you have to do one intricate move 500 times over and over and over. That was a really difficult episode to shoot and I thought everyone just completely nailed it. It's so much fun. It's such a bizarre piece of television so I'm really proud of that episode.

Season 2? I don't know. I can't remember titles of episodes or episode numbers. It's all very blurry for me, but season 2. I loved all of it. I got to be a niffin. I liked the end. I liked the last two episodes a lot. The last two episodes of season 2 were really fun. I loved when he brought Alice back and we got to do those scenes. They felt very much like the beginning of the relationship all over again.

CLARA: Those episodes were wild. I really like the actor who plays Umber and we only got to see him for a handful of episodes.

OLIVIA: Yeah, he was great. The casting on this show blows my mind sometimes because I'll read the scripts and I'll have something in my head for what I think this character's gonna look like and then we get to set and it's like "That's who they cast? That's so much better than what I could have imagined!" They really think outside of the box for the casting on the show and I think that's great. Like Ember and Umber, when I read the books, they're not at all what I imagined on the show and I love them so much more than what was in my head.

CLARA: Yeah. Yeah. I remember when we first saw Ember on the show [I was] shocked and completely unsure of where it was going and how it was gonna be. And the more that that evolved and the more the show evolved as a whole, the more that it's been absolutely the right move. It's just so cool. It's exactly what you were saying. That's what I felt about Felicia Day as Poppy too. I would have never imagined her in that role. As soon as we heard she was cast, it was just like "Oh, of course. Of course it's gonna be Felicia Day"

OLIVIA: She's a perfect Poppy. I'd been asking them for two whole seasons who's gonna play Poppy? When's Poppy coming on? Because I loved the Poppy character.

CLARA: She's amazing!

OLIVIA: Yeah and they were like, "We don't know if Poppy's ever gonna be on the show." They say stuff like that and sometimes I think they're lying just to mess with us to keep us on our toes. But then when they cast Felicia and Poppy was in the scripts, I was so excited. She's such a joy to work with. She's really hilarious and down to earth. I got to work with her quite a bit this season and the relationship between Poppy and Alice is funny to me. I think it's an interesting dynamic. What an interesting character she is to have on the show. Such a different energy than the rest of the characters which is the whole point.

CLARA: Yeah. I think that was one of the things that was so interesting to me. In the books she's different from everyone but also in the show, those characters have evolved and become different from how they were in the books. So the choice to make her not the same character that she was in the book, but to be different from everyone else in similar ways, it felt really interesting to me.

OLIVIA: Yeah, I don't know. Honestly, I just don't remember what some of the characters are like in the book. Like I remember Alice, but everyone else, it's blurred in my head now. Like I can't. Like when I try to remember, when I think back to Penny's character in the books, I'm like "Holy crap." They're so different. And I can't imagine going back and seeing a different version of Penny. That's the fun part about making a TV show.

DANI: I mean, I don't think any of us are all that bitter that they didn't follow Penny's journey in the book because we just get Arjun more so.

OLIVIA: Yeah, more Arjun.

CLARA: More Arjun is always good.

OLIVIA: More Arjun is always good and more Queliot is always good.

CLARA: More Alice. We'll take more Alice.

OLIVIA: Yeah, Yeah. I'm always down.

DANI: It seems like Julia will probably be around more than she was in the books.

CLARA: And Fen.

DANI: She's only there for like one book and then she's like "Bye."

OLIVIA: Yeah, I think. I mean the way they've been writing this show, anything is possible so I think that the Julia storyline has finally turned around for poor Stella and she's becoming a different version of herself which is good because Stella is a very bright and happy person so I think it was a lot on her to play Julia. I mean we all signed up to play these characters. We all knew who they were, but she gets to be something slightly different this year, which is good. Except for Quentin. Quentin never grows.

CLARA: Only in the third book. Only in the end.

OLIVIA: But that's a point.

DANI: It takes him a really long time.

CLARA: Okay so before we go, we have a couple listener questions. The first comes from Randall. He writes, "Olivia was homeschooled as a kid. How did she get involved in theater, and did she do any kind of acting training?"

OLIVIA: Oh, no. I started homeschooling in 7th grade. The first month of 7th grade I quit public school and started homeschooling. I didn't do any theater or acting in elementary or junior high or high school because I was very antisocial and shy. I got my first agent when I was 15–or manager in LA. It didn't go well. He was kinda a bad person. I then moved to LA when I was 17 and then I started acting. I always knew I wanted to be an actor since I was five, but my aniexties got the best of me and it took me a little bit longer to get into it.

But then when I was 17 and I moved to LA, I went fullforce. I reinvented myself and just became brave and got into acting classes and started a production company and started shooting web series and doing all these things that were out of my comfort zone. It paid off really well. I've actually never done theater. I would love to do theater. I think I would love it but I didn't grow up in a big theater community so it wasn't something that was readily available. I did a lot of theater by myself at home though. I always put on plays for my family.

I had this weekly newsletter I always wrote. God, I was a weird kid. I wrote this newsletter. I grew up on a ranch. We had all kinds of different family members living in different buildings and I would put out this newsletter and in it was the theater section and I would do plays for everybody. Like once a week with my stuffed animals and stuff. I wasn't like five either. I was like 13 doing this.

CLARA: I love that though. It's so creative. Like you can't do something like that and have it come from anywhere except deep down in your soul. It's not something you followed someone else doing.

OLIVIA: No, no. I just love that my imagination was always my best friend. And I figured this was the best career choice for that.

DANI: I had a lot of imaginary friends as well. I used to play Monopoly with them because I didn't have any friends.

OLIVIA: We should have been friends, Dani!

CLARA: There's still time.

OLIVIA: I don't know how to play Monopoly though.

DANI: Really?

OLIVIA: Yeah.

DANI: I have a Stranger Things Monopoly. It's pretty rad.

OLIVIA: Ooooh. That's cool.

DANI: Okay so another one of our listeners, Theo wants to know more about your dogs, Seti and Sophia. How did you find them, and what convinced you to adopt them?

OLIVIA: I actually have three dogs.

DANI: Oh! Three?

OLIVIA: Yeah! I don't post them all because Seti just loves the camera so he's always there. So I have three dogs. I have Seti and I got him and he's a Peruvian Inca Orchid, which is a really rare dog from Peru. He's the oldest breed of dog there is. He's like an ancient alien dog and I wanted one for like nine years, but I only rescue animals so they're very rare and only for sale in other countries. So I waited for nine years for one to pop up on the internet that needed a home. So I drove 12 hours before meeting him and picked him up from this woman who couldn't take care of him and my life has been complicated ever since he's a total nightmare and I love him.

Then I have Sophia who I rescued from the pound. She's about… 17. 16, 17, 18 years old and I've had her over 10 years, maybe 13 years now. She's wonderful and blind and four pounds of sexiness.

Then I have Lee Loo Dallas, which is another rescue dog of mine. I've posted some pictures of her, but she's a little black Kelpie I rescued at the pound two years ago. I rescued her the day I was driving up to Vancouver to shoot the 2nd season of The Magicians and I went by the pound as I do and I was like "Oh God. I need her." So I adopted her right then and there. She's wonderful. I need to do a photo shoot with all three of them so people know I have all three of them.

DANI: Yeah. Seti also reminds me of the dog from Coco.

OLIVIA: Yeah that's a Xoloitzcuintli. That's what that one is. It's basically the same breed but they're from Mexico instead of Peru and they're a little bit smaller and the Peruvian ones are a bit older. Like more ancient. But when Coco came out, everyone knew what Seti was. Or they thought they knew.

DANI: So do you have any cute dog stories you can share with us?

OLIVIA: Cute dog stories…

DANI: Or crazy. Any.

OLIVIA: My dogs are obsessed with squirrels and in our backyard we have these trees that are full of squirrels and the squirrels just stand in the trees all day, throwing fruit at the dogs. And the dogs just bark and try to climb the tree and that's literally all I do all day long—stop them from climbing the trees to get the squirrels. That's why Seti is not out right now. Because he would be in the yard trying to eat the squirrels. My whole life is run by my dogs. I drive to Vancouver instead of fly so they can all come in the car and they're all happy. Seti loves my trailer at work. It's like a little warm room and he loves dens so he loves coming to work with me. It's really cute.

CLARA: Gracie—this one [Clara shows her dog to Olivia]— we got only got about six or eight months ago.

OLIVIA: Oh she's so cute!

CLARA: She's perfect and she's like the same size as Sophia, just under four pounds. We weren't expecting to adopt a second— our other dog is also a terrier, but larger black ET looking terrier named Hercules— he doesn't come in here because he barks constantly. We weren't expecting to get a second dog and I volunteered for the SPCA to take photos of the adoptable dogs for their website. And she just sat on my husband's lap for two hours and he kept pestering me until we went back and got her and now I'm so glad because look! She's the best.

OLIVIA: That's what they do. So cute. I had my mom— growing up we lived near the pound and the humane society was five minutes from the ranch and we rescued dogs constantly. At one point, we had ten rescue dogs at once. And we had them their whole lives until they died. My mom still collects dogs. I think she's got six or seven right now on the ranch. And pigs. She adopted two little baby pigs that live in the house. So cute. I haven't met them yet, but I can't stop. I tried to convince my boyfriend that we should just open up a dog rescue instead of making television, but he told me no. He said "Maybe not yet." But that's my goal one day.

DANI: Yeah. I feel like I'm gonna be one of those old people with an animal sanctuary at some point.

CLARA: Okay so our last listener question comes from Rekter, who asks if you can share something cool with your fans, whether it's an interesting book or article you've read, a fun hobby, a charity you work with, or just something surprising or unusual about you as a person.

OLIVIA: Oh dear. I'm not gonna be able to answer this. I don't know. It's a big question.

CLARA: Yeah it is.

OLIVIA: I don't know.

CLARA: Well why don't we try have you read an interesting book or article because that was one of the ones on the list.

OLIVIA: I haven't actually read a book in a while. That's bad. Alice would be pissed. I read so many scripts that it gets a bit difficult to read books. I just end up falling asleep. Article… Well there's been so many wonderful articles out right now with all the things happening in the world and so many women are writing amazing things so I don't know. I feel like everyday I'm reading such amazing articles about women finally finding their power and Times Up and the Me Too movement. I can't specifically think of one at this point. It's like everyday I wake up and there's a new one. I have to think on that. I'm not good at those kinds of questions.

CLARA: It's pretty open ended.

OLIVIA: It is. I would love to work with some charities though. That's one I asked my publicist about. Who I could work with when I'm up in Vancouver and stuff. Arjun and I looked into working with a couple of charities so I think we're gonna do that this year. I'll get back to you on that.

I feel like this podcast this time is just a rambling conversation. It wasn't as specific as last time because we didn't have an episode to break down.

CLARA: That's the fun part though!

OLIVIA: I hope it's okay.

CLARA: Yeah. This is great.

DANI: We love our interviews. We had one with Adam who plays Todd last year.

OLIVIA: Oh he's hilarious.

DANI: It was a rambling mess as well. It was amazing.

OLIVIA: He's such a funny guy. I love that character. I'm glad they used him more this year because Adam's very talented and a very strange dude. I love him.

DANI: I would love him to be upped to series regular so bad. Todd is literally my favorite. Probably my favorite character.

CLARA: He's great.

OLIVIA: I said the same.

CLARA: The only thing I'm mad about is that he didn't get to sing in the musical episode.

DANI: I know! And he can sing.

CLARA: He can sing!

OLIVIA: I know. It's true but he was so funny in the episode though.

CLARA: He was. He's great. But we were talking about how—and it wouldn't have worked for this episode. But we need to have a musical episode with Todd where he sings "I Just Can't Wait to be King"

OLIVIA: *gasps* Oh that's genius. You should tweet that at John and Sera.

DANI: I feel like we have.

OLIVIA: Oh okay.

CLARA: It's okay. We've been talking to them about coming on the podcast. We just need to find the time that works for everyone and then we'll have them in the room and we'll put them on the spot and be like. Okay.

OLIVIA: There you go. Good. John will talk about musical episodes all day long. It's his favorite subject. He's always game to hear ideas. But that's a perfect song for Todd.

CLARA: Right?

DANI: It really is. So we have one more question just for fun. Are you caught up on Game of Thrones yet?

OLIVIA: No...

CLARA: We read this great article earlier this year about how being a couch potato has made your career or something like that.

OLIVIA: It's a good one.

CLARA: But they just had this running gag about how you weren't caught up.

OLIVIA: You know what's so funny? I've been trying to hide that from people for a while now, that I'm not caught up with Game of Thrones. Because I'm in the wrong genre to not know what's happening in Game of Thrones. I've just haven't had time and I find that show to be overwhelming and it takes a lot of my mind. When I'm working, I just can't watch that show. So no, I have not caught up and last year that was my goal and I failed. So hopefully this year I'll catch up. I should have never answered that guy's question because everyone's mad at me for that.

DANI: You need to catch up just so you can experience the final finale live. But I mean, you have a year, I think. A solid year.

OLIVIA: Okay good.

DANI: Because they postponed it. It's not gonna air at all in 2018.

OLIVIA: Oh really? Okay. I have time.

DANI: All the episodes are supposed to be two hours long.

CLARA: Oh God.

OLIVIA: That show is so intense.

DANI: It really is.

CLARA: I really like it but that sounds exhausting to me.

DANI: It's so intense that they had to film half a season and then take a giant break and then film the rest of it.

OLIVIA: Yeah because I heard the chuck that they shot were all nights and it was an entire battle sequence at night for months on end. Which is enough to ruin a person's mind. Shooting nights all the time is really difficult. That's probably why they took a break. Everyone was like no more!

DANI: Yeah.

OLIVIA: I'm looking outside and I see ten squirrels running around my tree. Oh God, Seti's gonna love it.

DANI: I love squirrels.

OLIVIA: Me too, but these ones are kind of brats. They really do throw fruit at my dogs.

DANI: What kind are they? Brown squirrels?

OLIVIA: What kind of squirrels? Yeah, they're brown squirrels. They have skinny tails though.

DANI: My favorite are the red ones that have the pointy ears.

OLIVIA: This interview has gone off the rails.

CLARA: Well I think we've come to the end for better or for worse. I don't think this has gone off the rails. I think it's been fun. If we're gonna get distracted by something while talking about dogs, it should be squirrels.

OLIVIA: Yeah, you're right! When you put it like that.

CLARA: Yeah, so I think that's all the questions we have. Olivia, thank you so much for joining us this season.

OLIVIA: Thanks for having me! I'll happily come back any time.

CLARA: Yeah well season 4. I'm so excited it was renewed.

OLIVIA: Yeah me too. I have no idea what they're gonna do. I don't think they even know.

CLARA: We've been saying this whole season that we have no idea what's coming. We have our theories but it's so out there. It's great.

So listeners, thank you joining us once again. If you like the show, please rate or review us on iTunes / Apple Podcasts. The more ratings we get, the higher we show up in search results, which makes it easier for other fans to find us and hear interviews like this one where we talk about squirrels with Olivia. And as always, you can find us on Twitter and Facebook @physicalkidspod. Bye!

DANI: Bye!

OLIVIA: Thanks guys! Bye.